A Small Muse On Polls

Over the years, my “phone etiquette” has changed. Dramatically.

As a child, I was trained to answer the phone with “Hello, this is {my name}” often followed by ‘how can I help you’ or something similar. If someone asked for another person, you were to state if they were available, or not, and then offer to fetch them.

That was in a small farm town with 4 digit phone numbers. We were one of the last places in the country to get 7 digit numbers; and that was only after the local newspaper went on a campaign to get people to complain about it. (Most of us were fine with it, but he made a lot of long distance calls and didn’t like that he couldn’t just dial them, and worse, that nobody even knew our 3 digit prefix for dialing inward.)

Eventually, we got 7 digit numbers. Just about the time I left high school… and I learned how to call home by dialing “all those numbers” from the dorm phone… Then, later, 7 digits became mandatory for inside of town calls too.

Then people selling stuff started to creep in, and pollsters, and then scammers. Now we teach our kids to never give out their name nor say who is at home… or where anyone has gone.

Protocol & Methods Now

Now, in the age of caller ID and GPS and all, my phone etiquette has changed to be “unknown is presumed hostile”. So what does that mean in practice? It means a white list.

My standard protocol now is pretty simple. IFF you have an entry in my telephone and your name displays, I may answer if the time is convenient. (i.e. not driving or in the shower or…) but if you have no entry, and either “Unknown” or just your phone number displays, well, those go to voice mail. Leave a message and I’ll evaluate it. Don’t leave a message, I presume it was some kind of Highly Undesirable Contact. HUC’s (and HUCksters) come in many forms. Sales guys. Promoters. Political parties. Companies. Governments and legal crap. And, this season, likely Pollsters too.

Turns out this is a highly effective filter against almost ALL offensive calls. Seems that just about none of the folks you don’t really want to talk with will bother to leave a message. And if they do, you know not to bother calling back ;-) There is the occasional ‘new friend’ or ‘friend of a friend’ call you miss, but most of them do leave a message and a quick call back adds them to the whitelist. I suspect I may have missed calls from a few job recruiters over the years, as they only leave messages part of the time, but it is an acceptable price to pay.

FWIW, I conducted a test with a ‘burn phone’, now that resumes are often shared over the internet, in databases, in hacked systems, etc. etc. So “going forward” my resume protocol will be to have a burn phone number listed and it evaporates with the job acceptance… This preserves my privacy, yet lets me know to ‘go ahead and answer any old number’ on ‘that phone’ during the job search time. The same ‘burn phone’ is used to respond to things like Craig’s List car adds, where some scammers are now putting in ‘too good’ ads to harvest phone and email information. I ran into one of those. AFTER collecting contact info, he launched into a ‘story’ about the vehicle being out of State and someone else would hold the money and such. ALWAYS, use a burn phone and disposable email address for responding to ads, or in your own ad…

Now I’ve generally found the “We want to be your FRIEND!!!” bull pucky being pushed by many financial institutions lately to be just a PITA and to some extent a lie. I don’t need a ‘personal relationship’ with my bank, just an arms length financial one. I used to have 2 American Express cards. One private, one for my company. On several occasions, I’d go on one of my sporadic trips. I’d get about 600 miles and the card would stop working. I’d call them. “Well, we tried to call you, we suspected fraud so disabled the card.” Me: “Oh, so whenever I use your ‘travel card’ for travel, I can expect it to not work? Got it. Thanks.”… THEY expected me to be available at their whim to validate myself. They needed this due to the credit card companies implementing horrid security protocols. Maybe with the advent of ‘chip and pin’ we can get something better… At any rate, my solution was simpler: Drop the cards and save a couple of hundred $ a year of ‘membership’ charges along with annoying phone calls and folks tracking me…

FWIW, I now use a WalMart Debit card when traveling. I can refill it at ANY Walmart at all sorts of non-bank hours any day of the week, and it seems to just always work… and no phone calls either! I bought the ‘expensive’ one that cost $6, but has no refill fees. The ‘cheap’ $3 one charges you a few bucks on every cash fill, so one fill and you have paid for the better one. Oh, and if you run $500 a month through it, there’s no other charge, any low month is $5 (so still less than the AMEX monthly hit). Between gas and groceries I usually hit the monthly usage, and when on trips especially. Oddly, the Walmart Gift Card gets you a discount on gasoline prices, but their Debit Card does not (likely as it is through some bank…), but I digress.

About Polls

Now as you might guess, I’m not the only one doing this kind of thing. LOTS of folks now have a public (disposable) and a private email and / or phone. I used to just ‘get in the grill’ of folks demanding my phone number and simply refuse. That works most of the time, but with some PITA factor. Having a burn phone with a number that rotates every few months is a lot easier… It also leaves a load of data stream pollution behind you for those data-consolidator types to try and sort out. So, for example, you make a DBA Filing. That’s a “public record” and your address / phone / etc. get sucked up by various companies and put on the internet. (Unlike when the laws were passed and interested parties had to go to the county courthouse and search by hand…)

Well, when that address is a P.O.Box and the phone rotates, it’s not so much of a security issue. Google maps can’t check out your home and cars in the driveway, and the phone will not be leaking your GPS location (being left unpowered until needed… which is only after a number change and a job search starts ;-)

A Brief Digression on Phone Switches:

A Phone Switch is a very specialized computer that talks to phone lines. The Telcos use a lot of them to build their phone systems. What folks often don’t realize is that the PBX (Private Branch Exchange) box in a company is basically the same thing. (I actually bought an AT&T – later Lucent Tech. one for a company where I was Director of I.T. and stuff). Now these are interesting devices. See, the Phone Companies have to be able to spit out phone number information to make Caller ID work. They do this in the PBX. They guy who configures the PBX tells it what number to say it is…

This means it can lie. Now you can’t lie about your home phone or your cell phone; but a company can lie via their PBX when they call you. So a scammer or pollster in, say, the Bahamas or NYC can tell their PBX to display a Texas (or whatever your home town is) area code and prefix on any call they make to you, and it will. Many such folks do this since many folks learned not to answer 800 area codes or strange ones from out of State…

So lately my Cell Phone has racked up a variety of “odd numbers” that didn’t bother to leave a message. Many of them in my area code… I figure those are likely political polls (but could be worse). Looking them over, I noticed a bit of ‘pattern’ to the numbers. Now phone numbers are NOT randomly assigned. The “best ones” are harvested by the Telcos to hand out to favorite clients.

I know this because as Director in charge of telephones my phone service salesman from the Telco offered to get me a vanity number with ‘good digits’ (and I took it… it was easy to remember and, well, pleasant somehow.) The “left overs’ get handed out to randoms in the residential space. So, say you were in a 415 area code, 415-415-xxxx would likely be a block used for special customers. Similarly, 415-xxx-1234. Zeros are one of the ‘better numbers’ for reasons I can’t ken.

Most of the numbers in my missed call list had a zero in them, typically in a central or last position. Just not a random lay. There were some other aspects of the numbers that just set off my “person picked this out of the air” sense. (Lack of repeating digits, hardly any 7s but lots of 6’s, etc.) When you work with telephony for a few decades you get familiar with how a normal number ‘feels’ vs one that was ‘human picked’. I’m pretty sure those were PBXs lying about their number.

The Bottom Line

So put it all together:

Lots of folks ‘catching on’ to the game, going to burn phones, white-lists, turning off their cell phone during prime polling hours (dinner time – 6:30 – 8:30 or so), etc. etc. The pollsters are missing a LOT of folks.

Those folks will have shared traits and behaviours. I don’t know all of them. Some will be antithetical to each other. So, for example, drug dealers are unlikely to take calls from unvetted sources but the same will be true of ‘security guys’.

My assertion, based on little other than ‘gut feel’, is that the kind of person who is Grumpy At Government and not particularly liking how Big Business has been treating them; will be more likely to also be something of a Surly Curmudgeon when it comes to unsolicited phone calls from strangers. Thus they will be highly under sampled compared to the typical frothy headed SJW (Social Justice Warrior) type. Any attempt to fix up the numbers to correct for this will be prone to huge error since at any given time folks will be in flux on their emotional state about the whole thing AND as they adapt to changes in the world, shifting what box they are in. I have progressively gotten ever harder to reach and while I occasionally was polled 30 years ago, I’m now essentially impossible to reach except if I choose to call back.

The implication of this is that Political Polls will have far more college students, secretaries of executives, lonely seniors, non-working home keepers, and such; and far fewer business owners, executives, lawyers, doctors, security guys, pissed off farmers, Grumpy Gus construction workers, and in generally Surly Curmudgeons who have found ways to stop the crap calls from reaching them.

All of which leads me to two simple conclusions:

Most polls are getting crappier and have likely reached the point of being not very dependable (ever wider error bands).

This error will be biased toward Progressives and against the Independent / Surly Curmudgeon voters (and a little against Republicans).

Which then leads to the further conclusion that, as with BREXIT, the Trump / Hillary polls are likely to be off about 5% even after “correction”…

The only way I can see to get a valid poll would be to do a door to door and then match the individual particulars of the folks reached to the population percentages (though even that will have errors from folks, like me, who look out the door at folks with clipboards and “just say no”)… Or I’ll take the poll and give the ‘expected’ answer. “Why yes, I’m all for Hillary”… Surly Curmudgeons are like that, and our ranks have grown a LOT under Obama…

Folks are also slowly coming to realize that any “information leakage” can be damaging and finding ways to ‘dirty the data’ for their own protection. I would never have thought of it 20 years ago, yet now I do it as a standard behaviour. Someone on the street wants some information from me? I have no idea who they are our how it will be used against me in future years. So they get useless non-data.

Since data harvesters now harvest public records and ship them to the entire world: Want Russia or want Communist China to know your home address, name, car you drive, financials? -all the better to blackmail people – just open a business and do the required DBA filing at the county courthouse… or find a way to ‘dirty the data’. Rich folks have done this for decades by using their lawyers to do the filing or using shell companies overseas for indirection. Now it’s time for the ‘common Joe and Jane’ to learn the trick…

So that’s my conclusion. Folks are learning to ‘dirty the data’ and be unreachable via various indirections. That makes polls ever more error prone and not very useful.

