Interesting Ecat report

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline

has a link to the pdf of the report. Looks promissing. COP > 3 For over 30 days running.

according to a new 54-page report. The researchers observed a small E-Cat over 32 days, where it produced net energy of 1.5 megawatt-hours, or “far more than can be obtained from any known chemical sources in the small reactor volume.” The researchers were also allowed to analyze the fuel before and after the 32-day run, noting that the isotopes in the spent fuel could only have been obtained by “nuclear reactions” — a conclusion that boggles the researchers: “… It is of course very hard to comprehend how these fusion processes can take place in the fuel compound at low energies.”

hard to fake a megawatt…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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92 Responses to Interesting Ecat report

  1. omanuel says:

    Thank you for this report. The history of post-WWII events strongly suggest:

    1. Stalin won WWII in Aug 1945
    2. Negotiated with Allies in Sept 1945
    3. Formed the UN in Oct 1945
    4. Forbid public knowledge of nuclear energy in stars & nuclei after 1945

  2. omanuel says:

    Here’s a summary of events:

    http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-8355

    These events may also indicate Dr Carl von Weizsacker was a Soviet spy who

    1. Kept Hitler from building an atomic bomb and winning WWII

    2. Kept the public from knowledge of nuclear energy after WWII

  3. Simon Derricutt says:

    Sadly the measurement of the power output may have been overstated. Since the temperature measurement is by IR camera, so works on colour-temperature rather than actual temperature, and the Alumina tube is translucent and so diffuses the light from the heater elements, it looks likely that the COP was actually somewhat less than calculated and may in fact not be over 1. It’s hard to tell – the experimental method was somewhat flawed.

    There is a photo that appears to be of the hot tube which is presumably supposed to be at somewhere above 1400°C. That’s molten steel temperature, which looks a lot whiter than the photo which looks to be around 800°C with the peaks on the tube at around 500°C. Maybe the photo isn’t accurate as to colour rendering, but it really doesn’t look to be that hot. Maybe people who do more welding that I do can make a better estimate by eye of what that temperature actually is.

    I still think Rossi probably has a working process, but after this report I’m maybe a bit less convinced than I was before.

  4. Ian W says:

    Plate tectonics had a really difficult time from the science community, and it did not have any impact on important funding agencies or industry. LNER has these problems and more.
    = The scientists who say it is impossible will not want to back track and will go into laugh at its folly mode
    = The existing energy industries, oil, gas, nuclear, wind hydro will really not want this to be true and will ensure that everyone they fund tries to ensure that it fails – whatever the cost (even trying to purchase the patent for eye-watering sums while saying it won’t work).
    = Those nations whose entire wealth depends on oil, gas and coal will not want the LNER to be true and will be throwing political grit in the gears
    = Those politicians, bankers and industrialists who are currently trying to take control of world access to energy via Agenda 21 and associated One World Government and Bilderberg/Club of Rome schemes will do anything they can to prevent this coming true.

    All in all this is really good news for the world but desperately unwelcome news for all the current people in power.

  5. Ian W says:

    Simon Derricutt says:
    12 October 2014 at 4:31 pm

    Simon,
    Without querying your estimates at all.
    Can you give examples of any other system that size that will maintain a temperature even of only (?) 800C for 31 days and change the percentages of Nickel isotopes while doing so?

    These must be really common so I am sure you can provide references to them.

  6. p.g.sharrow says:

    @Simon; Read the article and then your comment. Went back and re-examined the pictures. It appears to me that the energy claimed produced may be correct. The size and color of the energy magnifier looks to be at least 2+ Kw and way more then what I would expect to see from less then 1Kw of electrical energy claimed input. 3.5 COP is a useful number but a 10 would be needed for a real power plant. At least it is about 5 times the efficiencies of the present plasma fusion experiments. Not bad, I would say.
    Rossi has indicated that COP numbers up to 20 are possible but control of the reaction is poor. The high temperature devices have a lower COP number then the cooler units. 3.7COP is an improvement over the 3COP of earlier high temperature models. Your guesstimate of 500-800C external temperature looks to be about right, but eyeballing temperatures of refractories is very difficult. I am pleased with his progress but this has a long way to go before it will replace a coal fired power plant.
    The price of oil has tanked over the last few weeks. Maybe someone is beginning to Believe! ;-) pg

  7. omanuel says:

    There are ten discoveries that leaked past the gatekeepers (NAS, RS, etc) of nuclear/solar knowledge in the 50 yr period after 1945:

    1. P. K. Kuroda, “On the nuclear physical stability of the uranium minerals,” J. Chem. Physics 25, 781 (1956); “On the infinite multiplication constant and the age of the uranium minerals,” J. Chem. Physics 25, 1256 (1956).

    2. O. K. Manuel, E. W. Hennecke and D. D. Sabu, “Xenon in carbonaceous chondrites,” Nature 240, 99-102 (1972) http://www.omatumr.com/archive/XenonInCarbonaceousChondrites.pdf

    3. O. K. Manuel and D. D. Sabu, “Elemental and isotopic inhomo-geneities in noble gases: The case for local synthesis of the chemical elements,” Transactions Missouri Academy Sciences 10, 104-122 (1975); “Strange xenon, extinct super-heavy elements, and the solar neutrino puzzle,” Science 195, 208-210 (1977): http://www.omatumr.com/archive/StrangeXenon.pdf

    4. Peter Toth, “Is the Sun a pulsar?” Nature 270, 159-160 (1977):
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v270/n5633/abs/270159a0.html

    5. O. K. Manuel and Golden Hwaung, “Solar abundance of the elements,” Meteoritics 18, 209-222 (1983): http://tinyurl.com/224kz4

    6. W. K. Brown and L. A. Gritzo, “The supernovae fragmentation model of solar system formation”, Astrophys. Space Sci. 123, 161-181 (1986).

    7. Carl A. Rouse, “Evidence for a small, high-Z, iron-like solar core”, Solar Physics 110, 211-235 (1987): http://www.springerlink.com/content/k26825872rv64411/

    8. Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons (1989), “Electrochemically induced nuclear fusion of deuterium”, Journal of Electroanalytical Chemistry 261, 301–308 (1989); M. Fleischmann et al. (1990), “Calorimetry of the palladium-deuterium-heavy water system”, ibid. 287, 293-348 (1990): http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022072889800063; http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/002207289080009U

    9. J. M. Herndon, “Nuclear fission reactors as energy sources for the giant outer planets,” Naturwissenschaften 79, 7-14 (1992).

    10. V. A. Kotov, “A pulsar inside the Sun?” Radiophysics and Quantum Electronics 39, 811-814 (1996): http://www.springerlink.com/content/j549440457107v36/

  8. Simon Derricutt says:

    Ian W – note that they had around 900W of electrical power fed in. Enough to maintain the thing at red heat (compare with a 1-bar electric fire). Does it looks like >1400°C to you? Rossi himself extracted the ash, and a small sample of that was taken for the analysis. Although I wouldn’t expect fraud here, there is certainly the opportunity for it. It would be to Rossi’s advantage to substitute some strange powder (even if the heat generated is real) in order to lead his competitors down the wrong path.
    By using an alumina plate in front of a point heat source, I’d reckon that on the thermal camera we’d see the plate as all at the same temperature as the heat source even if it was a lot colder. I haven’t the kit to be able to test this out – those thermal cameras are expensive and I don’t need one. Maybe someone else here can confirm this from their experience. If I put a 3000K light-source behind a diffuser I have a larger area of 3000K light, but of course less energy per cm².

    pg – yep, oil has suddenly dropped a lot. I’m glad you think my eyeball estimate of temperature is within the ballpark. More difficult from a photo, though, but the difference between around 8-900°C and >1400°C would, I think, be pretty obvious. If this runs on heat as a trigger, then in order to get the COP higher he needs to fix his control system to adjust the cooling rate rather than the heating rate. The COP could then be effectively infinite after start-up.

    I was expecting this report to be a definitive measurement and to be able to prove it with a reasonably-accurate set of numbers. Instead it’s less definite than the last one. The plus point here is that the start-up looks to be reliable, but I don’t know what the actual COP is. The measurements here are not good enough to even make me certain it’s over 1, though I think it probably is.

