One of the things you folks don’t see are the comments that get stopped in the SPAM queue or held in “moderation”. Most of these are the ‘typical’ things like “F-Bombs” or the various porn sites. Many are just link laden advertizing for all sorts of crap. WordPress has a pretty good SPAM filter, and manages to put almost all of those into the SPAM queue. I don’t know their method, but from the couple I’ve seen ‘make it through’, I think part of it is ‘the vote’. In the Moderation Queue I can just click “spam” and things get dumped into the spam queue. I suspect that a “count” is kept by person / IP and if enough folks vote you a spammer, well, you go to the spam queue. More on that below…
There is also a daily barrage of Cyrillic. For a while I tried to puzzle out what they were saying. But between my Russian class having been about 30 years ago, my not having done all that well in it anyway, and the Russian taught in “1A” not being the same as modern “web hustle and bump” Russian, well, I gave up. I can still read “PROTON” on the side of missiles or “Hello Friend”, but “hot xxx videos” is not in my lexicon… Then for a while I ran some through Google translate. After a few months I decided to just delete anything in the SPAM queue in Cyrillic… Lately a couple of other odd alphabets have started to show up too. I think the idea is that most folks will just let them through not knowing what they say, and thus a successful SPAM hits the public. I just delete them, too.
What does this have to do with you?
Well, I thought I’d put a small sample of some of this stuff here for you to admire. Also, there are several non-SPAM comments that are in a ‘problematic’ state. On the cusp between trash and “barely OK”. Not bad enough to just delete without thinking about it ( I’ve too much moral center for my own good some times…) yet not really contributing to the “ambiance” or moving understanding forward. Often just “carping”. Thus the title of this bit. Some are clearly just bear-baiting. A few may be trying to get me to make statements that could be used against me. Trying to get me to “talk dirt” so it can be mixed with water and they can then “fling poo”…
What to do with them?
So I’ve decided to put some of them here, with commentary.
A note or two on “moderation”. There are a variety of settings for the ‘moderation queue’. I’ve chosen to let “regulars” comments just flow through. Someone comments for a while and their stuff is “clean”, they get an open mic. Other folks go to the moderation queue and sit while I figure out what to do with them. Sometimes that can take a few days as I may be AFK for a long time. Last night was a party at a friend’s home. I’m Away From Keyboard for about 8 hours, all told. Then home and just enough time to prep for bed, but… I see this odd quake pattern. I can barely squeeze in a quick posting about it and still hope for 6 hours sleep. Is that really the time for me to spend 2 hours forming a decent response to someone’s “bait” taunts in the Moderation Queue? To pull someone back from the SPAM queue when they have had a load of other folks “finger” them (or they would not be in the SPAM queue)? Is that really the best use of my time? Or ought I to get an informational posting done, and catch some sleep? There is, after all, only one of me.
In an amusing sort of way, the folks most prone to “grumpy carping comments” are also most miffed when they don’t get immediate air time or immediate feedback on their carping. As the saying goes “not my problem”. They had a choice: Be polite and personable and get the fast queue vs. be a pain and take the slow lane. Some times they start out nice enough, but when things don’t go their way, they start the ramp up to the chute down…
No, I don’t know why folks are as they are. No, I don’t care any more. They just are. If they would read the “about” box they would know that my purpose here is to have a ‘party at a friends’ atmosphere. They would know that the guy getting loud by the punch bowl will likely be gently escorted out to the pool where he can talk to the neighbor’s kid… and if he gets belligerent about it, will find a nice taxi at the curb with his name on a sign. And when the neighbor’s kid shows up and wants to rant about the evils of, well, me: He will find himself by the pool talking with / ranting at the belligerent punch bowl guy… My thesis is simple: “Life is too short to drink bad wine.” If someone is “bad wine”, they don’t get much attention from me and certainly don’t get to dominate the punch bowl.
OK, enough preamble. On with the show. There will be examples of several kinds here and I hope they help to amuse as well as educate about the nature of running a blog.
Here is an example of Cyrillic Spam. I’m going to leave out some things, like links and addresses, so that the Spammer gets “no joy” in Mudville tonight.
20]Такая технология эффективна не только с точки зрения защиты изделий из металла и придания им эстетической привлекательности, но и с точки зрения экономии.