Humor / Epilogue

I ran into this video via a link to a link… It’s an “epic rant” by a rabid Feminist SJW going batshit crazy at a guy. He’s given testimony that supports a new police station, then is interviewed by a news team. The BSC-SJW just can’t stand it, and does a “name and shame” attempt attack. “What’s YOUR NAME!!!”, that can only be for purposes of future abuse. The “target”, just tosses her some ‘dirty data’ and then the ballistics start. It goes on for a while, and eventually hits a security guard, corporate security manager type, and even the police get a call. Always the same attack “WHAT IS YOUR NAME!!!!” and then rant.

Now my name is ‘special’ in that 1 in 2000 people have my name (based on every place I’ve worked). So I could state it publicly and it is still functionally ‘anonymous anonymous’. But for most folks, their name is the key to much more information about them that can be easily used for attacks. I’ve spent a while thinking about a pseudonym to use in such circumstances… I may have found one I like ;-) I’ve also thought of changing my name to Noneov Theabove and running for office ;-) So maybe Noneov C. Theabove would be handy to use… At any rate, enjoy watching someone with little clue and zero self control completely lose it, alienate everyone around her, and damage her cause:

It’s about 9 minutes, with some embedded commentary to explain some of the context (there are many dirty words in it… like x rated):

Then here’s another take on it (also with strong language… really a flood of them… 9 minutes):

Now I’m very happy with his “dirty the data” approach, and I’d only note in passing that using a pseudonym is not generally illegal… note that authors and actors rarely use their given name…

Now think that guy is more or less likely to ‘take a poll’ than would be her and her friends? Hmmm?

Do note that since “name and shame” is clearly a planned tactic, you need to be prepared with an appropriate pseudonym…

I think maybe Alby Dissin… or Cimore Fox… or maybe Hugh I. Pitty…

And that kind of ‘risk’ is why you won’t ever get me on any poll, or any interview on the street, nor will I give you my name if you attack with a ‘name and shame’ approach.

Now just ask yourself, given this kind of crap, how many folks would publicly answer such a person with “Trump” vs “Hillary”? I’d answer “Hillary” every time… said Mr. Semper Lion…

Oh, and I’ve learned a new trigger word… “regressive left”… Apparently if you use that, you are automatically “Alt-Right” (at about the 5 minute mark). There’s an interesting exposition in this otherwise slightly boring video that discusses things in a way too rational way most of the time. Oh, but still works in some swear words. Oh, and it seems that Harambe (the gorilla) is somehow racist… but having just learned about Pepe The Frog “memes”, it’s unclear racist toward whom by which. Then again, I never thought of frogs and gorillas as racist.:

It seems that there’s a whole world of SJW vs “young turks” vs ??? vs “ALT-right” vs… out there that I’ve not discovered until now. These folks seem to know about each other and there seems to be a fair depth of video history. (Though I have no idea who the ‘young turks’ are, or really any of the persons named either). I suspect it’s some kind of Gen-X or Millennial thing that I’m just not in touch with… but it does look like some backlash is in the younger generation culture.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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87 Responses to A Small Muse On Polls

  1. H.R. says:

    You’ve got it nailed, E.M. My wife and I just hang up if no-one says anything within 3 seconds or if it’s not one of 10-20 voices we recognize.

    I occasionally like to mess with someone working off a script by interrupting frequently with questions that go farther and farther afield. It starts with, since I don’t hear well, me asking them to repeat their name and the company they are calling for as well as the reason for the call. After I get that straight, I ask where they are calling from and start a conversation about the weather there. Then I might go into where they went to school or if they enjoy fishing, which will set me on a 5-minute monologue about fishing. If they are stupid enough to hang in there for more off-on-a-tangent questions, I’m in it for the duration. One of two things usually happen: a) they hang up on ME! b) if they manage to get a word in edgewise here and there and eventually complete their pitch, I politely say. “No,” or “No thank you,” and hang up. I can’t recall getting repeat calls from anyone who catches my fancy for the mess-with-them treatment.

    Ooooh! Another favorite is when they ask for my wife is to respond in my nice, rich, baritone, “This is she.” They get all nervous and don’t want to say anything about my low voice. But sometimes I get called out if they suspect I’m messing with them and then I go into my “How dare you I am so offended who is your supervisor?” tirade. Fun times if you have some free time to waste their time.

    Polls: put us in the “grumpy curmudgeons” category. Anyone who does call and starts “I’m with XYZ polls and we’d…” [CLICK!!!]

    Re PO boxes – My wife set up a P.O. box in the adjacent city (we’re in a series of ‘burbs around and surrounded by a larger metropolis). When that P.O. Box is used, unless someone wants to do a l-o-o-n-g stakeout and then attempt to follow to find the real residence, all it gives out is the general geographic area. If I don’t want anything in the mail, I go with the Blues Brothers’ standby and give them the Wrigley Field address.

    I have a cell phone which I never answer (no kidding), much to my wife’s dismay. Typically it’s because I can’t hear it even at max volume and even on vibrate, it’s in the cargo pocket of my shorts or on the seat of the car, so I don’t know that anyone is calling. She hates my Dirty Harry VM message; “You’ve reached ph# and you have to ask yourself, Do I feel lucky? If so, leave a message on the off chance that I’ll look to see if I have any messages in the next week or so.”

    We’ve been getting a lot of “if someone answers, hang-up,” calls lately. They want to go to voice mail so they can leave an intriguing message in hopes you will call back and thus, you have ‘established a business relationship’ with them. You can’t complain if you call them.

    I LOVE the pseudonym idea! I think I’ll go with a Sgt. Schulz theme and use “Eiffel Nutting.”

    “WHAT IS YOUR NAME?!” “Mr. Nutting.”

    “WHAT IS YOUR FULL NAME?!” “Eiffel… Eiffel Nutting.

    Or maybe I.C. or Ino Nutting would work.

    This will be an entertaining and informative thread, E.M.

  2. Larry Ledwick says:

    I use pretty much the same system for phones, I simply fail to answer if it is not a known person. I tell new contacts that I want to be reached by, to send me a text for first contact. Something like:
    “Fred from the garage, please call xxx-yyyy”
    That text will get a call back because I know who it is and can verify the call back number is their listed number.

    The other tip I have learned is if the phone only rings 4 times and then goes silent it is always a junk call. Robo calls don’t stay on the line to see if you will pickup. It used to be in the old days that you gave a person anywhere from 6 -12 rings to get to the phone (might be in the garden and have to run in the house). Now days folks expect you to pickup on the second or third ring. I can’t even get my cell phone out of my pocket in 4 rings if I am sitting down.

    My name is very unique so that is a blown bit of data, no way to get it back so I don’t even try any more. When a business asks for my phone number the response if I have no ongoing relationship with them is a polite “no” or “You don’t need that”. In the beginning they would push back but in the last year or two I have noticed they just nod and go on with the transaction.

    Unfortunately due to my job I am sometimes pretty much on call and have to at least check who is calling.

    The other give away is problem phone calls often happen at key times, like when a day shift worker would be expected to be on lunch break, or at the top of the hour during prime time when tv stations are on commercial break.

    I thing a lot of conservatives intentionally play the pollsters also. I know a lot of people who would be inclined to misdirect the pollster if given the chance.

    Even the younger generation is starting to catch on, thanks to things like Doxxing and Swatting by radicals of their own generation.

    People don’t realize how much info they give away by data leakage due to traceable data like credit card purchases. Unless you go totally stealth like Jason Bourn, nobody who lives a normal modern lifestyel can really drop out of the pool of data businesses use for data mining customers (and in some cases resell to others).

  3. Serioso says:

    A friend, now deceased, reported that he frequently asked his callers for their name and credit card number, because “I charge $50 a hour to listen to calls like these.”

  4. Power Grab says:

    I also don’t answer unknown callers. I do look up their numbers on the web, however, and if I find that they’re known scammers or other lowlifes, I save the numbers with an appropriate label and set them to not ring. That way, I am no longer bothered by their calls.

    As for misdirection in the face of political challenges…my people historically will register for the party they don’t like, then they can vote in the primaries of that party and select the candidate who has the worst chance of winning.

    It always seems to me that those old folks who lived through the Great Depression acquired a lot of wisdom that you don’t learn in a school room.

    Re Brexit – it sounds as if the pollsters never saw it coming! Must be a lot of Surly Curmudgeons over there, eh?

  5. Larry Ledwick says:

    Interesting twist on polls and the difference between married and single women for HRC and Trump.
    http://dcwhispers.com/married-women-love-trump-hillary-not-much/

  6. Gail Combs says:

    Us married ladies appreciate Alpha-Males and not lap dogs.

  7. gallopingcamel says:

    What a totally awesome post! There a dozen things I could comment on but my favorite is American Express. How can such a clueless company survive?
    Like you I had two Amex cards in 1984, a personal card and one from my employer. I found the service awesome as much of my spending was in foreign currency and Amex used commercial exchange rates. In 1985 Amex applied tourist exchange rates and when I complained I got a computer generated reply. I responded by saying that I had destroyed my personal card and would destroy my company card failing a response to my complaint.
    As you can guess Amex sent another computer generated response so I have shunned this company for 30 years.

  8. Gail Combs says:

    Sounds like AmEx got HAAaaaavard Business Schooled.

  9. Alexander K says:

    I am a compulsive Europe and USA-watcher from here in New Zealand and I have a suspicion that Trump is doing much better than the MSM report, similar to Brexit, which according to the pundits was supposed to be a lost cause.

  10. John F. Hultquist says:

    “What’s YOUR NAME!!!”

