Islam: Freedom’s Last Defense?

Sometimes a thought comes, like it or not, and will not go away.

You hate the thought.

It is insolent.

No respect for weeks, months, perhaps even years or decades of carefully worked out “other thoughts”. Much more polite and rational thoughts. Well behaved thoughts that neatly fit a tidy mind, untainted by whispers of “conspiracy theory” or “crazy talk”. Groomed thoughts that have had a place at the table of the mind for a very long time. Now being insulted by a “crazy talk” upstart thought.

It just “shows up” and says “I’m here, get over it.” while shoving the other thoughts into the “does not fit the image” bucket. (Or, in rare occasions such as this one, into a “there are two possible images” bucket).

So what to do with it.

Hmmm…

Mrfft.

Ah..

Well.

How about sharing?

The impetus was a somewhat quasi paranoid video link posted by Scarlet Pumpernickel in T4. It’s a long video ( a bit shy of two hours) and wanders over a lot of turf. Most of it being an exposition of the New World Order links of various modern events, some of the families involved (such as the Rockefeller family) and ideas about where things are headed going forward. Which countries need to be “taken down” as they are not under proper control. The use of Israel as a new “Ulster” in the Middle East (a reference to The Crown planting a bunch of Protestants in North Ireland to create a permanent divide between the two halves so easier to control from outside).

And that caused a wheel to spin…

IF (note that word, it matters.) IF there is a New World Order and it is out to control the world by all the nefarious means in the video (and elsewhere) then what it fears is made visible by what it attacks. What it attacked was Islam In The Middle East via planting Israel as an “Ulster” (per the video). What has happened lately? Various “non compliant” independent Muslim Leaders have been “taken down”. What is “on deck”? Two orthogonal types of “non compliant” Islamic leaders. Assad in Syria (who has a connection to a philosophy of National State Socialism via old W.W.II historical links between the Ba’athist history and Germany) and the Ayatollah in Iran ( who has a kind of non-compliant religious base that is not prone to ‘molding’…)

One is a style from the past that has been disposed. The Fascist Socialism and the Nazi Socialism were “Third Way Socialisms” as presently being pushed by the “Progressives”; and they WERE the darlings of the Progressives prior to W.W.II – we have historical records to show it – but were ‘disposed’ when it became clear that the “racist” aspect “had issues” and the “dictatorial leader” part needed turning into a committee. The other is a reminder of the Catholics who were an ‘out of control’ power center for centuries. (Per the video – really ‘the audio’ as the image is static, the Catholic Church was finally ‘brought under control’ via slow infiltration. Given the recent Papal endorsement for Global Warming there is circumstantial evidence for some ‘coordination’… so running with the meme…)

The (admittedly semi-paranoid) ‘frame’ is that the N.W.O. is doing a “take down” on those bits that need better controlling. While I could make a decent case for them being correct and moral about that, doing so would violate the theme of this particular muse, so will be held for another day. ASSUMING that the NWO is ‘nefarious’ and having it take over is a bad thing: This would imply that Islam Is A Threat. (Assad is just an out of control individual, so less important, though his citizens are connected mostly to Sunni Islam at about 74% so ought to be influenced by The House Of Saud who, one presumes, are ‘on board’ with the whole NWO thing as we keep defending them…)

I can see how that logic would run. First off, the Muslims have a history of being independent and not bowing down to the control structures from outside. Secondly, they don’t take to externally directed change much. Finally, they have a profound tendency to adhere to the Koran and NEVER accept deviation or ‘interpretation’. Hard to influence that… (Though, as in Saudi, the leadership can be co-opted – per the thesis being modeled…) So it’s not going to go well to have these ‘independent types’ running around to defy the New Authority… Add to that the point that if Iran DID succeed in getting nukes it would be “way out of control” and season it with the point that if they DID wipe out Israel (as I’m pretty sure they could do, technically) there would be no “New Ulster” in the Middle East. That could have all of Islam turning to look at the REST of the world, and upsetting a certain well planned apple cart…

Now, while I personally have no desire to EVER live under Sharia Law, and would be quite happy with an “Our Side – Your Side; live and let live” world: That would never be acceptable to the kind of Control Freak that wants to found a world dominion of Central Planned Control. So we can take that idea out of the ‘mental model’. That leaves “Let Iran/Syria run to their own completion” or “The Takedown”. Letting it run to completion would be a last resort “damage control” solution. (“They” never give up, but are skilled at strategic retreat then envelopment). It would take decades, perhaps even a century to recover from that path. So the “Take Down” would be the preferred model.

OK, now “play it forward”. IF there is a ‘take down’, followed by a UN Occupation, followed by a fully UN compliant ‘interim government’ for a few decades, with massive “education” campaigns; then you have evidence that fits the NWO model. IF there is no ‘take down’, OR, it is followed by a non-central-control aftermath, there is evidence contrary to the model.

Furthermore, the notion that folks would risk nuclear war and a Jihad with all of Islam implies that the stakes are high. Very High. The necessary consequence of that conclusion is that Islam is a significant threat to the New World Order (at least, the particular parts of Islam in question). That, then, leads to an odd unexpected end point:

Islam is Freedoms Last Best Defense against the New World Order.

Oh Dear.

So Think About It

Please remember that this is a ‘thought experiment’. NOTHING in it is reflective if me, my wants, needs, aspiration, person, or wishes. (It likely has some reflections of any limitations in my input data and ability to imagine, unavoidable for any simulation ‘playing it forward’).

Though it might raise interesting questions about the kind of person who thinks such things from such inputs, that’s not the bit I’d like to ponder.

BOTH images “fit the known facts” (at least, those known to me). Both an “out of control nutcase Dictator Assad and Crazy Nuke Hungry Ayatollah” image fits; AND a “NWO Needs To Do A Take Down” model fits.

SO, the questions:

How to choose between them? Where is Occam when you need him…

What further evidence would help?

Is there some other last best hope after Islam?

IS Islam the last best hope for Freedom from the NWO?

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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53 Responses to Islam: Freedom’s Last Defense?

  1. It’s unfortunate that the term “New World Order” got sucked into this; it’s not what that term originally meant.

    The progressives who are creeping toward a totalitarian government have been tolerating and often explicitly aiding the forces of jihad. Israel’s formation, winding back decades through the interminable League of Nations meetings, was in spite of the progressives, not orchestrated by them. Our progressive rep in the UN walked out when he heard that Israel had become a country. So did much of our staff at the UN.

    The progressives believe, evidently, that jihadists will help them overthrow the freedom-loving West, most particularly the the US. They seem to think that they will then be able to deal with the jihadists as no more of an issue than they think of the the “mild” Tea Party. I think they are wrong, but they seem to have a Gleickian idea of their own competence.

    The jihadists, too, think they can simply slaughter the leftists after getting rid of us. We shall see if they get this far — because I think they are determined to push the issue to some final resolution.

    A hypothetical global conspiracy, as inept as one would have to be to account for the facts, might rile up the independent spirit in time. But I think that this spirit is on the way to revival now, and that this will ultimately put paid to the progressives.

    The US experiment is a grand and noble one, and it is not done yet.

    ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle

  2. George says:

    I guess it’s fine as long as freedom of religion isn’t one of the things you are counting as freedom. I can think of many freedoms that Islamic governments will not allow people. Freedom to have a beer, for example. Only non-Muslims may partake in many countries. The penalty is some hideous punishment out of the last millennium.

