Advice On Texas For Those Ill Informed

I have no idea what coverage this is getting outside the USA. Here, it’s on pretty much every channel.

There was a “free speech” exhibition of “Mohammed” art, including cartoons. The idea being to demonstrate what free speech is all about, and make sure it was darned clear that here in the USA we believe in it. The Danish sent over some MP and there was a congress critter there too. It was held in Garland Texas.

7:45pm CT: Officers tell Gabriel Roxas that two suspects were shot dead. Pamela Geller spoke to to CBS 11 from lockdown via phone at 7:45p CT. In addition to echoing our ground team, she told a news producer, “I heard officers talking of possible explosions in backpacks and the car.” Sources told CBS 11 there was a report of a ‘grenade’ at an area Walmart but the Garland PD said none was found.

8:11pm CT: Joe Harn, spokesman for the Garland Police Department, tells CBS 11 two men pulled up in vehicle on the roadway in front of the center and began firing at a Garland ISD security guard. Garland Police returned fire and killed both suspects.

8:11pm CT: Suspects’ vehicle being checked for explosives. It is scheduled to be detonated.

8:20pm CT: Authorities tell CBS 11 that SWAT will escort 48 people at a time out of arena soon, but many are parked in a now secured area and cannot access cars.

8:30pm CT: Garland ISD spokesman Chris Moore says one of their security guards was shot. His name is Bruce Joiner. He has been with the district for 8 years. He has non-life threatening injuries after being shot once in the leg. He’s in stable condition at a local hospital.

9:00pm CT: Security guard Bruce Joiner released from hospital.

9:12pm CT: No press conference until authorities have cleared the suspects’ vehicle.

9:29pm CT: Muslim Response to Dallas Shooting. Harris Zafar, Vice President of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association told CBS 11 via email: “People need to hear a strong Muslim voice condemning this insanity.”

9:29pm CT: Suspects’ bodies still at the scene.

10:16pm CT: Joe Harn of the Garland Police Department told CBS 11, “We were prepared for it.”

10:33pm CT: Harn holds a press conference. When asked about the suspects, he said, “They drove out, got out, and opened fire on the security officer.” When asked about their identities, no information was disclosed.

10:34pm CT: There were reports of a third suspect but Harn said, “I don’t have any idea about that.”

UPDATE (just minutes after posting): Heard on Al Jazeera that one of the two security folks in the car was an unarmed security guard (the guy who got hit) and the other was an armed police officer. So it was one policeman who took down two Jihadi-wanna-bees. Nice Shooting!

My Advice:

To any Jihadi-wanna-bees who are ill informed about Texas: “Don’t Mess With Texas!”. Period. Full stop. Details follow.

My Bias:

I have family in / near Garland. I married into a Texas Family, the Mother In Law being from there. I’ve met a lot of the family there, and they are (mostly) spread in an arc from North Dallas, through Richardson and Garland, and down into a little more east near Tyler. (Some are up in Oklahoma and a few others scattered). So, in some ways, this is “home turf” by marriage. I know these folks. We’ve had BBQ & Beer. I’ve spent many times as a guest in their homes. It’s my regular stop when doing cross country from California to Florida (what, a dozen times now? I’ve lost track…)

What Makes Texas Exceptional – even beyond American Exceptionalism

When I first met my Uncle Ken, I had just proposed to my spouse-to-be. We had a receiving line at her parents house. LOTS of folks came. To Texans, a wedding is a merger of families. But it comes with “duties”… So I’m doing the “hello, nice to meet you.” and the “So you are the Aunt Jane I’ve heard about!” and the “Punch in the kitchen” and all. Along comes Uncle Ken and Aunt Penny. Uncle Ken had been employed in a prison. Not sure what all he did. Some of it was mechanical maintenance, but I think he packed a gun too. I think I remember a story of managing inmates doing some kind of maintenance. You get the idea…

I’m finally going to meet Uncle Ken. “Hello, so you are the Uncle Ken I’ve heard about! It’s such a pleasure to meet you at last.” His reply, typically Texas: “Hello. I’m this fine girls Uncle. Somethin’ you need to know. If you EVAh’ do ANYTHIN’ to hurt that little girl, I’m gonna’ hunt you down and kill you boy. Pleased to meet you and welcome to the family son…”

No, not a put on. Not a joke. Real, honest, from the heart, and certainly a “you can bet on it” guaranteed contract.

Now I grew up in “farm country” with a lot of folks from The Heartland who’d moved to California. Dad was from Iowa. I know that culture. But Texas “takes it up a notch”. Still, I was not surprised (much ;-) as I knew of these “duties”. Someone had to do it, as that is the right and moral thing to do; to assure the safety and happiness of the loved one should the guy turn out not to have the right stuff… Nobody expects to depend on “family services” or some police somewhere. “We take care of our own”. And he meant every word. Not just the “hunt you down” but the “welcome” as well.

I’ve had many a fine meal with them since. Slept many nights in their guest room. We’ve shared beer and ribs. Talked late into the night. A wonderful Uncle and Aunt. I’d do anythin’ for them, and they would for me, too. If it comes to be “my turn”, I also know just what to say in that Texas Receiving line too. And I’d be honor bound to mean every word of it. (Only one person is selected to clue in the new member of the family, but I’m not sure exactly how they coordinate which one it is ;-)

So that gives you a bit of a sense of Texas and Texans…

Lots of guns. Lots of folks who know how to use them. Generally only people who need it get shot… I’d be happy to live there.

Now the point here isn’t the guns. That’s for the next section. The point here is the tenacious grip on honor, duty, and justice. NOT law. While laws are important, and generally followed more than elsewhere, if honor, duty, or true justice require stepping outside the artifice of law, well, so be it. “Jus’ turn ya’self in when it’s done”… and take the consequences as the honorable thing to do. A very common phrase is “Don’t Mess With Texas!” and they mean it. I’d extend that to “Don’t Mess With Texans!” (and maybe after a long enough time in the family “honorary Texans too” ;-) It does tend to rub off on ya’ after a while…). There is a ‘hard nut of attitude’ that forms when honor and “what’s right” has been offended. A narrowing of the eyes. Set of the jaw. Hard knot forms in the stomach. At that point, it does not matter WHAT the surrounding context. A WRONG has been done and it must be made RIGHT. Period. (Consequences be what they may, that can come later).

So some damn fool thought our American Right Of Free Speech could be intimidated away as has been done with wishy-washy Europeans or other damn fools in the East. Sorry, son, that’s not gonna work here. Just starts makin’ that “hard nut of attitude” and then, well, somethin’s gotta be done.

Thus, the Mohammed Cartoon Festival (or whatever the proper name).

Yes, a deliberate up in your grill provocation.

From a Texas point of view, the “provocation” was Charlie Hedbo and Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons being attacked. Getting in the Islamists grill about it is a right and necessary consequence to preserve honor and rights. To inform them that “That don’t fly here.” in no uncertain terms. (Texans are not fond of uncertainty. Much preferring to clearly set out the terms and who’s on which side… makes it easier to aim that way…)

I’d also note that a very large part of Texas has German ancestry. There is even a dialect of German called Texas German or Texasdeutsch (Guten Tag, Ya’ll…) along with the largest Czech population in America I don’t think I need to mention the large Mexican population (many who came there through a lot of hardships including a few wars and sometimes running with Banditos. Nice folks, but no wimps. My best friend’s Dad when I was growing up was reputed to have run with Banditos. NOBODY messed with Sr. Enriquez.. ) The point? Texas was populated by tough folks from some places that already have a reputation for being a bit stubborn and independent. Then they chose to move to Texas, self selecting for even more of that. In a Texas bar, it’s an interesting mix of “need to show some spunk and never weakness” mixed with “don’t push it too far though…”. Not a place for the weak, or the foolish.

The Garland Event

Now that the stage is set. What happened?

Well, a couple of self irritated Jihadi-wanna-bees decided to take on Texas.
Like that’s gonna work…

One of them had been on an FBI watch list. Had talked of going to (somewhere… Somalia? Syria?… whatever) and joining the cause. He was chatted up and some Judge decided there was not enough to hold the guy, but they didn’t let him leave either.

