Open Thread Thursday

A lot like open talk Tuesday, only more ‘thready’ ;-)

I’m now sans wisdom teeth. It’s been about 3 hours since the local anesthetic wore off (along with the diaszepam) and I’m now “into it” two vicodin. The discomfort is at an “OK level” and while I’m feeling pretty alert, I’m also aware that I’m “cycling” a bit between more and less alert as various pills dissolve and wear off… Not an ideal state for in depth contemplation of intricate technical issues…

So, with that, it’s time for y’all to carry the interest load for a while. How long? I’ll let you know tomorrow…

Not sure if I’m going to sleep tonight, so you may see comments from me, but don’t expect a lot.

In general, things went very well, FWIW.

Some suggestions?

Well, there is the Stuporcommittee haggling over $1 Trillion of ‘cuts’ that they define as reductions in the projected increases of spending and adding taxes too. All while we simply do not have the money to do anything other than make about $2 Trillion of cuts FROM THE ACTUAL EXPENDITURES LAST YEAR, and the economy will not support any added taxes (besides, as we saw earlier, it doesn’t matter much what they set the tax RATE to be, the Feds only collect at most 18%. Not a hypothetical, actual history. Folks change their behaviour and the “take” tops at 18%…)

We’ve got a heck of storm making the west to midwest cold and very snowy. I’d thought of putting up a posting about the 20 or so ski resorts already open, but not going to happen. Ski or snow oriented people could look up their favorite resorts and post the opening date… Vale and Sun Valley are, IIRC, open, along with a couple in N.Hampshire and Vermont. Squaw and Heavenly are reported to be opening “soon”. Thanksgiving is often a pivotal day in ski land. Openings in cold years are before Thanksgiving. Warm or dry years, well after. If resorts are opening prior to Thanksgiving, then we’ve got the precipitation and it’s COLD. No B.S. can change that simple fact.

We’ve got some odd quake rumblings happening, mostly away from slip faults and near places with prior volcanic activity. I think that’s likey tied to tides in the magma (probably via an 1800 year lunar cycle). Would be interesting to now if anyone has a correlation done

Oh, and then there is the Republican Implosion Of The Week. Can’t we just draft Gov. Christie and be done?

And, of course, we have the ongoing Euro Implosion where Germany has said Greeks need to be more German while the Italian bond rate has spiked “way high” as investors have figured: They will not be Germans. They are likely to default. The eventual reduced payment, after the “haircut”, will likely be paid in New Lira.

This has lead to markets having a swoon as the news traveled around the world. Oh, and the EFSF said maybe they won’t be buying so many bonds after all (perhaps as THEIR bond rate jumped a percent and a half or so in one day on the news that they might be buying more PIIGS bonds…) Investors are catching on to the “Junk By Proxy” bond relabel game…

Oh, and oil in the USA is headed for over $100 /bbl causing some folks to ask “How can folks who have no money and no job, with higher taxes coming, and government that is tuning their fiddles; how can they possibly buy MORE stuff? So China has taken a bit of dive on the idea that they might not be able to sell more stuff after all. Even if Obama was not trying to insult them with putting a token 250 troops in Australia (as though that would do anything at all if China showed up on the shore with 1/2 Million Soldiers…)

With that, here is an Excellent Video posted by Scarlet Pumpernickel:

OK, time for me to to do some more ‘self care’… Over to you…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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85 Responses to Open Thread Thursday

  1. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh Dear, I may not get much sleep tonight… Following those Nigil Farage links is just so much fun…

    Caution on this one, the ‘translation’ has the f-word in it..

    Oh, and I found the one where he calls the guy (Rompuy?) the ‘quiet assassin of democracy’:

    Notice how they eventually cut his mic off at the end. Nothing like a little display of undemocratic power silencing those who would speak truth to it…

  2. Sera says:

    Just to continue on the theme…

    Cartoons — ‘Sarkozi’s head to roll next – probably’

  3. Libertarian says:

    Decades ago i worked for a German boss, he said then “Twice we tried to take Europe by force. It didnt work. Now we know we can just buy it” — not a bad forecast made a long time ago.

  4. PhilJourdan says:

    #1 – Wisdom teeth. I would like to say “I know how you feel”, but apparently I was born without them. So I have never had them or had them pulled. I guess I never got wisdom either.
    #2 – Cold – YES. A lot earlier this year. It was December 1 last year before we had our first frost. We got that Holloweeen this year. And yesterday was the second time we got snow. just a few flakes mixed in with the rain (and I am not talking about the local Occupy group). Which all means we are in for one hell of a bad winter – or a very mild one. So I predict. ;)
    #3 – Republicans. Well, considering the antics in the house, and their behavior on the Stupor Committee (love that term), I doubt a one is worth electing. Except the alternative is worse.
    #4 – Implosions – Not really. Just dirty (very dirty) tricks. And Axelrod’s finger prints are all over the knives. But they are shooting their wad too early. I know they are trying to sow confusion, and are succeeding to a point. But they are making sure there will be nothing for an october surprise. I do not believe the woman of Cain (too convenient, and too Chicagoy), nor the slurs against Perry, the misogyny against Bachmann, etc. Now the latest is Gingrich’s divorce is being dug up again, and even his daughter has called it a lie. She would not defend him against her mother if it were true. What is true is the Democrats want to run against Romney. I suspect they are thinking 2 things. One is that Romney care eliminates Obamacare as an issue. And the other is that he is most like McCain and so can be beaten easily. I agree with them on #1, but think they fail to see the real reason Obama was elected in 08, so #2 is false.

  5. George says:

    Hmm, this seems interesting. Apparently Brazil is getting a bit “concerned” with how much of its industrial production China owns. It seems to be feeling that maybe it has too many eggs in one basket, maybe.

    http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/11/17/chinas-global-nightmare/

  6. George says:

    Anyone know what the Obama campaign connections are with Beacon Energy?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/31/us-beaconpower-bankruptcy-idUSTRE79T39320111031

    They are another Solyndra that just filed bankruptcy after collecting loan guarantees from the DoE. Most of those went to F.O.B. (Friends of Barry).

  7. Another Ian says:

    George,

    Try this one

    “So, as a society, what are we doing about our Broken Windows? Let’s see:

    In 2010, BrightSource was in deep trouble. It was $1.8 billion in debt and was losing money hand over fist–a $71.6 million loss on a mere $13.5 million in revenue. A company destined to go down the drain, one would think. But no! The Obama administration bailed out BrightSource to the tune of a cool $1.4 billion in loan guarantees.”

