W.O.O.D. – Weekly Occasional Open Discussion

I’m going to try a new type of posting.
A semi-regular Weekly Occasional (i.e. if I forget and skip one, no big) Open Discussion.

Tips just grows too big in a month and with way too many videos to load fast on the small gear I’m using (Raspberry Pi or the MacBook running from a slow SD Card based system). Much of Tips, though, isn’t so much Tips as just discussing news of the day (or week).

So the whole idea here is to put actual Tips in the Tips pages (things that are interesting, but not really likely to generate immediate discussion- like, say, a pointer to a paper on limitations of averaging temperatures; while putting things likely to be discussion points here (like the recent news events or political bonfires).

Then, if folks DO want to discuss something in Tips, they can just put a link to that comment here and start discussing… No need to load all of Tips every time you want to make a comment.

So use “Tips” for “Oooh, look at the old shiny thing!”
and “W.O.O.D” for “Did you see WTF just happened?! What did you think about it?”

Examples:

Tips would have things like the links by Sabretoothed to UV light and health, or old papers on ocean circulation in an archive.

WOOD would have things like the discussion topic of Charlottesville and the Antifa caused riot. Or the pointers to recent postings at Pointman or Small Dead Animals for real time discussion.

One other difference: Tips is a chain from month to month, I close the last one when I open a new one. The WOOD postings will be left open for ongoing discussion on a topic until they naturally age closed (currently set to several months).

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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78 Responses to W.O.O.D. – Weekly Occasional Open Discussion

  1. E.M.Smith says:

    Just to get things started, in “Tips” I’d made a topic comment here:
    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2017/07/29/tips-august-2017/#comment-85745

    (The date on a comment is a link to it that you can copy)

    Looking at several reports of the “car vs antifa” event in Virginia, this one has a few videos, but also reports what is likely only rumor at this point that a rock was thrown at the car as it was passing the area, THEN the driver returned to ram the crowd.

    In other words, road rage.

    http://www.patdollard.com/1-dead-19-injured-after-car-plows-into-group-of-antifa-scum-in-charlottesville/
    […]

    Which was followed up by Larry here:

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2017/07/29/tips-august-2017/#comment-85749

    […]
    Some are saying someone threw a rock at Fields car and that is when he drove into the crowd.

    This if true would make it more legitimately a case of road rage rather than some premeditated racist incident.

    The other issue is the police being ordered to disperse so that the Antifa and BLM protestors could take over the streets. If true this seems to be a set up for some violent out come. If there was a declaration that it was an unlawful assembly normal police procedure would have been to systematically sweep the streets and clear the area.

    The lady that was killed apparently got pinned in between cars when he collided with the car in the crowd. I saw one item that she might have been a paralegal for a local Charlotte legal firm, but that is unconfirmed.

    Given that a Civil Rights case is open on this the major media are pretty quiet about details.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/us/charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally-car-crash/index.html

    So I’ll be watching the news for any dawning light on this…

  2. Steven Fraser says:

    I have been following the development of this as well, and have taken the attitude to suspend judgment until more details are revealed by the investigations, for example, the timing and content of the orders given to the law enforcement personnel, the locations of the demonstrators of both sides at the time of the order to disperse, etc. One thing I have realized is that th MSM reporting is always incomplete and full-of-‘spin’ for the first couple of days when one of these events occurs.

    And I am also reminded that people get killed at soccer games occasionally, and that Baseball and Hockey teams mix it up from time to time. They both seem to be better refereed than Berkeley or Charlottesville…

  3. cdquarles says:

    I always keep in mind that the media will *never*, *ever*, report these incidents objectively. They will all leave something out. The upside to the internet these days is that incidents like this will always have multiple sources that can be evaluated outside of the ‘mainstream’ (not) media’s ‘editorial’ filters. Best is multiple live video concurrently captured and broadcast while the event is happening.

  4. JP Miller says:

    I wonder if those supportive of removing/ destroying the statue of Robert E. Lee understand those actions are not different in kind than the Taliban destroying Buddhist images in their land? I surely disagree with violence. I surely support people speaking out about the injustices they feel. Do I believe the REL statue should stay or be removed? I’d say remove it to a museum. Otherwise, we accept destruction of history as acceptable political action. He who controls the past controls the future…

  5. Larry Ledwick says:

    I like the idea of the W.O.O.D thread, but now a new dilemma – – is this item cool enough for tips or just something to chat about around the wood stove in the country store?

    On the topic of news reporting of events like Charlottesville, I am of the same opinion it is clear that modern media is too willing to break the story even if incomplete or not fact checked (Oh for the days of a good senior editor who would force the reporter to go back and check a few things).

    The Social media definitely is a huge resource but it takes time for all the real time video reporting to get posted, noticed by others and linked/retweeted as the crowd sourcing culls the wheat from the chaff. Yesterday I saw several videos that had good view points of the actual car into the crowd situation, and they clearly show a couple things.

    One I suspect the driver did not expect that there would be other cars embedded in the crowd and expected the crowd to part like the red sea as he drove through it. Thus very surprised and stunned by the impact with the car. Second one of the later videos showed that not 5-10 seconds after the impact Antifa rioters with metal base ball bats began pummeling his car, which gave him no choice but to slam it in reverse and get out of there.

    One of the severely injured was probably one of those bat wielding rioters who jumped on his rear deck and wing just as he started backing up and got picked off by a glancing impact with a parked truck as the car accelerated in reverse. He probably suffered a shattered pelvis or similar injury as he got pinched between the parked truck and the moving car.

    I was able to time the arrival of professional police and EMT folks based on a couple of those videos. It took about 5 minutes for the first police fire rescue to arrive at the scene after the crash.

