Unacknowledged – Netflix and IMDB, Review

I started today with morning coffee at Oh-Dark-Thirty and needed something a bit mindless while I waited for “The machine that turns caffeine into programming” to wake up and get rolling. I decided to let it idle up to speed on Netflix watching “whatever”. On the “trending” list, I think, maybe, I saw a bit of what I expected to be fluff about UFOs and Alien Visitation. Just the thing, I thought. Requires I keep skepticism engaged, but doesn’t need too much actual thinking…

The show in question is titled “Unacknowledged”. Here’s the IMDB summary of it:



“Unacknowledged” focuses on the historic files of the Disclosure Project and how UFO secrecy has been ruthlessly enforced-and why. The best evidence for extraterrestrial contact, dating back decades, is presented with direct top-secret witness testimony, documents and UFO footage, 80% of which has never been revealed anywhere else. The behind-the-scenes research and high-level meetings convened by Dr. Steven Greer will expose the degree of illegal, covert operations at the core of UFO secrecy. From briefings with the CIA Director, top Pentagon Generals and Admirals, to the briefing of President Obama via senior advisor John Podesta, chairman of the Hillary Clinton Campaign, we take the viewer behind the veil of secrecy and into the corridors of real power where the UFO secrets reside. The viewer will learn that a silent coup d’état has occurred dating back to the 1950s and that the Congress, the President and other world leaders have been sidelined by criminal elements within the military-industrial-financial complex.

Here is the web site of the folks who made it. The Disclosure Project


The Disclosure Project is a research project working to fully disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems. We have over 500 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret.

I watched it without additional payment on Netflix. The IMDB site has a tie-in with Amazon where they link to a pay-per-view at $3.99 but when you get to the link it actually wants $4.99 to watch. IMHO not worth it. Better to buy a month of Netflix and use the left over 30.375 days at $4 more to watch all sorts of other stuff…


OK, enough pointers and background. My oppinion:

It is a fascinating show for 2 major reasons.

1) It is very well done, presenting all sorts of very believable quotes (often with video) from folks in positions of authority who ought to know, that confirm the existence of extraterrestrial intelligent visitation of earth and “UFOs”. They have example documents from various government agencies and video interviews with folks who ought to know. Even President Of The USA clips.

2) It weaves a picture of conspiracy and intrigue that ranges over just about every possible angle. From JFK and Marlyn Monroe to Tesla to Zero Point Energy then on to the Military Industrial Complex and CIA control of the media. (Plus a whole lot more).

It makes it very had to decide just where they have gone off the rails, how much is firmly tongue planted in cheek, and what might actually be true. If a “put up job”, it is incredibly well done.

Yet I’ve been faced with a literally Crazy Person seeing things that were not there and they too did an “incredibly good job”. Complete with sweating and emotional angst that was quite real. I joined them in their concern for about 20 minutes until it was pointed out to me that the car they said contained the folks following them had been parked across the street for about 3 days… (Hey, it was late at night, I was about 19, this was a black guy in a town known to have white trash who abused blacks, his story fit the reality… but was all in his head.)

That experience caused me to add a filter that says “Even if they clearly 100% believe it, do not accept that as validation.” Part of why today I don’t buy into things like Global Warming just because someone emotes strongly about it… Both appeal to authority and appeal to emotion are marked as “BOGUS Reasoning” for me.

So I’m NOT endorsing the validity of the film. As I’ve pointed out before, in a world where CGI (Computer Generated Imagery) can create full motion live film Klingons and Vulcans complete with their space fleet, it takes much much more than a bit of video to prove anything. Even apparent documents need a full forensic evaluation including lab work to verify they are not fraudulent (and even that isn’t easy).

Yet the film is fun, and makes “connections” (real or imagined) that are interesting speculation. The basic thesis is that post W.W.II a strong secret service effort was put in place to control just what happened in the world. Emphasis on control of nuclear issues and then with the capture of some alien tech and bodies, to limit and control the impact of that in the economic and political arenas.

Folks are interviewed (with appropriate job titles shown so they ought to know) who state things like the CIA having carefully placed agents in all the major media outlets and hubs to shape the narrative and suppress stories they don’t like. (Virtually a given, really, at this point). Explains some of the Fake News angle (and labels it as Fake News). Covers the fact that Presidents (POTUS) have asked for information and been denied, as have folks who are in nominal control in Congress and Agency heads. Essentially demonstrating that the Black Budget arena is seriously beyond any real control by the formal structure of Government. It also wanders into the arena of Character Assassination (and real assassination if that doesn’t work) and suppression of various technology that isn’t fully controlled for the benefit of the elite.

There is clearly much truth in some of it. For example, the video of folks like Carl Sagan starting out pro ET as likely then turning anti-ET later (and gaining fame and fortune in the process). Quotes from famous folks stating that ET is real, and the history of their character assassination after that are easily validated or repudiated, so unlikely to be bogus. Some statements I remember from when they were made, 1/2 Century ago or even more recent, so attempts to erase that history would be very difficult. Jimmy Carter saying he had seen a UFO. Ronald Reagan saying an ET Threat would unite the world.