  9. R. Shearer says:

    Rossi has been a scammer his entire career (served jail time for fraud) and this latest report’s methodology looks amazingly like the kind done with DOD funds over a decade ago. The DOD could never replicate Rossi’s claims. http://www.researchgate.net/publication/235174113_Application_of_Thermoelectric_Devices_to_Fuel_Cell_Power_Generation_Demonstration_and_Evaluation

    For some lame reason, the researchers could not use an exact duplicate of the apparatus as a control (“dummy” in their words). It looks to me like the anomalous results could just be a result of stacking up errors from the PCE analyzers. See specs here: https://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/meters/power-analyser-pce-instruments-power-analyser-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm

    The isotopic analysis is interesting. Lithium 6 is relatively inexpensive and readily available commercially and it would be easy to commit fraud using it. http://www.americanelements.com/licb6.html
    I’m not sure about nickel 62.

    Evidence of quality (or lack thereof) they call Al2O3 aluminum dioxide on page 39.

  10. R. Shearer says:

    The ash mass spectra in Fig. 9 looks fake. As a practicing chemist that has looked at a lot of MS data, it just looks too clean to me. Further, consider that other than 62 amu it shows no other natural nickel isotopes. That is very strange.

  11. R. Shearer says:

    How would one obtain an ash sample that contained no fuel as a contaminant? I don’t think it is reasonable to expect that to be the case, but that is what the results show.

    I did find that nearly pure Ni 62 is available commercially. So, one so inclined could commit fraud. In any case, in a court of law, chain of custody procedures would have to have been followed for the results to be admissible. Since Rossi apparently took the samples himself, normal chain of custody was not followed. A third party should have been involved in taking and transporting the samples (mainly the ash).

    Rossi has a shady past having been convicted previously for fraud, having a degree from a diploma mill, making claims that other researchers have not been able to replicate, etc. I remain a skeptic.

  12.   D  o u  g   C o t t o n says:

    While ever you can produce no explanation for the net inflow of thermal energy required to raise the temperature of the Venus surface by 5 degrees during its sunlit hours (as per Hans Jelbring’s paper) then you have no understanding of planetary atmospheric and surface temperatures and the complete picture of all energy flows. I have explained what physics tells us in my book “Why It’s Not Carbon Dioxide After All.” You have not.

  13. omanuel says:

    @R. Shearer

    Even if “Rossi has been a scammer his entire career,” his claims merit consideration because we now know federal research agencies like NASA, DOE, etc. have scammed the American public about nuclear and solar energy for the past sixty-eight years.

    Here is a 1998 CSPAN video showing the NASA Administrator releasing data from the 1994 Galileo probe of Jupiter that confirmed a 1983 prediction:

    The Sun made our elements and then birthed the solar system out of heterogeneous supernova debris.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m3VIFmZpFco

  14. omanuel says:

    @R Shearer

    Nine pages of precise experimental data in this manuscript falsify both the Standard Solar Model & the Standard Nuclear Model that fear fabricated out of thin air immediately after WWII.

    “Solar energy,” Advances in Astronomy (submitted 1 Sept 2014) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Solar_Energy.pdf

  15. R. Shearer says:

    omanuel, a scammer’s claims deserve consideration because we know that federal agencies have scammed the American public for years?

    I’m sorry, your statement is illogical and makes no sense whatsoever.

  16. omanuel says:

    When you realize your government has deceived you for years, you too will go back and look at all the past reports of discoveries that the US NAS and UK RS mainstream dismissed as nonsense. E.g.,

    Nuclear fires burning spontaneously on Earth two billion years ago (1956);

    Formation of the solar system from heterogeneous supernova debris (1972-1977);

    A pulsar in the core of the Sun (1977);

    An iron-rich Sun (1983); etc., etc.

  17. omanuel says:

    @omanuel 2:53 pm 12 Oct 2014

    Here is background information on the very influential von Weizsacker family on German science and politics

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weizsäcker_family

  18. p.g.sharrow says:

    @R.Shearer; While you are out riding on your High Horse, You should study the operation of Italian Napoleonic Court system. First, you are convicted in secret by a prosecuting Judge in Grand Jury. Then from prison you can see the evidence and appeal and try to present a defense to change the juries decision.
    Rossi was exonerated on appeal.
    This is why the American system operates with the premise that you are innocent until proven guilty and are judged by your peers.
    The Department of Defense has people working with Rossi on this high temperature reactor. This is a real thing. How good it might be is the question. I would agree that the above test was poorly done and some of the conclusions not justified. I’ve seen high school lab students do a better job of running an experiment. We will just have to continue watching. pg.

  19. omanuel says:

    The reputations of two good scientists – Martin Fleischmann & Stanley Pons – were badly damaged by mainstream efforts to discredit their discovery of cold fusion in 1989.

    When the Climategate scandal finally folds, may mainstream scientists have the personal integrity to at least apologize to these two scientists.

  20. R. Shearer says:

    @p.g. sharrow, I don’t even own a pony, I am just a lowly scientist, chemist, skeptic. In any case, I’m glad you agree to the “high school” like nature of Rossi’s work. Little things like that, even knowing nothing about Rossi’s criminal past, should raise suspicion. Did you read the latest pdf that Chiefio refers to? Let me point out Figure 1. It is supposedly a picture of weighing the E-Cat after a test in the laboratory of “Officine Ghidoni SA.” (Officine in Italian means “workshops.”) You don’t find too many laboratories that use tables with vinyl faux wood tops as lab benches. Weighing tables should be heavy and level. But wait, that laboratory scale is actually a $30 or $40 kitchen scale. Please see this from its manufacturer: http://www.beurer.com/web/en/products/weight/Kitchen_scales/KS-31-

    Does Figure 3 look like a lab to you? It doesn’t to me. So anyway, here is Officine Ghidoni’s website: http://www.officineghidoni.ch/en If you poke around, you will find nothing about labs. You may find multiple Rossis in the org chart. Oh well, just a coincidence I suppose.

    With regard to Rossi’s crimininal past, you’re right I don’t know about the Italian legal system. But what I found from beginning with Wikipedia references is that Rossi was not acquitted on all charges, i.e., he was not exonerated. In fact, he was incarcerated more than once for multiple offences, including some unrelated to the Petrol Dragon scam. There is no question that it was a scam. But yes, I suppose some people are reformed in prison. That is possible. Not many go to prison with fake diplomas and leave prison as world changing geniuses, however. I suppose some do. His TE work with Leonardo Technologies Inc. looks to be another of several scams, but heck let’s forget these other past mistakes.

    Consider that in previous E-Cat work, copper was a chief product from his amazing nuclear transformations. Now copper is nowhere to be seen. Heck apparently even the lead shielding is no longer needed. What an amazing and fortuitous mechanistic change. (sarc)

    Consider that Rossi’s E-Cat is derived from the work of Focardi (late 1990’s) who he partnered with. That’s a long time to be debating about the basic question of whether this thing works or not, but I guess these things take time.

    In a 2009 patent application: https://www.google.com/patents/US20110005506?dq=andrea+rossi&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DRM7VIndE5ewyATy7IGIAQ&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA Rossi says that he has had a running E-Cat providing heat 24 hours per day to a factory perfectly for some extended period of time. He says that he switches off the electrical resistance after 3-4 hours and his device is then “self-supplied.” If that were the case, then this would all be mute. Mr. Rossi should just do what he said he had already done.

    Without much doubt to me, Rossi continues to scam. Just go through his patent and his latest report and decide for yourself.

    If you want to see a more “high-horse” criticism, I would point you to Lubo’s site (yesterday’s post): http://motls.blogspot.com/

  21. R. Shearer says:

    I don’t want to mute this debate, just if Rossi had something he could quit with the childish experiments and make this debate moot. There.

