These last few days we have been treated to an extraordinary spectacle of hate speech and intolerance. The “Media” have taken it upon themselves to participate in the election process by planting trap questions for candidates and by deliberate creation of spectacle for the purpose of harming leading conservative candidates.
This week, the “Gotcha! du jour” is Muslims and Islam. IMHO it is no accident that BOTH Trump and Carson were entrapped in the same way. While I have no idea if the questioner of Trump was a plant, or a natural inhabitant of the meeting; it is quite clear that the editorial “spin” selected for the week was the “Anti Muslim Bigot” card. So both of the front runners of the Republican party get the same treatment within hours of each other and it is plastered Coast to Coast and sunrise to sunset? This, we are supposed to believe, is not by design?
For anyone who doesn’t know (hard as this is to imagine now, someone coming to this thread from another country or in another year might might be aware of the context):
A questioner at a Trump rally led off with a mini-rant about Muslims and Muslim Training Camps and that Obama is a muslim and that Obama isn’t even an American. Trump did not address what the man said (well, really he addressed it by a sarcastic “We need questions like this?…”) and instead gave some of his typical pap of “We’re going to do so much and look into so many things”… or some such.
The CNN Headline is
Trump doesn’t challenge anti-Muslim questioner at event
Is that what we have sunk to? Pilloried for not enforcing PC rules and oppression of Freedom Of Speech on others? Letting others have there say is now an offense of its own?
Carson was coaxed into an ‘own goal’ via asking him about who might not be compatible with the American Ideals and Constitution.
BY Hope Yen, Associated Press September 20, 2015 at 11:39 AM EDT
U.S. Republican candidate Dr. Ben Carson speaks during the Heritage Action for America presidential candidate forum in Greenville, South Carolina September 18, 2015. Photo by Chris Keane/Reuters
WASHINGTON — Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson says Islam is antithetical to the Constitution, and he doesn’t believe that a Muslim should be elected president.
Carson, a devout Christian, says a president’s faith should matter to voters if it runs counter to the values and principles of America.
Responding to a question during an interview broadcast Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” he described the Islamic faith as inconsistent with the Constitution.
“I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation,” Carson said. “I absolutely would not agree with that.”
He did not specify in what way Islam ran counter to constitutional principles.
Let me enlighten Associated Press and PBS. One way is that both of you would be put out of business and / or killed for what you publish.
Carson, after the leading question, answered more or less honestly and accurately that Islam is not compatible with the American Constitution and culture. That, BTW, is honest and accurate. I’ve read the Koran a few times now and it is absolutely incompatible with the American Ideals of freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and liberty for all. It speaks frequently about killing off infidels and taking them slaves (as just one example). A practice that continues to this day and has been reported in the news in the last week. Gays are to be stoned to death per Sharia; not exactly compatible with our “Gays in the Military” rulings… and women are to be treated like chattel and kept in the home under a blanket. BTW, polygamy is strongly promoted in the Koran as well, as is the taking of infidel women slaves for prostitution. It gives the rules for running a brothel including that no muslim women may be used, but women infidels are fine… I’d say all that was a bit incompatible with Traditional American Values.
But that’s only the context.
What amazed me was the degree of hate speech and invective heaped on Dr. Carson for being honest and practicing his free speech rights. (I expected such hate speech directed at The Donald… he seems to revel in it and folks like the ‘show’ of him blowing off the blowhard critic.) There are now the inevitable calls for Carson to resign from the race. All pro-forma, IMHO. Make a pot stir, blow it out of proportion with hate and invective, then demand apologies and that the person quit.
So just why is the Democratic Party and Progressive Media so hateful, so intolerant of Freedom of Speech, and frankly, so evil in their intent? And why do the good and honest Democrats not stand up to such evil done in their name and insist that it be stopped?
Are there so few left, on the left, that can see such attacks on candidates for what they are? Blatant propaganda campaigns to smear and destroy, to suppress freedom of thought and expression, to manipulate and harass folks for ‘wrong think’ and enforcing a PC Dogma on all of us.
So I’m continuing to watch, and find myself ever more resentful of PC Crap and Progressive Intolerance. Freedom of Speech is for all of us, and for all speech, not just the speech one party likes, and certainly not to be sacrificed on the altar of political expediency.
Personally, I had been ‘waffling’ between Rubio, Carly, and Carson as my preferred candidate. As of this latest attack on a fine and honest soft spoken and thoughtful man, I’m now putting Carson in my #1 spot. A Carson / Trump or Trump / Carson ticket has a certain charm to it too…
And the Loony Side Of Left wonders why Trump is scoring so highly…
CLUE: (You have to shout it at the left so they can catch it..):
WE ARE FED UP WITH PC CRAP! Someone, anyone, finally being honest is just sooooo refreshing. Then the attacks look petty and cheap in comparison. The more you attack, the more they shine in the PC darkness and sing music in the silence of the PC Gag Order.