    A small number of individuals began self help immediately, so basic first aid like CPR was started just a couple minutes after the pedestrians got hit.

    I suspect the local government actions will play a big part in the Civil Rights investigation, regarding how the police responded to events and appear like other similar situations (Berkeley) to have showed a clear bias on who they were going to restrict and who they were going to let run wild.

    Some are talking about the Police “failed to protect” or threatened to withhold protection for some of the protesters. Unfortunately there have been court decisions that the police have no duty to protect, so although that sounds like a procedural failure to perform, in a legal context, it may not have any merit or impact on the case.

    Perhaps there is some ground in between those concepts where there might have been negligence by the Police to fail to even attempt to keep the groups separate until they had largely dispersed.

    Clearly, allowing violence prone armed mobs like Antifa to mill about unhindered by a police presence, or any effort to limit obvious hand weapons of riot like metal baseball bats, is simply an invitation to violence.

  6. E.M.Smith says:

    Gritted my teeth and watched CBS News this morning. They had some numpty in a tie on decrying the horror of Trump having “moral equivalence” between the various violence activities.

    I wanted to shout at the guy…

    It is essential that one have “moral equivalence” toward violence in the streets. Otherwise, you are cheerleaders promoting the violence on one side.

    Oh, and the emphasis on “peaceful counter protestors” was treacle on cardboard… So ANTIFA shows up, with clubs, helmets, rocks, and a long history of violence; tosses rocks at a guy with mental problems as he drives by, and then bashes the snot out of his windows after he plows into them and they are “peaceful”? Yeah, right… /sarc.

    North Korea:

    Looks like Kim Dum Dimwit has issued a description of his intent to drop a few missiles in the 30 km or so range of Guam just as the USA, Japan, and who knows who all else are having a practice war in his neighborhood. “Mid August”. Which would be now… So figure next week Little Dum Dumpling gets his country lit up…

    Of Course, CBSN and others had folks wringing their hands over Trump’s words. It just reeks of folks who have never ever been on a dark street at night on the wrong side of town. Trump knows what the streets are like. He may not have been in them often, but he’s been to his construction sites all over the world and he’s had reports of damage and such. Likely also had to deal with “local little big shots” wanting a cut of the action… THE best chances for peace are, in order:

    1) Tell the pipsqueak you WILL flatten him if he gets out of line. This works well if delivered bluntly, forcefully, CLEARLY, and in rough language. It MUST be believed, and I can assure you from years of “experiments’ that delivering that message politely just ends up with the attack coming faster. Delivering it bluntly and with clear determination works MUCH better.

    2) If the pipsqueak doesn’t “get it” and “pushes it”: Flatten him immediately with an overwhelming attack. Not only does it promptly end the current situation, but it educates anyone around that a) YOU are to be believed and NOT challenged. b) Pipsqueak can be beaten, so go for it.

    We’ve had several decades of polite diplomacy and shipping N.K. $Billions and all it has done is train him, and the world, that we’re a good patsy for a shakedown and they have nothing to fear from trying. THAT needs to change.

    BTW, I currently live at the far edge of the N.K. probable Nuke Landing Zone for their next crop of missiles that WILL have nukes on them. This isn’t a theoretical issue to me.

  7. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry:

    Yeah, the Police are there just to write up the reports after the fact, not actually stop crime. I learned this when reporting a stolen battery from my truck. Police said “We’ll take the report (over the phone) so you can file for insurance”… My response: “Oh, so you’re saying I ought to just go steal a replacement as you do nothing?…”

    WHY it is essential to have your own protection methods. You don’t want to just be a ‘report’ in the after action logs.

    As per what’s WOOD vs Tips: Mostly just ‘currency’ and probable discussion. So a “tip” would be something like “Found: New planet around Alpha Centauri”. Interesting, but not a lot to discuss. A WOOD would be something like “Quake in Yosemite causes vent to open” or even just “Trump on TV NOW saying N.K. is toast” ;-)

  8. Glenn999 says:

    Thanks for the thread EM
    My biggest question right now is “Was BLM or antifa given a permit to counter protest?”. We know the original permit was for ‘unite the right’ to protest the removal of the statue. Supposedly their permit was rescinded at the last moment by the city council, only to be granted the right to assemble by the court. However, once they were on site, they were told once again it was illegal, and to disperse.
    I have read over a dozen news accounts of the events, and no mention if BLM or antifa were issued permit???
    This smells like an operation to facilitate chaos, create a crisis and take advantage of it for political gain. Look at the comments by lefties and never-Trumpers.

  9. E.M.Smith says:

    @Glenn999:

    Looks that way to me, too. Way too many “talking heads” ready for The Story and spouting the party line.

    Reuters had the same spin:

    “We’re mad at Trump and it is all his fault for not doing what we wanted and adopting the Left Party Line”.

    The whole “spin” is a Knight Fork. They (the Left Socialists) see “whites” and “southerners” as Trump Supporters. So the goal is to get Trump to denounce them. IF he doesn’t, they paint Trump as Racist!!!! for not denouncing “White Nationalists”. Even though he has nothing to do with them.

    Just more Socialist Political Crap, IMHO. The ANTIFA are just the typical Socialist Brown Shirts as were used by the National Socialists of Germany.

    It is all in the pattern of the Color Revolutions. Do something to provoke the non-Socialists (like destroy iconic statues). When you get the reaction you want, escalate it to a crisis. Pin the crisis on the guy you want to take down, then attack his legitimacy until removed. That’s the “game plan”.

