Year Without A Winter

Peter has his panties in a bunch because it’s been a warm winter in the USA. As though this was unheard of. It isn’t. We just don’t have a lot of data from when it has been hot before.

I vaguely remembered a story I’d seen about the area of the original colonies (somewhere like Pennsylvania or New York) that had a very hot winter one year. My “Google-Foo” wasn’t up to finding that same story again, but I did stumble on a different one. I don’t know if this is the same year, but it is definitely a different place. IIRC, the original one had been from the 1700’s

With that said, this page is interesting in its own right. It illustrates that a “Year Without A Winter” is not unheard of in the USA, even in as short a period as a couple of hundred years.

Minnesota’s “Year Without a Winter”

The Winter of 1997-1998 will go down in history of one of the warmest ever. However, the Winter of 1877-1878 was definitely the mildest of the post-settlement era.

State Climatologist, Jim Zandlo prepared the following summary of the 1877-1878 Winter in the aftermath of another mild Winter, 1986-1987. Responding to questions resulting from that modern-day temperate Winter, Jim’s investigation shows us that nothing is new under the sun!

It is worth noting that they are careful enough to say “of the post-settlement era”. They are well aware that prior to that time could well have been even warmer, as civilization is only a very recent thing and recorded history is nothing compared to geologic history.

Farmers near Minneapolis were plowing fields until late December 1878. But in spite of the general warmth, three days with subzero temperatures in early January 1878 froze the Mississippi River in Saint Paul so that it was closed for navigation until the 28th of February. After January 7 only three days through the remainder of the ‘cool’ season would experience single digit temperatures or lower.

The “Monthly Weather Review” from February 1878 reported prairie fires in Minnesota, Dakota, and Kansas. In that same month active insects in Iowa, grasses sprouting in Dakota, and the ice cover in Duluth harbor broken up by heavy winds were all reported.

The continuing warmth of March 1878 allowed the first boat arrival in Duluth on the 17th. From research done by naturalist Jim Gilbert, Lake Minnetonka ice is known to have gone out at the earliest date on record, March 11, some 35 days earlier than its median ice-out date of April 15.

I note that this report:

Tuesday, March 20, 2012
Updated: Lake Minnetonka’s Official Ice Out Declared

The Freshwater Society officially declared Lake Minnetonka completely free of ice as for March 21, 2012.

Updated March 21, 2012 Editor’s Note: Information provided by the Freshwater Society The ice is out on Lake Minnetonka. The Freshwater Society, which…

Has it ten days later this year than in 1878.

The winter of 1877-78 while warmest of record at Minneapolis-St. Paul, was not a dry winter. The months of December 1877 through February 1878 saw 3.09 inches of precipitation. For comparison, the full record average for December through February is 2.71 inches.
Climate historian, Thomas St. Martin has painstakingly poured through thousands of pioneer era climate records, newspapers, journals, and other documents in his efforts to reconstruct the climate history of the Twin Cities. When Tom comes across a significant climatic event from that era, he prepares a special report to summarize his findings. Tom’s reconstruction of the Winter of 1877-1878 follows:

The winter of 1877-1878 — the so-called winter without a winter — was one of the most extreme and anomalous events in Upper Midwest meteorological history. Average temperatures at the St. Paul Signal Corps station were far above winter normals: 34 F in December 1877 (with an overnight minimum temperature of 45 F on 22 December), 22 F in January 1878, 32 F in February 1878 and 45 F in March 1878. As these values suggest, springlike temperatures prevailed throughout much of the winter, provoking the 2 March 1878 edition of the St. Paul Pioneer Press to comment that “….yesterday was the first day of spring, in theory, but in fact we have had the first days of spring nearly all winter….”

Unseasonable warmth began in earnest in mid-December with two weeks of abnormally high temperatures, including readings in the 50’s F at the St. Paul station on 21-23 December. The 22 December 1877 edition of the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported that, as a result of this stretch of warm days (and nights), the “..bottom is said to be terribly out of roads in different localities….” (a condition no doubt similar to that experienced during March and April, the time of year when the area’s then unsurfaced and/or unimproved roads were normally disrupted by the annual spring “break-up”). The same edition, in a moment of editorial flippancy, quipped “….down with storm and sash and up with mosquito bars..” On 23 December, the Pioneer Press noted further that “…frogs and spotted snakes are now found hopping and crawling around marshes in the vicinity….” and, on Christmas Day 1877, reported that the Mississippi River at St. Paul was “…clear of ice..”

