Cameron tells Angela No Fourth Reich

Well, is history rhyming again?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16104275

9 December 2011 Last updated at 10:14 ET

David Cameron blocks EU-wide deal to tackle euro crisis

PM David Cameron has effectively vetoed an EU-wide treaty change to tackle the eurozone crisis, saying it was not in the UK’s interests.

Instead a new “accord” setting out tougher budget rules will be drawn up for the eurozone, which all EU states, except the UK, look set to join.

France’s Nicolas Sarkozy said the UK PM had made “unacceptable” demands.

One can’t help but notice that Vichy has voted to support the German position…

The Deal

The deal was another “EU Treaty” rewrite that would have ceded even more national sovereignty to a central Reichstag. The goal being to bring the financial world of the EU under ever more German Style controls. In and of itself, that German Discipline in the banks and national borrowing would be a good thing… But at what cost? Well, the cost of being under the German Boot…

Didn’t we see this play before? Yeah, the costumes were different. Yeah, they had different folks in the starring roles. Yeah, they had different set dressing, and even some of the episodes have had a bit of a ‘refresh’ rewrite… but the THEME and the major PLOT LINES have not changed.

Central control, one empire.

The “First Reich” (there isn’t really a 1st and 2nd, it came from Nazi propaganda, so PC Folks avoid using the terms. Being non-PC and seeing the shadow of the Fourth Reich as it starts to stand up, I think a bit of historical perspective on how these folks might be thinking is in order…), so the First Reich was the “Holy Roman Empire”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich

The term Reich was part of the German names for Germany for much of its history. Reich was used by itself in the common German variant of the Holy Roman Empire, (Heiliges Römisches Reich (HRR)). Der rîche was a title for the Emperor. However, Latin, not German, was the formal legal language of the medieval Empire (Imperium Romanum Sacrum), so English-speaking historians are more likely to use Latin imperium than German Reich as a term for this period of German history. The common contemporary Latin legal term used in documents of the Holy Roman Empire was for a long time regnum (“rule, domain, empire”, such as in Regnum Francorum for the Frankish Kingdom) before imperium was in fact adopted, the latter first attested in 1157, whereas the parallel use of regnum never fell out of use during the Middle Ages.

So what was the HRR?

Holy Roman Empire in 1600

Holy Roman Empire in 1600

Original Image

Notice anything? Yeah, looks like the Eurozone with France, the PIIGS, and the old non-USSR Warsaw Pact left out. And what did Germany want when it formed the Axis? Oh, yeah, alliance with Italy (and sort of Spain), domination of France, and absorption of the “Eastern Lands”. Oh, and the occasional adventure down into Greece… (England has stood aside from the Euro Zone, as have Sweden and Norway, along with the Swiss, so it’s not a perfect match to the EU, but you get the idea.)

What has the EU Parliament created? Think about it…

The Second Reich? That was the “unified Germany” of the “lesser reich” form. Little as there was that small problem of the Austrian Empire not wanting to share… though there was talk of a “greater reich” by unification of both…

German Reich post Holy Roman Empire

German Reich post Holy Roman Empire

Original and Full Sized images

Now if we glue on the Austria-Hungary Empire, we pick up a lot of the non-Reich lands:

Austria-Hugary Empire

Austria-Hugary Empire

This makes what was talked about as the “greater reich” by bringing in the Austrian Empire side of things.

At this stage, France, Italy, and Iberia are still outside these empires. But Hitler was working on changing that…

What does the Eurozone look like now?

Eurozone

Eurozone

Original Image (subject to change…)

OK, has Finland in, and Switzerland out. Has some dribs and drabs around the edges (those Balkan states) and the PIIGS are “in”…

But the core of it stays with those old European Empire cores…

What this looks like to me

We’ve got a New Reich, but one with the ‘leadership’ housed in Brussels where it doesn’t raise any eyebrows. We’ve got a take under with buying the countries at a discount to real worth rather than via military adventures (‘hostile takeover’ is a financial term of art…) and we’ve got a push to consolidate the gains into a non-elected Reichstag, but one that conveniently uses multiple languages so folks feel more at home…

The net result is the same. The Fourth Reich. Central power. German rules (at least on the financial side). Non-elected Reich members.