  10. Larry Ledwick says:

    There seems to be a clear pattern of non-confrontation by local authorities and the Left and violent Anarcho-Communists like Antifa being allowed to do pretty much what ever they want.
    That if true is clearly complicity and enabling behavior on the part of the leadership of those communities, and they should be charged with accessory to x regarding any crimes that occur.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/local/atlanta-protesters-deface-peace-monument-piedmont-park/6S670h6xMON2SqfzoKAc2M/

  11. Larry Ledwick says:

    Surprise announcement by President Trump strongly denouncing White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis And KKK etc.

    https://www.chicksontheright.com/2017/08/14/president-trump-specifically-condemns-white-supremacists-neo-nazis-kkk-surprise-statement

  12. E.M.Smith says:

    Yeah, just saw it on ABC News.

    Their spin on it is he was “forced into it” and “had no choice” etc etc

    Don’t know if this is just “playing politics” or Trump has been shown subject to manipulation.

    Clearly it isn’t buying him any points. ABC still spinning it as “Turkey Trump slow on racism”.

    There has to be a better way…

  13. Another Ian says:


    If Women Ran The World
    By Kate on August 14, 2017 10:40 AM | 5 Comments

    We’d still be living in caves – with really, really fancy curtains.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/08/if-women-ran-th-38.html#comments

  14. E.M.Smith says:

    @Another Ian:

    Cute humor… I did take issue with using knitting as an example of non-tech. I commented there:

    While I appreciate the humor in the link, women did invent several key technologies.

    The “line” that bothered me was the one about knitting. The reality is that knitting and weaving are stongly tied to the history of software and computing. The first programmers were women. Not just Ada Agusta, Countess of Lovelace who did the early Babbage work, but in knitting itself.

    The written formula to knit an object is a programming language. It includes subroutines and control structures (like “repeat 6 times”) along with most things that qualify as a language. Women wrote and traded these long before computers were in use. I regularly used that example when teaching the section on computer programming at Community College. The women immediately “got it”, the men not so much.

    It was my Mum who introduced me to knitting and those formulas some 50 years ago… I remember being facinated by the concept of a subroutine (though it wasn’t called that). It likely contributed to my entering programming as s profession.

    So “good joke” but “wrong example”….

    In reality, it was closer to 60 years ago…

    It was one of those “Ah Ha!” moments, realizing that little book of knitting patterns described exactly how to make sweaters, socks, hats, whatever. The subroutines and “for do” loops particularly made me think. Likely the moment the future programmer was born… before I had any clue what a computer was. (About 5? About 1957?)

    http://www.craftyarncouncil.com/tip_knit.html

  15. Larry Ledwick says:

    Interesting item here about Russian manipulation of the extreme right.
    It is classic Soviet/Russian provocation technique to influence both sides of a situation and set up a “Let’s you and him fight” scenario.

    Give recent Democratic efforts to sell everything as being connected to Russia this of course demands a bit more scrutiny than otherwise, but other sources have pointed out the remarkable similarities (including the torch parade) to the protests in Ukraine before Russia used that situation to justify their seizing of the Crimea, so a few little green men in the crowd is not out of the question.

    http://observer.com/2017/08/charlottesville-alt-right-counterintelligence/

  16. Larry Ledwick says:

    Protesters in Durahm just pulled down a Confederate statue – – the crowd cheers while a few of them kick the broken statue (just like the folks in the middle east).

    Twitter link for those that have access to it, so far has not appeared on searches for youtube.

  17. Pouncer says:

    Knitting yes. And were not Hollerith cards used in looms before census tabulation calculators?p

  18. Larry Ledwick says:

    Hollerith cards were invented for the census but very similar technology was used for looms to produce printed patterns, that in turn was built on a foundation for automated equipment built by the British to produces block and tackle for their Navy. The sequence is covered in one of the episodes of “Connections” “Faith in Numbers”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_loom

  19. LG says:

    @EMSmith.
    Would you consider making the weekly WOOD a sticky at the top of the blog for that period ?

  20. Larry Ledwick says:

    Fox news link to the statue pull down video in Durham.

    http://kdvr.com/2017/08/14/protestors-topple-confederate-monument-in-north-carolina/

  21. Larry Ledwick says:

    StefanMolyneux commentary on Charlottesville

    A 28 minute video commentary

  22. philjourdan says:

    An onsite report from after the fact. Our main office (for this branch of the company) is located around the corner from the local police station and courts building. The only parking is located on the other side. We had a meeting yesterday with a new head of the department, so I had to drive out to C’ville and then navigate the crowd waiting for the idiot to be arraigned. I could have walked over the reporters and never touched the ground (there were police directing traffic as it was that bad).

    @E.M. – Was that reporter wearing a blue blazer and dark tie? I saw one clown holding a mike waiting for the cameras to roll, and he was wearing Khaki pants and tennis shoes. Apparently they only dress from the waist up. I felt sorry for the police as they had to contend with prima donnas thinking they could set up cameras in the middle of a public street (the main one through the heart of the city since they converted “Main Street” into a downtown mall). But it was peaceful. You could tell the antifa from the reporters. They were the ugly ones with snarls on their faces. But there were very few of them. I could not tell if there were any white supremacists (no one was wearing a hood or sporting a t-shirt to that effect).

    I do not really care if it was road rage or just hate. The clown (from Ohio no less) is a murderer. Period. But my blame is for the Mayor and the Governor. They called off the police that were keeping the hate sides apart (and yes, I totally support Trump’s original statement as the hate was on BOTH sides – it does not matter your excuse – if you hate because of a person’s birth, you are a bigot. Period). So naturally right after the protest exploded, they blamed Trump. Trump could have come out and sung the BLM fight song and they would still have condemned him. Just look at Ted Cruz!