CLUE #2: Islam is NOT your friend. Look up what Islam actually advocates, then try to square that with Left Policy and Progressive talking Points. Gays to be stoned. YOU and YOUR FAMILY to be forced to convert to Islam or die. Your daughter to be placed in a brothel for the enjoyment of Muslim men. NO ART. Not just no porn, or no “Piss Christ”, but no depictions of people at all. Burn the Louvre. Blow up Palmyra. Destroy every church and synagogue in the land. Do you really think that is compatible with the American Way, American Constitution, and True Freedom? If so, welcome to Sharia.
(Anyone thinking I’m overstating that, read the Koran and Sharia rulings. No, you can not take the word of your Muslim Friend for it. The Koran specifically says it is just fine to lie cheat and deceive the Infidel to advance Islam… so “On No One’s Word”; just read it for yourself. Or look up the history of Islam invading through Greece to Romania – where Vlad The Impaler stopped them and started the Dracula legend- and through Spain to where France halted them. BTW, the Koran says that they MUST retake those lands. It is now THEIR land forever and must be retaken. Period. No, you can’t ‘negotiate’ about it. Thus the influx of ‘refugees’ and ‘immigrants’.)
Now the choice is pretty simple. Be ignorant of history, ignorant of the Koran, ignorant of the reality on the nightly news even; and use that ignorance to intolerantly sling mud with “gotcha” stories at an honest man practicing his freedom of speech. Or. Politely recognize the truth when you see it and a brave and honest man willing to state it.
The {Progressive | Left | Socialist | American-Liberal | Democratic | name du jour} is just so incredibly intolerant of Freedom Of Speech, going so far as to criticize Trump for not actively suppressing it in someone else, that it boggles the mind. Just when it it become my duty to oppress Freedom Of Speech instead of defend it? And just when did Honesty become a Thought Crime?
Musings from the Chiefio 
I couldn’t agree more with your post. Muslims go by the Koran and the Hedith which are the exact quotes from Muhammad. This book is unbelievable in its teachings, worse than the Koran.
It was reported a couple years ago that the number one selling Muslim book in America was a guide on how to properly beat and discipline the women under your control. Obviously no home should be about it.
Just look to the crimes and rapes occurring in Europe by the Muslim population. I don’t know why the men are tolerating it in places like Sweden and Norway, the numbers are huge.
The trapping of Conservative candidates seems to be the sport of the day, with the PC agenda dictated by the left. I now like Trump, Carson and Cruz even more than before. What is bothersome is how easily people are swayed by these attacks.
May the current hatred of free speech and honesty mark an end to ~500 years (1543-2015) of efforts by tyrants to hide from the public that “God” uses the Sun, not self-appointed tyrants, to make and sustain every atom, life and planet in the Solar System.
Last Friday morning on Fox Business there was one of their Liberal talking heads on Varney and a question was asked. This liberal said ‘You Conservatives have it tough because you have to think about your positions, Liberals don’t have to think about theirs.”
It always seems that Liberal talking heads are reading off the same talking points memo. Right down to the same words and sentences. Even Soros mouths the same lines! Just who or what is driving this train. They certainly attack anyone that is out of line with them, even their own kind.
.
Back in the late 1950s I encountered new era school teachers that said to me that “if I insisted on following my beliefs in God and Country I would not be allowed to advance in academia.” One even said he would not allow me to graduate from high school. “People that held beliefs in god and country were not intelligent and should be sent to manual labor.” Liberalism is learned in school through years of indoctrination. Small wonder that they are so insistent that they are following the one true way. They remind me of the priests and nuns of the Catholic School that I went to for 3 years. They insisted that they had the one true way handed down from god through the infallible Pope! or other calls to Authority.
Religious dogma of one kind or another from people that believe regurgitating memorized lines is thinking. There are less then 10% of the population that actually THINK, All the rest are fans that want to follow someone else. 23% are not able to relearn, so they are stuck with what ever they were taught. Most of the rest are just too busy with doing their own thing to get involved in figuring things out.
Western Socialist Progressives must destroy old beliefs to institute their own and build their vision of paradise. The Muslim must destroy all “Others” to obtain their version of Paradise. Mean while Greedy Evil Bastards are angling to take advantage of every event and connection to feather their own nests.
Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad.
Prophecies for this era, when a net covers the world: that the Philosophy of Thomas Moore would be thoroughly discredited. The world would unite and defeat the radical Muslims and that religion would learn to follow a new path ” to walk with Jesus” The Great Deceiver would be followed by “A Wise Old Man” that would set things on a better path for all. Humans would be given 2 gifts, An Atomic Energy Source that passivates radioactivity and a electric space drive.
“Those that Can will learn, Those that Can’t must be taught”…pg
WE live in interesting times…pg
Oliver; strange you would pick that time span.
Nostradamus said ” 500years from my time, my quatrains would be correctly interpreted, not by an educated man and it would be a great comfort to the people of that time.” We are in the 500years from his time…pg
Thanks, p.g.sharrow. Can you recommend a translation of the quatrains?
