Eurozone Socialism Spat

This is just precious…

We’ve got a new Socialist elected in France. We’ve got the product of too many “Social Welfare” programs and the “Green Economy” taking down Greece and Spain. We’ve got a “modern social democracy” in Germany that has been making loads of money by selling their goods cheaper than they otherwise would be to the rest of Europe (plus some status cars to China and some other tech odds and ends) via a shared currency preserving productivity disconnects. A kind of internal mercantilism.

Germany has been funding the “bail out” of the rest of the EU. Now they want to say no.

Looks to me like the German’s have discovered the tendency for Socialism to want to spend “other peoples money” and has discovered the tendency for the inevitable collapse of socialism in excess spending to try to find any and all other money to spend. And they don’t like it. Golly. Maybe they ought to read the works of Maggy Thatcher. ;-)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/may/07/eurozone-crisis-merkel-athens-paris

Europe’s 30-month effort to save the euro by slashing spending and debt levels risks turning into a crisis of political legitimacy after EU leaders’ strategies collided spectacularly with the wishes of voters in Greece and France.

The impasse was most graphically demonstrated when Germany’s chancellor, Angela Merkel, insisted Athens must comply with the stringent terms of its €130bn (£100bn) bailout even though more than 60% of the Greek electorate had voted for parties rejecting those terms.

Following a French election campaign in which she strongly backed the loser, Nicolas Sarkozy, and snubbed the president-elect, François Hollande, Merkel stressed her opposition to Hollande’s central campaign pledge: reopening the euro’s new rulebook, or fiscal pact.

“That’s just not on,” she told a Berlin press conference called to address the huge shift from right to left in France.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/06/15/europe-crisis-spreads-merkel-resists-big-steps.html

Europe crisis spreads as Merkel resists big steps
Colleen Barry, Associated Press, Milan | Business | Fri, 06/15/2012 8:20 AM

A growing number of European countries are being squeezed by a financial vise just days before a Greek election that could escalate the region’s political and economic turmoil.

The rise of Italian and Spanish borrowing costs to alarming levels Thursday heaped pressure on leaders to prevent Europe’s debt crisis from engulfing its largest countries. No grand solution appears imminent.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel opposes solutions that many experts are pushing that would increase costs for Berlin.

Merkel has found herself isolated from the leaders of Spain, Italy and France, who want the 17 countries in the euro currency union to move quickly to bind their governments’ finances and debt.

Such action could take the form of jointly issued debt or European-wide guarantees on bank deposits. Either step would spread the risks that individual countries bear across the eurozone.

Hey Angela! Here’s a clue: When there is a socialist in the mix, watch your wallet. Even if you, too, embrace Socialism Lite…

That is the way it always is. People vote for themselves the largess of the public purse until it runs dry, then borrow up to their eyeballs and raid the purses of anyone near them that has any money left. By moral suasion or by theft, however nicely disguised and wrapped in legal and financial niceties.

It’s just nice to watch it happening inside the EU Social Welfare State Collective …

Now if we can just get the USA to guarantee that we will not be presenting our wallet, oh, sorry, our Chinese Credit Card, for their use…

I need to catch up on financial postings, but the net-net is that after a load of jumps up and down, last week ended about no change of significance. Now, today, we’re plunging on this news. Just nutty. Mostly standing aside and waiting for smoke to clear and / or the EU to figure out if it will become the new Socialist Holy Roman Empire, or go back to being independent countries responsible for their own fate and using markets to coordinate themselves.

