Can’t Deport 11 Million? Canard

On the debate last night, we once again heard that it was “not possible” to deport 11 Million illegal aliens.

No, I’m not going to call them “migrants” or “undocumented”. My mother had to register as a ‘resident alien’ for decades prior to going through the naturalization process. There is nothing wrong with accurate speech.

These are “aliens” as was my mother. They did not come here in accordance with our laws, so are here illegally. Get over it.

The Math

So just WHY is it “impossible”? Is the number just so large that we ought to ignore the law? Most people get speeding tickets, so is THAT number large enough to just throw out the traffic speeding laws?
( I’m all for that, BTW… ;-)

Lets look at some numbers. Assuming their 11 Million is correct.

Say we wanted to be done in one year. Working only on week days and with 2 weeks off at Christmas / New Years. (Yes, Christmas. It isn’t the “Winter holiday”. It was named by an act of Congress See: http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/12/congress-declared-christmas-to-be-a-legal-public-holiday-in-what-year-2777188.html )so again, ‘get over it’. )

Figure on 50 ‘work weeks’ of 5 days each. That’s 250 days.

11,000,000 / 250 = 44,000 per work day.

There are 50 States with at least 50 major cities (the Capitol if no where else). Yes, some States, like Alaska, are unlikely to have a lot of folks to deport, but for each of them, there is a place like California with a half dozen major cities. It is quite reasonable as a first approximation to use 50 cities as the departure point target.

44,000 / 50 = 880 per day per city.

The Boeing 767 is one of the most common aircraft. It has variable seating, but assuming we are not talking about a lot of luxury first class seating, and more like tourist class:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767

The Boeing 767 is a mid- to large-size, long-range, wide-body twin-engine jet airliner built by Boeing Commercial Airplanes. It was Boeing’s first wide-body twinjet and its first airliner with a two-crew glass cockpit. The aircraft has two turbofan engines, a conventional tail, and, for reduced aerodynamic drag, a supercritical wing design. Designed as a smaller wide-body airliner than earlier aircraft such as the 747, the 767 has seating capacity for 181 to 375 persons and a design range of 3,850 to 6,385 nautical miles (7,130 to 11,825 km), depending on variant.

So lets use a seating capacity of 300.

880 / 300 = 2.93 flights / day / city. Let’s just call it 3 not fully packed (someone will miss some flights, for sure).

Now at SFO (San Francisco) they have a 2 minute flight spacing at busy times. So we are talking about wedging in 6 minutes of flights. I’m certain that can be done, even if not at peak morning / evening rush.

From: http://timetables.oag.com/itt/sfo/

Here are the flights to ONLY Mexico City from SFO today:

Details 	Departs 	Origin 	Arrives 	Destination 	Flight # 	Airline 	Aircraft 	Stops 	Total Flight Time
View	11:30	SFO	21:11	MEX	AA 2417	American Airlines	738	1	7hrs 41 mins
View	13:05	SFO	19:20	MEX	NZ 9821*	Air New Zealand	320	0	4hrs 15 mins
View	13:05	SFO	19:20	MEX	NH 7368*	All Nippon Airways	320	0	4hrs 15 mins
View	13:05	SFO	19:20	MEX	UA 821	United Airlines	320	0	4hrs 15 mins
View	13:35	SFO	20:04	MEX	AM 669	Aeromexico	7S8	0	4hrs 29 mins
View	13:35	SFO	20:04	MEX	DL 8001*	Delta Air Lines	7S8	0	4hrs 29 mins
View	23:01	SFO	05:30	MEX	AM 665	Aeromexico	738	0	4hrs 29 mins
View	23:01	SFO	05:30	MEX	DL 8050*	Delta Air Lines	738	0	4hrs 29 mins
View	23:30	SFO	05:35	MEX	NZ 9829*	Air New Zealand	320	0	4hrs 5 mins
View	23:30	SFO	05:35	MEX	UA 412	United Airlines	320	0	4hrs 5 mins

Yup, 10 5 of them.