News and editorial comments continued a similar theme throughout the winter: “two or three sleighs ventured to make their appearance on the streets yesterday, but the snow is altogether too thin and they looked lonesome…” (6 January 1878); “..a disposition of snow was observed yesterday morning, but the commendable attempt was soon frustrated by the June temperatures…” (15 February 1878); “….notwithstanding the patient and persistent snowfall of yesterday. sliding vehicles were not out in heavy force and the sleighing was not worth bragging about…” (17 February 1878); “….sleighing is played out again…” (18 February 1878); “…river ice begins to look porous..robins have made their appearance and are hopping about on farms near the city…if the robin only knew it, he made a bad blunder in leaving Minnesota this winter…” (20 February 1878); “…young blades of grass are showing up above ground…” (28 February 1878); and “….the winter of 1877-78 is gone…we’ll ne’er see the likes again…not what might be called a cold day from first to last…” (1 March 1878).

Nor were newspaper commentaries limited to conditions observed in the St. Paul area. The 10 February 1878 edition of the Pioneer Press included a report from Bismarck, Dakota Territory stating “….that cavalrymen of Miles’ command left Koegh in shirtsleeves…”; that roads in that area were “disagreeably dusty” and that the “…ice harvest [presumably referring to the Missouri river] is nearly a failure…” And, on 2 March 1878, Elder Ely, a Pioneer Press correspondent from Winona, gave a detailed account of his area’s experiences during the winter of 1877-78. Among other things, he noted “…it has now been said for the thousandth time that this has been a strange winter…such a one has never been seen by the oldest inhabitant….no snow to speak of…not a single vehicle of any kind seen on runners in Winona during the entire winter…for the last sixty days, the surface of the ground has been dry and dusty at least one half of the time….honey bees came out of their hives to work…the last day of winter was as mild as May….buds on the maple trees are beginning to swell….” Ely also noted that the demand for winter clothing was low and the fuel bills were “cut in half”. He also reported that there was “open water for steamboats until the 10th of January” and that “…river ice which is normally 20 to 24 inches thick was only 12 inches thick and lasted for only a month…”

Interestingly, the March 1878 record clearly indicates that NO snow fell during that month, thereby making it one of only two snowless Marches in the entire St. Paul record (with the other recorded by Smithsonian observer A. B. Paterson in 1860).
The winter of 1877-78 followed an autumn that, despite an unusually warm September (64 F), produced generally normal temperatures (47 F in October and 33 F in November 1877). The summer of 1877 included a cool June (64 F) and a warm July and August (both with average temperatures of 73 F). May 1877 was warm (62 F), April was near normal (46 F), March was cold (24 F) and February 1877, like February 1878, was abnormally warm (32 F). Like the winter that preceded it, calendar year 1878 was generally warm. Although May 1878 was cool (55 F), most of the other months of the year were warm, especially July 1878 (75 F) and November 1878 (39 F). The annual average temperature was about 49 F, making 1878 one of the warmest years ever recorded at a St. Paul station. Precipitation during 1878 totaled about 23 inches, a value well below the long term St. Paul average of 28.3 inches.

I’m going to keep kicking around search terms for a little bit longer to see if I can surface another place / time. Others can try this too (hint! hint!) though the phrase “year without a winter” turns up a lot of 2012 as the propaganda machine has been busy.

I did find one hint of another ‘year without a winter’, but little detail. Normally I’d search it more too, but I’m trying to catch up some other posting topics, so I’m going to be a bit lazy on this one… for now.

And considering that 1931-32, known as “the year without a winter,” was in the early stages of the drought that caused the Dust Bowl in the Midwest and spurred on the Great Depression, perhaps it’s not a record anyone should want.

Gee, just about 54 years apart… But I sure hope we don’t have a repeat of the drought of the dust bowl era.