Only real difference I see is that France is “in on it” this time. It’s a ‘joint venture’ of sorts. Perhaps dreams of Napoleon Empire dancing in the collective memory:

Napoleon Empire

Napoleon Empire

Original Image from this set

Notice that through all of this, Britain stands apart…

What did Cameron do? Yup, Britain stands apart…

Where to from here?

That’s the $Trillion {Euro, Dollar, Pound} question…

There is a load of Happy Face being painted all over what WAS agreed (substantially more of the same in an incremental form), but it’s pretty clear that Dreams Of Empire continue to be pursued while some of the folks with their necks in the noose will be looking at Britain wondering why they demured to join…

From that BBC link:

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague denied the move would leave the UK isolated in Europe.

He said signing up to a change to the Lisbon Treaty – the treaty which governs the running of the EU – would have meant giving up more national sovereignty.

National budgets

Nearly 10 hours of overnight talks could not produce an agreement involving all member states, but the 17 eurozone countries and the other EU states apart from the UK – are expected to sign up to the new deal, which includes:

a commitment to “balanced budgets” for eurozone countries- defined as a structural deficit no greater than 0.5% of gross domestic product – to be written into national constitutions

automatic sanctions for any eurozone country whose deficit exceeds 3% of GDP

a requirement to submit their national budgets to the European Commission, which will have the power to request that they be revised

The UK has long resisted calls from other EU leaders for a Europe-wide tax on financial transactions – a so-called Tobin tax – which it argues would hit the City of London disproportionately.

So other than wanting the ability to control what a nation spends and to cream off a tax from every single financial transaction, nations would still be ‘free’ to do what they wanted with whatever they were allowed to spend… provided it didn’t violate any OTHER EU rulings…

Yeah, sure, call it ‘national sovereignty’ and they will never notice the difference…

In Conclusion

I have to laud the British for taking this course. Once again, Britain stands alone against empire builders. It’s been what? 3 or 4 times now? Or is it 5? I’ve lost count…

Maybe it’s time for Britain to spruce up the Commonwealth again. I could see a very effective Free Trade Zone made of Canada, India, Australia / New Zealand and Britain. Heck, maybe Ireland would even want back in. It’s got all the stuff the old British Empire had. Resources, manufacturing, and financial centers. It also manages to avoid those in Germany and France with dreams of empires…

Perhaps, at last, Britain will be forced into choosing between standing alone as a sovereign nation, or becoming just another district in the European Empire du jour… but not, I think, today…

Update – Adding Frankish Empire

While the “First Reich” described above was defined by the Nazi usage, it was pointed out there was a precursor empire… The Frankish Empire of Charlemagne, with almost the same range. A puckish person would point out that, despite France being named for them, the Franks were a Germanic people

Frankish Empire 481 to 814 AD

Frankish Empire 481 to 814 AD

Original and larger sized image

So we can see that this same impulse to Reich has been around for a very long time.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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33 Responses to Cameron tells Angela No Fourth Reich

  1. Libertarian says:

    EM, thanks, I agree with what you say. One tiny thing, maybe some people would think that the Erste Reich was the empire of Charlemagne, (Karl the Grosser). Just like your version but including large parts of France.

  2. pouncer says:

    Free trade zone or “Commonwealth”?

  3. R. de Haan says:

    David Cameron blocks EU-wide deal to tackle euro crisis

    “PM David Cameron has effectively vetoed an EU-wide treaty change to tackle the eurozone crisis, saying it was not in the UK’s interests.”

    No he did not.

    Cameron did a no show together with his so called opponents.
    They just played the public.

    Just read: http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/12/walter-mitty-territory.html

    And the other articles about the subject at Eureferendum.