    More at http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/17604

  8. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    MF will cause problems, it’s not over yet

    But the fall could come from China, with it’s fake cities leveraged on Copper

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-reasons-chinas-imminent-bust

  9. boballab says:

    Warnings from a Econ student at the University of Milan of what not to do.

  10. Axiom:
    a.) Science is the Foundation of Real Political Power;
    b.) Political Power is the Foundation of False Science

    AGW critics will generally accept this axiom.
    AGW proponents generally cannot accept it.

    But WWII was decided by ability of one side to grasp and utilize the enormous power of nuclear energy before the other: A-bomb research was underway in many countries. A nuclear blast vaporized Hiroshima on July 6, 1945.

    [The Japanese scientist, Kazuo Kuroda, who would become my research advisor in 1960 was sent to Hiroshima to find out the nature of that bomb.]

    Winners and losers of the AGW debate will also be decided by ability to grasp the power of the Sun and the way it controls Earth’s climate and sustains life:

    By coincidence the US military brought that same scientist to the USA after WWII and gave him the Christian name “Paul” on the ship over. Professors Paul Kazuo Kuroda and William A. Myers used the same techniques to determine that a powerful nuclear blast here five billion years (5 Gyr) ago:

    1. Made our elements;
    2. Gave birth to Earth and the Sun; and
    3. Still energizes the Earth-Sun system today.

    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1994RadAc..64..167K

    http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1994Data.htm

    http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1996Data.htm

    http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2005/pdf/1033.pdf

    http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/05apr_pulsarplanets/

    http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/13dec_globaleruption/

    Society and world leaders must grasp that reality – their total powerlessness over the unstable energy source that powers the Sun and sustains our very lives – if society is to survive the current worldwide unrest that threatens social order.

    With kind regards,
    Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo
    http://myprofile.cos.com/manuelo09

    Autobiography of Professor Paul Kazuo kuroda
    http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts2005/PKKAutobiography.pdf

  11. Verity Jones says:

    @Boballab
    Excellent video. Thanks.

  12. pouncer says:

    Re: wisdom teeth,

    My advice on the topic is do NOT allow Army dentists (captains) to extract wisdom teeth, particularly on the grounds that “well, they’re going to have to come out sooner or later, Specialist; don’t you think you should sign here agreeing we’ll just pull them now, before you deploy, instead of in a tent over there…?”

    After having two dentists yanking at me, one literally kneeling on my chest while tugging the pliers (this in the early 80’s, well before the innovations E.M. describes) I spent the next week in the most pain of my life. When I broke my neck twenty years later, the E.R. almost didn’t twig because, when they asked me how much pain I was in — on a scale of one to ten with ten being the worst ever — I rated my neck pain “about a seven”. So I guess my real advice is, to practioners, “ask what the patient considers a 10” .

  13. adolfogiurfa says:

    @ Mr.Nigel Farage: You arrived a bit late to the party. It began at the French Revolution, and it will die as old greek democracies died: every two hundred years, so wait and see the return of monarchies…..

  14. adolfogiurfa says:

    @boballab Tell THEM (the hidden elite, the masters of politicians-servants) not to do it. That´s impossible, they will. We just are expected to work and be silent…entiende?

  15. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OfiSdaIJl4 The Strawman Illusion

    Didn’t know most lightning occurs over land, is this because the land is under the water?

    Over ninety percent of lightening occurs over land, not over the oceans or seas of the world. Is there a pattern here? Why would the charges build up between land and water? What is there about this area that induces apparent greater charges? http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/cosmology/airline.htm

    Another interesting video, St Elmo if it was night time?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo%27s_fire

    Check out this as well, St Elmo fire static around a volcano ?

    http://www.real-science.com/epa-glacier-fraud

    Great Post on Glaciers, I think some glaciers have retreated 80km or so in the early part of the 20th century. The “scientists” show a small retreat over the last few years and make it out as if its the first time ever glaciers started melting

    Other evidence is trees and treelines being exposed in Alaska/Canada http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/003358947790014X

    Much of the 20th century has experienced glacier recession, but probably it would be premature to declare the Little Ice Age over. The complex moraine systems of the older expansion interval lie immediately downvalley from Little Ice Age moraines, suggesting that the two expansion intervals represent similar events in the Holocene, and hence that the Little Ice Age is not unique.

  16. kuhnkat says:

    Piers Corbyn has been trying his hand at predicting geoactivity:

    http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=8679

    Gov. Christie appears to be deaf, dumb and blind to radical Islam in the US!!

    http://www.investigativeproject.org/2506/gov-christie-strange-relationship-with-radical

  17. kuhnkat says:

    Pouncer,

    I had my 4 wisdom teeth removed in the mid 70’s in the hospital at Travis AFB in northern California. They told me they wanted to remove them. I told them they would have to gas me to keep me in the chair . They did and I have no complaints. I would recommend to most people that they be knocked out for root canals and other serious procedures. The dentist has an easier job and is less likely to make a mess of your mouth. A friend of mine had two out a month or two later and ended up with a dry socket. He was awake for the procedure.

    It is possible that USAF dentists were better than Army, but, I wouldn’t bet too much on it. I seem to remember a Captain and a Lieutenant.

  18. George says:

    Looks like Spain is getting ready to throw the Socialists out with gusto. So far polling looks like a landslide for the right in Sunday’s election.

  19. @George

    Reversing. at last, the al Qaeda election after the Madrid train bombings (and political trainwreck).

    ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle

  20. Wayne Job says:

    That good looking dark haired shiella from the Milan uni seems to have her head screwed on the right way.

    E. M. I am becoming a little concerned about the amount of seismic activity in the pacific rim of fire and the West coast of America, some thing rather big may happen soon. Keep yourself safe. The harmonics are becoming rather propitious for a major event.

  21. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Scarlet Pumpernickel : Exccelent video showing the electrical origin of Volcanic eruptions.
    I think some glaciers have retreated 80km or so in the early part of the 20th century
    Don´t think it anymore!, perhaps due to some subsidiary “Gore Effect” they are returning…:
    Gradually way traffic is restored Arequipa
    November 19, 2011 | Category: National | Written by: People and Society News
    From midnight until now stranded hundreds of units in that road, raising concerns among the passengers who had to spend the night in an area over 3,000 meters high.
    Police reported that traffic was paralyzed at the height of the area known as Cruise, not only by the thick layer of snow covering the road but the traffic chaos that occurred in the place.
    The layer of snow covering the road, reached the 30 inches high, which prevented the units continue their journey.

