An Ancient European Culture Rediscovered

Yes, I’m “catching up” a series of things that have stacked up… I’ve decided to just ‘knock out a few’ so I can get back to doing some work on the Fiction Piece without feeling like I’m neglecting the other stuff…

There is a narrative about how history unfolded. That narrative has been violated in several places and several times, including that 12,000 year old Göbekli_Tepe. Personally, I’m pretty darned sure there was an old civilization living in central Sahara prior to the Egyptians. That the Egyptian Empire bursts on the scene fully formed is highly suspicious. There are some old stones in Egypt from a lower layer that have no hieroglyphics on them. The Egyptians covered everything in hieroglyphs. Egyptologists hand wave them away as being below grade or an underground unimportant structure. They also ignore that the structure near the Sphinx is unengraved and that the erosion patterns in the rock surround of the Sphinx could only have been water eroded that way over 10,000 years ago when the climate was rainy there – speaking of ‘climate change’…

The European Narrative holds that things there evolved starting circa the time of the old Greeks and Celts (before that being some kind of nondescript tribal pastoral nothing…). But turns out that isn’t true. There was a fairly advanced civilization that preceded them.

There’s a wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_culture

The Varna culture belongs to the late Eneolithic of northern Bulgaria. It is conventionally dated between 4400-4100 BC cal, that is, contemporary with Karanovo in the South. It is characterised by polychrome pottery and rich cemeteries, the most famous of which are Varna Necropolis, the eponymous site, and the Durankulak complex, which comprises the largest prehistoric cemetery in southeastern Europe, with an adjoining coeval Neolithic settlement (published) and an unpublished and incompletely excavated Chalcolithic settlement.

294 graves have been found in the necropolis, many containing sophisticated examples of copper and gold metallurgy, pottery (about 600 pieces, including gold-painted ones), high-quality flint and obsidian blades, beads, and shells. The site was accidentally discovered in October 1972 by excavator operator Raycho Marinov. Research excavation was under the direction of Mihail Lazarov and Ivan Ivanov. About 30% of estimated necropolis area is still not excavated.

The findings showed that the Varna culture had trade relations with distant lands, possibly including the lower Volga region and the Cyclades, perhaps exporting metal goods and salt from the Provadiya rock salt mine. The copper ore used in the artifacts originated from a Sredna Gora mine near Stara Zagora, and Mediterranean spondylus shells found in the graves may have served as primitive currency. The discontinuity of the Varna, Karanovo, Vinča and Lengyel cultures in their main territories and the large scale population shifts to the north and northwest are indirect evidence of a catastrophe of such proportions that cannot be explained by possible climatic change, Desertification, or epidemics. Direct evidence of the incursion of horse-riding warriors is found, not only in single burials of males under barrows, but in the emergence of a whole complex of Indo-European cultural traits.

I note that we’ve seen the pattern of periodic climate catastrophes many times in the ancient records, so this is just more of the same old natural cycles and periodic Bond Event type collapses. That the populations moved “north and north west” is telling and suggestive of who these folks were, given that we know who shows up later in the “northwest” from there. In particular, there is the “5.9 kiloyear event” that would have been just about the right timing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.9_kiloyear_event

The 5.9 kiloyear event was one of the most intense aridification events during the Holocene. Its name refers not to an event spanning 5900 years, rather occurring 5900 years ago. It occurred around 3900 BCE, ending the Neolithic Subpluvial and probably initiated the most recent desiccation of the Sahara desert. Thus, it also triggered worldwide migration to river valleys, e.g. from central North Africa to the Nile valley, which eventually led to the emergence of the first complex, highly organised, state-level societies in the 4th millennium BCE. It is associated with the last round of the Sahara pump theory.

Note they say ‘the first’ but have to qualify it with a lot of “highly organized, state-level” in the 4th millennium BC. Still not willing to recognize that Egypt was NOT some holy grail birth of all things civilized… just the one that built the largest stone monuments to itself… and to the kings it let control it.