Also wondering how long before the Mercantilist Socialist Government of China will decide that bailing out the USA excessive Social Government Spending via loans is a bad idea… Same pattern, different scale and different players, so a different time scale. Eventually the same outcome, I’d expect.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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31 Responses to Eurozone Socialism Spat

  1. Pascvaks says:

    Understand (per Drudge) Soros is sore about EU “Happenings” and “Fearful” of “Collapse” (and having too much money to take to the Bank if it does, he’s not as young as he used to be). Europe is having a late “Spring” (in the Arab sense) and Dear Little Oma Angela needs to start staying home and “packin some heat” if she leaves the Old Vaterland. The thugs are out in force and throwing bottles and matches everywhere. I have a feeling someone is going to use the London Olympics to send a ‘message’, or make a statement; remember, they Love the Olympics, all those TV cameras, all those easy targets. (I guess we can pray it won’t happen a’la Munich, but I have a feeling someone ‘up there’ doesn’t have His ears on and tuned in to Good Ol’ Europa these days.) What was it again you don’t find in foxholes?

  2. I saw a Panorama programme on the BBC tonight (called Life and Debt). John Humphries (the presenter) has a son and grandchildren living there – it’s a bit more personal. Some interesting information, but one thing that was an important point was that when Greece joined the EU 70% of the working population were in farming or fishing, the percentage is now just 3%. The other big item was that a professor was asked by the government in Greece to improve the tax take. He put forward his recommendations, and when they were not implemented he investigated the tax-collectors too – sounds like he is now not flavour of the month, but he says 10 billion euros could easily be raised – there are a lot of rich people there. Meantime, the middle-class have become poor and schools have no books – the majority are paying the price for the politicians’ greed.

    Without jobs, no-one can pay the taxes, but without business-friendly conditions there can be no jobs except government jobs that don’t bring any real income. It looks like Greece was lured by that easy government money to give up the work they knew to do the government-sponsored jobs, and now it’s very hard for most people in Greece.

  3. adolfogiurfa says:

    I have just heard about THE TRICK behind all this: The lie is to scare everybody with the terrible fear of a CRISIS, that all their work, all their money, is menaced of losing its value, of worth nothing, then scared people will renounce to their attachment to nationalities in favor of the Holy Lenders European Empire (A.K.A.: Brave New World), where it will reign Cesar Augustus Rotschild/ Goldmann/Rockefeller, or any of the Golden Calf Worshipers….Until, on a second descent from Mount Tabor Abraham II (Recharged) will bring them finally under control of Jehova.

  4. Don Matías says:

    “Socialist Holy Roman Empire”, excellent!
    The term now used in Germany is “EUdSSR” = Europaeische Union der Sozialistischen Sowjetrepubliken”. I know why I left this GULAG eight years ago.

    Don Matías, BOLIVIA.

  5. adolfogiurfa says:

  6. E.M.Smith says:

    Cyprus has now asked for a bail-out due to…. heavy investments in Greece…

    They have a Communist Leader and he’s looking to pick up money for handouts in Social Welfare and Pension programs…

    @Simon:

    Part of the Agenda 21 mantra is to move folks out of farming and fishing and into cities and service jobs… Like that’s going to work…

    @Paskvaks:

    Never suggest that a German Leader do anything involving guns! Talk about a tipping point! ;-)

    @Adolfo:

    That may be the desire, but when things collapse, folks usually form up into smaller local groups instead.

    @Don Matías:

    Glad you liked it. Feel free to use it…

  7. George says:

    Clarke and Dawe are on the case as usual:

  8. nickleaton says:

    The other big item was that a professor was asked by the government in Greece to improve the tax take.

    =============

    So put yourself in a Greek Taxpayer’s shoes. Why pay taxes? Taxes are the price of government services. There are no government services. Money is going on debts. You get nothing back for your taxes.

    Far from condemning the Greek taxpayer for not paying the fraudsters, we should be praising them for common sense.

  9. nickleaton says:

    Remember too the real con. Look at government debts world wide. Do the reported figures include all the debts? No, they just report borrowing, and say debts = borrowing.

    Nothing about all the other debts such as pensions.

    It’s a fraud. Bernie Maddoff had it wrong, he should have been a politician.