    Personal and heavy machinery of the Ministry of Transportation and Communication came to the place to clear the road and restore traffic.
    In the next few hours traffic is expected to be fully normalized.

    http://www.pysnnoticias.com/2011/11/19/en-forma-gradual-se-restablece-trafico-en-via-arequipa-puno-por-nevada/
    This is right now (about 16°15´South, 71°22´West) -springtime-.

  22. George says:

    I am becoming a little concerned about the amount of seismic activity in the pacific rim of fire and the West coast of America

    I am becoming concerned about the Ft. Tejon section of the fault. It has been too quiet. It appears that the Southern part of the Elsinore fault zone is “creeping” a bit with constant little quakes which then transfer over to the Coyote Creek fault zone and continue North until that activity transfers over to the Southern San Andreas at about Banning. But the section centered on about “The Grapevine” appears eerily “stuck” up to about Parkfield where we see movement again all the way up to about San Juan Batista.

    Even more ominous to me is the seeming activity on the newly forming White Wolf fault going over to the Eastern Sierra and then North from there. It would appear that the “stuck” portion is dragging a good portion of California with it at this point. So we are basically in a race to see which gives first. Do we have another Owens Valley (1872) quake or another Ft. Tejon (1857) quake? I think it is going to be one or the other or possibly both within a short time of each other (again).

  23. E.M.Smith says:

    @George:

    Yeah. California’s change of behaviour has had me watching too. It’s “changed” and not for the better. I suspect a couple of ‘something big’s are going to happen, One, the loss of Oakland / Berkeley. The other a ‘big thing’ somewhere in the volcanic line from down near L.A. up to near Tahoe / Mono Lake. Activity is moved more inland and more toward old volcano areas. (IMHO due to tidal current shifting of the mantle upwellings)

    I’m just hoping it has an impact in ‘geologic time’ ;-)

    FWIW, as I’m near the coast, none of it is likely to do anything to me. I’m out the outer margin of a Mammoth “Lakes” event, too far from the L.A. / Owens Valley, Mono line; and just far enough from Berkeley / Oakland and it’s faults that a Great Quake on them will cost me a few wine glasses and that’s about it. (Loma Prieta was a 7ish and it was about 20 to 10 miles away so anything further away will take more. I lost one wine glass… So unless it’s in the 8ish scale, I’ve got no worries…)

    I chose this spot after looking at the USGS maps for soils and faults for a few months. I think I ‘chose well’… we barely even feel 5.x sized events unless we’re right on top of them. Even they it’s more like a bit of window rattle and “Was that a quake, dear?”…

    @Verity:

    I think that article has it right. HOWEVER, I think eventually folks will figure out that Neanderthals did NOT die out and it’s not a ‘trivial’ contribution. We compare Neanderthal DNA to MODERN DNA. We need to compare it to ancient Cro Magnon DNA from the same ancient era, otherwise we’re comparing Neander DNA to ‘the mix’. AFAIK nobody is doing that yet (and there are not a lot of good samples to work from).

    So my thesis is that we are detecting the tiny bits of Neander DNA that are not widely disbursed and missing the ‘big lumps’.

    Compare a Neander to a Cro and you find a lot of things that are found all over in Europeans, not in non-Europeans (or rare in them). But we consider those to be ‘normal modern’ traits. For example, my ‘high illiac crest hips’. My “farmers hands” with wide square fingers. Lots of facial and body hair. Heck, just look at a picture of Edward Teller. His face shouts Neanderthal. From the “owl eyes” to the furry eye brow ridge to the nose that heads more forward from the skull and is large (as opposed to the ‘button nose’ or the flat bridge of Asian and Black noses) to the rear set skull to… Or look at Anthony Quinn or even Patrick Stewart (his occipital bun and long shaped skull). They have LOTS of Neanderthal features not found in early Cro Magnon, but counted as “modern DNA”…

    IMHO, the European nose, heavier brow ridges, head shape, hair, robust upper body muscles, heavy bones, wisdom teeth troubles (to some extent) and even the tendency to more, er, Rubenesque body form as european women age likely all are Neanderthal in origin. Oh, and I think you can add in white skin and blue / green eyes too perhaps along with blond / red hair. That the few Neanders we’ve mapped have a different red hair gene is no proof that some OTHER Neanders with a variant gene didn’t give it to us.

    So, IMHO, Neanderthals did not ‘die out’ and are not a ‘trivial fraction’ of our DNA. We are them, with some Cro Magnon blended in. Mostly in Europeans (and it’s what makes Europeans who they are as a race) but increasingly in other races as well. Look at the over sized blacks in American Foot ball and you see Neander traits that are not seen in the original blacks brought from Africa. The black / white hybrids in America have the same hybrid vigor advantage. So you get guys with stocky build, shorter legs, great upper body strength, and some of the same facial features showing up. Now add a 10% heavier bones and higher specific strength per pound of muscle from the African contribution and you get “Refrigerator Perry”..

    Eventually I think we will get enough ‘old cro’ DNA to prove this. Until then, it’s just speculative. But once you get the Neander type feature list memorized, you start seeing more of it than can be accounted for with a tiny fraction of a few genes…

  24. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/spring01/Electrodynamics.html

    Top 5 Environmental disasters that never happened

    Watch the whole video before making comments, but I just watched it and it makes some of the points below.

    (a) Fructose in the liver is identical to ethanol (alcohol). Watch the video and see the biochemistry. So you can get the exact same problems. People are getting the same “Beer bellies” with Fructose as you do with drinking too much beer.

    (b) Fructose is different to ethanol in the fact that is has NO effect in the brain, so you won’t get drunk from it, but it has the exact same biochemical pathways. So it essentially becomes converted into fat. But you don’t have any warning that you are consuming too much.

    (c) Fructose in nature is ok, because its associated with high fibre, eg Fruit or Sugar cane (trying eating sugar can, it’s full of fibre). High fibre is good because a skinny person will essentially fart more, as the bacteria in the gut will get rid of the excess fructose due to the increased fibre. In nature, the poison Fructose is combined with Fibre which is in a way an antidote to the poison it comes with. It’s a trick to get us to eat the fibre which we need.