UPDATE: Nick pointed out that 5 of these are ‘code shares’. See comments.

Somehow I don’t think they would find it all that hard to add a couple more.

But say they did.

Well, nothing at all prevents doing this process over 3 years. That way folks have more time to wind up affairs for those with things like houses to sell or kids to finish the school year.

Then it is down to just one flight per major city per day.

Frankly, that would be nearly impossible to detect in the mass of present air travel.

But Wait, there’s more!

But we don’t have to be limited to only the major airports and only the airlines, for that matter.

San Jose, California has flights to So.Cal. (Southern California: LAX, San Diego, Orange Co. etc.) leaving every few minutes. Often you can see the airplanes on the return trip lined up to the horizon, each spaced about 2 to 3 minutes behind the other. I’ve made that particular flight often.

Nothing at all would prevent having a few of them per day loaded with “Returning Home” folks. At the other end, a nice line of buses serves the whole area and can easily reach the border. Again, not a lot of added capacity needed.

There is also a nice set of rail lines from Seattle to San Diego and often a nearly empty Amtrak train is running around the country. While it has more ‘compliance’ issues in that folks might try jumping out of the train ( plane in flight not so much), it would be a reasonable alternative for folks who don’t like flying and are, for example, part of a family where the 4 year old is not going to make a flying leap.

Furthermore, if desired, folks could even get creative. Take all those school buses that are idle on weekends. For folks in places like Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and So. Cal. it would be pretty easy to just load them up and drive a few thousand over the border each weekend.

The Point

I’m not particularly advocating that this OUGHT to be done.
That’s a policy question.

I am pointing out that it is not at all a logistical problem to do.

We’ve had something like 4 million Syrians leave their country using “Shanks’ Mare” (as my Mum called it… walking).

So we also have an existence proof that you can move several million in just a few months with little other than shoes and rubber boats.

The point is simply that it can be done, fairly easily and simply, using our present stock of transport.

At the other end, Mexico has a huge travel and tourism industry. They are well equipped to land lots of airplanes (as those 5 flights from SFO alone indicates) and have a lot of local transport to move folks from the airports to various lodging places. But frankly, what they do with their Citizens is “not our problem”, really.

Anti-Racism Claims Rant

Oh, and for anyone who wants to try to paint this posting, or me, as “racist”:

1) Hispanic is NOT a race. Nor is Mexican.

2) According to US Law, I qualify as Hispanic. But that is really a bit of a stretch, though legally valid, IMHO.

3) From about 7? years old (maybe younger, it was way young…) the neighbor kid and I were very close friends. He had about 1/4 of his dinners at my house, and I had about 1/4 of mine at his house. They were a Mexican family and Papa didn’t speak English, near as I could tell. Mama had some, but would give orders to us kids in Spanish. I’ve been speaking Spanish ever since and have had something like 6 years of it in school. 2 in high school, but they started us off in grammar school in 5th grade. 5, 6, 7, 8 + freshman and sophomore. I have a great fondness for Mexicans and Mexico. And I grew up cooking and eating real Mexican food. Still make it about once a week.

4) My sisters have a mix of kids. One sister’s kid is part American Indian part Hispanic. The other married a Red Head of Scandinavian extraction, but their kids married Hispanics. I had not paid any attention to it and it was only after a few years that someone pointed out that “Rico” was Hispanic. Yes, I was that unaware. He was just a nice guy who was fun at family get togethers. In short, my family has not been in any way hesitant toward Hispanics.

5) I have a grandchild “on the way”. His Mama is Hispanic (Her Papa is from Puerto Rico). In short, my ‘clan’ is going to be significantly Hispanic. I’m very happy with this. (We could use a bit more ‘spice’ in our emotional tenor ;-) But simply put, my family is well on the way to being “mixed in” with the local Hispanics.

If anyone wants to somehow try to claim that I’m “racist” toward my own nieces, nephews and grandkids, I know a few choice Spanish swear words to apply…

What galls me about illegal aliens is exactly and only 2 things:

1) It is horridly unfair to those who follow the law.