  10. Petrossa says:

    There is a Tsjech writer who fled Praque in 1968 for russian invasion. In a recent interview he said:

    When i fled Praque that was the last time tanks would be used to conquer Europe. Now it is being done with subtler means.

  11. Ian W says:

    An interesting article here http://www.cityam.com/latest-news/allister-heath/euro-s-deluded-alchemists-were-chasing-fool-s-gold-all-along# along the same lines. It would appear that the cracks are starting to grow.

  12. Pascvaks says:

    If I were a 21st Century Greek I’d go to…..
    hummmmm…..
    let me think a little more…. ahhhh..
    Aust.. ahhhhh… nahhhh…
    Braz.. ahhhh.. no, no no.. ahhhhh..
    Can.. ahhhh.. no too close to.. ahhhh..
    Chile!!!!

  13. oldtimer says:

    The German finance minister has now said that the German voter will have to decide on any further transfer of sovereignty to Brussels (the EU) through a referendum. He has acknowledged they are bumping up against the limits of the German constitution. This confirms that Germany will not sign any blank cheques, that much time will be expended working out just what a fiscal, and banking, union will involve and just how existing EU institutions, powers (and personnel?) are to be modified or changed. Until this is completed to Germany`s satisfaction and can be explained to the German electorate it seems to me to be unlikely that there will any referendum any time soon.

    In the meantime it is unclear what Greece will use for money; over-printing euro notes seems to be option 1. Der Spiegel reports that German firms are busy with contingency plans in the event of a collapse of the euro and a return to national currencies.

  14. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M. Part of the Agenda 21 mantra is to move folks out of farming and fishing and into cities and service jobs… Like that’s going to work…….There WE become, from being INDEPENDENT to be totally DEPENDENT of the Banking systems,
    I clearly remember, about 1966, when I took my wife to a doctor who worked for the US embassy, while waiting I was able to read a USIS brochure on “Land Reform”. In the 68´there was a coup d´etat, sponsored by the group of peruvian studies, funded by the Carnegie and Ford´s foundations, which issued the Land Reform Bill; farmers received “land reform bonds” not redeemed until now. Land property then believed to turn to land workers (peasants) really turned, in 40 years, to be owned by international corporations (banks really).
    Anyone of us could have read about this “Land Reform” project way back in 1920´s, in Henry Ford´s known book…..
    @Pascvaks: Let me tell you you are wrong about Chile: Right now there, the communist party, through a young lady comrade, Camila Vallejo, is making rallyes, strikes, schools and universities takes over, in order to remove profit from education. The leaders of this movement have been backed and invited to the UN and to the EU parliament. These youngsters do not know that they are being utilized as “useful fools”of the speculative banking elite, in order to change the chilean society, which among a few in the world, still has a local ruling class of traditional spanish origin, which also owns most of the land and which is being backed by a local and very nationalistic army. There it could not be implemented Land Reform, as after less than two years of beign promulgated by the leftist government of Salvador Allende, was stopped by the Coup d´etat of Gnal.Augusto Pinochet.
    Then, the NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, wants to totally remove their ruling class to turn all chilean people dependent, as I said before. Really all this Agenda 21 began in the 19th century, with the “independence” from Spain revolutions, then sponsored by the Masonic orders, who trained a group of youngsters in Argelia in the military arts; that group of youngsters became, afterwards, the “liberators” we all know. It is sarcastic to observe that all these “revolutions” were gladly sponsored then by England, which benefited from taking from Spain all its empire, but really played the “useful fool” part too, as their own country (economy and everything) now is ruled and governed from Brussels and have become a EU colony.
    If were to choose I would go where the elite has gone: to China, or to Russia. In China they are ignoring the chinese people it is an old culture who will dispose of them when the time is due, after THEY (LOL!) have been fulfilled their role of “useful fools”. In the case of Russia it is a too religious people (Moscow, remember, is the “Third Rome”) which will hardly follow the SECULAR way imposed by the French Revolution´s “Enlightment” with its “Libertè, Egalitè et Fraternitè”.