    (d) Fructose leads to all the same effects as alcohol. Also increases the blood pressure via uric acid changes. It also produces bad fats which can damage the blood vessels.

    (e) Paleolithic diets can in many cases cure diabetes (type 2)in about a week.

    (f) Calories are not the problem. Its the Leptin pathway activation which is important. You cannot ever burn off the Big Mac and cookies with exercise, its your metabolism which determines this, as the speed of processes is increased with exercise (not the exercise energy event itself). Exercise also improves the insulin effects of skeletal muscle. That’s why people how say they have a high metabolism can eat a lot and not get fat. You can improve your metabolism by eating more fibre and exercising more. But you don’t really “burn” the fat or the calories of food per say.

    (g) When you eat sucrose/glucose, insulin is activated and other pathways which make you feel full. This is not the case with fructose. Your brain and your body do not know that you have over consumed Fructose.

    (h) The USDA food pyramid is flawed, as if they took these effects literally then Fructose would be seen as a toxin. Also fibre goes off quickly in food storage, so it is underrepresented, we should be eating up to 300g of fibre a day instead of 12g. But we really need more fibre.

    (g) Our obsession since the 1970s of reducing fat, has been replaced with sugar (as foods without any fat taste crap), but this has made us even more obese

    (h) Would you feed a child a Budweiser beer? Since that’s what we are doing when we feed them HFCS soda pop. It has the exact same effect, minus the brain effects (drunk).

    (i) Babies formula has 10.3g of fructose alike to Coke Cola. So essentially we are producing fat babies from the same mechanism.

    (j) All sugars are essentially bad, but Fructose is the worst one, alike to Ethanol.

  25. George says:

    http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/11/20/duke-of-edinburgh-calls-wind-farms-useless/

    … the Duke of Edinburgh summoned up the spirit of Don Quixote to let fly at the windmills that, in his view are polluting the British countryside to no good purpose. They will never work he said, and “are a disgrace.” They are inefficient and cannot work without huge subsidies, and because they do not supply constant energy, traditional power plants must continue to be built to back them up.

  26. George says:

    14,000 idle windmills in the US:

    http://www.minnesotansforglobalwarming.com/m4gw/2011/11/14000-abandoned-wind-turbines-in-the-usa.html

    They get installed and run until the subsidy runs out and then they are abandoned. Their purpose is not to generate power but to generate cash from government subsidy programs. Once the subsidy runs out, so does the power.

  27. George says:

    Might want to check Anthony’s or JeffId’s site. Climategate 2.0 just before the big IPCC conference.

  28. PhilJourdan says:

    @George – Joanne Nova, Bishop Hill, The Air Vent, Climate Audit, and more – it exploded about 6 hours ago. from what I was, the anonymous poster posted the links about 4am EST today.

  29. E.M.Smith says:

    Kent Gatewood also put a pointer to Climategate 2.0 in T2.

    For those wanting to take a look, here are a couple of links to WUWT:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/22/ncdc-mr-watts-gave-a-well-reasoned-position/

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/22/climategate-2-0/

    if you want to download a zip of them:

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ROCGBR37

  30. E.M.Smith says:

    Gosh… Christmas is come early this year ;-)

    From CG 2.0 Emails:

    Dear Phil,

    Thank you for your message of Sept 11, 2007. I have just been back from the US. Sorry
    for the delayed response.
    I noted the discussion on blog sites. This is indeed a big issue in the studies of
    climate change.
    In the past years, we did some analyses of the urban warming effect on surface air
    temperature trends in China, and we found the effect is pretty big in the areas we
    analyzed. This is a little different from the result you obtained in 1990.
    I think there
    might be at least three reasons for the difference: (1) the areas chosen in the analyses
    are different; (2) the time periods analyzed are obviously varied, and the aft-1990
    period is seeing a more rapid warming in most areas of China; (3) the rural stations
    used for the analyses are different, and we used some stations which we think could be
    more representative for the baseline change.

    We have published a few of papers on this topic in Chinese. Unfortunately, when we sent
    our comments to the IPCC AR4, they were mostly rejected.
    It is my opinion that we need to re-assess the urbanization effect on surface air
    temperature records for at least some regions of the continents. I am glad that you are
    going to redo it using the updated dataset. I expect you to obtain the new outcome.
    As for the dataset, I believe that Dr. Li Qingxiang could give you a hand. He and his
    group conducted a lot work of detection and adjustment of the inhomogeneities in the
    past years, and the adjusted and the raw datasets are all stored and managed in his
    center. The datasets we used are also from his center.
    I’d be happy to discuss some issues with you late, but I would not necessarily be as a
    co-author because my contribution would be rather minor.

    Best regards,

    Guoyu

    So the PARTICULAR STATIONS chosen and just WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED matter to the UHI “result” (which is found to be large in China…).

    So just how is it that the particular stations in our out of GHCN and USHCN don’t make any difference (especially as they span the period of most rapid industrialization and urbanization of The West) but they do matter in a recent study of UHI in an industrializing China?

    That’s gotta hurt “the cause”… (which the Climate Clowns keep talking about as in ‘Judith Curry is not helping the cause’…)

  31. bruce says:

    E.M.S.,

    Is there a way for individuals to make money in private companies?
    I’m of the belief that Neverwet is a product that has some appeal.
    http://www.neverwet.com/

  32. George says:

    Is there a way for individuals to make money in private companies?

    With all those philosophy majors occupying various parks, I thought about starting a major Fortune 500 philosophy firm, Socrates-R-Us or something, and leverage all that idle talent. It would be something of a “Nietzsche” operation, though.