    My name is Yon Yonson,
    I live in Wisconsin.
    I work in a lumber yard there.
    The people I meet as
    I walk down the street,
    They say “Hello!”
    I say “Hello!”
    They say “What’s your name.”
    I say: My name is Yon Yonson…

  11. Another Ian says:

    Gallopingcamel

    I once was on a conference tour “organised” by AmEx

    Fully in Latinish style – amo amex amess

  12. Martin Clark says:

    Then there are telephone or email surveys … devised by total incompetents, eg leading questions, ambiguities, massive errors of logic, etc. One of the worst ones was from Price Waterhouse Cooper. No kidding. I offered to fix it for them for my usual very reasonable consultancy rate, but I got no response.
    You don’t get charity calls EM? You donate something to one charity and the next thing you are getting 2 or 3 phone calls a week from every charity under the sun. As we say in Oz, “don’t feed the possums”. Charities passing on contact details has to be the stupidest business plan. I found that a polite refusal does not work, only abuse is effective.

  13. philjourdan says:

    I have my own throw away name – Oscar P. Lipschitz. I came up with that one 40 years ago when I was in college. Like everyone else, I also do not answer calls I do not recognize. But I never thought how widespread it is. So yes, it would tend to screw up polls (and could be why the “Poll leader” changes each election). Also, while I have used my phone for on-calls (which meant that I had to answer it), at least in those cases the calls were only local (from my boss or another mucky muck).

    However, on the subject of AMEX, I love my cards. I have one for my DBA and one for me. And whenever I have had a dispute, they were fast, good and sided with me almost exclusively! And on several occasions, they called me when a “strange” charge was made – left a VM (as I did not answer it), and saved me a lot of hassle!

    I do not know if the polls are accurate. And this year I do not care. Several here participate in another blog that I have already made my views on the election clear. I am resigned to the nation committing Sepaku. I figure the voter fraud will reach new highs this year, and the support of it are the polls they will use to show there was none (even with documented evidence there is).

  14. For me too the house-phone is answered by the answering-machine, and the SIP phone tells me who’s ringing. Unknown numbers don’t get answered. Spamming has reduced the usefulness of the phone system, since someone not on the list who does actually want to contact me can’t except by email. The only time I’ll answer the call is where I’m expecting a call from someone.

    I was also taught to answer the phone quickly and give name and phone-number, but that bit of politeness only causes me problems these days. No gratuitous information is given.

    I’m thus not going to be on any of the poll statistics unless someone comes to my door and asks. Interestingly, there are no house-names, house-numbers or road names in this hamlet, which makes even that a little difficult. They’d have to get directions from the postie, who knows where everyone lives.

    Burn phones (or at least a cheap SIM in the normal phone) haven’t been needed yet, but I’ll bear that in mind for when I need it. The mobile, however, only gets used when travelling and few people have the number.

    It does seem that I’ve become a curmudgeon over the years. As it’s become easier to phone someone I’ve reduced the number of people I’ll talk to. Email is in any case much more convenient since it doesn’t entail stopping everything else and can wait until I have the time, and gives me time to research the answers if needed.

    It does seem that the phone-polls are inevitably going to be biased towards the opinions of the young (who haven’t yet got clue) and people who like to feel that their opinion is being listened to by *somebody*.

    I suspect this was a major factor in the UK opinion polls’ errors both for the last election and for Brexit. Considering just how dire the threats were if the UK public dared to vote for a release from the unelected bureaucracy of the EU, I think that if each side had been realistic about the gains/losses rather than issuing threats and lies then the vote would have been much larger in favour of Brexit. Of course the UK will remain 22 miles or so from France and there’ll be a lot of business between the EU and the UK, introducing visas for travel would hurt them more than the UK, and there’s absolutely no reason for the UK to want to deport EU citizens who already live and work there. What is required is simply a limit on the number of people who come from the poor Eastern European countries looking for work, since that large influx of (often well-) qualified people willing to work for less than minimum wage will (and has done) depress the local labour-markets in the places they move to and make housing more difficult. A slow influx can be dealt with, but what has happened is a fast increase in population that hasn’t been planned for and where the infrastructure is not adequate. Unsurprisingly, it’s caused problems. This isn’t however racist as such, just an economic mismatch between countries that are now treated as equal even though they aren’t. A while back there was a spate of Welsh country cottages (owned by English) being burnt down because the English could pay more for them, and so the houses were being priced out of the range of the locals with lower local wages. The EU is trying to rush the change of society, and social change can only happen slowly if you don’t want riots. The idea might be noble, but the execution of it is too much like the USSR and will likely fail for much the same reasons of bureaucratic inefficiencies.

  15. H.R. says:

    Social Justice Warriors

    Social = socialist
    Justice = everything comes out the way we want regardless of legalities, logic, or actual fairness
    Warriors = shameless bullies bludgeoning anything in their path with a PC club

    Just thought I’d lay out a few definitions related to the videos.

    Best regards,

    Ino C. Nutting ;o)

  16. philjourdan says:

    I had not even commented on the videos. They were great! We need idiots around like that to remind us that tyranny is just an idiot rant away.

  17. E.M.Smith says:

    @H.R.:

    My Florida Friend once had a sales pitch call from a company he’d asked to leave him alone a few times. He spent a good 20 minutes asking ever more detailed questions about the product, how it worked, what was the payment process; often with repeats and digressions and ‘say again’s and… Eventually, the slowly flustering sales person made some statement indicating nearing end of rope (like “I’ve gone over that three times, don’t you want to buy yet?”) and the F.F. said ~”As long as you are talking to me, you are not bothering anyone else.” Realizing they had been had, “CLICK”… Never got called again ;-)

    BTW, your cell phone protocol is similar to mine. Due to the tiny high pitched squeek of older cell phones, I can’t hear the “ring” more than 3 feet away. Then the cargo pocket doesn’t transmit vibration well… IIRC my “message” is something like “Leave a message”… or it might be the default computer reading the number “You have reached 4….oh…..8….. ” as I reset it to that once… And yes, I check for messages at least once a week; except when I don’t…

    @Larry:

    Thus my dropping of credit cards and use of a disposable Debit Card. I have a Real Debit Card with my bank, but only ever use it to take wads of cash out of the ATM dispenser. Then a trip to Walmart to load the junk card and buy groceries for the week.

    So far I’ve not really needed to rotate the Walmart card, but it’s all of a $6 cost and a couple of minutes at the service counter to load the new one… Then again, it is almost entirely used for groceries, so not leaking a whole tot of info either ;-) Sometimes gas at stations where buying with cash would be a PITA (location, or closed-but-pumps-take-card). Oh, and it has been used for payments to the burner phone some times… when I was out in nowhere and could not buy another anonymous refill card… So I’m not paranoid enough to be a spy ;-) More doing it for fun and play / practice… I think I used one of them a half decade back for some Amazon purchases… but that was a different card, IIRC.

    At any rate, I use cash whenever possible, and a hard to figure out not-a-bank card for most of the rest, and then rotate sometimes… and no connection at all between Bank and Card…

    At any one time, my max exposure if hacked on the junk card is about $200 average. Load with $400 to $500, buy groceries, down to about $300. Over the week or two run down to about $10. Repeat. Go ahead and skim my number at Target… You get nearly nothing… (I think that happened, BTW, as I’d used one of these at Target… but nothing ever was lost from it. I suspect the number flags as a debit card with low utility and so nobody in the scammer community will pay for it, not even the $few minimum…)

    @Serioso:

    Oh, that’s always a good one! I spent a while trying to find the modern equivalent of “976 numbers” as I wanted to put one on my cell phone and hand it out to all the misc. “askers”… but it seems that they have essentially gone away.

    I haven’t cared enough to work out how to get one if they do still exist as it was more work than I was willing to do for a ‘fun joke’ behaviour.

    As I am an on call contractor much of the time, I have sometimes said “Oh, you didn’t call for tech support? Please state the nature of your problem so I can route you to the proper service provider.” which is close, but not quite the same…

    I’d love to have a ‘reverse billing’ phone number, but they seem to be a European thing now.

    @Power Grab

    My Mum went out of her way to introduce me to what she learned in Britain during W.W.II and my Dad did the same per The Great Depression. He assured I could raise food (garden and small animals) and hunt; as that fed him and his family when he was about 12 (and sent out with ONE .22 LR shell … told “Bring back something to eat, and you get another one. Waste it, you don’t eat tonight.”) while Mum, when I was about 9? made a bowl of tunafish and mayo and put it on a plate with about 6 crackers, then we went into the back yard to eat it. She said “Now I want you to imagine, imagine really hard, what it was like for me at your age. See this bowl, imagine that is ALL you have to eat FOR THE WHOLE WEEK.” then we each dipped a cracker, ate it, and the bowl was set aside…. After a few minutes of contemplation, we ate the rest ;-)

    I hope I’ve gotten some of that understanding into my kids, though I’m sure it is faded a lot.

    And yes, despite the Hyper Polite Veneer, the Brits have a great love of Surely Curmudgeon ideation… It makes a great deal of their humor and culture, contrasting the outside with the inside… (Think of John Steed in the old B&W Avengers… a good thumping delivered with a smile and polite conversation ;-)

    Then their love of Mystery Novels and the good Murder Story shows they just love misdirection and deception… Oh, and how they did a marvelous job of deception in W.W.II ….

    @G.C. & Gail:

    I think I was a bit slower on the uptake, likely due to little foreign exchange use. For me it has only been about 20 to 25 years ;-)

    And yes, I suspect it was an “upgrade” of management that caused it… They basically made me feel abused, so I abused them in return… That whole “Be the mirror” philosophy of mine…

    @Another Ian:

    Ooooh! I like it! A declining of decline!!! (declension and all)

    @Alexander K:

    Say Hello to North Island for me…. Had a wonderful visit there far too many years ago. A great roadside restaurant dinner somewhere near the big lake in the middle of the place, and an introduction to a wonderful “Bordeaux” that was softer than most and very drinkable…

    Mum had an old friend (and husband) there from the UK, and I got to visit with them “for her” ;-)

    Loved Wellington and didn’t want to come back to the States… but at the time N.Z. was picky about who was let in. Oh Well. I still have the “how to immigrate” packet somewhere in my memento box ;-)

    @John F.:

    Tee Hee ;-)

    @Martin Clark:

    Yeah, I stopped “feeding the possums” some time back. Sadly. Now our charity giving is directly to the Church. In cash.