2) I want my Mexican neighbors to come in through the Front Door, not forced to sneak in around the back door.

I was about 12 when I first realized “I was different”. The “Trucke Verde” was spotted a block away and a few “cousins” headed out the back door with my friend. I got up to head out with them. Mama said “Miquel Grande! You have no reason to run. Sit, the INS (pronounced Eee-Enn-Esse) is not after you.” While Papa had no immigration papers, he did have a retirement card from the Rail Road. Basically it showed he’d been here a very long time. The family story had him crossing the border on horseback with a Pancho Villa raid and then just staying… He was about 60 (mama was 40…) in the 1960s, but nobody was really sure exactly how old he was… But you did not argue with him… He looked the part, complete with mustache…

That event bothered me for a long time. I do NOT want others to live a life of fear. I want them to come in through the front door and be legal. Amnesty is NOT the solution, as that just breeds contempt for the law. Follow the law, and fix the legal immigration process. Then everyone can be comfortable. That is my ‘bias’. I’m biased toward the Rule Of Law. For everyone.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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21 Responses to Can’t Deport 11 Million? Canard

  1. philjourdan says:

    I would drop the last section. Those who are going to call you racist, would call you that regardless of your ethnicity, creed or color. All it takes is that they disagree with you.

    Your family is American. Most families are. The WASP is a myth of the democrat party that only exists in their hierarchy, and under some rocks.

  2. Ian W says:

    I am a legal immigrant now citizen. In a previous job I assisted some other legal immigrants to work their way to become citizens legally. It costs a lot of money and/or time to go through the immigration processes. It is galling that just walking across the southern border is enough for some ‘law makers’ to consider that the right to vote has been gained.

    Many perhaps most reading this will not have gone through the Kafkaesque processes of working one’s way through visas of various types to citizenship. But to move from a non-immigrant visa to a permanent resident efficiently and legally, I had to leave the country then apply to the US consulate overseas for my resident’s visa (and was told by my immigration lawyer that I could be refused at that point).

    So when Donald Trump says that illegal Aliens should leave the country and apply to be given an immigrant visa once they have left the country, he not inventing some sadistic procedure to be awkward. He is requiring the illegal aliens to follow a completely standard immigration procedure, the same one that I had to follow. The process for me took preparation in the USA, then on provisional acceptance a trip outside the US with a single day at the consulate being ‘processed’ both medical and documentation. Then fly back with the visa paperwork as a legal permanent resident.

    If people were less ignorant of the immigration procedures they would realize that Trump is correct. A family gets their paperwork together and sorted with assistance from an attorney (I am sure there will be many acting pro-bono or even state or federal employees). Once in order the family travels back to their home country, goes to the US consulate is processed and returns as completely legal permanent residents. Those who have questionable pasts of course would be filtered out.

    This approach does not show amnesty so it does not provide an incentive for more illegal immigrants. It also documents everyone that is in the country. So then the once illegal immigrants are ‘Permanent Residents’ – green card holders. That does not give them the right to vote, the same position of all legal immigrants on green cards. The problem underlying all the noise from the politicians is that the illegal immigrants are seen as undocumented Democrats and the Democrat Party is desperate to get another voting block – this is part of the reason for the Administration going to the Supreme Court. It is hardly fair that someone who follows the laws in this ‘Nation of Laws’ finds themselves not qualified to vote, whereas someone who flouted the law is allowed to vote by edict of a politician whose party will gain from those votes.

    In this instance I think Trump has identified the only fair way to deal with the problem and one that does not lead to a rush of more illegals.

  3. Larry Ledwick says:

    I find it odd how seldom those who talk about immigration and the problem of illegal immigration mention how unfair it is to those who went through the process and came to this country legally.

    I bet most who advocate letting just anyone in, would be the first to protest if someone tried to jump the line at Starbucks or that movie premier they want to watch in the theater.
    Try to push your way into the check out line on a Friday night at the grocery store or liquor store and see what happens!