  33. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Latest on Rossi “E-cat”

    Andrea Rossi
    November 21st, 2011 at 11:25 PM

    Dear Felipe From Chile:
    You are right, we are organizing this.
    BY THE WAY: WE COLLECT FROM NOW THE NAMES OF ALL THE PERSONS OR ENITITES INTERESTED TO BUY AN E-CAT OF 10 KW. IF WE WILL REACH 10,000 NAMES IN THE LIST, THE PERSONS IN THE WAITING LIST WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONFIRM OR NOT THEIR ORDER AT 400 EURO/THERMAL KW. DO NOT SEND MONEY, WE WILL ACCEPT THE ORDERS ONLY IF WE WILL REACH 10,000 NAMES IN THE WAITING LIST, COMBINING OUR LIST WITH THE WAITING LIST ORGANIZED BY OUR BROTHERS OF HYDROFUSION .
    WARM REGARDS,
    ANDREA ROSSI, LEONARDO CORP. (PRESIDENT)

    This is for interest in purchase only, no deposit. Terms to be determined. pg

  34. E.M.Smith says:

    @Bruce:

    For private companies, you can buy stock in their distributors (so a ‘super pool chemical’ may mean more sales for a ‘pool supplies retailer’), their suppliers (so a special chemical that needs a unique catalyst from a small vendor will make money for that small catalyst vendor – like the folks who make cellulose enzymes vs the ethanol makers), or their bankers (if a small one.. such as a small investment banker who holds a lot of private shares).

    Other than that it’s pretty much “private placement” deals and those go to folks with million dollar wallets and larger…

    Does look like a neat product, though.

    @P.G. Sharrow:

    The “don’t send money” aspect is interesting. Either a Very Crafty ponzi ploy or they really have something and don’t want to bother with the money side if the market isn’t going to be worth their time… To me, makes it look more ‘real’…

  35. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @ E.M.Smith; Yes $40,000,000 in projected sales could be a good hook for venture capital. It appears that they have sold 10 1MW units to the DoD as the first one was tested and accepted by a US military unit. These package units are built in a container, 20 footer? for delivery and use for hot water/heating of apartments. Rossi claims he is self financing his operation. We shall see as I offered to purchase one of the 10Kw units. pg

  36. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    Interesting how Nuclear War used to be the old Global Warming

  37. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    Nicotine and weird dreams

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/8908038/Minister-attacks-Barack-Obama-for-failing-to-show-climate-change-leadership.html

    To act on Climate change means no economy. You can’t have economy and then have no emissions, it’s not possible. In 2008, we had the chance to act on climate change by letting the whole world’s economy collapse, but we didn’t we propped it up again. So why didn’t they just let the whole thing collapse, as that would have dropped the emissions as wanted?

    So Obama is acting on Climate Change –> high unemployment

    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.analist.nl/advies/2011/11/22/116929/Dexia__KBC+Securities__sell&ei=kELMTqrQA4S-tgeb1c2VAQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQ7gEwAA&prev=/search?q=http://www.analist.nl/advies/2011/11/22/116929/Dexia__KBC%2BSecurities__sell&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=511&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns

    http://twitter.com/#!/joancondijts

    http://ibankcoin.com/news/2011/11/22/dexia-bailout-in-jeopardy/

    Dexia Collapse coming round2

    http://reason.com/archives/2006/05/05/peak-oil-panic/singlepage Apocalypse Yesterday

    Predictions of imminent catastrophic depletion are almost as old as the oil industry. An 1855 advertisement for Kier’s Rock Oil, a patent medicine whose key ingredient was petroleum bubbling up from salt wells near Pittsburgh, urged customers to buy soon before “this wonderful product is depleted from Nature’s laboratory.” The ad appeared four years before Pennsylvania’s first oil well was drilled. In 1919 David White of the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) predicted that world oil production would peak in nine years. And in 1943 the Standard Oil geologist Wallace Pratt calculated that the world would ultimately produce 600 billion barrels of oil. (In fact, more than 1 trillion barrels of oil had been pumped by 2006.)

    During the 1970s, the Club of Rome report The Limits to Growth projected that, assuming consumption remained flat, all known oil reserves would be entirely consumed in just 31 years. With exponential growth in consumption, it added, all the known oil reserves would be consumed in 20 years. These dour predictions gained credibility when the Arab oil crisis of 1973 quadrupled prices from $3 to $12 per barrel (from $16 to $48 in 2006 dollars) and when the Iranian oil crisis more than doubled oil prices from $14 per barrel in 1978 to $35 per barrel by 1981 (from $45 to $98 in 2006 dollars).

  38. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://frontpagemag.com/2011/11/25/saudi-arabia-and-the-global-islamic-terrorist-network/ For decades now, the West and America in particular, has been pretending that Saudi Arabia is our ally. This book lifts the veil off that myth by demonstrating the various ways that Saudi ideology has infiltrated America and the West, posing a threat to our freedom and way of life. It includes chapters on Saudi penetration into American NGO’s, American so-called “mainstream Muslim” organizations, the American school curriculum, finances, and more. The point is to illustrate the negative impact our addiction to oil will ultimately have on our society. It’s really about the stealth jihad.

  39. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-25/russia-s-south-hit-by-record-low-temperatures-center-says.html

    Ready for the Global Warming Conference Russia coldest since the 1880s lol

    And the Volt catching on Fire

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/26/us-gm-volt-idUSTRE7AO1SH20111126

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v479/n7374/full/nature10621.html

    Evidence for an oxygen-depleted liquid outer core of the Earth

  40. George says:

    Reading this article about the “impending” breakup of the Euro:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/26/business/global/banks-fear-breakup-of-the-euro-zone.html?_r=1&hp

    It would be quite a simple thing to “save” the Euro. Simply throw Italy and Greece out. Give Portugal and Spain a bit more time, and throw them out of they can’t their stuff together in short order. Don’t throw away the entire concept, just throw away the concept that you can’t have a single unified currency without a unified fiscal policy.

    The idea here being to tell Greece first “You were irresponsible, I’m sorry, we can no longer afford to bear your extravagance.” and throw them right out of the Euro. The message is then clear to Italy, clean up your act “pronto” or you are next. Give them six months. If they don’t make serious progress in that time, kick them out, too. That should allow the Euro to survive for a while longer.

  41. George says:

    Couple of small M2 quakes today in the “quiet” area between Cajon Pass and Palmdale. Probably nothing …

  42. E.M.Smith says:

    @S.P.:

    Interesting question about a politically connected Friend Of Obama getting a contract to make a pill to treat smallpox that only exists in freezers of us and the Russians…

    Anthrax is a very common bug in soils. It used to be called ‘wool sorters disease’ and there were some natural cases of it in the hills near me just a couple of years ago. It is easily ‘weaponized’, and very easy to get material to work with (dig in the soil in just about any place with farm animals).

    When I was in high school in a farm town, part of our “health class” was learning to recognize what anthrax lesions looked like (as it was pretty likely some of use would see them on animals or on us…)

    So basically anyone who lives near cows, horses, sheep, or goats would benefit… or anyone who has Crazy Islamist Fundamentalists wanting to kill them.