I agree completely!
Strictly observant Muslims who adhere to and obey the doctrine of their faith are absolutely incompatible with a free Constitutional Republic. It is plain as day to any honest reading of the canonical texts of Islam, the Koran and the Hadith. Observers of Islam are explicitly prohibited from being true friends of any other religion. They have a mandatory duty to promote Islam if necessary at the point of sword. It is all clearly spelled out to anyone who can read.
Ever wonder why so called moderate Muslims never condemn terrorist acts by radical Salafi Islamic groups which are trying to return to 6th century interpretations of their belief system?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/islam-salafi.htm
Simple! To do so would be an act of apostasy and to do so would be to question the true text of the Koran which is punishable by death for a Muslim.
Islam is a doctrine of dominance and conquest, with a thin veneer of religion to make it untouchable by those who do not understand it. About 60% of its teachings have nothing to do with “religion” as westerners think of it, they are a code of behavior and governance by terror and oppression, which rules by totalitarian means any place it is strictly observed.
Literal strict interpretation of Islam is EXACTLY what ISIS is doing today. That is the true face of strict observance of the doctrine of Islam.
They also are explicitly told in their teachings to maintain a low profile in a new land until they have sufficient manpower in place to overthrow the government they live and convert it to an Islamic theocracy.
There is a reason that Spain ejected all Muslims in 1492, there is a reason that Europe fought with them for 200 years (see battles of Vienna 1489, 1529, 1623) and eventually pushed the Ottoman empire out of Europe.
The current emigration invasion of Europe is the opening action of a new battle for Europe, which will probably last for a 100 years of more (or end in a blinding flash and a very large smoking hole).
Those who fail to learn history . . .
Don’t believe it? Read “Catastrophic Failure” by Stephen Coughlin, he uses highly regarded Islamic texts to show by their own words the true teachings of Islam and how our Military and Governments are totally missing the point.
Also the English translation of the Koran “The Meaning of The Holy Quran” translated by Yusuf Ali. It is a recommended translation by highly regarded Islamic scholars, more importantly it unscrambles the traditional Koran and puts the Sura in their proper chronological order in which they were written. (the traditional Koran versions are intentionally scrambled out of order so that they are incomprehensible to those who do not spend years studying the text). The Koran also uses a concept called Abrogation in which later Sura which contradict earlier Sura supersede and obsolete the earlier Sura. Quoting an isolated Sura is not always reliable until you know if later Sura abrogate it.
For example the often quoted Sura 2.256 which is supposed to show Islam is a tolerant belief system of other religions, “Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clear from error”
It is asserted as the basis for claiming Islam is a religion of peace and religious tolerance. That Sura (along with over 100 others) is abrogated by Sura 9.5 the so called “Verse of the sword” “Slay the idolators wherever you find them, and take them and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush” This is the Sura that ISIS is using to destroy existing governments and establish their Caliphate.
This has the quatrains in both English and French. Spot checking a couple, the translation looked good to me .. though the French is a bit antiquated and at times odd.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/nos/
FWIW, here is a searchable Koran that also has a browse link for full text:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html
And the hadith
http://islam.uga.edu/hadith.html
because there are several versions of sharia and you can spend a lifetime reading them all, here’s a bit of summary:
http://www.islam-watch.org/home/79-mirza/625-islamic-sharia-law-in-brief.html
Between those folks can reach their own conclusions.
What the left hide behind is the right to concern and respect, if it is actually a right. Check it out.
The fact is that they only show concern for minorities and attitudes that denigrate democracy.
They show no concern or respect for anyone who disagrees nor who is not a minority.
One of the bases for this proposed right is that it protects individuals from government. However, the left have distorted it into minority uber alles type principle.
@omanuel; I would recommend these books for insight into Nostradamus and his predictions
The Prophecies of Nostradamus, by Erika Cheetham 1973
A good collection of the quatrains and letters, both in the original French as well as translations to English and interpretations. After reading this book I was struck by the translations. Michel de Nostradamus 1503- 1566 was trained in Greek, Latin, Hebrew as well as in Provincial French, not to be confused with modern French. Modern translations are based on modern French and seemed to me to be somewhat inaccurate. Using an English dictionary with word roots into early french I attempted translating 2 quatrains ( having no training in French) and felt that the modern translations were sometimes inaccurate and the interpretations incorrect. The Quatrains are 4 lines of prose but seemed to be 2 sentences that were not always connected to each other. There were citations of time, place and events but, not all together in 1 statement. Nostradamus said he could have made it plain but needed to obscure because of the Inquisition.
The works of Nostradamus are the second most published of all works after the Christian Bible.
Conversations with Nostradamus I, II, III, by Dolores Cannon 1992-1994
This is interesting because of the nature of this investigation. Certainly “not by an educated man”. I would recommend reading all 3 without thought, until completion, then evaluate the whole.