What I remember of the “other one” was that folks were very surprised at the lack of snow and that temperatures mid winter were in the 70s type of range. “Like summer” I think they said. But that’s a vague memory for a page long long ago, from before I cared about the whole “Global Warming” fantasy. I found it fascinating, but not important enough (then) to record details or pointers. Oh Well…

I also note that the date of this warm winter just happens to be slightly earlier than the 1880 cut off of GIStemp. Whlie Hadley likes to use 1850. I’d often wondered about that. I guess now we know… GISS wouldn’t want to start a trend line on an uptick, would they…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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32 Responses to Year Without A Winter

  1. E.M.Smith says:


    Looks like HADCrut lists it as hot there then too:

    though somehow Hadley still got the anomaly a bit odd:

    February, 1878 : The upper midwest was 10C above normal, much of Europe was 2-3C above normal. HadCRUT lists the month globally as 0.269.

    February 1878 was exceptionally warm at the majority of HadCRUT’s land based sites, yet their reported global anomaly was lower than current reported temperatures. More evidence that global temperature reporting is a complete joke.

    AND a bit more confirmation:

    2nd warmest. December 1 – February 7 was the second warmest such period in modern-day records, second only to 1877-78.

    1877-1888. Commonly referred to as the “Year Without A Winter” across Minnesota. Details below.

    Key point being that “second” part …

  2. George says:

    Thomas Jefferson wrote that the winter of 1792 was extremely mild and blamed an infestation of weevils that decimated his wheat crop of 1793 on the mild winter that didn’t kill them off but by 1795 they had a harsh winter.

  3. R. de Haan says:

    The 2012 year without a winter claim is totally BS propaganda of course.
    We all know global mean temps were below average and in decline.

    How long do we have to listen to those clowns.
    They deserve to be sacked ASAP.

  4. George says:

    This shows what was going on this winter:

    We are in an AO Negative condition, the continental US happened to be in a place where the jet looped far to the North. This means warm air was brought up from the gulf of Mexico to Chicago and the upper Midwest. On the other hand, if there had been land 400 miles West of California, it would have experienced very cold weather as it would have been in a dip in that jet. Central Europe was under such a dip and had very cold weather.

    Generally the Earth’s climate wasn’t any warmer. It was basically a weather pattern.

  5. marchesarosa says:


    1790: Mildest January on record in Philadelphia, average temperatures apparently 44 degreesF.

    “A meteorological account of the weather in Philadelphia: from January 1, 1790, to January 1, 1847, including fifty-seven years ; with an appendix containing a great variety of interesting information” by Charles Pierce

  6. sandy mcclintock says:

    … and while you guys have a year without a winter, we in Australia, have had a year without a summer. (mainly) ;)
    Is this the broad ‘la Nina’ picture?

  7. Bruce Ryan says:

    About the only thing different in the weather is the general sensitivity of the aging body. At least in my case.
    Belief structures in humans are capable of obscuring the obvious to the point the facts are upsidedown. Or more aptly, assbackwards. My only hope is that my blindness is a pleasant one.

    I know I enjoy this web site for its comments and hosts thoughts. I’m not saying this is my blindness but it is a light.

  8. Daryl Little-Smith says:

    Most interesting.

    I find the Michael Shermer’s ten point Baloney Detection Kit, very handy indeed, for sorting fact from fiction, cherries and other fallacies that often pollute the Internet.

    Text Link:-

    1. How reliable is the source of the claim?

    2. Does this source often make similar claims?

    3. Have the claims been verified by another source?

    4. How does the claim fit with what we know about how the world works?

    5. Has anyone gone out of the way to disprove the claim, or has only supportive evidence been sought?

    6. Does the preponderance of evidence point to the claimant’s conclusion or to a different one?

    7. Is the claimant employing the accepted rules of reason and tools of research, or have
    these been abandoned in favor of others that lead to the desired conclusion?