    We have been CONNED

  4. R. de Haan says:

    “In Conclusion
    I have to laud the British for taking this course. Once again, Britain stands alone against empire builders. It’s been what? 3 or 4 times now? Or is it 5? I’ve lost count…

    Maybe it’s time for Britain to spruce up the Commonwealth again. I could see a very effective Free Trade Zone made of Canada, India, Australia / New Zealand and Britain. Heck, maybe Ireland would even want back in. It’s got all the stuff the old British Empire had. Resources, manufacturing, and financial centers. It also manages to avoid those in Germany and France with dreams of empires…

    Perhaps, at last, Britain will be forced into choosing between standing alone as a sovereign nation, or becoming just another district in the European Empire du jour… but not, I think, today…”

    Opening wrong, In conclusion wrong.

    The UK at this moment in time is the best kid in the class regarding climate change regulation an renewable energy.
    Just like Australia.

    The people are paying through their noses for energy use and they are robbed by the cities and councils.

    The UK has become an idiocracy run by… you guessed it, total idiots.

    Freedom is down the drain and so is democracy.

    Canada however won’t join Kyoto II and will concentrate on the drill baby drill concept.

    This will make canda the lead country for the next twenty years as the UK will go down the drain, together with the European continent.

    That’s the more realistic view of the future.

    Unless The Cimate change Act is repealed: Watch this two must see video’s
    http://rarereaders.seablogger.com/2011/12/the-climate-change-act-reconsidered/

  5. R. de Haan says:

    There is a lot of good news but it doesn’t come from the EU.

    Nor does it come from the US Administration

    The good news comes from Matt Ridley, from China where they just found a shit load of shale gas that will make them energy independent for the next 300 years, the news comes from the opportunity to make this shale gas that is available all over the continents key in powering our economies.

    The news that wind mills have become obsolete (they already were obsolete IMO) the news we no longer need a US policy to protect the energy interests
    of the West and we no longer risk a nuclear war over the last barrels of oil.

    The news that we don’t have to shackle our populations or fear the population bomb.

    We have for at least 2000 years fossil fuels available so nothing stands in the way to further promote Ridley’s concept “When idea’s have Sex” and the the world view he sketches in his book “The Rational Optimist”
    http://marcellus.psu.edu/resources/PDFs/shalegas_GWPF.pdf

    All we need to do is rid ourselves from the eco freaks at the UN the banksters, the globalists, the war mongers and all those who rather see us dead than alive and our lame ass politicians who betrayal us every day as you can read here:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/12/06/more-u-n-insanity-paid-for-by-u-s-taxpayers/

  6. We live in interesting times, . . . with intrigue in places of political power.

    Fortunately the Great Reality that surrounds and sustains life on Earth is benevolent and far beyond the control of politicians.

    That is the message of hope that friends will try to communicate to a world in despair this Holiday Season, as Earth’s seasonal climate changes accompany the turning of the calender pages of life from 2011 to 2012.

    http://judithcurry.com/2011/12/09/science-communication/#comment-148248

    With kind regards,
    Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo
    http://www.omatumr.com/

  7. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M: “Laud the British….” ? or is it just they can not afford deep and “real” austerity measures.
    Or perhaps they will try an imaginable solution, the same that would solve also Portugal´s economic troubles: To become a Brazilian state, though the other way round: perhaps reestablishing the reign of Peter the third, who ruled from Brazil (BTW, one of his descendants died in the Air France airplane crash in the atlantic); so the British islands could become the 52th US state!; the same could be done by Spain, etc,etc. :-)
    Anyway if the issue is a IV Reich and a bigger “Hinterland”, quite normal!
    not for nothing the “green movement” (Ecofascism) was born there:

    http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/germany/sp001630/peter.html#bib1

    http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/germany/sp001630/janet.html
    I can already see “Al Baby” receiving the Iron Cross :-)

  8. adolfogiurfa says:

    As you, economists (kind of black magicians) use to say: “Party is over kids!”