The ability to “see” the shadow of future events is known throughout human history. The ability to accurately interpret visions is very rare. and often misused. Nothing like the exactness of science. However, the past threads of events are known and give us a hint of the future ones…pg
Thanks. I will try to get and read this. The worship of modern sciences has greatly harmed our knowledge base.
This campaign season is a perfect opportunity to highlight the use of PC and the false narratives of the left. For example, I recently heard this statement: Ask a Democrat if a Muslim who believes in sharia law should be President?
The media love to portray these topics with their progressive bent so as to pressure the average joe/jane to behave according to their beliefs, but this is the opening for candidates such a Trump, Carson, Cruz….to really elucidate the hidden truths and an alternative viewpoint, so that more Americans may wake up to the actual reality and not the progressive media shadowplay
… but the gotcha stuff, as it relates to the PC requirement of respecting muslim culture, is not going to harm the GOP contenders unless they (contenders) back down.
Those that think it terrible that Carson would not want to have a leader that is in turn a follower of the muslim faith/culture are going to vote for Sanders or Clinton anyway. My guess is there is more to be gained from Carson’s stance (and honesty) than lost.
So, let the media left keep digging themselves a hole. (If they ever really get want they seem to want they will be the first to be buried).
When Bush II was president we were told that Dick Cheney was actually calling the shots.
Now Obama is president, Valerie Jarrett fills Cheney’s boots. That may explain why the USA is about to hand over more than $100 billion to people dedicated to destroying Israel and killing Americans.
Is Jarrett a Muslim? Probably not as Snopes explains here:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/jarrettislam.asp
You could help the Communist cause without being a Communist. Lenin was able to use brilliant people like Valerie Jarrett. He called them “Useful Idiots”. We triumphed over Communism but can we handle “Radical Islam” when our rulers don’t even recognize it as a threat?
This kind of c**p has been going on for centuries. The US Navy was founded in 1798 to put an end to the tribute payments to Muslim pirates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
You can’t negotiate with people who want to kill you or take your citizens hostage. Jefferson understood that 220 years ago so why are our modern leaders so dumb? Apparently they learned nothing from Neville Chamberlain and his appeasement policy.
Thanks Chief,
That was a very nice summery of the left and islam, some years ago I read a koran that was a direct translation done around 1850 by an English scholar direct from the arabic.
He had a preface page telling readers that islam is not totally bad as it is portrayed in his translation. After I read it my opinion was his preface was a bit optimistic. The entire thing showed Mo and his followers as barbaric terrorists, so not much has changed only more of them.
Thanks, E.M. Smith, for the links
On another perhaps related story, is it possible the harsh conditions imposed on Japan’s unconditional surrender in 1945 reflect the Pope’s lingering anger at Copernicus’ 1543 discovery the Sun controls planet Earth and totalitarian religious aspirations to destroy the Shinto religion?
Click to access Humanity_Lost_WWII.pdf
IMHO, if we want a country and a Constitution, we must have closed (regularly patrolled) borders, limited immigration, respect for (follow) the Constitution, limits on government, and no voter fraud. Fiorina is a GOP-Establishment plant, IMHO. Failed at all business endeavors; failed at running for office; was a McCain and Romney full supporter. Carson is absolutely inexperienced and is a Fox News darling. You might not think much of Trump, but he is the only one who has succeeded at what he has attempted — a successful businessman, etc., and the only one who speaks and acts for an America that you and I would recognize. And he is not dependent on their billions. And he has been steady in his beliefs that this country is on a disastrous path since at least 2011.
The others have all gone along with open borders, Obamacare, Common Core Curriculum, Planned Parenthood fetus-body parts, nuclear Iran, the trade deal (letters?),etc., in one way or another. The media is completely owned by Wall Street types who want open borders (trillions depend on it) for their trading/financial schemes. Who is behind AGW? Same elitist, one-worlders. They are using leftist, communist graduates of journalism schools, without much history, economics, financial, or science background, to do their bidding. And are they doing it! Sickening.
Please take a look at conservativetreehouse-c and at least read about the Wall Street, CofC, GOPe plans for this election year to deliver up another Bush. And if Bush doesn’t win, Hillary will do. She, like Obama, will approve everything. You wonder why the Republicans that were elected to the House and Senate (with true opposition-to-establishment votes) only did Obama’s bidding?
Trump is a Crony Capitalist, In words and deeds for all of his life. He was born wealthy and has become rich mostly by selling the sizzle of his / fathers name. Many that bet on his genus in business development have lost their money while he became enriched. Listen to what he is selling. This is a salesman that is selling you what you want to hear. Ross Perot played the same game, REMEMBER! Look behind the curtain!
I think Trump is fun, draws the fire from the Liberal Progressives, teaches real Conservative politicians to grow a pair and demonstrate some backbone. But as a President. I don’t think so.