    Anyway, here is the main technical argument from Lubos about this latest E-Cat report. “The new pro-Rossi report also contains some analysis of the isotopic composition that says that over 90% of lithium was lithium-7 at the beginning, but it was below 10% of lithium-7 after the reaction. That’s despite the fact that they claim that the output was almost constant over time and they stopped it at a pretty much arbitrary moment. All these claims are ludicrous, of course. If the percentage of the usable fuel dropped that much, they would have to see a huge slowdown of the reaction.

    Of course, any nuclear reaction that would convert macroscopic amounts of the material to different isotopes would produce a lethal amount of radiation and the temperature would have to be at least tens of millions of kelvins. To misunderstand why these propositions are true means to misunderstand the very basics of modern physics.”

  22. R. Shearer – subsequent to Pons and Fleischmann having a meltdown using a 1cm cube of Palladium, they scaled down to foils. Most scientific experimenters in LENR use amounts of materials measured in milligrams, since they aren’t sure exactly what’s going to happen. There’s enough valid evidence that LENR itself is real, even if there’s not much evidence of either power at the kW level or that anyone can repeatably and reliably make the experiment work. Lubos is throwing the baby out with the bathwater by denying that it’s possible at all.

    Looking at the evidence we’ve actually got on the latest Rossi show-and-tell, the photos of the device at somewhere round a claimed 1400°C look instead to be somewhere around 900°C. If you substitute this temperature into their maths you end up with a COP of less than 1. Apart from showing that you can’t really estimate temperature that closely by eye from a photograph, since the COP can’t be less than 1, this really shows that the heat produced was only that put in electrically. No valid excess power produced at all. The dramatic COP was simply a failure in measurement.

    Although I’d previously thought that Rossi possibly had a valid process even though he couldn’t demonstrate it to order, this report has made me wonder if he’s ever had anything actually valid, and whether it’s all been measurement errors.

    Not too long ago it’s emerged that Defkalion messed up their water-flow measurements and in fact couldn’t demonstrate any reaction – this despite publishing data on isotopic changes. They of course started with Rossi and copied his methods.

    With these highly-publicised claims (and failures to prove them) it’s not surprising that Cold Fusion/LENR has a bad press. Let’s hope that Brillouin have got their measurements right and are actually telling the truth.

  23. omanuel says:

    Reliable information on nuclear energy was blocked or discredited after WWII:

    1. Kuroda’s 1956 report of natural nuclear reactors burning on Earth [J. Chem. Physics 25, 781 (1956); ibid., 1256 (1956)] http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog.2011/07/13/natures-nuclear reactors-the-2-billion-year-old-natural-fission-reactors-in-gabon-western-africa/

    2. Fleischmann and Pons’ 1989 report of cold fusion [J. Electroanalytical Chemistry & Interfacial Electrochem. 261, 301–308] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022072889800063

    2. Herndon’s 1992 report of natural reactors in cores of giant planets [Naturwissenschaften 79, 7-14 (1992)]: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01132272

    4. Galen Winsor video summary of abrupt changes in nuclear radiation safety after WWII:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ejCQrQTE-XA&feature=player_embedded

  24. omanuel says:

    Thanks to a few brave souls like E.M. Smith, Professor Curry and Steven Goddard (aka Tony Heller), the curtain has been pulled on the postmodern Wizard of Oz:

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/10/13/visualizing-how-corrupt-giss-has-become/#comment-439918

  25. R. Shearer says:

    Mr. Simon Derricutt, thank you for your well thought out comments. Tis true that the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater, especially if its parents are ugly. But I too am hopeful that something useful comes of LENR.

  26. E.M.Smith says:

    I have a wonderful picture of a shuttle launch. Except the beautiful pastel red flame is not visible. Not the red that sensor could see. In the age of digital cameras, judging temp from color is not likely to work. So I must trust that the temp sensor was valid until shown otherwise.

    For me, the biggest issue is that heat flux off a ceramic into free air is hard to calibrate. I would rather have seen a closed calorimeter of some sort.

  27. omanuel says:

    For many years we used the “red hot” glow at ~850 C to estimate T of Ti/Zr “getters” and an optical pyrometer to estimate the T of the Molybdenum crucibles in which meteorite and rocks samples were melted, up to ~1800 C.

  28. philjourdan says:

    I read the article independent of this post. So I came here for the comments. Cold water on a hot new product. But that is what science is about. Thanks to all for your comments. As the article said – a lot more testing by scientists, so it will not be coming to a store near you soon.

  29. aashfield says:

    R. Shearer the repetitious claim of Rossi’s fraud gets tiresome. He was exonerated of fraud but convicted of tax evasion. Hardly uncommon in Italy. He has a valid PhD from Bologna but wanted to learn more about industrial chemistry on-line. Is that so terrible? Do you normally delight in ad hominems?

    The color of the E-Cat in the image looks ~900C. I don’t know if the reactor was being warmed up or this is an illusion from a consumer grade camera. Several real experts have now commented on the radiation methodology used to measure temperature and conclude is was good. I would have preferred a comparison with another sensor, like a type S platinum thermocouple, and obviously some thermocouple was used for control of the heating elements. Why not provide that reading too?

    The isotope mixture of the fuel ash is beyond my expertise but I’m sure will provide others with grounds for another dozen theories. I consider it irrelevant compared with proof positive that excess heat was generated. Anybody know where the “mouse” now fits in the game?

    Rossi has long made it clear he doesn’t expect any trial to persuade the skeptics, but that only working commercial E-Cats will. He says he is working on the commercial 1 MW plant and will not participate in anything else until the is proved reliable. He has no incentive to give away trade secrets.

  30. gallopingcamel says:

    One could construct plausible nuclear reactions when Rossi was talking about reactions involving nickel and hydrogen (or protons):
    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/can-a-definition-shuffle-steal-cold-fusion/#comment-18571

    In the latest “ECat report” Rossi has pissed in the soup by introducing lithium. The fusion of nickel and lithium should yield gallium rather than copper. Given that it is claimed that the concentration of lithium fell during the experiment it follows that lithium is a reactant rather than a catalyst.

    It used to be “Where’s the Beef”. Now I say to Rossi “Where’s the Gallium”.

    I am totally loving this scam and continue to be amazed at its longevity.

  31. Ralph B says:

    http://aviationweek.com/technology/skunk-works-reveals-compact-fusion-reactor-details
    Mr Rossi better get off his butt…looks like he may be irrelevant sooner than thought.

  32. R. Shearer says:

    @ Aashfield, Rossi’s convictions were more than just tax evasion as if that is OK. But pointing out that one has character flaws and has committed fraud and criminal acts in the past is not an ad hominem attack if it is true. I had also raised several scientific errors that also point to fraud. With regard to a Ph.D. from Balogna, I say baloney.

  33. RobL says:

    I have looked at it and the more issues I have analysed the more likely it seems that the gain = 1 hypothesis is as strong as gain >1.

    Occams razor would then favour gain=1 rather than a collection of miraculously fortuitous LENR characteristics that include numerous transmutation pathways (fission and fusion of Ni and Li) without ionising radiation, or change in reaction rate as it goes from natural isotope ratios to essentially all Li6+Ni2, But my suspicions really shot through the roof after reading that Rossi bought 99% Ni62 isotope from a commercial supplier at one point – and that is why I decided to look so hard at the physical attributes of the device (thermodynamics/hightemp materials are my forte) – to see whether it was thermodynamically unambiguous that there was gain >1.

    The needless ambiguity of the test raises my ire, that the power input is so clumsily measured when it would be so easy to use series resistors, triac switched single phase AC, PWM DC power supply or etc with the same electromagnetic effects within the reactor. Rossi with his resources could get someone to make such an unambiguous power supply/meter in a day – but as usual he has chosen the dark path of deliberate obfuscation. Likewise with the lack of thermocouples or proper flow calorimetry – so easy when the gain and power output are large (eg stick insulation under it and heat a tub of water on top!).