    Islam is fundamentally a weak religion as it apparently can not exist in presence of the non-pious. It also appears to not be so much based on the fear of God as on the fear of man where some individual human will come around playing God and beat you with a stick for not being in Friday prayers.

    No thanks.

  3. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    “Looking to the Bible or Koran for answers about the universe is like watching ‘Tron’ to learn how a computer works”– Edward Rogers.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1285332/Follow-Islamic-way-save-world-Charles-urges-environmentalists.html

    It doesn’t make sense to accommodate Islam when it doesn’t accommodate us?

    Try visiting Saudi or Iran with a bible and see what happens..

  4. xyzlatin says:

    Out of the Jewish faith which had existed for centuries in the Middle East two large breakaway groups formed, Christianity 2000 years ago, and Islam 1300 years ago. So what is this idea that somehow Israel and Jews are a “plant” in the area? They and their religion were there first.
    The largest Muslim nation in the world is not in the middle east, it is Indonesia, with more than 200 million people. Wherever Islam gets a majority in a country, it subjugates all those who are not muslim. It is the most successful military idea ever invented, cloaked in a disguise of being a religion. It has been going for 13 centuries and is still the source of trouble all over the world. When you hear the term “ethnic troubles” look closer. It is almost always Islamic militarists trying to lord it over everyone else. However, with our politically correct media, you never hear this. There is huge strife going on in Egypt with the approx 15 million Copts being aggressively pushed around by the muslims.
    Islam will wipe out any other world order eventually by process of breeding. Europe demographically has had it.

  5. E.M.Smith says:

    @xyzlatin:

    The “planting” refers to the creation of the State Of Israel by the UN. Prior to that act, there were Jewish people, and Palestine. One must go back many hundred years to find a prior “Israel”. At the time, one of the places suggested for “planting” Israel was Uganda, IIRC. It was NOT a ‘done deal’ that the nation of Israel would end up in Palestine… (Historical Jewish Homeland or not). And clearly it worked to rile up the local Arabs…

    @All:

    In this ‘thought experiment’ I’m not suggesting “Global Islam”, only that a vital Islamic World would keep the New World Order somewhat ‘in line’ and occupied so the rest of us could eek out some freedom.

    Basically, you can’t have World Domination as long as 1 Billion and a large swath of the oil rich world is out of your control.

    Or, more compactly: “The enemy of my enemy of my friend” might apply to Islam. (IF there is a New World Order group – not just a progressive philosophy. Yes, the “paranoid NWO meme” is a presumption in this muse.)

  6. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singularity_Is_Near

    Singularity looks like it’s on schedule

  7. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    But do we really have “Freewill” ;)

  8. E.M.Smith says:

    The “freewill” video, if you listen carefully, points out the obvious (which I thought of before he mentioned it):

    That the brain activity shows a decision prior to the consciousness recognizing it just means that the PROCESS happens before the RESULT – rather like one would expect if things are to have causality… So yes, we have freewill, even if it happens at lower order brain structures and “consciousness” has a readout delay in it…

    Though what this has to do with Islam or the NWO is beyond me… ( I suspect this was intended for tips…)

  9. Ian W says:

    Interesting thought experiment that seems to fit with some of the interpretations of Armageddon.

  10. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    Probably the next step is to get everyone onto the internet. Cloud them. Then start removing the freedoms so that the same state that prevailed before was put back in place. Basically media telling everyone what they need to know without the interactivity of the internet.

    Most of the world’s population is actually Islamic. It seems more reinforced then Christianity. I think the praying the number of times a day is more reinforcing. If you go to an Islamic country, when call to prayer happens, everyone just stops in the street and starts praying. You even get woken up at the crack of dawn to start praying. It’s very reinforcing and controlling. Which is what religions are supposed to do, control the population. Christianity is more casual. Most of the western Christians sort of turn up to church when they feel like it. It also has not effected science as much as the Islam has, though in the past they did have high Science and Maths though art was limited more to geometric and stargazing more to religion connections then free thinking.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vienna If this battle was not won, we would all be Islamic. They are two completely different systems Islam and Christianity and they have clashed all through history. Though there have been areas where they have coexisted for some period, like Turkey and Spain in particular for certain time periods. Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Spain

  11. david says:

    Well yes, I see this thesis, that the two will “get along” only as long as they are mutually assured of working together to harm their common enemy. the “great satan” AMERICA, those capitalist clinging to their guns and religion. And make no mistake, a constitutional republic with separation of church and state, and limited Govt. power is fundemetally opposed to both Islam, and progressive statist.

    But yes, the problem for the two becomes how to get to really be the more equal pig “power” behind the scenes, instead of the other group that wants to be the more equall pigs. And Islamist do not have popular elections, freedom of speech, etc, but do have “sharia” slavery, religious rule, etc. so they will never work for long with progressives, but try to turn the “Arab Sping” to their favor. So I see the Islamist here playing the progressives, and genuinely nervous about it all, but certainly, in the end the progressive one world atempts are creating conflicts with irreconcilable fellow Islamic statist.

    But think of China and Russia, how far would they let the one world progressives get in their ambitions? I suspect not much further then the Islamist, and they have far more military power to bring to the table. These european progrissives are nuts, thinking they can unite the world in some green enviromentalist utopia.

    The problem with all central power statist systems, be they Islamic Facist, European Progressive, Comminist China or Russia, is simply expressed in an adorable sexy way in this one minute video. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdaylV6FVCiE&ei=m5VLT6WaB8_diAKOt-XbDQ&usg=AFQjCNF6kdM2cezb-tAfKhUHANNDG_ApuA&sig2=ufQG_WKJSY4-Uvn4L4UYZQ

    keith DeHavelle, great comments, and I think yu will like the above link

  12. R. de Haan says:

    Islam is Freedoms Last Best Defense against the New World Order.

    No way, “we the people are the last defense, nobody else.

    The doctrine of Islam is just as bad as a NWG

  13. Thank you, E.M. for this thought experiment.

    I have not watched the video, but I agree with your logic: “IF there is a New World Order and it is out to control the world by all the nefarious means in the video (and elsewhere) then what it fears is made visible by what it attacks.”

    That logic, although not verbalized, helped me see that Climategate emails and documents released in Nov 2009 were only the latest in a four decade effort to obscure quantitative information on the origin, composition and source of energy of the Earth-Sun system.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/Climategate_Roots.pdf

    That logic also helped me understand Dr. Peter Gleick’s attack on the Heartland Institute and his alliance with the American Geophysical Union and the US National Academy of Sciences – institutions that actively obscured quantitative information on the origin, composition and source of energy of the Earth-Sun system at the AGU National Meetings in Washington, DC in April 1956 and April 1976.