Look to one in the shadows of Trump’s noise…pg
Well, I have never been a supporter of Donald Trump all my life long, but I have known about him. He has just been there for me. Nothing special. As I understood it, he took $35 mill from his Grandfather and turned it into many billions on his own. Did he take advantage of the crony corp goodies along the way? Yes, indeed. Easy pickens’. Is that all he did? No. He is a salesman and successful businessman. That is in good American tradition, notwithstanding the “leftist” artists that hate middle-class success — “Death of a Salesman”. He has been putting forth American ideals as long as I can remember. I just haven’t paid much attention until the disasters, absolute disasters, that have been the so-called Republican opposition to Obama. There has no fight, no respectable candidate for how long? The only opposition, a killing opposition, has been to tea party/conservative candidates within the Republican Party. Remember Romney could fight like a shark against fellow Republican candidates during 2012, but became a pussycat to Obama. One might even begin to believe that this was planned. I see no one else, absolutely no one else, who remains outside the monetary (at least) control of the Republican/CofC/Wall-Street handlers but Trump. They might want to be, but they don’t have the money to survive without knuckling under (sometimes carefully), a la Cruz.
Please read http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/09/23/carly-fiorina-gaslighting-islam-her-relationship-to-clinton-global-initiative-and-progressive-agenda/#more-106445 for detailed info on Carly. This is what I have known for years, even if not in such detail, ever since she destroyed my “Hewlett Packard” — wrong direction. Do I think I will like all that Trump will do as President? No. But if we don’t have someone to shut down that border, first and foremost, there will be no country as we have known it. Trump is putting forth many other positions of which I approve at this time.
E.M.Smith,
I have a problem with any religion when it is run by some fanatic that the sheeple follow. Christianity has had its share of problems in the past: that’s why the early founders left England. Not to mention the many wars.
What you high lighted is obviously not compatible with Western culture and any large percentage of immigrants with a different culture increases the risk of problems. Likewise, the Muslims over here don’t seem to follow the nasties that you listed but largely abide by American law.
NO ART. Not just no porn, or no “Piss Christ”, but no depictions of people at all. Burn the Louvre. Blow up Palmyra.
Sounds rather familiar.
Deuteronomy 5:8
You shall not make yourself a carved image or ANY LIKENESS OF ANYTHING in heaven above or earth beneath or in the waters under the earth.
ETc.
Religious fanaticism is often a sociopaths excuse for their treatment of others. “I will torture you ,even to death, to Save your immortal soul” It is Gods will!
They will not rest until we are subjugated to their will. We will only have peace when they are eradicated…pg
@ Adrian
You somehow forgot to include Deuteronomy 5:9 which is implicitly included in the previous verse. “You shall not bow down and worship them…” This commandment specifically forbids art used for the depiction of another deity to be worshiped. You can’t compare that to murdering people for a cartoon, no matter how much you want to.
@Adrian:
The difference is that we had the Reformation and dumped the literal reading of the Bible.
They did not. Thus the occasional calls for an Islamic Reformation. Except that Moderate Islam is the weaker party and many of the True Believers and high Clerics demand the literal.
Note, too, that the Koran explicitly states to keep a low profile in non-Muslim lands and only go all puritan once you have a majority. I have no doubt that the ‘Sojourners” who come here do it partly to escape the worst of ‘back home’; but they are eventually replaced. See the history of Christian Lebanon… and the present “history in the making” with Iraq and Syria and their Christian traditions and inhabitants of 2000 years… (Also the gradual destruction of Coptics in Egypt).
FWIW, I’ve had no problem with any individual Muslim I’ve worked with. Generally fine people. I think you can say that about most “regular folks”. The problem is with the fanatics who run things (for both cultures…). We just have a (slightly…) better grip on ours…
@P.G.:
Yup. Just look at the EPA and the Cult Of Climate…
@Pyromancer76:
I’m somewhat ambivalent on The Donald. OTOneH I like the way he is rattling cages and I’m pretty sure he knows how to “hire people” so would put competent folks in place to do the things where he’s a bit clueless.. which is all any upper manager really needs to do. OTOH, I get this slightly queasy side-show-barker-bums-rush feeling every time I watch one of his speeches and I’m really not fond of the “shoot first think later” bully approach to criticism. I’ve seen a lot of bullies in my life and he is acting exactly like one. Not sure I want that with the nuclear codes… or in control of the IRS.
The basic problem is that the world divides into those who are Of The Elite who only want to screw us over, Owned By The Elite who are willing to screw us over for a few scraps, or are Tyrant Demigods in Training… and want to screw over the Elite and THEN get to us…
Humanity has yet to develop a sound and beneficial form of government…
@Others Per Islam:
It’s my opinion that The Power Elite invited the House Of Saud and maybe a few others into the tent once they had a few $Trillion of petrodollars in the bank. That was the moment when suddenly The West got all cuddly and warm feelings about importing loads of Muslims everywhere. It was also just about the time that Masons allowed the use of the Koran as one of the holy books for swearing in… Considering their roots in The Knights Templar and the crusades that is no small thing.