    Per China:

    Yup. That’s the “Achilles Heel” of China. When you own world manufacturing, you also own one of the more cyclical parts of the economy; and when folks slow down their spending, you take a hard body blow.

    It’s going to get worse.

    As the PIIGS (and inevitably the rest of Europe) have to deal with “Austerity”, it’s the money flow for “stuff” that will be curbed most, and that means China. The home and food and fuel payments will continue… as will the medical care. So Arabs and farmers and state medical systems will do OK… China not so much.

    As the US runs out of money, they get the ‘double whammy’ from us too.

    Right now everyone is just hoping that things will get better soon before it breaks and they have faith that getting better will happen. But “Hope is not a strategy. -E.M.Smith” and I’d add “Faith is in not a tactic. -E.M.Smith” So as hope and faith turn to ‘hard times and cutbacks’, China tanks. That, IMHO, is when the fireworks start. How will China loan us $1 Trillion MORE if they have income dropping? That’s when the only option left is printing currency. That has dire consequences…

  43. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/12/01/3381149.htm

    So, a comet hits a star and we see a flash. Come on this gravity model has got to be totally wrong….

    and

    http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F5071FF9345A13738DDDAA0A94D0405B828FF1D3 Lucky we put those eugenics recommendations in all the 97% of scientists were recommending at the 3rd International Eugenics Conference or we would have not made it to the end of this century?

  44. Jason Calley says:

    You will laugh. Politically incorrect maps: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/europe-according

    By the way, concerning the phrase “politically incorrect” — I remember when I first heard it used as any type of United States concern. This would have been in the later half of the 1970s, and until that time, the only context for “politically incorrect” was a reference to the Maoist usage toward poor schmoes who made the mistake of not following the Chinese Communist party line. The phrase was a self evident indictment of the Chinese tyranny over their subjects. “Politically incorrect?! What kind of %^$& is this?! The U.S. is a FREE country! We can think what we like, believe what we wish. There is no “politically incorrect” here! What are? Slaves? And who are you to tell me what to think?! ‘Politically incorrect,’ my a$$!”

    Personally, I still feel the same way, but a surprising number of folk seem to think that thoughts are too dangerous to be allowed freedom.

  45. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Jason Calley Are you really free? If you were, the economy would be booming. Trouble is some think that it is possible to create wealth by decree.
    It does not matter how many zeroes you add up, you won´t get a single unit :-)

  46. Jason Calley says:

    @ adolfogiurfa You make a good point, and I did a poor job of saying what I meant.

    I did, in fact, think that the US was a free country in the 1970s — and I think it very much the case that it was much more free then, than now. The increase in taxation, legislation, regulations, fees of every sort, even torture — is stunning. I have several friends who have emigrated from former Soviet block countries to the US. I am not sure they believe me when I tell them how relatively unfettered our choices were only a few decades ago.

    As for your question, “Are you really free?”, it may surprise you, but yes, I am. It is true that there are forces which do their utmost (I almost said “do their best”, but there is no “best” about it) to constrain me, but I am free. Suppose you own a car, and someone steals it from you. Do you still own the car? I would say, yes, you own it, even though you are being prevented from making use of it. Freedom is similar, and is a logical consequence of self-ownership. I was born free. My freedom is a natural right, something that I possessed the moment I slipped out of my mother’s womb. Just like a lion’s natural state is to roar or hunt, and an antelope’s natural state is to run and graze, my natural state is freedom. I am a free creature.

    It is odd. I am a little embarrassed posting something that seems so idealistic, so un-worldly. I feel a little like the guy handing out religious tracts on a street corner. On the other hand, maybe a little idealism is a good thing. I know this may sound more like a philosophical or semantic point, rather than a pragmatic point, but to me, it makes a difference. I am free. I am a free human being. I was created free and I own myself.

  47. R. de Haan says:

    @Jason Caley,

    Your’e free as as long as they allow you to be free.

    Some nasty legislature was hammered away two day’s ago and it doesn’t look good. Similar stuff we have in Europe.

  48. Jason Calley says:

    @ R. de Haan I am guessing you are talking about this:
    http://original.antiwar.com/andrew-p-napolitano/2011/11/30/can-congress-steal-your-constitutional-freedoms/

    Yes, nasty and worse than nasty. :(

  49. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1296858/do_you_need_to_wear_sunglasses_www_mercola_com/

    Sunglasses like sunscreen are a massive hoax? (Unless you are skiiing or on the ocean)

  50. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

  51. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

  52. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

  53. George says:

    Retired Australian cartoonist comes out of retirement:

  54. E.M.Smith says:

    @Jason Calley and R. de Haan:

    I am free. Nothing that any government nor agency can do will ever change that.

    Yes, I can be placed in a cage. Yes, my ‘stuff’ can be taken away.

    No, none of that changes my self ownership.

    It is exactly the same as the difference between a domesticated sheep and a wild ram in a cage.

    There is absolutely NOTHING that can be done to change that.

    Kill me. Run me through a meat grinder. At most you can cause me to “die free”.

    Oddly, I’ve explored this at some length with my rabbits.

    My dog was domesticated. He cared what I thought about him (and didn’t seem to miss his balls all that much). My cat was semi-domesticated. He found me useful, and was willing to compromise his beliefs for some guarantee of decent kibble and not cutting his balls off as my wife wanted to do ( a bit of poor understanding on his part, IMHO, of what were the actual dynamics… then again, he DID get to keep his balls and have “nights out”… so what do I know).

    But the rabbits do not, even for a moment, expect that I am of importance nor worth unless proven. The do not expect ME to be trustworthy. The do not expect ME to defend them nor help them retain their intact state. No, the rabbits insist that I prove myself, or be treated with suspicion. Even then, it is sometimes a day by day thing. It takes about 1/2 of a rabbit lifespan to be treated as “OK to trust”.

    They do not supplicate themselves to you as do dogs.

    They are not ‘bright but clueless about you’ as are birds (parrots).

    They are not blindly expectant that your are their servant as are cats.
    (As several which were neutered discovered to their chagrin… )

    No, the rabbit looks at you and says: “Just who the hell are you and why in the hell ought I trust you with my fleas, let alone anything else?”

    You can put them in a ‘bad place’. You can give them ‘hard times’. But at no time does the relationship change unless YOU earn it.