    Oddly, I DO feed the real possums in my yard… I’d started feeding the doves, then the California Banded Pigeons showed up, and the squirrels – all a great show. Finally, noticed possums chewing the sunflower seeds and sucking out the good bits, spitting the shell wads… now take in the sunflower seeds at sundown and set out cat food… less to clean up that way. In exchange we have a constant picture window of entertainment day and night. (A small ramp leads up to the shelf outside the living room window). It is a nearly constant parade of ‘wild’ life.

    Why feed them? I spent years trying to control snails in my yard and garden, then one year a possum showed up under the shed. A few months later, no more snails. They love snails… So I have kept a comfortable access to under the shed and ‘snacks’ available since; and still have no snail problem ;-)

    @Phil Jordan:

    Like the name!

    Per voter fraud: The way the democrats push for things that make it very easy is frightening. At the moment, I could easily vote in at least 2 States WITH ID, and more without. I don’t as “that would be wrong”… but I’m sure many others don’t care about such details.

    We really do need validated voting.

    And yes, per the videos, that’s why I violated my own ‘sort of soft rule’ of not posting profanity or profane videos for them. It was a bit of an eye-opener for me just how BSC (Bat Sh..) the SJW folks are / can be.

    I think it’s that British streak in me from Mum… “Dear, could you please stop screaming like an idiot? Folks will think you’ve lost it… which, by the way, you might go look over there to find it again… near the trash bin.”

    @Simon:

    I only recently started exploring the burn phone, and then only because as a hired gun I have to circulate the resume widely and all sorts of folks have begun harvesting that information. Microsoft has bought Linked-In, so you can bet they will be info harvesting, and then PRISM collects everything…

    So given that I MUST put out a resume with all the interesting bits of my professional life in it, and contact info, I figure at least I can make the contact info volatile… on a slow rotation.

    It also means I don’t need to rotate the “private” cell as often. So far, it has been about once a decade, but the rate has picked up a bit. I just projected that about 3 to 5 more and it would be an issue, so started getting ready. Having work calls segregated also helps ;-)

    Oh, and see “The Grapes Of Wrath” for the same migration driven resentment inside the USA. It wasn’t racist either, as pretty much all the “Okies” and “Arkies” in caravans to California were “poor white trash”… it was just the flood of impoverished folks willing to do any work for any money and live in their cars that was creating havoc…

    You would think someone in the EU would have at least seen the movie…

    @H.R.:

    You got a real laugh out of me with that one…

  18. Larry Geiger says:

    555-1212. Number that I give out when people ask me for my number. Only ever had one person tell me, “Hey, that’s directory assistance!” It’s a valid number and easy to memorize.

    It amazes me that people call my phone with name “Unavailable” and number “Unknown Number” and expect me to pick up? Yeah, sure I’m gonna pick up that phone. NOT! Why in the world do they even bother. Must be quite a few dingbats out there that make it worth their while. I can’t figure it out.

  19. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry:

    They often simply do not know how they are caller ID’d. IF they bought a PBX, and the guy who configured it was not instructed what number to put in it, or was just lazy, it comes up null. Now unless the sales guy calls himself, he never knows (and likely doesn’t care).

    Basically, it takes diligence to make the number the right one, and guile to make it a false one. Very few places have both diligence and guile… especially when selling crap for jerks…

    BTW, ANY number with xxx-555-xxxx is a bogus number, so you can use any of them and be assured it is not going to bother someone else. Many of the folks who catch on to 555-1212 don’t catch on at all to 916-555-3442

    I used to feed such false numbers to stores who insisted on my handing over a phone number to do business with them. (At Best Buy I had a BIG collision on 555-1212 as a LOT of other folks had used it… the clerk looked at it and just smiled… he had clue.) Then I just went to “not going to happen” and “you don’t need that” and similar. Now I just say “no one gets the phone number unless they are paying me for my time”… So it’s been a while since I had to use the -555- dodge. I suspect companies have started to catch on to the offensiveness of it.

    I have hit a couple of web sites that reject the -555- pattern numbers. There are other number groups that they don’t reject, though. Smart ones catch 9xx-xxx-xxxx but many don’t. Some catch 8xx-xxx-xxxx but many don’t. The nice thing is they let you try repeatedly until one takes ;-) Oh, and when in doubt, I had never found “Popcorn” to fail… but it looks like the service is now history:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2007/aug/29/business/fi-lazarus29

    Time of day calling it quits at AT&T
    August 29, 2007|DAVID LAZARUS

    It’s the end of time, at least as far as AT&T is concerned.

    The brief note in customers’ bills hardly does justice to the momentousness of the decision. “Service withdrawal,” it blandly declares. “Effective September 2007, Time of Day information service will be discontinued.”

    What that means is that people throughout Southern California will no longer be able to call 853-1212 to hear a woman’s recorded voice state that “at the tone, Pacific Daylight Time will be . . .” with the recording automatically updating at 10-second intervals.

    “Times change,” said John Britton, an AT&T spokesman. “In today’s world, there are just too many other ways to get this information. You can look at your cellphone or your computer. You no longer have to pick up the telephone.”

    Indeed, time already has stopped in 48 other states, he said. California and Nevada are the two remaining holdouts.

    In Northern California, the prefix for calling time is 767, or P-O-P on a telephone keypad. For decades, locals up there have dialed POPCORN any time they have had to reset their watches or reprogram electronic gadgets after a power failure.

    “In California, our equipment has gotten old,” Britton said. “It’s reached the end of its life span.”

    Time’s up statewide Sept. 19. Britton said Nevada service would live on borrowed time for an unspecified period, until the equipment in that state similarly starts breaking down.

    One upside: AT&T says doing away with time would enable the creation of about 300,000 new phone numbers in California beginning with the 853 or 767 prefixes. (No such numbers have been issued to date because, when coupled with any four other digits, you get time.)

    Oh Well… 2007 eh? Guess I haven’t used that one in a while… or someone with 767-2676 gets a whole lot of mysterious calls from Best Buy ;-)

    I don’t buy the “equipment breaking down” line, they just wanted to harvest the numbers…

  20. philjourdan says:

    P-O-P-C-O-R-N was Tiger11 here. But yea, I think the Internet killed those numbers. ;-)

  21. E.M.Smith says:

    @Phil:

    Or the cell phone… On power flux, I just pick up the cell phone as it has radio set perfect time and then walk the house resetting clocks, stove, VCR (yes, I still use them… no preventions on what I can record), etc. etc. (My computers self-set via net time…)

    I clearly haven’t called POPCORN since at least 2007 as I didn’t know it was defunct until I searched and found that article ;-)

  22. Good fun. And though I suspect the phrase predates the program,
    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks

  23. cdquarles says:

    Call to get the right time? Maybe, but the radio broadcasts used to go “ding it is 10 o’clock” and you’d be good to go resetting the wind-up clocks. ;)

    I don’t have a common name, but it isn’t unique (I’ve checked both the printed books back in the day when libraries carried them and then the CDs for a few bucks to the web now). Oh well. Given some of the calls I get, I don’t answer them either unless I recognize the number. Occasionally I have regretted not answering a legitimate call. I don’t have a burn phone but can do it if necessary. I’ve used Wal-mart money cards for years. The last one that I had did give cents-off at any attached Murphy Oil station. Dang, I didn’t know that had changed. I do have reloadable Wal-mart gift cards. A hook now is the pay-by-phone apps that are popping up these days. Wal-mart’s one, at least, can be limited to a reloadable gift card.

  24. philjourdan says:

    A bombshell of sorts: http://gradworks.umi.com/10/10/10106085.html

    I find a significant negative relationship between Medicaid expansion and labor force participation, in which expanding Medicaid is associated with 1.5 to 3 percentage point drop in labor force participation.

  25. Gail Combs says:

    Phil,
    Not too surprising. Medical coverage was a very big draw to entice Wage Slaves to the corporate slave pens. If you can get coverage AND go into business under the table, it is a win-win for Surly Curmudgeons™.

    $2 Trillion US Underground Economy Is the Free Market Striking Back? That is 8 to 10% of the US economy and is likely double that given how the government hates to admit ‘dark stats’ like the real unemployment numbers. (>20%)

  26. David A says:

    I just give out my number as 867 5309, with the 9 a bit drawn out.

  27. Larry Ledwick says:

    This is a phone number that you can use too1 ;)

  28. H.R. says:

    OK, I’m sensing a theme here. ;o)

    We’ve got a lot of call screeners commenting, so what does that say about the people who answer their phones and talk to the pollsters? Gullible or surly curmudgeons was E.M.’s guess up in the article.

    I’d say a fair proportion from both parties are booster-types that just can’t wait for the opportunity to proclaim whether they are for Trump or Hillary (or the sucker vote for the other two). But there is good data on the bases that will vote the straight party line.

    How much of the independent vote and party pooper vote is in play this time; 20%, 30%?

    And does it matter if the elections are electronically rigged? Is that why Hillary is just barely going through the motions of running a campaign; she knows the fix is in?

    (Caught 2 catfish tonight. They are starting the fall feed.)

  29. Gail Combs says:

    One estimate I saw was 29% (D) 29%(R) and the rest Independents. (Wish I remembered where I saw that)
    The Obama:Romney voter ratio was 1.08. in the general election so that more or less agrees especially since Romney was not particularly liked. “Voter turnout dipped from 62.3 percent of eligible citizens voting in 2008 to an estimated 57.5 in 2012.”

    Older data by Pew showed  Democrats (32 percent) Republicans (23 percent) and  independents (39 percent) while Gallup, who is globalist, and Reuters who was caught cheating said Democratic (29%) and Republican (26%) in January.

