The Peculiar Japanese Roots of Euro-Pan-Nationalism

In some ways I’m just parroting the Wiki on this, then commenting on it.

Hopefully I’ll find other interesting bits to make it more than that…

The interesting thing about Richard Von Coudenhove-Kalergi isn’t just his very long hyphenated name, it is how he influenced Euro-Thinking and his Japanese roots.

Richard Nikolaus Eijiro, Count of Coudenhove-Kalergi (November 16, 1894 – July 27, 1972) was an Austrian-Japanese politician, philosopher and count of Coudenhove-Kalergi. The pioneer of European integration, he served as the founding president of the Paneuropean Union for 49 years which would be the preliminary ideological foundation of the European Union. His parents were Heinrich von Coudenhove-Kalergi, an Austro-Hungarian diplomat, and Mitsuko Aoyama, the daughter of an oil merchant, antiques-dealer, and major landowner in Tokyo. His childhood name in Japan was Aoyama Eijiro. He became a Czechoslovak citizen in 1919 and then took French nationality from 1939 until his death.

I wonder how many folks in the EU know that the founding light of the EU and major advocate for Pan-Europe was a person who grew up in Japan and then became a Czech citizen?

Is it any wonder that someone with a personal genetic history spanning two continents (well, a continent and the last island in Asia you can reach before being on a ship to Hawaii…) and with early childhood years spent speaking Japanese might have a dislike of Nationalism and a desire to have everyone else mixed up too?

His first book, Pan-Europa, was published in 1923, and contained a membership form for the Pan-Europa movement which held its first Congress in Vienna in 1926. In 1927, Aristide Briand was elected honorary president of the Pan-Europa movement. Public figures who attended Pan-Europa congresses included Albert Einstein, Thomas Mann and Sigmund Freud.

So endorsed and the non-National movement embraced by two European Jews (who must also have felt a bit non-National about things) and a guy from the quasi-nobility class of Germany:

Paul Thomas Mann was born to a bourgeois family in Lübeck, the second son of Thomas Johann Heinrich Mann (a senator and a grain merchant) and his wife Júlia da Silva Bruhns (a Brazilian of German and Portuguese ancestry who emigrated to Germany when seven years old). His mother was Roman Catholic but Mann was baptised into his father’s Lutheran religion. Mann’s father died in 1891 and his trading firm was liquidated. The family subsequently moved to Munich.

Who was also born to a mother from outside of Europe and of mixed ancestry. An interesting backdrop to the rise of Italian Fascist Nationalism and German Nationalism under Hitler, that I’d not seen mentioned before.

So we have this “let’s all just get rid of the Nation and distinct peoples” movement rising and gaining strength just prior to the Nationalism kicking off. I’d say that matters.

In the present, we have a rebirth of the “Let’s all just get rid of the Nation and distinct peoples” movement again in power, and, surprise surprise, there is a growing Nationalist Sentiment across Europe (and the USA to some extent). Is is “rinse and repeat” time?…

In fairness, I can relate to the “out of place” feeling of Nisei. (Children born to immigrants). I am 1/2 one on my Mum’s side. She from England, Dad from Iowa. One does grow up feeling “out of place”. Until you go back to the “home country” and find you fit in there even worse…

But I’d not have 2 Nisei and a few cultural outsiders deciding how to form and run my country… Just saying’… America is NOT here to make ME feel more comfortable…

Coudenhove-Kalergi was the first recipient of the Charlemagne Prize in 1950. The 1972–1973 academic year at the College of Europe was named in his honour. Coudenhove-Kalergi proposed Beethoven’s “Ode to Joy” as the music for the European Anthem. He also proposed a Europe Day, European postage stamp and many artefacts for the movement (e.g. badges and pennants).
Coudenhove-Kalergi was the second son of Heinrich Coudenhove-Kalergi (1859–1906), an Austro-Hungarian count and diplomat of mixed European origin, and Mitsuko Aoyama (1874–1941). His father, who spoke sixteen languages and embraced travel as the only means of prolonging life, yet died in his forties, had prematurely abandoned a career in the Austrian diplomatic service that took him to Athens, Constantinople, Rio de Janeiro, and Tokyo, to devote himself to study and writing.

So “Dad” was a bit daft on some things. A common affliction among the very intelligent. A tendency to get wrapped up in things fanciful and lose that rooting to reality that is so important. A tendency to “believe your own bullshit”. The smarter you are, the more you must guard against it. (Every so often it helps to take a shovel to a few meters of dirt and try to make your own food from it…clarity about work and the intricacies of farming arrives quickly.)

Coudenhove-Kalergi’s parents met when his mother helped the Austro-Hungarian diplomat after he fell off a horse while riding in Japan. In commenting on their union, Whittaker Chambers described the future originator of Pan-Europe as “practically a Pan-European organization himself.” He elaborated: “The Coudenhoves were a wealthy Flemish family that fled to Austria during the French Revolution. The Kalergis were a wealthy Greek family from Crete. The line has been further crossed with Poles, Norwegians, Balts, French and Germans, but since the families were selective as well as cosmopolitan, the hybridization has been consistently successful.” The Kalergis family roots trace to Byzantine royalty via Venetian aristocracy, connecting with the Phokas imperial dynasty. In 1300, Coudenhove-Kalergi’s ancestor Alexios Phokas-Kalergis signed the treaty that made Crete a dominion of Venice.

During his childhood, Coudenhove-Kalergi’s mother had read aloud to him Momotarō and other Japanese fairy tales.

This “just mix everyone together” is a very aristocratic notion… Popular with Dictators, Emperors, and Dominators for centuries. From the Roman Empire to the Holy Roman Empire to the Austro-Hungarian Empire to the British Empire to the Napoleons of the world, both large and small (and ‘wannabe’). To the peasants not so much…

Aristocratic in his origins and elitist in his ideas, Coudenhove-Kalergi identified and collaborated with such politicians as Engelbert Dollfuss, Kurt Schuschnigg, Otto von Habsburg, Winston Churchill, and Charles de Gaulle. His ideal political constituent was a gentleman who must respect and protect ladies, a person adhering to honesty, fair play, courtesy, and rational discourse. He strove to replace the nationalist German ideal of racial community with the goal of an ethnically heterogeneous and inclusive European nation based on a commonality of culture, a nation whose geniuses were the “great Europeans” such as abbé de Saint-Pierre, Kant, Napoleon, Giuseppe Mazzini, Victor Hugo, and Friedrich Nietzsche.

I know, let’s just homogenize everyone and everything, this time for sure! /sarc;

Coudenhove-Kalergi is recognized as the founder of the first popular movement for a united Europe. His intellectual influences ranged from Rudolf Kjellén and Oswald Spengler to Arthur Schopenhauer and Friedrich Nietzsche. In politics, he was an enthusiastic supporter of “fourteen points” made by Woodrow Wilson on 8 January 1918 and pacifist initiatives of Kurt Hiller.

In December 1921, he joined the Masonic lodge “Humanitas” in Vienna. In 1922, he co-founded the Pan-European Union (PEU) with Archduke Otto von Habsburg, as “the only way of guarding against an eventual world hegemony by Russia.”

Gee…. Habsburgs and that old Russian Boogyman even back then…

In 1923, he published a manifesto entitled Pan-Europa, each copy containing a membership form which invited the reader to become a member of the Pan-Europa movement. He favored social democracy as an improvement on “the feudal aristocracy of the sword” but his ambition was to create a conservative society that superseded democracy with “the social aristocracy of the spirit.” European freemason lodges supported his movement, including the lodge Humanitas. […]
According to his autobiography, at the beginning of 1924 his friend Baron Louis de Rothschild introduced him to Max Warburg who offered to finance his movement for the next 3 years by giving him 60,000 gold marks. Warburg remained sincerely interested in the movement for the remainder of his life and served as an intermediate for Coudenhove-Kalergi with influential Americans such as banker Paul Warburg and financier Bernard Baruch.

Well, and part of the Rothschild and Warburg spiderweb too…

Interesting to note that he hung around until 1972. Would be interesting to correlate that date with EU centric things.