    1956: http://www.springerlink.com/content/n556224311414604/
    1976: http://www.omatumr.com/archive/StrangeXenon.pdf

    Thus recent events described in AGW denier’s blogs are following the same pattern of strange events in the past, including the effort to hide xenon isotope data from the 1995 Galileo probe of Jupiter:

    The NWO (New World Order) is “out to control the world” and will not admit that every atom in the world was formed and that life is sustained by nuclear forces that NWO failed to grasp and cannot control: Neutron Repulsion:

    2012: http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1102/1102.1499.pdf

  14. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: It is obviously a “sinful thought”, but if we consider “values”, as the natural laws imposed on us; tradition and symbolism, as the knowledge of those laws transmitted from old times (which would of course include the jewish Kabbalah tree, a particular way of representing such laws), and the explicit secular character of the world conspiracy which began with the french revolution, we will arrive , ALMOST, at the same “sinful thought” as you: The Islam being one of the last resources of faith, understanding “faith” as the relation of man to “perennial philosophy”, much more if the Roman Catholic Church it’s a religion that fully participates in the secularizing conspiracy (being afraid of losing power&money), as it was demonstrated in december 2009, when 24 hours before the closing of the Copenhagen Climate Summit, the Pope goes out to say the “every good christian should sign the Copenhagen Agreement”, which was falling apart in pieces, after “Climate Gate”. However, Russians say, that the Orthodox Church is that last oasis of faith, and proclaim that Moscow is the “Third Rome”. All this it is not just words, as the fight between “evil” and “good” began more than two thousand years ago, between official religion “agnosticism” and “gnosticism” (the affirmation that it is possible for man to know who he is, where he is and his role in the cosmos).
    But we observe a distinction between “conspirers”, being secularists and atheists and the rest, including in that rest of people, not only the faithful islamists (as the Sufis, for example) but also the religious jewish (as Khabbalists, for example) and, as I said all those christians, orthodoxs and also non orthodoxy but who separated themselves from the machinations of power by the official church.
    So, the Armageddon field is already marked.
    During the second world war, Hitler wrongly accused all jewish people; now we know that only a few of them, those not following its own tradition (Shekhiná (שכינה ), better known as lenders, bankers or ponzi schemers, are supposedly part of the conspiracy for a “new world order”. We must remember that they have managed to concoct an ad-hoc “philosophy” as that of Jerome Ravetz´s “Post Normal Science” and the “Precautionary Principle”( see:http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/09/climategate-plausibility-and-the-blogosphere-in-the-post-normal-age/#comments )

  15. Jason Calley says:

    @ E.M.

    Ack! A painful thought experiment, indeed! How to choose between a modern feudalism or an Islamic theocracy?

    “What further evidence would help?”

    By the way, my apologies for any inaccuracies in this post. I am multi-tasking at the moment and do not have the opportunity to do close research, so am writing this quick post from recollection. My gratitude for any corrections…

    I have suspected for some time that the motives for conflict have included a banking connection. Here are some of my possible reasons:

    1) As recently as 2000 there were still seven nations that did not have predominantly Western owned central banks, with the owners being primarily the Rothschilds, the Warburgs, the Rockelfellers, the Morgans, the usual international bankers. Those banks were: Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Libya, Iran, Cuba and North Korea. Notice how the list has grown smaller. Today, only Iran, Cuba and North Korea remain.

    2) Islam still retains the concept of gold, or gold backed money as part of their religious precepts. The Koran states that certain obligations, such as dowries and donations to the mosques must be in hard assets or their equivalent. No fiat currency.

    3) Several of the Islamic nations have attempted to move from the use of US dollars for oil sales into gold alternate payments. Iraq under Hussein, Libya was either already resolved to change or was seriously discussing it. Iran has already begun changing.

    3) Several Islamic nations have been discussing the creation of a pan-Islamic gold based money. Quadaffi was attempting to set up such a money system for Africa. I seem to remember recent (a couple of years ago) discussions on the subject in Indonesia and among the various Arab states.

    Money… and yes, power, but the two are so often impossible to separate. In fact, the lawful authority to issue fiat currency is the ultimate blending of the two, money and power. Islam stands in the way of that.

  16. George says:

    I think what really needs to happen is a reformation of Islam. From what I see of it looking at it, they seem to empower themselves to act in God’s stead and give themselves the power to mete out God’s law yet without taking into account that they themselves are fallible and are capable of misinterpreting or misapplying that law.

    Another major thing that bothers me, and bear with me a bit on this as I generally avoid religious discussions with others. Muslims, Jews, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. Maybe God uses ways to reach people that are culturally within their understanding. The Jews believe their Messiah hasn’t come yet. Some Shiite’s believe the Mahdi is just around the corner. Muslims believe it was Mohammad who showed them the way after they had strayed. It was Jesus who apparently struck a chord with the Greeks and Romans and brought the God of Abraham home to them. The problems we seem to have among these religions is based on human egos and emotions and not on any specific teachings of God.

    The Muslims demand that everyone hold the notion that Mohammad was the primary of all prophets and that the Qur’an is the highest word. And I don’t mean to take anything away from that because I believe that is the truth … FOR THAT CULTURE. And it is JUST as true that Jesus was also the highest prophet FOR THAT CULTURE. They were both messengers of God who were able to get through to the people of that particular place at that particular time and accomplish the mission of bringing people back to the God of Abraham. I am not convinced that one is superior to the other in a global sense because they are both from the exact same source for the exact same purpose and for one to smite the other is to do an insult to God. It is the people that have the problem, not God.

    So while we have had people killing each other over the centuries in an argument about whose messenger one should hold highest, we are missing the overall point. If EITHER ONE of those paths brings you to God, then it has served its purpose and done what He set out to do. The people of the various books of the word of God are to respect one another as it is exactly the same God we are worshiping but the story has been told in a slightly different way to different cultures so that they might gain the more fundamental underlying understanding. The problem we have is when PEOPLE take it upon themselves to attempt to force understanding on people with physical threats. I believe it diminishes them in the eyes of God. To ACT pious is not to BE pious because it is what is in one’s heart that matters, not in the clothes that they wear or the habits they do or do not have. We see what amounts to projections of people’s own various insecurities in many of the more strict disciplines.

    For example. Maybe it says one should not drink. So does a human being running around physically assaulting people who are found drinking make that person more pious in the eyes of God? I don’t believe so. And if there is no opportunity to drink (no temptations) how can we see who is strong of heart and belief? In order for there to be good, there MUST also be bad. In order for there to be righteousness, there must also be wickedness else we have no way to see it. To hide evil is to also hide good. If every woman who is dressed even the slightest bit immodestly is harshly punished, does that make her more modest or does it simply make her ACT more modestly?

    This is why I said that Islam acts as if it believes it is a weak religion. It acts like it is afraid of temptation because it is afraid its religion can not stand up to it. What I believe is that these are the actual insecurities of individual human beings manifesting itself as harsh treatment in this physical life. A religious person sees something immodest or immoral. Maybe that person has an obligation to enlighten the other about what they are doing and why. Maybe they are afraid that if one person “gets away” with it, others will do the same and the society will suffer moral decay. But there is another approach and that, believe it or not is the path of Jihad but in the more traditional sense of your internal struggle against what is right and what is wrong, not in the sense of killing everyone who doesn’t believe as you do.

    As there must be night in order to appreciate the day and sun in order to appreciate the rain, there must be temptation and wickedness in order for there to be good and pious people. So to severely punish people for not presenting an appearance of piety is not doing anyone any favors. It certainly doesn’t score any points with that person with God, in my opinion. God knows what is in that heart. And being afraid of immorality or immodesty and covering it up by managing external behaviors doesn’t give one any particularly good standing with God, in my opinion.

    So I believe that the purpose of Abraham and Moses and Jesus and Mohammad were all the same. It is all the same God. And various inspired words have been given to people in various places in ways they could understand in that place at that time and that does not, in my mind, diminish the words given to someone else in another place at another time. The way it was delivered to me might not be the best way to deliver that message to someone else at a different time in a different place and to force them to abide by one culture’s very literal interpretation and cultural traditions may make no sense and may actually have the opposite of the intended result. It may make people in their heart come to resent a God that they might otherwise have come to embrace and not through any actions of that God, but through acts of men projecting their own position onto those of others.