    The media and the left are worse than any so called “right wing” hate group (the only thing “right” about them is that the left uses them as an excuse for violence). The tragedy was all the creation of the Antifa. The impotent KKK has been marching through cities for the past 40 years, all dozen or so of them, and in cities where the Mayors are competent, all that happens is cat calls.

    But Antifa has been destroying cities for the past year. Neither the media nor the left have condemned them yet.

    I feel sorry for C’Ville (my son lives there) as it has an incompetent idiot for a mayor. But it is a PC college town, so I guess that is to be expected.

  23. E.M.Smith says:

    Larry posted a link to an interesting article, but hit the Pi thread instead here:
    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2017/08/12/notes-on-devuan-on-disk-on-r-pi-model-3/#comment-85794

    The article / link is:

    https://medium.com/@zachhaller/terry-mcauliffe-and-mike-signer-have-charlottesville-blood-on-their-hands-607fd8a4a993

    A sample:

    Worse, what they did was show continued participation in the Clinton-Obama establishment in a tantrum state as Trump’s administration neuters the massively corrupt network they hoped to install to rule the free world. That the Charlottesville clash took place on Clinton crony McAuliffe’s home turf, at the “capital of the Resistance”, and inflamed by paid partisan agitators, is by no means a coincidence: it is a clear continuation of the Clinton-Obama war on the 99%. Americans must resolve with unity to address this.

    Oddly, I had to wrap that link in an href wrapper since just pasting it in causes some kind of process to run to display a photo / sample. I.E. not just the link text but a promo photo that links.

  24. philjourdan says:

    That the Charlottesville clash took place on Clinton crony McAuliffe’s home turf, at the “capital of the Resistance”, and inflamed by paid partisan agitators, is by no means a coincidence:

    I am by no means alone in my assessment of the situation.

  25. Steven Fraser says:

    I really grokked the knitting-as-programming comments, though I think of the act of knitting to be the ‘running’ of the program, and the programming is in the sequencing of steps.

    Extending the thought, I think there are parallels in the musical world with the process of composition. 1) intent – what is to be made, 2) high-level structure selection – large content blocks ( movements, modules, parts of sweater) which will be later fit together into the whole, 3) algorithms – selection and sequencing of the large-to-small scale procedures and patterns ( knit 1, perl 2, repeat 20 times… musical motives and harmonic patterns.. while n<= limit, do) 4) encoding of the processes in an executable language ( coding, scoring, sequenced knitting stitch instructions) , 5) performance of the instructions in real time by 1 or more persons (processors) , perhaps collaborating in a timed manner (conductor/clock cycles) 6) reveal and use of the result.

  26. Glenn999 says:

    Trump just said in a press interview that one side had a permit, and that the other side did not have a permit…. so we will see.

  27. E.M.Smith says:

    @Steven Fraser:

    There’s an interesting dilemma in knitting formulas as programming. Some are written as annotation of what an expert knitter actually did, so more “precise documentation”, while others are written as plans for what you want to do, so programs. (Complete with ‘bugs’ when you find that the plan doesn’t look like the vision so needs revising).

    The other interesting (and more known) connection of programming to textiles is the Hollerith Card. They were based on punched cards originally used to “program” complex patterns into looms for weaving…

    In many ways, knitting and weaving were the ones pushing the envelope on automation and programming long before computers got into it and borrowed a bunch of their ideas…

    You can now get “knitting machines” and feed them the “program” so it really has become a programming process for machines.

    @Glenn999:

    Well, the original protest group had a permit, that was rescinded, and then approved again, and then who knows what. The counter-protestors likely did not.

    IMHO the whole intent of “counter protests” being to cause mayhem and violence, they need to be told in no uncertain terms they will be arrested if they show up at a rally with a permit. Period. Then do it.

    The violence needs to be ended, and that comes from stopping Antifa and their “in your face with a club” attitudes from taking action. Essentially, just say ALL counter protests must be on alternate days from the main event. Enforce free speech for ALL, and enforce zero violence from all…

    IMHO, there’s enough evidence of planning, coordination, and intent to hit Antifa and their funders (cough Soros) with a RICO charge and start fleecing them a bit…

    Who can file a RICO claim? Does it take an official, or can, say, a Lawyer for that Duke guy do it?

  28. Larry Ledwick says:

    I think RICO is strictly the province of the FEDs and the Justice Dept.

    On that note how ever, looks like local police in Durham are taking action against the folks that vandalized the civil war statue.

    http://www.wral.com/durham-sheriff-to-seek-charges-for-confederate-statue-vandalism/16881777/

  29. Larry Ledwick says:

    Looks like RICO can be brought into play in either state or Federal courts. Personally I think this is the only avenue open to lean on Soros and his groups.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act

  30. Another Ian says:

    E.M.

    “Charlottesville, In My Own Words – Faith Goldy”

    Link at

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/08/well-said.html#comments

  31. pyromancer76 says:

    E.M. and crew, this is such an interesting conversation – W.O.O.D. I believe this “racism” issue is the new one to try to topple or at least “get” Pres Trump. Too many people (including CEOs are saying the exact same thing. I commented about this on another blog and am including that comment here — if it allowed. Their globalists-trillions of $$ are at stake.

    Now we know why the racism/slavery issue is next, since muh Russia has not worked. Also it looks like Charlottesville was planned and timed for right before NAFTA re-negotiations. It is a set up, taking down statues of racist dudes, bringing in nasty white supremacists, the police funneling the permitted crowd into the violence. Claiming American is more divided than ever. Nonsense. It is all planned. I hope President Trump and AG Sessions throw the book at everyone who has crossed federal laws.

    Walmart’s McMillion: “As we watched the events and the response from President Trump over the weekend, we too felt that he missed a critical opportunity to help bring our country together by unequivocally rejecting the appalling actions of white supremacists.”