    Of those 29% (D) 45% supported Saunders and of those supporters 45% are #NEVER HILLARY! Or about 1/4 of the solid Democrats are not going to vote Hillary either out of active dislike or lethargy. It is amazing how this never shows in the polls.

    Jul 25, 2016 – A new CNN poll out Monday found that 45 percent of registered Democrats surveyed still wanted Sanders to win the nomination

    And
    Nearly Half of Sanders Supporters Won’t Support Clinton: Poll “A June 14 Bloomberg Politics national poll of likely voters in November’s election found that barely half of those who favored Sanders — 55 percent — plan to vote for Clinton. Instead, 22 percent say they’ll vote for Trump, while 18 percent favor Libertarian Gary Johnson…. the Bloomberg poll found that only 5 percent of Sanders supporters who don’t currently back Clinton would consider doing so in the future.”

    Jul 18, 2016 – According to a new poll, Donald Trump leads Hillary Clinton 40-31 among independents, a 9-point lead just a month after the same poll said the two were tied among those voters.
    (wwwDOT)washingtonexaminer.com/trump-surges-among-independent-voters/article/2596818
    ………………

    You can get ANY number you want by changing your assumptions on what percentage of voters are (R) vs (D) vs (I). In most cases the (D) percent is elevated and the (I) percent is less than the (D) or (R) which does not reflect reality. In one case the 18 to 35 age group (Saunders supporters) was entirely left out.

    And then there is the Monster Vote. The forty percent who do not bother to vote because they see politicians as universally corrupt. This group is a real wild card because Trump seems to be waking them up.

  30. Gail Combs says:

    Sundance has an interesting comment on polling too Example #254,418 Why Polling News Is Just, Well,.. Silly…..

    No, we are not going to reverse course and start deconstructing the insufferable media polling. We are committed to continuing to ignore the nonsense, the ‘shiny thing’ chatter.

    However, every once in a while an example surfaces where we can explain that decision using a current case in point. Cue today’s PPP Florida poll….
    .
    .
    OMG… “tight race“. Oooooo,…. Ahhhhh,….. etc.
    However, look at this first:
    .
    .
    Wait, huh… wha?…. 16% of Registered Democrats are supporting Donald Trump? By itself that’s called burying the lede; but wait…, Independents are split even (not likely)… and yet somehow Trump is losing overall?

    The only way that’s even remotely possible is if PPP necessarily over sampled the Democrats in Florida. It would take a considerable “over sampling” to pull off a Clinton poll lead….

    The deconstruction is interesting for those of us who like ‘Dig Here’

  31. Gail Combs says:

    dcrowes (Jet pilot forum) mentioned this after the Clinton – Trump debate:

    Tonights forum a few minutes ago Polldaddy.com
    Who won the Commander In Chief Forum?
    Donald Trump 67.48% (9,096 votes)
    Hillary Clinton 30.35% (4,091 votes)
    Neither 2.17% (292 votes)
    Total Votes: 13,479

    Commander-in-Chief Forum: Secretary Clinton -vs- Donald Trump (Video)…

    The chatter is that Hillary had an earpiece AKA cheating. Eargate, is now going viral all over Twitter.

    Bill Still discusses the type of device
    https://lockerdome.com/sgtreport/9030703027470100

    Also picture showing earpiece shows a long scar on neck. Thyroid cancer maybe? A few months ago Sundance showed before and after pictures of a ‘lump’ removed from Hillary’s tongue.

  32. Pingback: If they were to offer something interesting … | Orphans of Liberty

  33. Quail says:

    When I pick up the phone before I realize it is a sales call, I pretend to be the answering machine. I’ve heard some interesting comments while doing that.

  34. Jeff says:

    Would be interesting if someone tried to jam it.

    My son (who wears hearing aids) has a similar device integrated into his hearing aids. His professors wear a transmitter/mic that picks up their speech and sends it to the receivers on his hearing aids. Here in Germany the number of frequencies and channels that can be used is fixed, although newer equipment can break that down into smaller bands. Nonetheless, he heard someone else’s lecture a year or two ago on the way to class :) Phonak and Comfort Audio are the big players over here for the “FM Anlagen”, there are probably more in the US, as well as “spookworthy” equipment.

    Having said that, jamming would be just as unethical as cheating by using one. Trump will look all the better when he defeats an outright cheater.

  35. E.M.Smith says:

    Would be more interesting to capture the band and send her bogus talking points :-)

    Start clean then slowly drift wild and see when the penny drops…

    As spouse of a president though, I’d expect she has encrypted spread spectrum spook gear…

    Does explain some of the robotic affect… and slow halting speech at times.

  36. H.R. says:

    @Quail, re faking the answering machine

    I’ve tried to do that once or twice, but I wasn’t mentally prepared to pull it off. You did give me an idea, though. This common message is easy to have ready and could be lots of fun.

    “You have reached XXX-XXX-XXXX. Please leave a message after the tone.”

    I can’t do an electronic beep imitation, so I’d just stay silent and so the ‘beep’ never comes. Let them puzzle that one out!

    @E.M.
    “As spouse of a president though, I’d expect she has encrypted spread spectrum spook gear…”

    Considering her choice of “expert electronics advisors,” I wouldn’t be surprised if Hillary had…

    Running for President? Having trouble remembering your own Lies? Can’t remember what day it is or what city you’re in? Don’t want the FBI or State Department to know you are using your own electronics?
    As Seen on TV! Miracle Ear! Only $29.95! Act now and we’ll send you a second one absolutely FREE! Yes, that’s TWO Miracle Ears for only $29.95 (rapid sotto voce) plus S&H of only $18.95 for each Miracle Ear. ACT NOW for this special offer! Operators are standing by!

  37. H.R. says:

    @Gail
    Thanks for the additional info on the possible percentages of party poopers (PO’d Democrats who might vote for Trump or not vote at all) and the Independent vote. I saw a poll of Independents after you and I posted and it had Trump/Hillary at about 60:40, yet by some miracle, the race is about even or Hillary is slightly ahead.

    The Propaganda Arm of The Democrat Party (AKA the Main Stream Media) has always dutifully reported in every election that the Republican candidate is hopelessly stupid, inept, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, gun-toting, and a Bible-banging bitter clinger, and if elected will kill all of the elderly, starve every child, kick puppies, drown kittens, and end civilization as we know it. OH! And they always report polls showing the Democrat Candidate has a lead that will be impossible to overcome to discourage Republicans from voting.

    This time around, it seems the polls are so bad for Hillary (from the MSM viewpoint) that they are having trouble just keeping the race close.

    I guess I’ll be keeping my eyes peeled for information on which group is the largest; Never Hillary or Never Trump. That may be where the race is decided.

  38. H.R. says:

    Hey, Gail. Larry posted this link over in Tips that answers some of my questions regarding polls. Rasmussen seems to be tracking the most telling voter attitudes, but I’m not seeing the MSM reporting anything but Rasmussen’s straight up poll results showing the election is ‘close.’

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/is_there_silent_trump_support_that_pollsters_are_missing

    (Thanks, Larry!)

  39. E.M.Smith says:

    @HR:

    got a good chuckle out of that one!

    You are right, of course, it was silly of me to think She Of The Radio Shack Computer would trust ths pros available from the spook TLAs to help her keep secrets…

    and. ..

    On MSM and babies & puppies, I must point out your information is dated. Starve? Kick? How Brady Bunch… now the pitch is so shrill surely the symbolism is more: strangling puppies and eating roasted babies…. /sarc;

  40. Gail Combs says:

    Careful of Rasmussen Reports. They got sold to a lefty and Scott Rasmussen left in a huff in Aug 2013 so that explains why Obummer seems to have an OK rating.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/318351-founder-scott-rasmussen-out-at-rasmussen-reports

    Bought by ‎Noson Lawen Partners

    A Ted Carroll article (one of the partners)
    Journalism Isn’t Just About Informing Readers Journalism is also about helping readers take action

    He does not see reporting as objective journalism and he and Matthew Ingram got taken to task for it at Gigaom in the comments.

  41. Verity Jones says:

    If I get a sales caller I just quietly put the phone on the counter and let them talk to air. Eventually they realise I am not there and hang up. When I am retired and have time on my hands I will adopt the Florida Friend’s strategy (E.M.Smith @ 7 September 2016 at 5:17 pm).
    I was bothered during work by my personal cell phone ringing a lot and having to dive into my desk drawer and handbag in case it was family emergency, only to see it wasn’t and choosing not to answer. I downloaded a free app called Truecaller, although I was a bit sceptical if it would work, but actually it has been very good. It stops the phone from ringing if the number isn’t in my list – the caller doesn’t even get to voicemail. The app lists a missed call from X number, and it will tell me if other people have reported the number as spam, or it is a telemarketer number or just unknown. It learns the number if I do chose to call back.

  42. gallopingcamel says:

    Verity,
    Great to know you are still out there! For the last week or so I was travelling in Colombia without my laptop so it was difficult to keep up with the very interesting stuff going on here.

    I have tried the techniques mentioned above but now say “Thank you for calling but don’t waste my time or yours by doing it again”.

    In my dreams I have the talent to pull off a real leg pull like this one from Tom Mabe who pretends to be a homicide detective:

  43. Larry Ledwick says:

    It will be interesting to see how the spin meisters handle this if turns out to be true.
    It is looking more and more like she is a real sick puppy.

    http://dcwhispers.com/hillary-clinton-to-withdraw-from-public-for-next-five-days-updated-wvideo/

  44. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry:

    Post concussion syndrome and microsiezures, along with withdrawl / habituation / rebound effects from the drugs to keep it controlled in public. Cough is a side effect of tongue cancer and her speech has a slight lisp for what was removed from her tongue.

    Diazapam (valium) used to control seizures loses effectiveness as habituation forms, so bigger doses and less control.

    She’s already burned most reserves and the sprint to the end just started. As time drags on, watch for increased fatigue, anger, and moodswings. Also more stumbles and face freezes.