  15. philjourdan says:

    I cannot argue with your post since I just basically made the same statement on another blog. OPM is great – until the OP decide they want to keep their M.

  16. nickleaton says:

    My take going forward is war.

    Not between states, but the state against the people.

  17. adolfogiurfa says:

    @oldtimer: There is a weak possibility that Germany could free itself from Brussels and from its yoke. In their case they would need just to gather four germans together (one german is one, two are two, three are three, but four are an ARMY :-) ).
    Anyway it would need a group of brave men who love their country, the same applies for every country. After then WE the free people of the earth will be able to recognize and respect among us with our particular characteristics and differences, without any imposed “homogenization” ( as elite´s servants or slaves) whatsoever, or as degraded members of an idiotic “Brave New World” conceived by the mad will of a few.

    @ALL Watch this: Lord Monckton latest video on 2012 Rio Summit:

  18. Thanks Adolfo – worth the time and makes me think maybe the government aren’t all crazy.

  19. adolfogiurfa says:

    In order to make “business” with government it is better do it with the biggest government possible so as to make business bigger and with the fewest people possible, better if they are OUR own employees/butlers. This is why communism is the ideal system and the goal is having a Global Government through the UN.

  20. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh this is just precious…. Egan-Jones downgrades Germany…. because….

    They think Germany will only be repaid about 1/2 of the Billions that has been put on their credit card by other countries….

    What a hoot…
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/egan-jones-gives-sovereign-rating-downgrade-for-germany-2012-06-26

    June 26, 2012, 3:08 p.m. EDT
    Egan-Jones Gives Sovereign Rating Downgrade For Germany

    You may not want to care any longer, but the implication is that you have to keep caring. You will probably have to keep caring about this for years as European ratings go down the tubes. The ratings agency Egan-Jones has now downgraded the sovereign credit rating of Germany. The old “AA-” rating was cut to “A+” in the move today.

    The assumption of supporting the Euro endlessly to country after country. Fortunately the good news is that the market is giving this a low-impact value so far as Egan-Jones is being more critical than the larger ratings agencies.

    So it looks like “loans to bad risks by proxy” may also be reaching an end…

    @Adolfo:

    True, but only until the system collapses….

    @Petrosa:

    I always liked the Czechs… They have a certain reality based way about them…. Then again, they hung out with Celts in Bavaria a few thousand years ago (when we taught them to make beer ;-)

    @George:

    Comedy has the strongest lance of all some times….

    @Ian W:

    Cracks, chasms, yawning gorges…. Yeah, even Grand Canyons…

    Turns out Japan today announce the intent to double their national sales tax to try and get THEIR debt down (at 200%+ of GDP….)

    IMHO, the one thing left out of our constitution was a prohibition on ANY national debt…

    @Pascvaks:

    Cute… very cute… ;-)

    But really, I’m not sure where I’d go… (and I am actively thinking about it….)

    @Oldtimer:

    I suspect there will not be enough time for the German Political Process to run…

    @Philjourdan:

    Got a link to your version? Please post it here!

    (I like reading other people’s stuff when they have my ideas…. ;-)

    @Adolfo (per earlier comments):

    Frankly, it looks like the Slavic language speakers have more clue about all this ( or are just more cynical having just gotten out from under communism) but were I given free run, I’d pick somewhere from Czech Republic to Poland to Ukraine to eventually Russia. Along that arc, anyway. They seem cluefull and cynical enough to keep their heads on straight.

    Per New Orders et. al.:

    Not going to happen. “Just Folks” seem “dumb” from above, when in fact they are just busy and distracted. “Focus” them via the kind of crap being done, it’s not going to be pretty….

    So as long as the Powers The Be are not too annoying, they get free rein. Once they are a PITA, they get introduced to the French Haircut ….