    What I see these days is a lack of respect in Islam of the people of the other “books” of the very same God and that should be enough to bring sorrow to the hearts of any true believer.

  17. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: “They”, if they really conspire, are being childish. I would give them a small task before they pretend to govern the whole world: Just START BY GOVERNING THE CLIMATE and MAKE IT WARMING!
    Of course, you may say, these “kids” can make a lot of harm, having a big paraphernalia of deadly “toys”, but they don´t control life either: So as soon as they kill one “enemy” 666 will be born…..LOL!

  18. P.G. Sharrow says:

    The New World Order was created on September 17, 1787 with the idea, and a Contract for government, that free men could rule themselves without the help of kings, popes or tyrants. The progressives have misused and circumvented that document until many of them claim that it no longer is a valid contract.

    Three groups around the world are in an uneasy conspiracy to seize control of the “free” people of the world under one structure that each plans to control.

    The progressives feel that they have won control of the most powerful country in the world and therefor they are in control of the final solution.

    In the Islamic world everyone is armed and dangerous but sort of under control of the clerics.

    The Americans are armed and dangerous and under no ones control save themselves. The progressives fear the American people most of all. It is necessary for the progressives to prove to most Americans that they are traitors to the American dream and must be erased from the body politic.

    It is up to the Muslims of the world to deal with their clergy as the Christians did with theirs 200 years ago.

    Central control is the old way of doing things, it always fails in the long run.

    The Oligarchs think that they can control everything from behind the curtain to maximize their income and power. Everyone knows that these are just criminals and can be eradicated when they are no longer useful.
    Have faith my friends, The internet is the key to pulling the teeth of those that would work in the shadows. The “Tea Party” peacefully demonstrated the size and strength of the real people of this country and the “Occupy People” demonstrated the “not strength” of the progressives in this country.
    Prophecies for this period is that the brothers of the north unite and put an end to this conspiracy and the new age will begin. pg

  19. E.M.Smith says:

    @S.P.:

    “Most of the world’s population is actually Islamic.”

    Um, I think it 1 out of 6 (billion). Nowhere near “most”… Perhaps you meant “largest single religion”? (but that rests on not doing islamic sects and breaking christianity into sects…)

    @David:

    Love that video (and the movie, the dozen or so times I’ve seen it ;-)

    But yes, that’s sort of the problem; that the central power takes liberties not allowed to others, then all sorts of problems ensue (rather like in the movie… sleeping with the enemy et. al…)

    While pondering this piece, I also thought of Russia and China. Per the Video (which I suspect most folks didn’t listen to, to the end – where it touches a bit on global warming and other bits) China is a creation of the NWO folks as a central control model; so I couldn’t place them ‘in opposition’…

    For my part (ignoring the video): China ALWAYS plays for China, never for anyone else. I’ve worked closely with Hong Kong Chinese and Mainland Chinese for many years. (The first as a partner for about a decade the second as a V.P./Boss for a year or so). They are VERY adept at agreements that do not agree, at cooperation that is self dealing, at supporting your advance but not ‘taking point’ and coming to your aid when most advantageous to them. Realize that is NOT a complaint. Just “facts needed” to have it work well. (If you allow for that, you will have a ‘reliable’ partner. If you are slightly the same, you get respect and better support… show you ‘know the game’ and still play for MUTUAL gain with you just a little favored, you can almost be accepted… Always smile and be polite…) So I was thinking: Just how much is China a great Socialist Progressive Success and how much is it China “agreeing” while it wins?

    Similarly, Russia was “on the ropes” as Communism collapsed. It HAD to agree. Russia is quite good at agreement when trapped. But has always planned in the back room for Russia… Putin is playing an interesting Chess Game of building Russia, building Russian Power, maintaining HIS control posture, and apparent cooperation with the west (mostly on things that do not threaten him or Russian Power). The question there being “How much of the ‘cooperation’ is just moving to control the center of th board by not attacking strength?

    So I could make a very nice case for a Russia / China “failure to comply” with the NWO once they have the maximal share of the world available taken.

    In fact, in my ‘inner model’, I see an EU / Russia and a USA / China face-off happening sometime soon. Not sure exactly when and over exactly what, but suspect that the current ‘tussles’ over who controls Middle East Oil might be the trigger. We’ve also got some rather large coordinations between Russia and China happening – such as on rail shipments and energy for manufactures – so I’d not put out of the possible a Russian-Chinese agreement to “share” Europe and Asia…

    What would the NWO folks do if a Russia / China block said, oh, “No, you can not bomb Iran or Syria” and proceeded to “share” all the space from Poland to Thailand? (China getting the ‘Ickystans’ up to the border with Iran for direct oil pipelines, Russia taking “Syria North” for gas piplelines, dividing line somewhere around Kazakhstan.) The EU is left substantially dependent on Russia and China for energy and ‘stuff’. USA is left with the most violent and unstable parts of the Middle East as “clients” who are not so sure of our ability to defend. Middle East oil is threatened (and with just a nudge, shut off) and we have “the logistics tail from hell”…

    I’d not be at all surprised if, in The Great Game Redux, Russia did not let the UK win and was just playing for position…

    But that scenario depends on Russia and China not being co-opted into the NWO control structures and violates the premise of this muse… (even IF, looking at the board, it’s what I see as most likely. Russia and China have been playing this game ‘for keeps’ for hundreds of years. We are puppies in comparison…)

    @Adolfo:

    Some very interesting points… “Religion Writ Large” too… (Oddly, I’d encouraged my kids to follow their Mother in a more religious path precisely for the reason that I thought it would make them more “resistant” to some of the nonsense in the world – just had not packed it so neatly as I would now… so acting on an understanding before ‘deciding it was’… hmmm… shades of that ‘free will’ sidebar above ;-)

    So somehow we need to image which religions are “co-opted” and which ones are “tamed”… Might be why the “Religious Right Wing” is vilified. With ANY random person able to open a Church and preach freedom and self determination and God’s Sovereignty you have an ‘out of control’ space… Watching for ‘consolidation’ of protestant sects would be a ‘clue’ along with attempts to restrain freedom of religion… (IF Romney gets the presidency, one might wonder if the Mormon Church was already ‘controlled’ or if it’s just ‘dependable enough’ after the Feds whacked it back in the 1800’s…)

    Wonder where other religions would land… Don’t know enough about Hindu to know how they react to NWO type ‘cont
    rol’. Buddhism accepts anything… wonder if that might be part of why it’s shown favorably in popular media?

    @Jason Calley:

    Yes, a rather rude thought, elbowing it’s way to the table of the mind…

    Very interesting observations about banking. Then we have the guy that was issuing Liberty Dollars that were clearly NOT US currency being found guilty of “counterfeiting” as he was simply proposing folks use his metal disks for currency in parallel with US $. Not counterfeit at all, but a replacement…

    So “Follow the banking control” and “Watch who controls the money supply” are key points. With “Who gets whacked by whom” for proposing hard money non-central control medium of exchange as a specific flag…

    That might also explain why The House Of Saud has been so consistent in NOT using other than USD for oil trades. They are ‘connected’ and at a minimum know what would happen to them. (At worst are part of the decision structure… )

    From the “What? Crazy Talk!” department that would connect with the relatively recent change by the Masonic Order to what books are sworn upon. It HAD been a Bible – Old and New Testaments and they added a Koran as one of the three books… so Masonic Conspiracy Theorists can figure out if that coincides with post 1975 “conversion” of the House Of Saud to being pro-western…

    As the Saudis have regularly asserted THEIR control of the center of Islam, there are two possibles: 1) The House Of Saud are ‘on the team’ and it is an attempt to tame Islam through them. 2) The Saudis are “playing for position” for true Islam and are planting Wahabi sects all over the glob, playing along with the NWO while “Going Chinese” as they play Russian style chess… Hello Islamic World being their goal.