In April 1924, Coudenhove-Kalergi founded the journal Paneuropa (1924–1938) of which he was editor and principal author. The next year he started publishing his main work, the Kampf um Paneuropa (The fight for Paneuropa, 1925–1928, three volumes). In 1926, the first Congress of the Pan-European Union was held in Vienna and the 2,000 delegates elected Coudenhove-Kalergi as president of the Central Council, a position he held until his death in 1972.

So in ’72 the Vietnam War was winding down, the USA and Russia were still in a Cold War, and the Euro-zone was still about 27 years away. But one wonders where the root of it was, then. Next we get a very “1984” like view of Eastasia vs Oceana and PanEurope…

His original vision was for a world divided into only five states: a United States of Europe that would link continental countries with French and Italian possessions in Africa; a Pan-American Union encompassing North and South Americas; the British Commonwealth circling the globe; the USSR spanning Eurasia; and a Pan-Asian Union whereby Japan and China would control most of the Pacific. To him, the only hope for a Europe devastated by war was to federate along lines that the Hungarian-born Romanian Aurel Popovici and others had proposed for the dissolved multinational Empire of Austria-Hungary. According to Coudenhove-Kalergi, Pan-Europe would encompass and extend a more flexible and more competitive Austria-Hungary, with English serving as the world language, spoken by everyone in addition to their native tongue. He believed that individualism and socialism would learn to cooperate instead of compete, and urged that capitalism and communism cross-fertilise each other just as the Protestant Reformation had spurred the Catholic Church to regenerate itself.

So a “3rd Way” Socialism as ‘capitalism lite’ gets blended in with State Socialism… but before that Socialist Mussolini created the phrase “3rd Way” and used it to christen his Fascist flavor of Socialism (he coined that word based on “the ‘bundle of sticks’ being stronger” metaphor of the Labor Unions and was big on workers unions managing the means of production, like all good Socialists.)

So that’s the root of the modern “regional federations” and free trade treaties and even the “3rd Way” market Socialism. Too bad that whole ‘world peace’ thing didn’t work out and sorry to see the EU breaking its teeth on the attempt to blend in Islamic Religious Iron…

But it is nice to know that this was designed by the old aristocracy out of a desire to make a New Improved Austro-Hungarian Empire, but this time spanning all of Europe, the colonial areas, and more… Gotta have an effective empire if you want to be an Aristocrat, after all…

Am I being “over the top” with imagination to think Hitler was pushed somewhat to action as a reaction against this desired assassination of The Nation writ continental scale?

However, his Pan-Europeanism earned vivid loathing from Adolf Hitler, who excoriated its pacifism and mechanical economism and belittled its founder as “a bastard.” Hitler’s view of Coudenhove-Kalergi was that the “rootless, cosmopolitan, and elitist half-breed” was going to repeat the historical mistakes of Coudenhove ancestors who had served the House of Habsburg. In 1928, Hitler wrote about his political opponent in his Zweites Buch, describing as “Aller welts bastarden Coudenhove”,
Hitler did not share the ideas of his Austrian compatriot. He argued in his 1928 Secret Book that they are unfit for the future defense of Europe against America. As America fills its North American lebensraum, “the natural activist urge that is peculiar to young nations will turn outward.” But then “a pacifist-democratic Pan-European hodgepodge state” would not be able to oppose the United States, as it is “according to the conception of that everybody’s bastard, Coudenhove-Kalergi…”

Interesting that Hitler was worried about America and a ‘turn outward’, kind of like he thought we might have bases scattered around the globe and a military bigger than all of Europe combined. Oh wait….

After the annexation of Austria by the Third Reich in 1938, Coudenhove-Kalergi fled to Czechoslovakia, and thence to France. As France fell to Germany in 1940, he escaped to the United States by way of Switzerland and Portugal. When he passed a few days after the successful escape to the United States, he listened to the radio saying the possibility of his death. During the war, he continued his call for the unification of Europe along the Paris-London axis. His wartime politics and peripeties served as the real life basis for fictional Resistance hero Victor Laszlo, the Paul Henreid character in Casablanca.

Now that’s an odd twist I’d not known before. Brings a new perspective to Casablanca too.

So is it “over the top” when I talk about the EU being a Holy Roman Empire wannabe or redeux?

The end of the war inaugurated a revival of pan-European hopes. In the winter of 1945, Harry S. Truman read an article on December issue of Collier’s magazine that Coudenhove-Kalergi posted about the integration of Europe. His article impressed Truman, and it was adopted to the United States’ official policy. Winston Churchill’s celebrated speech of 19 September 1946 to the Academic Youth in Zurich commended “the exertions of the Pan-European Union which owes so much to Count Coudenhove-Kalergi and which commanded the services of the famous French patriot and statesman Aristide Briand.” In November 1946 and the spring of 1947, Coudenhove-Kalergi circulated an enquiry addressed to members of European parliaments. This enquiry resulted in the founding of the European Parliamentary Union (EPU), a nominally private organization that held its preliminary conference on 4–5 July at Gstaad, Switzerland, and followed it with its first full conference from 8 to 12 September. Speaking at the first EPU conference, Coudenhove-Kalergi argued that the constitution of a wide market with a stable currency was the vehicle for Europe to reconstruct its potential and take the place it deserves within the concert of Nations. On less guarded occasions he was heard to advocate a revival of Charlemagne’s empire. In 1950 he received the first annual Karlspreis (Charlemagne Award), given by the German city of Aachen to people who contributed to the European idea and European peace. I

It would seem not. At least, in the eyes of the founding light of its vision…

He recommended negotiations between the European Community and the European Free Trade Association towards forming a “European customs union” that would be free of political and military connections, but would eventually adopt a monetary union.

And what does he think of the Totalitarian State suppressing the little people voters? Well, here are his own words on that:

We are experiencing the most dangerous revolution in world history: the revolution of the State against man. We are experiencing the worst idolatry of all time: the deification of the state.

— Richard N. Coudenhove-Kalergi, Totaler Staat – Totaler Mensch (Total State – Total Man)

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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64 Responses to The Peculiar Japanese Roots of Euro-Pan-Nationalism

  1. philjourdan says:

    Makes you wonder if some famous folks are not half made in any event. How else does he see a “PAN” anything coming into being without it being an all powerful state? He saw the USSR – and he wanted 5 of them?

    Guess we will have to leave him as an enigma.

  2. H.R. says:

    That E.U. thingy is starting to crumble and I do believe it’s due to the tyranny of a (extremely) bloated,un-elected bureaucracy.

    There is something in humankind that resists being just another drone in the hive. I don’t think that Coudenhove-Kalergi took the natural aversion of worker bees to out-of-control bureaucracies into account.

    Great post, E.M.

  3. Zeke says:

    So is it “over the top” when I talk about the EU being a Holy Roman Empire wannabe or redeux?

    No. No, not at all. The meaning of reich is empire, and is based on the idea of the Roman Empire. The question the intellectual elites of the European Enlightenment were asking was which European nation would be the successors of the Roman Empire. The English colonized the world but had enough parliamentary restraint so that, in the end, it voluntarily recognized its colonies as equal partners in the Commonwealth of Nations. The Germans were certain it was their right and destiny to supplant the English, both geographically and industrially, and to rule — as anyone who is moderately familiar with Nietzschean philosophy will have noticed.

    So the second reich was the German attempt which began under Bismark to take over all of Europe, after unifying the dozens of duchies and countries into one German nation. He was able to create a much larger army through unification (the same unnatural unification process happened in Italy with the same bloody results).

    The second reich was also characterized by German scholars who were busy amassing evidence for their Aryan theories of race. Much of what most people know about language groups and archaeology are based on the scholarship of German supremacists, who were looking for swastikas and Aryan invasions in ancient history. It is my view that calling the European languages “Germanic” is also a vestige of German philology which preceded the attempt by Germany to take over Europe.