Now what kind of stupid is that? You have a guy who says he wants to do the Jihad-And-Die thing and you force him to do it here? Hell, buy him a ticket to {wherever}. Just take away his passport and citizenship on the way out so if he does survive, he can’t come back. (The Texas Way would be to just put him in a field out back with a gun on the ground, and gather a group of friends to ‘help him to Allah’… He’d get what he wanted, and they’d get what was right…)

So having been tipped off that he was fingered, and having been prevented from leaving, he did the only thing reasonable to expect. He picked a target here. Being from Arizona, I guess he didn’t know much about Texans.

The news is reporting that the two of them (he’d picked up a friend) drove to the Exhibit on the closing day. They were stopped by a security car. They, and the guards, got out of their cars. The two Jihadi-w-bs managed to get on the same (drivers) side of the car and started shooting at the officers (one of which was hit in the ankle). Net result? Per one news agency (so not 2nd sourced) in 15 seconds there were two dead perps and one slightly wounded officer.

Did I mention that Texans have guns and know how to use them? That they have often been shooting since before they could ride a bicycle? (My kid’s first shoot was about age 8, I think… I was a bit slow at teaching them… I had a ‘BB gun’ at about 5… and could hit walnuts in the tree. ) In Texas, one of the favorite shoots is “varmint hunting”. Small rodents at hundreds of yards. Another is “quick draw” (often with bottles and cans on a fence, though I did it at a dirt bank range).

It is sheer damnable stupidity to draw down on ANY Texas armed officer.

When the shooting happened, the crowd inside was informed of an attack, and told they would be moved to a nearby secure building. The result? They began to sing “God Bless America” instead. Now in that crowd, I’d not be surprised at all to find a significant number were concealed carry. Outside, the Garland Police had also positioned a SWAT team behind the building, just in case. (Turns out they were too late to the party in the parking lot, as the involved officers had ended it ‘right quick’, and the SWAT team only got to do the clean up and bomb search…)

Now the point of that bit? That event was like an army. Not just the security guards. Not just the police. Not just the SWAT team. But the folks themselves, too. Right down to the attitude. Tell me to evacuate and hide? Hell, I’m going sing out loud! Those two nut jobs thought they were going up against an unarmed soft target like you get in Europe or New York. They made the mistake of Messin’ with a Texan. 15 seconds worth.

So when the inevitable wailing and sobbing in the Left Wing Dominated and Progressive News happens, trying to cast this in all sorts of bad lights, with FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) about things like having the event at all, or having so many guns in Texas, or how easy it is to GET guns in Texas (while ignoring these guys came from Arizona…), or what could be done better to coddle the perps; at least you have one (honorary) Texan point of view on it.

It turned out Just Fine, thank you. Free Speech was practiced. Some A-ho wanted to stop that and folks “did what was right”. Everybody can go home now in peace and happiness. (Maybe with a stop for beer on the way ;-) Let’s all do it again next month, but this time we need some ribs for the after party… Y’all come. (Boots and hat expected, gunbelt optional, spurs inappropriate unless you arrive on your horse.)

Somehow I think that strength of character and adherence to fundamental rights and truth is lost on folks who are not Texans, or connected to Texas in some significant way… Frankly, it took me near a decade to soak it up, and that was after growing up in a similar(-lite) country town with attitude. No idea how someone from back East could understand it from outside. But it can be remarkably comfortable after a while. Sometimes makes you want to sing a bit … “God Bless…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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58 Responses to Advice On Texas For Those Ill Informed

  1. M Simon says:

    When I was growing up in the aftermath of WW2 BB gun practice was held twice a week at the Jewish Community Center. Omaha (when we wanted to go to the beach we went to Carter Lake – which was in Iowa). Other than the JPFO that is all forgotten.

  2. M Simon says:

    You might find this Cowboy of some interest:

    Citizens Opposing Prohibition

  3. punmaster52 says:

    Sounds right to me.

  4. Kuldebar says:

    But, Pamela Geller? Even the Southern Poverty Law Center doesn’t think much of her, and that’s often a badge of honor more often than not, but in this case, it’s because she’s such a blatant provocateur that even they are embarrassed.

    Geller says she is all about free speech, but she isn’t. Try to ask any pro-Palestinian organization how equally free their speech is when it comes to speaking out against Israeli government policies in the Western Media. One will notice some differing standards, although there are signs of this changing within the last year or so.

    Becoming a fanatical hater doesn’t defeat fanatical hatred for the same reasons that declaring war on a tactic doesn’t actually prevent the use of the targeted “tactic” and only spreads it.

    Pamela Geller’s little community event was no grand stand for free speech or Great American moment, instead it was just more irrational hate mongering piled upon a seething mass of irrational hatred.

    I love Texas, it’s one of the few remaining still rationally American States left in most respects. It’s why I encouraged my sister to buy some acreage there; but outsiders coming to Texas to stir up crap should not be encouraged or applauded.

  5. omanuel says:

    Is there a viable nonviolent response to the violence of Islam?

    If so, that might produce more long-term benefit to society.

  6. BobN says:

    I was fortunate to live in Texas for several years, what you describe is exactly right, I love the people.

  7. Larry Ledwick says:

    Is there a viable nonviolent response to the violence of Islam?

    Unfortunately they do not understand “non-violent response”. It would be sort of like shouting in english to someone who only speaks Japanese. To communicate you have to talk their language in a way that they understand.


  8. peter_dtm says:

    the MP is

    Geert Wilders, a Dutch politician

    actually head of the Dutch moderate right wing anti EU anti (open door) immigration party.

    As such he is held in hatred by the EU powers that be and is portrayed as a Nazi (which he does not appear to b by any stretch of the imagination)

  9. M Simon says:

    Non-violence only works against the civilized. The British in India. The Americans in America. Gandhi was prepared to use guns had he had a different enemy. Look it up.

  10. vigilantfish says:

    Loved reading this. The Toronto media tend to see the Muhammed Cartoon Contest organizers and guilty of hate speech and provoking this response. I am glad that there are still places like Texas left! I wish there was some way to stem the expansion of left-wing repression of free speech!

  11. peterj says:

    Yes, God bless Texas. Now if they can just keep the job seeking nuts from California out, with any luck it will remain a bastion of freedom. Escapees from blue states can do more damage than any planned jihad from the Muslim world.

  12. Alexander K says:

    Great article!
    I like the Texas attitude, which appears to boil down to taking reponsibility for yourself and for your community. I was bought up by a father who instilled a similar attitude in me and my older siblings. My dad fought in both world wars as a front line soldier, a mounted trooper in the first and a machine gunner in the second. He didn’t like war at all, but felt that he had to fight to protect his right to a peaceful life. Many of my family members names are engraved on war memorials aroun this country.
    Here in New Zealand, we are seeing increasing numbers of Muslims, along with other immigrants, on our streets, which worries me a bit as I worked in the UK for a decade when the floods of migrants from the Middle East was becoming overwhelming. An English relative – my Grandad emigrated to NZ in the late 19th century – took me to a city in Yorkshire to have a look. No white faces, no women without their entire bodies and heads covered, all a bit scary in the land of my fathers!
    Here the Leftards go on about the wonderful ‘Religion of peace”, but there is little evidence of that.
    I have been abused verbally in a supermarket parking lot for parking wher a Muslim woman wanted her husband to park.
    I am not anti-immigration, as everyone in NZ ultimately came from somewhere else. My newest daughter-in-law is from the Czech Republic and I have many relations with European ancestry, as the English-speaking component of NZ society was never very English, but composed of adventurers from all over the world, including Russia and the USA. My wife is descended on one side of her family from Pomeranian immigrants who fled religious persecution and arrived here in a bloc in the 1870s. Many of my English relatives, who left the religious struggles of 17th century England beginning in the 1640s, ended up in the USA, mostly in Texas! The first president’s lawyer was one of my lot: the firm he founded has always had a member in the White House legal team, up to the current time..
    The Islamists worry me greatly, as they have demonstrated a total inability to assimilate into any society around the globe – a Muslim Turkish general said, after WW1, ‘we will ride the train of democracy until it’s has gone as far as we want to, then we’ll get off!’ Chilling stuff.
    The Texans who mounted and defended the Cartoon exhibition are examples of ‘the right stuff’!