So as of now The Power Elite have their view of the world as one big oyster (theirs) and we are all chattel to be pwned. The Muslim clique are happy to have the world handed to them on a demographic high reproduction plate, and The West Elite are too dumb to realize it and too bought into the idea that “All The Elite Are One Now” to recognize that they will NOT be able to subdue the Arab Street the same way they do to us Sheeple in ex-British-Empire and Holy Roman Empire Redux (i.e. EU).
Russia went along with it, as did China, during their financial recovery from too much Socialism (i.e. impoverished countries so economically broken even the Elite were feeling poor) but now that they’ve got jingle back in their pockets, are starting to chaff. (That being the kind of thing that causes regional and global wars… the Elite Chaffing…) So I’d love to be a fly on the wall at the Bilderberg meeting… as The Western Elite who dominate it cope with an under representation of Russia & China as they Chaff…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_participants
So they have “listeners” but not the Power Bosses in attendance. The only Muslim land of note in attendance is Turkey. So the Saudi “deals” are outside this particular forum…
My thesis here just being that the Bilderbergers are the big pow-wow of the Western Elite with some token contacts from places like Japan, China, Russia, Turkey (i.e. Asia) and are not as in touch with the whole global game. They are the ones who think “Islam-Lite” is achievable and just around the corner and decided we would be better displaced from our noisy voting power with an influx of “others” suited to confounding our voice (be it muslim “refugees” or Mexican “undocumented” or Indian H1b visa “tech workers” or… ANYONE who causes us to fight each other and not notice them…) Unfortunately, they care not at all for things like long term demographic disruption, eventual wars (that they find a nice way to thin the herd of braying mules out of the sheep…), and internal social conflicts (that let them pit group against group and stay as ‘peace keepers against the-others’).
They either can’t see, or don’t care, that this process has always led to a world of war and strife and that no, this time is NOT different and no, they are not superior to everyone in history.
They just care about playing The Grand Game and staying on top of the heap (however smelly and rotting they make it in the process) as near as I can tell. (There are clearly some who try to make things better; yet even there they are often badly misguided as to what really works. See the long failed history of Socialism and “social justice” efforts… Much of the present stupid comes out of the belief that the thing which caused National State Socialism to fail was the NATIONAL part of it. So if they can stamp out the “Nationalism” then the world will be just dandy under a benign Socialism Redux… so they’ve set about abolishing nationality and national self interest. Thus the need to kill off ‘American Exceptionalism’…and subjugate European nations under an EU unelected banner with population mixing EU wide.)
So, IMHO, The Western Elite have entered this Faustian Bargain with The Muslim Elite and decided to “mix us up” so they can rule the fight better. That simply will not end well. Islam is not compatible with Western Democracy (until and unless a Muslim Reformation happens, and the weight of their culture and history is strongly against that) and the demographics are that simple ‘replace in place by fast birth rate’ is a viable strategy that Islamic leaders have openly advocated. When that reaches a ‘tipping point’ it will ether be to “The Christian Lebanon Solution” of destruction of prior culture, or it will be a repeat of “The Spanish Solution” with a return of purges and crusades… but this time with nukes.
Personally, I’d rather have a “your side and my side” approach where both of us can live happy and peaceful lives as neighbors… but that isn’t a choice the Power Elite are offering to us. (And I really don’t know if it is from Evil Bastard intrigues of malice or just Peter Principle Stupid at the top not able to see where this ends.)
Oh Well. Watching history rhyme can be fun I guess. Just avoid the bullets and bombs… though that will be a bit harder when a Chinese cargo ship with an Iranian crew pulls up the Potomac and sets off the North Korean nuke under the 10 tons of lead in the hold… I just ask that they leave the West Coast for last…
Jon K,
It doesn’t matter. A religious fanatic will take that statement by itself and say making an image of anything is a sin. I’m not familiar enough with the Koran to know if the intention was the same as in the Old Testament, that you not worship an image. You may recall Cromwell and co went about destroying images of saints in English churches for example.
As I said before, religion can be a real curse in the hands of a fanatic. There always seems to be a few of those around. It’s not just Islam. Every sperm is sacred?
EMS,
I don’t disagree too much with what you wrote, that I didn’t see until after my last post.
You know what I think from that long piece I sent you about how new technology will change your life. (Industrial Heat’s commercial 1 MW LENR plant is on course to finish its 350 day trial in Feb.)
I rather think the power elites neither think about it or care about it providing they are doing well themselves – at least until they retire As the old saw says, don’t ascribe malice when incompetence is sufficient explanation.
As for “many of the True Believers and high Clerics demand the literal.” it seems to me we have our own share of those down south. How are you going to reduce the birth rate without increasing the standard of living?
I think the wealth differential is going to get people’s attention before the problem of immigration really surfaces, as can be seen by Bernie Sander’s rise and Corbyn in England for example. I rather doubt they will be able to do anything about it with the present Congress or Parliament.
I prefer UBI but socialism in the Scandinavian countries doesn’t seem too bad. There is definite unrest with the plebs now.