    How on earth can you justify illegal immigration and yet it is totally unacceptable to jump the line at the DMV office, grocery store, movie theater, your favorite night spot, or the Starbucks?

    One of the things that makes America unique in the world, is that as a culture we make and enforce rules of social conduct that ensure some measure of fairness of opportunity, not opportunity enforced by power, rank or social standing. That form of social contract to preserve peaceful interactions and equal opportunity in life is relatively rare in the world as a whole. In many countries you cannot get anything done without paying a bribe (polite term for extortion payment) to those who control access and action.

    I don’t want to see America turn into that sort of place where you need to grease the palm of someone at the DMV to register your car in less than a month, or the same to some zoning offical get a permit to build a fence.

    The only problem I have with your suggested deportation system is that you did not incorporate a means to defeat revolving door immigration. When Eisenhower tried to effectively deport thousands of people he ended up putting them on a ship and taking them well past the border area and deep back in to Mexico. If they wanted to return and try it a second time it meant walking a few hundred miles to get back to the boarder. Many only tried it once.

    Make it a rule that they must be returned to a location in their country of origin that is at least 1000 miles from the boarder. Rotate the cities of debarkation so the cartels cannot set up well organized shuttle systems to bring them back to the border.

  4. E.M.Smith says:

    @PhilJourdan:

    I include it for the simple reason that I HAVE been called “racist” for using the name “Pablo” in a dinner conversation. I was referencing the FIresign Theatre skit with “Throw a towel over it Pablo” but they didn’t catch the reference and accused me of making an offensive “racist remark”. You can not defend against that once it is thrown at you. It is too late. The defense must be up front and clear. So that’s what I do now.

    IF I didn’t do that, you can be assured a site that wishes to smear “deniers” would link to the article and say “See!! They are racists!”. Now that link would be useless to them as it also shows my family is closely tied to the Hispanic culture and intermarriages are making that closer.

    While I hate the idea that one must indulge in “defensive posting”, since the Dimocrats (the most Dim of the Democrats) have decided to use it as a weapon, one must defend and defeat it.

    @Ian W:

    My Mum had been a ‘resident alien’ for about 15 years when she finally got through the whole citizenship process. As a war bride married to a G.I. it wasn’t ever in doubt, but it was easier to just re-up the card each year. So she did. Eventually she decided to ‘go for it’ and after about a year (or maybe more…) we had the Citizenship Party…

    It just galls me to know friends who are fighting that battle the proper way and yet millions get the free ride… A Scots friend with a Ph.D. spent years and $Thousands to finally get it done. One of the brightest guys I ever hired. But The System wanted to pitch him out if he ever was unemployed (don’t know exactly why, but we had to do some paperwork for him to keep him in country with his particular visa). Sigh.

    @Larry:

    Well, I thought it was sort of implied that one needs to lock down the border and do internal visa tracking better…

    But on that front, I’d be quite happy to have a simple change to the law:

    IF you self-deport and follow the normal rules, you can apply for green-card and eventually citizenship (after language and history classes as Mum had). BUT, if we have to pack you up and ship you out, fingerprints go on file and while you can apply for a green-card, you are barred from Citizenship.

    I’d also apply that to anyone who has been deported a couple of times already and returned and to anyone convicted of a felony here or in their home country (modulo political prisoner type convictions for wrong think or wrong talk…)

    Given that the NSA is tracking every single cell phone, and Google / Twitter / Facebook etc etc are tracking every single web browse and GPS geolocate on Android, the idea that we can’t find folks is a bit absurd a proposition. While no fan of “big data”, it exists and Big Brother is already using it.