    The third reich was also obviously a German attempt to dominate all of Europe. The post-war Na–s mostly disappeared into the Universities of America and Europe and Australia and profoundly influenced the children of the Greatest Generation through education. This is part of the Aryan doctrine — the survival of the fittest race –which transforms itself and disguises itself even after a military defeat, to come into power once more.

    There you have WWI and WWII. Thankfully, parents and grand parents who were on watch at the time resisted it and stopped it. And the fourth reich is the EU and is led by Germany.

    But Chief brings up the Holy Roman Empire and that is indeed nothing more than the direct continuation of the Roman Empire from Rome.

  4. Zeke says:

    This is from an interview with Vaklav Klaus and is meant to illustrate what I mean by the European Union being the instrument of German policies:

    What stood behind Germany’s “Refugees Welcome” policy in 2015? To what extent was it driven by values and by the desire to change the country’s population dynamics in order to have more young and skilled workforce? Has the policy paid for itself?

    Behind Germany´s (and the whole Western Europe´s) policies stand the irrational ideologies of multiculturalism, of europeism, of humanrightism supplemented by plans to create a new European society and a new European man. The European political elites consider the migrants a perfect instrument for it, for liquidating the European society as we know it.

    Demographic problems or labour-force problems are irrelevant in this respect.

  5. Gail Combs says:

    Paul Warburg’s son if I recall correctly was adamant we would have a world government

    AHHHhhh, Here is the reference

  6. Zeke says:

    From Gail’s link:

    “These studies led me, 10 years ago, to the conclusion that the great question of our time is not whether or not one world can be achieved, but whether or not one world can be achieved by peaceful means.

    We shall have world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest. Today we are faced with a divided world—its two halves glowering at each other across the iron curtain. The world’s two superpowers—Russia and the United States—are entangled in the vicious circle of an arms race, which more and more preempts energies and resources sorely needed to lay the foundations of enduring peace.”


    “James Paul Warburg was a German-born American banker. He was well known for being the financial adviser to Franklin D. Roosevelt. His father was banker Paul Warburg, member of the Warburg family and “father” of the Federal Reserve system.”

    That will be adequate. Gail Combs has a banker and I have a German to fixate on! (:

  7. Alexander K says:

    Very rich vein here, EM.
    As a New Zealander in my eighth decade and of Anglo/Scots origin, I grew up thinking that all of my schoolmates had similar family backgrounds to me. Not so! New Zealanders can trace their origins back to almost everywhere in the world and the old empires of Europe had an enormous influence on early migration to NZ. In the 19th century many small settlements here were founded by groups from the ‘old country’ as they called it, but that ‘old country’ was as likely to be Pomerania, Austria, Bohemia, any of the Low countries, Scandanavian countries, Balkan states or Lebanon. A group from China were prominent on the Goldfields of the South Island during the 19th century and one of their number is credited with building the country’s first diary factory.
    The first settlers, the Maori, are now cheerfully claimed by Japanese academics to have begun their great voyages of discovery from Japan.
    Significant numbers of my 17th century relatives moved from Yorkshire to Canada and the USA to escape religious and/or political repression, so the empires of the world have swirled around and mixed more than a little.

  8. Gail Combs says:

    Actually Zeke,
    It is the unholy alliance of the Royals/Aristocracy and the bankers I hate. Conquest is expensive and the Peasants ‘Revolting’ if taxed too much.

    Once you switch from silver/gold/copper to bank script/fractional reserve banking practices you can increase the money supply much more than the economy increases. This is in actuality a stealth tax most people can not figure out.

    Tell me how many people actually know how much tax they pay? Is it 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, 35%, 39.6% ??? Or is it more likely 80 to 90%.

    Even those who pay NO income tax, STILL pay, 5.4% to 9.45% sales tax plus the ‘over 50% tax on a loaf of bread’* or some where between 40% to over 60% of their in pocket money. That does not include interest on the printed out of thin air script** ‘loaned’ to them via credit cards, housing, student and car loans.



  9. Zeke says:

    “There’s a hundred taxes in an egg by the time it gets to market and you know the chicken didn’t put them there!”

  10. Jeff says:

    I think I mentioned this fellow and his evil goals on another thread. In any case, “Mutti”, Angela Merkel, won an award for her “service” to Kalergi’s cause (somehow I always think of “The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari” when I hear of Coudenhove-Kalergi – both Horrors, in the extreme).

    They wish to produce a brown/grey race, combining African and other races with the Europeans, in hope of creating a subservient race for the oligarch masters. Serf’s up, as it were…

    This has been in the shadows of the Euro-media for some time now. Merkel, et. al. wish to bury it.
    Perhaps it will finally (with the AfD, Le Pen, Wilders, and the others) bury them (politically).

  11. Jeff says:

    @ Gail, here in Europe we get the “joy” of Value-Added-Tax. No value added, just tax. And the EU (actually the European Comission, as they, as unelected oligarchs, are the ones calling the shots) constantly review, and “nudge” those countries who are not “taxing fairly”. Some of the northern lands have VAT percentages of 25%. Germany is 19% for non-foods, 7% for foods which aren’t “processed” (by some REALLY odd interpretation of the term). In 1990 or so, the percentages were 14% and 5%, respectively, with some items (don’t remember which) untaxed, which is no longer the case…

    I used to wonder where the money came from for the EUcrats to get €100,000 per year, tax free, with an equal (usually) amount of per diem, also tax free. Seems it comes from the wallets of those of us who actually PAY taxes. Fancy that. Swamps to be drained in Brussels and Strasbourg too…

  12. Reisen says:

    I thought I’d see something different. Are you aware that the idea of a unified Europe predates Kalergi? Citing Wikipedia and taking the stance that the European displacement is due to Kalergi’s ‘plan’ is the rage among 14/88ers because Kalergi was half-Jewish.

    But you are right about Japanese ideas of European unity. Kikuchi Yoshio proposed it, as well.

    “In 1693, William Penn looked at the devastation of war in Europe and wrote of a “European dyet, or parliament”, to prevent further war, without further defining how such an institution would fit into the political reality of Europe at the time.[3]

    In 1728, Abbot Charles de Saint-Pierre proposed the creation of a European league of 18 sovereign states, with common treasury, no borders and an economic union. After the American War of Independence the vision of a United States of Europe, similar to the United States of America, was shared by a few prominent Europeans, notably the Marquis de Lafayette and Tadeusz Kościuszko.

    Some suggestion of a European union can be inferred from Immanuel Kant’s 1795 proposal for an “eternal peace congress”.”

    The only reason I make this comment is because nearly all the Alt-Righers I know use Kalergi as the ‘founding basis’ for the EU and its principles as a means of piecing together an elaborate Jewish plot. For example, you state:

    “So endorsed and the non-National movement embraced by two European Jews (who must also have felt a bit non-National about things)…”

    As we can see from the Wikipedia article which I linked, the idea of an EU is fundamentally an Austrian/Germanic institution. Germany has always wanted to be the centre of power of Europe, be it under supra-nationalism under Hitler – including his lebensraum policy – with everything entailed being Germanic, including law. The English and French are similar in this regard. What these two Jews were doing were taking European gentile ideas and contributing to it. It’s not entirely their creation. The German National Socialists also wanted a European Union.

    Also look at the curious note of Brussels ALWAYS being at the centre. The Belgians are a small group of people, but big share holders.

    But TBH, Chiefio, this was a bit sloppy on your part.

  13. Power Grab says:

    @ Jeff: Yes, I knew a fellow who talked frequently about the “dusky race” that the NWO-type folks wanted to create.

    I always thought that was unsustainable. I mean, if you don’t intend for people to live outside the most temperate zones, maybe… But I figure light-skinned people are going to find it easier to survive in higher latitudes, while darker-skinned people are going to find locations closer to the equator more amenable.

    i’m thinking of things like vitamin D levels and dietary constraints in the various parts of the world. I know I sort of harp on these things, but really! The whole idea of “one size fits all” being a thing that can continue worldwide without extraordinary inputs. For example, Aren’t the countries/peoples who live closest to the equator the ones that generally are less prosperous? I don’t say it’s due to less potential, but due to the fact that they don’t have to create the kind of infrastructure that’s needed to survive in places that freeze over at least part of the year. You can even consider the northern and southern parts of the US and see differences like these.