  45. Larry Ledwick says:

    The interesting question is, how does the DNC handle this? Do they keep her propped up in the corner long enough to get elected? Then let Tim Kaine take over (sort of like Ford got in after Nixon resigned) or do they let her crater early enough to push in a late substitute and play on the sympathy vote.

    It looks like a really tough choice for them, can they keep the Hillbots dazzled long enough to skate through the election phase and past the inauguration? What happens if she gets elected but is not capable of taking the oath of office? (interesting constitutional question)

    As you say “sprint to the end”, some of these deteriorating health situations go down hill very quickly once they start that last plunge. The epithet Hillery Rotten Clinton may take on a new meaning as she rots from the inside out as cosmic justice takes its toll.

    People talk about the Kennedy curse, their might also be a Clinton curse, seems their hard ball political games and misdeeds have a way of spilling into public view at inopportune times, Bill’s indiscretions seriously weakened his presidency after the ML scandal and ushered in the Contract with America congress. We may be witnessing an historic political and personal implosion of a candidate.

  46. Larry Ledwick says:

    RickLeventhalFoxNews ‏ 20 minutes ago (@ 7:57 MDT)

    BREAKING: law enf source: Hillary Clinton just left 9/11 ceremony w/medical episode, appeared to faint on way into van, helped by security

  47. H.R. says:

    Larry,

    Also consider that early voting has started. What happens if Hillary becomes hopelessly incapacitated or dies before the election? There is nothing in place that I’m aware of that would allow those votes to go to anyone but the Pres/VP team.you voted for, and you’ve already cast your vote. Early voters shouldn’t get a do-over.

    I suppose the solution would be for any party that loses a candidate right before an election would be to – right quick – select a new team and the get out the word for the party faithful to write in that ticket.

    I still believe that once one has cast their ballot in an election, there is no do-over. However, there is no telling how our courts would rule on that issue.

  48. Larry Ledwick says:

    Good point, I personally think early voting should be limited to something like 3 – 10 days only. Just long enough to help out people who have other commitments like a business trip or family emergency, but not so long that the last 3 months of campaigning is meaningless. With long term early voting if you can drive enough folks to vote early on some fabricated event you lock in their vote before all the facts emerge.

  49. Larry Ledwick says:

    Thinking a bit about your comments on early voting, this is one place were the electoral college would provide an alternate for that. You are actually voting to select a group of people in the electoral college to cast their votes. If the primary candidate were incapacitated at the last minute the electors who were originally pledged to that candidate could probably select an alternate substitute candidate (this is a dig here item for sure). I am not absolutely sure how much flexibility the electors have on the first ballot of if they are obligated to vote for a specific pledged candidate.

    http://people.howstuffworks.com/question472.htm

    The Electoral College is a controversial mechanism of presidential elections that was created by the framers of the U.S. Constitution as a compromise for the presidential election process. At the time, some politicians believed a purely popular election was too reckless, while others objected to giving Congress the power to select the president. The compromise was to set up an Electoral College system that allowed voters to vote for electors, who would then cast their votes for candidates, a system described in Article II, section 1 of the Constitution.

    Each state has a number of electors equal to the number of its U.S. senators plus the number of its U.S. representatives. Currently, the Electoral College includes 538 electors, 535 for the total number of congressional members, and three who represent Washington, D.C., as allowed by the 23rd Amendment. On the Monday following the second Wednesday in December, the electors of each state meet in their respective state capitals to officially cast their votes for president and vice president. These votes are then sealed and sent to the president of the Senate, who on January 6th opens and reads the votes in the presence of both houses of Congress. The winner is sworn into office at noon on January 20th.

    Most of the time, electors cast their votes for the candidate who has received the most votes in that particular state. Some states have laws that require electors to vote for the candidate that won the popular vote, while other electors are bound by pledges to a specific political party. However, there have been times when electors have voted contrary to the people’s decision, and there is no federal law or Constitutional provision against it.

    In cases where no candidate wins a majority of electoral votes, the decision is thrown to the House of Representatives by virtue of the 12th Amendment. The House then selects the president by majority vote with each state delegation receiving one vote to cast for the three candidates who received the most electoral votes.

  50. Larry Ledwick says:

    So far this is getting interesting.
    From twitter:

    John Cardillo Verified account
    ‏@johncardillo

    Source: “Before passing out #Hillary was combative, dizzy, and disoriented. Detail and staffers knew something was up.”

    In the video that has come out she was clearly wobbling as she waited for the van to arrive but just couldn’t keep up the charade long enough to get in the van.

    Then after a short period in her daughters apartment she pranced out on the sidewalk for a wave and smile walk. I presume while they were tossing out the IV bags and drugs she was shot up with in the apartment (assumption on my part). Her appearance does not match with my experience with heat exhaustion/ heat stroke, there is obviously something going on here with her health/stamina. With the announcement I posted yesterday that she was going to retreat for 5 days this apparently was something the campaign was anticipating happening but just could not hold off long enough to get her out of sight.

  51. H.R. says:

    OK. Just for grits ‘n wiggles, what if the DNC has an exact lookalike for HRC that they could plug in if she goes to her ‘just reward’? I can see finding a lookalike, but where on earth would you get someone who screeches and cackles like her? [That conspiracy theory won’t go far ;o) ]

    Larry, I read your note this morning and asked my wife to to do a search for more reports. Before I left for grocery shopping she reported nada. When I got back,from shopping, my wife said all that was on the Bing crawler and one news channel was Hillary and Chelsea outside the apartment.

  52. Larry Ledwick says:

    Yep mainstream media is sitting on their hands scared to death to touch this, Fox has a item on their online news.

  53. E.M.Smith says:

    My estimate is that she has nothing life threatening (other than potential cancer recurrence).
    The problem is emotional instability and public seizures. Many rulers with seizures have succeded. The handlers just take over for a while.
    The problem of ongoing blood clot issues is being controlled with drugs.

    It is the side effects of seizure meds and the persistant sequelae of brain hemmorage that concern me most. Twigging out, emotional dis-control, confusion, high fatigue (long demanding things need more meds or she fades badly…) along with the sporadic euphoria / withdrawal from valium and related and many other side effects. Not what you want leading during a military crisis (that we WILL have…)

    So IMHO, the DNC and Clinton machine have built a big protective isolating machine around her and think it works fine (so far it has) and can continue to cope during her presidency. Hide, deflect, adjust drugs, PR pitch and spin, NEXT! She doesn’t need to actually rule, since she follows the party line, her staff can take orders from Soros when she is drugged up or seized….

  54. cdquarles says:

    Sort of like FDR late and JFK (If it is true that JFK had Addison’s, I can’t imagine how good his treatment could have been before standardized prednisone)?

  55. Larry Ledwick says:

    Back story starting to come out, now, the 5 day layoff of activity that was mentioned yesterday now makes sense. She was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday. Pneumonia is a killer if you don’t respect it and keep pushing in spite of it. It also causes lung scarring which will lower oxygen uptake in the future and make her more susceptible to future infections.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-has-pneumonia-doctor-says-228012

  56. H.R. says:

    Yah,but… how long has she had ‘pneumonia’ with the close medical supervision she has had for a couple of years? I would think that someone would be checking BP and heart and lungs with a stethoscope at least once a day (Doc: “OK, cough Hillary. Wait! That was a dumb thing for me to say.”)

    And what’s up with the miraculous recovery today? I want a nickel bag of whatever it was they gave her.

  57. E.M.Smith says:

    @H.R.:

    Most of us get “walking pneumonia”, she, being special, gets “bouncy sprinting pneumonia”….
    /sarc;

    Oh, and just what are the odds that with her over-the-top medical coverage that she never ever got a pneumonia vaccination? Really?….

    I’ll believe it when her chest x-rays are released and the FSB has ratified them valid…

    ( I think I know too much of the Clinton Machine History… )

  58. E.M.Smith says:

    BTW, anyone who has had pneumonia, even the ‘walking’ type, or even knows someone who has had it, can attest that you don’t just run all over feeling great, go down hard, then bounce back up again.

    It’s just draining.

    Oh, and if she has pneumonia, why fly all over the nation, cough like crazy in rooms full of thousands (many old) and spread the germs far and wide? Love ‘r audience that much, eh?

    At least put one of those filter masks on and use some disinfectant on the podium when you are done…

    (Press core on the plane: Do make sure your shots are up to date and your medical coverage paid up. Air flows from up front to the back. From Hillary to where you are…)

  59. Gail Combs says:

    “… She was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday…..”

    Remember that doctor in the video said pneumonia was common in advanced Parkinson’s disease.

    What ever she has, she is still a sick puppy.

  60. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well traffic is so high looks like this issue crashed the database of Sharyl Attkisson’s article,
    https://t.co/syI5GvDo2j

    but a cache of it appears to be working.

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LIy_axlXl8QJ:https://sharylattkisson.com/the-news-medias-miscalculation-on-hillarys-health/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

  61. Gail Combs says:

    Well well well, it looks like the ‘Tinfoil Hat’ brigade in the Alt-media dragged the MSM, kicking and screaming to the conclusion they really should report on Hillary’s health.

    Please note that Dr Drew (TV) just got fired for the crime of looking into Hillary’s health and Huffington Post reporter David Seaman was terminated for writing two articles questioning Hillary Clinton’s health.

    Seaman is retaliating by going rogue and seems to have quite a following.

    Nothing like a journalist scorned….
    …..

  62. Gail Combs says:

    The Democrats seems to keep stepping in the doggie doo-doo lately.

    I love the fact that Amazon had Deplorable T’s up for sale within 8 hours and supposedly sold out of the men’s tee-shirts by Saturday night.

    Hillary insulted Trump supporters by tossing them into two baskets, Deplorable and fearful. (The Blair-Rockefeller poll mocked the Tea Party as fearful in 2010.)

    Bill Clinton insulted out of work blue collar people calling them ‘coal people’ who voted for me but after losing their jobs, blame the government and won’t vote for Hillary. He also insulted Southerners. And to top it off Obummer called Americans lazy while talking in a foreign country.

    Looks like the mask is off and the Fabian wolf hiding behind the sheepskin is peeking out.