ПРОМЫШЛЕННЫЙ АЛЬПИНИЗМ И ВЫСОТНЫЕ РАБОТЫ НА ОБЪЕКТАХ И УРОВНЯ ОТВЕТСТВЕННОСТИ
Он пробовал учиться на печатника, жил у издателя Миллера, но душа не лежала к типографскому ремеслу.
Евреи служили в различных подразделениях сухопутных войск, в экипажах, обслуживающих военные самолеты, в военно-морских силах.
Однако каждый тип в отдельности гарантированно повышают комфорт и уют в доме.
В зависимости от состояния порядок работ может оличаться.
работа в спб [link removed]
OK, so what is that? Here’s the Google Translate:
20] This technique is effective not only in terms of protection of metal products and give them an aesthetic appeal, but also in terms of savings.
Industrial mountaineering and altitude WORK FOR INSTALLATIONS AND LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY
He tried to learn from the printer, lived in Miller’s publisher, but the soul does not lie to printing trade.
Jews served in various divisions of the Army, in carriages serving military aircraft in the Navy.
However, each type separately guaranteed to increase comfort and coziness in the house.
Depending on the order of operations can olichatsya.
work in St. Petersburg [link removed]
You get a lot of that. What is often text pulled from random postings (or the posting the comment is aimed at) that almost looks “real”, then a link or two with a tag line that is what the Spammer is pushing. In this case, a jobs site (that may or may not be a jobs site and may just be a porn site or who knows what).
After you translate a few dozen of these, it’s a whole lot quicker to just hit “DELETE”…
I like the idea of running a ‘multi-lingual’ show, and don’t mind at all including comments in other languages, so it pains me to just wholesale delete anything in Cyrillic. But at 100% crap over months, well, “that’s a pattern”.
There are a few dozen daily “gratuitous compliments” of a generic form. Often the “link” in the name / address field makes it clear that they are crap / spam. You get things like “Love that idea!” with the name of “Buy Shoelaces Online Cheap!!!” (cleaned up some from what is often there…).
I guess the idea is that folks can’t easily turn down a compliment?
At any rate, I now take any short ‘gratuitous compliment’ and just pitch it (unless it comes from ‘a regular’). For a long time I’d inspect the name, the site address, sometimes even the IP address. Often the use of language is a giveaway to a non-native speaker. Again, the pattern was overwhelming.
After study a number of of the blog posts in your website now, and I really like your approach of blogging. I bookmarked it to my bookmark website listing and might be checking back soon. Pls take a look at my web page as nicely and let me know what you think.
This had a name of “Liquid Diets” or some such and a link to a site pushing diet crap.
Sometimes you get the various approaches mixed, like this ‘gratuitous compliment’ in Cyrillic:
Ваш блог мне очень понравился, только допишите эту статью
which translates to: “Your blog I liked, just append this story”
The name gives it away: секс форум which even I can read as “sex forum”.
To the bit bucket…
The Problem Child
Then there are the folks who are just a mech… a droid … endlessly spitting out the same failed strategy. One is named “World Spinner”. It usually puts up 3 or 5 a day of “Here at World Spinner we are debating the same thing”, then takes a break for a day or two. With one line from my posting in it as camo. It doesn’t hide much. Bit bucket.
There are a couple of more like that, but W.S. are the worst.
FWIW, I suspect that simply having some of the spam as quoted material will cause a ‘jump’ in the quantity I get as their bots will detect it and think they were able to get some through, not being bright enough to realize it’s an “avoid” slam and not a success…
Slightly more interesting are the ones with a library of sayings that they spout, with the link to their site. So this is from a site selling ringtones. “If you don’t like something about yourself, change it. If you can’t change it, accept it.” The only ‘giveaway’ is that it’s completely off topic and has a link / name that are all full of the word “ringtones”.
There are a couple in this class pushing “party planning” that always start with a droid paragraph of garbage and down in the last 1/4 have their tag line and link. Trying to hide in the bafflegab.
Existing in the Capital has it’s advantages although comparable with all stuff, there appears to be naturally a draw back as well! Living in the heart of the act is essential, as soon as you have got to be in the circle. My chief, Armando, always mentions these things. In truth, he spends the better part of the daylight hours to imagine just about stuff like this.
[… crap elided and the link too]
Life needs us furthermore us all call for every now and then some crucial leisure, to have the option to sustain in the midst of this daily hassle!![… identifier elided]
After a while you get to where you ‘sight recognize’ the block without even reading a word of it. This text has not changed much in a month or two.