  13. Alexander K says:

    New Zealand’s past is colourful, to say the least, and from my reading, not too different to Texas.
    As a rider to my comments above, it is interesting to note that the non-violent tactics used by Mahatma Ghandi were invented 60 years earlier by two Taranaki Maori chiefs, Te Whiti and Tohu, to stop the Europeans taking their land. The two chiefs, both ardent Christians, had built a model village along English lines, with clapboard houses with tin roofs, wooden footpaths and a civic water supply. The chiefs used English tableware and china, with furniture made by local carvers and their village was probably the most ‘civilised’ up country settlement in the young colony.
    When government surveyors pegged out approriated farmland, Te Whiti and Tohu’s followers would go out overnight and pull out the survey pegs and plough a single furrow through the survey lines. The symbol of this movement became the single-furrow horse drawn plough!
    It all ended badly, however, as the European settlers badly wanted the land and, employing various units of volunteer constabulary from around the colony, mounted an armed attack on the settlement, destroying it and jailing the men. Many of the women were raped by members of the armed constabulary, and to this day it is extremely impolite to mention genealogy..

  14. M Simon says:

    Alexander K says:
    4 May 2015 at 11:52 pm

    One of the people who mounted the exhibit was a Jewish girl from New Yawk. Quite spectacular in a bathing suit I might add.

  15. R. de Haan says:

    What about terrorism and 911….

    Watch the video which provides compelling scientific proof that the collapse of the WTC towers and Building 7 were the result of controlled demolition.

  16. Alexander K says:

    Sorry, M Simon, but the point of your comment and its realtionship with my comments at 11.52pm have missed me completely.

  17. R. de Haan says:

    I am convinced we’re going to need that “byond American Exceptionalism” to kick out the criminals in power and clean up their mess and restore our freedoms.

    The Islamic terrorist we deal with left handed.

    The crooks running our civilization into the ground is a different story simply because we let them get away with it.

  18. M Simon says:

    Alexander K says:
    5 May 2015 at 1:39 am

    Alexander K says:
    4 May 2015 at 11:52 pm

    The Texans who mounted and defended the Cartoon exhibition are examples of ‘the right stuff’!

  19. R. de Haan says:

    In regard to the assault on our freedoms there is no difference between Islamic terrorists and our Governments.

  20. M Simon says:

    R. de Haan says:
    5 May 2015 at 1:36 am

    Drug smuggling and 9/11:

    Or watch the movie Air America. Or read McCoy – The Politics of Heroin.

  21. omanuel says:

    This is my #1 goal: To end the rule by world tyrants who incite racial or religious violence to stay in power.

    Martin Luther King, Jr. had this to say about the futility of violence.

    “The limitation of riots, moral questions aside, is that they cannot win and their participants know it. Hence, rioting is not revolutionary but reactionary because it invites defeat. It involves an emotional catharsis, but it must be followed by a sense of futility.”

    ― Martin Luther King, Jr.

  22. DocMartyn says:

    during the Glasgow Airport terrorist attack a member of the public kicked a terrorist in the testicles so hard that the poor man broke his toe.

    Texas, my home, where visitors to an art show outgun terrorists.

  23. gallopingcamel says:

    Thanks to “Political Correctness” we have a situation that allows a minority (e.g. Islamists) to believe that they can prevent the majority from mocking the prophet Mohammed or anyone else.

    Thank you Texas in general and Garland in particular for showing that politically correctness is not acceptable and that the first amendment still means something even if our ruling elite disrespects it.

    Another minority (Gays and Lesbians) thinks it can redefine what “Marriage” has meant throughout history. They need to understand that no matter what the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) says, the definition of marriage will not change. It is up to gays and lesbians to create new institutions to enshrine their relationships because the majority will never accept the redefinition of marriage.

    Thank God for Texas! When I arrived in New Jersey in 1982, I was hoping to find some rugged individualism or even a remnant of the “Frontier Spirit”. To my dismay I found the same entitlement mentality that infused my own country (the United Kingdom) following the election of Clement Attlee in 1945. As a consequence the UK is no longer a great nation. Why would the USA want to emulate that decline?

  24. E.M.Smith says:


    Folks also forget when kids in high school were on shooting teams and brought their rifles to school to practice…

    When I was in high school ( 68-71) there was an interesting occurrence every fall. The first day of Pheasant Season, at the last bell, all the guys would run to the parking lot (field) in front of the high school and put on their bright orange vests and check their shotguns (typically in the trunk of the car) and head out to the various farms and fields to hunt….

    Now imagine what would happen today at the sight of a hundred high school boys checking their shotguns and ammo in the school parking lot….

    BTW, we never had even ONE shooting at any school in the entirety of living memory in my town.

    And yes, interesting COP… (BTW, I’ve removed the block on M.J. terms.. but be prudent…)


    Well, it’s as “right” as I can make it. Honest and clear, I hope.


    Please note that I care not one whit about the person only about what is right and correct.

    So any slander “to the person” is of no value at all. Even an idiot can have some things right, and even an evil bastard can have some moral directions. Random though they may be.

    Also, I saw an interview with Pamela Geller on (IIRC Al Jazeera, though it might have been CNN) and agreed with every word she said. She called the interviewer on every “trap question” and returned to the basic point that Freedom Of Speech is for speech you revile. If F.O.S. is only for that speech with which the majority agrees, it is nothing. Liked her spunk. Liked her not letting the interviewer buffalo her or get in “digs by bias words”. Now I don’t know a thing about her, but at this point I’m with her and find your assertions kind of irrelevant.

    Oh, and per Poverty Law Center: IMHO they are ambulance chasing slime merchants. I’d not use them as an “appeal to authority”. Sure, they took down the KKK. And after that have managed to pervert many fundamental rights in the name of pseudo-justice… Not what I’d see as a good trade off.

    Per “irrational hate mongering”: Ah, no. I have had a rather cute (IMHO) idea for a series of Mohammed cartoons. I’ve deliberately NOT drawn nor published them due to not wanting to die a horrible death. IF that is not “chilling effect on free speech” I don’t know what is. So I strongly applaud the cartoon fest. It is in no way “hate mongering”. I just wish I had the courage to submit an offering and show up. (Rather than my vague hints about “Ed, Mo’ Ham” the pig with turban and beard… ) So yes, I personally feel the loss of freedom of speech in this country. And defense against that is not “hate mongering”.




    Thanks for the “2nd”. I try to be accurate in everything, but it is still of value to have an outside opinion saying I got it right…

    @Larry Ledwick:

    And to Oscar’s point…

    Long ago I formed the philosophy of “Be The Mirror”. On the one hand, it is a shallow rule that says to act to others as they act to you. But a deeper point is in it. That is that “People only understand at their own level.”. I formed this when working in the Psych Ward of Sacramento Medical Center.

    A Nurse was talking to a Doctor in quiet professional tones. I was working over the medical record. A patient (in those damnable backless gowns) approached. The Nurse turned to the patient and in gruff loud tones say “GET BACK TO YOUR ROOM!”…

    Then went back to the Dr. in quiet respectful tones…

    After they were done I asked the nurse why she was loud and mean, and not quiet and polite to the patient. Her answer was that the patient was unable to understand the words and would only hear “Nice nice nice nice nice nice nice” and stay in the Dr. Lounge where she ought not be, but would understand the angry tone, and react accordingly. That was the moment when I realized that you can only communicate with someone at THEIR level, not yours.