    Merck, Armour, and Intel used Charlottesville as an excuse. Intel’s Krzanich stated: “I have already made clear my abhorrence at the recent hate-spawned violence in Charlottesville, and earlier today I called on all leaders to condemn the white supremacists and their ilk who marched and committed violence.”

    A SET UP. No American support for peaceful assembly and permitted marches. No abhorrence of on-lookers’ horrendous violence and police funneling marchers into violence. Set Up! Thank goodness President Trump set the record straight.

    A side note, IJR reports: “Eighty-nine members of “violent white supremacist gangs” were convicted, with convicts receiving a total of more than 1,070 years in prison.” http://ijr.com/2017/08/947008-charlottesville-ice-announces-unprecedented-prosecution-white-supremacists/

    E.M., your earlier comments about confronting those committing violent acts immediately and with deliberate force is right on. (4:20 p.m.). The government should be immediately on this as well, so long as they are within their appropriate authority.

    The thread for the comment: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/08/15/on-eve-of-nafta-re-negotiations-manufacturing-ceos-and-richard-trumka-drop-masks/comment-page-1/#comment-4266425

  32. E.M.Smith says:

    @LG:

    I’d consider it, but would need to know why… I’m doing, maybe, one posting a day max. The newest one ought to be in the right side list the whole week….

    @PhilJourdan:

    Yes, many reporters only dress up above the waist. At times, camera guys have made a joke of it by zooming out and showing the guy in swim trunks or standig barefoot in the shallow end…

    I can see some benefts. Mingke with the crowd in rough dress and not stand out for candid interviews and shots, toss on jacket with clip tie for live…

    @pyromancer76:

    Cut and paste from other places is fine. As is link to text elsewhere. Whatever works.

    The Left have made catcalling RACIST!!! a core strategy for decades. Now they are just ramping it up to fuul throat to try pinning it on Trump and making it a wedge issue between voting groups. Trying to assure no second term by shouting racist and failure and turmoil for 4 years (or less if they can gin up an impeachment).

    Listened to NPR news this morning (I think it was… on public radio). It was all Trump Racist and White Supremacist all the time… Only a brief break to decry “moral equivalency” as racist… So it’s OK to riot and hit people for being pro white, but evil to hit the folks doing the hitting regardless of race, as being just anti-violence is racist since you DIDN’T endorce the PC Creedo… Just amazing degree of indoctrination…

  33. E.M.Smith says:

    @P76:

    Tried to read the C.Treehouse article, but their site does something that confuses Opera on the tablet. So I get through 1/2 of it, then it pops back to top of page… Later I’ll try Pale Moon or Fire Phoenix and see it they like it.

    The point of the article, near as I could tell, was about the Manufacturing Council and NAFTA manipulation. Oddly (or perhaps by design?) that was on NPR this morning too. Painted as chaos in Trump Land, of course. Their “contribution” being to point out informal meetings had happened despite no formal ones, BUT no labor representatives were present (so clearly it and Trump are anti labor…)

    I’ve grown cynical over the Obama Years. It became clear that every organ of government at all levels from city (and maybe even home owners associations) to State to National on up to international treaties and the UN have been corrupted to serve The Agenda of the very rich globalists. While there is some jockeying for position between them (Soros vs Bezos vs Hunt Bros. vs…) the notion of government “of, by, and for The People” is nowhere to be seen…

    So now my starting assumption is that any government or quasi government or even NGO agency is NOT working for me or The People, but has an ulterior motive; until proven otherwise. Exact opposite of a decade ago…

    Just too much evidence on public display. From emails to foia to public statements to observed actions. It is the simplest explanation accounting for the know facts.

    Thus my statements, starting a couple of years back, that the best action is to just close whole agencies, abolish treaties and “deals”, cease funding ANY NGOs, etc. etc. Just tear it all down and start over. Absence of power is better than corrupted power…

    I think Trump understands the “demolish then build new” paradigm, thus my vote for him.

    How to fix things on the international level is unclear to me, but Britain and Brexit made a start. They realized that the EU is too remote to fix, and too corrupted to keep, so leaving breaks that grip. IFF they can get it done…

  34. jim2 says:

    The lefties were really hoping a right-winger would shoot someone in Charlottesville. PeelLoser said guns should be banned afterwards, not matter a car was used. Her addled brain probably actually believed it was a gun.

  35. David Young says:

    The problem at CTH with the page jumping back to the top is some very badly behaved ad software. I’ve noticed it tends to be located in the upper right-hand corner of the page. It runs a series of different ad video’s – each time it starts a new one the java script forces the page back to the ad’s physical location at the top to force us to see the ad. Many of the site’s users have installed ad blockers to stop this.

    I have found I can get around it (most of the time) by stopping the page load as soon as the page itself is up – but before the ads load. Also – disabling java script prevents this, but at the expense of a page mostly bare of video’s.

  36. jim2 says:

    I’ve been aware that lefties are infiltration all sorts of organizations for many years. Sometimes I think lefties are smarter than conservatives. Or maybe there’s a couple of smart ones leading a bunch of dumb ones. And on top of that, conservatives tend to be more independent, not acting as a group.

  37. Zeke says:

    “Unite the Right” possibly very fake.

    Questions about Jason Kessler’s past are in the process of being vetted. Possible former Occupy Movement and Obama supporter. Ref: Breitbart

  38. Larry Ledwick says:

    Sometimes I think lefties are smarter than conservatives. Or maybe there’s a couple of smart ones leading a bunch of dumb ones. And on top of that, conservatives tend to be more independent, not acting as a group.

    Conservatives tend to believe in playing by the rules, so when compared to a group like the left who are amoral Machiavellians who only concern themselves with results, rather than the process, the conservatives will always come out the losers – – – – until they finally realize they are in a slow motion war. Then the gloves come off and things get very nasty very fast.