Why mention this stuff?
Because more than once while clicking along on “Delete Permanently” a dozen times in a row the finger has hit that button JUST as the eye recognized that this particular bit of posting was NOT spam, but a wayward bit of someone’s text who I recognized.
If, for whatever reason, your stuff ends up in the SPAM queue, there are non-trivial odds it will be auto deleted by The Twitchy Finger as I’m rolling through a couple of pages of the above type of dreck… so please forgive if not all wrongly tagged as SPAM comments get rescued. I think you can see that wading through the above stuff can be a bit mind numbing and you really want to just hit that “dump all” button at the bottom without even looking…
How can you tell if you hit the spam queue?
Postings that are approved show up in the comment list.
Postings that are sent to the “moderation queue” show “in moderation” above the comment and only you can see it.
Postings that hit the spam queue just silently evaporate. Gone. No feedback. Nothing. And I won’t even know about it until I bother to wade through the spam dreck, and that may be next week some time…
The Voted Off The Island
There are some folks whose ‘stuff’ always goes to the spam queue. All I can figure is that enough other WordPress Moderators have hit the SPAM button on them enough times that they have been voted off the island.
There is NOTHING I can do to change that.
If you end up in that condition, I’d suggest spending less time annoying folks with whom you do not agree.
An example? This guy:
Hmm. Commenters (and the author of the original post), among whom there is a distressing lack of mathematical and physical sophistication combined with an unbridled enthusiasm for showing it off, should read […]
His stuff goes to the spam queue. Now I’ve got a dilemma.
Do I over ride the WordPress function to fish out a comment that is insulting?
What does it add to the topic? How is it helpful? Heck, it isn’t even entertaining. So I leave him out by the pool talking to the neighbor’s kid…
Sidebar: That “distressing lack of mathematical”…”sophistication” is just SO wrong. I’d love to spend time ripping it, but then I’m just taking “bait” and things degenerate into that “four voices shouting” and folks, like me, hit the “jump” button on the remote. FWIW, I’ve received a math scholarship, gotten ‘straight As’ in math in high school where we went through the whole curriculum and in the “advanced math” class went on to calculus as we had a couple of months ‘left over’… In university I had statistics as well as calculus through integrals and partials. I love math and I’ve been known to do it just for recreation. One of my major complaints about AGW is the broken math behind it, but few folks want to talk about that… See:
Insults that have no value from someone “voted off the island” can only consume and waste my time, and “time is the fire in which we all burn”… So given a choice of making them happy by fishing them out and trying to clean it up to be presentable to polite society, or just hitting flush… decisions decisions… FLUSH…. Next?!
FWIW, the same poster had this one too:
“At Stanford, every physics lecture begins with a five to 15 minute presentation by a “Green” indoctrinator.” Really? Please present evidence of this implausible claim. I don’t think it would be credible even if you meant “lecture series” as in course, but every lecture? If you provide evidence, I will apologize for my skepticism regarding this claim, but a physicist saying something regarding climate physics or taking some other position with which you don’t agree will not suffice.
So someone makes a slightly hyperbolic remark, and this guy wants to make it a legal fight… Sorry, too many voices shouting at once is a “jump” trigger, so I don’t see where this adds much. Interestingly, he goes on to manage to even get my name wrong. Heck, it’s only an Initial. You’d think one little letter would not be that hard, and it’s kind of plastered all over the place, but no…
I assume that one of the two other folks who, in your estimation, posted with rudeness and insult since my comment isn’t here. I actually made a claim.
Finally, if using “radiative forcing function” will put this red herring regarding terminology to bed, I’m quite willing to use it.
In answer: Yes, rudeness. Calling people stupid is rude.
I also note that calling a clear statement that the language is being used badly a ‘red herring’ is also none too polite. You can go find somewhere else to start a fight. Though I do find it promising that there is evidence that learning can happen. That “forcing function” is different from “forcing” even inside the arcane world of math jargon and maybe it would be a good thing to use ‘forcing function’ when you mean ‘forcing function’. Otherwise we’re off in the land of Humpty Dumpty where things only mean what YOU choose them to mean… and that doesn’t work very well.
So, do I take the time to fight these petty little battles with folks who want to ‘fling poo’? Or just leave them be and let them wash out with the tide as the spam queue is drained? Decisions decisions… And, especially when I’m fighting network issues and looking to move forward the horizons of understanding, well, “servicing the carping comments in the spam queue” is very very low on the priority list.