    Think about things like cow barns. You need *heated* cow barns in Canada and Minnesota and the Dakotas, etc. But look at south Texas or Mexico: maybe you might have to put in some type of shade and ponds. If you wanted to build a business selling stuff for people to keep their cattle alive, I’m guessing you’d make more money selling the heated barns up north than you would selling cattle tanks in the south. And you certainly need a more robust electricity infrastructure up north…am I right? It costs money to put that stuff in and run it. So your dollars will circulate more up north. That doesn’t mean a person couldn’t have a reasonable life in a climate that didn’t require all that investment.

    To assume that people who live in sunnier climes are less motivated or intelligent doesn’t seem like a given to me. “Everyone is ignorant, just on different subjects.” If they picked up a bunch of city-dwellers and expected them to survive and thrive on the savanna…well, guess again.

    People used to migrate because the weather changed. I guess “snow birds” still do…people who have their main home up north, but spend the winters in Florida. Right, EM? Do they still do that?

    But this European mission to drive migrants from the Middle East to the north…that just looks like nothing but a source of severe strife. Oh, and what about the sun’s getting quieter (fewer sunspots) and the northern hemisphere is getting amazing amounts of snow in recent winters. That’s not the way migration is supposed to work.

    I keep wondering if the PTB actually *want* to end up with lots of fatherless hybrid kiddies running around. It sure seems like that’s one of their big emphases. They are sure to become fully dependent on the government, right?

  14. beththeserf says:

    One size fits all and unelected guvuhmint from above, or afar,
    oh those philosopher kings and what the EU has wrought and
    would rort.

  15. Gail Combs says:


    Authority to Tax — ✔
    Authority to Regulate —- ✔
    Creation of standard currency —- ✔

    To quote Juncker again:

    We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens … If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don’t understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.


    BBC: European Union army proposal from Jean-Claude Juncker

    13 March 2015 –“European Union army proposal from Jean-Claude Juncker. The European Commission president wants EU states to pool their military resources and send a message to Vladimir Putin. Jean Claude Juncker likes the idea of a European Army, and his plans have been aired in a German newspaper.”

    UK Express: EU Army set to be agreed TODAY – and BRITAIN will foot the £420m-a-year bill

    Nov 22, 2016 – “THE EU will today ratify the creation of a continent wide super army that will be up and running next year – and blame BREXIT for its creation.”

    And there you have the entirety of a Government.

  16. E.M.Smith says:

    @Power Grab:

    There are many adaptations to local needs in culture and in physiology. Blacks have 10% more dense bones and much lower body fat levels with long legs. Ideal for a warm climate with little seasonal variation and crocodiles (and other lethal ‘wee-beasties’) in the water and where running matters a lot, swimming not so much. Whiles tend to higher body fat, short legs, and lower density (lighter bones, bigger lungs). Ideal for a cold climate with high seasonality in food availability and water you must swim in (or at least float in to get back to shore when your boat swamps) while “running in snow” doesn’t work but long legs break easier…

    On skin color, a couple of things push the trend. Skin cancer due to UV and rickets due to low Vit-D. Yet being mostly ‘indoors’ now reduces the UV pressure and synthetic vitamins reduce the rickets pressure. Yet still, blacks have far higher levels of rickets and S.A.D. in far north climates than whites and whites still have more skin cancer than blacks. in upper division genetics we learned how to calculate from genetic pressure rates how long it takes to get a full genetic response. This stuff isn’t an opinion, it’s math. The simple fact is whites are white to make more vitamin D and blacks are black to avoid skin cancer. Latitude WILL determine color over time. BUT that time is about 25,000 years for a complete response (or about 10,000 for a significant response). so beyond most folks ability to notice or care

    On “intelligence”: It is more strongly driven by proper nutrition leading to good brain development, and a decent education (NOT our present political indoctrination schools, BTW) than by genetics. Yet still, genetics do matter. Oddly, one of the more interesting bits is that the Neanderthals had a larger brain case, so more room for brains. Whites have more Neanderthal genes, and more of that brain case size / shape. That specific gene has now migrated out to other races and is slowly spreading around the globe. (Realize individual genes move around. They don’t care about the rest of the genetic package much… so once one Neanderthal White crossed into an African black pool some 15,000+ years ago, that gene was free to migrate through the rest of sub-sahara Africa). IIRC, it is now at about 30% of all humanity with that gene, so clearly it adds something of value (and enough to counter the harder birth of babies with bigger heads).

    And that is part of why I say racial grouping is a bit silly. Genes move. Globally. So: If, say, 20% of Blacks in Africa have a Neanderthal style brain case and good nutrition, ought we put barriers in front of their achievements due to a good adaptation to tropical sun? If, say, 20% of whites in Northern Europe have a Cro-Magnon brain case and poor nutrition ought we give them favor for being well adapted to produce Vit.D in low sunshine levels? Will moving them to different latitudes change their genetics or their adaptations?

    Per Snowbirds:

    Yup, still happens. More by air now and less by driving, but in Florida the “high season” for RV parks is winter and rates go up a lot. (Oddly, for hotels, “high season” is summer and rates are lower in winter). I was there on contract for many years, so learned where to minimize my housing costs playing off the divergent seasonality. In winter there is a significantly higher population of English, Canadians, and New Englanders… In summer more folks from Latin America and Australia…

    Migration has many benefits for many species. As the next Ice Age Glacial hits (be it next year or 2000 years from now) will see massive migration from North to South.

  17. Graeme No.3 says:

    Neanderthal & Denisovan genes appear fairly wide spread in modern humans, but I thought that neanderthal genes were absent in Africa, possibly because they are linked with pale skin which is of no survival value there.
    Has some information that may interest readers, but the specific neanderthal gene for red hair isn’t the same as the one in modern european stock.

  18. M Simon says:

    Here is another organization that promoted World Government that formed in the aftermath of WW2.

    I met its founder (Gary Davis) back around ’76 or so. I bought one of his passports. I’m no longer so enamored of the idea.

  19. M Simon says:


    One of the adaptations is political. If we forget that we get into the current political situation where the other party is characterized as evil. And it is true – the other party – when it tries to impose its culture on places where it is not suitable – is evil.

    So we do in fact have two evil parties.

    And the evil starts with “We can fix them by force. First we will pass laws. And if people won’t obey we will call up the enforcers.”.

  20. M Simon says:

    Graeme No.3 says:
    4 February 2017 at 6:27 pm

    The picture that goes with the article you linked would indicate that plastic is now part of the human DNA. LOL.

  21. M Simon says:

    Jeff says:
    4 February 2017 at 4:45 am

    Serf’s up, as it were


  22. Gail Combs says:

    M Simon,

    A friend has epilepsy. Without drugs he has ~5 seizures a day. Unfortunately prescription drugs play merry havoc with his blood sugar levels. (He is hypoglycimic) Solution – link

  23. E.M.Smith says:


    There are lots of logic faults in how folks think about DNA and genes. Most of them cycle around the randomness actions in it.

    So yes, there are FEW neanderthal genes in the South of Sahara, however….

    More of them showed up with colonizing (and the inevitable inability of folks to keep it zipped…).

    North Africa has a lot of them, due to the influx of Redhead / Blond / Caucasian types from Central Asia about 10,000 years ago.

    Now those genes are free to spread throughout the total population exchanging genes, that in the modern era is everyone on the globe with about 6 degrees of separation… (or one big party per continent…)

    So it’s a question of percentages. Largest percentages likely in places like France and the UK where the Neanderthals hung on longest. least in the most remote parts of Africa without significant colonists surviving long enough to ‘share’ with the natives.