  9. adolfogiurfa says:

    @R. de Haan (01:44:53) :”…to get rid of…” Do you mean New Age liberals and all the commoners who unworthily ascended to ruling positions after the french and american revolutions and their unquenchable desire of “improving” our lives?

  10. E.M.Smith says:

    @Libertarian:

    I’ve added an update with the Frankish Empire map…

    @Adolfo:

    And when the party ends, there is sometimes a fight in the parking lot…

    Nice links, BTW…

    Oh, and England can not become a US state as we forbid kings and queens in our constitution. That’s why I left the US off of the list of New Commonwealth candidates… But I think they COULD become a Province of Canada… Someone would have to check the Canadian laws to be sure.

    @Pouncer:

    I don’t know enough about the old Commonwealth to know where to draw the line, so I’ve deliberately used both terms to fog my lack depth… so SHHH! Don’t tell anyone!! ;-)

    @Oliver K. Manuel:

    Nice comment in that link, and nice link too…

    Oh, and folks need to remember Neutron Repulsion ;-)

    @R. de Haan:

    The “talk” had been about a new treaty EU wide. Cameron “effectively” killed THAT treaty (even if not yet drafted) and sent folks off to thinking of a new treaty and / or one between fewer players. That matters…

    Yeah, it will end up in the salami factory of the EU process. Yeah, it will come back (as That Side never gives up, it just goes for smaller slices forced down the throat one at a time…)

    Um, I make a statement about Britain being unenthusiastic about joining a continental Empire (again) and standing alone on the next step into the noose. You call it wrong because they are in favor the the Global Warming Mantra? Looks like a non sequitur to me. They can be quite nutty about one thing (GW) and wishing to use it for their OWN dreams of avarice while being against another thing that constrains them to being bit players in someone else’s empire… So I’d have to award that “wrong” you so liberally spread around to you…

    (A thumbnail sketch might be: “UK want’s The Great Game to include it as an empire, not as a part of a Franco-German empire. But using the same AGW tools to herd folks.”)

    Your third comment I agree with entirely. I also agree that, in general, the UK is being lead down a foolish path by idiots… but I can still laud the occasional flicker of intelligence when I see it… and saying “No Tobin Tax and no EU control of the budget” is one of a very few smart things I’ve seen lately. Positive re-enforcement is a good thing, after all … If London and the EU have a Tobin Tax, the pressure to put on in the USA would be immense. I’m happy beyond belief to see the UK stop it. Maybe they can start getting off the AGW bandwagon with a bit more freezing winters too ;-)

    So want to place any bets on how soon the ECO-Nazis declare “fracking” an ecological threat and ban it? I’d predict “any day now” as it threatens the whole plan of “herd with fear into the energy scarcity pen”…

  11. R. de Haan says:

    @ E. M., We know when the UK signed the Lisbon treaty they lost much of the financial power of their City. The power was transfered to Frankfurt and City bank firms opened their new offices in Switzerland.
    In fact the flood of bankers was so big the Swiss authorities have created a waiting list because they are not able to absorb the numbers.

    In the background “The Boy” has been horse trading in order to regain powers of the City (which has been the biggest source of income for the UK)
    Just to safe face for his electorate and his political opponents.

    Besides that Merkel and Co needed the diversion because contrary to what was reported to the press, Sarkozy and Merkel did not have agreement on the future of the EU.

    The overall agenda is rather sinister.

    They want the EU economy to crash, take control when it’s in chaos and deliver powers to the UN, read, “The New Global Government”,

    But not before they have raided the pockets and pension funds of their citizens.

    This is not the “Brady Bunch” but a gang of hardened criminals led by Goldman Sachs.

    Just connect the dots to see the entire picture.

    Kicking the can into the future is their mantra and they will keep kicking it until the big collapse sets in.

    They are not interested in any solution let alone saving the Euro.

    The same is happening in the USA.

    After that it’s Global Governance and a brand new Global currency, war, mass starvation (famine in third world countries) and despair.