Historically the period of the 5.9 kiloyear event is associated with the increased violence noticed in both Egypt and throughout the Middle East, leading eventually to the Early Dynastic Period in both the First Dynasty of Egypt and Sumer. James DeMeo and Steve Taylor suggest that this period is associated with the rise of patriarchy, institutionalised warfare, social stratification, abuse of children, the development of the human ego, separation from the body, the rise of anthropomorphic gods and the concept of linear historic time

And I would speculate it caused the Varna culture to move on up northwest and into the future Celtic areas. IMHO to get away from those folks doing “patriarchy, institutionalized warfare, social stratification,”… etc. What is very clear, though, is that significant climate changes have happened in the past, without any human cause, and will happen again for the same reasons.

Yet these folks had so much gold that they buried several kilos of it as ‘grave goods’ while things were working well. Prior to the 5.9 kiloyear event. It was a prosperous culture.

There is a very nice photo gallery of the artifacts here:

http://www.amvarna.com/eindex.php?lang=2&lid=2&slid=&slid=1

Some of the goods made it to America a few years back:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/science/01arch.html?_r=3

A Lost European Culture, Pulled From Obscurity

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Published: November 30, 2009

Before the glory that was Greece and Rome, even before the first cities of Mesopotamia or temples along the Nile, there lived in the Lower Danube Valley and the Balkan foothills people who were ahead of their time in art, technology and long-distance trade.

I just have to point out (you can see this coming, I’m sure…) that the area in question is very close to what were later Celtic areas… You can see some old Celtic coins from the Danube Valley here:

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/celtic/danube/i.html

But who knows. The newly discovered culture was from ‘way back’ and it’s hard to say what later culture they might have evolved into, if any. There is a ‘slide show’ of photos of artifacts here:

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/11/25/science/112409_ARCH_index.html

Some of the metal work is vaguely reminiscent of some Celtic work, but not clearly so (and simple metal work tends to look similar in any case…) however the pottery looks a bit like some old Greek pottery, so who knows. I suppose it is possible that it is an old enough culture to have been a precursor to both. One ceramic looks like a model of a multi-story apartment block. There are bracelets made of metal spirals and a shell necklace, along with many female figurines (which may imply a female Goddess as such figurines were often made for such rites – per traditional archeology).

The caption says:

“Bodrogkeresztúr Culture, Moigrad, 4000-3500 BC”

So we’re talking about 6000 years ago. Yet that 3500 BC date is 5500 years ago. That’s a full 400 years after the Bond Event. Clearly there’s a discrepancy between the wiki dates – 4400 to 4000 BC – and this page; so also some room for these folks to have arisen either due to the Bond Event sending folks north, or due to the area becoming more prosperous as their neighbors to the south and east “had issues”. As dating things accurately and reliably to a couple of hundred years can be difficult, it will likely be a while before we can sort out exactly how the 5.9 kiloyear event impacted these folks.

For 1,500 years, starting earlier than 5000 B.C., they farmed and built sizable towns, a few with as many as 2,000 dwellings. They mastered large-scale copper smelting, the new technology of the age. Their graves held an impressive array of exquisite headdresses and necklaces and, in one cemetery, the earliest major assemblage of gold artifacts to be found anywhere in the world.

The striking designs of their pottery speak of the refinement of the culture’s visual language. Until recent discoveries, the most intriguing artifacts were the ubiquitous terracotta “goddess” figurines, originally interpreted as evidence of the spiritual and political power of women in society.

New research, archaeologists and historians say, has broadened understanding of this long overlooked culture, which seemed to have approached the threshold of “civilization” status. Writing had yet to be invented, and so no one knows what the people called themselves. To some scholars, the people and the region are simply Old Europe.

Here we have it starting “5000 BC” or about 7000 years before present. Then running for 1500 years, to 5500 BP. That’s 400 years after the Bond Event date. But perhaps there was a bit of a recovery after the actual event.

For some reason, all of the earlier of these arid events (including the 8.2 kiloyear event) were followed by recovery, as attested by the wealth of evidence of humid conditions in the Sahara between 10,000 and 6,000 BP. However, it appears that the 5.9 kiloyear event was followed by a partial recovery at best, with accelerated desiccation in the millennium that followed. For example, Cremaschi (1998) describes evidence of rapid aridification in Tadrart Acacus of southwestern Libya, in the form of increased aeolian erosion, sand incursions and the collapse of the roofs of rock shelters. The 5.9 kiloyear event was also recorded as a cold event in the Erhai Lake (China) sediments

A “partial recovery at best” is better than nothing. Frankly, I’d be more willing to believe that the dating is not precise enough to have both events known to within 200 years. Much more slop than that and you can’t say if one ended before or after the other. Or perhaps it just took a few hundred years out of the ‘millennium that followed’ for things to finally get dry enough to collapse.