    8. Is the claimant providing an explanation for the observed phenomena or merely
    denying the existing explanation?

    9. If the claimant proffers a new explanation, does it account for as many phenomena as
    the old explanation did?

    10. Do the claimant’s personal beliefs and biases drive the conclusions, or vice versa?

    Youtube Video Link:-

    Talking about mild winter weather, any thoughts on a recent peer reviewed study in the US showing a statistical significant 71% decline of the Ice coverage on the Great Lakes between 1973 and 2010?

    Perhaps you to can find this baloney detection kit very helpful too?

  9. R. de Haan says:

    Recent solar storms pumped 26 billion kilowatts of energy into earth’s atmosphere

  10. Pascvaks says:

    @RdeHaan- you know if we could tap that 26B Kilowatts we could make a fortune, or two;-)
    Went off glooking for something and came across this TV news station article re D.C. temps, warmest winters. They were trying to answer if a warm winter meant a warm summer. Seems it doesn’t. But they have lists of the Warmest DC Winters and the Warmest DC Summers. Seems 1932 and 1890 were rather warm winters.–14709.html

  11. adolfogiurfa says:

    @ @RdeHaan- you know if we could tap that 26B Kilowatts we could make a fortune, or two;-)
    Easy, read the following from Tesla, and you will realize how to do it:

    Click to access tesla_patent.pdf

    Parts: 1) A receiver metal plate, 2) A capacitor (condenser) one end connected to the receiver plate, the other end to the positive terminal of a 3)battery, and the negative terminal of the battery connected to ground. The greater the area of the “antenna” the greater the received charge.

  12. Pascvaks says:

    Think we could retrofit the US Federal/State/Local Highway System? It wouldn’t take much more to go International; and tie in the world’s rail lines too. Tell you what. You handle the Tesla stuff and I’ll run the Capital Hill Arm Twisting and Kick Back Department. I have a feeling there’s something in this for everyone. Bet we can even get the German Greens to endorse this one. One problem, we need to keep it hush-hush, if the DOE or EPA or Unions get wind of it we’re dead (in every sense of the word;-(

  13. w.w.wygart says:

    I think we can interpret the relative mildness of this year’s winter, at least on the eastern side of the continent, as evidence of a climate system dominated by negative feedbacks – and that is a good thing. If the record breaking winters of the previous two or three years were to continue themselves without interruption then I might start to be concerned that there was something seriously haywire with the climate; however, that does not seem to be the case.

  14. R. de Haan says:

    adolfogiurfa says:
    2 April 2012 at 2:30 pm
    “@ @RdeHaan- you know if we could tap that 26B Kilowatts we could make a fortune, or two;-)
    Easy, read the following from Tesla, and you will realize how to do it:

    Click to access tesla_patent.pdf

    Parts: 1) A receiver metal plate, 2) A capacitor (condenser) one end connected to the receiver plate, the other end to the positive terminal of a 3)battery, and the negative terminal of the battery connected to ground. The greater the area of the “antenna” the greater the received charge.”

    Weak points: “THE BATTERY” and the fluctuations in energy

    Cheap and reliable energy storage capacity will remain the Achilles Heal solar and wind power and it will be the reason why the electric car will remain a pipe dream.

    There are voices that tell us to invest more money in battery research.

    This is total nonsense.

    Manufacturers of power tools, manufacturers of cell phones, lap tops and recently the tablet computers where battery price, size, weight, power endurance and reliability is a key element to maintain or expand their market position, have pumped billions in battery research programs and continue to do so.

    The latest attempt to create the best battery in the market was made by Apple.
    Apple introduced the new iPad III with a power eating high resolution screen.

    In order to remain a similar endurance as the iPad II, a better battery was key to the entire project.

    Apple’s battery project failed.

    For me this is an indication that we have arrived at the limits of what is possible in battery development and the time has come to think out of the box.

    The German car industry, pressured by insane CO2 emission standards have left the track of developing battery hybrids or electric cars (although some companies like Opel and BMW do as if they are committed and came up wit he Ampera and some electric BMW models that just like the Ampera won’t sell.

    Instead they now focus on the flywheel wheel again.
    Their latest development is a magnetic flywheel that runs in a vacuum, no axle, no bearings, no maintenance and incredible storage capacity with losses below 1% over a storage period of 8 hours. Mass produced these flywheels would cost a fraction of any battery currently on the market. Volvo is set to bring the first mass produced flywheel car to the market by 2013.
    Porsche already has a flywheel hybrid on the market and other manufacturers will follow.