    So I now “level” against folks at their level, whatever that may be. It has worked wonderfully for about 40 years now. (Though once, at a tech company, my new boss and I were both “leveling” against each other at about 2nd year college… and slowly would each level a bit higher and faster… until we were “cooking” at a very high baud rate and high language level. It was amusing as we each went up a bit, and then again, and again, and… )

    This is something I wish I’d have understood in my childhood through High School. I’d have had far fewer violent events. Simply put: Saying “please stop hitting me, that’s rude” is not communicating at the level of the attacker. They only speak violence, so the only way to communicate with them is via violence. A “swift kick in the balls”, they understand.

    So I’ve tried “non-violence” and it just gets both cheeks slapped and a kick in the butt if the person does not understand it. The Jihadi types choose to only “speak violence”, so the best way to communicate with them is either a .45 ACP or a .308 NATO Full Auto. (Though some may assert that the 9mm Parabellum is as good as the .45 ACP at such communication, I would assert they are naive, and only the .40 S&W comes close… ;-)

    Once you understand “Be The Mirror”, it is remarkably easy (and effective) in all sorts of circumstances. From a gang banger getting in your grill, to a Jihadi, to a polite discourse at a rich club. When in Rome, or Libya…

    #Weshootback #Ishootfastest ;-)


    Thanks for the info.

    BTW, I’ve noticed that the International Socialists have little sense of humor and less sense of history, often calling “Right Wing Nazi” while not understanding at all that Nazi were Socialists….


    Thanks for the support.

    To counter folks who assert wrong is right, simply state the truth baldly.

    When someone calls truth “hate speech” ask “what is love speech about war?” and “How can the truth be hate?” and “how can you describe evil without hate and have it not be a lie?” You get the idea.

    Don’t give in to the easy path of accepting the lie to avoid discomfort. Ask: “If Muslims can say it is hate speech to criticize raping women in Somalia, why can’t Jews say it is hate speech to chant ‘kill the Jews’?” Never let the hypocrisy have a rest in an uneasy silence.


    I’m of two minds about that… On the one hand, you are clearly correct about Left Wing Nuts moving to where they have not already destroyed jobs…. OTOH, I’m from California and want to escape!…

    Back in a minute for the rest of the comments… I need another beer ;-)

  25. M Simon says:

    gallopingcamel says:
    5 May 2015 at 5:14 am

    And let me add that Prohibition will never end and segregation forever.

    Sentiments change. Marriage as an institution was not, and never could have been changed/”destroyed” by gays. That was done quite handily by no fault divorce. I’m not a Christian. Never have been a Christian. Never will be etc. But you guys who are should listen to Jesus (or whoever). Divorce destroys marriage. Worse it destroys family. The destruction of marriage destroys civilizations. Why? Well men produce. And when you have destroyed the incentive for 80% of men to produce (for the wife, for the kids) it is just a waiting game.

    “If they can get you to ask the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.” – Thomas Pynchon.

    We believed in a fairy tale. That men are cads and women are unique in virtue. Well not exactly. Women want the thrill of the Alpha. And if you can’t give it she will go looking. Esp. now when no fault divorce gives her advantages. There is very little cost to her for leaving her dull provider to go “find herself”. Used to be she wound up on the street. Now she gets at least half the house and half his income.

    Women were disadvantaged to provide stable families. Was it fair. Of course not. Did it work? Tolerably. Was everybody happy. No way. But it was an engine. Some parts (most?) were suboptimized to maximize output. We are now seeking perfection. It will end badly. Because women’s perfection is not man’s.

    Reread “The Taming of the Shrew” or watch Burton/Taylor. It is all in there.

    I don’t think we will be going back to that happy/dismal era.

    The question then becomes – can a monkey tribe social structure maintain an advanced civilization?

  26. M Simon says:

    E.M.Smith says:
    5 May 2015 at 6:08 am

    COP and I have been ‘net friends for years. He was a founder of LEAP. I did the first ever print/’net article on LEAP. Most of the other founders have forgotten. I was writing for Sierra Times (now defunct) back then. He remembers. A stand up guy. I still exchange private e-mails with him. He is a libertarian.


    Most of the wars – past and present have been in part at least about the control of the secret infrastructure. ‘Nam was about the Hmong. And the dust up post 9/11 was about Afghanistan. My take is that that whole mechanism has become inconvenient. Thus the legalization movement in the US – spreading to the rest of the world. I would put good odds on Rand Paul becoming our next President. He has given indications that he will play ball with the powers and they are looking to end the run of the secret game as it is currently played. No doubt they have a new game in mind. I’m not sure what it is. But they no longer need the old game so much. Its power was derived from the spread of misery. And in their own way they like to think of themselves as moral people.

    We are lucky that “our b’tards” recoil at mass murder. Not murder. Or any other dark dealings. But mass murder is not to their taste. Thank The Maker for small favors.


    As for MJ? Well you have more endocannabinoid receptors in your body than any other kind. It ought to be a subject for discussion. It is a fascinating system. Because of its retrograde signaling features it appears to regulate every other system in the body. Another reason the powers are letting go of control. Health food. Medicine. And the hangovers are less onerous than from a drunk. And of course the shift is in part because of the new billionaires. Bill Gates? Steve Jobs? and the rest.

    Besides. We now understand addiction. People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers. You don’t “catch” addiction from drugs. You catch it from trauma. Prohibition is a war on the traumatized. Not very civilized. Or compassionate. All the symptoms we ascribe to drugs are also symptoms of PTSD. Probably not totally. The drugs do have side effects. But generally.

  27. M Simon says:

    P. Geller,

    I used to read/comment on her blog “Atlas Shrugs” profusely. Our only difference back then was Prohibition. I don’t know where she stands on that these days. Probably moved with the times. And Raphael Mechoulam.

    Here is her old blog:

    Now she is at:

    CNN/Haroon Mohgul warns about her;

    The usual: she was inciting the jihadis. She wanted them dead (probably true in some sense).

  28. M Simon says:

    R. de Haan says:
    5 May 2015 at 1:56 am

    Thanks for reminding me why I no longer visit “Zero Hedge”. A cesspool of Jew haters and conspiracy mongers. A change in technology (shale oil) is a conspiracy of the Federal Reserve and the Joooos. Spare me. The people that used to frequent it 10 years ago used to have some brains. Now all you get is reflexes.

    On an article about the Saudis they do ask a relevant question. What price does oil have to be at to maintain the game? Venezuela has already gone past the limit. And a LOT of people think the number is higher for Iran ($100 a bbl) than for the Saudis ($70 a bbl). But no mention of Venezuela. Just the Joooos and the Federal reserve. Idiots.

  29. E.M.Smith says:

    @Alexander K:

    Glad you liked it. It’s all ‘truth from the heart’.

    Interesting perspective on N.Z. and the history there.

    Do not ever expect Islam to absorb the local culture. It can not. Its in their book.

    @R. de Haan:

    I watched the 2nd plane hit on live TV and saw the collapse as it happened. It’s not the result of some controlled explosion. It’s was just impact. Fire. And slow weakening of steel in fire.

    The building was a stressed skin thin shell structure just at the edge of not working. Like standing on top of an empty soda can. Then punch the sides with your fingers and it flattens…

    I’m also not fond of your “left handed” remark… I’m ambidextrous and have a left handed sister…


    I used to think violence was futile… except I kept seeing it win.

    Now I see it as the one thing that works with folks who speak only violence.

    Need I point out that M.L.King died? By violence.


    Oh my aching toe! ;-)


    There is a global socialist movement. It did not die when the USSR collapsed, it just went underground.

    That’s why.

    @M. Simon:

    Interesting comments. I’ll have to let them wait for tomorrow as I’m about to fall asleep at the keyboard… but just note that the Celts had several types of marriage. You could grade it by number of years, or with / without sharing of property either way, and it was easy to end / exit.

    The “till death do we part” was a new innovation. I’m not sure it worked out all that well… My parents stayed together well past the “sell by date” and I think everyone would have been happier if they had not.

  30. Julian Jones says:

    E. M. : All three monotheistic creeds are infantile in their differences to some degree. There is an exception within Islam, some schools of Sufism are extremely tolerant – a philosophy that predates Islam (maybe originating from the Magi) that adopted Islamic practices to survive. They still prevail in a few enclaves and are successful.