    But back to the physical problems:
    -The major red flag is that of the inconel heating wire temp inside the reactor being necessarily <1300-1350°C (to avoid melting and realistically probably lower) while thermography is claiming 1412°C surface temps that screams out that there is a massive error in the calorimetry as would have to be even hotter inside reactor, rendering the claims of gain meaningless unless or until that error can be explained satisfactorily. Hopeful theories about refractories wires etc just don't stand up to practical considerations (joining them to inconel that will anyway be melted at joint, forming these horribly brittle materials, keeping them away from air).
    -Knowing that the alumina is translucent also opens up so many possibilities for errors – and the translucence is unknown and unquantified for the material used over the range of temperatures and for the range of wavelengths of emitted light created by hot embedded wires – claims of it not being a problem don't hold water due to the above demonstrated/known error in the reactor temperature. We have no idea how much porosity it has, how thin it is, or what surface impurities might accumulate during long term high temperature operation to alter emissivity/translucence etc.
    -I have identified a likely construction for the reactor (glowing wires wrapped helically around inner tube, but with minimal and variable wire contact quenching that changes with temperature due to wire movement created by differential thermal expansion, all encased in outer alumina shell), that without any LENR power gives the visual results seen during testing 1300°C+ wire temperatures, translucent outer shell only about 1000°C, and this only increases the strength of the gain=0 hypothesis.

    This could all be fixed easily by Rossi releasing more details of construction – even photos of cut-open reactor or just doing a proper independent black box test with good calorimetry. But as ever he is playing games due to paranoia, perverseness or worse motives. He could have made billions by now and the world would be massively better off if he wasn't persisting in his school-boy intrigues.

  34. Svend Ferdinandsen says:

    Exactly my point.
    “The needless ambiguity of the test raises my ire, that the power input is so clumsily measured when it would be so easy to use series resistors, triac switched single phase AC, PWM DC power supply or etc with the same electromagnetic effects within the reactor.”

    All the thermal calculations and the isotope measurements are a smokescreen to hide that the electrical power applied is not known at all. They should have used a much simpler supply (a transformer maybe).
    They state that they limit the no charge test to 500W to save the heating element, but with charge they put it up to 900W and say that 1500W more is generated!
    The resistance is in the order of 1ohm or less (~40A is said), and they use 380V grid, meaning the conduction time is less than 1%, which is very hard to maintain and it is even harder to measure the delivered power of these very short pulses.
    To show an effect it would have been enough to drive the reactor with same power input without and with the charge, and then measure the temperature.
    I do not belive this test to show anything.

  35. aashfield says:

    R. Shearer says:
    “With regard to a Ph.D. from Balogna, I say baloney.”

    Just to take one from your list that is easy to prove. You are wrong. That is to say you lied.
    As a liar your comments should be ignored. According to you, this is not an ad hom because it is true.

  36. R. Shearer says:

    @Aashfield, other than your claim, I have seen no mention of Rossi having received a Ph.D. in a scientific field from ANY university (philosophy is a humanity and not a field of science). I have found no claim that Rossi received ANY degree from the University of Bologna, other than from you. If you have a reference or references to the contrary then please present them. If I have made a mistake about this then I will concede this point, however, your call to dismiss my entire argument is indeed an ad hominem.

    @RobL, could you provide a link to the claim that Rossi had purchased 99% Ni62 isotope? The lack of other nickel and lithium isotopes in the ash sample is highly suspicious, but the purchase of Ni62 by Rossi would be especially so.

  37. omanuel says:

    @R. Shearer

    Enough of this hypocricy and post-modern pseudo-scientific garbage – attacking the scientist rather than addressing data and observations.

    The Ecat report is credible to me. I have a PhD in nuclear chemistry from Paul Kazuo Kuroda, a Postdoc in space physics from John H. Reynolds, and record of research publications.

    Several papers cited above also show beyond any reasonable doubt that the Sun’s pulsar core itself:

    _ a.) Made our elements,

    _ b.) Birthed the solar system five billion years (5 Ga) ago,

    _ c.) Sustained life’s origin and evolution on Earth after 3.5 Ga ago, and [1]

    _ d.) Thus supplied the force that holds each atom together to create the illusion of matter [2].

    As Max Planck noted, “There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together … We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” [2].

    I agree with Max Planck. Science and spirituality were at war in the old USSR under Stalin before WWII. Consensus post-modern science and spirituality have been at war in the rest of the world since WWII ended.

    1. “Solar energy,” Advances in Astronomy (submitted 1 Sept 2014) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Solar_Energy.pdf

    2. Max Planck, “The Essence of Matter,” from a speech Dr. Planck gave in Florence, Italy in 1944, entitled “Das Wesen der Materie” (The
    Essence/Nature/Character of Matter) Quelle: Archiv zur Geschichte der
    Max-Planck-Gesellschaft, Abt. Va, Rep. 11 Planck, Nr. 1797:
    http://www.greggbraden.com/resources

  38. p.g.sharrow says:

    Rossi has stated many times that he does not have a doctorate, He is an Engineer. I assume that means a B.A. You know, someone that creates THINGS not a theorist that creates PAPERS. pg

  39. R. Shearer says:

    @omanuel, facts and reason, that is all I asking for. You keep bringing up unrelated things, such as the mechanism of the sun’s inner core. And what hypocrisy are you talking about? Someone says Rossi has a Ph.D. from University of Bologna. I say Baloney as there is no proof of it.

    I have a Ph.D. in chemistry, so what, that is not what the argument is about. Rossi has a history of fraud. He has a history of making scientific and engineering claims that cannot be reproduced by others.

    Rossi has claimed that his devices, once up to temperature, run “self-supplied” whereby the reaction becomes exothermic and self-sustaining. If this were the case, then to demonstrate the generation of heat unambiguously, one would disconnect external electrical power to the E-Cat and use an independent external circuit for temperature control (cooling for example with air or water). That he says the E-Cat can do this but has never demonstrated it is reason enough to question the viability of the technology.

  40. omanuel says:

    @R. Shearer 17 Oct 2014 at 5:19 pm

    Facts and reason are the last thing you want. Precise experimental data from the world’s best labs show that government scientists have hidden, manipulated or falsified information to promote:

    The Standard Solar Model
    The Standard Nuclear Model
    The Standard Climate Models
    Big Bang Cosmology, etc.

    That you accepted while pretending to be concerned that an independent, unfunded researcher is confirming the cold fusion that Drs. Fleischmann and Pons reported in 1989 and several other PhD scientists later confirmed.

    BS

  41. aashfield says:

    R.Shearer,
    You wrote. “@Aashfield, other than your claim, I have seen no mention of Rossi having received a Ph.D. in a scientific field from ANY university (philosophy is a humanity and not a field of science).”

    That you have found no mention of Rossi receiving a PhD from Bologna is no surprise. It seems your “research” on Rossi has been browsing pathological skeptic’s musings on line. You appear to have little clue about him or the E-Cat. DO you really think you can’t get a PhD in a scientific subject?

    Mats Lewan wrote in his book “An impossible Invention” that Rossi “at 25 he graduated with the title Dottore Magistrale—a master’s degree—in philosophy.” It is somewhat different from younger Western university degrees, Bologna being about the oldest one still in business. His disertation was on Relativity.

    You might read Lewan’s book and also see http://www.lenrproof.com

  42. R. Shearer says:

    Aashfield, so you are admitting that Rossi does not have a Ph.D. from the University of Bologna as you had said previously? Will you retract your statement calling me a liar? Will you also comment on Rossi’s own biography where he says his philosophy degree is from University of Milano not Bologna. http://ecat.com/inventor-andrea-rossi

    Omanuel, please accept my desire for facts and reason. No where in my arguments have I disputed LENR or Pons and Fleishman. The fact that government scientists may have falsified information concerning nuclear, climate or any other models has no bearing on the veracity of Rossi’s work.

  43. omanuel says:

    Since WWII ended many experimental discoveries were discredited by ad hominem attacks like yours. Here are a few:

    http://judithcurry.com/2014/10/14/words-of-wisdom-from-charles-lyell/#comment-637652

  44. omanuel says:

    If you have evidence Rossi falsified his results, show it.

    Otherwise, apologize for suggesting that he did.

  45. R. Shearer says:

    @omanuel, the records of his convictions for fraud and tax evasion are a matter of public record as are results from TE testing that showed his devices either failed entirely or underperformed by orders of magnitude.