In a similar tone was this comment:
Have any of you taken an undergrad differential equations course?
Why, yes. Two of them. Both the non-engineering and the engineering versions (after I changed major and found that the first was not acceptable for an engineering degree). Then went on to partials and integrals and… But starting with a gratuitous insult does not gain one favor… Oddly, WordPress seems to have some sense of taste as this was off to the spam queue too…
“Forcing” has a very clear and precise mathematical meaning.
Yes, it does, but it is not the same as what “Forcing FUNCTION” means. You have confounded two very different meanings… If you are going to claim “moral superiority” and superior mathematical precision, at least get your jargon right.
For a completely general differential equation such as
f(u,t) = A(t)
A(t) , the part of the equation independent of u, is called the forcing.
Specifically, climatologists mean that u is the Charney climate system (atmosphere, ocean and sea ice), t is time, f is the system of equations that describes how the system evolves given the present state of the system, and A is inputs to the system from outside the system (solar variation, vulcanism, land use, greenhouse gases, dust, continental drift, stray comets, whatever).
Hope this helps.
This “explanation” also leaves out that the FUNCTION is a GIVEN (which in the real world is not given) and that it must be entirely dependent on the variable of TIME only. Not solar. Not vulcanism. Not land use. Not dust. and certainly NOT “whatever”.
So again I’m looking at this thinking: Snarky carping comment that’s got it 1/2 wrong. Fish it out and let the food fight begin or do something more important that actually matters? Sometimes I think about this for a ‘long time’ and things get some age in the queue. Often, at that point, the carpers can really carp. Oh Well.
The Hard To Teach
Then there are the most problematic of all. The folks who are usually reasonably polite. Often have a decent idea or two. Even take some guidance reasonably well. But can’t let go of a bone even when it’s long past ‘ripe’.
For example, there had been some exchanges with Peter Offenhartz where I’d pretty much laid out all the detail behind the notion that convection dominates (including a load of links to things like peer reviewed published papers showing heat flow in the same day and showing convective instability all through the sea and atmosphere on a daily time scale; and including simple human visible examples, like clouds and sail planes.)
And he wants to keep worrying that bone…
Dear me, you seem to willfully misunderstand my statements.
Here’s a clue Peter: It’s a bad idea to accuse your host of being a willful liar. You are likely to find yourself standing by the pool talking to a 12 year old kid about the merits of G4 and caffeinated alcohol slammers.
(a) The atmosphere is well-mixed because of convection, not despite it. Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of well-mixed.
Then he follows up with an accusation of being a bit slow to comprehend. Never mind that the very existence of convective cells show things are mixing and not mixed. No, better to ignore that and flog the dead horse some more… Look at any thunderstorm. Cloud. Hail. Rain. Right next to it sun, dry. Well mixed? Not a chance.
We then get a mini-lecture on his view of things. Turf well turned already. So, let this through to continue to fester into a food fight, or not? Let it through without any counter or comment? Hoping others will do the work (that I’ve already done a couple of times) or sink yet more time into this black hole? Hard choice. Easy one is just let it sit and go do what really has benefit for a while and “come back later”. Oh, I also note that “well mixed ocean” has now mutated into “DEEP” ocean…
It means, specifically, that all components, especially water vapor, have the same concentration in the column, and that the temperature profile follows the adiabatic lapse rate, which insures the heat capacity of the entire column is effective in moderating the surface temperature. (b) The top 50-100 m of the DEEP ocean is well-mixed. I surely didn’t say the deep ocean is only 50-100 m deep. I really am not that stupid or ignorant.
I have a challenge for you. Freeman Dyson has said that the effects of rising carbon dioxide will warm the night more than the day, and warm the winters more than the summers. In other words, low temperatures will rise a bit but high temperatures will rise less. Does your data analysis confirm this? Note that checking out Dyson’s assertion does not require accurate or consistent thermometers, which is why I thought you might find this a worthwhile investigation.
