Greetings from a local Starbucks…
Shortly after “declairing probable victory” over the Xwindows hang issue, I found that it isn’t Firefox. Firefox “tickles it” far more than other things, but it is a bug in Xwindows itself. Further it shows up in Ubuntu and other Debian derivatives, and it, or something similar, shows on a search of Gentoo pages. Looks like some “improved” X-windows in a way that breaks things… but likely works well with their big new box. Sigh.
Then came the “double tap”. The DSL Router started acting up. Finally, yesterday, it looks to be substantially dead.
So I’m posting this update from Starbucks.
At this point it is unclear if the issue is my router (about 6? years old) or the AT&T service, that has flaked out a couple of times, but usually recovered on its own. Now its not recovering. And, from the “needs clue” depeartment, this AT&T branded internet access home boundary router has a support contact printed on the top. A URL for a web site that you cannot connect to when your router is down. Can you say “unclear on the concept”? I knew you could.
It will likely take a few days to get it working. First to contact AT&T, then wait for them to debug things, then go buy a new router, then find out that wan’t it, then… “Somewhere” in my packed stuff is a wireless hot spot. IFF I can find it and set it up, it will be a workable short term alternative. (it costs about double the AT&T line and has a much slower rate, but is fairly reliable). Comcast has an XFinity hotspot in the neighborhood, but it takes a long time to find the prices ( $2.95 for one hour, or $45ish? for a month) and it can ony be used with one device, so I’d be back in the “make a router” game anyway as I made a NATing boundary router so my other ‘goods’ would work (I’ve done this before, many years back, when other services were similarly stupid. The Laptop has “internet sharing” on it, so it’s a built in now for Windows, if the laptop were stable.
I’m starting to wonder if there’s an excess cosmic rays issue or solar flares… or if California is entering an alternate dimension… oh, too late ;-)
So that his posting isn’t entirely just a rant about tech on my part, a couple of topics du jour:
Some years back I had a bottle of old cheap cloves that had sat way too long in the spice cabinet. Looking them over, a couple looked “odd”. Larger lozenge like things. I had bought a new box and decided to “just pitch” this batch. But, being the experimentall sort, pitched it via scàttering around the garden squares. Now, about 5? years later I’ve got 3 trees growing that have leaves that look like cloves and smell like cloves when crushed.
What makes this interesting is two things. 1) Cloves is a flower, not a seed. Looking into it, the ‘fruit’ pods are those losenge like bits and sometimes are included in the spice (as a cheapening volume increasing agent). For “grow your own”, cheap cloves are better ;-) and then there is 2) Supposedly Cloves is a strongly tropical tree. 50 F lower limit in one write up, 40 F in another. These are growing in San Jose and have been well below 40 F, so something isn’t right… Maybe it’s the urban environment near the house, or more likely the tree is more adaptable than believed.
The usual age for cloves to flower is bout 6 o 7 years, so “any year now” I ought to be getting my first “crop”. That will pretty much prove that I’ve got the identiy right. The leaf shape, growing habit, and leave aroma are all correct. When chewed, the leaves impart the right flavor and do have some numbing qualityies (but the active ingredient, euglenol? is in several plants). At some point I’ll post some pictures ( I’d thought I’d be doing that now, but the Gremlins decided otherwise…)
I found a web page with other folks who claimed to have cloves trees, but they didn’t list where. L.A. or Miami would be more reasonable than here. Still, there are individual variations in any population, so maybe this is just a slightly more cold tollerant sport. We’ll see. Hopefully it will not suddenly get cold killed in a cold freeze. Even at that, I’d had 4 of them and chopped on off at the base 2 years back (as it was in a square that I wanted for other plants and can’t really support 4 trees 10 to 15 meters tall each in my small yard) and that root stock is resprouted. So these are sturdy plants that don’t give up if chopped down. Cloves coppice? That means it looks like my impulsive “Darwins Seed Scatter” let the survivors show themselves moment has resulted in a much longer term experiment. Farming Cloves in California…
Dementia and Weight
On the news was a “OMG” story about fat folks. Seems that the rate of demential is dramatically lower in obese folks. Like 25 or 28% lower. They had to split the story into two parts, since a 50% reduction in risk is ‘way high’. Part two was that skinny folks are about 35% more risk for dementia. That’s over 50% spread from skinny to fat. So when Ms. Obama says your kid is too fat, retort that he’s smarter for it and going to stay that way! ;-) On a related note, I’ve always thought many of those skinny vegetarian Uber Green folks were a bit demented. Now I have evidence to support that bias ;-)
WordPress Beep Bop Boop
Until recently, there was a ‘give me the old editor’ button on WordPress horrible Beep Bop Boop editor. That seems to be gone (and I’m not getting spell check either). Until I find a way to get the old one back, things will likely have “artifacts”. I guess they’ve decided to force use laggards to use their new more annoying and crappy editor…
Watched is announcement speech. First time in years I was driven to joy and tears at the same time. Maybe it’s that MY family had ‘service’ roots (restaurant work – cooks, waitress, me the busboy); but his story of starting from nothing and wanting that for the children of today was a touchstone for me. Mom and Dad and 2 kids arrived in California with an old Chevy and money for about one more tank of gas after WWII, and bootstrapped up from there. All us kids got college and decent jobs. Now I’m torn. So much of that field is attractive.