    In Germany flywheels have been applied along a rail track of a local commuter train.
    The flywheels stabilize the grid and recapture the breaking energy of the train and release it when it accelerates.

    In the Netherlands a flywheel delivers the power to launch the wagons of a roller coaster keeping ticket prices low and the roller coaster reliable.

    Now back to the Tesla project, replace batteries in the patent with flywheel’s and do a field test
    to establish “the necessary size of the antenna” when space weather is quiet and determine the amount of storage capacity needed to profit from “the power blasts”.

    This way you can determine the base load capacity of the application, it’s costs and do the calculations.

    We have enough highly expensive non base load generating energy applications like wind and solar make no practical contribution to our energy needs.

    In the mean time I really wonder what it will cost to build an experimental set up of the Tesla patent.

  15. R. de Haan says:

    I found this rather dated but interesting youtube video about free energy, zero energy and more.

    Of course the commentary contains the usual pile of hubris about our current fossil fueled society but I managed to ignore it.

    Lot’s of experiments and lot’s of interesting cases are presented.

  16. R. de Haan says:

  17. adolfogiurfa says: Haan: It really works, and its functioning is simple and as in any electric motor, a magnetic field is attracted by the next one, and so on, and it only requires a starting impulse……but, the electromagnetic energy contained in those permanents magnets will get exhausted in a certain time, then it is not free: It runs on the energy saved in those permanent magnets. Its cost?, well…. there is no “free lunch” anyway.

  18. adolfogiurfa says: Haan:……and, there you are, the best battery ever: a magnet. You just put energy into a piece of metal, as an electrical field, until such a piece of metal is magnetized…

  19. George says:

    According to NCDC this March in North America was *just barely* warmer than the March of 1910. That despite the fact that temperatures from 1910 have been adjusted doward a great deal by NCDC and recent temperatures are always udjusted upwards.

  20. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: What happens?…..three days without a new post from you.

  21. George says:

    Maybe he has taken some time off for Easter.

  22. Peter Offenhartz says:

    I am posting this after a long delay in the hope that only a few will see it. BUT: If you are going to quote what I say and use my name I would hope you have the decency and honesty to do so accurately.

  23. E.M.Smith says:

    @Adolfo & George:
    I said more under T5, but the short form is “It’s hard to make new postings without the M key – or now the ‘period’ key -” and yeah, I took a couple of days off. Read “Sum of all Fears” (over 900 pages!) and some other stuff (including staying up at night on ‘cat duty’).

    I have an outboard keyboard for the laptop, but it doesn’t work conveniently in my usual locations – so need me to sit at a desk…

  24. R. de Haan says:

    From Geoff Sharp’s Blog Beyond Landscheidt

    Another spotless day recorded for 2012 showing that even though the cycle is close to solar maximum, the Sun is indeed in a funk. The likelihood of SC24 being the first cycle of a current grand minimum increases, which if correct will be an early start to the Landscheidt Minimum. Landscheidt used the downward spikes of negative solar torque or angular momentum to predict solar grand minima, but we now know that method is very approximate. The perturbed angular momentum that occurs near the Landscheidt markers is much more likely to be proved the more accurate method along with giving us a scale of the downturn.

    We are one third into April which is at present showing a downturn on last month, if this trend continues it will be significant.

    Just observing: only one > 4.0 quake registered by Iris over the past 24 hours.

  25. E.M.Smith says:


    Cut the crap. First off, I did NOT “quote you”, I made a reference to your prior comments. Those two things are quite different. To say “He didn’t like the ice cream” does not require a quote of: He said “Rocky Road has nuts in it and I don’t like nuts”. Nor is it in any way “dishonest” nor indecent to do so. It’s crap like this that has you tagged for hold prior to comment Inability to see reality in front of you and distorting things ( I can’t speak to motivation or cause, but it’s pretty clearly there. Anyone who can construe a ‘comment on what someone said’ for a quote, when no quote marks are present, is at minimum being very sloppy.)