Then there is that statement about them not knowing how to write.

Personally I think it’s a ‘conclusion too far’ to say “Writing had yet to be invented”; for all we know these folks were quite able to write, but did so on unfired clay or on leaves (as early Sanskrit was written) or other materials that do not survive in damp conditions. Or, like the Celts, they could write but just didn’t do it much…

I do feel compelled to point out that a culture not prone to writing things down (much) and with a veneration of women (perhaps with a matrilineal social order?) and doing a lot of early metal working sure sounds a lot like a Celtic style… but we just don’t know.

Although excavations over the last century uncovered traces of ancient settlements and the goddess figurines, it was not until local archaeologists in 1972 discovered a large fifth-millennium B.C. cemetery at Varna, Bulgaria, that they began to suspect these were not poor people living in unstructured egalitarian societies. Even then, confined in cold war isolation behind the Iron Curtain, Bulgarians and Romanians were unable to spread their knowledge to the West.

These folks have been known for a while, but not much in “the west” until more recently.

The story now emerging is of pioneer farmers after about 6200 B.C. moving north into Old Europe from Greece and Macedonia, bringing wheat and barley seeds and domesticated cattle and sheep. They established colonies along the Black Sea and in the river plains and hills, and these evolved into related but somewhat distinct cultures, archaeologists have learned. The settlements maintained close contact through networks of trade in copper and gold and also shared patterns of ceramics.

That same Black Sea area is where the old Slavic people started their spread too. As Slavs are R1a and Celts are R1b as common types (each with some of the other too) for Y chromosomes, those two groups are related (at least as of about 10,000 years before this old cultural group showed up, and perhaps much later, as a mutation split does not immediately result in a split of cultural members). So perhaps these folks were the ancestors of the Slavs rather than the Celts (or maybe both.)

Over a wide area of what is now Bulgaria and Romania, the people settled into villages of single- and multiroom houses crowded inside palisades. The houses, some with two stories, were framed in wood with clay-plaster walls and beaten-earth floors. For some reason, the people liked making fired clay models of multilevel dwellings, examples of which are exhibited.

A few towns of the Cucuteni people, a later and apparently robust culture in the north of Old Europe, grew to more than 800 acres, which archaeologists consider larger than any other known human settlements at the time. But excavations have yet to turn up definitive evidence of palaces, temples or large civic buildings. Archaeologists concluded that rituals of belief seemed to be practiced in the homes, where cultic artifacts have been found.

Perhaps we ought to tell the archaeologists that having a ‘doll house’ is a common toy and likely was in the past, too… So a “clay model” is different from a ‘toy’ how? They also don’t seem to realize that for some folks, like old Celts, their ‘temple’ was the forest and you don’t need ‘civic buildings’ when you have an egalitarian culture of individual choice. In the Celtic tradition, anyone could call for a war, and if the cause was just, folks would join. Distributed, voluntary, and egalitarian. No need for “palaces” nor “civic buildings”. They have a Roman mindset blinding them to other cultures and norms… Though later they did find some grave goods that indicated some folks were more wealthy than others. No surprise there.

The household pottery decorated in diverse, complex styles suggested the practice of elaborate at-home dining rituals. Huge serving bowls on stands were typical of the culture’s “socializing of food presentation,” Dr. Chi said.

I think someone needs to explain to these “researchers” the idea of the “Party Bowl”… It’s not a “dining ritual”, it’s a party. I think they need to get out more ;-)

Yet it is puzzling that the elite seemed not to indulge in private lives of excess. “The people who donned gold costumes for public events while they were alive,” Dr. Anthony wrote, “went home to fairly ordinary houses.”

And maybe visit Brazil during Carnival…

The article then goes on to all sorts of fanciful things about the “Venus” figurines made in a “Stylized way” without heads. Now maybe it’s just me, and having played with a “Mr. Potatohead” too much, but isn’t it just possible these were fired clay dolls with, oh, stuffed cloth heads, or leather? Those being much easier to paint on the complex features of a face? Yes, it’s a fanciful interpretation, but no more fanciful than the stuff they assert with no evidence…

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3425932.0.html

Has what looks like substantially the same story:

The little-known culture is being rescued from obscurity in an exhibition, “The Lost World of Old Europe: the Danube Valley, 5000-3500 B.C.,” which opened last month at the Institute for the Study of the Ancient World at New York University. More than 250 artifacts from museums in Bulgaria, Moldova and Romania are on display for the first time in the United States. The show will run through April 25.