    So someone does the ‘catch and release’ return thing. They just blew off citizenship, and on a repeat you blow off any green-card ever. Pretty quick it is clear that those who follow the law get the reward and those who cheat get a very stiff penalty. At that point, you take the repeat offenders and put them on an escalator of ‘penalty box’ time. One year for every illegal entry. So first return is a 1 year stint, 2nd return gets 2 more. I’m pretty sure that would slow the crossings and have only the more criminal minded willing to risk it. Exactly the ones you want in jail and barred from citizenship / residency. Also you make a list of ‘known contacts’ for that person. They get monitored for traffic / contacts from said repeat offender. That adds a peer pressure element along with dampening the social support network. “Aiding and abetting” does not look good on a job application.

    Tough? Well, yeah. But the point isn’t that I’d want to do that, the point is that there ARE ways to do enforcement that works. Take away the “goodies” (so no welfare, unemployment, etc. as no green-card) and add penalties for the bad behaviour. Pretty straight forward stuff.

    And yes, I know it will never happen.

  5. This is hilarious. Where’s your Like button? Truly done by a scientist or data nerd, like myself. I do have some counter points, which deserve their own post. So I’ll link to yours for introductory reading, then make my own points to elaborate. But I don’t think I have as much patience as you!

  6. Clay Marley says:

    Might ask Mexico first if they want their 11 million people back. 11 Million people, most of whom are seeking a better life they cannot get in Mexico, and willing to do illegal things to get that better life. When the hope of America is dashed, what will they do?

    No, the Mexican government won’t be allowing any of those planes to land.

  7. Terry Jay says:

    Yep, it is an invasion, and act of aggression. It needs to be dealt with firmly, sort of like this is a country with actual laws that respects and enforces those laws. Even Caesar Chavez referred disparagingly to “wetbacks”. Laws are not just for the “little people”.

    I used to support and encourage immigration. and thought the H1B quota was a bit low, and then Disney used it to displace how many IT folks? Screw it, WAR! The Bracero program seemed to work ok, but that got blown up. The only issue in the coming election is immigration, and how to control it. A wall and mass deportations sounds like a good start.

  8. John F. Hultquist says:

    First, I know very little about this and know almost no person or families that are part of the issue. However, I can still make the following 2 points.

    A: Not all the folks are from Mexico, so the logistics are a bit more complicated.
    Demographics of Immigrants
    “As of 2012, the population of immigrants in the United States illegally is estimated to be approximately 11.43 million, roughly 3.7% of the entire US population. 59% of the immigrants in the country illegally are from Mexico, and 25% of all immigrants in the country illegally reside in California.”
    Go to the site to see more – there is a map. Note my phrase above: a bit more complicated; but does not mean it is impossible.

    B: My heritage gives me a dislike of wasting time and value. For example, the 2009 “Cash for Clunkers program” was a waste of everyone’s time and resulted in valuable used vehicles being trashed. Those were vehicles less-well-off folks could have purchased. Rather they were trashed. We gave a ’93 Buick away to a person that needed a car – it did not qualify for the C4C program anyway.
    The point is that having millions of people using time and money (whose?) to touch a base and bounce off again bothers my frugal sensitivity. From the chart at the link given I see there are about 300,000 people from the Philippines. Going there and back is not a day trip and is not available by Amtrak or school bus.
    I can see establishing a processing center in many US counties [not a major city near me but there are many aliens within 75 miles (illegal, I don’t know about). The cost would be a lot less and the same issues addressed.

    The US is wasting millions, maybe billions, on global warming. We don’t need another money pit, although either way the solving of the 11 M and counting issue will be a good thing.

  9. p.g.sharrow says:

    I understand about 6 million are Mexican and more of them are going back then are arriving. The Depression here as well as all the US jobs moving south is making Mexico look better all the time. Let us encourage them further.
    If caught, Put these criminal invaders in prison first, then deport. No coming back. Or Self deport and get in line. “Anchor Babies” and “Dreamers” can stay or go home with their mothers. They are all actually citizens of their mother’s countries or can declare for American citizenship when they are 18.
    This is doable, just not a Liberal feel good thing. You can’t let illegals stay because those stupid supremes ruled that everyone here must be given all social services. Many of the rest are known to have over stayed their visa. these need to found and put home…pg

  10. Nick Fiekowsky says:

    There are five physical aircraft traveling from SFO to Mexico City every day. The other flights are code-shares. The flight operator’s partner airlines add their own flight number and can sell tickets.