We then get a request that I run off and do a load of lab work and sink a few days into finding out what Freeman Dyson actually said and doing a proof or rebuttal. Gee, that’s going to get all my other tasks done…
FWIW, I’d expect that the 4th power radiative function would cause hot things to dump heat faster, so cold things would “warm” more and hot things would not. Furthermore, heat rises, so hot air rapidly heads up and dumps it’s heat at altitude. In fact, that’s what we saw in the study of daily heating cycles. Sun rises. Land gets hot, air gets hot, heat rises, dumps at altitude. ALL in the graphs in the cited paper that was clearly ignored. Night comes, it all cools down again as that 4th power bites the other way and as convection halts. Over and done in 24 hours or less. No “heat in the pipeline”. Solar in, heat out. CO2 is just not relevant as it is convection that moves all that surface heat to altitude (as shown in the graphs and analysis in the ignored paper).
At MOST, CO2 can increase the effectiveness of the radiative transfer to space at the top of the convective layer. My best guess is that it does effectively nothing as water and convection completely swamp it and solar variations drive the variations in the atmosphere.
But I’d already said that. A couple of times.
Do I keep shouting it at everyone else in the hope that this time Peter will read, will look at links, will learn?
Do I let him just dump his load and leave it there for all to see?
So some “stuff” came up and while trying to decide which way to take this (in the small time allowed for such ‘problem child’ cases) we get the carping escalation set in:
Am I correct in assuming that rather than answering my last post you have deleted it entirely?
I just want to know what you think your role as ‘moderator’ encompasses.
And I think I may have learned something important about the nature of your character.
This has been educational! Thank you!
We get the feigned politeness of a “Sir” and the sarcastic “Thank you” after a character slur.
BTW, things in the moderation queue show as “in moderation” so he could easily SEE it was just sitting a long time “in moderation” and not deleted… but has not eyes to see.
OK, now if I was having a moral dilemma a while ago, it’s just gotten somewhat easier.
First off, AN ANSWER IS EXPECTED… Peter, some friendly advice. “Expecting” at folks will only cause you grief. Folks are who they are and do what they do. Your expectations tell more about you than about them. The reality is that I was busy with a load of things that were just more, how to put this delicately, more… more important than you and your expectations. I’d not deleted anything, just not had time to pampers you. (No, that is NOT a typo.) Everything I really had to say had been said. Go back and read it. Understand it. Would you really be happier if I’d said that? Does it advance the discussion for everyone else to say that? Does it improve the ambiance of the “party” to have that kind of confrontational tone? Does your attitude lead me to think maybe I ought to just ‘give up’ on you and not bother posting a load of links and explanation? Especially when you seem uninterested in seeing what it says and more interested in a food fight? Out to the pool for the food fight, there is a 12 year old neighbor kid who I’m sure would enjoy it…
Next we get a “challenge to authority”. Just what and who do I think I am? OK, here it is:
I’m the guy who owns this site. I run it for my own amusement and edification and for the entertainment of friends. The intent (as documented under the ABOUT tab up top that you clearly haven’t read either – or perhaps read and ignored) is to have a ‘lawn party’ atmosphere. A polite place where folks can share and enjoy. Not a food fight. Not a fling poo insult match. And not a place where I take your orders to do whatever work you think I ought to do to counter your attacks. I don’t care if folks do not agree with me, I’m sure I’ve got several bits all wrong and would welcome insights. For example, I’m still horridly unable to connect the dots from Solar UV variation through to AO and AMO variation. There’s just too much going on. Stratosphere and Mesosphere moving temps in different directions (and often not in the direction or degree that models predict) with chemistry going on as well along with, as Vukcevik has pointed out, electromagnetic charged particle interactions). So I’m FINE with someone saying “Hey, I think you missed this bit”. But I’ve also got a pretty good “people reader” and I’ve had my fair share of folks looking to start a fight, or make someone look stupid, or generally just being ‘ill mannered’. So when I detect that, you go to the ‘slow line’ and eventually to the ‘spam queue’. My job as moderator is, in essence, to keep the place pleasant. To make sure the punch bowl is sweet and the wine is good. A guiding light is “Life is too short to drink bad wine.” and that means: You don’t want to be sour grapes… as sour grapes get tossed.
And finally, we get the gratuitous implied insult to my “character”. Well, it’s actually simpler than that. My network was sporadically dying at the same time I was up to my ears in holiday duties. “Character” had nothing to do with it. But Peter is prone to running off cliffs of conclusion and not looking where he’s running and jumping up and down excitedly a lot when he doesn’t get his way. The idea that maybe, just maybe, he was not very important and last on the ‘work queue’ and there were a lot of more important things ahead of him and, well, that maybe it wasn’t all about him and not even about me but simple time management… well, that never crossed his mind… (A lot of things seem to not cross his mind…)
But now I’ve got some Snark and insult (with a ham handed attempt at a disguise over it) added to the “failure to progress” and that ‘SPAM” button is just sooo easy to click… what to do what to do….