    Do you really think that heating a mixture of natural Li Hydride, Ni and some “catalyst” would transmute these to only Li6 and Ni62 isotopes?

    Rossi also claims that we need to stop burning fossil fuels to prevent CO2 from increasing in the atmosphere. What do you think about that?

  46. aashfield says:

    As I wrote earlier.
    “R. Shearer the repetitious claim of Rossi’s fraud gets tiresome. He was exonerated of fraud but convicted of tax evasion. Hardly uncommon in Italy. He has a valid PhD from Bologna(?) but wanted to learn more about industrial chemistry on-line. Is that so terrible? Do you normally delight in ad hominems?”

    You are still a liar.
    So I’m not going to waste time feeding a troll who just attacks with ad hominems rather that proving a point with evidence.

  47. R. Shearer says:

    @Aashfield, I hardly think that Kensington University had any on-line courses in 1979.

    And you may not admit your mistatements, but according to Rossi himself, you are incorrect about him having a degree from Bologna. http://ingandrearossi.com/ I guess the spelling of Bologna and Milano are so close it’s an easy mistake to make. Of course it is interesting that he cannot get the dates straight, 1973 in one place and 1975 in another. http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3197200.ece/BINARY/Rossi_degree_University_Milan.pdf

    And again, his degree is in humanities, not science, and his thesis advisor was an interesting fellow himself. Italian Marxist philosopher: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludovico_Geymonat

    In fact, it seems there are too many questions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Rossi_(entrepreneur)

  48. omanuel says:

    @R. Shearer

    In George Orwell’s “1984”, many small-time puppets like you were used in transforming science into government propaganda.

  49. p.g.sharrow says:

    I am interested in the comment that Rossi has added Ni62 and Li6 to the reactor. The early reactors seemed to me to have been enriched to about 20% heavy Nickle isotopes from the natural 4% level. The addition of Lithium was not indicated. The LENR reaction is not the same as standard fusion reactions. Fusion is not really the object but is a side effect that tends to poison the reaction as the new species created change the reactions needed specifications. The low temperature reactors tended to stall due to the creation of nonreactive copper. The latest high temperature reactors do not have as great a problem with poisoning. But I believe the elevated temperatures cause accelerated physical deterioration.
    LENR energies are derived in the dance of hydrogen to neutron to hydrogen to neutron etc. In standard Fission /Fusion heavy, Neutron rich, isotopes are excited to discharge a firestorm of hot free neutrons that convert to hydrogen. A one way trip that irradiates everything with material and life destroying radiations. LENR reactions, if done right, does not discharge hot neutrons. This is not a Fusion reactor per say, although some changes in isotopes seems to result as a byproduct. Usually a neutron “sticks” as a proton

  50. p.g.sharrow says:

    Damn, hit the wrong key!
    ….. so heavy nickle becomes copper. Rossi said that the high temperature reactor generally does not make copper and is much longer lived.
    I believe that any isotope can be made to react with the correct environment but some elements are more receptive to hydrogen packing. At very high pressures even hydrogen-hydrogen reactions are possible. It is always a matter of packing density needed to cause hydrogen to neutron conversion. H2 becomes D1 or back to H2 or H1 with a slight decrease in density pressure. Every time that the electron shell changes diameter 10 to the 6th power at the speed of light energy is radiated. Charge in motion, releasing gama radiation at relatively low energies. Not really fusion as it is understood but an energy magnifier that feeds on the same thing that creates gravity and the effects of mass inertia. pg

  51. gallopingcamel says:

    @omanuel,
    “The Ecat report is credible to me.”

    I can’t agree with you on this one but you are in good company given that a Nobel prizewinning physicist finds Rossi credible:

    The objections to Rossi’s LENR are the same ones that John Robert Huizenga, who died nine months ago, arrayed against Fleishman & Pons:
    http://files.ncas.org/erab/execsumm.htm

    At a more humdrum level, I am a physicist/engineer who was responsible for “Radiation Safety” for a small laboratory (~30 staff) working with gamma and neutron emissions capable of delivering lethal doses within minutes . Rossi claims to run a nuclear reaction producing 10 kW thermal which (coincidence is strange) is exactly the output of one of our sources:
    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/can-a-definition-shuffle-steal-cold-fusion/#comment-18535

    You will note that Josephson suggests there may be a way for “Low Energy Nuclear Reactions” to emit photons that are much less energetic than gamma rays. The only trouble with that idea is that it would require “New Physics”.

  52. p.g.sharrow says:

    For those interested, on my blog, see:
    http://pgtruspace.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/rossi/
    Be sure to read the comments for information that I have gleaned from Rossi and others about the Ecat reactor. there is also a copy of the Rossi Ecat patent application listed on my header of categories as well as other posts of information. EMSmith has several posts here with valuable information:
    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/category/energy-2/
    This thing is real, the question is, how good is it?
    “Plasma Fusion” has been a real nothing for over 60 years. hundreds of billions of dollars and millions of hours of the time of the best and brightest minds and they are up to 0.95 COP! maybe 20 or more years to get a positive output. Even GOD does not use plasma fusion to power the Universe. pg

  53. One thing I don’t expect on this blog is people calling each other liars and/or idiots. Rossi has however proved extremely polarising and we find people who belive him and people who disbelieve him. Belief systems are a pain in the butt when it comes down to analysing what has actually happened and whether this report we’ve looked at is valid or invalid.

    In earlier analyses a few years ago, it was stated that after a 6-month run of the first eCat that about 30% of the input Nickel had transmuted to Copper. The sample was seen to be particles of Nickel with particles of Copper (of normal isotopic percentages) mixed up with them. The process would have to be an all-or-nothing affair – if a particle of Nickel starts to react then it will all change to Copper, and until that point it remains totally Nickel. This is so far against engineering experience that I think we can state that that sample was seeded with Copper particles before analysis.

    For the current analysis, we are asked to believe that the reaction continued at the same rate (so it delivered the same heat output) as the quantity of actual fuel (68.077% 58-NI, 26.223% 60-Ni, 1.140% 61-Ni, 3.634% 62-Ni, 0.926% 64-Ni) diminished, and that when it was switched off at the close of the experiment it was still producing the same amount of excess heat when less than 1% of the original fuel remained (around 99% 62-Ni with 0% 61-Ni and 64-Ni)). Again, our normal experience would say that the less fuel there is the lower the heat output should have been. The alternative is of course that the reaction rate per atom does not depend on some normal probability but is inversely proportional to the number of atoms available. Neither of these proposals look anything like we would expect from any other system we’ve ever seen. The only way we could explain it is to say that the actual reaction would depend upon a component of the fuel that was less than 1/1000 of the mass, was not consumed and was very mobile, and could penetrate to the core of each Nickel-based particle yet didn’t escape out through the Alumina. This is possible, but extremely far-fetched. Given the previous example of the sample being modified, it seems far more likely to me that this one was as well. Rossi did after all handle the fuel to put it in and to extract the ash.

    Although it’s possible that the visible light photos of the tube might be colour-shifted, the grey of the Dexion racking does look to be the normal grey. Automatic white-balance would tend to shift the colours towards white in photo 12b, not make it redder. Those photos therefore should tend to make the tube look hotter than it actually was to the eye.

    The system included an internal thermocouple as part of the control system. This was not made available to the scientists running the test. The control system therefore knew the actual temperature achieved. From the visible evidence in the photographs, it seems very likely to me that the temperature achieved was a lot less than that measured by the thermographic video camera. Access to that internal thermocouple would have settled the discussion, as would attaching a thermocouple to the outside of the tube.

    My initial response was to accept that the professors knew what they were doing and got good measurements and that thus the proof that it worked was “good enough”. Since then I’ve found out more about the errors and looked more deeply at the supporting evidence and I’ve come to the conclusion that there was probably no excess heat produced and that the positive result was due to systematic error and some sleight of hand in substituting the samples of fuel and ash.