    Violence may give an illusion of some short term gain – but in the longer term, surely “Blessed are the meek …” ?

  31. M Simon says:

    And the contest winner is:

    It was left to Geller and Freedom Defense Initiative co-founder Robert Spencer to announce the contest winner, Bosch Fawstin, who was raised Muslim but now says he worships at the church of Ayn Rand. The platinum-blond Fawstin talked about growing up Muslim and his realization it wasn’t for him. He talked about the new comic he’s working on, a superhero dressed in pigskin, practicing “pigotry.” Muslim mistreatment of gays, he said, is another reason he draws Muhammad. “You tell me I cannot draw Mohammad,” he said. “I will draw Mohammad!”

  32. E.M.Smith says:

    @M. Simon:

    I searched the page and comments that R. De Haan linked for “jew” and found not one. I suspect you are overplaying the antisemitism “for effect”.

    Please realize I have Jewish family and friends, so I’m sensitive on antisemitism myself. I’m also not particularly enamored of Zero Hedge due to the persistent doom saying and as persistent assertion of grand conspiracy like behaviours. Now some of that “conspiracy” talk is justified, since we have known meetings of the involved parties and coordinated policies (then again, that’s often their job…). But the persistent “collapse is just around the corner” wears thin after a decade or two… kind of like Global Warming that isn’t…

    And yes, on the infrequent times I’ve gone there in the past there has been an occasional anti-Jew comment (usually about bankers) that seemed more anti-banker to me. I suspect that comes with the turf once you have a large number of Jewish bankers, which we do. To me, it has not risen to the level of concern; and, frankly, it’s hard to police all the comments of everyone to a blog. Even here. As you may have noticed, attempts to keep things orderly, polite, and on-topic can cause folks to get grumpy… so many (most?) sites just let it be a free-for-all. I’m not sure I can fault them, given how much work and bother the alternative becomes.

    So, while NOT particularly a defense of Zero Hedge, I have found occasional useful information there, and it certainly gives an alternative POV that causes thought. But I’ve personally not seen the “cesspool” you assert. So perhaps you can cut back on slandering other sites? I don’t need a hoard of True Believers descending on my site to defend theirs…

  33. E.M.Smith says:

    @julian Jones:

    I generally prefer “Blessed are the polite”… being meek just gets your ass kicked. Yes, I’ve tried it.

    When confronted with aggression that can not be avoided, I shift to “Mirror Time”. Tit for tat escalation. Force met with counter force. Works remarkably well, which is why ALL police us it and why ALL armies are based on it and why it makes the foundation of all government maintenance. I don’t have to like a thing to observe that it works.

    So in those contexts, I shift to “Blessed are the polite, but the well armed polite survive better.”

    The basic problem is lack of a common social reference “language”. What one sees as polite, another seeks as meek. What one sees as meek-is-nice, the other sees as meek-is-target. Now I’d rather raise their consciousness level to understand that polite is best. That, unfortunately, is often impossible. (For many reasons ranging from lack of brains on their part, to lots of brains but no morals, to broken but deeply held paradigms, to lots of brains and a overwhelming desire to attack you, to…) Some folks only understand violence and only want to speak violence. The bottom line, though, is the same:

    If you can not get them to speak your language on your cultural terms, you must speak their language on their cultural terms. And that is “violence to halt violence”.

    Yes, it is a ‘last resort’. I’ve diffused many more difficult situations with social skills than with violence. Yet from time to time the obvious display of willingness to “go there” has kept away many situations headed toward a bad outcome. It really is best to be flexible in that regard.

    Or put another way: If you find yourself on a beach in a Muslim country with ISIS followers, you will keep your head longer with a nice set of armament than with kind words and a meek surrender.

  34. M Simon says:

    E.M.Smith says:
    5 May 2015 at 4:12 pm

    It varies by page. It is true that page was pretty clean but the page I also discussed about the Saudis was full of it. And it has been a recurring theme there for years.

    I just went back and looked at the Saudi page

    It is now a lot cleaner than I remember. Maybe they are doing some moderation there. Good for them.

  35. cdquarles says:

    Dang straight. As a born and raised Southerner, who remembers Jim Crow and a whole lot more; let me say that that attitude ain’t jus’ Texan. Don’t Mess with the Old South. Old times there are NOT forgotten. Sure, there was a lot of wrong done in the Old South, too; but, ordered liberty comes first.

  36. Alexander K says:

    Hi Chiefio! Thanks for your reply re New Zealand.
    You are dead on the money about turning the other cheek – I was the fat kid with one (inherited) wonky eye at school, so I reacted initially to the inevitable ridicule by turning the other cheek, which tended to get me slapped even harder by the stronger and nastier kids, so I selected the persona of ‘the entertaining idiot’. which got me through school unscathed with my peer group, but almost destroyed my school-based education. I discovered when I left the schoolhouse behind that the game restarts and one has to begin getting an education all over again.
    Anyway, I progressed from being a fat and funny person as a kid to being a large and quite strong person due to years of hard physical work and eventually found that the best way to deal with bullies is to stand one’s ground and call them out, or ‘be the mirror, as you say.
    While teaching in London, England, I had a confrontation with a bully on the teaching staff of one school, who was bullying the wonderfully funny, intelligent and talented but physically tiny man who was my department head. I called the bully on this as only the three of us were in the staff dining room at that time. The bully threatened me as a reaction to being called out, but I stood my ground and he went off muttering dark things.
    Next day, as I walked into the daily staff gathering for morning coffee, I was given a standing ovation. My boss had spread the word that I had stood up to the bully in his defence! I soon heard that the the bully had been getting away with throwing his (considerable) weight about for some years, being particularly nasty to younger staff members, especially females, and I was the first to do something about it. Last time I was in touch with the school, the bully had slipped down to being lowest man on the staff totem pole and was looking for positions at far-away schools.

  37. M Simon says:

    cdquarles says:
    5 May 2015 at 8:19 pm

    The South has a very great failing in that regard. And it seems to be a cultural feature. They are too much into order and not enough into liberty. They will go so far as to deny people medicine to keep the old order. Not very Christian. There was a feller a while back who diagnosed the problem.

    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types — the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine. Each new blunder of the progressive or prig becomes instantly a legend of immemorial antiquity for the snob. This is called the balance, or mutual check, in our Constitution. — G.K. Chesterton

    Hemp was once upon a time a widely grown crop in those regions. Since the progressives managed to get it labeled “Devil Weed” the conservatives have been against it. I had a conversation with a Southern Baptist organization. The leader (or what ever you call it) organization. They were adamant about keeping people from medicinal cannabis despite all the evidence I could bring to bear (considerable) on its medicinal properties. It is the Devil’s Weed and some people might use it to get intoxicated. People are just going to have to die to prevent that. Even if they don’t want to die right yet. I pointed out that such an attitude was not very Christian. They ignored me.

  38. Kuldebar says:


    {First off, I value your blog, and I don’t want to appear confrontational, I do want to present a more skeptical view of the event that unfolded in Garland Texas. I am happy the two idiots were shot dead before they could do harm, this is how these things are supposed to carry out. More guns, less crime; an armed society is a polite society.}

    Good intentions can be so easily subverted by those who wish to manage public perception. And, yes, I drift into the proverbial tin foil hat territory, but I can affirm and attest that we live in a world where perceptions are managed on quite the regular basis from the micro to the macro. I spent the first 20 years of my adult life working for the government and the military, much of it became evident to me then, and now years on, even more so. /tinfoilhat off

    No doubt, Free Speech is the attractive veneer that catches the decent minded among us and gives us pause, but the ongoing ratchet effect of the trumped up war on a tactic is an issue which shouldn’t be ignored.

    That our own government has created most of these terror organizations by design or incompetence, matters not; it all serves the greater purpose of an increasingly more militarized control at home and abroad.

    Setting firebrands out to stir up trouble, and depending on how much you trust your own government, perhaps even willfully facilitating events to ratchet up public turmoil, all this and more are what hides behind the flag waving bravado.