While the Libertarian leaning of Rand Paul call to me the most ( I’m not really a Republican, but a Libertarian ) I find the Rubio presentation, attitude, goals, and freshness compelling. Sort of a JFK without the money feel. (And, yes, I lived during the real JFK time and remember it, so this isn’t a reaction to the fantasy created since then). Young, idealistic, wanting ot make use BE what we idealize.
I’m also somewhat interested in Cruz and then my Florida Friend says Jeb Bush was a very good Governor. Scott Walker also has shown enough spine to be a candidate for putting The Federal Beast on a diet. Too bad the Republican Party Machine will chew up and spit out the freshest and most interesting of them and leave us with a hum drum tamed neutered lap puppy of the powerful (who want no change to the Fed Gravy Train).
On the Democrat side we’ve had the self announced corronation of Ms. Hillary as the heir apparent. So let here it for another 8 years of the Clinton / Bush alternating Dynasty and another 8 years of Obama lite… Do the Democrats not have anyone who wants this country to be what the original constitution said it ought to be? A free land of opportunty, not a Regulation Nation of Central Authority telling you to mind your limits and stay in place on The Dole. The One sold that dream to the nation and got elected, then turned out to just be a Socialist in radical clothing. That lie won’t sell twice. Maybe the Democrats can figure out that a Real Freedom loving candidate can make things better. As it stands now, they got royally spanked in the last election and folks are chewing their lower lip waiting for Obummer to be out and hoping he doesn’t screw things up too permanently until the next person can undo the damage and fix things. That context does not lend itself to a Legacy Continuance candidate…
Oh Well. Nothing I do will matter. It’s unfortunately in the hands of the heavily moneied who will be buying the politicians that THEY like and not what the Average Joe Citizen wants. Been that way since shortly after Ike was elected, IMHO. (He was a real populist who did what was best for the country, not his cronies). JFK was a good guy, but too embedded in the monied world and didn’t get much done before his demise anyway. Then Johnson was a Machine Man all the way and brought dirty tricks and The Machine to the Democrats. They never recovered. Reagan was a populist in the Republican side, and IMHO it almost got him killed. After that he was less prone to worry about the little guy and more willing to follow the party line. Then Daddy Bush was a Machine Man all the way (having long deep roots in the Party and C.I.A. background). Baby Bush was largely just an order taker for his side Party Machine. Bill and Hillary were bought and paid for as party line good party aparatchicks. Never venturing far from what their 3rd Way Cronies wanted in the way of money flows and policies. Sometimes I dispare that we the people will never get our country back. It’s now owned by too few families.
China and Russia
China is building a wall of sand (and new islands) in the South China Sea. Having defacto told the USA and neighbors to bugger off, this is now South China Lake. Russia is actively pushing the USA and NATO out of border regions. South America soon to follow. Putin knows not a single person will lead any country against any Russian push, so he’s slow walking into new lands.
Well, at least they are doing the dying and not US Soldiers. Once this is all done, we’ll either have a New Caliphate and it will be clear that Islam wants Andelusia and Greece back (maybe they can just buy Greece for the debt:-)… or we will have the House of Saud owning all the arabian peninsula (with Jordan as a possible exception / satripy) and the final Sunni / Shiia war can begin.