Frankly, that I’ve bothered to take the time to even think about it is well beyond what most sites do. At any rate, now you get a little window into what happens behind the scenes with “problem child” postings. As there is only one of me, if I just let them plop on the floor and lay there, the place would end up pretty stinky pretty quick, so that isn’t an option. Early on I had a more ‘open door’ policy and when I hit TV, had a load of folks assigned (near as I could tell, though they might have self volunteered) to come ‘talk dirt’ at me and make attack postings. Double and triple teaming. (I did some contact tracing and some other forensics and there was some reasonable evidence of coordination. One or two were randoms, but some were not. There was a clear “on” and “off” activity switch on certain events.) The end result was that I had to turn on ‘moderation’ and decide some folks just don’t need to get the microphone. Didn’t want to, but got forced into it. To not do it would have meant that the place was dominated by insult artists and snark. (At least one Australian site I love took a ‘walk about’ as, IMHO, a result of the crude and nasty snark that resulted from an ‘open mic’ policy. A lovely polite lady who did not need that grief.)
So, folks who don’t clean up their act can go somewhere else to carp. I don’t need stinky rotting fish here.
But some folks just won’t give up.
So on the posting about Blitzer and Giffords, Peter is back trying to turn the discussion away from why Blitzer is a turkey and why things ought to be focused on that fine lady Giffords and her family, and away from why it’s really stupid to be slamming Sarah Palin about any of it…. over towards gun control.
Yup, he wants to start a gun control ‘food fight’. Sorry Peter, that attitude gets you a quick trip to the SPAM queue as it is just being a Troll. This is a Troll Free Zone. Why? because I want it that way.
I see that you say you are not “radical right wing”, and surely not a nut. They why, oh why, is there not a single critique of those (mostly republicans) nuts who deem a Glock 9mm an acceptable weapon for civilians?
Peter seems to not know that Ms. Giffords, a Democrat Civilian, owns a Glock for self defense….
So do I taint the page about Ms. Giffords and my wishing her well with starting a gun control food fight featuring her choice of weapons? Do I just let it ‘pass’ and deal with the inevitable food fight that will break out from such trolling? Do I sweep it to the SPAM queue and just hit “FLUSH”… My that SPAM button is an easy choice…
But since I’ve brought it up here, I’ll answer the question:
I’d love to have a Glock, in .40 S&W preferably. I’ve shot one a couple of times. Reliable. Accurate. A superb self defense weapon ideal for those folks not very familiar with handguns. It has a rather unique and highly effective “safety” mechanism that is ideal for folks who don’t shoot regularly. There is a little ‘extra trigger’ on the trigger. No finger on the trigger, no bang. It’s that simple. You don’t have to learn about double action safety being down while single action safety is up or any of the other dozen and one bits of arcania. Just point, finger in guard on trigger, pull. And THAT is why so many Police Departments use if for police “self defense”. Training time is much reduced. safety is increased. It also makes a fine gun for various range competition shooting events.
Why don’t I have one? Simple. It has no “soul”. It’s just a bullet dispensing appliance. Shooting Tupperware. It works just fine, but it does not ‘speak to me’. I like the .45 ACP Colt 1911A better and I like the “race guns” based on the CZ 75 for smaller caliber. Honorable mention to the Beretta line. They have a grace and artistry that is missing in the square plastic tupper-shooter. Oh, and the SIG is just wonderful too, but way too pricey for my modest means.
BTW, a VERY large number of private CIVILIAN ‘rent a cop’ security agencies also use the Glock for the same reasons of low maintenance, easy training, and higher safety.
This gun is not designed for hunting,
News Flash kiddo: The 2nd Amendment is NOT about hunting nor about shooting Bambi. It’s entirely about the CIVILIANS being armed to prevent the GOVERNMENT from thinking it can ignore the rest of the constitution.
You may not like that, but that is the history and the meaning. Until not that long ago, folks owned private CANNON and explosives. When I was a kid you could buy dynamite at the hardware store (and farmers around me did so. It launches stumps out of the ground “right good” ;-)
That you bring hunting into it indicates some significant ignorance about both guns and the constitution.