    Free Speech is dead, even in Texas, you have “allowed” speech, “tolerated” speech and “sanctioned” speech and you have designated Free Speech zones. Last time I checked the Bill of Rights, most of it was already crossed off.

    It’s not the America I thought I grew up in, so I’m not going to go all patriotic over what most likely was a staged or conveniently allowed event.


    “And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. ” -V

  39. R. de Haan says:

    @ E.M., my left handed remark in our language is used to explain that when you can deal with something “left handed” it is easy. Never intended to insult anybody left handed, it’s just an expression which I translated into english.
    I can write left and right handed and several family members are left handed but we have never made the connection you just made.

    As for the WTC/building 7 evidence, did you watch the video and did you read the peer reviewed report mentioned in the video?

    @ M Simon, I agree with your Zero Hedge qualifications but some times they have news first hand which goes through my own filter.
    I would never put any posting on that blog.

  40. R. de Haan says:

    @ E.M, P.S. The WTC structure was designed to survive a Boeing 707 impact at 600 MPH.
    Just watch the video.

  41. E.M.Smith says:

    @R. De Haan:

    English has the same “left handed” saying, but it has an implication of “easy for a stupid person who is left handed”. For example, a “left handed compliment” is one that isn’t quite right… “Love your suit, it makes you look a lot less fat”, for example.

    I try to help stamp it out. Why? I was a lefty at birth, but ‘trained right’ as I didn’t care all that much and was enough ambi to make it work OK. Yet still “have issues” from that process ( trouble throwing as it is with the non-natural hand… sometimes confuse right and ‘my other right’, etc.). So it’s not so much a ‘toss dirt at you’ as an effort on my part to discourage the idea that “left” is “sinister”… ;-)

    Per the WTC Conspiracy Theory:

    I saw it live. I saw it in dozens of reruns. I’ve seen several “explosives did it” videos. I’ve seen a debunking of those videos. Dad was a US Combat Engineer and taught me about shaped charge demolition. I’ve made explosives (and used them). Do you really think I need to see the same thing again?

    The reality is that the building DID survive an impact by a much larger airplane. BUT, the fuel load was so large that the following fire was beyond expectations. That, then, softened the steel of the beams that spanned the 1 acre open floor plan (and had had the fire protective foam knocked off in the impact). After a LONG TIME, that softening reached the point where some of the beams started to let loose and a cascade failure followed. Exactly as would be expected in that type of structure. Stressed skin does not take that kind of percussive descending load well.

    Once that cascade started, the tonnage of crap that landed on the roof of places like #7 was plenty to bring them down.

    When that kind of progressive collapse happens, the beams / floors et. al. let go with what has an explosive like quality to it. The material just reaches the limit and splats out sideways. And as the load progresses, it looks like timed shaped charges detonating just before the fall front, but isn’t.

    At some point I’ll watch your link, as Yet Another Just Like The Others, but don’t expect me to see anything other than a simple progressive descending collapse of a structure beyond design limits (due to mass acceleration / impact on each floor) initiated by fire weakening the key bracing beams spanning the floors and holding the walls in against the outward forces in normal use. In keeping with all the engineering of buildings that I know and understand, and not at all like one would do with explosives to bring it down. (A ‘cut’ lower down would be more effective, take less charge and far less access, and if done asymmetrically could be made to look like the impact had knocked the building over, in the process taking out even more buildings… while looking more like what folks would expect to see.)

  42. Larry Ledwick says:

    Ref the building collapse many forget all the gravitational potential energy stored in a 100+ story building. If you calculate the energy released as the entire building mass falls to the ground it is significantly greater than any reasonable amount of explosives you could put in the building discretely. Once that upper floor section falls 10-20 ft it has enough inertia to drive all the way to the ground pushing the structure below it out of the way.

    Multi-story buildings in Mexico failed mid-floor in a very similar manner during the Mexico earth quake 1985 due only to shaking? Many of them only 5-8 stories high.

    It is a characteristic mode of failure for all multistory buildings. Once a weak story fails and a vertical collapse starts, it always takes the crushing of multiple stories below the failure point to use up the stored gravitational potential energy in the upper stories. If the crushing action goes more than about 2-5 floors the building almost always goes all the way to the ground.

    Same mode of collapse is seen in tall radio towers which collapse due to ice load, they fall and crush in the same accordion crush manner.

    If you have ever watched placement of charges for controlled demolition you know that doing it discretely is a physical impossibility in a high capacity building which is occupied 24 hours a day.
    Planned demolitions often take weeks or months to setup, with planned weakening of structures (partial cutting through of beams), knocking out shear walls, drilling holes with air hammers in concrete posts and placing truck loads of explosives and miles of detcord, shock tubes or electrical wiring for the initiators. Not an easy task even in a closed structure, to do it without the general public knowing it was happening is simply not possible on that sort of scale.

  43. M Simon says:

    Kuldebar says:
    5 May 2015 at 9:38 pm

    Only the dead are free. I died at age 25. And then the gun was removed from my temple. I have been living on borrowed time ever since. A dead man.

    BTW love your icon.

  44. M Simon says:

    Not an easy task even in a closed structure, to do it without the general public knowing it was happening is simply not possible on that sort of scale.

    False ceilings on every floor. Maintenance. Installation of ‘net cables. Radio control. And you don’t explosively do the beams. Just weaken them. With fire.

    The fact that it is “not possible” is the first and greatest element in keeping the details hidden.

    See my comment here:

    Well anyway. For a long time I was a believer in the official story.

  45. M Simon says:

    But in the end it doesn’t matter to me. We were tricked into a war with Islam? Well we should be at war with them. They are a despicable lot. Our b’tards prefer soma. Theirs prefer mass murder. I’ll take ours.

  46. E.M.Smith says:

    Ok, I took the 1 hour 51 minutes of my life (closer to 2 hours as I stopped the play to read the full script on some fast moving shots) and spent it. It was interesting, but not for the reasons you would have expected. Mostly as a study in “not quite right” thinking.

    I did find the thermite speculation novel. Also the discussion of molten metals was a new twist for me. But there was a lot else that was closer to the ‘typical’ of such things. Stuff of the forms:

    1) “normally it isn’t like that so it CAN’T be like that” (which isn’t true, BTW. Most engineering disasters are due to something that was thought not to be of concern until it happened).

    2) Showing one thing to justify something else. Such as the tests of floor plates in fires showing them with intact thermal fire protective coatings when the impact was known to have stripped off the thermal protective coatings. Then claiming that test proves heat could not cause them to sag enough in a fire. It ought to be tested with structures AFTER being blasted with tons of flying metal at hundreds of miles per hour…

    3) The Manganese almost got me. It isn’t what you expect to hear about in a fire. A quick check on use in metals, though, showed reason why it would be there ( checking the spec on the steel and aluminum used in building and plane would confirm this).

    Manganese phosphating is used as a treatment for rust and corrosion prevention on steel. Depending on their oxidation state, manganese ions have various colors and are used industrially as pigments.

    Manganese is essential to iron and steel production by virtue of its sulfur-fixing, deoxidizing, and alloying properties. Steelmaking, including its ironmaking component, has accounted for most manganese demand, presently in the range of 85% to 90% of the total demand.
    Small amounts of manganese improve the workability of steel at high temperatures, because it forms a high-melting sulfide and therefore prevents the formation of a liquid iron sulfide at the grain boundaries. If the manganese content reaches 4%, the embrittlement of the steel becomes a dominant feature. The embrittlement decreases at higher manganese concentrations and reaches an acceptable level at 8%. Steel containing 8 to 15% of manganese can have a high tensile strength of up to 863 MPa. Steel with 12% manganese was used for British steel helmets. This steel composition was discovered in 1882 by Robert Hadfield and is still known as Hadfield steel.

    Aluminium alloys

    The second large application for manganese is as an alloying agent for aluminium. Aluminium with a manganese content of roughly 1.5% has an increased resistance against corrosion due to the formation of grains absorbing impurities which would lead to galvanic corrosion. The corrosion-resistant aluminium alloys 3004 and 3104 with a manganese content of 0.8 to 1.5% are the alloys used for most of the beverage cans. Before year 2000, more than 1.6 million tonnes have been used of those alloys; with a content of 1% manganese, this amount would need 16,000 tonnes of manganese.