At its peak, around 4500 B.C., said David W. Anthony, the exhibition’s guest curator, “Old Europe was among the most sophisticated and technologically advanced places in the world” and was developing “many of the political, technological and ideological signs of civilization.”

Dr. Anthony is a professor of anthropology at Hartwick College in Oneonta, N.Y., and author of “The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World.” Historians suggest that the arrival in southeastern Europe of people from the steppes may have contributed to the collapse of the Old Europe culture by 3500 B.C.

At the exhibition preview, Roger S. Bagnall, director of the institute, confessed that until now “a great many archaeologists had not heard of these Old Europe cultures.” Admiring the colorful ceramics, Dr. Bagnall, a specialist in Egyptian archaeology, remarked that at the time “Egyptians were certainly not making pottery like this.”

A show catalog, published by Princeton University Press, is the first compendium in English of research on Old Europe discoveries. The book, edited by Dr. Anthony, with Jennifer Y. Chi, the institute’s associate director for exhibitions, includes essays by experts from Britain, France, Germany, the United States and the countries where the culture existed.

I note that the arrival from the steppes sounds a lot like the Tocharian area where we saw redheads in tartan cloth being buried…

The story now emerging is of pioneer farmers after about 6200 B.C. moving north into Old Europe from Greece and Macedonia, bringing wheat and barley seeds and domesticated cattle and sheep. They established colonies along the Black Sea and in the river plains and hills, and these evolved into related but somewhat distinct cultures, archaeologists have learned. The settlements maintained close contact through networks of trade in copper and gold and also shared patterns of ceramics.

Hey, Barley! Wonder what they did with their barley… FWIW, the ancient texts from Sumeria talk about making beer, so it was known in about that era… That article also has a nice illustrated map in it showing how they see the culture migrating, though there doesn’t seem to be any reason to think it came through Turkey from what is written.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3963/popup.jpg

It looks like they place the dates and path based on the arrival of farming as a technology, yet evidence for farming is very poorly preserved from early sites (wooden tools not lasting well in wet areas). I could easily see farming traveling a separate path and with separate timing from the actual people. The Japanese did not migrate from California just because they have iPhones and use laptops… I could easily see a migration from the steppes of Asia via Ukraine (as it was rather warm 6000 BC) and with agriculture arriving later (or just not being well evidenced). Or, heck, these folks were big on copper working, maybe they just let other folks do the farming and specialized in trading metal good for what they needed.

Where this puts us now is that there was a culture with ‘apartment blocks’ and living a good life with parties and food, dressing up and making fine metalworks, 6000 years ago. In Europe. 6000 years before that, in Anatolia, there was a culture making very large and fine stone monoliths carved with animal figures. A bit later than the first group, we have folks in Britain and throughout Celtic France making large monolithic stone works too. They all liked to party, and a leaning toward matrilineal and / or egalitarian societies and did fine metal working. Oh, and made decent beer from barley.

To me, it looks like a pretty clear pattern. No, not enough evidence to prove much at all, but still, the pattern is there.

At any rate, the ‘dawn of European Civilization’ is now 6000 years ago. Ancient Egypt was not alone. The Pre-dynastic Egyptians had European neighbors to the north living the good life. Only later did the dynasties of Egypt arise, long after these folks ‘moved on’. I wonder who taught whom…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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15 Responses to An Ancient European Culture Rediscovered

  1. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: I. Velikovsky´s recurrent catastrophism could explain the eventful life of man on Earth. It seems increasingly clear that our solar system is not as peaceful as we are taught, and we are to witness it again….perhaps. (Here, another theme for you to explore!)

  2. dearieme says:

    “In the Celtic tradition, anyone could call for a war, and if the cause was just, folks would join.” It’s not often that I’ve seen “just” used to mean “potentially profitable”.