That tells me that letting that can of worms be opened will result in a very non-polite and decidedly not pleasant food fight.
So, to let that kind of posting through? In the context of the already established “failure to advance” and snark?
nor is it designed for self defense.
Flat out wrong. It was designed specifically for self defense. A handgun is used in the military specifically as a last ditch self defense weapon. Anything more than 20 yards away is much better dealt with via a rifle or something bigger. They are typically issued to officers and folks who do work that requires them to not have a rifle to hand exactly for self defense. The Police use them first for self defense, then for defense of others. The dictum is to “shoot as a last resort and only to stop the attack”. That, sirrah, is “defense”.
It is designed, quite simply, for killing as many people as possible in as short a time as possible:
Clearly has no experience AT ALL in combat or self defense. A “Cop Friend” (my Sensei) had a story about one of his more experienced officers who had made a traffic “stop”. Perp got out of the car and drew a gun.
This trained and experienced officer emptied his gun and never hit the guy. Post event study showed one round “in the ground” next to his boot. He’d started pulling the trigger as he was pulling the gun from the holster… The next was a foot or two out in front of his foot. Next was in the ground near the bumper of the car. Next was in the trunk of the car. That’s 4 rounds and he’s not even near the target…
That is the way a gun fight typically goes. Folks get excited. VERY excited. The idea that “high capacity” is for military only ignores the fact that most folks can’t hit the broad side of a barn and get worse with adrenalin.
BTW, they caught the perp too. His gun was empty too….
Now, of particular interest in the case of the NutJob who shot Giffords is that he DID aim well. No adrenalin jitters. No excitement. Just calm methodical one after the other. You can see a wonderful example of that in a gun fight in the end scene of “The Unforgiven”. Inexperienced folks shooting and not hitting. Clint Eastwood as the old hand gun slinger taking careful aimed shots. That is how you survive a gun fight. BTW, most police carry a “high capacity” gun (15 – 19 rounds if possible) and at lease TWO extra magazines. That’s 45 rounds minium. They then have at least one ‘backup gun’. Some cops I’ve known carry 2 main guns, 2 backups, and 2 magazines for each. “Self defense” is not just ‘5 rounds in a single action revolver’…
But, back at Sir NutJob: He was very inexperienced. Yet did the slow aimed fire routine. That says he was emotionally ‘disengaged’. I.e. he is deranged.
Does any of that discussion add to the topic of the Giffords discussion? Nope.
Does any of that discussion enlighten about the loony left and Blitzer with their attack dog attitude toward Palin? Nope. ( I suspect that with “Blame it on Bush” dying as Bush is retired, they are trying to find a new person to blame / vilify. Watch as they rotate through ‘targets’ trying to find one that works).
Is there a risk that such frank discussion of my attitude toward guns could offend and alienate some folks? Oh yes. Could it be that there is a desire to bait me into such behaviours to get dirt for a ‘fling poo’ usage later? Possibly. My, but that SPAM button is looking mighty nice. One little “click” and the who bag of slime and worms is gone and we can go back to our nice, polite, quiet little discussion / lawn party….
a military weapon, surely, but not a civilian weapon, at least not outside the realm of a “well ordered militia”. But, from you, not a word. Shame on you, Sir, shame.
Now we get even more insults. I’m directed to be ‘shamed’. Yeah, that’s the way to get invited back in to the punch bowl and away from the kid by the pool. Tell the host to be ashamed. That’s just the ticket….
Other than the complete stupidity of such a behaviour, one also has to note that the comment is quite wrong technically. Yes, the Glock is used by the Military. But: there simply is NO difference between military and civilian guns. The distinction is purely a fiction and purely in the minds of the gun restriction nuts. It’s the “ugly gun” syndrome. I’ve lived under it in California for a long time. You could get exactly the same gun with a ‘pretty wooden’ stock but it was banned with an ‘ugly plastic stock’.
Substantially EVERY ‘hunting gun’ from the beginning through W.W.II started life in the military. From Mausers to M16 and from Springfields to Sniper rifles. (In fact, for many years, the best bolt action hunting rifles were prized for sniper use, and had roots in prior military sniper rifles. Only lately have dedicated sniper rifles been designed. And they would be ideal for things like Elephant hunting).