    Then nature starts to select for which genes to keep and which to toss. The Neanderthal skull gene in question is only one out of the whole skull complex, so not like the carriers of it look odd, just a large head. Which causes more difficulty in childbirth as males (presently) prefer gracile (skinny) women, while the Neanderthal women were more, um, “Rubenesque”… Eventually either better appreciation for chunky will develop, more elastic bodies, or smaller heads as these competing pressures sort things out… (Which also likely explains the reputation of many White women having difficult childbirth while Blacks and Asians had it easier… at least until the skull gene gets around…)

    Red Hair:

    Populations that have been around a Very Long Time have many variations on any given gene. Basically it slowly mutates into many forms. Neanderthals were around a very long time. I’d expect them to have a dozen+ types of Red-Head-Gene. Now we sequenced exactly one sample from some of the youngest Neanderthal bones we could find. Where did the other 11 go? Lost to time? Or did one of THEM cross over into the present Europeans and yet not be preserved in a gene sample from 30,000 years ago in rotted bones?

    Thus the “our red head gene is different from the ONE sample therefore we didn’t get it from Neanderthals” is quite entirely false logic.

    IMHO, we got red hair and potentially blond as well, from mixing an African type into the Neanderthal population. They were far north, under clouds, and cold adapted. That says light color hair and skin, and potentially blue eyes (that may also just be a recent mutation of about 14,000 years back… hard to say right now). Most likely also where Europeans got their non-gracile build (for many of us…) and our shorter stumpy legs and those of us who are barrel chested as well… Oh, and likely also why “white men can’t jump”…

    One of the OTHER errors in comparing gene sets is in saying that a load of genes in the modern population must all be modern, so if shared with a Neanderthal sample clearly show they are not Neanderthal specific. Bull. Could easily have made a cross over 100,000 or 200,000 years ago and we’d never know. (All it takes is for that gene to have strong advantage and move distinct from the rest of the cluster then drift through the primitive population to dominance without leaving enough samples for us to test / identify. Oh, and there’s essentially NO viable DNA from that far back…) So one really really big problem is just figuring out what genes are “modern human”…

    All that kind of stuff (and yes, there’s more…) get ignored in the popular press AND in many academic papers.

    (My background includes genetics 100A and 100B at UC, so I’m versed in some of this stuff.)

  24. Larry Ledwick says:

    @E M
    Then nature starts to select for which genes to keep and which to toss. The Neanderthal skull gene in question is only one out of the whole skull complex, so not like the carriers of it look odd, just a large head. Which causes more difficulty in childbirth as males (presently) prefer gracile (skinny) women …

    The fashion industry prefers gracile (skinny) women, but lots of men strongly prefer women with wider hips, with the classic pinup type figure.

    It would also explain the tendency for northern and eastern European women to have wider hips (ie think Swedish, Slavic, and Italian super models and movie stars of the late 1960’s before the fashion industry flipped over Twiggy)

  25. Power Grab says:

    After reading Weston A. Price’s book “Nutrition and Degeneration”, I can see that a lack of fat-soluble vitamins and minerals can lead to the narrower body build. Even at the point of conception, the pattern can be set, to a great extent.

    At this point, my kid would say, “Don’t get started!” OK. I won’t. For now.

  26. E.M.Smith says:

    @Power grab:

    It’s more than just nutrition determining gracile vs stocky. There’s a big genetic component. The classical “big boned”… Feed a gracile type A-Lot and you get a gracile person with a big spare tire and maybe some neck fat and ‘man boobs’ for the male. Feed a stocky type too little you get lots of big bones in a stocky individual with low fat levels under the skin layer, but still “as wide as tall”… as a stereotype.

    It is one of my main complaints about using BMI Body Mass Index as a indicator of obesity. It is a ratio of weight to height, but ignores that some of us have darned short legs, while some blacks have legs for 2/3 of their height. Essentially it assumes a standard leg to torso ratio and a standard width to fore/aft ratio for chest / torso. I’m more “barrel chested and stumpy legs” with thick bones and muscle mass. (Most every professional weight lifter and most American Football players, despite being in ideal condition, fail the BMI “test”…) In short, BMI is racist.

    Basically genetics determines the frame and nutrition determines how much you hang on it.

  27. E.M.Smith says:

    @Reisen: (Up thread a way, it was in moderation for a while as I wasn’t able to check, fighting a computer RAID issue / bug)

    Um, what you ‘expected’ to see is not my problem. Yes, I knew a unified Europe predates Kalgeri, dating back to at least the Roman Empire (who mostly succeeded) and potentially a bit earlier but we don’t know what the Celts were thinking when they dominated Europe pre-Rome. Then there was that Napoleon guy who wanted a unified Europe… then that Spanish Empire attempt, then… Oh, and the German Holy Roman Empire… But what was interesting to me about this guy was his placement in time and how his influence formed the modern attempt at One Europe.

    Don’t know what a “European displacement” is nor a “14/88 ers” might be. Perhaps you could speak less in code? You say Kalergi was 1/2 Jewish, but his mother was Japanese. Leaving alone the point that Jewish tradition says Mom must be Jewish for the kids to be; that would mean Dad was 100% Jewish. Didn’t notice that in the bio (then again, I don’t really care about Jewish-ness so probably just overlooked it. Still with the long European Pedigree of nobility, it seems odd for a Jew of that era.) The wiki seems to contract that claim too:

    The Coudenhove family dates back to the Duchy of Brabant nobleman and crusader Gerolf I de Coudenhove (died 1259) and, after it fought for the Habsburgs in the Dutch Revolt, it moved to Flanders before the Habsburgs and Coudenhoves were both driven to Austria by that war.

    The Kallergis, who are Greeks claimed descent from the Byzantine Phokas family, which produced several generals and an emperor (Nikephoros II). During the Venetian rule over Crete, the Kallergis family was one of the most important Greek Orthodox families in the island.

    The two families united when, on 27 June 1857 in Paris, Count Franz Coudenhove married Marie Kalergi, only daughter of Polish pianist Marie Nesselrode and her husband Jan Kalergi. The lands thus combined included the Zamato estate in the Carinthian mountains, the castle of Ottensheim in Upper Austria and the Ronsperg (Czech: Poběžovice) estate and castle in western Bohemia. Franz and Marie’s daughter had 6 children, including Heinrich, the first graf to use the double-barrelled name.[5] When his son Johannes Evangelist Virgilio Coudenhove-Kalergi was 24 years old, he asked the Emperor to give him the title Coudenhove-Kalergi of Ronspergheim (von Ronspergheim) and the Emperor granted his request.[1]

    “Crusader” doesn’t sound very Jewish, nor does “Greek Orthodox’… Just sayin’… you might want to do some fact checking on that 1/2 Jewish angle.

    BTW, I don’t know any “Alt-right-ers” and consider the term a pejorative of sorts fabricated by the “alt-Left-ers” as verbal abuse… And I only mentioned the 2 jewish supporters as they are ‘strangers in a strange land’ being immigrants. Had they been 2 folks from North Africa, I’d have said the same thing (well, the same but with “2 North Africans who…” instead of “2 Jews who”… ) It was the Romans who scattered the Jews though Europe, so after 1500 years maybe they did feel at home, but ought still we be aware of their apart-ness. As many of us feel it.

    Do realize I have Jewish family… so any notion of anti-semitism can die right here, right now…

    Oh, and since the German National Socialist Workers Party came AFTER the 1923 publication date of Pan Europa by Kalergi, using them as example of precursor is a bit, er, odd.

    Then we have “TBH” as more encoded something or other… I’d look it up but it’s late and time for bed… but “whatever”… and an accusation of my being “a bit sloppy”. Well, since this was just my reading an article I found interesting and giving my responses to it (AS I stated at the very first line…) I can’t see how it could possibly be “sloppy” since it is MY experience of it being put into comments about it. Now if YOU were dreaming up some academic encyclopedic treatment of the entire history of pan-european-ism, that’s not my problem and I don’t need to meet that (fantasy) expectation.

    In short, if you don’t like it, don’t read it. My experience and reaction to the wiki article are mine, and mine alone, and not subject your your desires (or anyone else’s either, for that matter).