    I am proud to say that I’ve earned, and that’s an all caps bold EARNED, the respect and acceptance of several different generations of free range bunnies. That matters more to me than any wealth I have, any human flattery, and any love from any other species, including humans. It is so hard to explain what it means to be accepted and adjudged “good guy” but such a discriminating person.

    (Realize that “prideful” is a sin… so it’s a really big thing to say I am proud).

    Bunnies are born free, live free, and die free. They may be in a cage, but that does NOT change their status. They have only been ‘domesticated’ about 200 years, and that is not enough to change who they are.

    So as for me, and with great pride, I state for all time: “I am a free bunny”. No matter what cage is near me… or what side of the wire I am on.

    Silly? Spend some time being “Servant to Bunnies”, then we will talk…

  55. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Don’t know about bunnies. I am servant to a half a dozen cats and doorman for a dog, does that count? 8-) pg

  56. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/12/111201-voyager-probes-milky-way-light-hydrogen-sun-nasa-space

    Voyager find a weird type of UV light that is blocked out by our sun on outskirts of Solar System

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/02/new-paper-suggests-sun-may-be-headed-for-a-maunder-minimum/

    When there is a maunder minimum, does more things enter the solar system ;)

  57. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/faq.html#15 B17 (Arsenic) does it work lol?

  58. R. de Haan says:

    E.M.Smith (03:44:37) :
    @Jason Calley and R. de Haan:

    “I am free. Nothing that any government nor agency can do will ever change that”.

    That’s a hard claim to maintain with an administration that regards you as a battery chicken stealing your eggs world wide only because you’re a holder of an American Passport under laws that allow them to put you in detention at their will or cut your throat at their convenience by our own military.

    Freedom in the USA (and Europe) has become… an illusion at best.

    http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/ipe/friedman.htm

    http://disquietreservations.blogspot.com/2011/12/military-occupation-of-america-by.html

  59. E.M.Smith says:

    @S.P.: Um, I think you will find that cancer article is talking about amygdalin and not arsenic… but I think the cyanide in the amygdalin / laetrile is likely about the same utility … I’m also pretty sure it doesn’t work…

    @R. de Haan:

    The deer in the sights of the hunter remains a free deer. It is the sheep that does not leave the pen, even with open gate, that is least free… The first can be killed, but has not become penned, the second is penned even where there is not a pen, as it has accepted that status of dominance…

    So yes, the USA has become a “Mighty Hunter” on a global scale. I’m still the only person who decides my fate (others can set the circumstances, that is all). It is an important point, IMHO.

    I suppose you could put it more crudely as “I may be subjected to force, but refuse to be domesticated.”

    Free Will, it’s a mind thing…

  60. R. de Haan says:

    I’m still the only person who decides my fate (others can set the circumstances, that is all). It is an important point, IMHO.
    “I may be subjected to force, but refuse to be domesticated.”

    Just hang on to that attitude.

    For we’ll soon have to decide if we remain the hunted or hunt for ourselves.

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/senate-military-detention/

  61. Jason Calley says:

    @ R. de Haan and E.M.

    E.M., looks like we have the same attitude on this. “Kill me. Run me through a meat grinder. At most you can cause me to “die free”.”

    and R. de Haan, I really do not disagree at all about what you point to as a very clear and present threat. Maybe we are at more of a semantic disagreement than a philosophical one. To me, freedom, is “inalienable.” It is not a measure of what constraints I am under or what privileges I am granted, but is an intrinsic quality that I possess. If I had to pick a word for the state of being unconstrained, I would probably use “liberty.” A man in prison has lost his liberty, but as long as he maintains self-ownership, he remains a free man. Granted, he is a free man trapped within walls, but he is still a free man. As I say, maybe just semantics, but the idea of intrinsic, inalienable attributes for all humans is so powerful and so wonderfully explanatory, that it is important — I think — to draw the difference and remember that freedom really is our natural birthright, and not something to grant or withdraw.

    But you are right about the current legislation. In my humble opinion, the US is facing the most dangerous time since its founding — even more dangerous than the Civil War. These are sobering times, and I do not discount at all any of the things you point out. As you say, “Just hang on to that attitude.”

    Yes, Sir, I will do my best to do so.

  62. R. de Haan says:

    E.M, Jason Calley,

    Seems to me we’re birds of a feather

  63. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    Interesting Pyramids in Japan

  64. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    @ E.M.Smith re Vitamin B17. I think somewhere near Turkey or the some of the Stans, some of these older cultures prize the Apricot stone and actually collect it and eat it quite a bit.

    http://www.b17.com.au/copy.asp?sect=q2&page=people

    Not sure how true this is, but it is interesting…?

    My guess is that cancer cells are less resistant to these low concentration toxic products and are killed by them?

    It’s hard to know whether it’s just because you can’t patent it whether it has some application?

  65. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1984/10/9/caffeine-kills-insects-scientist-says-pif/

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/7850487/Caffeine-A-Natural-Insecticide

    Did you know every time you have a Coffee, your actually having a natural insecticide. That’s why the plant produces it, to kill insects. So every time you see a study trying to prove how great coffee is for you, remember it’s basically trying to prove that an insecticide is good for you ;)

  66. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    Chocolate is also a poison, why it kills dogs http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/nutritiondogs/a/chocolatetoxici.htm

    They love doing stories on why it’s so good for you ;)

  67. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    Nicotine, another insecticide. Why not just smoke the flyspray? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insecticide

    Natural insecticides, such as nicotine, pyrethrum and neem extracts are made by plants as defenses against insects. Nicotine based insecticides are still being widely used in the US and Canada though they are barred in the EU

    http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/insect-mite/mevinphos-propargite/nicotine/nicotine_tol_1201.html Yummy lets have a Cigarette and help kill insects at the same time LOL

  68. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    Someone should bring out the Cocaine Fly spray ;)

    http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/1994/1-12-1994/cocaine.html

  69. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.deepwater.com/fw/main/Transocean-GSF-Rig-127-Drills-Deepest-Extended-Reach-Well-283C4.html

    Oil at 12km depth

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole

    At 12km + The rock there had been thoroughly fractured and was saturated with water, which was surprising. This water, unlike surface water, must have come from deep-crust minerals and had been unable to reach the surface because of a layer of impermeable rock.[8]

    Another unexpected discovery was the large quantity of hydrogen gas, with the mud flowing out of the hole described as “boiling” with hydrogen.

    http://www.damninteresting.com/the-deepest-hole/

    Another unexpected find was a menagerie of microscopic fossils as deep as 6.7 kilometers below the surface. Twenty-four distinct species of plankton microfossils were found, and they were discovered to have carbon and nitrogen coverings rather than the typical limestone or silica. Despite the harsh environment of heat and pressure, the microscopic remains were remarkably intact.