    Like some play ground bullies the Left will keep pushing until the general public says enough is enough, and starts to push back. That process already started with the election of a total outsider like Trump rather than a traditional candidate. How far it goes is entirely up to the Left.

    If they get smart and back off, they may resume their inch by inch takeover that has been going on since the 1960’s but I fear they are getting greedy and desperate thinking this is their last good chance to pull off their people’s revolt of the west. That does not bode well for peaceful outcomes.

  39. jim2 says:

    I was watching some footage (supposedly) from Charlottesville. Some was of a bunch of guys carrying tiki torches and smirking. I just got a gut feeling they were playing for the other side. Same for the Nazi salute to Trump. It just doesn’t ring true.

  40. Larry Ledwick says:

    I am sure there were paid shills in that group, it is very common in Soviet style use of agents provocateurs by putting moles in radical groups that incite them to create photo opportunities or give the movement black eyes by doing something over the top.

    Often the most radical public members of such groups are actually controlled by the other side solely to create such disruption and opportunities. In the anti-castro community often the most incendiary anti-castro voices were actually double agents for Castro which is why those anti-castro plots almost always failed as these “leaders” were burning the groups the minute they landed in Cuba.

    You ever notice that there is always a camera in just the right place to get the perfect propaganda picture of such events? It is never some crummy photo angle but obviously some capable photographer in just the right place to get the perfectly framed picture with the right background and context to make a perfect negative image.

  41. R. de Haan says:

    Nothing is black and White if we look back at our history: Read about Anthony Johnson, an Angolan black slave holder who successfully defended his right to keep slaves in the Court of Virginia in 1655.
    30% of the slave holders in the US were black free slaves against 1% of White slave holders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)

    Of course I am against any kind of slavery but to have minority groups (identity groups) groups undermining our entire cultural herritage based on poor historical fact finding is unacceptable to me. We see these groups active all over the Free West. It has to stop or we end up with a civil war, not only in the US but also in Europe.

  42. Larry Ledwick says:

    Not sure how trustworthy this site is or the info (needs additional checking) but worth filing away for future reference as info develops.

    This is a case of the report seeming to confirm the facts so passes the initial Occam’s razor test in my mind.

    http://yournewswire.com/charlottesville-inside-job/amp/

  43. Larry Ledwick says:

    Here is an interesting item that suggests that current events are a willing misdirection by the Trump team, they are happy to let the Democrats go ballistic about Charlotte as it saturates the news cycle while they are doing other things behind the curtains.

    (beware the magicians other hand and don’t watch the pretty assistant)

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/16/bannon-calls-left-wing-journalist-declare-economic-war-china/

  44. E.M.Smith says:

    @Jim2:

    EVERY “social movement” organization is infiltrated with loads of folks from Agencies and from The Other Side. I’ve been in an undercover cops meeting at a “spontaneous demonstration” against the Viet Nam War. (It’s a long story… but we were ‘accepted’ even though not really undercovers… they can’t ask to see ID after all…)

    I was surprised at the number of folks who were supposedly “in” or “leading” the demonstration who were in the huddle.

    Don’t think ANY demonstration is not being monitored, shaped, and modified by external agents, some good some not; and ALL of them “mug for the camera”. Until the internet age, you could only see the camera guys “setting up the shots” if you were there. Now we can get uploaded video showing them “planting evidence via images”.

  45. Larry Ledwick says:

    Post this here for future reference, regarding the situation Charlotte and the statue controversy.

    From twitter:

  46. Larry Ledwick says:

    Also from twitter:
    Bill Mitchell‏Verified account @mitchellvii 5 minutes ago

    While the Media was freaking out over a #FakeRacewar, did anyone notice Fed is predicting 3.7 GDP?

  47. Larry Ledwick says:

    Assuming this is an accurate representation of what happened in Charlotte, looks like some folks are wide open for either civil rights prosecution or conspiracy charges on how the state and local officials handled the protest.

    If nothing else some serious civil liability for wrongful death if anyone is willing to file the complaint.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/08/in_charlottesville_where_were_the_police.html

    As this similar pattern keeps appearing in various cities the doors for a RICO prosecution get pushed wider if the proper person can get turned to testify, as there appears to be a clear pattern of behavior and actions that were intended to chill first amendment rights, put people in physical jeopardy of injury or improper use of official authority to intentionally create a situation conducive to riot etc.

  48. Larry Ledwick says:

    The FEDs are getting convictions on the Inauguration day rioters, so precedence has been set for actual prosecutions against Antifa rioters.

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/florida-man-sentenced-prison-term-his-role-inauguration-day-riot

    Send a few of them to jail for substantial sentences and it will send a message to the rent-a-rioters that there are legal exposures and risks to their $15-25 an hour short term employment appearances.

  49. philjourdan says:

    @jim2 – the “lefties” were rooting against themselves. There was no “right wing” there. It was different left wing factions. The left will deny it, but I think this quote says it all:

    “We’re more than that, we’re fascists,” he [Thomas, a semi-spokesman for the group] said. “We believe in a strong centralized government. We believe in unity and strength among its people.”

    The left is in a civil war. It is the old guard versus the new guard. The right is sitting it out on the sidelines. You can tell who the establishment is in the Republican party by merely watching who parrots the left’s attempt to divert the attention from the real facts.

  50. Glenn999 says:

    Just read an interesting time line of the events in Charlottesville. According to the article, both groups had a permit to gather. However, at 11:40 a.m. the Virginia State Police announced to the crowd of attendees in the park that the event had been declared an unlawful assembly. This raises the question of “why not simultaneously declare the adjacent permitted demonstration as an unlawful assembly at the same time?”