    All paid for with our won tax money.

    As for “The Boy”, he’s in full agreement with the gang.
    All birds of one feather.

    They just performed a no show (puppet theatre to fool the masses and the markets)

    That’s all.

  12. adolfogiurfa says:

    @R. de Haan (03:26:54)But it all began with Necker:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Necker
    The french revolution was to subvert the traditional order and get the power so a few, that “gang of hardened criminals”, as you properly call them, could collect the fruits of the labour of the many: As economy, they knew it from thousand of years of “practice” followed solar cycles, so, as they do not like working from pharaonic times, they preferred to manage the cyclical “crisis” and harvest, from time to time, the capital gains of gentiles´ healthy work
    In order to do that they had to end monarchies and/or local aristocracies using means, some of these were :”social/communist/democratic,etc. revolutions”, or, more recently “springtime movements”-as the one being tried in Russia now-
    One and very effective way it was “Land Reform”, to decapitate and disappear local landlords and replace them by more and amenable and finance dependent and not so clever commoners. In order to achieve that, they created some “Initiatory and Secret Orders” bundling up a bunch of people who otherwise not have had the brain or the capacity to ascend in the social ladder, giving them the believe they were “special” and above common people, thus easily trained to be their bribed butlers or, worse, their “useful fools” thinking they pursue to attain the “good for humanity and for the world” (like today`s well intentioned “greens”) which, without their help, even Gaia and its weather would irremediably change for the worse.
    Where is it the product of the peoples´labour?…Perhaps E.M. knows it: Is it in metallic gold or in land properties? (gold & food)
    These “kids” do not learn from experience, though they count on fleeing out far away from anything that could harm them, like the last time (to China?…is it not New York this time, but Shanghai?…guess chinese are not so fool as they think…and they have ugly ways of revenge).

  13. Ian W says:

    A more measured response from the front which you may find interesting

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euelw_v0Vnw

  14. Hamish McDougal says:

    While R de Haan has a point (as does EMS’ response), surely anything is better than:

    Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Euro.

    Coming to a continent near me.

  15. Verity Jones says:

    Best quote of the week after some (on the left?) complaining that Cameron’s actions left Brittain isolated – http://order-order.com/2011/12/09/63002/ – Terry Smith, CEO of City broking firm Tullets:

    “The UK is as isolated as somebody who refused to join the Titanic just before it sailed “

  16. R. de Haan says:

    The UK = Titanic just like the Eurozone.

    The people know it, only the political class don’t.

  17. R. de Haan says:

    Thanks for your views Adolfo, much appreciated.

  18. R. de Haan says:

    Rehypothecation infinite leverage and why breaking the tyranny of ignorance is the only solution
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/shadow-rehypothecation-infinte-leverage-and-why-breaking-tyrrany-ignorance-only-solution

  19. boballab says:

    EM:

    You might want to look at what the map of all the lands that was ruled by the Habsburg (alt spell: Hapsburg) Dynasty, then add in the lands of royal families they married into. I think it will fit better:

    The House of Habsburg (English pronunciation: /ˈhæps.bɝːɡ/, German pronunciation: [ˈhaːps.bʊʁk]), also found as Hapsburg, and also known as House of Austria is one of the most important royal houses of Europe and is best known for being an origin of all of the formally elected Holy Roman Emperors between 1438 and 1740, as well as rulers of the Austrian Empire and Spanish Empire and several other countries.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Habsburg

    Over the centuries the Hapsburg’s ruled not only the HRR, the Austrian and Hungarian Empires but also the Spanish Empire. The Spanish Empire included not only what is now Portugal but also land that forms what is now Belgium and the Netherlands (The Spanish Netherlands). It also controlled half of the land that now forms the country of Italy (The southern half including the island of Sicily).