    So, you had a particular issue (which I only peripherally saw, as stated in the prior posting) that you then put up a comment clarifying (that is STILL up, for all to see) and at a site where most folks are “regulars” (so everyone has seen it already). Your SPECIFIC and EXACT views are there for all to see, and have been. NOW you want to bitch that somehow it’s “dishonest” or indecent to informally refer back to it rather than quote that whole thing? In a preamble to an article that specifically says ‘that other thing got me looking but I found this instead’?

    So no, Peter, I fully and completely reject your attitude and carping comment. Lighten up, get a clue, and quitcherbitchen, or enjoy time in the SPAM queue.

    The essence of your prior point (that a record had been set, but by a wide margin) is captured in “it’s been a warm winter in the USA. As though this was unheard of.” The article then goes on to show that in time periods prior to the GISS start of time, and prior to most of the data used for “records”, had a very hot winter rather similar to this one and where typical indicia confirm it ( such as ice clearing time on a lake). So that there was a new record set IN THE RECORDED DATA says very little about THE NON-DATA PERIOD That’s the whole POINT of the article; Not You. At most your point is a sidebar to a preamble and substantially irrelevant. So to refer to it by a reference, and NOT a quote, is perfectly reasonable.

    If you want to treat that as a fault, and deliver slander and character attack in return, you will find zero sympathy from me.

    The simple fact is, as the article points out, we periodically and sporadically have winters very much like the one that just passed. That we record ‘record temperatures’ then is more a statement about the poor quality of data we have and the short (nearly microscopic in geological terms) time span of that data. THAT is what matters. THAT is what has meaning. Your whining does not.

  26. E.M.Smith says:

    @R. de Haan:

    Wow! That’s an impressive list of folks on that NASA letter. Names of real distinction. Folks who’ve had to do things that depended on real and accurate science and know they would not want their lives depending on the kind of stuff Hansen does. Very impressive.

    Add in that Burt Rutan is also on the “Skeptic” list, and it’s pretty clear where the “Best and Brightest” and the “Right Stuff” folks are lining up.

  27. R. de Haan says:

    Yes, Rutan IMO is absolutely credible.

    I just wrote a letter to the Aerokurier, the biggest aviation magazine in Germany.
    They have been beating the CAGW drum for years now and I really got fed up them.
    Off course I have mentioned the “NASA Revolt” and the Rutan’s views of the subject.
    I wrote to them that beating the CAGW drum is not serving the interests of the flying community since the EU is set to destroy the entire sector based on non science based propaganda.

    I cancelled my subscription to the magazine years ago when they came up with a hubris story how CAGW would change the soaring conditions over Europe.

    My letter will be ignored of course so maybe the time has come to start a website aimed at the flying communities and confront Aerokurier with some external pressure by processing their crap in public and debunk their claims.

    There are also other motivations.

    Local airstrips today are threatened with closure because the green zealots have planned wind parks close to the landing strips.

    Some clubs forced into negotiations with local governments have been forced into crazy deals where they were committed to cover the hangar roofs with solar panels just to keep the wind mills away. I know of at least one club that has more capital locked in solar panels than they have in aircraft and real estate.

    The previous winter a thick pack of snow threatened to down the hangars because the construction was not designed to carry the weight of the solar panels and the snow pack.

    We really have to put an end to this madness.

  28. Paul Hanlon says:

    Here in Ireland, we’ve had an incredibly mild winter. I’m really thankful because the Mum was very sick. But this is after the three worst winters I can remember. There was a blocking high centred over Ireland during the really cold snap in Europe which protected us even though there was record cold there. That blocking high migrated over Europe and they had very good weather during its duration, and we’ve had a cold spring (but no snow), so far.
    The best summers we had were 1975 and 1976, which is two moon cycles from now. It will be interesting to see if we have a really nice summer this year and next, because it will mean that the moon has a definite effect on the climate. If not, then we were the very fortunate recipients of another blocking high then – which means it was just weather. Whichever way, CO2 will have had no say in it.

  29. Paul Hanlon says:

    @R. de Hann re: flywheels.