    Hmmm….. Decisions decisions…

    @R. de Haan:

    It sure looks to me, though, like “We The People” are rather effectively controlled, channeled, limited, and penned; with more of ‘we the people’ strengthening the pen every day…

    So while I’d RATHER have a “We The People” take back liberty moment; I don’t see any indications of that trend. I do see a strong trend of Islam being “in the face” of the UN / Central Authority / NWO group… So maybe “We The People” ought to be cheering them a bit more and dropping bombs on them a bit less?

  20. E.M.Smith says:

    @Jason:

    Oh, and both Venezuela and Ecuador have left the World Bank IIRC, so you might want to check who owns their banks… and watch news flow about “weapons of mass destruction and illegal drug lords ;-) ”

    @P.G. Sharrow:

    Unfortunately, every time I read Revelations I can’t figure out ‘who is whom’…

    I could see the 10 Crowns meaning the EU… (or maybe 10 Royal families of the old Europe?), then Gog and Magog have reasonable translations – one or the other of them being Russia IIRC. But where does the USA come into it? And ‘who’ is Islam? And what about a Nuclear India? I think there are still some loose ends… (Maybe India stays on the sidelines? Safe place to hide investments from nuclear destruction?…)

    At any rate, it is a bit spooky how the parallels run… and I’m not looking forward to “The War at Megiddo, Israel” – Armageddon… even if it is supposed to lead to 1000 years of peace…

    Wonder if a legal case could be made that “Licensing to practice” was “the mark of the beast” and violated the Bible? Hmm…

    I think I need to re-re-re-read Revelations, and look in more detail into the early years of The Progressive Movement and it’s earlier roots… Often the early writings ‘tip the hand’ more about what beliefs a movement holds central…

  21. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/europe/11muslims.html?pagewanted=all

    The difference with Islam compared to Christianity, is that Islam is so serious about itself. If you look at the time of the Inquisitions in Europe and the middle ages, Christianity was very serious then. But over time in Europe and the West, Christianity has had the separation of state, and there are more and more casual Christians and non believers in the society. Islam is more serious, you poke any fun at it and it just erupts. Islam still has medieval connections between church and state, especially in the middle east. Look at Afghanistan at the moment, a few books burnt and its all out of control. One cartoon and there are death wishes all over the place. On the other hand we can bag and make fun of Christianity and nobody really gets upset. It’s just a totally different system. So on one hand super respect has to be given one way, but is the respect reciprocated?

    The only other problem is a lot of world’s energy seems to be concentrated in the Islamic world. Otherwise we would just leave them alone and the Middle east would be similar to Africa, but much dryer and simpler.

    On top of this we have the global communications system the internet, which in the end may assimilate the world’s cultures into one. But will the Islamic world change theirs?

    So the main games now are Iraq (which probably has more oil then Saudi) and Iran (which also has heaps of oil, as government oil doesn’t produce much compared to real companies). After that Africa will come into play, and there will be lots of games to play there.

    http://www.bullnotbull.com/archive/gold1980.html

    The question now is, will there be a mega spike in Oil/Gold again like the 1980s if the Iran war starts?

    Seems like the stage is now set. And the question will be, will EU use an Iran war to distract from their collapsing system of debt (Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugal/Ireland)

    Syria’s central bank frozen

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/eu-to-freeze-assets-of-syrias-central-bank-to-pressure-regime-to-end-violence/2012/02/24/gIQAhe6zXR_story.html

    Tankers not insured

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-26/eu-s-iran-sanctions-curb-asian-insurance-for-crude-tankers.html

    EU in trouble now, not as much oil from Iran

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sara-vakhshouri/the-coalition-against-ira_b_1303715.html

    Gas up

    http://www.tehrantimes.com/opinion/95873-sanctions-on-iran-hike-gas-prices

    And USA upset as Iran/Iraq was getting oil paid in EU when the $US was the global currency.

    China on the other hand is always for itself and loves money. But it’s always internally looking and prefers to do deals then use force externally.

    As a side comment, you know what I find weird, countries like Ecuardor that use the $US as their currency? Where do they get it from, do they just ask USA to print it for them and deliver it ?

  22. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    “Proof that the NEW WORLD ORDER has been planned by the elite. Robert Welch, Founder of The John Birch Society, predicted today’s problems with uncanny accuracy back in 1958 and prescribed solutions in 1974 that are very similar to Ron Paul’s positions today. This is proof that there are plans in place by the elite to systemically disassemble US sovereignty. I wonder who those elite are.”

  23. ecuamantis says:

    We’ll find out soon enough how well orchestrated this elite group of psychopaths are. Next year on August, 2013 the 100 year charter for the Federal Reserve System in the U.S. goes up for renewal. There’s too many people that know what’s going on with the Fed to allow that charter to renew. So the question is: will the bankers orchestrate a world-wide financial catastrophe to then offer a solution that includes a new world govt. and new world reserve currency? If so, they will have to collapse the world economy within a year.

    Sit back, grab your popcorn and watch the show. This year and next promise to be a wild ride ;-).

  24. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: Not so problematic to choose what religion: It is about what it is called the “perennial philosophy”: All the knowledge is everywhere to see if you can see, and it is found in every Religion (with R caption): Tradition is lost and unknown among sects. Free masons call it the “missing word”: at least they know that they don´t have it. However: It is and it was out there all the time. We just don´t see it because we reject it!

  25. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Scarlet Pumpernickel (21:46:16) : That´s what a decent person is. But your America has already died with him. The then ruling class in every country has been made to disappear.

  26. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @EMSmith; Not sure I would put too much faith in “Revelations”. Three years at the hands of the Sisters of Our Lady of Fatima made me strong skeptic of anything connected to religious doctrine. Although “The last battle a Megido” strikes me as a skirmish whimper and not a great battle bang!
    I read all kinds of prophecies and try to fix them to reality. Some are easy, some are difficult and others are just too dense for me to penetrate. Like you I see cause and effect, the present is just the current part of the flow of history. Nostradamus said, Even if you know the future, you are not permitted to alter it. When you “see” a vision it is from your point of view and you have to explain it to others that may not have your life experiences or even be of your time and language.

  27. adolfogiurfa says:

    An alternative economic scenario for you there, it would be as the one we lived it in Peru in 1990: A big devaluation, to “fix things up” and be “responsible” (which complies with “their” idea of a more modest USA) of the dollar; so your currency would survive. All you have to do then, if you are warned in advance by @E.M. statistics, to buy the principal food provisions for a 6 months period. Usually things begin to be adjusted in such length of time. Things will fix completely in two years and growth will restart again.
    This will happen after Europe devaluates.