    Country:
    Austria, Holy Roman Empire, Spain-Italy, Hungary-Croatia, Bohemia, England-Ireland (Jure uxoris), Portugal, Bosnia and Slovenia

    Titles:
    Emperor of the Romans
    Emperor of Austria
    King of Germany
    Emperor of Mexico
    King of Spain
    King of Aragon
    King of Sicily
    King of Naples
    King of Castile
    King of Hungary
    King of Bohemia
    King of Croatia
    King of England and Ireland
    King of Portugal
    King of Dalmatia
    King of Galicia and Lodomeria
    Archduke of Austria

    Founding: 12th century – Otto II, Count of Habsburg

    Besides all that they also married into the ruling family of France:

    Queens Consort of France

    From the sixteenth through the eighteenth centuries, the greatest non-Habsburg power in Europe was usually France. As a result, in usually futile attempts to either unite Europe under the Habsburg family or to prevent French enmity, Habsburg daughters were wed to successive kings of France.

    Matter of fact the mother of the “Sun King” of France, Louis XIV, was a Hapsburg (Anne of Austria) and ruled as his regent for many years.

  20. boballab says:

    Forgot to add this in:

    Besides the fact that Philip II of Spain co-ruled England and Ireland with Mary I, the monarchs of England just after the English Civil War were of Hapsburg descent. Charles the I of England married Henrietta Maria of France and she gave birth to Charles the II who regained the throne after the death of Cromwell. Henrietta Maria’s maternal grandmother was Johanna, Archduchess of Austria.

    Then you got the various Hapsburg Archduchess that married the rulers of the Polish Kingdom (including one Polish king that married two daughters of the HRE Ferdinand the I). That gave marriage ties to the House of Vasa through the catholic branch of the Vasa’s in Poland. The Vasa’s most famous member is Gustav II Adolf, King of Sweden and founder of the Swedish Empire.

    Add all those lands together on a map and you pretty much got a map of the Eurozone.

  21. Pascvaks says:

    @Oliver K. Manuel
    Well said! (But there sure are an awful lot of over educated, over paid, and over rated stupid fools on this poor old planet, I fear we’ve reached the saturation point, again;-)

    @adolfogiurfa
    Think of the UK as the Japan of the Atlantic, think of the EU as the New China Wannabe that’s been wanting-to-be for the past 1700 years;-)

    The “little” things all have a common direction. The same direction they have always had. The UN (New League of Nations) dream is one that will die as the old one did in the next few years. Dreams hold no sway over fanatics and madmen and there are many of them waiting in the wings. Jihad anyone? Nuke the Jews anyone? Russia? China? Barzil? India? Day-to-day International Politics is like Climate Change. It happens. And CO2 has a lot to do with where the heat is. It’s a little like a “marker”. While the planet seems to be starting to “cool” in one respect, the level of international political heat is stiring the winds of another world war.

  22. tckev says:

    Nice to see that someone in Europe sees passed the German/French Ponzi scheme that is the Euro.
    Well done Mr Cameron.

  23. Does Section 1031 of Senate Bill 1867 actually allow for the arrest and indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without right to a trial, a lawyer, any charges made against them, or any evidence presented or made for their arrest?

    http://www.infowars.com/levin-it-was-obama-who-required-indefinite-detainment-bill-include-u-s-citizens/

    That seems to be far-fetched, unless world leaders have “painted themselves into a corner.”

  24. E.M.Smith says:

    @Ian W:

    Nice video. Kind of sums it up clearly, IMHO.

    @R. de Haan:

    That zerohedge CDS posting is, er, um, ‘a worry’… $707 Trillion of derivatives? Sure, many of them are offsetting positions, but still… One small ‘on average wrong way’ move and stuff visits fan big time.

    @Verity:

    Love the quote ;-)

    @Boballab:

    Would be interesting to see how many EU Parliament members have a Hapsberg ancestor … Maybe they found a way for more of the ‘kids’ to participate in the empire…

    @Pascvaks:

    I’d hope we could avoid a war out of this, but that’s the direction the tides are drifting. Not very fast, but that way…

    @Oliver:

    I’ve not read it, but folks whom I trust (Rand Paul) have said it does.