  28. Gail Combs says:

    EM …. ….It is one of my main complaints about using BMI Body Mass Index as a indicator of obesity….

    Don’t get me started….

    If you think it is bad in Humans try animals!
    For worming (and other medication) the dose is based on weight and most people use a weight tape around the heart girth just behind the withers (bump at base of neck). My giraffe like 66 inches tall Saddlebred taped at 900 lbs and so did my big boned stocky SHORT — 52 inches tall — Haflinger. I managed to get my Halflinger onto a scale at a tractor pull. She actually weighed over 1200 pounds. Think what being off by 300 pounds does to your medication dosing and SELECTING FOR WORMER IMMUNITY!

    Dairy goats vs meat goats, cows, sheep has the same problem to the extent that cow tapes are dairy vs beef.

    When I figure out how much weight an animal can comfortable carry, I not only use the 20% of body weight using the infamous weight tape, I also measure around the lower front leg. (light or heavy boned) and measure behind the wither to the hip area of the spine (short or long backed)

    Since I have some great examples of short, heavy boned, short backed ponies and taller, light boned, long backed ponies, I use them to explain weight carrying to kids. It is a question that keeps showing up on Yahoo Horse section. —
    I weigh…., Am I too heavy for my 56 inch pony?

  29. Gail Combs says:

    On women’s figures you can thank the gay dress designers who are designing for BOYS and not true women of the “Rubenesque” style. A style that was fashionable up to quite recently.

    Part of the population curbing mind set maybe??
    Malthusianism came out of Robert Malthus, 1798 writings. John Maynard Keyne ,director of the Eugenics Society from 1937 to 1944, in Economic Consequences of the Peace opens with a Malthusian portrayal of the political economy of Europe as unstable due to Malthusian population pressure on food supplies. The Fabian co-founders were pushing Eugenics, the brainchild of Charles Darwin’s cousin Francis Galton. In 1913, the eugenicists succeeded in getting the Mental Incapacity Act through parliament. Similar laws were passed here in the USA.

    Remember the bustle?

    1880s Bustle Dress

    The bustle was reduced to a pad by the mid 1890 and was followed by the Edwardian Corset Fashion (Wasp Waist)

    By 1907 the corset was used to achieved a long slim silhouette. The corset started just above the waist and fitted well down the thighs… ===> Roaring 20’s boy like figure.

    Amazing the amount of sheer torture the ‘fashion industry’ puts women through.

  30. Gail Combs says:

    My comments using Opera got kicked into moderation. (This is in Firefox.)

  31. E.M.Smith says:


    Doubt it was related to the choice of browser. I use about 1/2 dozen different browsers in the course of a week… Most likely just the “whitelisting” process found something different and wanted a re-approval made so it could whitelist both profiles.

  32. Graeme No.3 says:

    Here you are Gail.
    In her radio show Dr. Laura Schlesinger said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22. This drew the following open letter.

    Dear Dr. Laura,
    thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s law. I have learned a great deal from your show and try and share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ….end of debate.

    I do need some advice from you regarding some other elements of God’s Laws.
    Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they come from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims this only applies to Mexicans, can you clarify? Why can’t I own a Canadian?

    I would also like to sell my daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. What do you think would be a fair price for her?

    When I burn a bull on the alter as a sacrifice, I know the odour is pleasing to the Lord – Leviticus 1:9
    The problem is my neighbours who claim the odour is not pleasing to them, should I smite them?

    I have a neighbour who persists in working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him, or should I ask the police to do it?

    Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?

    My uncle has a farm where he violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field. As does his wife who wears garments made of two different threads (cotton/polyester).
    He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary to go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Leviticus 24:10-16). Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20:14).

    I know you have studied these things extensively and have considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help me. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
    It would be a damn shame if we couldn’t own a Canadian.
    Your adoring fan,
    James M. Kauffman Professor Emeritus University of Virginia.

    EMS I have shortened this a bit so feel free to censor it.

    The ‘kicker’ is that bit (reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging) whereas in Christianity that was dropped by most sects after the unpleasantness in the fifteenth, sixteenth and seventeenth centuries and the millions of deaths. A lot of Muslims think otherwise.

  33. Gail Combs says:

    Graeme No.3 …

    Oh goody, does that mean I can buy a slave to work on my southern plantation??? I could really use a house slave (I hate housework) and at least a couple of field slaves….

  34. beththeserf says:

    beththeserf says ‘no.’ :)

  35. Zeke says:

    There are two kinds of slavery in the ancient world. There were civilizations that had a permanent slave caste, and there were also civilizations in which slavery was not a permanent state.

    How did people fall into slavery?
    1. Kidnapping. For example, Greeks were slave dealers.
    2. Invasion and subsequent slavery of the people
    3. Attempted invasion and defeat could result in enslavement of the army and people at home
    4. Debt slavery.

    The caste civilizations of the Babylonians, Greeks, Egyptians and Romans had a permanent slave underclass. Their entire economies and monumental building projects relied on it.

    There were other civilizations that had limited terms for slavery. The Mosaic Law Code limits servitude to seven years. Mosaic code states that there shall be one law for you and the stranger that dwells with you.

    Sometime I will leave you all an interesting account of the horrendous trip across the sea to the new world, and how difficult it was to get a buyer to pay the passage if a person arrived very sick, as they often did. They would sell themselves as indentured servants for seven years. It is not that far behind us. How much do all of you owe on your credit cards, because slavery works both ways and maybe it is you that ought to be working it off. lol lame joke (:.

  36. Zeke says:

    Let’s have a look at the “shaving of the temples” statute in Lev 19, which the alert and careful academic mentioned.

    It is in here somewhere:

    10 And you shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger: I am the Lord your God.

    11 ‘You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another. 12 And you shall not swear by My name falsely, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

    13 ‘You shall not cheat your neighbor, nor rob him. The wages of him who is hired shall not remain with you all night until morning. 14 You shall not curse the deaf, nor put a stumbling block before the blind, but shall fear your God: I am the Lord.

    15 ‘You shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial to the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go about as a talebearer among your people; nor shall you take a stand against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord.

    17 ‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

  37. Zeke says:

    Wait, look at this one:

    32 ‘You shall rise before the gray headed and honor the presence of an old man, and fear your God: I am the Lord.

    That is a good one. For around this blog. lol never mind

  38. Zeke says:

    I am going to find that verse the professor so fastidiously objected to, forbidding shaving the temples. Leviticus 19

    33 ‘And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

    35 ‘You shall do no injustice in judgment, in measurement of length, weight, or volume. 36 You shall have honest scales, honest weights, an honest ephah, and an honest hin: I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt.

    Just weights and balances receive quite a bit of attention in the Old Testament. Yahweh was disapproving of using different weights when buying and selling. I think that is a good principle to enshrine in law. I wish it was in the Constitution. You could even therefore try to use the same standards when judging other things too. –But I did not find that verse yet. Please be patient, I will get that to you. It is one of my favorite chapters and I used to have it memorized, but that was 20 years ago!

  39. Zeke says:

    Here are the offending verses:

    26 ‘You shall not eat anything with the blood, nor shall you practice divination or soothsaying. 27 You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard. 28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord.

    These are clearly warnings about practicing the occult rites that were all the rage in Canaan. One of their goddesses was called Asherah. So I imagine what the law was forbidding might look something like this:

    Mumbai boy has a gash cut into his head as part of Shi’ite Muslim …
    Nov 3, 2014 – Shi’ite Muslims believe that cutting themselves on the Day of Ashura is a … This Shi’ite Muslim child had his head gashed during a procession …

    Ashura Day: Why Shia Muslims mutilate themselves & their children …
    Oct 25, 2015 – Blood has been spilt as Shia Muslims marked the Day of Ashura, … on Saturday, cutting themselves with swords, knives and sharp chains.