    Rossi may have a process that works, but this report doesn’t prove it. It is of course to his advantage to give out bad information about the fuel, the ash and the process to confuse his competitors if he has a real process. It’s even more to his advantage if he hasn’t got such a process. At the end of all the analysis, we end up having to say we don’t know either way. You can argue only on the basis of belief, which isn’t that useful.

    You can buy a guaranteed-working NANOR from Mitch Swartz if you want to prove that LENR actually works. Last time I looked he was selling them at $30k and has demonstrated them working at MIT (where he’s a professor). Dennis Cravens has demonstrated his system (with no heat or other input thus infinite COP) at the last NI week. There should be no doubt that LENR works. At the moment, though, I am doubtful if Rossi actually has a working system.

  54. omanuel says:

    We are each encouraged to give and defend our own opinions here.

    I will do so below since this will also explain my seething anger at arm-chair critics of new discoveries who helped our government destroy the integrity of constitutional government and enslave the public in the very manner George Orwell predicted in 1946 when he started to write “Nineteen Eighty-Four”

  55. omanuel says:

    Government science became propaganda after Stalin emerged victorious from a black-out of CHAOS and FEAR in Aug-Sept 1945 [1] to form the UN in Oct 1945 and expand totalitarian control of science and society from the USSR to the rest of the globe.

    Eliminating national governments and forbidding public knowledge of nuclear energy and irrational FEAR that gripped world leaders were surprisingly
    successful.

    1. Credible scientific discoveries were scandalized, blocked or discredited as science returned to the Dark Ages:

    2. Kuroda’s 1956 discovery of natural nuclear reactors on Earth

    3. Peter Toth’s 1977 discovery the Sun pulses like a pulsar

    4. Our 1983 re-discovery of information astronomers knew in 1945 – but hid from the public in 1946 – iron (Fe) is the most abundant element inside the Sun

    5. Fleischmann-Pons’ 1989 discovery of cold fusion

    6. Marvin Hernndon’s 1992 discovery of natural nuclear reactors in the cores of giant planets like Jupiter.

    7. The Galileo mission’s 1995 finding of excess Xe-136 in Jupiter’s atmosphere from rapid neutron capture

    8. Our 2001 discovery of neutron repulsion as a major source of stellar energy

    9. Fischbach and Jenkin’s 2006 discovery that rates of radioactive decay depend on distance from the Sun:

    http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/research/2010/100830FischbachJenkinsDec.html

    However, Stalin’s force of darkness cannot hide the energy that powers the cosmos, the Sun, sustains our lives, and totally controls Earth’s ever changing climate, because precise experimental data [2] show that the Sun’s pulsar core:

    _ a.) Made our elements;
    _ b.)
    Birthed the solar system five billion years (5 Ga) ago;
    _ c.) Sustained life’s origin and evolution on Earth after 3.5 Ga ago; and [2]
    _ d.) Thus supplied the force that holds each atom together to create the illusion of stable matter [3].

    And Galen Winsor already exposed these exaggerated fears of nuclear energy generated by governments after WWII [4].

    As Max Planck noted in 1944 (before Stalin gained control): “There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together …

    “We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” [3].

    These words by Max Planck illustrate how science, religion and spirituality operated before 1945 as separate paths to the basic truths that underlie all constitutional governments and respect for the basic right of humans to self-governance.

    Restoration of Max Planck’s respect for religions, science and spirituality is the key to restoration of sanity in today’s troubled society.

    References:

    1. Aston’s WARNING (12 Dec 1922); CHAOS and FEAR (Aug 1945) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/CHAOS_and_FEAR_August_1945.pdf

    2. “Solar energy,” Advances in Astronomy (submitted 1 Sept 2014) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Solar_Energy.pdf

    3. Max Planck, “The Essence of Matter,” from a speech Dr. Planck gave in Florence, Italy in 1944, entitled “Das Wesen der Materie” (The
    Essence/Nature/Character of Matter) Quelle: Archiv zur Geschichte der
    Max-Planck-Gesellschaft, Abt. Va, Rep. 11 Planck, Nr. 1797:
    http://www.greggbraden.com/resources

    4. Galen Winsor, “The Nuclear Scare Scam”: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ejCQrOTE-XA&feature=player_embedded

  56. R. Shearer says:

    Omanuel, why do you not answer my simple technical questions? You continue to bring up irrelevant red herrings about government conspiracies as if these had anything to do with Rossi. You accuse me of using ad homs and then you insult me and call me a puppet out of Orwell’s 1984. Orwell’s 1984 was fiction.

    Let me give you a simple one. As RobL raised above, how would Inconel survive conditions at which its surface temperature was reportedly at its melting point?

    Now you should know something about isotopes, as I asked you before, could all Li and Ni isotopes transmute to only Li6 and Ni62 and not show significant levels of any other isotopes? In the past, Rossi said that the mechanism of his device involved Ni capture of a proton to make Cu. How does this fit with transmutations that obviously do not now involve proton capture? What happened to copper? Rossi said that products of his device were detectable through their gamma spectra. Now there is no radiation whatsoever. No need for shielding, etc. Do you not find this strange, incredible, unbelievable?

    Rossi also claims that we need to stop burning fossil fuels to prevent CO2 from increasing in the atmosphere. What do you think about that?

    Do you claim, as Aashfield, that Rossi’s diploma mill degree obtained in 1979 involved “on-line” courses to learn about “industrial chemistry”? Why I don’t think that Al Gore invented the internet until many years after that. (sarc)

  57. R. Shearer says:

    Simon Derricutt, good catch on the thermocouple. Type K has an operating range up to 1250C.

    p.g.sharrow, I raised the possibility of fraud using isotopes based on the fact that high purity Li6 and Ni62 are commercially available and Rossi had the means and opportunity to “salt” the reactor ash. I have no evidence that he did, only suspicion. Is there something I am missing? Is there proof that Rossi did in fact purchase these isotopes? If so, I cannot think of a good reason why he would do so, other than for nefarious reasons.

  58. omanuel says:

    Typo-correction:

    Eliminating national governments and forbidding public knowledge of nuclear energy and irrational FEAR that gripped world leaders were surprisingly successful.

    Credible scientific discoveries were scandalized, blocked or discredited as science returned to the Dark Ages:

    1. Carl von Weizsacker’s deceptive concept of nuclear binding energy replaced Aston’s valid concept of nuclear packing fraction to prevent access to nuclear energy by Hilter during WWII and western scientists after WWII.

  59. p.g.sharrow says:

    @R>Shearer; I am not sure why you claimed Rossi purchased Li6 and Ni62″ nefarious reasons”. He has stated from the start that the Nickle used was enriched with his secrete recipe to make it work. An inventor must protect his “trade secretes” Specially if the Patent Office refuses to grant protection for most of your claims. A patent only grants you grounds to sue those that infringe, very expensive business. Rossi is not a government funded researcher, he is a privately funded inventor. If you want to know how this thing works. Study and learn. If you can’t, drop it. Time will tell if this is bunk or wonder.
    I am not pleased that you have stated several several untrue “facts” to use as a base for your arguments. If you don’t think it works, fine. To call this an out and out fraud is not warranted.
    Continuous attempts to defame with half truths reeks of Trolls. pg

  60. pg – although I’m so unimpressed by this latest report that I’ve changed my mind over whether Rossi has a valid process (I now think he probably doesn’t) there are still people showing real results. By making people believe that there is a working process, though, Rossi has stimulated research by a lot of other people, some of whom might find (or have found) a way of making it work reliably.

    I do take into account the patent problem and thus the necessity of protecting trade secrets, but the report just isn’t internally consistent and the ash analysis is so close to being impossible to achieve that I’d call it fraud myself. Yep, I can assign business reasons for faking this even if he does have a working process. These days there are lots of reasons for people lying to us, and protecting IP is a pretty big reason in this case.

    We’ll find out in time whether Rossi can deliver on his promises, but my opinion subsequent to this report is that the chances are pretty low. There are however other people who have shown good results and may get there instead.

  61. omanuel says:

    @R. Shearer, thanks for admitting, . . .

    “I raised the possibility of fraud using isotopes based on the fact that high purity Li6 and Ni62 are commercially available and Rossi had the means and opportunity to “salt” the reactor ash.”