  28. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    Looks like they will use Iran to divert the attention of the collapsing EU? “The New Word Order” at the moment really is just the Corporations running the show instead of the people/constitution.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/27/wikileaks-emails-indicate-stratfor-discovered-israel-already-destroyed-irans-nuclear-facilities/

    “I think this is a diversion. The Israelis already destroyed all the Iranian nuclear infrastructure on the ground weeks ago,” one intelligence official wrote in an email dated November 14, 2011. “The current ‘let’s bomb Iran’ campaign was ordered by the EU leaders to divert the public attention from their at home financial problems. It plays also well for the US since Pakistan, Russia and N. Korea are mentioned in the report. ”

    The UN “New World Order” is basically the most dangerous, as they have the craziest ideas. As it hides behind “we help people” then on the other hand the basis for starting wars or shafting people with monetary means eg the IMF/World Bank.

  29. E.M.Smith says:

    Heard on the news today that 60% of Germans were against new Greek Bailout and that EU Stresses were building between German and Greece with Germany “offering to loan” a few dozen Auditors to the Greek Government…

    So the lender of last resort to Greece is getting Really Grumpy and suggesting maybe a bit of a “friendly audit” German Style, while the people of Germany are getting PISSED.

    They also noticed that a Boatload Of Rich Money (yes, it’s a weak pun on the Greek Shipping magnates…) left the country and dodged taxes.

    Somehow I don’t think this is going to end well…

    Meanwhile, on the nightly news, Greece continues to have demonstrators in the street while (some agency I’ve forgotten) announced they were putting Greece into a “constructive default” category based on (something obscure about how the loans were / were not being serviced).

    And at least one Greek article claimed that Germany still owed them more than has been loaned just as a repayment of the “Forced Loans” extracted by the Nazi Government, but never repaid…

    So anyone want to start a ‘betting pool’ on when the Euro Zone has the final SHTF moment? And ought it be in weeks, or days?…

  30. Scarlet Pumpernickel says:

    What About Bilderberg?

    [What about it? It’s YOUR point you are trying to make… -E.M.Smith ]

    [Putting ‘the point’ response here to avoid 4 or 5 SP posts in a row. -E.M.Smith ]

    My point is that there is a sub structure for the New World Order. It started with the system of Bretton Woods. There is an “order” because otherwise nobody would go to work. And there are ways to play this system to make money in certain ways. Nothing has really changed since Medieval times. The class system still exists.

    Even the UN is a total joke as well, there seems to be no point to it really.

  31. Jason Calley says:

    @ S.P.
    The video you link to above, “The Money That Is Sold Abroad Is You”, is one of Stephan Molyneux’s best. Anyone who wishes to get a clear and brilliant exposition of basic anarchist philosophy (and I say this even though I am more of a natural-rights minarchist, myself) should definitely visit Stephan’s web site. http://freedomainradio.com/

  32. Jeff Alberts says:

    @george : “The problems we seem to have among these religions is based on human egos and emotions and not on any specific teachings of God.”

    Well, the real problem as I see it is that there are no teachings of “God”, only teachings of humans purporting to be divinely inspired. I can’t make that leap of faith. They’re just more attempts to control people.

  33. George says:

    Jeff, I was speaking from the point of view of a believer. The problems between the believers of different stripe isn’t due to God, it is due to people’s own egos and vanity. They would wish their religion to be superior among others.

  34. I’m not certain, George, that this is fair
    The “original Qur’an” contains
    Quite explicit instructions. What’s there
    Is enough to cause that theory pains

    When Muhammad was just starting out
    “Early Qur’an” (Medinah) was mild
    He’d few followers in his redoubt
    It was “get along time” and soft-styled

    (Now, he raided caravans and was hated,
    And did things that we’d call untowards:
    There weren’t many religions created
    By a guy who was quite good with swords)

    So when he took on Meccah and won
    He was quite quickly feeling his oats
    And the Qur’an, once soft, had begun
    With the killing of humans, not goats

    With the Bible, it worked in reverse:
    The New Testament dialed harshness back
    And the calmer new covenant verse
    Moderated the earlier tack.

    But in either case, these are the books
    That are still guiding people today
    Different people can give different looks
    But there’s still what the sacred texts say.

    I am not of religion myself
    Thus I “don’t have a God in that fight”
    But both books are well-read on my shelf
    And to say they’re the same seems … not right.

    ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle

  35. xyzlatin says:

    Islam is a political system dodged up in religious clothes. Control is by the weekly Friday prayers for men at the mosque which all must attend. Control is also by the law that once you become a Muslim, you cannot leave on pain of death. There are many muslims in hiding all round the world (google them) who are terrified of being found out.
    A favourite way of getting converts is to rape a Christian woman and claim she has agreed to become muslim and is now your wife. She cant leave or she will then be killed. For more details of horrific crimes being done around the world by the Islamic political system, see the wonderful website the religion of peace. com. Since 9/11 Islamists have carried out over 18,000 deadly attacks all around the world.

  36. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Scarlet…That video about the UN: It is not about the many in there, it is about their masters.

  37. david says:

    Regarding George (20:52:39) :
    —————————————————————————–

    George, in a general sort of way I agree with you. I like your pointing out the insecurity of Islam. In a facebook conversation with my daughters socialist friend, he stated
    …” one of the best “cause” books i’ve read was Jihad Vs. McWorld by Barber. just to be clear, he blames nothing on Islam and goes out of his way to identify fanatical religious sects all over the world, ….“that’s also not to say he “blames” religion at all; he actually blames economic policy (in the U.S. especially) that facilitates a new kind of cultural imperialism resulting from the unintended consequences of globalization.

    My response was…
    No reasoned person can attack Christian extremism voraciously, and, seeing the same flaws in Islamic extremism, fail to point out that it is Islamic extremism, which far more then any other CURRENT religious form of extremism, is creating massive problems in the world. (However any author that points out the evils of radical Islam is likely to invite a fatwa on himself, so this could account for the authors extreme caution but hardly makes for an accurate “cause“ book)
    Also the author is in effect saying that because of the fanatical hypersensitive nature of radical Islam, to even expose them to western ideas is “cultural Imperialism”. It should be abundantly obvious that to any extremist group, as well as to any dictatorships, allowing “subjects” free exposure to alternative points of view of both religious and social economic structure would be anathema. To say that no form or version of Islam could ever tolerate such basic rights is perhaps a disservice to Islam, and if not then confrontation with today’s practice of Islam is unavoidable.

    Your conception of Islam as currently struggling to overcome dark age mentality “jihad external” both violent and stealth, is based on rational observation. I think it is fair to point out that structuraly “Sharia” law, is anathema to the US ideal of separation of church and state, and I really think this is part of the Islamic worlds distaste for the US.

    At the Chautauqua Institution in New York, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf stated: “Seven centuries before the Declaration of Independence was written Shari’a Law was intended to protect life, religion, property, family and mental well being. This is why I assert that America is in fact a Shari’a compliant state”. As soon as I read this I was even more against the mosque being built in New York on GZ. The Imam avoids mentioning that Islamic Shari’a, in word and form as practiced allows, among other ruthless tenants, to beat women to discipline them, greatly reduced inheritance for women, raped women to be considered guilty of adultery if they cannot produce four witnesses to the rape, severe restrictions on music, special tax on non-Muslims, stoning to death for many crimes, and Sharia also still sanctions slavery. It is curious how different people have different ideas of what protecting life, religion, property, family and mental well being consists of.

    This is not to say that the idea of Sharia as an internal struggle to overcome the dark side of human nature in holy battle, is not the view of many Muslims. That view is the view that must win in the schools of Islam and in the culture of the Arab world if Islam is to ever be compatible with other cultures.

  38. George says:

    I think it is fair to point out that structuraly “Sharia” law, is anathema to the US ideal of separation of church and state, and I really think this is part of the Islamic worlds distaste for the US.