  3. globalwarmingmaybe says:

    Vinča is a small town on river Danube, not far from Belgrade. I visited it couple of times as a student, since it is location of a nuclear research institute. It is also location of one of the oldest European civilisations.
    The Vinča culture is a Neolithic archaeological culture in Southeastern Europe, dated to the period 5500-4500 BCE. Named for its type site, Vinča-Belo Brdo (White Hill), a large tell settlement discovered by Serbian archaeologist Miloje Vasić in 1908, it is thought to represent the material remains of a prehistoric tribal society mainly characterised by their settlement pattern and ritual behaviour.

  4. E.M.Smith says:

    @Dearime:

    While the Vikings were often looking for plunder, the Celts were more often not. Look up the history of it and while there were often clan vs clan wars of retribution ( i.e. Hatfields and Macoys or perhaps Campbell and MacDonald…) the big wars were more defensive. Look at the Romans in Britain and when Queen Boudica called for war.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

    Now maybe it’s just because so much of the time they were trying to fend off the much stronger and violent Romans, but they certainly do look much more peaceful and ‘defensive’ most of the time…

    Boudica ( /ˈbuːdɨkə/; alternative spelling: Boudicca), also known as Boadicea /boʊdɨˈsiːə/ and known in Welsh as Buddug [ˈbɨ̞ðɨ̞ɡ][1] (d. AD 60 or 61) was queen of the British Iceni tribe who led an uprising against the occupying forces of the Roman Empire.

    Boudica’s husband Prasutagus, ruler of the Iceni tribe who had ruled as a nominally independent ally of Rome, left his kingdom jointly to his daughters and the Roman Emperor in his will. However, when he died, his will was ignored — the kingdom was annexed as if conquered, Boudica was flogged, her daughters were raped, and Roman financiers called in their loans.

    Eventually a few Roman cities were destroyed before the Romans eventually won out.

    There’s a lot of that in the Celtic history. Not a lot of Viking like raids. (Which is likely why the culture has slowly died out.)

    The religion was generally a kind of nature worship and women were highly regarded (as evidence the Queen calling for a war and having other tribes join in, setting aside past differences.) Yes, they had their ‘not so kind’ moments ( ritual sacrifice for religion) and could be quite startlingly violent. ( The “hero’s portion” was the first cut of meat. ANYONE could claim the hero’s portion off the meat roasting in the communal lodge. If contested, you had to explain why you deserved it. If the other party did not agree, your choices were to back down, or have a fight to the death. Nominally ‘for honor’. I suspect many large tough guys abused the privilege but have no evidence for that.)

    One other side bar. They had a ‘warning of approaching danger’ where a runner would run through the hills with a large torch (mostly the Scots Celts, I think) made of crossed wood. It could be seen from far away and was a general call to common battle against an attack. Later
    this “burning of the cross” that had nothing to do with Christianity, was perverted by the KKK into another kind of cross burning. So a fine tradition was ruined.

    Note that this was not a ‘call to go plunder’ but a ‘distress we are under invasion’. For many hundreds of years they had Viking invasions. Then Roman invasions. Eventually English invasions. (For Scots and Irish Celts, the French Celts were dealing with Roman and Arab invasions). They didn’t have a lot of time to go plundering. So I can’t say if it was from virtue or necessity, but in either case, they were mostly fighting defensive wars.

    I don’t know enough about the older Celts who wandered down into Greece, Turkey, and even served under a Pharaoh or two, nor the Celts of Austria / Northern Italy. They likely had different traditions. (Being hundreds to thousands of years and many hundreds of kilometers away from each other…) When serving as mercenaries for the Pharaoh, I believe it was not a matter of someone calling for a war and voting on it, so much as negotiating a contract for services. A different tradition. The “call for a war” was specifically about having been wronged, and asking your kin and neighbors to support your claim of injury / revenge. Or announcing an imminent attack and asking for your tribe to be supported by neighbors.

    Again, see the story of Boudica for an example of what got many thousands to join her cause against superior force. Not plunder, but retribution for abuse.
    http://skyelander.orgfree.com/menu10.html
    has a pretty interesting description of many of the battles. Some, like the Greek and Roman “sackings” make it sound like evil barbarians invading for pillage, but we also have to remember that it was the Greeks and Romans who wrote those histories. We don’t know what they might have done (such as taking Celt slaves or land) to “justify” an attack. So some amount of ‘salt’ must be taken with the point of view.