  70. R. de Haan says:

    DATE and TIME (UTC) LAT-ITUDE LONG-ITUDE MAG-NITUDE DEPTH km REGION
    04-DEC-2011 15:35:37 25.99 -111.81 5.2 10.0 BAJA CALIFORNIA, MEXICO

  71. R. de Haan says:

    Must See: THE CLIMATE CHANGE ACT RECONSIDERED

  72. E.M.Smith says:

    @S.P.:

    “The poison is in the dose”. Old medical truth.

    Salt is poisonous. Sugar is poisonous. OXYGEN is toxic and can kill… (over about 2 atmospheres partial pressure, so must be reduced in deep diving mixes).

    I grow tobacco to use as pesticide, it’s been done for hundreds of years. Look up ‘tobacco tea’ and gardening or farming. Not news at all to anyone who farmed prior to the Chemical Era, who farms using organic means, or just had their eyes open listening to old farmers.

    The “Chocolate and dogs” thing is widely pushed, less frequently made clear is that chocolate is no more toxic to dogs than to humans (just we won’t eat 10 lbs of it in one sitting and dogs will… so can consume far higher doses).

    Oh, and insect metabolism is highly different from mammalian. That’s why we can eat a lot of stuff that kills them AND they can eat a lot of stuff that kills us (like many plants). Poison to one is often food to the other.

    Per Cancer: Lots of theories and crazy ideas floating around. If anyone had anything that worked well, it would be front page news.

    Per deep oil, plants, fossils, etc:

    When are you going to learn that the earth surface MOVES, by A LOT, UP and DOWN? Take a look at this map of where the global land was during the Permian (when a lot of oil was made):

    Realize that this is AFTER the carboniferous when most of the coal was laid down. Notice the LACK of a division between South America and Africa? Notice how completely incomprehensible most of the layout is? So stuff from “shallow seas” has plenty of time to be folded, sunk, overthrust, migrate THROUGH some rocks, get shoved under other rocks, or get miles of ‘new ocean’ flowing over the top of it as it sinks.

    DEPTH of oil today says exactly NOTHING about depth of formation. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Ether get that point, or expect to go back to the moderation queue if you keep pushing “Gooolly it’s DEEP” with the implication being “so must be abiotic”. We’ve already “got it” that you think oil is abiotic. We’ve also aready “got it” that I see evidence both ways with almost all evidence saying most oil is of biotic origin from algae. Nothing is going to change unless there is a really big break through on biomarker free oil. DEPTH won’t cut it as evidence. So “pushing it” is not going to work. Flogging dead horses is not of benefit.

    At best “failure to take guidance” can annoy me and put you ‘on hold’. I’d rather have “interesting new stuff” than “worrying old sores”…

    (I’d thought you ‘got this’ the first round through, but it would appear not. So now I’m forced into a more direct and stronger presentation than I really like to do… Please pick up this clue so I don’t have to escalate to even more direct flogging… )

  73. Jason Calley says:

    The chemistry of warfare nerve gases is very similar to that of insecticides (natural and man made) — which I find rather fascinating. Consider that many of the chemicals which we love to ingest are the similar to the chemicals which kill bugs, and that many insecticides kill by disruption of nervous systems. No doubt you have seen the jerky movements of a newly poisoned insect as the nerves just don’t get the signals right, with ganglia firing when they should not. Makes you wonder just how similar mammal nerves are to insect nerves, and whether we humans like such chemicals because the increase nerve firing, or decrease it — or both! My guess is “mostly makes nerves faster and twitchier.” High doses of nicotine can induce elevated and erratic heart rates. Oddly, habitual nicotine usage seems to give some slight protection against Alzheimer’s.

    Just how similar are nerve gases to insecticides? Similar enough that testing kits designed to detect nerve gases will often show a positive for insecticides. “Hey Captain! We just detected nerve gas residues in this building!Should we detain the workers?” “Hmmmmm….Sergent, do you read Arabic?” “No, Captain.” “OK, then ask one of your translators to read that big sign on top of the building.” (Five minutes later…) “Captain, the sign says ‘Achme Bug Spray Company’.” “Yeah. Kinda thought so…”

  74. Pingback: Open Talk Tuesday « Musings from the Chiefio

  75. E.M.Smith says:

    @Jason Calley:

    The organophosphate pesticides have use in similar forms of nerve gasses… as do a couple of others.

    The more interesting ones are the more subtle ones. Like the pyrethrins. My bunnies like to eat Chrysanthemums as they have a pesticide that kills various parasites….

    Bugs like to eat my tomato leaves, that are poison to me…

    Some lethal agents cause the nerves to not stop firing. Some cause them to not fire. Can go either way. The ‘odd one’ is that there is a selective action on voluntary vs involuntary nerves for some agents. So if you get a nerve gas that causes the nerves to continuously fire (common) the antidote causes them to NOT fire (which, you would think, would cause you do die), but it doesn’t act on the involuntary nerves… So you black out and lay there, but continue to breath…

    FWIW, when we would go fishing the mosquitoes would mob me, but leave my Dad alone. He was a smoker… Don’t know if it was the blood level of nicotine or the cloud of smoke he would puff around himself to chase them off… but I was a pin cushion and he was happy catching fish.

    At any rate, it’s a modestly complex topic…

    FWIW, one of the ‘easy dodges’ of warfare laws is to set up your own “pesticide factory”. It’s just a minor swap to go from an organophospate bug spray that you can spill on your skin and only get ‘kind of nervous’ to one that kills you dead… So decent design lets you make ‘nerve gas’ on alternate Wednesdays and bug spray every inspection day…

    Kind of like having a ‘freeze dried milk and yogur’ factory that can also make anthrax cultures and the freeze dried weaponized form… BUT you do have to be very very careful about cleaning the equipment between batches ;-)

    FWIW, I recommend growing Mums. Nice to look at and you can use the dried petals and leaves to keep bugs away…

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