I’d not expect anything approaching “peace” anywhere from Algeria to Pakistan until that sorts out… Call it about 2050 A.D.
My Mocha is getting low, and I have a network to debug. Hopefully this is enough to keep folks interested for a while as I do my own Tech Support.
The next few months will be interesting. Both personally and nationally as well as internationally. I’ve also got a bit of work to do with getting that GIStemp station rebuilt on some release with a stable Xwindows. I need more time in each day, I think ;-) Maybe I ought to just get a job somewhere that will pay me to do temperature stuff… and has a stable internet and in house tech support… Nah… then I’d be a “climate scientist” and have to join the dark side, since they are the ones with the jobs and Gov’t grant money.
Oh Well. Back to slaving over a hot computer.
Thanks for the update. Brandon Smith is right: The end game has arrived.
This is my understanding of preceding events and the final conclusion:
You are right. This is the end game, but the conclusion was recorded in the scriptures of almost every major religion. So relax and enjoy the game:
We are confused now by the closing scene of a seventy-year (1945-2015) Tragic-Comedy because parts of the opening scene were hidden by a news blackout  of events #3 to #6 between 6 AUG 1945 and 24 OCT 1945:
1. Hiroshima was destroyed by the release of energy stored in cores of uranium atoms on 6 AUG 1945
2. Nagasaki was destroyed by energy released from the cores of plutonium atoms
3. Japan exploded an atomic bomb off the east coast of Konan, Korea
4. Stalin’s USSR troops captured Japan’s atomic bomb plant at Konan, Korea
5. Stalin’s USSR troops shot down and captured the American crew of a B29 bomber over Konan, Korea
6. The American crew were held for negotiations in SEPT 1945 to plan for Japan’s surrender and removal of the powerful rays coming from the core of the Rising Sun on the flag of Japan to hide public knowledge of the FORCE OF DESTRUCTION
7. The SEPT agreement was ratified by forming the UN on 24 OCT 1945.
Now in the closing scene, the scary FORCE OF DESTRUCTION is shown to be the benevolent FORCE THAT CREATED & SUSTAINS every atom, life and world in the Solar System .
We have nothing to fear, because the conclusion to this re-enactment of a classic battle between good and evil, selfishness and unselfishness is already recorded in the scriptures of almost every religion:
“Truth is victorious, never untruth!”
1. “Aston’s WARNING (12 DEC 1922); CHAOS & FEAR (AUG 1945) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/CHAOS_and_FEAR_August_1945.pdf
2. “Solar Energy for school teachers,”
Click to access Supplement.pdf
– Oliver K. Manuel
PhD Nuclear Chemistry
Postdoc Space Physics
Former NASA Principal
Investigator for Apollo
@EM re “WordPress horrible Beep Bop Boop editor” – yes – ugh!
Start a post – single word – and save it as a draft. Then go to the draft under ‘All posts’ and open it and you’ve got the normal editor.
Ha. I have in house tech support. An old friend I rescued a few years back. We are out to change the world. Polywell Fusion. Machine tools. A few other things.
You may as well quit despairing. Not enough people understand what is at stake.
I am beginning to sort out making music with software, so there is some creative spark left. As long as the wife makes cinnamon rolls and I can get coffee, I will be reasonably accepting of whomever the Illuminati put in charge.
Interesting about the clove plant. I found a pit in a container of pitted dates a couple of years ago and now have a nice potted date palm growing. Too cold in New England to put it outside except in summer.
1. Deceit was adopted as a worldwide strategy when the UN formed in OCT 1945 to:
_ a.) Hide the source of energy in cores of heavy atoms, and
_ b.) Save the world from possible nuclear annihilation
2. The Divine Humor responded: THE FORCE OF DESTRUCTION in cores of heavy atoms is THE SAME FORCE OF CREATION in cores of stars & galaxies.
That dementia study was based solely on Body Mass Indices, and I believe you’ve posted before on how flawed they are as a measure of whether a person is actually overweight or underweight. The researchers had no knowledge of the patients’ diets, and I wouldn’t be surprised if what they have actually uncovered is a link between lack of meat in a diet and dementia.
Appreciate your background. Marco has lived the story that pols on both sides love to talk about but don’t value, or encourage, in practice. Changing the government is worse than turning a supertanker. So you can set the tone and the stamp out egregious abuses and react to the world.