    But no, I don’t hold that all Celts at all time were only Noble and Pure. Just that they had a tradition where one COULD be noble and pure and ask for an army to support your cause; and if it was found just, as was Boudica’s, would gain support. And that throughout a lot of history outside empires gave them a lot of ‘just causes’ even if many were also a ‘lost cause’.

  5. E.M.Smith says:

    @Globalwarmingmaybe:

    Interesting video. I note it says some folks think they did have writing:

    http://www.omniglot.com/writing/vinca.htm

    As I look at the proposed script, it looks like it has symbols later found in Futhark and in the Celtic inscriptions. Some also look like the Berber script symbols. (Are in fact identical). The idea that those symbols are NOT a script is, IMHO, just silly. How can the same symbols be a script in one place and not in a neighboring one?

    Oh, and when they said the ‘comb like symbols’ were often on the bottom of pots, and unlikely place for an inscription, I almost busted out laughing,. Have these dunces NEVER bought anything in a store with the price on the bottom? Simply visualizing picking up the pot and turning it over to see the bottom linked to a few thousand memories of that movement to check the price… So I’d figure they had prices marked and were sold in a shop. Gee, kind of like now…

    From inspection of the script (and from having looked at dozens…) I would speculate it’s a mix of numbers and letters with some logograms. The number of symbols is more than most languages need for syllables, but not enough for all logograms. I’d wager the systematic ‘comb’ ones the found on the pot bottoms are the numbers and the more complex ones are logograms for common words. Intermediate complexity complexity symbols being either syllables or phonemes.

    Some of it has a similarity to some of the Linear-A and Linear-B markings (the cow head like symbol, for example). It might well be a mixed syllabary with ‘letters’ for other sounds. The ‘common through history’ symbols look very much like Celtic Ogham
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham

    Admittedly a set of parallel lines or a circle with a cross in it are going to look pretty much the same in any language scripts have many similar characters. I think it looks a bit more like the Berber script for some characters:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh

    I could see a very plausible path that has it going one way to become Berber Script with the added curly bits, and another to evolve into Ogham by reduction to things easily carved as straight lines on a bit of wood or stone. ( I could also see it just being that if you are going to make a script your first ideas will likely have a lot of strait lines, circles, and things that look like stick people or animals …) Unfortunately, that doesn’t help with language decoding… scripts often move across language families.

    But I’d bet hard money that was a script, just from the look of it and compared to other known scripts.

  6. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: The religion was generally a kind of nature worship and women were highly regarded…
    It seems that all these peoples, tribes, were the descendants of a former lost civilization, which revered Isis, Ishtar, Esther (Venus), as the symbol of the “Black Virgin”, “natura naturans” (nature creating more nature), existed way before the historic mother of Jesus, being the representation of the female character of the universe, at least of its reproductive quality as a means of achieving a material immortality, a consequence of the implicit way nature, the universe/universe (Mare Nostrum=Medi-terraneum=The land of the middle=Our Mother-after Mare=Mother), has to overcome entropy: Life as “the trick” to get this, which has been represented in topology as the “Bottle of Klein”, a bottle which empties into itself, and in the figure of “Cosmos” or the “World”in the Tarot, where it has both genders, surrounded by the serpent which bites its own tail, both opposites in its movement, one after the other, establishing the current of manifestation, yang and ring, creating and sustaining life through the attraction/repulsion of opposites.

  7. p.g.sharrow says:

    @EM; your interpretation of the inscription on the bottom of a pot brought a smile. On the bottom of my offering bowels is a chop that includes a number that denotes the degree of effort in its’ creation so anyone that is foolish enough to want to buy it will know its’ value. If it took 28 hours of effort to create then it has that number multiplied by my times value. No need to for them to argue over its’ true value to me. Also makes for an impressive gift. ;-) pg