    I also saw youtube videos which seem to cast doubt on the motive of the driver of the car that killed the woman. (I’ll try to find the link again if anyone is interested) The video showed the driver going slowly down the street until someone hit his car with something unidentified. At that point the driver accelerated until he struck the rear of a car that had stopped due to protesters in the streets. After the impact, his car is surrounded by angry protesters, and the driver reverses the car in high speed. Also just prior to the accident, the crowd (I think it is BLM judging by the chant), is chanting “Whose street, our street” or something to that effect. Not sure what that means, but probably not good to be there if you are not part of their crowd.

    Also, heard something funny. With this new trend of “destroying symbols that we hate”; since the Democrat Party is the party that created the KKK, it will have to be outlawed as well.

    And one last thought, regarding slavery. Who sold the original slaves? If I remember correctly, it was other black tribes and muslims from the middle east. If we want to place blame perhaps we need to follow that trail a little deeper…

  51. E.M.Smith says:

    @Glenn999:

    Ah, yes, the “rich history” of the Southern Democrats. Exploiting Blacks for personal and party gain since before the War Between The States…

    Just remember the Emancipation Proclamation was signed by a REPUBLICAN and opposed by Democrats. Thus their fervent desire to erase history.

    And yes, it was the Dominant Black Tribes and the Muslim Invaders Selling Infidels that were the supply in Africa…

    History, such a PITA to a good self serving narrative…

    And they want ME, the son of Irish Immigrants who were treated to Indentured Servitude (essentially slavery with a price tag) to pay “reparations” for what my own people never did, but suffered. Yeah, right…

  52. E.M.Smith says:

    I’d be more excited about the Assange article were it not a California Republican getting the info. I live in California right now… A California Republican is identical to a Texas Communist… IMHO…

    So as with all things Wikileaks: The only thing that maters is what gets released to the public.

  53. Another Ian says:

    “arry | August 18, 2017 3:00 AM | Reply

    Who Was Really at Fault in Charlottesville?
    By Conrad Black| August 16, 2017

    https://amgreatness.com/2017/08/16/really-fault-charlottesville/

    ———————————————————————-
    L- the most erudite analysis of the Charlottesville written so far.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/08/reader-tips-3930.html#comment-1119624

  54. cdquarles says:

    Zeke, the inch by inch takeover began shortly after the War Between the States, here; no, not the 1960s as so many think. The 60s was the takeover of the left by the ‘New’ Left, same as the old left.

  55. cdquarles says:

    @ Glenn999

    Yes, indeed. the black slaves imported into the western hemisphere’s colonies were sold by warring black tribes and by tribes practicing Islam that subjugated others. Yes, indeed, not the history told today. Only us greybeard granddads remember it now as it used to be told.

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  57. philjourdan says:

    And Charlottesville was merely the old and new factions of the left battling for the next seat at the table of the democrats.

  58. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well I am recovering from my trip up to see the total eclipse of the sun in Wyoming yesterday.
    Interesting day. I now have a personal reference for hurricane evacuations, took over 8 hours to drive about 180 miles getting home.

    Cooling effect of the eclipse was very apparent, as were some out flow winds just prior to arrival of totality.

    Seeing the corona was really cool as well, it is an impressive sight. It would have been a major event for ancient humans to experience. If you are not expecting it the early phases of the eclipse are hardly noticeable until about 60% of the sun is obscured, and some one working in the fields would just think a cloud had passed in front of the sun at first as there is a slight cooling sensation and dimming of the sunlight. Late stages of the eclipse would have been very noticible, and the onset of totality was well described by one of the group I was with as it was like someone took a dimmer switch and rapidly cranked it down.

    That sudden strong dimming would have gotten the attention of anyone out doors or indoors who depended on sun light for illumination.

    In our case the totality lasted 2 min 15 seconds which would have been plenty of time for evey one in the village to notice something was not right and rush outside to see why the sun had dimmed so strongly.

    The appearance of the corona is almost shocking in its suddenness. One second you have an intensely bright thin crescent of the solar disk visible then in a flash that brilliant sliver of the sun disappears and the corona blossoms in the sky around the black disk of the sun.

    Great experience (buy your tickets soon for viewing the 2024 track which will cross Texas and into the central eastern states)

  59. E.M.Smith says:

    I hope to be in totality in 2024. This time had too much to do.

    Instead, got to do my favorite thing and watch crescent suns appear it tree shadows as every gap in the leaves becomes a pinhole camera. Crossing you hands at 90 defrees, you can get pinholes between the fingers and make images too… great fun!

  60. Larry Ledwick says:

    It will be easy to get to for someone who has driven across Texas multiple times. The track will carry it right across the north east, they will have the same easy to drive to crowd and traffic problems we had in Wyoming, as about 100 million people will be with in easy driving distance of the 2024 track.

    http://americaneclipseusa.com/future-usa-eclipses/

    http://xjubier.free.fr/en/site_pages/solar_eclipses/TSE_20240408_pg01.html

  61. E.M.Smith says:

    Well, two things:

    1) I hope to be living down there about then. Preferably north Florida…
    2) I hope to be living about then ;-)

    and, of course, still able to do that whole driving thing… We’re planning on an RV for a couple of years, so hopefully we can just mosey out to somewhere in the Big Empty and sit a while… away from any “services” that attract crowds and getting there in advance of the herd clogging up the roads…

  62. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well from my experience here in Wyoming, cell service and internet systems simply collapsed about 2.5 hours ahead of the eclipse and stayed that way for hours. (queued up failed text messages did get eventually processed).