    I’ve had a real interest in these as a way to store power. What immediately struck me about them is that doubling the speed increased the storage potential by four, there are no worries about charge/discharge cycles, you can get back some energy through brake regeneration, it could potentially last forever, and if not, can be easily recycled.

    I’m pretty sure there was a picture of a flywheel mounted on a huge excavator at this website, but I can’t find it now.

    I’m surprised that there hasn’t been much wider adoption of these. One of these could fit in the nacelle of a wind turbine, between the turbine and the generator. When the turbine isn’t turning, the power is drawn from the flywheel. When power isn’t required, the turbine stores it in the flywheel. There’s a vast range of stationary applications to which flywheels could apply.

    The only thing that concerns me with mobile applications like cars, is what happens in a crash, or even going over some of the road humps that they’ve put on the roads. You have a huge amount of energy stored in a heavy object, and if that is released all at once, well, let’s just say no good can come from it.

    If Volvo have a market ready solution, then they must have overcome this, which gives me hope. It will put the idea of flywheels directly in front of people, and they’ll start to wonder why we don’t just use these to balance power needs with supply. Hell, it could save a fortune re-tooling the “smart grid” to adapt to intermittent supply.

  30. E.M.Smith says:

    @R. de Haan:

    I’d say ‘go for it’ on the web site.

    It does look to me like ‘aviation for the common man’ is under assault from governments world wide.

    @Paul Hanlon:

    Sorry to hear about the Mum… but glad you were on a warm side of the jet stream!

    I’ve been on the cold and wet, but it’s never that cold here, so better me than you.

    Per lunar cycles, see here for all of them and a nice composite projection of future trends:

    Per lack of flywheel adoption: When something makes a lot of sense and isn’t being done, I typically find that either there is a lack of any motivation due to other solutions (or no real benefit to the guy who would do the purchasing) or a hidden agenda working against it.

    In this case, how does it benefit the electric power sellers? They get paid by the government set tariff structure… Nobody pays for flywheels. A new power plant gets a justified rate increase…

    Per flywheels in cars, like you pointed out, I’d not want to be near one in a crash. Supposedly the carbon composite stuff just turns into ‘fluff’, but that energy has to be somewhere…


    Nice links! Thanks!

    @Sandy Macclintock:

    I’ve noticed a partial pattern in the data of the S.Hemisphere doing the opposite of the north. It showed up a lot in some of the Antarctic data IIRC. But yes, there are some ‘counter move’ oscillations. Don’t know if it is whole S.H. or just the few regions where we had thermometers. ( i.e. if Australia has a cold counter move to USA, is there also a warm ‘middle of the south Atlantic’ that isn’t in the historical data…)

    @Bruce Ryan:

    I’ve often observed folks able to invert reality and not notice. Don’t know how they can to it. I have a hard time not seeing the patterns of reality.

    @Daryl Little-Smith:

    Nice list… I’ll have to see if I can internalize bits of it.

    Hadn’t seen the study you talk about, but it would not surprise me. The ’70s were very cold and one phase of the PDO / AMO, then we flipped to the other, warmer, side. As of about 2000, we’ve flipped back. Pretty soon I’d expect to see ice returning. Any study that looks at less than a 60 to 120 year period will find all sorts of ‘trends’ that are just partial cycles.


    It’s gonna take one heck of a metal plate and capacitor to catch 26 Billion kW…


    I get my share! ;-)

    Yes, I’m catching up on comments from when I was offline …


    Good point. Natural things wobble, they don’t go in straight lines. (Watch a dog run ;-)

    In stock trading I’ve often noted a spike one way just before a trend reversal the other. Rather like 1998 or so is a big out of place spike up, then we trended down. “Outside days” in markets are often the same. Reversal indicators, not a call to get aboard the ‘trend’.


    I’m going to watch the video but I’m not all that enthused about magic energy machines.

    I do have to wonder, though, at the way conservation of Angular Momentum on a moving planet might cause ‘unexpected things’ to happen.


    What amazes me is how they keep on playing the same dodge of adjusting the past downward and even when caught in it, nothing changes. Must have ‘top cover’…

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