    Doesn’t matter what the deed says…

    Per “homogenizing”: Never liked it much myself. I like having different cultures and different language to visit and enjoy. What good it is to go to Mexico if it is just Taco Bell with a better accent? I want authentic Mexico with real Mexicans in it. I want French Canadians that speak FRENCH. Otherwise it’s just damn boring…

    Per bankers: Please realize that the bankers do not get the money. They are just employees of the company (and not all that well paid most of the time). Look to the folks shoving the banks around “for effect”. THEY are the benefactors….

    Meanwhile back at EuroLand….

    So we’re racking up about 1 more “hand out / bail out” country a week now… including a German Downgrade… (Which means if Germany hand out any MORE money, it will be even more downgraded with each added loan until it matches the eventual bailee… ) Rock, meet hard place….

    So, in short:

    EU – Net, broke. (Germany ‘bailing out’ weak players, but now tapped out to a downgrade…)
    USA – Net, broke. ($5 Trillion / year NEW debt, ‘being Greece’ in about 3 more years.
    Japan – Net, broke. ( MORE Debt / GDP than the USA or even Greece, just more polite… )
    Latin America – Near Net broke. (And would be but after the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s they couldn’t get the credit to go into insane debt again…).

    So what’s left? Russia and China? India? How about Australia and New Zealand?

    Somehow I think the process is accelerating….

    As both China and Russia refused to loan to Cyprus, that has a ‘fellow traveler’ communist leader; I think they are getting tired of loaning to The West too…

    So where’s the next $5 TRILLION for the USA going to come from? AND the $Trillion or so for the EU? Well….

    I know, we can all just loan it to each other… Yeah, that’s the ticket…. /sarcoff>;

  21. E.M.Smith says:

    @George:

    Just got to watch the video: Those guys are GREAT! Just love it that they have such clue about how things really are… 8-)

    @Adolfo:

    Also watched the Lord Monckton video. I can only hope his assessment is correct.

    He’s generally pretty good at reading tea leaves, so I’d weight his statements highly.

  22. philjourdan says:

    @E.M. – It was just a comment on another Blog – Suyts Space (here at wordpress as well). I will try to dig it up as I just made it, so it should be in my active column (just made as in just before I read your article).

  23. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: Latin America – Near Net broke. (And would be but after the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s they couldn’t get the credit to go into insane debt again…).
    That is a wild generalization of Argentina, Venezuela and all countries following the Chavez economic model. Absolutely not true about my country, Peru, having if I am not wrong a debt of about 18% of the GDP:
    http://www.adexdatatrade.com/perutrade/Peru%20en%20Graficos%2009.pdf
    See?…What the heck are you waiting for?

  24. E.M.Smith says:

    @Adolfo:

    Yes, it is always a generalization when talking about an entire continent.

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/peru/debt-forgiveness-grants-us-dollar-wb-data.html


    The Debt forgiveness grants (US dollar) in Peru was 14020000.00 in 2009, according to a World Bank report, published in 2010. The Debt forgiveness grants (US dollar) in Peru was reported at 10730000.00 in 2008, according to the World Bank.
    Debt forgiveness grants data cover both debt cancelled by agreement between debtor and creditor and a reduction in the net present value of non-ODA debt achieved by concessional rescheduling or refinancing. The data are on a disbursement basis and cover flows from all bilateral and multilateral donors. Data are in current U.S. dollars.This page includes a historical data chart, news and forecasts for Debt forgiveness grants (US dollar) in Peru. Peru’s economy reflects its varied geography – an arid coastal region, the Andes further inland, and tropical lands bordering Colombia and Brazil. Abundant mineral resources are found in the mountainous areas, and Peru’s coastal waters provide excellent fishing grounds. Historically, the country’s economic performance has been tied to exports, which provide hard currency to finance imports and external debt payments.