    Oh, and it is reported that Hillary has been using the ‘Deplorable’ speech in her fund raising for weeks. Shows the contempt the 1% has for the rest of us.

    The pundits and commenters in the alt-media are having a blast with Deplorable.

    I posted this gif over at Tony Heller’s since he should enjoy it.

  63. Larry Ledwick says:

    First off this item is almost certainly Russian disinformation so only about 80% of it is true. The question is which 80%?

    I’m inclined to think the long term alcohol abuse part it probably the true part and some other items relevant to current events. Congestive heart failure can also lead to fluid accumulation in the lungs which is very similar to the fluid build up due to pnumonia. Sounds like Putin/Russia is making an educated guess based on what they know and it certainly won’t hurt to cripple her candidacy to float this out there.

    (file this under Hmmm interesting but not very trustworthy reporting although it might provide leads for other searches on possible health situations. Anything attributed to the SVR is very very suspect!)

    http://endingthefed.com/putin-drops-a-bombshell-hillary-is-weeks-away-from-heart-failure-event.html

  64. Larry Ledwick says:

    This article came out in 2014 long before the current events and it also alludes to HRC having heart issues.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/210194-book-hillary-has-heart-problem

    Evidence from earlier this year that she also has swollen ankles which is a common secondary indication of poor circulation and possible congestive heart failure.
    http://politicsandfinance.blogspot.com/2016/06/do-hillarys-coughing-fits-suggest.html

    Apparently she also has family medical history that supports conjectures on her health.
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article101220622.html

    Third party doctors evaluation video:
    http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/08/12/hillary-clinton-has-parkinsons-disease-physician-confirms/

  65. p.g.sharrow says:

    @ Larry; I think you have hit it. First thing I thought of when I saw that earlier in the day Photo of Hillary with sun glasses, Congestive heart disease is what I see in her face. She will not survive the next 4 years. Too many years of modern medical symptomatic treatments and sedentary living. This old woman is in failing health with little time left. Driven forward on ego, with the administration of injections to function another day…pg

  66. Larry Ledwick says:

    From twitter at 22:21 pm MDT
    The Associated Press ‏@AP 35 minutes ago

    The AP has deleted a tweet of video of Hillary Clinton after the 9/11 memorial ceremony as we no longer have distribution rights.

  67. E.M.Smith says:

    Hmmmm….

    “Dehydrated and fell”, “dehydrated, fell, broke arm”, “dehydrated, fell, concussion”, “dehydrated and left early, fainting at the van”,..

    And what is the most common cause of strong dehydration? Alcohol consumption…

    So is “dehydration” being used by her doctor and staff as code for “drunk too much”?

    Sure seems to fit, and the medical staff has cover as that is a strong and correct symptom…

    Similarly, pneumonia is a symptom with many causes. Bacterial pneumonia is the infectious one, but it could be pneumonia caused by circulatory issues or fluid aspiration (common when a drunk aspirates vomit), viruses, etc. So the “put on antibiotics” could just be prophylactic treatment to prevent bacterial problems after some other cause… still truthful, but very incomplete and shaded…

  68. Larry Ledwick says:

    Two interesting items here, first link posted April 26 2016 mentions at the bottom that according to the reporters sources one of Bill’s major fears is that Hillary would will stumble or fall at a major event and reveal she was not up to the rigor of the job of Commander in Chief.

    http://townhall.com/columnists/edklein/2016/04/26/what-about-hillarys-coughing-fits-n2153911

    Second item is it just dawned on me that diuretics are often prescribed to people with congestive heart failure these can lead to dehydration and issues with low potassium which can lead to fainting spells.

    http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/medicine-diuretics#1
    http://circheartfailure.ahajournals.org/content/2/5/499.full

    There is also substantial second hand evidene out there that there is a cocaine use problem in the Clinton household.

    http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-drug-scandal-about-to-rock-hillarys-campaign/
    http://theamericanmirror.com/sally-miller-hillary-and-her-coke-habit/
    http://nypost.com/2016/06/25/clinton-white-house-was-a-den-of-cocaine-and-mistresses-ex-secret-service-officer/
    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/bill-clinton-pardoned-brother-huge-cocaine-conspiracy-jail/

    One of the symptoms associated with cocaine use is chronic cough with fever. (coughing attacks over heated???)
    http://www.addictions.com/cocaine/

    Not saying that is the situation but there is a boat load of circumstantial evidence and associations which strongly imply she might be seriously screwed up medically and a physiological time bomb.

  69. Larry Ledwick says:

    On the issue of Trump and his comments about intelligence briefings this item:
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/439907/donald-trump-intelligence-briefings?

  70. Gail Combs says:

    A reporter interviewed the Dr who thinks Hillary may have Parkinson’s Disease.

    A couple of interesting new bits.

    #1. The reporter said he had a conversation with a Secret Service type who said “do not believe the Hillary health report.”

    #2. Near the beginning, the reporter asked if others had confirmed his guess and Dr Noel sort of indicated yes but danced around it saying he was retired and no longer in contact with other Drs. Then at the end Noel says practicing doctors will not touch the subject for fear of retaliation by the federal government (Medicare/Medicaid laws, IRS…) We already have seen the targeting of True the Vote where Catherine Engelbrecht. was not only targeted by the IRS but by other federal agencies.

    “Shortly after filing IRS forms to establish 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) tax exempt organizations, an assortment of federal entities including law enforcement agencies and a Congressman from Maryland, Elijah Cummings came knocking at my door. In nearly two decades of running our small business, my husband and I never dealt with any government agency, outside of filing our annual tax returns. We had never been audited, we had never been investigated, but all that changed upon submitting applications for the non profit statuses of True the Vote and King Street Patriots. Since that filing in 2010, my private businesses, my nonprofit organizations, and family have been subjected to more than 15 instances of audit or inquiry by federal agencies.” — Catherine Engelbrecht.

    On a side note, Dr Drew did a interview where he talked about that ‘Official Hillary Health Report’ and puzzled over why they were giving her dangerous 1960s era drugs when much better drugs are available. That video got dropped into the memory hole and Dr Drew got fired.

    Another guy, David Seaman, in the under 30 crowd, got fired by Huff and Puff for questioning Hillary’s health and again got his information scrubbed.

    The interesting thing is this guy fits a lot of younger adults. Socially Liberal and Fiscally Conservative, as E.M.’s friend said Politicians need to stay out of the front and the back of my pants. Donald Trump was savvy enough to dance around the abortion hot potato and tossed it to the states. Same with Planned Parenthood. The government should butt out except for perhaps screening.

    Seaman really hates Hillary and sees Trump as someone who finally representative Americans. He doesn’t agree with him 100% but sees him as a refreshing change to the DC corruption. It is well worth listening to what he has to say for a glimpse into the thinking of the younger set.

  71. philjourdan says:

    @Gail – Re: Rassmussen – and the reason I stopped reading it many years ago.

  72. philjourdan says:

    Anyone ever see the series “Boss”? With Kelsey Grammer. It was a good series (cancelled after 2 or 3 seasons), and right now I think perhaps it was hitting a little too close to home for a former Chicagoite.

  73. p.g.sharrow says:

    @philjourdan; I agree. I also thought that “Boss” was true to form as I was once involved in city politics. Then the Obamanation came on the scene and I was looking at the same characters as some of those in the show! Too bad the program was canceled, people could see how the sausage was being made! Guess it was too close to form for Hollywood comfort or Van Jones made them an offer they couldn’t refuse…pg

  74. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well this explains the confusion about Hillary’s whereabouts while reporters were locked down following her seizure. Local authorities probably really did not know where she was for a while.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/09/12/report-hillary-clinton-ditched-nypd-escort-en-route-to-hospital-to-avoid-emergency-medical-records/

    I am guessing when she got to her daughters apartment, she got an IV (pressure infusion) To do that you squeeze the bag to get the fluid in rapidly, by kneeling on the bag, squeezing it by hand, or pressurizing the bag with a blood pressure cuff. This increases the flow rate by about 2 – 2.5 x normal gravity administration. Then they shot her up with a stimulant (possibly as part of the IV as an IV push) where a large shot of the drugs are administered directly into the IV, rather than by the typical hospital drip administration. This is a bit risky but the fastest way to get blood levels up.

    This is why I doubt she really has pneumonia, (or at least that is the primary issue) a person with walking pneumonia would not recover that fast, dehydration however can recover very quickly if solution is administered by IV. Pneumonia fills the lungs with fluid and leads to labored breathing (often treated with O2), you don’t just become a happy camper after an hours rest if you have pneumonia severe enough to cause fainting.

  75. Larry Ledwick says:

    Interesting bit on new adviser to Trump, formerly CIA directer under Clinton white house.
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/james-woolsey-advising-trump-228026

  76. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry:

    I’ve talked with some folks with walking pneumonia. Energy is way down and breathing ineffective. Pneumonia doesn’t require fluid filling, it can be a dry swelling and mucus blocking of air diffusion. In no case does one jump up and run arround chipper an hour after a collapse…

  77. Gail Combs says:

    The latest on polls.

    GEEEeeee, who would of thunk the elite would use polls to try and sway the voting publics choices? — RAH, RAH go TEAM, — errrr… Politics is a team sport isn’t it?

    …..the pollsters are shifting their methodology.   Almost every poll release in the past 72 hours has been using “Likely Voters” instead of “Registered Voters“….

    Why and HOW did all the pollsters simultaneously come to the same decision?
    Beats the heck out of me.
    Seriously.
    I can’t come up with a reasonable, intellectually honest, explanation about how a half dozen polling outfits could possibly make a specific decision, simultaneously – without going into a lengthy conversation about how the top of the feeder pool, the corporate media controllers, communicate amid themselves….
    Sundance

  78. Gail Combs says:

    E.M.
    Thanks to mold/mildew due to the dampness here in NC the last couple of years, I have had Asthma? Cough and breathing difficulties. You are NOT going to be chipper if your lungs are filled. You are also not going to willingly bend over since that will start a coughing jag.