    I have no evidence that he did, only suspicion.”

  62. gallopingcamel says:

    @pg,
    I found this quote from Rossi on one of the links you provided:
    “This will be in the United States. And I am honored to say this, because I reside in the USA. I love the United States, and I wanted for many reasons that now I cannot explain, to develop in the United States this technology. And I want that this technology is American. In Florida. And at this point, the very important issue now for many reasons is to push the price of an E-Cat very, very down.”

    I travel all over Florida so it will be easy for me to visit Rossi’s facilities if they exist. I doubt that he has even an office here let alone laboratories or manufacturing facilities but if you can send me the address I volunteer to go there to report back on the situation.

    Rossi talks as if he is undertaking the project using the “Value Analysis” approach. That might be the thing to do if E-Cats were expensive but you can’t buy one at any price!

  63. R. Shearer says:

    p.g.sharrow and omanuel, I never said that he definitely purchased Li6 or Ni62, only that he had the means and opportunity to do so and could have easily “salted” the ash sample. You either misinterpreted what I said or intentionally misstated it. If there had been isotopes appearing that are not commercially available, then that would obviously be interesting. The starting material contained natural ratios of the isotopes, not something secretly “enriched.” What other “untrue” facts do you wish to dispute? Do you also think he took on-line courses from the diploma mill Kensington University to further his knowledge of industrial chemistry?

    Sharrow: the rights to his technology were purchased by an investment company supposedly worth $billions and an LLC (Industrial Heat) was created to develop the technology. He should not be in a position in which mass measurements are taken with a kitchen scale meant for home use that is available on Amazon for less than $30. This is just as an example of the amateurish nature of his work.

    I have worked in both government and private laboratories. I have U.S. and international patents and understand the reasons and issues around these legal documents and that is why I looked carefully at his U.S. patent application. Claims that he made is that application do not agree or are inconsistent with claims he makes today.

  64. R. Shearer says:

    Gaollopingcamel, the “factory” address of Leonardo Corporation is 1331 Lincoln Rd., Miami Beach, 33139. see bottom of home page at http://ecat.com/ Zillow.com indicates this address to be an apartment building consisting of 2 bed, 2 bath condos of about 900 sq. ft. In the documentation I have seen, Rossi leaves off the “apt” number, although he sometimes uses “suite.”

    You might be interested in the following exchange because it deals with your technical area of expertise, as well as your state of residence. Apparently, Mr. Rossi was reported to State of FL radiation safety authorities out of concern by a Mr. Wright. The following is reported to be the resulting exchange of emails: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/docs/20120309BRC-Report.pdf

  65. gallopingcamel says:

    @R. Shearer,
    Thanks for that. I have a friend who lives within 15 minutes of Miami Beach so I will ask him to check out that address in Lincoln Road. If there is anything there it will provide an excuse to travel 200 miles to dine with him.

    If Rossi lives nearby………………. My friend’s first language is French but he speaks several other languages including English, Italian and Mandarin. He may come in handy.

  66. gallopingcamel says:

    @R. Shearer,
    That exchange of emails you linked is interesting because it includes filings by the Leonardo Corporation to the State of Florida. There is also a BRC incident report dated March 1, 2012 based on a meeting between Rossi and Jim Stokes (representing the BRC).

    This shows that Rossi was contactable in Florida in 2012 so it will be interesting to find out if he is still here. The incident report includes Rossi’s phone number as well as the investigator’s contact information. I will call both later today.

    The incident report found “On Site” radiation levels in the range “0.003-0.005 mR/hr” which corresponds to the low background found in most parts of Florida. The global average is ~0.023 mR/hr compared to 1.49 mR/hr in Ramsar, Iran. The radiation monitors in my laboratory were set to alarm at > 1 mR/hr.

  67. R. Shearer says:

    @Gallopingcamel, it appears that Rossi is diversifying into real estate having formed an investment company focused on condos in the Miami market. It’s not the robotic factory that he promised 3 years ago to make millions of E-cats, but it undoubtedly does result in some FL jobs. http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail/EntityName/domp-p13000050842-f727ddc4-a303-41c1-bc4b-aae94c3f6d13/Refc%20Real%20Estate%20Corp./Page1
    https://www.miamidade.county-taxes.com/public/search?search_query=REFC+REAL+ESTATE+CORP&category=all

  68. gallopingcamel says:

    @R. Shearer,
    Did I mention that coincidence is strange?

    Rossi’s Boca Raton office is two floors above that of my investment advisor:
    EdelmanFinancial.com‎
    7900 Glades Rd., Suite #310, Boca Raton, FL‎. Phone: (888) 752-6742

    I will call my investment guru tomorrow to see if he recommends that I transfer my life savings to Rossi’s ventures.

    My next visit to Glades Road is scheduled for January, 2015.

  69. E.M.Smith says:

    Looks like a nice condo in Florida to me:
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/1331+Lincoln+Rd,+Miami+Beach,+FL+33139/@25.7904374,-80.1426325,3a,75y,344.69h,132.72t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sL5FSuZXPBD0xE4hAy1p0Jw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88d9b487898b7783:0x2e8039b06c35978d!6m1!1e1

    If he’s high enough looks like a nice water / bridge view….

    Not very office / factory like. I’m a bit more thinking this is not what you do when you have a working machine to build, but what you do for a nice vacation / resort on some other person’s dime…

  70. gallopingcamel says:

    @Chiefio,
    Rossi hangs out in high rent districts like Miami Beach and Boca Raton. No gritty industrial parks for him!

  71. R. Shearer says:

    @galloping camel. it makes me sad that there are people who have invested their life savings and significant sums into his ventures. At least there will be some tangible assets to go after in the coming bloody mess, at least that is my opinion. We’ll see.

  72. @R.Shearer
    All too often nobody stands trial when scams are exposed. We had one on TV only yesterday involving medical insurance:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/thousands-conned-in-fake-health-insurance-scams/

    Here is a quote from the above report:
    “Despite this theft of tens of millions of dollars, no investigation so far led to an arrest and the scammers are still out there.”

  73. omanuel says:

    @galloping camel

    Are you concerned about government sponsored scams, like current efforts to obscure the FORCE that holds atoms together?

    In 1944, Nobel Laureate Max Planck described the Force that holds together the whirling electrons in each atom of a steel girder to create the illusion of solid matter:

    “There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a FORCE which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together …”

    “We must assume behind this force the existence of a CONSCIOUS and INTELLIGENT MIND. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.”

    http://www.greggbraden.com/resources

    In 2009 it was reported that rates of radioactive decay vary with distance from the Sun – the Creator of every atom, life and world in the solar system.

    The words by Max Planck illustrate how science, religion and spirituality operated before 1945 as separate paths to the basic truths that underlie all constitutional governments and respect for the basic right of humans to self-governance.

    Restoration of Max Planck’s respect for religions, science and spirituality is the key to restoration of sanity in today’s troubled society.

  74. @omanuel,
    One of the strengths of this site is that it attracts people who speak out against government scams such as loony energy policies based on windmills and industrial scale solar along with the related “Carbon Mitigation” scams.

  75. R. Shearer says:

    @gallopingcamel, hey I just realized that your advisor is with Rice Delman (or more correctly Ric Edelman). I listen to his radio shows on occasion. It seems like he runs a good enterprise.

  76. p.g.sharrow says:

    I fear that this discussion of the future of Ecat is moot. Rossi’s investor is a major investor in electric power generation. That generally results in the joint venture being starved to death to eliminate the threat of the new technology. Often in a storm of bad press. “Nothing personal” just a few million to protect billions of investment. The VC keeps control of the technology and the inventor goes on to other things. I have seen this happen before. That is why I have collected tidbits that Rossi has let fall along the way. The Ecat is very crude and most of the IT is public or Art secrets, so continuation cannot be blocked by a tollgate holder. Nondisclosure will prevent Rossi from further open publication.
    So, who is conning whom. Rossi refused to take any investment from real people or companies, and then does a joint venture with a large Venture Capitol firm. Puts some of the money he received back into the family business.The VC will put the Ecat effort out of business. We have learned a bit more, I hope.. pg

  77. E.M.Smith says:

    @P.G.:

    Possibly… But there are a large number of different tech methods showing anomaly in heat. MIT has a better COP. It will be very hard to prevent this from leaking. Also note that any patent can be gotten past with a ‘10% improvement’… so if there’s enough IP in the patent app to make it, then you change up some, call it an ‘improvement’ and apply for your new patent…. ( “Using carbon fiber containment for the reactor is a 10% reduction in weight with a doubling of strength”… new patent please…) Asians are stellar at that kind of game. So I’d expect any ‘end around’ to come from them.