    Nov 4, 2014 – WARNING: Contains content some viewers may find disturbing. Ashura commemorates the Prophet Mohammad’s grandson’s death is …

    And so on and so forth. Good night

  40. E.M.Smith says:

    @Graeme No3:

    Censor it? Heck, I want to find the original and read the whole thing…

    One of my complaints about Christianity is the “selective obedience” issue. (FWIW, I’ve threatened to get a Tattoo saying “Obey Leviticus!” .. think about it…. one could add the verse to make it easier for folks to look up. 28) Why? For those Christians who get tattoos saying things like “Christ Is King”… Heck, you could maybe talk a bunch of them into getting the Leviticus Tattoo with a decent story… For those who think the New Testament voids the Old Testament on things like circumcision and work on the Sabbath, but point at Leviticus when it fits their POV…

  41. llanfar says:

    Not sure how that applies too tattoos…

    “Any thing that is devoted to the Lord, whether it be man, or beast, or field, shall not be sold, neither may it be redeemed. Whatsoever is once consecrated shall be holy of holies to the Lord.”
    ‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭27:28‬ ‭DRC1752‬‬

  42. Graeme No.3 says:

    E. M. S.
    Have e-mailed full text to pub4all etc. I cannot guarantee this, it is one of those e-mails that go the rounds.
    I have also taken the liberty of sending one about Trump, which may not be to your taste.

  43. Graeme No.3 says:

    Gail Combs:
    I sugest you wait a few months. With all these celebrities rushing off to Canada ‘because of Trump’ it can only be a short time before the Canadians get sick and tired of them and start selling them cheap.
    Do not buy a Climate Scientist; they are expensive to keep and you never know if they have done the work they claim.

  44. philjourdan says:


    Oh goody, does that mean I can buy a slave to work on my southern plantation???

    Only if it comes from Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina or Georgia. But better not make it Virginia. If that caught on, what would the folks in Raleigh do about their 3 Rs? Readin, Ritin, and the Road to Richmond?

  45. Zeke says:

    As for Canadians, go ahead and grab a few of them for your southern plantation.
    It might work.

    But if you fail…

    Postcards will say, “Ooo. Too bad that is permanent. Canadian States’ rights.”

  46. Gail Combs says:

    And over in the UK… in response to the Bizerkley Riots we have this story: Reports of widespread rioting across UK takes government by surprise

  47. E.M.Smith says:


    I semi-regularly have the BBC America “news” on in the afternoon.

    Were they my only source of information, I’d think Trump was an out of control buffoon hell bent on being the next Mussolini while violating all laws and legal and social norms, not long for power as eventually the world shunning him will result in his ouster. While the brave courts and congress are grappling with ways to strip him of power before he does much damage to himself and to others or gets committed to an asylum… as the nation descends into chaos and riots due to him…

    Oh, and it is so important that the Speaker of parliament broke with the impartiality tradition to assert the PM must demand the visit of Trump to the UK be cancelled as such an evil and uncouth person could not be presented to Her Majesty (or the PM) without permanent damage from that risky person…

    They are well recruited into the “Putin Evil trump Risky and Stupid” spin doctoring line.

    I remember when they had real news and were someone you could trust. I used to get them on the (tone!) shortwave radio for my Mum to listen to the news from “back home”… Now they are just thinly veiled propaganda… Sigh. Oh Well.

    The UK is no more. What we have now is a water color of it…

    BTW, I think it’s a parody at your link: “militant vegans” is kinda a sarc; giveaway…

  48. Zeke says:

    Slaves do not appear out of no where. People got into servitude through debt, and the Hebrews were no exception, because in the end, all debts are honored and paid.

    But actually kidnapping people and selling them, or seizing people who had fallen on hard times — whether a naturalized migrant or not — was not allowed under Mosaic Law. It was a capital offense.

    16 “He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death.

    21 “You shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. 22 “You shall not afflict any widow or fatherless child. 23 If you afflict them in any way, and they cry at all to Me, I will surely hear their cry

    Extraordinary limitations to slavery appear throughout the Law. If a master knocks out the tooth or eye of a servant, the servant goes free. Men are not allowed to re-sell the female servants. They go free and are allowed to go home or start a new life. They cannot be resold in perpetual slavery. Also,

    5 “You shall not give back to his master the slave who has escaped from his master to you. 16 He may dwell with you in your midst, in the place which he chooses within one of your gates, where it seems best to him; you shall not oppress him.

    And what I find to be the most enlightened law of all, it was a capital offense to kill a person who is a slave just as it was for any other person.

    It is in general limited in duration, although a Hebrew might sell himself to a naturalized foreigner, and that could be up to 49 years for a Hebrew, and if the foreigner sold their own people as servants to you, that could be permanent. Now sadly I have two ggg grandparents who became servants when their parents died, in the 1800’s, but that seemed to end at the age of 18. And likely one or two who became indentured servants in order to pay for the voyage to the new world. I do have one ancestor who bought two guys off of the ships and had them fight in the Revolutionary War with him. He also gave so much whiskey to the troops he was considered a great patriot.

    I have spent a lot of time comparing Moses to Babylonian and Assyrian laws and they are truly enlightened in comparison because it is not a caste system. And it was not a monarchy. I also have spent a lot of time finding other ancient or European people who had laws which released servants after a period of time, and allowed daughters to inherit the land, etc etc, and I think you find similar systems with the Vikings, the Etruscans, and possibly the Fueros and some of the Baltic countries like the Westgoths. They were in contrast to the monumental caste systems of the Greeks, Romans and Babylonians. The Egyptians appear to be totally hopeless, as the word of Pharoah was law.

  49. M Simon says:

    Zeke says:
    6 February 2017 at 8:49 am

    Just weights are not in the Constitution. But we do have the NBS now called the NIST

  50. Zeke says:

    M Simon says, “Just weights are not in the Constitution. But we do have the NBS now called the NIST”

    I didn’t quite complete my thought.. I know that we have laws regarding standards and measures, but I just think that shrinking butter sticks and smaller chocolate bars should be unconstitutional.

    Although it is interesting that we have yet another alphabet soup bureaucracy involved in weights and measures. And the twitter account does not look too promising:

    NIST ‏@usnistgov Feb 17
    NIST Quest for #Climate-Friendly Refrigerants Finds Complicated Choices

  51. Gail Combs says:

    Zeke it is worse than just shrinking butter sticks and smaller chocolate bars. Those at least are detectable by the astute buyer without a problem.

    A couple of years ago when frying up a lot hamburger, I noticed the meat was literally swimming under ‘water’ Being a chemist who had dealt with the FDA, I decided to do some research.

    The Walmart 20% fat – 80% hamburger was ACTUALLY
    20% fat
    20% WATER
    60% meat.
    I did the trial three times (I have an Ohaus balance )

    Then I tried out some local grassfed beef. It was labeled 10% fat – 90% hamburger
    That was
    10% fat
    0% WATER
    90% meat.
    Again I did the trial three times.
    (Based on the amount of meat the local grassfed was CHEAPER!)

    With this evidence in hand I called the USDA, the FDA and the state weights and measures.

    Guess what?
    I was told that adding 20% water to the hamburger was NOT adultration of the product and they would do nothing!!!

    Not being the type to keep my mouth shut I spend a lot of time in Walmarts near the meat counter telling people about the problem as well as complaining to Walmart.

  52. Zeke says:

    Gail has everyone on speed dial. That’s good for all of us! Made my day XD

  53. E.M.Smith says:


    Yup. Recently bought a roll of groung turkey. When fried, first it forms a puddle, then it boils in the puddle, that eventually dries, then you can brown the surface.

    Finding a ham or turkey without “12% solution” of mystery crap injected is almost impossible. So I started just buying roasts… then… Last week I bought a pork shoulder roast. Ought to be a chunk of just meat. When unwrapping to cook, saw those faitful words in microscopic type on dark backgroud “12% Solution”… Roasting it gave a puddle in the pot and a stewed “roast”…

    It has become a big challenge just to find unwatered meat. They are even doing it to the cheap meats like chickens. I think it was Tyson had bragging on their lable that they had “enhanced” their chicken with “broth” injections. I.e. boiled chicken feet and trimmings (think beaks and brains).

    Now I must inspect (not just read, but thoroughly inspect) every package every time. Sigh.