O set a climate of end-justifies-means big government with no possible repercussions for govt employees, and we see similar abuses across all agencies.
Setting the tone that the worse you perform the less money you get, and eliminating/streamlining regulations is publically rewarded, and you’ll get that across all agencies, after th purge of those who initially resist.
Watching Jeb conduct emergency management in two languages, and realizing all the earmarked money was spent on preparedness,was enlightening. No Katrinas here, in spite of as much hurricane damage in the aggregate during his term — no county was untouched.Not my favorite, but a good administrator who ran the govt here more conservatively than he talkked.
@ punmaster52 : So, what kind of software are you using for making music? (I happen to be listening to a track that I made recently for our choral group to practice with. My software even “sings” the lyrics!)
“On a related note, I’ve always thought many of those skinny vegetarian Uber Green folks were a bit demented. Now I have evidence to support that bias ;-) ”
As a vegetarian for the last 46 years, I can honestly say yes, there really ARE some crazies out there. The PETA folk come to mind…
One of the few minerals that vegetarian diets really do run low on is zinc, and low zinc gives one a sort of spacey, where-did-my-long-term-memory-go sort of feeling. Any time I notice my ability to concentrate and remember is flagging, I pull out the zinc supplements and in a few days feel more clear. Additionally, years ago when I was a skinny vegetarian, if I skipped a few meals, I would have large swings in blood sugar, get headaches and have difficulty thinking well. Now that I am a fat vegetarian (it happens with age!) I find that my blood sugar is more stable, no headaches, fewer concentration problems.
There are probably other factors. There have been reports that vegetables today have fewer nutrients than vegetables of some decades back. Personally, I find that believable when one considers the role of mycelia in making minerals available to plants. https://www.boundless.com/biology/textbooks/boundless-biology-textbook/soil-and-plant-nutrition-31/nutritional-adaptations-of-plants-188/mycorrhizae-the-symbiotic-relationship-between-fungi-and-roots-716-11940/
Re potential lack of zinc.
This takes us back to the periodic table… the body easily uses strontium instead of calcium when available (and even when calcium is available). Maybe aluminum is used when boron is not available. Maybe cadmium/mercury fits in when we are deficient in zinc …
it seems that cadmium/mercury is reported as a potential contributor to dementia.
Hey DonM! Very interesting point. As you say, organisms can often make substitutions with similar minerals when the best mineral is not available. I had never thought of the “what’s a substitute for zinc” question.
Smart people need more zinc and copper — so they say…
Maybe the rise of PVC water pipes and the decline of copper pipes is a factor in enstupifying people.
I find myself in close agreement with your comments on the presidential candidates. Sadly, I don’t feel enthusiasm for any of them. In the last two elections I voted for a “Write In” candidate called Boris Johnson who is the Lord Mayor of London. Given that he was born in New York he could legitimately run for the office of POTUS.
My “Hot Button” issue is K-12 public education. The likely winners of the primaries (Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush) both support “Common Core” which means they want the federal government to control education. Thus it seems likely that I will be voting for Boris again in 2016.
I have started seven charter schools which are controlled by the communities they serve rather than by state or federal educrats. The Woods Charter School serves YUPPY parents who want high SAT scores so that school ranks in the top 5 out of 350 high schools in North Carolina and the top 50 nationally.
In contrast the Carter Community School serves minority and “Special Education” students.
Until “Common Core” arrived we were able to operate without micro-management from state or federal educrats, just like private schools. Common Core changed all that. In 1996 in North Carolina a charter school proposal amounted to around 40 pages. You can read some of them at the Gallopingcamel website.
In addition to the six schools in North Carolina I am working on five more in Florida where I now live. Currently my school board operates one school in Osceola county and we have submitted five more proposals. The latest proposal submitted to the Orange County School district (Orlando, Florida) consisted of 973 pages and 244 of those pages relate solely to “Common Core”. If you want to understand this insanity better I would be happy to sent you a copy of the proposal.
For me the 2016 election is not “High Stakes” as I plan to emigrate to Estapona (Spain) if our next president is called Jeb or Hillary.