    China, especailly, would be quite willing to slide a few $Million to Rossi for a ‘leak’ of some IP details should things ever get stopped up. Not the path I’d want to depend upon, but it does happen.

  78. blueice2hotsea says:

    hard to fake a megawatt…

    be careful here. a 2kW electric space heater running continuously for 32 days uses about 1.5 MW-hr energy; big difference between MW (power) and MW-hr (energy)

    Oddly, Rossi’s lab is supplied with 3-phase power, whereas his equipment uses only 2-phase. His prior demonstration could have easily been faked by feeding power via an “un-used” phase running through frame and ground return.

    Situation normal, AFU.

  79. omanuel says:

    @PG I agree with your assessment of today’s effort to hide nuclear energy.

    Is is just as an extension of sixty-nine years of deceit about nuclear energy, driven by fear of nuclear annihilation.

  80. omanuel says:

    Nobody alive now is at fault, p. g. sharrow, but the sad fact is just this:

    From a total news black-out of CHAOS and FEAR of nuclear annihilation in Aug-Sept 1945 emerged a decision to form the UN on 24 Oct 1945 to save the world by forbidding public knowledge of nuclear energy and taking totalitarian control of the world.

    Here is a brief summary of scientific discoveries that were discredited or vilified by these forces after WWII:

    http://suyts.wordpress.com/2014/10/20/and-yet-there-is-no-supporting-evidence-any-of-this-actually-occurred/#comment-150326

  81. omanuel says:

    @p.g. sharrow

    The author of a new book on the news blackout of events in Aug-Sept 1945 hopes to be able to report what was Kuroda’s real physics love – this important energy in the Sun that had not been described further.

    Kuroda indirectly described that in the title of his 1982 book: THE ORIGIN OF THE CHEMICAL ELEMENTS and the OKLO PHENOMENON [1].

    This mystery energy source is the same source of energy that powers atomic bombs and nuclear reactors: NEUTRON REPULSION also powers the Sun.

    Kuroda only left hints of this answer – perhaps afraid to say it more clearly than that. NEUTRON REPULSION was finally discovered and reported in the literature nineteen years later in 2001.

    Marvin Herndon, Kuroda’s academic grandson, reported this same source of energy in Jupiter’s core in 1992.

    1. P. K. Kuroda, The Origin of the Chemical Elements and the Oklo
    Phenomenon
    (Springer Publishing, 165 pages, Dec 1982)

  82. omanuel says:

    I do not understand the concern that Rossi’s results MAY be fake, and the casual acceptance of FAKE SCIENCE taught today as consensus science:

    1. Stars make and discard hydrogen.
    2. Neutrons repel, rather than attract other neutrons.
    3. The most abundant element in the Sun is Fe, not H.

  83. E.M.Smith says:

    @Omanuel:

    Well, it’s pretty simple:

    1) We (most of us) have a variety of topics we think about. E-Cat is one of them. E-Cat is NOT anything to do with a conspiracy about neutrons or atom bombs.

    2) You have a fixation with neutrons and atom bombs. OK, we got that a few months ago (or years ago). It is an interesting POV, and you have some decent evidence for your points (thus my tendency to tolerate the frequent OT comments.)

    So simply put: Most of use recognize your issue. We’ve evaluated it, and see not much we can do to change it. We thank you for the information you have brought; but we ‘got it’ a year ago… And we have ‘mind share’ to put on other topics, so we do.

    So for The Rest Of Us, this thread is about Rossi and the E-Cat. So for this thread, that is the thing we care about…. Not neutron physics nor atom bombs.

    In other threads, we might revisit that issue when there is something new. We heard you the first time. (and the second, and the twentieth, and the 100th, and the 2000th. and …)

    I’m not ranting at you, but it really would be better for your cause if you learned to ration yourself a bit more. Realizing that most visitors here are ‘regulars’ and posting the same stuff more than once a year is just saying the same thing to folks who already heard it too many times. We got it already. There just isn’t anything we can do about it. Hit the check box and move on.

  84. omanuel says:

    @E.M. Smith

    Thank you for the explanation. I will take time to reflect on that.

  85. gallopingcamel says:

    While I don’t have anything significant to report, I have spoken with the people who wrote the 2012 “incident report” on behalf of the Florida BRC:
    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/docs/20120309BRC-Report.pdf

    It took Jim Stokes more than a week to track Rossi down. Stokes was surprised to find that 1331 Lincoln Road was a condo. He was expecting a factory or a research facility.

    Jim Stokes performed an “Area Survey” that showed radiation levels consistent with background.

  86. gallopingcamel says:

    I have called two phone numbers listed in Rossi’s communications with Florida’s government. Both turned out to be answering machines so I left messages requesting a call back. Nothing yet…………………it will be a big surprise if anyone returns my calls.

  87. omanuel says:

    Thanks, E. M. Smith, for forcefully and candidly stating where many of us are today, five years after the Climategate emails first surfaced in late Nov 2009: “We got it already. There just isn’t anything we can do about it.”

    We awoke to reality about twenty-five later than George Orwell thought we would, in “Nineteen Eighty-Four.”

    I suspect some of us will find solace in prayers and ancient teachings like the Serenity Prayer or “Truth is victorious , never untruth.” – a common verse in many different religions.

  88. omanuel says:

    A video recording posted on Suyts Space reminded me that when the human spirit encounters forces that it cannot change, as climate critics have today, their creative talents may be channeled into literature, music and art – rather than science – as happened during a time of great oppression in the old USSR.

    http://suyts.wordpress.com/2014/10/24/those-were-the-days-open-thread/

    I was in Moscow thirty-four years ago, in November 1980 to present a paper on the origin of the solar system [1] at the Vernadsky Institute of Geochemistry.

    At the reception, the beautiful Russian version of the song, “Those were the days!” (From the movie, “The Brothers Karamazov”) was played over and over again.

    The current stand-off in the global climate debate shows how oppressive science has spread from the old USSR to the rest of the globe.

    1. “Heterogeneity of isotopic and elemental compositions in meteorites: Evidence of local synthesis of the elements “, Geokhimiya(12) 1776-1801 (1981) [In Russian].

  89. J Martin says:

    Do we really need ecat etc. The Russians are close to having commercial fast breeder reactors available that can burn the 400 year supply of nuclear waste we have in the UK.

    http://rt.com/news/168768-russian-fast-breeder-reactor/

  90. E.M.Smith says:

    @J. Martin:

    Thanks to them listening to Habibulo, they now cold is coming and they need the heat and electricity. Russia is going to completely dominate Europe as the EU follows the Green Insanity of AGW and the Russians build nuclear reactors and accumulate warm ports and warm grain regions in former ‘client’ states…

  91. p.g.sharrow says:

    Russian Fast Breeder uses molten sodium, as much a design flaw as the graphite block construction at Chernobyl. Trust the Russians to create a disaster waiting to happen. Besides a fast breeder does not reduce radioactive waste, it just creates more radioactive fuel out of stable isotopes. The amount of waste per energy produced is decreased and the amount of Radioactive material increases.I am certainly not opposed to fission reactors. They are by far the best game in town for inexpensive, dependable industrial levels of energy. The technology is mature and well understood.
    The Ecat technology points the way to passivate radioactive materials and generate some amount of power as well. At present this is very crude and not well understood. It appears to me that this is a way to really extend the atomic energy cycle as well as improve our understanding of atomic physics. pg

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