    Clues include identical departure times and the asterisk after the flight number.

  11. E.M.Smith says:

    @Nick:

    Nice to know. Doesn’t change the point much, though.

    @John F. Hultquist:

    IMHO having more countries makes the logistics easier as there are a lot more airplanes going that way to put folks onto and a lot more destination landing places… I focused on Mexico as one simple example, not from a belief that all illegal immigrants were Mexican, and to demonstrate that even with a ‘worst case’ to one destination it still works.

    The law presently says that if you are hear illegally, you MUST leave before you can apply again for entry. That PITA is for the express purpose of discouraging folk from overstaying visas and just walking in and making a claim. It is a valuable provision that ought not be let go. If you bypass it, you are inviting millions more to make a dash across the border and join the line…

    @Norbert:

    I don’t have a “like” button. See my posting about Social Media:
    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/why-i-dont-visit-facebook-pages/

    I’d rather you just posted a comment saying “I like it” and not have you bagged, tagged, and tracked… nor have my postings tagged…

    Yes, I’m a “data nerd” … 8-}

    @Clay:

    They will let the planes land. If they don’t, we close the border. They get something like $50 Billion a year of trade surplus with us. $137 Million per DAY. I figure it would stay closed for about 30 minutes while the planes circled and frantic phone calls were made… then they would land.

    @Terry Jay:

    As someone who has been at The Mouse House when 2 different times a large round of layoffs happened in I.T. I can tell you it was significant both times. It is why I didn’t get hired there. I was a contractor and worked to build the relationships and just about “time to apply for real job” rolled around, the teams I worked with got laid off… and my contract ended. Back to unemployment in California (again…)

    I specifically discouraged my kids from going into I.T. precisely because of the H1B visa flood. Another of those ‘unintended consequences’ of stupid government policies. High wages are the signal that gets a generation to do the schooling to learn those jobs. Suppress the high wages with H1B visas and you get less supply as folks take finance and marketing classes instead…

  12. philjourdan says:

    @EM – I understand why you did it. I was just observing that it will not matter. They are going to call you a racist just because you do not agree with them. They really are one trick ponies.

  13. p.g.sharrow says:

    @philjourdan, Not a problem. Only a whiteman can be racist. The ChiefIO is Hispanic ;-). Hispanics can’t be racist. Afros can not be racist. Only 1 of my grand parents migrated to the U.S. all others were here before there was a U.S. so I must be a Native American and can not be a racist. Says so right here in my Liberal hand book! Of course the worst racists I’ve ever met were Liberals with dark skins. You can sure tell a Liberal but you can’t tell them much. They just “Know” how things must be. Everyone that does not act the way that they dictate must be evil and must be cursed. They especially hate reality!…pg

  14. philjourdan says:

    @P.G. They get around that by relabeling you – “White” Hispanic or “White” black, etc. Just look at Zimmerman, half Hispanic, 1/4 black, but a “White” Hispanic. But if you are a “correct” thinker, then you can be a “Black” white – like Dolezal and King.

  15. p.g.sharrow says:

    The H1B visa program is a way to fill positions with Cheap Disposable Educated workers. When I had a corporation that did work for the Electronics Industry I would get “come-on s” to send my HR people to training sessions on how to write job descriptions so only only a H1B holder could fill the job. A visa holder that they would provide at no extra cost to the employer as the H1B Visa holder paid them to get an American job. The canard that Americans won’t do the work needed is bs. Announce you have jobs and a line forms. Some of them actually want to work. Train them and if they are valued someone will be trying to hire them away. HR people only want to hire people that already have a job, training and willowing the chaff is expensive and time consuming. Government requirements for American employees is a problem. H1B visa holders are disposable, dependable (can’t quit), are trained (well sort of) and much less expensive. Importing Cheap, locked in, labor is as old as civilization. Serfs, slaves, guest worker, migrant worker, etc. all the same. Cheap, can’t quit, disposable laborers as needed is the objective…pg

  16. Jason Calley says:

    Hey philjourdan! “They get around that by relabeling you”

    Yes, just like they labeled our President as black. His father was black, but his mother was white, and he was largely raised by white grandparents, in a white culture and educated at mostly white private schools. Somehow that makes him the first black President. Logic has nothing to do with racism, whether it is white racism, black racism, or any other flavor.