Well, that was “fun”…
I now have a new ADSL (DSL) router. The old one was frequently rebooting, and now with the cooling off time after being replaced, does not even light up “blinky lights” when plugged in. Also found one of two WiFi access points was fried. Literally. It had a burn track from the antenna into the chipset on the PC board inside, then a bit toward the power connection had a blown part that looked like an electrolytic capacitor. I’m suspecting some kind of power surge and / or leakage current fried it. Testing with a voltmeter show some significant voltage from “neutral” in the electrical outlet to the metal window frame next to which the WiFi Access point sat. This weekend I’ll dig out my polarity tester plug (lights for if your sockets are wired right) and go into the wall socket here to see if +/- are swapped (not normally a problem unless you have grounded the power to the case of an object… that ought not to happen with power dongles, but… maybe new engineers have forgotten the days when 110 AC was just two prongs and you didn’t know what was ground….)
So, one new router, and then dug an old Netgear WiFi access point out of the heap, er, make that “deep storage” ;-) and all is good again.
Also took the time to set up my R.Pi DNS/Bittorrent server again. (Typing this note from a Midori browser on that R.Pi. One nice side effect of the need to turn the monitor cable into an HDMI for the ChromeBox is now I can have a nice hi-def monitor on the HDMI output of the R.Pi. It’s rather like a real computer now, if just a bit slow.)
Still have one issue with the old NetGear in that it can not get software updates anymore, yet has an issue where it stops taking connections after a few hours. Likely will just reboot it nightly until I can replace it with something new, or teach the R.Pi to be an access point… (the Netgear does encryption where the other one is “open” and can only do WEP anyway and of an old enough type that a couple of my computers can’t link to it with WEP as they don’t support the old bit length… I think…)
At any rate: Stuff is up, I’m connected, and I have a nice fast network connection again. Also at least 3 boxes with decent browsers with spell checking and good keyboards. So that means I’m out of excuses for not catching up on postings ;-)
A couple of other bits learned:
If you install the Chrome browser on Windows, it installs a chromeupdate.exe that is perpetually running looking for upgrades even if you are not running the browser which means it is also a beacon to Google of who and where you are…
How to remove it:
All WEP and WPA are not created equal, or even necessarily compatible. Between the new Macbook Air (spouse) and newish ChromeBox and Samsung Note (me) and the gaggle of older Windows and Linux boxes, finding a setting that worked for all of them was not possible. Partly it was things like the oldest access point only doing some early WEP that that Mac didn’t like (I suspect a bit length disagreement… 40 bit vs 64 bit vs 128 bit) and that some of the WPA choices were non-compatible. (The Mac would only talk to the WPA Netgear once I told the Netgear to do both types of WPA… so the Mac was picky about what kind it liked).
Have folks been so contaminated by Microsoft style that they all no longer care about backwards compatibility any more? Sheesh…
Even if you have things plugged into a surge protector, ground faults can be an issue (I suspect…). Things were a bit of a mess when I got back here, with gear unplugged and knocked off perches… as folks used the power outlets for “other things”… so maybe that was not the cause and maybe some other thing caused the “fry”… but it’s worth remembering and checking anyway.
Having a “bone pile” of spare bits is really really handy some times. That “new” router? Well, some several years ago when I first set up this DSL link, I’d bought it. A “Zoom” brand. Try as I might, and with several “double check twice” on the configs, it would not go. So it just got put in the bone pile for “someday”. Went and bought the AT&T approved DSL router and it worked. So after a lot of frustration with that AT&T router now, and the repeated reboots, I thought “Well, might as well plug the DSL line into the Zoom and at least see if it can light the DSL light and confirm the line is live.” Imagine my surprise when it not only lit up the DSL light, but the “internet” light as well… Turns out my original config was Just Fine after all and AT&T has fixed their compatibility issue…
With that, time for morning coffee, then I’ll be back to review comments above and such.
Cubase. Went at on the cheap. I bought a Tascam US 322 interface because it came with Cubase LE 6.
Thanks! Just did that and it works great!