    They are starting a rumor about body double too. (Remember it was Hillary that started the Birther movement) (wwwDOT)rense.com/general96/hillbodydoub.htm

  79. Gail Combs says:

    This commenter has an interesting theory that explains the changes in appearance. seventhndr says:

    My Sprinkles of Truth Theory

    I think their may be some partial truth to the dehydration and pneumonia part of her story. (seems like the biggest lies are always sprinkled with some truth)

    If she has Parkinson’s or other neurological disorder that is causing her to have swallowing issues (her constant coughing), then she may be caught in a bit of catch 22. If she gets plenty of water, she looks much better and less wrinkled, but she coughs up a storm. It gathers a lot of attention. So what if she refrained from drinking several [h]ours before any public or recorded speaking? And notice when she drinks at the podium, its the tiniest of sips. Just enough to wet her tongue really.

    The black outs and falling I think are still part of her underlying major neurological medical issue, whatever it may be. But I am thinking that her puffer fish like ability is her trying to manage her cough and hydration to the extremes.

    I suspect she is also given fluids intravenously and/or via a feeding tube when they can. That would be days like today where she is neither coughing or a dry wrinkly mess.

    I also believe that she had or still has pneumonia. Specifically aspiration pneumonia, which is caused when your lungs are constantly bombarded with food and liquids that should be in your stomach.

    Remember the green blobs she spit into her cup a few weeks ago? <b.Green sputum is a symptom of aspiration pneumonia.

    Remember some people pointing out that her gums were a puffy red mess? Dehydration quickly affects your oral health.

    It all makes sense when the root of everything is Parkinson’s. The concussion, which was a result of her tendency to fall, which can lead back to Parkinson’s (ok ok, and sometimes her excessive drinking🙂 ). Her coughing, her spitting up green blobs, he colleagues and “friends” commenting on her tiredness and mental state. Her strange bobbing, nodding, and bug eyes. Her fresnel lens glasses that go back to her post concussive syndrome, that goes back to her concussion, that goes back to her tendency to fall, that goes back to Parkinson’s…

    I’m not a doctor, but I’m not an idiot either. I’m certain this will eventually play out. and maybe, just maybe, we can wake up another 10% of liberals who refuse to believe their lying eyes.

    References: [long list backing up observations]

    I will add another observation. Someone here (or at Tony Heller’s) saw two red marks on the back of Hillary’s hand on a picture/vid I posted. Those could be from a fluid drip but with Hillary’s clotting issues this would be a last resort technique. The clotting issues would also make the stomach tube real dicey. even more so than a fluid drip. (There are clotters that can be used on wounds on the outside of the body. We use them when we dehorned a goat after he half ripped a horn off and was badly bleeding…)

  80. E.M.Smith says:

    @Gail:

    Some reason why you put “DOT” in your links? I’m OK with live links (just that at about 8? it triggers a wordpress spam response… while the default was 4?, I’ve upped it.)

    Yeah, I saw some of the “body double” youtubes. Not convinced (yet?). Close ups of teeth and hands would help (exact line pattern on hands and tooth profile are fairly hard to dup) along with facial lines and exact nose profile. Unfortunately, in low res video you can’t see any of that.

    So some good HD stills would be a nice A/B compare…

    Oh, and voice is often very unique. The spouse and I play a kind of game. “What was their prior role?” with actors. At movies or on TV, we’ll see someone in full makeup and full character, then it is “Were they in FOO?”… Often, especially for B/W 40 years before they were famous and as a bit part, it is only the voice that tips off who they are… Then we “hit the filmography” to check who won… So I’d be very suspicious of any rapid public display where no voice / sound was presented…

    But so far I’ve not seen anything that is a clear indication of a double. ( I got to where I could spot the Sadam doubles… one of them at least had a thinner longer face by just enough… then again, I’m married to a twin so had to get good at subtleties so I didn’t grab the wrong one ;-)

  81. Gail Combs says:

    Lionel Nation has an interesting take on the political situation. (What fun to hear a New Yorka accent again.)
    The Hillary Clinton Criminal Conspiracy and Media Lie Machine

    Lionel says he is not voting for Trump, but really hits several balls out of the park. Seems the Clinton News Network(CNN) has hit sewer level. (Snicker, could not make me more happy) He also points out his doctor friend is completely blind to Hillary’s symptoms in the 9/11 vid, says he can not form an opinion based on the videos and then proceeds to psychoanalyze Trump based on his public persona… ROTFLMAO…

  82. Gail Combs says:

    EM “…Some reason why you put “DOT” in your links? I’m OK with live links (just that at about 8? it triggers a wordpress spam response…”

    I though I only had two live links per comment. I will quit using DOT. It is a pain in the butt to change the live links. So that is a relief.
    ………………

    I do not see a good indication of a double either. Being a visual type I have zero problems IDing different twins. I went to school with several and they all looked like different people to me.

    I mentioned it because in the Lionel Nation video, he thinks it is a set-up. Sort of like Climate Den1ers are flat earthers and don’t believe in the moon landings.

    Since the ‘Deplorables’ fell flat on its face, this is another attempt to discredit Trump voters as lo-info (we are actually hi-info) redneck hick Archie Bunker types, that no one in their right mind wants to associate with.

    I can not find the poll I was looking for buried under all the MSM stories of Trump loses educated voters (no surprise there) But here are a couple of othe older polls

    Exit polling data also dispelled the notion that the candidate’s supporters are largely uneducated….
    The narrative that Trump’s voting base is largely uneducated has been consistent since the beginning of the candidate’s campaign…
    http://www.attn.com/stories/6291/trump-super-tuesday-voters-are-educated

    Sundance had a late May poll showing men with college education supporting trump 2 to 1 while the reverse is true for college educated women who support Hillary 2 to 1.

    The big problem for the democrats IS the Archie Bunker types Hillary just insulted. The Monster Vote. The extra 10 million voters that Trump and his supporters are motivating to vote.

    From this interesting poll analysis:
    New York Times Continues Trying to Quantify The Looming 2016 Election Possibility of The Monster Vote…

    There are two important ratios to remember 65/35 and 55/45.

    Throughout the past year those who have followed political opinion will note the consistent and reoccurring appearance of these two sets of statistical ratios.

    ♦ First, a variant of the ratio “65/35 ” [Trump/Hillary] shows up in random series of obscure polling questions done by alternative or social media. Three examples include two Bravo Network broadcasts asking for voter input, and another from data tech “Zip App“….

    ♦ The second ratio “55/45” – is a consistent ratio which shows up on within media comparative opinions which are more traditionally driven. Viewership of the Convention speeches (32.2M Trump -vs- 27.8M Clinton), is one 55/45 example. Non-adjusted battleground polling (raw data not modified) is another example of 55/45 showing up….

  83. Larry Ledwick says:

    Assuming this is visible to everyone, this might explain one of the ways the polls are getting it wrong.
    Millennials are assumed to be strongly leaning to the left, but there is a substantial fraction of that population cohort that is conservative, and with the current selection of candidates, Gary Johnson and Jill Stein will steal votes almost exclusively from HRC.

    HRC . . . . . . . . . . 31%
    Gary Johnson . . . 29%
    DJT . . . . . . . . . . 26%
    Jill Stein . . . . . . . 4%

  84. Gail Combs says:

    I think you are correct Larry.
    Actually Johnson is a liberal cloaked in a libertarian robe while Stein is a straight-up Socialist. (The Democrats often run a libertarian to steal votes from the republican) Given the hatred of Hillary by the Bernie kids they are going to go to Stein or Johnson or maybe Trump.

    Johnson was run by the ‘Conservative’ Never-Trumpers as a means to suck votes from Trump. However to the true conservative church going middle class he is a Pot head. To the Union workers, Blacks and Millennials who are hurt the most by the poor job market, he is fine with job killing NAFTA, WTO and TPP and anti-tarriff which means he has no real way of getting jobs back except for Zero corporate tax. Since Millennials lean socialist and see Corporate Cronyism as their enemy that goes over like a lead balloon.

    Originally the plan was to manipulate polls and give Johnson the 15% needed to get into the debates. This would allow Hillary to be the brave woman surrounded by men. However what the pollsters have found is HILLARY is the one bleeding voters to Johnson so the last think the DNC wants is Johnson (or Stein) given anymore coverage. Trump doesn’t care and actually has said he thinks both should be given a place in the debates.

    Of course this is where things get really interesting. Hillary HAS TO do the debate sitting down. This means Trump, the master negotiator, can now write the ticket and demand fair moderators (Maybe questions in a bucket) and if he wants the other two on the stage.

    MORE POPCORN!

  85. E.M.Smith says:

    @Gail:

    WordPress has some default limit, it might be 2 or 4, but isn’t much. Each site can override that (if they dig long enough…) and I upped it to something like 8… but other sites might (will…) be lower.

    FWIW, I have this nagging suspicion… not yet a fully formed thought… that maybe, somehow, Trump is onto a good media gimmick where he’s got the Lie Machine Time Constant down. So each day, they get a bit of bait and “roll out the insult destroy SJW Talking Points”… but by the time they hit the news cycle, he’s launched another Grenade… so the SJW / Organizer / MSM is busy ranting on one point, and he’s shifted the news cycle to a different one. They either are behind the cycle, or step on their own talking points…

    “That Racist Birther thing is soooo yesterday… don’t you know today it’s the 2nd amendment and gooses / ganders? ;-) ”

    I’m beginning to think I’ve seen this show before. Among some very very smart cookies out in Farm Country / Construction… who would lob a shot at you, then laugh as they shifted to the next one… Usually in the “good old boys” sparing in fun context, but if someone got serious, it could too… I suspect those raised with silver spoons and Ivy League have never had that daily barrage of jousting… it keeps the work non-boring and the talk lively… “That a toupee on your head or did the cat die?… And I hear your known for your PB&J sandwiches, so you must be the cook… And on Saturdays, …”

  86. Pingback: A Small Muse On Polls | gwfenimore

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