    I’m sure there’s no problem with loaning money to Peru…

  25. Pascvaks says:

    @Adolfo –
    Ref my last.
    If I’d said “P___”, above, it would have been invaded by a bunch of idiot Greengos looking for a new start and all they would do would spoil everything. Whenever someone asks where they ought to relocate to, tell them Chile (or somewhere else), and don’t try to sell “you-know-where” too much in the next few years. Of course, it would probably have been better if I’d said Egypt as the place to go, I think half the people up here would have believed me;-)

  26. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Pascvaks….and worst if GW/Green/Sustainability believers (kind of coming from Schwarzenegger´s Kaliphornia) :-)

  27. David says:

    Great post showing how inherent and intrinsic human charcter traits manifest in socialism. The usuall transfer of wealth from the individual or demonised haves, to the have nots, is now played out from the have nations, to the “have not” nations, both in Europe as you show here, and as is being attempted, but with claimed ulterior enviromental motives, internationally.

    “One must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore.”

    ~ Ottmar Edenhofer, Co-Chair, UN/IPCC, WG-3

  28. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: I’m sure there’s no problem with loaning money to Peru… ???????, what for?, that would be just for politicians´profit (“comissions”). No way. There is no need of that now: Most local governments (provinces) give money back to the central government, at the end of each year, as they were not capable of expending all their budgets (about 50% avg.); that is the real problem (though you may not believe it): lack of capacity to do it. This is because they have to demonstrate the economic feasibility of each investment project. BTW, congress does not have the right , “the initiative”, for expenditure, this is forbidden by the constitution.

  29. adolfogiurfa says:

    Try to find “democracy” or “re-distribution” in Nature: You will not find it.

  30. Power Grab says:

    P____, huh? Maybe I should not have studied French in high school…. On the other hand, my offspring has studied Spanish and is currently taking Japanese lessons from a private tutor. I can’t help but believe that is going to be money well spent…one way or another.

    OK. Here’s my two cents’ worth…I was not aware of the migration of Greeks from fishing and farming into city jobs. Doesn’t sound good to me. Here’s why:

    Whenever I hear people bellyaching about how there are too many people on the planet, I keep thinking about how poor the predictions of shortages have been in their outcomes. (I’m thinking of the predictions of oil shortages, water shortages, food shortages – most of those active shortages in this day and time are attributable to mismanagement and/or interference of gummints, wars, etc.)

    In other words, left alone to invent, the humans always seem to come up with something to keep them going. What’s that got to do with farming and fishing? Well, the more people there are to farm and fish, the more food there can be – up to a point. Also, the more prosperous the population, the less they feel drive to over-procreate. But that’s not my point here.

    If you’re stuck on a island, and there is no other land to occupy, you could end up with that mindset that the major island-dwelling nations have, that everything must be tightly controlled by US, not THEM.

    However, if you have lots of unoccupied land (like the United States and many other parts of the world), then you should not worry yourself into a tizzy, trying to manage your life the same way the island-dwellers do. Do I have to name names? I hate to, because I figure any of us would end up with their attitude if we lived under their constraints. I don’t really want to point fingers and say any one (or two) nations are The Enemy.

    I sure would like to recount a section of the book of Genesis that recent years’ events keep reminding me of, but I won’t. Suffice to say that it has to do with famine. But I keep asking myself, with things going the way they are, aren’t we just setting ourselves up to CREATE A FAMINE by moving everyone into cities and playing like we can save-and-recycle ourselves into sufficient wealth to survive?

    IMHO, it’s not the way to run a railroad, as they used to say.

    Sorry to be so oblique, but check out the latter chapters of Genesis and see what Joseph told his relatives when they moved into Egypt. Then observe what the gummint proceeded to do.

  31. philjourdan says:

    @Pascvaks says: 27 June 2012 at 1:53 pm

    “Of course, it would probably have been better if I’d said Egypt as the place to go, I think half the people up here would have believed me;-)”

    Especially Hillary Clinton – I understand she has a boy friend over there. ;-)

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