    When you needed it most, no one could pull up key web pages on their smart phones. A few of us anticipated this loss of connectivity and printed out key info before the fact, but the cell and internet providers in Colorado and Wyoming (and I assume all along the path) got a “free disaster load test”.

    Same thing happened for other services like gas stations, many sold out after the eclipse event as 217,000 cars decided to go home all at the same time.

    It took me 8.5 hours to go 180 miles, and almost all turnoffs, rest areas etc. were clogged or closed.

  63. E.M.Smith says:

    Thus the RV… park it, make dinner, and watch a dvd…

    FWIW, I had the NASA channel running on Pluto TV. As the event drew closer, it started getting dodgy with pauses and dropouts. Eventually resorted to the satellite dish for NASA via CSPAN… eventually Pluto came back as the path of totality left California for the Big Empty East of here… On the CSPAN Nasa feed they said they accounted for 87% of ALL Federal Govt web traffic at that time and were THE biggest audience for Nasa TV since inception (or something like that) at over 4 million view connections.

    I think internet TV got a stress test too ;-)

    Direct channels, like CBS, were working fine on the ROKU, so i think it was Pluto who hit the top of their relay a signal bandwidth… NASA needs to get a direct ROKU app ;-0

  64. tom0mason says:

    @cdquarles 18 August 2017 at 5:22 pm
    WRT slavery —
    Indeed and as a modern version in microcosm just regard the social structure of Mauritania —
    http://allafrica.com/stories/201310170500.html

  65. philjourdan says:

    @E.M. – Yea, #2 is the key. :-)

  66. tom0mason says:

    @Larry Ledwick 23 August 2017 at 3:27 am and
    @E.M.Smith 23 August 2017 at 4:45 am

    WRT internet services.
    And that is the rub with internet ‘broadcasting’. It is not true ‘broadcasting’ but a modified point to point scheme — an array of providers supplying channels of services to each individual user. A direct connection from many end users to the provider’s chain of equipment.
    In real broadcasting the providers just radiates a channel of service(s) to all that have the equipment to decode his channel. A direct connection from one provider’s equipment to many users.

  67. p.g.sharrow says:

    @EMSmith; This time of the year in California is the best time to do outside work. I find that working in the garden is the best place to do thinking about future projects. Busy hands on auto pilot and no media distractions ;-) temperature is cooling and we still have a couple of dry months left before the rainy season begins. Winter garden needs to be growing, spring garden needs harvest.
    My gardens are showing the effects of neglect as I concentrate on building a real roof over the work shop before the first heavy rains begin.

    Put that keyboard down and get your fingers dirty and your hide sunburned 8-) maybe a wave offering to celebrate the season changes as an altitude adjustment…pg

  68. Larry Ledwick says:

    I started thinking about perhaps getting a satellite TV setup for on the road. I bought a month of pay as you go T-Mobil before I left for Wyoming but I never could get a usable connection up there, so that was a total waste of time effort and money. It worked well for me out at Bonneville but even there in line of site to their relay tower I had to be careful where I set up to get a good signal.

    Anyone have experience with satellite internet services like RV folks use?

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  70. E.M.Smith says:

    @P.G.:

    Well…. I guess I didn’t mention I’ve got a nice bit of Bushmills to “sweeten” the coffee ;-)
    (Wave Wave WAVE!!!)

    @Larry:

    I’ve got a T-Mobile “month to month” 3G (or maybe 4G) portable router in the drawer. Got it when AT&T could not keep my DSL line running. Worked fine here. At some point I’m going to need to test it for video speed… In April my AT&T (unexpected… there were ‘upselling’ their replacement for DSL when, surprise, my DSL broke and they couldn’t fix it in several days… so eventually I gave in and too Uverse? something like that… which bundled the DirecTV I’d had for decades with my internet I had for years YET still got a ‘new account 2 year lock in’… ) account expires. I’d rather not renew the Internet portion and I’m NOT going to renew DirecTV (but wonder if JUST continuing the internet part will cause ANOTHER 2 year lock in on it…)

    So I need to test TV over T-Mobile and find out if it is good enough, or what other provider of internet is available without a lockin.

    LOTS of folks in RV parks have satellite dish TV and network. I loved it (TV only), right up until AT&T bought it… The general problems I’ve heard of are:

    1) Uplink is very slow compared to downlink and sometimes sporadic.
    2) Latency can be long (24000 miles worth…)
    3) You MUST keep the dish aligned. Not a problem at a fixed base (my antenna has been stable for decades now) but when mobile, you get to do an alignment each move.

    Oh, and DO watch out for the AT&T Obligatory 2 Year Lockup / Penalty clauses…

    Might want to do a survey of where you expect to be and find out what coverage is.
    http://sensorly.com/map/4G/US/USA/T-Mobile/lte_310260#|coverage

  71. cdquarles says:

    I made a little trip into Tennessee for this one, which was much closer to me than the March, 1970 one. Yes, indeed, a total solar eclipse is quite a sight. I highly recommend everyone go see one in person when the opportunity arises. The trip to Oak Ridge, TN wasn’t bad at all. The trip back, though, that was a doozy. It wasn’t as bad as a hurricane evacuation. It was only bad from just outside Knoxville to Chattanooga. It was about as bad as the traffic gets after a NASCAR event or a SEC football game.

  72. E.M.Smith says:

    @CDQuarles:

    Thus the advantage of a good long slow meal at a roadside diner…. Don’t fight the crowd. “Be where they ain’t” !

  73. Larry Ledwick says:

    That’s what I planned to do, I was going to head just down the road and get something to eat but all exits were closed and Gurnsey was a zoo so I just kept going. I should have followed my first instinct and just taken a long nap in the van and left a few hours later. I probably would have gotten home about the same time if I had napped for 3 hours.

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