@E.M.Smith
Unfortunately even if a Muslim Reformation were to occur / succeed, history tells us it will be a long bloody process. Think 100 years war, and 30 years war as the European experience as an example. I suspect that none of us alive today would see even a hint of the conclusion of that process. I do suspect that we are in the early phases of that reformation right now. At the moment the pendulum is swinging toward the violent old school dogma, but it is also alienating a lot of folks who would just as soon carry on with their daily lives and be able to worry about much simpler things. We briefly saw a low key secular middle east (think Lebanon when it was a resort destination, or Turkey or Egypt in recent few decades when they were tourist destinations and they pretty much stayed out of international political saber rattling). That would be the period after Turkey and Greece went at it over Cyprus (1974) and of course Egypt vs Israel and the Yom Kippur War October 6 to 25, 1973. That sort of movement toward another way of looking at things is generational in nature and history tells us is usually a ratchet sort of 3 steps forward 2 steps back sort of process. I think we are in the 2 steps back phase right now but it will likely be 50-100 years before another peaceful phase resumes. Like the Irish troubles, the problem does not go away until the general public in mass gets tired of the bloodshed and violence. In a culture which remembers battles 392 years ago (Vienna Sept 11 1623 when the Ottomons were finally forced out of Europe or September 11, 1565 Malta 450 years ago ) and still sees that as an insult to be avenged (Sept 11 2001), it is going to be a long painful process. I don’t see any Muslim Martin Luther, John Calvin, Huldrych Zwingli like leaders on the stage any time soon. Resolving conflicts with blood feud societies and cultures is never easy. The west on the other hand has a very short memory, our culture is a kick your butt forgive and forget sort of world view. We have trouble celebrating events like Pearl Harbor or D – day only 70+ years later. That lack of historical context in the West makes it very difficult for the average person to grasp they are dealing with a culture which does not let go of either victories or defeats, and sees nothing wrong with trying to avenge a 450 year old defeat. They are long term thinkers and have no difficulty working toward a goal 100 – 200 years in the future. Bit by bit inch by inch they slowly nibble away at the problem. That is why they have been effectively at war for 1400 years with western culture only taking breaks every century or so to re-arm and reorganize.
Adrian,
You really give a 15th century political enforcer as your religious fanatic example? Everything Cromwell did was for political (aka evil bastard) reasons and had absolutely nothing to do with religious beliefs. Do you have any examples less than 500 years old? The worst I can think of are the asses at the Westboro Baptist Church and their warped view of Christian compassion. Compare that to the thousands of atrocities committed in the name of islam. No comparison.
Jon K
“You really give a 15th century political enforcer as your religious fanatic example? ”
No. It was an example of not tolerating images by Christianity.
Even the Pope, whose heart seems to be in the right place, is pushing AGW. When you consider how much money has been wasted on supposedly alleviating AGW, I consider it a major crime.
@Jon K:
I can give a much more recent example… At about 8 years old (or about 1961) I was going to a First Southern Baptist Church … (Why? Well, Mum was Church Of England but those were scarce in California and Episcopalians were closest but not in town so Methodist or Lutherans were closest to them but they were on the far side of town and Mum didn’t drive yet… so the closest thing that was close enough to them to walk to on Sunday was…) and asked:
Dad is Roman Catholic, but “we’ are not. What makes Baptists different?
And got an ear full. Including to look around and note the lack of “idols and idolatry” where those Catholics had idols all over their church… It isn’t gone here, just ignored…
@Larry:
I’m of the opinion we are in the thick of it now with Shiia / Sunni wars. Time will tell… but I’ll be long gone by 2115 when we get close to an answer…
BTW, since the Koran specifically says that if any land has ever been Islamic MUST be reclaimed for Islam at all costs and it is a holy duty and can NOT be let go… I don’t expect Islam to EVER accept a “Christian Europe”. After all, Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc. etc. are all “consecrated to Islam and can never be let go”…
@Adrian:
Fortunately, agreement is not required nor expected. Just use flowery polite indirection when calling me an Effing Brainless Idiot Awhole slimebucket of stupid and we’ll be fine ;-)
Any particular part you would like to ‘worry to death’ with analysis? ;-)
(Heck, sometimes, rare though they may be these days, I’m actually wrong about something and enjoy the experience of thinking “Oh F-Me, I’ve been spouting trash for at least 20 years on that!”… ;-0 )
Reference your comment about “in the middle of it” above:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/24/to-this-secular-muslim-ben-carson-had-a-point.html
EMS,
“Fortunately, agreement is not required nor expected. Just use flowery polite indirection when calling me an Effing Brainless Idiot Awhole slimebucket of stupid and we’ll be fine ;-)
Any particular part you would like to ‘worry to death’ with analysis? ;-) ”
If we disagree on something that doesn’t mean I think you are “an Effing Brainless Idiot Awhole”.
On the contrary, I have great respect for you. Just what did I write to incur your wrath?