    Madness!

  17. p.g.sharrow says:

    @philjourdan, yes Liberal Progressives are pathological liers. They lie about reality. They lie about others, they even lie to themselves. They are not logical. Some kind of brain damage caused by being educated beyond their intelligence leads to the disease of Liberalism. There have been cases of remission if those infected are forced out of their antiseptic Ivory towers and into the dirt of reality.;-)…pg

  18. Terry Jay says:

    A 2006 article on Eisehower’s approach to immigration:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
    Note the title of the operation.
    Terry

  19. It took me ten years to become a US citizen. I ended up jumping through the hoops twice because my company posted me to Brussels six months before my first application was due for completion. On my return I had to start again from scratch.

    My point is that immigration decisions should take weeks rather than years. If you have skills that are in short supply (e.g bricklayer,, welder etc.) you should be on the fast track. If nobody is lining up to hire you the answer should be a quick and decisive “NO”. If you are here illegally you should be jailed and then deported regardless of how many “Anchor Babies” you have.

    What we don’t need is a permanent underclass of folks who will work for less than minimum wage so that the Fat Cats at the “Chamber of Commerce” can keep wages low.

  20. You said

    What galls me about illegal aliens is exactly and only 2 things:

    1) It is horridly unfair to those who follow the law.

    2) I want my Mexican neighbors to come in through the Front Door, not forced to sneak in around the back door.

    —— ——

    In Europe we have prime examples of your first point with millions of people currently jumping the immigration queue. However they are not doing it by the back door but smashing their way in through the front and overwhelming the countries they pass through on their way to their chosen destinations. It is an invasion.

    Some (around 40%) are genuine refugees but they are overwhelmed in numbers by economic migrants who in recent months have been encouraged to risk the crossing points across the Mediterranean by Angela Merkel apparently going mad and suspending various immigration agreements. It won’t end well in Germany as the migrants-refugees and economic migrants-are parcelled out arbitrarily to towns that do not want them.

    However, Germanys problems pale into insignificance compared to the social suicide being practised by the Swedes who have become so pc that you can’t even call an immigrant an immigrant and whilst the population are now beginning to question the wholesale changing of their society it is likely too late for them to do anything about it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/11992479/How-Sweden-the-most-open-country-in-the-world-was-overwhelmed-by-migrants.html

    There is an interesting bar chart part way down highlighting the relative number of refugees that major countries take (The US is way down the list as is the UK)

    it obviously reflects well on Sweden that they are open hearted, but their refusal to limit the numbers of refugees and economic migrants is now backfiring.

    How you devise a policy that meets the needs of refugees and economic migrants- and satisfies the concerns of indigenous populations who tend to be overwhelmingly against mass immigration- is beyond my pay grade.

    tonyb

  21. Arizona CJ says:

    My parents were immigrants. Legal immigrants. They followed the law, and it took them several years to qualify for entry. They had to pass a health check, a criminal history check, and also, in the case of my father, complete his credentials. They were issued green cards, and were notified that if they committed a crime, they would be deported.

    My parents did it the right way. They also took great offense at illegal aliens. I’ve long considered illegal aliens to be a slap in the face to immigrants who followed the law. I’ll also note that our immigration laws (even if enforced) are far more lenient than those of, say, Mexico.

    My take; deporting 11 million would be difficult, but so is enforcing many laws. However, I take issue with the notion that it would be necessary to deport that many, because many would self-deport if unable to find work (such as if we used the E-verify system).

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