    Oh, and it also makes pretty much every Mormon a “Terrorist”. If you have more than 7 days food, that’s an indicator of being a terrorist. SO if you buy groceries once a week, say on Saturday, better make sure the fridge and cupboards are bare on Friday Night…

    Possession of waterproof ammo is an indicator too. Anyone who ever bought or is a collector of surplus military ammo is now a terrorist. Or any hunting ammo intended for use in wet conditions too… Basically, the presence of a thin line of nail polish at the base of the bullet and around the primer makes you a terrorist.

    IIRC, there was a statement that some number of guns that makes you a terrorist. It isn’t very many.

    If you have a finger missing, that’s indicia as well. Lord help you if you are a military vet with a missing finger or two who only likes to shop for groceries every couple of weeks…

    While I’ve generally tried to avoid talk of the paranoid “headed for tyranny” sort, and generally put talk of such in the “maybe a screw loose” (or just cranky today) column: The simple fact is that the changes which have happened to the law in my lifetime are clearly adding support for that view.

    So Ron Paul has gone from sounding like a ‘screw loose fringe’ guy to being more or less an accurate describer of what is happening on the nightly news. He has not changed what he said, the reality just caught up with his vision…

    So what’s a good terrorist to do? (I have more than 7 days of food as I grew up in a Mormon town and absorbed the culture of preparedness. Not the full 1 year they are mandated to have, but a couple of months worth. Oh, and in some box somwhere I have a small number of Russian Makarov rounds of military ball ammo that have a lacquer weather seal. Still have all my fingers though, so maybe I can get off ;-) My country is choosing to define ME as a terrorist. I’m not changing (and in fact mostly just do things I learned as part of that Mormon community that have generally been held in high esteem), my country is changing around me…

    So, yes, I find myself trying to decide how to cope with a world where increasingly I’m a “terrorist” or a “criminal” per the ever expanding and more crazy laws being passed. Thus this posting:

    http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/12/07/hypothetical-crime-real-time/

    The “SHTF” plan had been to take the spouse and her EU passport over to Europe if things got bad… but that seems a little dated now ;-)

    Wonder if there are any nice places in Latin America that would give me a passport… and doesn’t mind if have more than one paycheck worth of food in the house and collect old war antiques…

    Btw, I think another video on that law with Rand Paul speaking was in the linked article above (hypothetical crimes) down in the comments.

  25. Ian W says:

    “”Wonder if there are any nice places in Latin America that would give me a passport… and doesn’t mind if have more than one paycheck worth of food in the house and collect old war antiques…””

    You could do worse than go to Chile – On the coast say at Valparaiso where they speak a lot of ‘English’ and Chilean Anglo-Gerrman-Spanish

  26. Pascvaks says:

    Old Caveman saying: “No go new Cave! Rats go!”

  27. TIM CLARK says:

    I guess I missed the part about missing a phalange. Why is that considered terrorism?
    (Typed with nine phalanges-don’t want a word to trigger an alert)

  28. E.M.Smith says:

    @Tim Clark:

    I suspect they think it might indicate a bomb making accident? Got me.

    Best I can figure is that they knew they could not say “Muslim male about 20-30 years old that associates with known terrorists and / or visits extremist Islamist web sites” so got a bunch of folks who have never lived outside of a Washington or New York highrise to list their personal stereotype fears.

    Given that “Guns and Food” fits about 90% of all Mormons, Farmers, and Alaskans (groups not known for their terrorist leanings) and “missing fingers” applies to factory workers and mechanics more than the guys who were flying airplanes into towers; I have trouble figuring out why any of it is listed….

  29. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Progressives of New York, Washington, San Francisco etc. are terrified of real Americans. Real Americans”cling to their guns,bibles and the Constitution”. Progressives want none of those things around to frighten them.The last time that the progressives in the Clinton administration were in control they almost started a real shooting civil war. Many of the same people are in control again. To them, real Americans are armed and dangerous! pg

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