@Adrian: No wrath involved. Note the smiley? It was an attempt at humor via exaggeration and extreme example to show the bounds are set wide… and not aimed at you so much as guidence for all. (What I had in the back of my brain was the quote about the legislature where “my esteemed colleague means that lying bastard…” and was playing that echo out larger… trying to put humor to the binding that comes from politeness in such contexts. Explaining humor can sure kill it… Oh well.)
Islam is incompatible with the modern World.
Give each and everyone who is a member of this death-cult back the choice.
Renounce this abomination that masquerades as a religion, or take a one way ticket to the Islamic Hellhole of your choice.
Lately I’ve been trying to imagine what a Trump presidency would look like. I also wonder what Trump would like to accomplish as President. Washington is broken yet still is capable of causing massive problems. Would Trump be able to scrap most of the broken stuff and replace with things that used to work? Would Trump be happy, like obam seems to be, partying with celebrities and playing golf? Would Trump view it as a failure if he couldn’t fix stuff? How would Trump be viewed, and view himself, if he didn’t do anything positive to help restore our “once great nation”?
@ EMS
I don’t disagree that Christianity has it’s share of intolerance and poor communication of ideas. Unfortunately, the poor communication is something I share as I have ideas, but have trouble communicating them effectively. I envy your easy eloquence. The point I was trying/failing to make is that the fanatics of modern Christianity vs the Islamic fanatics are not comparable at all with the overall effect on culture. One will cause you to shake your head while the other might just kill you.
@Joh K:
Oh, no doubt that you are accurate in saying most of such things are in the distant past for Christianity ( my statement about the Reformation is in the same mould).
While Christians of the late Roman Empire and into early Holy Roman Empire were more in the model of modern Muslims. ( “Conversion by the sword” and decapitation for non-conversion came from Christianity… and the Crusaders were the ones who started the whole Jihadi like dying as martyrdom thing. Highly parallel in many ways.) My comment was only to point out that some of those roots have tiny shoots still to today. (Note that Mormon followers were persecuted strongly in the 1800s. So much so they ran off out of the country and founded a State… that eventually got hauled back in and then they were faced with the Army telling them ‘only one wife each’ even though the Bible has polygamy all through it…) So while we are far improved over our past, it still lurks not too far buried…
Modern Islam is closer to where Christianity was in those days of forced conversions and The Spanish Inquisition… One can only hope it, too, outgrows such things. (But their book is far more dogmatic about it all and the interpretations far more strict, so not holding my breath…)
@Glenn999:
I honestly have no clue what Mr. Trump wants from all this. Maybe as he says, he just wants to fix the broken so his country (and his wealth base) don’t crash. Maybe once you have $10 Billion and are an over achiever with a God Complex it’s the next natural step ;-)
I think Trump would be happy in a Johnson kind of head banging and balls squeezing way… but would not get done as much as he expects since “backlash” would be huge. Then again, as a semi-Democrat he might do well at getting something for both sides and cutting deals in congress.
@Kon Dealer:
Well, not legal in the USA. That whole 1st amendment thing… But I do think there needs to be a better understanding (both by The Left who think we’re all cuddly and can be blended into a nice cultural soup; and by The Right who don’t ‘get it’ that a low wage with work ethic is not enough to build a stable country / culture) that there IS a core of Western Ideals that make our system work; and that they can not be set aside without it collapsing. Then make it clear to folks that they sign on to those ideals, or would be better served in a country that doesn’t have them.
No idea how to implement it…
@Larry:
What a fascinating article… On can only hope such Secular Muslims can win against their own cultural mire…
If brevity is this sole of wit then Mr. Carson had a brilliant response:
I will not be bound by P.C. Sharia law is not acceptable.
He just moved up again in my book. Simple, direct,straightforward honesty, this world desperately needs.
E.M., I could not figure out the “tips” page, but the issue sort of belongs here. In a post on a new investigation of Ted Cruz’s PAC for giving $500,000 to Carley’s PAC, a reference was made to this article in ZeroHedge. You might be able to make some sense of (all of) it. From my understanding this is some of what Donald Trump is fighting about — for all of us “middle-class, regular Americans. These are the people who “fun” the UN for their profit; these are the people who want America (and the rest of the world) open to their “will” with “free trade”; these are the people who are propagating control of the atom/molecules of life starting with carbon — AGW. Trump sees it all from his perspective and has been disgusted for a very long time. He also was mightily against Bush’s going into Iraq, too. Fox News at the head of the lying media — they pretend they are telling the truth; too many people have believed them (Ailes/Murdoch) for too long.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-13/project-omega-why-hfts-never-lose-money-criminal-fraud-explained
Interesting defense of Ben Carson’s comment about the conflict of beliefs an observant Muslim would have in taking on the U.S. Presidency and recent commentary by Charles Krauthammer
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/424671/islam-ben-carson-krauthammer
Poll of U.S. Muslims: 51% Support For Islamic Supremacists’ Doctrine of Shariah, Jihad
Click to access 150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf
https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/