  54. Gail Combs says:

    E.M. It is a real problem because a lot of the time it is not just water but SALT (NaCl) water. That can be a real problem if you are on a low sodium diet. PLUS that is ONLY NaCl with no added iodine.

  55. Gail Combs says:

    E.M. That is why I gave up and now buy direct from the farmer if I can. Many in my area have pork, chicken, lamb, beef, turkey and eggs.
    For example:

    Double R Cattle Services, Inc. is a family farm owned by Ritchie and Beverly Roberts and our two children….
    Quarter Beef (see Quarter Beef page) …………………………………$7.50

    This very popular package brings many repeat customers. Approximately 80 pounds of 100% Grassfed Beef for $7.50 per pound.
    4 Chuck Roasts
    1 Pot Roast
    1 Sirloin Tip Roast
    1 Flat Iron Steak
    1 London Broil
    1 Flank Steak OR 1 Skirt Steak
    2 Sirloin Steaks
    6 Boneless Ribeye Steaks
    4 NY Strip Steaks
    3 Tenderloin Steaks (filet)
    1 pkg. Cube Steak
    4 pkg. Stew Beef
    4 pkg. Short Ribs
    1 Brisket (at buyer’s request)
    After all weights of the above listed cuts are calculated, enough Ground Beef is added to make approximately 80 pounds [ =$600.00]

  56. Gail Combs says:

    While I am at it here is some info an goat meat and stuff I saved:

    Found in high concentrations in heart and liver tissue, in the mitochondria. L-Carnitine helps transform fats into energy.

    Carnitine is a conditionally essential nutrient that plays a vital role in energy production and fatty acid metabolism. Vegetarians possess a greater bioavailability than meat eaters. Distinct deficiencies arise either from genetic mutation of carnitine transporters or in association with other disorders such as liver or kidney disease. Carnitine deficiency occurs in aberrations of carnitine regulation in disorders such as diabetes, sepsis, cardiomyopathy, malnutrition, cirrhosis, endocrine disorders and with aging. ….Carnitine has been recognized as a nutritional supplement in cardiovascular disease and there is increasing evidence that carnitine supplementation may be beneficial in treating obesity, improving glucose intolerance and total energy expenditure.

    For us older folks esp for older women that looks very interesting.

    Part of the problem for us meat eaters is the poor quality of factory raised meat. Standing around in a confinement area does not lead to red muscle meat, just fat.

    Species and muscle differences in L-carnitine levels in skeletal muscles based on a new simple assay.
    Shimada K1, Sakuma Y, Wakamatsu J, Fukushima M, Sekikawa M, Kuchida K, Mikami M.
    Author information

    We have adapted the enzymatic method [Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications 176 (3) (1991) 1617] for the safe and rapid assay of L-carnitine (L-CA) in skeletal muscle using a microplate reader.

    The concentration of L-CA in fresh semitendinosus muscle from
    broiler chicken, 0.69
    pig, 1.09
    beef cattle, 1.86
    deer, 3.57 to 4.57
    horse 4.95
    goat muscle 11.36
    [Looks like all that jumping on the hoods of the trucks is actually good for something!]

    and μmol/g wet weight, respectively. The animals which had higher concentration of L-CA, also had the highest amounts of myoglobin as an index to the redness of the muscle. Furthermore, we investigated this relationship between white muscle, M. pectoralis profundus, and red muscle, M. soleus, in laying hens. The L-CA and myoglobin concentration in red muscle were significantly higher than those in white muscle (p<0.01). These findings suggest that L-CA concentration in muscle is related to oxygen metabolism and to myofiber types.

    Vitamin E and D3

    Women who take a daily supplement of 1000 IE vitamin D3 can lose almost 3 kg body fat in just 12 weeks and at the same time gain about 2 kg lean body mass. Nutritionists from Tehran University of Medical Sciences will soon publish an article on the subject in Nutrition Journal.

    High dose of biotin sabotages fat cell growth

    Large – but not absurdly so – doses of the vitamin biotin reduce the amount of triglycerides in the blood and they reduce fat mass too. Molecular researchers at the Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico discovered this when they did tests on mice. Might biotin be a useful slimming supplement? …

    Cardiologists discovered in the 1970s that if you give humans high doses of biotin you reduce the amount of lipids in their blood. [Kardiologiia. 1972 Dec;12(12):113.] [Artery. 1980;7(4):330-51.] This is appealing because triglycerides are a risk factor for cardiovascular disease

    ‘Ground Zero’ Of Alzheimer’s: Locus Coeruleus Identified As Critical Starting Point Of Disease

  57. Gail Combs says:

    Lutein, a compound found in leafy green vegetables, protects the eyes and increases energy expenditure in muscle cells – and it may also stimulate fat breakdown. We, the ignorant compilers of this free webzine, have a sneaking suspicion that this is the case after reading a couple of Dutch studies. Studies that at first glance would not seem to have anything to do with fat loss.

    Lutein is a carotenoid found in spinach and broccoli. You don’t find lutein very often in sports supplements, but you do find it in supplements intended to protect the eyes. Lutein protects the cornea and the retina from the damaging effects of bright light, and can therefore help to delay the progress of eye diseases such as age-related macular degeneration.

    Scientists in Maastricht, in the Netherlands, are doing research on this aspect of lutein. They suspect that one of the reasons that lutein works is because it inhibits the concentration of the enzyme complement factor D – aka adipsin.

    The same complement factor D also plays a role in the growth of fat tissue. It is produced and secreted by fat cells, where it is involved in the uptake of glucose and the conversion of glucose into fat. Complement factor D also inhibits lipolysis: the process by which fat cells release their contents into the bloodstream.

    The Dutch concluded from their studies that “lutein supplementation may be a powerful tool in the prevention and treatment of age-related macular degeneration”. And lutein may well be even more interesting than the Dutchies realise.

    the subjects took age-inhibiting supplements. Every day they took a multivitamin cocktail of all B vitamins and minerals, 2 g L-carnitine, 400 mg alpha-lipoic acid, 100 mg Q10, a spoon of fish oil, 300 mg magnesium, 300 mg potassium, 1 g vitamin C and 800 mg vitamin E.

    Magnesium and vitamin B6

  58. Zeke says:

    I share Australians’ concern about being forced to pay for halal certified food, and meat that is slaughtered using halal methods.

    “This week marked the final hearing for the Senate inquiry into food certification. The focus of the day was the fast growing halal certification industry that sees a huge variety of products certified as ‘approved for Muslims’.

    A fee is paid by companies to make that claim and it extends from exported food and medicinal products through to soccer balls, cat food and football boots.”

  59. Zeke says:

    Pauline Hansen on Halal certification:


    Do you realise that you are paying a tax/surcharge that funds ISLAMIC SCHOOLS AND MOSQUES, when you do your shopping? What is also believed is that it funds terrorism.
    In October 2010, news broke about how the Campbell’s Soup Company received an Islamic (halal) certification for some of its product line, and many were outraged. There was a legitimate concern – not with the fact that Campbell’s received the certification, but with what organisation the certification came from, that being the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) which is a group co-founded by Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) leader Sami al-Arian.

    In France, the Halal food market is worth an estimated $7 Billion per annum
    Companies in Australia don’t discuss what it costs them, as they have signed non-disclosure agreements. Yet we have been informed that one chicken manufacturer in Australia had to pay $40,000 per processing plant per annum, a milk producer has to pay $7,000 per annum and even a small confectionery manufacturer was quoted $1,800 per annum. These fees are passed onto the consumer, YOU.

  60. Zeke says:

    Also, for health concerns, country of origin is very important to include on labels. That way, you can avoid buying meat from China, which does not have the standards we have here.

    There is a video which explains the top 10 fake foods from China. But most have heard of plastic rice, either from (Pres. Trump’s nominee) Navarro’s books, or from the news.

  61. Zeke says:

    By the way, has anyone noticed Taco Bell’s new “Naked Chicken” menu?

    Is that any relation to the featherless birds developed recently?

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