    So not at all surprising to find manganese and no need for a thermite initiator to explain it.

    4) Conflating structural forms. “Steel highrise” does only FOO. Neglecting that these were very special structures and that many “highrise” buildings are of other forms. Comparing a post and beam steel girder performance in fire to a tube building is just silly. Comparing them in collapse even more so.

    The tube system concept is based on the idea that a building can be designed to resist lateral loads by designing it as a hollow cantilever perpendicular to the ground. In the simplest incarnation of the tube, the perimeter of the exterior consists of closely spaced columns that are tied together with deep spandrel beams through moment connections. This assembly of columns and beams forms a rigid frame that amounts to a dense and strong structural wall along the exterior of the building.
    This exterior framing is designed sufficiently strong to resist all lateral loads on the building, thereby allowing the interior of the building to be simply framed for gravity loads. Interior columns are comparatively few and located at the core. The distance between the exterior and the core frames is spanned with beams or trusses and intentionally left column-free.

    The two tall tower were tube structures. The floor panels only support the local weight. Once overloaded, they strip from the tube, and once the tube distorts, it collapses. There is a fun trick that demonstrates this. Empty a beer or soda can. Place it on the ground in a normal bottom down top up position. VERY carefully, balance on top of it on one foot. Now, reach down and rapidly (careful to get fingers OUT of the way once you touch the cans…) poke the sides of the can with a finger on each side. A rapid “in and immediately back”. The can will suddenly collapse into a flat pancake with you on top (thus the need to get the fingers out of the way very fast). The building was like that. it depended on the side walls NOT flexing to stay strong. Once flexed, it’s over.

    Now once all that mass is churning its way down, it becomes a ‘ball mill’ of sorts grinding everything up.

    Building 7 had a unique issue as well.

    The building was constructed above a Con Edison substation that had been on the site since 1967. The substation had a caisson foundation designed to carry the weight of a future building of 25 stories containing 600,000 sq ft (56,000 m2). The final design for 7 World Trade Center was for a much larger building than originally planned when the substation was built. The structural design of 7 World Trade Center therefore included a system of gravity column transfer trusses and girders, located between floors 5 and 7, to transfer loads to the smaller foundation. Existing caissons installed in 1967 were used, along with new ones, to accommodate the building. The 5th floor functioned as a structural diaphragm, providing lateral stability and distribution of loads between the new and old caissons. Above the 7th floor, the building’s structure was a typical tube-frame design, with columns in the core and on the perimeter, and lateral loads resisted by perimeter moment frames.

    In other words, it was a kludge to enable overbuilding the site and foundation designs in place.

    Now once you have a fire weakening that “diaphragm” that provides “lateral stability”, it’s kind of all over.

    On September 11, 2001, 7 WTC was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building. The building’s internal fire suppression system lacked water pressure to fight the fires, and the building collapsed completely at 5:21:10 pm, according to FEMA, while the 2008 NIST study placed the final collapse time at 5:20:52 pm. The collapse began when a critical internal column buckled and triggered structural failure throughout, which was first visible from the exterior with the crumbling of a rooftop penthouse structure at 5:20:33 pm. The collapse made the old 7 World Trade Center the first tall building known to have collapsed primarily due to uncontrolled fires, and the first and only steel skyscraper in the world to have collapsed due to fire.

    We saw the penthouse fall in. Now you have a descending mass taking out the stabilizing floor plates. Shoving things sideways as it goes. As soon as that structure deforms, the whole lot starts the fall / collapse. Again we have a long fire that weakens things, a partial deformation, and then the tube collapse. Totally reasonable.

    5) Using folks on the ground speculating as “proof”. There is ALWAYS someone on the ground saying that a building is going to collapse. Especially police who have the job of moving people away. It means nothing. That someone finally ‘got it right’ and the building did collapse is going to happen eventually.

    6) Taking general use of language to mean specifics. So when a guy on the street says “it’s going to collapse” that does not necessarily mean a controlled demolition collapse. Similarly, someone saying “it looked like” or “it sounded like” an “explosion” does not make it an explosion. It just means it made loud noises. TONS of steel whacking into other TONS of steel makes a loud bang. Also fuel mist can make a Fuel Air Explosion. I have no idea if it did, but that is the kind of thing that is ignored in the video.

    7) The thermite cutting charge idea was a nice new one for me. Thermite is very heavy and positioning all those large and heavy charges ‘just so’ would be a horrific task. All ignored with a wave of the “cover story” and maintenance wands.

    8) Coincidence as proof. So there was a FEMA exercise planned for that day. On every single day in NYC there are thousands of events planned and happening. Search until you find an interesting one, then call it proof… Uh, no.

    9) Molten metal is also interesting. I can’t explain it. I can point out the astounding energy of all that falling material and that a simple Smith with a hammer can heat cold iron to working soft red just by banging on it for a while. (Better to use the forge fire, but possible with just a hammer…) I’d also point out that metals burn. They can be their own fuel. How much cellulose, plastic, aluminum dust, whatever was churned into a mix of its own, and compression heated (and mixed with flaming debris)? Nobody knows. But I’d not be at all surprised to find that an interesting flammable metal & other stuff mix can be made, and set on fire, leaving a slag puddle. Of all the bits in the film, that’s the most interesting and mysterious. But mystery is not proof of conspiracy.

    10) Ambiguous image as specific material. There is an image of glowing sparks cascading down the side of the building prior to collapse. This is baldly asserted to be molten iron. What proof? That liquid aluminum doesn’t glow red. Well, that depends on the temperature and if it is combusting or not. I have lit aluminum on fire. It can make a very nice flame of very high temperature. Old Volkswagen transmission housings make a very nice fire. A bit hard to get them started, and some scrapings to get it going helps… But we don’t even know it was metal. Was it burning plastic instead? Or a mix of “furniture” products? (Those metal, wood, fabric and plastic panels used in office dividers). Did it come from the building, or the plane? Was the plane toting any cargo that would burn that way? In truth, it was just a cascade of sparks from “something” that was the result of “something perhaps something else” burning, and of unknown material.

    11) Word Play. Rather than saying “fall in the direction of gravity” they say “path of highest resistance”. Ah, what? Down is down. Things fall down. That the pile gets big enough once underway to push some sideways into a “mushroom cloud” isn’t evidence of explosion, it is evidence that stuff falling down gets pushed outward by the stuff it hits. Thus the girders (that you can see being peeled off the building exterior by the collapsing mass) getting flung into other buildings.

    12) Ignoring what is NOT seen. Similarly calling compression failure weak spots “squibs”. A squib is a failed explosion, but what is happening is massive tons of rapidly falling debris putting exceptional loads on the tube structure. That a weaker spot a bit further down occasionally ‘goes first’ doesn’t say much; and also ignores that we can’t see what is falling inside the walls. The internal mass is likely ahead of the externally visible disruption, and the leading bits can cause a minor blow out of any given office ahead of the main mass.

    At this point I’m going to stop. For basically every point they raised, I can easily see a problem, or a potential innocent explanation. And, frankly, I’m not seeing the point in indulging what is ever closer to a ‘thread hijack’. The bottom line is that having that large a structure stay UP at all is the amazing thing. Having it come down once hit by airplanes and / or debris and then burning for hours is not at all a surprise. Once starting to collapse, having it go “in the direction of gravity” is also hardly a surprise.

  47. Larry Ledwick says:

    Regarding the outward motion of cement dust etc. which folks equate with explosives. It is worth while to note that the method of collapse (diaphragm floors falling inside a tube,exoskeleton) makes a huge and nifty bellows. All that air trapped between floors has to go somewhere as they accordion and that it is outward. There were hurricane force winds generated inside each of those compressing floors as they cascaded downward blowing pulverizing sheet rock wall sheathing burning paper and plastic and ejecting hot super heated smoke and semi-combusted fumes into an oxygen rich environment. Ideal environment for a fuel air type explosion as those superheated gasses suddenly had ample oxygen. (similar to a flash over in a structure fire)

    Regarding the “sparks” and “molten metal” seen pouring out in places. Worthwhile to note that modern office furnishings are rich in plastic. At high temperatures that plastic would drip to the floor and run to the nearest down slope exit point.