    I don’t think that is really the case. There are plenty of Muslim countries that have had secular governments over the years or monarchies. They do have a clear separation of church and state. What we are seeing these days is rather new. Go back to the 1970’s in Iran, for example. Or even Egypt. Heck, look at Lebanon before the problems with Israel started. The Jews were Lebanon’s “Irish” in many ways. They staffed the police. They had a reputation for fairness and generally were less susceptible to bribery. Iran had a huge Jewish population, so did Egypt. There were many different Christian sects in the region, too. What we are seeing today is NOT the historical norm. There has never been the meddling by holy men in government in the past (with the exception of Saudi Arabia for very unique reasons as it is the center of the religion) to the extent that there is today.

    It is simply a power grab. You have a group of people who are basically political thugs and are attempting to use religion as a way to gain political and thereby economic power. The theocracy has gained control of Iran’s oil production, for example. It is currently agitating in the Emirates and elsewhere. They want to gain control over Libyan production, too. What we see right now is a corrupt group of religious folks who smell money and want to use the people’s religion to get their hands on that money.

  39. adolfogiurfa says:

    @George (18:25:34) : Just forget your induced daily nightmare about Muslims and, I promise you, scared kids, they won’t appear again to haunt your dreams.

  40. George says:

    I don’t have any fear of Muslims. I have a fear of a few “clerics” using their religion to gain political power. I like Muslims just fine. I don’t like corrupt clerics.

  41. George says:

    I should add “of any religion”.

  42. R. de Haan says:

    @E.M.Smith (21:14:14) :
    @R. de Haan:

    “It sure looks to me, though, like “We The People” are rather effectively controlled, channeled, limited, and penned; with more of ‘we the people’ strengthening the pen every day…

    So while I’d RATHER have a “We The People” take back liberty moment; I don’t see any indications of that trend. I do see a strong trend of Islam being “in the face” of the UN / Central Authority / NWO group… So maybe “We The People” ought to be cheering them a bit more and dropping bombs on them a bit less?”

    My views:
    1. The silent majority of we the people are just waking up.
    What’s encouraging to me is the fact that despite billions of US dollars promoting the “scientific consensus” on climate change have resulted in a massive victory of the skeptical blogs in the US, Europe, Australia and New Zealand.
    See: http://cbullitt.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/hey-warmers-hows-this-for-consensus/

    2. 2012 is an election year in the US, everything is possible

    3. We have absolutely nothing to expect from Islam.
    Without any exception all countries subject to the much heralded Arab Spring have adopted to Radical Islam. Freedom, democracy and Islam are not compatible.

    4. In Europe the strategy of mass immigration of people with an Islamic background has resulted in the failure of the political correct Multi Culti Society.

    When gaining political power, Islamic parties directly undermine our freedoms.

    In the Netherlands for example an Islamic party has proposed the ban of dogs in the city centers.

    Don’t touch the Dutchies dogs.

    The people of Europe are FED UP with Islam and the troubles many of them cause.

    As for bombing Islamic countries I agree with you.

    We should let them fight their own wars stop NATO assisted Government change. The same goes for Africa and the Persia.

    Just let them cook their own potatoes.

  43. R. de Haan says:

    By the way, the people are also fed up with the EU, their own political establishments licking the boots of the EU apparatchiks, the bail outs, the never ending wall of directives and regulations and the state propganda.

    People know exactly what’s going on and they are not going to take it any longer.

  44. david says:

    George (18:25:34) :

    David says…
    I think it is fair to point out that structuraly “Sharia” law, is anathema to the US ideal of separation of church and state, and I really think this is part of the Islamic worlds distaste for the US.
    =====================================

    I don’t think that is really the case. There are plenty of Muslim countries that have had secular governments over the years or monarchies. They do have a clear separation of church and state…
    ===========================================================

    George, if they had separation of church and state they were not true Sharia, (As taught in Arab universities throughout the middle East) because Sharia, is the state, the law, along with the other nasty things I mentioned. Muslims of of one sect or tribe have been killing each other for almost as long as Islam exisits. This may have something to do with some nations striving to not favor one groups version of sharia, over another, trying to keep some peace.

    The majority of Muslims teach that Islam has three sacred texts: Koran, Sira and Hadith, the Islamic Trilogy. The Sira is presented by most as Mohammed’s biography. The Hadith are considered his traditions—what he did and said. Sira and Hadith form the Sunna, the perfect pattern of all Islamic behavior. These two texts preach an intense and violent version of Jihad and are the basis of Sharia.

    In Islamic belief as taught in Arab Universities,the Quran and Sunna (this includes the Sira and the Hadith, ) constitute a perfect way of life and social and political organization that God has set out for man. Islamic governments MUST be based on this system and EVENTUALLY unified in a Caliphate, or Islamic governmen

    George, you are correct that the Islamists have grown in power and prestiged within the Arab worlld. Stayed Qutb, the author of one of Islamism’s most important books, “Milestones“, which calls for the restoration of Islam by re-establishing the Sharia and by using “physical power” or Jihad, for abolishing the organizations and authorities of the Jahili system, which he believed to include the entire world, including the current Muslim societies. Jahiliya, narrowly interpreted as the Arab world before Islam, is considered a state of ignorance. By Islamist extension it means the state of anyone not following Islam and the Qur’an and the Hadeeth. Use of the term “jahili” for modern Muslim society is usually associated with Qutb’s other radical idea “Outbism” namely that reappearance of Jahiliyya (falling back to pre Islamic times) is a result of the lack of Sharia law, without which Islam cannot exist; that true Islam is a complete system with no room for ANY element of Jahiliyya; that all aspects of Jahiliyya (manners, ideas and concepts, rules and regulations, values and criteria) are “evil and corrupt”; that Western and Jewish conspiracies are constantly at work to destroy Islam. Sharia is the opposite of separation of church and state, with the Islamic Caliphate and Sharia as the only state which all Islamic extremist desire to establish.

    My personal view is that Islam , like all religions, is subject to being hijacked by evil power hungry people, as evil as Marx, or Mao, but wearing the dress of religion. However the Sira and the Hadith were written shortly after Islam started, and so the hijacking within Islam was early, powerfull, and more deeeply embedded into the religion. There are reasons they are still stuck in the dark ages, reasons indemic to the structure of Islam.

  45. david says:

    R.D, Haan, thanks, a lousy translation of what appears to be a good article.

    A sub-heading for this post could have been, “Islam, tyrannies last best defense against itself.” If that had not been in a form of civil war with themselves for most of these centuries, they would have been far more dangerous, and Israel would be no more.

  46. adolfogiurfa says:

    What do you give in exchange: McDonald´s hamburgers? (BTW: THEY ARE WMDs! :-) ), Let them enjoy themselves with their “Gourkas” and all their delicacies.