  8. Pascvaks says:

    The quality of the ‘art’ and ‘craftsmanship’ to me, at the link –
    http://www.amvarna.com/eindex.php?lang=2&lid=2&slid=&slid=1
    puts them way ahead of the people I pictured were wandering around and murdering each other with rocks and clubs at the time. I guess I’ll have to go back way back to Old Jericho and reset my imagination, starting over with imagining what life was like in the distant past. But then, if I do that, I’ll have to give those early town-dwellers in the Middle-East more credit too. People are so aggravating! Once you put them in a nice little pidgin hole they climb out, bite your finger, take wing, and squirt some poo in your eye as they fly bye-bye. We really do need to settle on one story, stick to it no matter what we find in the future, and blame off-worlders or time-travelers from the future for anything that doesn’t henceforth fit the mold. If ‘reality’ (that which we think is true;-) is always changing , then there is nothing ‘real’, right? If ‘time’ and ‘motion’ (or ’events’) are always changing the ‘facts’, then ‘truth’ is something that ‘cannot’ be realized. OK! Let’s limit the panorama and just say, there’s no true ‘history’. If what we think is true, is not, is it just a paradigm? Something we call ‘truth’ for the sake of ‘balance’ so we can cope as best we can? If someone were to say to you, “I think, therefore I am!”, would you believe them? You know something, I’m beginning to see why they always said “Life is a crap shoot.” There really is more crap in life than I ever thought there was. Nothing’s real! Nothing’s permanent! Everything changes! The past, the present, the future, it’s all a crap shoot. (Except ‘fiction’, fiction doesn’t have to change, it is what it is and everybody knows it, it’s NOT real, so it doesn’t have to change; life’s beginning to become more real to me, it’s become a lot like what I used to think fiction was; maybe there is no God and it’s all just an accident, hummmm… ;-)

  9. j ferguson says:

    P. maybe it needn’t be shot.

    btw, was it German they afflicted you with at Monterrey?

  10. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Pascvaks: Nothing’s real! Nothing’s permanent! Everything changes! The past, the present, the future, it’s all a crap shoot.
    Read: “Symbols of the Sacred Science” by Rene Guenon or just watch yourself in front of a mirror and trying to hear your own voice asking: Who am I?
    γνῶθι σεαυτόν (gnōthi seautón = “know thyself”)

  11. Pascvaks says:

    @ j ferguson –
    Let’s just say they tried. I’ve never been a ‘good’ student. (Welllllll.. not so anyone would notice;-) I tend to ‘resist’ any pressure with equal force. And I’ve got a ‘hole’ in the middle of my head, really, since my early 20’s I can’t hold onto a name for more than the time someone takes to say it, as soon as they tell me, it’s gone. I know exactly where the brain puts names. They’re probably still all there after 64 years, I have a feeling they get in (like a black hole) but once they do they disappear. That make’s memorizing things like words a little difficult. But faces, I remember faces, and music, and places, and how-to, etc. –but not names (oder dumbkaufe deutsche Worten) I’m sure there are about 29 errors in that atempt to be bi-whateverall.

    @adolfo –
    I did. Isn’t it funny! I can’t see my own voice;-)

  12. p.g.sharrow says:

    That “hole”in the head is an old friend or maybe foe. The connection of sound “names” to people or words is most annoying. I find that writing it down helps, as that is connection of a thing to a thing. In 65 years I can not grasp sound connection to letters or the words left and right to directions, although, up and down and in or out work! :-) Intellectually yes, but instinctively no. So if you tell me to put a bolt in a hole, no problem, tell me to turn it left or right and ???? I have to stop and figure out leftright. And PC word processors with spell check is gods gift to dyslexics. ;-) pg

  13. Pascvaks says:

    P.G.- Sounds like the hole in your head is pretty close to where mine is. I know you live in N.California now, ever live around San Diego? Think maybe the water does it? Or, all those Nuc Tests in Nevada during the 1950’s and 60’s?;-)

  14. vukcevic says:

    E.M.Smith says:
    31 March 2012 at 9:40 am
    …….
    Hi
    The ‘globalwarming’ thing was inserted by WordPress, no idea why.
    About Vinca script-symbol mixtures you are right. Obviously there are some signs which mutated in Greek or Cyrillic alphabets, but some are definitely symbols and they still can be found in the region.

  15. E.M.Smith says:

    @P.G. Sharrow:

    Glad the inscription idea hit a cognate ;-)

    @Adolfo:

    Only with the onset of ‘monotheism’ did we move to one “Old Guy God”…

    @Pascvaks:

    History is a story we tell to ourselves to make sense of the broken bits we know about…

    @Vukcevic:

    Thanks for the confirmation. I’d bet someone familiar with the ancient versions of the local languages could work it out.

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