I AM the in house tech support…. buy your friend a round…
I’m not despairing so much as I’m observing and complaining ;-)
I find my happiness in understanding new tech and gardening along with explorations of history and old tech… and frankly don’t care much about what the “Illuminati” do as control is really an illusion. All you have is influence. As soon as “control” gets too unbearable, that turns into “passive aggressive resistance” and eventually revolution. So I figure we’ll go a ways down that “control” path until we don’t because enough of somebody gets too ticked off about it. (With luck, I can stay “duck and covered” in the garden through it all…)
I’m hoping it is a clove. I didn’t put any other remotely similar seeds there. Then again, we do have squirrels and they might have planted something from a related species. We have a California Bay Laurel that’s a sort of a relative and has very similar leaves. Just don’t know if the oils in it smell / taste similar enough to confound my tentative identification. That’s why I’m waiting for the flowers / fruits as they are definitive…
Frankly, I’d be happy with either of them since both are used in seasoning / foods.
Yeah, BMI is stinky. Folks start out skinny and get thicker over time, so it is “age discrimination”. Blacks have long legs and short bodies while whites have short legs and long bodies, so it is racist. And don’t even get me started on Samoans…
But still, it’s an interesting factoid to toss at all the food nannies and Obummers wife as they try to foist skinny as the new normal on all of us…
Glad you appreciated it. It’s hard sometimes to get folks who grew up in relatively well off surroundings to understand the different perspective from out in the land of dirt poor. For one example, when I was about 4? there was an old ’40s or maybe ’30s era car abandoned in the empty field next to our house. We were the next to last house on a strip of gravel road that ended at an irrigation canal. (Learning to ride a bike on gravel – it would be considered child abuse today… knees were significantly chopped up in my genes and I was able to live without bandaids on them, just lots of scabs…) Well that old car was on it’s side, and we would open the top door and pretend it was a submarine… among many other games. Never mind all the broken glass accumulated in and around it.
Sometimes it was a ‘tank’ and we’d toss “dirt grenades’ at it (pulling up a handful of orchard grass with attached root ball dirt grenade…). Sometimes it was a fort. Sometimes… Today someone would be arrested or fined or both. Oh, and as we were not in the immediate control of a parent, we’d all have to go to “child protective services”… Sigh. Most of my fondest childhood memories have, one at a time, been turned into crimes…
My Florida Friend regularly sings the praises of Jeb. I’m sure he’s a great administrator and would be a great president, but I’m just tired of dynastic presidency…
As I’ve mentioned before, there are vegetarians in the family. I’m an occasional vegetarian (in that I generally go with whatever is the dominant trend at any one time… from all meat diet with one friend to only plants with some folks to …) Lately less veggy and more meat, but it varies.
Plants grow better with added mineral micro nutrients (so Miracle Grow is your friend) yet many farmers just add the big three. N, P, K. Over time the available micros deplete. Then the vegetables have less. Using kelp ashes was the old way to fix it…
I think I mentioned that as a hypothesis in one of the Boron postings. That the biology is a bit ‘loose’ about columns in the periodic chart. Many enzymes are cages for an ion, and related ions can sometimes work sort of, or be poisons…
But yes, zinc is your friend and cadmium is very much not. Since zink is used in many many enzymes, cadmium screws up some of the very important ones. Especially causes bones to dissolve… precisely via that substitution action.
As the spouse is a teacher, I’ve regularly had an earful about Common Core.
I got a great education in a local rural poor school district as it was under local control and folks locally cared about the kids. Not a lot of fluff and expensive crap. Mostly blackboards, paper and pencils. Oh, and a few good old books. I fondly remember Geometry in high school. The teacher sat in front of the class and with an overhead projector started with a protractor and compass and straight edge (that we all had to buy) proceeded to derive all of geometry from first principles. The PROCESS was an education in careful thought…
Central Control of education is one of The Communist Manifesto main points. We need local control, not state control.
@E. M. Smith:
I understood your viewpoint. I’m not resigned and despairing, either, well, not most days ;-) ; I’m at a place now where I have time to explore my artistic/creative side, at least that’s what other people generously call it. While I wait with the rest of those who do more than watch American Idol for the revolution.
Just to let you know, I haven’t died, but our satelite connection did! We just got it up today but, now I have router problems. This is barely working tonight. THREE WEEKS without Internet! GAD! ;-) pg
I’m telling you, it’s cosmic rays or E-spikes or something… IIRC you have Line Of Site from a hill top on your property, but not where you live. I’d suggest looking at WiMAX with a cheap Raspberry Pi repeater on the hill top (see comments here: https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/rise-of-the-mesh-ings/ ) for cheap bucks you could likely get pretty decent service.