The comment also again misses the mark by failing to realize that civilian guns are NOT about murdering Bambi. (I’ve been hunting. I’ve shot things. I’ll never do it again. One of the saddest moments of my life was looking a beautiful dead deer. Another was looking at a beautiful dead rabbit. The world is a better place when they are alive… I understand the folks who do like to hunt, and I understand folks who need the meat for food. I accept them. I just don’t have to be one of them. FWIW, I’d have been able to shoot the NutJob wacko with no qualms at all. A careful aimed shot with no emotional baggage afterwards. He was evil. I can not shoot an innocent animal. I’ll eat grass first.) The civilian right to bear arms is specifically about defensive weapons and specifically about the ability to field a militia for combat. (And militia does not mean ‘national guard’ as it didn’t exist when the constitution was written.)
So my take on the Glock? A fine personal defense weapon, well suited to private use, to military and police use, and especially friendly to folks with a low training level. Highly reliable and effective. Just not very ‘sexy’. I’d love to have one (or two or three ;-) but keep finding other things I’d rather spend the money on (like that last Mercedes I bought 8-} or a trip to Florida…) I’d highly recommend it to anyone who wants to learn to shoot and use a handgun. Great for target competition and I had a great grouping doing paper targets at 15 yards with one in .40 S&W. Good for various sport and competition uses. And no, not a shred of “shame” at all.
I note in passing the attempt to ‘bait’ into a second amendment debate over what was meant by a ‘well ordered’ militia. Sorry, not going there. It’s a preamble, not a restriction on the right. Also those rights not enumerated are reserved to the people. So in all cases, it’s a pointless waste of breath.
OK, now I’ve got someone clearly angling to bait me into a 2nd amendment debate / food fight. Using taunts to do it. Well, what to do, what to do. At that point, I hit the SPAM button.
And yes, I know that Gabrielle Giffords has been an advocate of minimal gun control. I guess that is the acceptable position for a politician from Arizona. But that doesn’t excuse her or the rest of the pols from voting for the same absurd (NRA directed) position. Self defense, I can understand; hunting, I can understand. But what social value does possession of a glock semi-automatic have?
And here we can see the shortage of “clue” for its final pass. Still not grasping that a Glock semi-automatic is an absolutely stellar self defense weapon. Completely out of touch with the technology and how to use it. Also foggy on the idea that the NRA is a collection of citizens who act to preserve their rights and not some corporation out running around on its own.
As a final comment on that comment: What social value does possession of a Chevy have? What social value does possession of a private home have? What social value does eating meat have? What social value does being a football fan have? To quote my other Sensei: MU! (whack!) Roughly translated as “the question is ill formed”. There are a large number of practical things we do that have no “social value”. The very concept is a broken one. What social value has a newborn baby puking and pooing on you? What social value does even Einstein’s work have? He did enable the nuclear bomb…. Practical things often have ‘no social value’. Take my mud boots, for example… please, they need washing… :-)
So; to engage that kind of significantly broken reasoning? To give it air time? To put my time into it instead of into something like another airport tarmac vs grass study or a better study of change of freezing level over the decades? Which has the higher value? IMHO, the “food fight” has nearly none. A better handle on Freeze Level over a 60 year cycle has a great deal…
So Why This Posting?
If it’s in the SPAM queue, why dig it out for this? Well, it was time to dump the SPAM, and I got to see it ‘ensemble’. Got the idea that it gave an insight to what it’s like running a blog. How folks are quite happy to walk into your party off the street and want to start food fights, insult the host, and do a variety of things they would never consider in ‘real life’. Seemed like it might have some interesting properties as a posting. Soo….
I’ve gone ahead and put the comments here, along with my ‘take’ on them, for two reasons.
1) So folks could see what goes on “behind the scenes”. You can ponder it. Provide feedback on if you would rather have seen, or not seen, that kind of thing. Realize what it means about ‘managing a blog’. See the kind of baiting and games in which some folks indulge. Decide if you like things as they are or want more of that stuff. Appreciate the ambiguity of the context and the fine line that has to be taken to separate ‘reasonable’ from ‘unreasonable’ at times and how sometimes it’s just a matter of doing what makes you feel best.
2) So that the folks ending up in the SPAM queue can see EXACTLY what gets them there and exactly what my answers would be to their enquiries; while at the same time not polluting otherwise polite threads with a lot of off topic and irrelevant dreck / food fights. (And no, there will not be an open thread food fight here, either. This was for ‘display purposes only’ and not an invitation to said folks to re-engage on those topics.)