    Experiment for the student. Take a piece of nylon rope, or a piece of a polyethylene milk jug and light it on fire, and watch what the falling burning drops of molten plastic look like. From a distance they would be indistinguishable from molten metal.

    Occam’s razor strongly prefers the simple mechanical mechanisms above over the complex unlikely and very difficult sinister explanation of a covert demolition.

  48. M Simon says:

    Well here are my objections: Now on this page so you can delete the other page stuff:

    Well as long as you are like me – a dead man – perhaps you might want to look into what kind of buildings fall at roughly s=1/2at^2. Don’t those supposed floor collapses have to use up some of that energy and slow things down? What kind of buildings weakened by fire fall straight down? Shouldn’t there be differential forces because a fire like that is uneven? Look up “Architects and Engineers 9/11″ There is a committee with that name or something like it. Then look at the fire responders during the day reporting… well look it up. And all that dust. Cement dust. And the dust was coming out of the building before the floors pancaked on each other. Proof? Well that was hauled away and melted down ASAP. And there are pictures of the day with pretty little flashes coming from every floor. In very short order. Well it changed my mind.

    And you know – at the time, long before I studied the above – I was hopping mad. Four seconds before the 2nd plane hit I said to the first mate – this means war. And we got two. Iraq and Afghanistan. The second to cover up the first. So who ever did it – it worked. And the main crop of the ‘stan? And funny enough Russia was allied with us for a time around then. I think Obama double crossed them. Bush – having had family in the game was of a mind to keep his promises. You know the deal, “when you live outside the law you must be honest”. I think Obama & Co. are double crossers. Expect him to die in a mysterious plane crash a year or so after he is out of office. Watch who sends the most flowers. It is just business. I wonder if he has a big enough “insurance policy” ? My guess is not. No matter what he thinks.

    Think of this little ‘toon as a Mo cartoon. Act accordingly.

    I will buy that it is possible to explain everything. Except the speed of the fall. And the falling straight down. OK one building falls straight down. But all 3? From fire weakening? That is a strain on my credulity.

    And then we have the happenings in Florida. The peculiar flight training. And the flight trainer popped for smuggling drugs. Osama was a drug smuggler. Big time.

    Way too many loose ends.

  49. M Simon says:

    It is worth while to note that the method of collapse (diaphragm floors falling inside a tube,exoskeleton) makes a huge and nifty bellows.

    Yup. But so many floors below the visible collapse front? But maybe the the front was well below what we see from the outside. But tell me. What are the odds that 3 buildings fall straight down from fire weakening? It could happen. I’ve never seen an example of that anywhere else, And I looked around. Spent a day looking at building collapses from fire.

    And the drug smuggler/flight trainer. McCoy – The Politics of Heroin – free on the www. Look it up. Air America – the movie and the book. Tojo involved in the Manchurian opiate trade.

    Click to access narcoDollars.pdf

    You might also want to look up the opium addicts of Nantucket Island 1792.

  50. E.M.Smith says:

    @M. Simon:

    Look at just how long Tube Structure skyscrapers have been around. It is one of the newer steel frame approaches. So not a lot of them in existence to get that fire experience base. Now remember that the “core” is stronger than the “tube” and the space in between just holds up normal floor loads (plus a ‘double’ or some such safety margin above design load). In the case where things start falling, those floors are going to strip from both the Tube and the Core and be plunging inside. On the outside, you see the point where the Tube is finally loose long enough to bet involved in the chaos. Meanwhile the core is keeping that ring of falling floors centered and descending straight, until enough chaos involves the section of core ‘poking up’ that it topples and joins the mess.

    The key to all this is the Tube Structure. Strong shell. Strong core. Weak floors attaching them to each other. ALL of them dependent on the the others for integrity at height. Then remember that they are built for compressive loads, with primarily wind lateral loading, and most of that taken by the Tube (that’s the key part of the design goal, BTW, wind loading via the Tube). During the collapse, the lateral loads generated by churning debris are what takes out the core and sends tube sections outward as ejecta. This happens inside before the forces do that ejecting…

  51. p.g.sharrow says:

    One additional proviso, I heard during early investigations that the Trade Center buildings were designed to the low safety factor of “3”. Buildings are usually designed to a safety factor of 5 times needed strength. Specially an untried new concept. Everything I have seen points me to the conclusion that this was an accident looking for a place to happen, and it happened. Actually, any serious fire could have yielded the same result in these structures. At 600F steel loses it’s strength, over 2000F it can begin to combust and make huge amounts of heat. A proper set torch will burn away steel with just compressed air and the heat of the burning steel. I have seen a well ventilated wood fire totally burn up cast iron and steel structures. pg

  52. M Simon says:

    I still wonder why a fire wouldn’t cause uneven frame stresses and bending. Maybe not in one but not in either?

    And then there is the Florida flight school.

    And in the realm of conspiracy nuttery. A well designed plan should be able to explain away most if not all the anomalies. You then let Occam take over.

    Tubes under compressive load bend when weakened between the end points. And funny enough NIST did not take its simulation to completion. That seems odd.

    All I am willing to go with is “unknown”. The “official” explanation could be right. But the other one could be correct (or at least closer). And then we have the Kennedy shoot. We know to a high degree of certainty that the official explanation is not correct and that Jim Garrison was at least close.

    And then Florida and the flight school. And the goings on in Mena. And probably other airports.

  53. David A says:

    I still wonder why a fire wouldn’t cause uneven frame stresses and bending. Maybe not in one but not in either?
    It did, however the tube structure with weak floor supports helped align the timing of the collapse momentum. The stronger support points absorb momentarily until weaker one ace apart supports collapse in mass. .Also motion impacts to lower levels supports happen far quicker then free fall.

    Watch available videos of Yosemite rock falls to see how massive the air compression impacts can be.

  54. M Simon says:

    David A says:
    9 May 2015 at 10:07 am

    OK. That is the very best answer to my mechanical failure questions I have ever gotten. I am now tending towards dismissal of “demolition”. But that still leaves the flight school, Mena, Ollie North, “The Politics of Heroin” – McCoy, Air America, Gary Webb, Blandon. . And rafts of other evidence on that subject.

    It used to be you could tell where our intel agencies were operating by the kind of drugs flooding America. Remember the Thai Stick craze? Look at where our intel was busiest at the time.

    These days they seem to do a better job of covering their tracks.

  55. E.M.Smith says:

    @M. Simon:

    Now we have all sorts of prescription drugs floating around…. Oh, wait, Feds in medical care…

  56. M Simon says:

    E.M.Smith says:
    11 May 2015 at 5:00 am

    And the advantage is that it buys them “legitimate” supporters. After studying the medical literature for years I once went into the medical cost structure. Cannabis – fully exploited in medicine could save us between $1/2 trillion and a $trillion and a half per year. Three examples.

    Cancer costs $200 bn a year.
    Type II diabetes about $300 bn. (cannabis can treat 2/3rds)
    Alzheimer’s (it is not an expensive disease – except for the care givers) – $200 bn a year.

    It adds up. Even if cannabis will not 100% solve those problems. Even a 20% solution would be quite a significant hit.

    Something like 60% to 80% of Americans support medical cannabis. It is still a schedule 1 drug – no medical use. According to our government. Rescheduling just missed in Congress. 210 for and 213 against. And most of the antis are Republicans. We are getting more libertarian Republicans elected so maybe next year. And funny enough such a change does not require legislation. It is within Obama’s power. But he has all those prohibition agents to worry about.

    Big Pharma is a big supporter of “Drug Free America”.

    You don’t need to connect the dots. They merge on their own.

    The best government money can buy. And it is for sale. Cheap. None the less. The cures are worse than the disease.

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