  47. cm says:

    Dont worry e.m. it’ll never happen(the Muslims setting up a World Government that is),we’ve got the best weapons. :-) Besides,the PTB have a sort of humanism/naturism one world B.S lined up for us.
    Years ago when i turned 18 i asked my father about the “mysteries and conspiracy theories” involving Masonry(he was a Mason and wanted me to join).His answer was that “the only mystery is that human’s love mysteries and that some people don’t seem to understand that the Rich want to stay Rich”. I think he was right on the money with that statement.
    Some folks still insist that the moon landing was faked and after reading some of the J.F.K ones, it would be easier to ask “who didn’t didn’t kill J.F.K?”.
    Conspiracies do exist and always will exist.Too many have been exposed to deny that their are no conspiracies,but i have trouble accepting the theories of the folks that think they’re all part of some grand plan though. IMO It’s just lots of greedy,pragmatic people grabbing as much money and power as they can by whatever means available to them.
    There’s a book called “The Robber Barons” on the website “scribd” that is basically the story of how the people like Morgan and Carnegie made their monopolies then set up their Trusts to ensure their dynastic lines would stay at the top of the heap forever.I think this is a pretty fair representation of how TPB have always operated.
    Conspiracy theories are like big join the dot pictures .You can get any picture you want depending on how you link things together.
    You should read Robisons “Proofs of a Conspiracy” if you haven’t already as this is THE book that most conspiracy theories owe their birth to.You’ll never think of Bonnie Prince Charlie and Tartan the same again.:-)Robison was a Monarchist,most of the conspiracy folks usually forget to mention that bit.
    It’s an old book so you can get it at “Project Guttenberg”.

  48. david says:

    Mahmoud Abbas’ Hamas/Palestinian Authority (PA). is to recieve from US tax payers 545 million this year, 150 million of which is for military needs.

    http://www.zoa.org/sitedocuments/pressrelease_view.asp?pressreleaseID=2157

  49. Pingback: Can Islam And Democracy Coexist? | Living History

  50. Pascvaks says:

    Thoughts-

    I tend to take history in big chunks and try to make sense of it in general terms. I have to pinch myself and remember that people are basically pretty much the same, but they’re capable of great variety. The ‘People Spectrum’ is about as big as the population and capable of growing or shrinking, as time, or nature, wills. Another point about our favorite subject, we forget, we rarely remember, we usually don’t give the other guy credit for brains, we think now is the best it’s ever been, and we think that our way is the only way to a better world. Pinch! Pinch!

    Whenever I’m given a choice I tend to imagine other choices. If so and so is about X and Y and the choice is between the two, I tend to back up and find ways to insert other matters. My wife think I’m always finding fault or being argumentative. It ain’t that, I just don’t like either or’s. She still doesn’t believe me;~(

    The NWO is something someone has defined. I’d probably give a rather quick summary execution to anything that didn’t feel right about their definition. I like to read tea leaves as well as anyone, but if the subject is not “All True” it’s False; or at least to me, VERY INCOMPLETE if I‘m being kind. (The old T-F Test rule from way back;-)

    The NWO definition in question comes under attack (by me) as being too narrow, and therefore FALSE, and like AGW assumes, supports, explains ‘actions’ that are not reasonable or justified (to me). The NWO may be someone’s tea leaf but I can’t swallow this cup of tea without gaging; it’s missing a lot of something that essential in my book; some je ne sais quoi kind’a thing.

    If Islam is the world’s last best defense against the NWO we’re screwed, is my first reaction. Is Islam in my world? No it ain’t. I live in North America, and while there are some muslins in N.America, Islam is an other-world bunch of mumbo-jumbo I don’t understand or care to understand as part of the mix in my ‘inner-circle’ at this late date in my life. Sorry, Islam you just don’t register on my Richter Scale; not the slightest blip or wiggle. As a ‘defense’ against an ‘offense’ from a bunch of left-wing idiots with an overdose of Paul the Apostle and his disciple Karl, Islam is a wash in the West. It’s too Arab, too off-world, too middle ages, too authoritarian, too mumbo-jumbo, too Paul, too Marx, too yesterday, not hip, can’t jam, won’t swing, can’t rap, and just too too besides; and that’s just a touch of the bad stuff. Now the J-C-M Ethic (whatever that turns out to become someday when some decent person condenses the Koran down to it’s essentials) has a fair chance I think. Can’t imagine there’s a whole lot of difference between it and the Judeo-Christian ethical dos and don’ts.

    How about the NWO theory? No, nothing there. Kind’a like Islam, AGW, Jewish humor, Spanish word order, 1,000 year old eggs, and a few million other things I can think of. Nope, Nadda! Like Islam, the NWO is another ‘other-world’ philosophy that I won’t buy in this lifetime. Neither fit my concept of what is likely to happen. On a personal, academic basis, they both seem to have life spans measured in years, not millennia. Both will morph, in my opinion, into future things quite different than their present manifestations; or what the current ‘leadership‘ will recognize shortly. As neither holds much value in my opinion, they and their futures –or non-futures– are neither ’good’ or ‘bad’ to me. Will one or both of these have some ripple effect on human development? Yes! Will it/they be significant? Depends on where you stand. The closer you are the more the effect. I’ve been around lots of artillery, never got a scratch; can’t hear too well, but never got a scratch.

    Is chaos order? One could think that rather than toward order the West is moving toward chaos and the NWO is a simple attempt (and I do mean ’simple’) to save the West from Chaos. Is Islam a salve or balm that can save the West from chaos and the NWO? Wouldn’t think so, not really. Is China “Up” and America ’Down’? Maybe. What’s that have to do with Islam? Is national power money and money national power? Sometimes. I’m really missing something in the ‘NWO v. Islam’ case. Can an Orange save an Apple from rot? Can a special, quickie Apple Balm save an apple from rot, or only hasten the process? Seems when the fruit is bad you need to pick another; when the tree is bad, you also need to pick another.

    If the West is falling, can it be saved? Likely not. What to do? (Explain your answer in no less than 4 BlueBooks or you’ll not pass this course;-)

    a. Move to the Middle East.
    b. Move to India.
    c. Move to Africa.
    d. Move to China.
    e. None of the above.

    Note: the Correct answer is e. None of the above. No one likes a loser. Best to stay where you are and get by as best you can. No doubt you don’t have long to live in any case so don’t waste your energy and time trying to swim anywhere else just to die among strangers. If you have the strength to swim anywhere, rebuild your civilization with bricks and not with straw or sticks like your ancestors did before you.

    As I said earlier, I balk at restrictions. But if it’s an either/or or the grave, I’ll gamble on NWO. I’ve made my peace with God and don’t need to go back and start from scratch again on that issue. Besides, I was never good at learning a new language, especially with someone pointing a gun at my head; and like Patton, I think I once fought in a few wars of yesteryear, so nope, no more Crusades. I think I’ve already died on both sides of the battlefield a few times in God v. Allah.

  51. Thank you, E.M. and all those above, for your comments on this thought experiment.

    They catalyzed a conclusion to strange happenings in government science since 1971 – that seemed perfectly obvious – but only after I got there!

    I posted it elsewhere and will only repeated the essentials below:

    http://anhonestclimatedebate.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/weather-forecasting-is-obviously-not-professor-tim-flannerys-forte/#comment-6455

    The Climategate emails and documents released in late Nov 2009 – and the strange responses of world leaders, leaders of the scientific community, and leaders of the news media to the revelations – confirm the social engineering project adopted during the Cold War to end nationalism and Unite Nations against a common enemy: Global Climate Change.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/Climategate_Roots.pdf

    This noble and united effort to avoid the threat of mutual nuclear destruction and convert the world population into one single peace-loving, community – guided by consensus post-modern science and politically-correct attitudes was

    1. Exposed in Climategate emails and documents in late Nov 2009;
    2. Confirmed by the war on Islamic nations (“terrorism); and further
    2. Confirmed by the responses of leaders of nations, the scientific community, and the news media to Climategate emails and documents

    This conclusion would not have been possible without the time, talents and work that E.M Smith and a few other brave souls devoted to unraveling the Climategate mystery.

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