Yet some of it is clearly in the Crazy Talk category. The famous water carburetor driven car. (Water as LENR fuel I can go for, but carburetted into an engine is not going to give you free energy…) Then there is the film of an “alien body” where they have a “body” that looks like Ice Man in that it is basically a skeleton with a thin brownish coating on it. Unfortunately, it is about 9 inches long… and the bones have a remarkable correlation to a human skeleton (same appendage bones and ribs and pelvis and…) The skull is funny shaped, though. The odds of separate evolution resulting in the same types and placement of bones is essentially zero. (No, I didn’t count the ribs, fingers, or others things easily changed. It’s the overall look of it that’s too human. Clearly either a small human skeleton with deformities or a fake).

There was also some creative editing where a person talking about False Flag operations confirms they happen (well duh!) but in between the discussion of False Flags and the “Yes we’ve done it” is a bit of another line about something NOT false flag ( I forget exactly what it was as I was busy going but But BUT!!!! but it was something like planning to start an ET war false flag or destruction of witnesses or something similarly unrelated). The net effect being to transfer the “Yes we do False Flags” to being “Yes we do that other thing”. So watch for that.

Overall, worth watching. Just keep your skeptics skull cap as close as your tinfoil hat through the whole thing…

What Do I Believe?

It is mathematically and chemically impossible that we are the only life in the universe (heck, in the galaxy) and some of that life MUST evolve intelligence. We are not alone by a very long shot. Some of them will be dumber than us and still pre-contact. Some will be a Billion years older than us, and likely see us as we see fire ants: Organized, brutish, a threat, and pretty dumb. In between will be some who are about our equals.

Some, almost certainly, will have visited our planet at some point in time. Be that a million years ago or last week, TBD. Heck, we might even the the equivalent of someone’s Ph.D. thesis (“let’s introduce limited intelligence into the primitives apes on this planet and watch how it evolves”…) There simply is no way to know given our present state of understanding. My best guess is that it started a few thousand years ago but that we “got their attention” as more than a study of primitive peoples in their native habitat when we suddenly blew off a few nuclear bombs. (That being a long leap ahead of where we were thought to be at the time). So we’ve likely had much more “intervention” since the W.W.II time frame.

However: I also believe that the speed of light is a very real limit. This means that life from other Galaxies will not be visiting as it is just too much lost time to send any information back to a home that would no longer exists. Even inside our own Galaxy, we’ve got 100,000 light year problem. So with the assumption of “free energy” and control of gravity one could get essentially free acceleration, but that runs into mass increase at close to speed of light… so you MIGHT be able to get to, say, 75% of C (speed of light). That still leaves you with a 6 year problem to near stars and a couple of decades to a “few”. Any visits will be from local stars with crew dedicated to a long expedition. Yet given the number of stars with planets, it’s almost certain there would be some life inside a 100 light year sphere, IMHO. So most likely it’s just the “neighbors” checking us out.

Now I could be wrong. Far be it from me to say what tech a Billion year old species might have. Maybe they do break the C barrier. But very unlikely.

So that’s my view of things. Small expeditions from a few light years away, with very advanced tech, just studying us and maybe with a few interventions (like, oh, a miracle or two and a set of rules to live by with the pronouncements from a flame-speaker built to look like a bush…). Then a few nukes get set off and all hell breaks loose. The monkeys have rockets and nukes!!! Oh God!

Would such a people “lean on” our society to shape it against expansionism? Motivate us to stay in our reservation? Abandon war like ways? Institute “Global Governance” (under their gentle guidance…) and with a secret agency method? It is what I would do, were I them. Herd the cattle more effectively and train the wolves to be guard dogs… (Oh, wait, we already did that…)

To the extent I found support for my world view in the Unacknowledged video, I found it believable.

(Do I really need to adorn that with a /sarc; tag to flag it as tongue in cheek self deprecation self awareness?)

To the extent is has a Vast Both Wings Conspiracy Theory in it, along with artful dodgy editing and unverifiable “witnesses”, well, it’s still fun entertainment. Things like the indirect assertion Tesla had discovered how to harness zero point energy when the reality is more that he had discovered wireless transmission of EMF but had not realized the horrid inefficiencies in it. He WAS hooked up to the local power generation facilities…

So fun to watch. Well made. Wide ranging and fascinating “connect the dots” for all sorts of secret dots (some of which even exist…)

Just don’t swallow it all without being selective.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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44 Responses to Unacknowledged – Netflix and IMDB, Review

  1. Glenn999 says:

    Quit being a denier EM
    Space Aliens are real.

  2. pouncer says:

    If you can find it, check out a wonderful science fiction short story called “Saucer Summer” by Ted Sturgeon. IFF aliens who did not want to be known to the human cultures of Earth were detected, how would they go about getting themselves more-or-less UN-detected?

  3. u.k.(us) says:

    Really ?, I’m trying to talk my friend down.
    I keep telling him that there is a very thin line between ESP, and living under the bridge near the racetrack.

  4. Chris in Calgary says:

    Last month I commented to the effect that humans would take a long, long time (if ever) to get to Mars. Let me cover the flip side here.

    Most of the “evidence” that has been paraded for UFOs is pure bunkum. There’s less than 1% of it that remains in the realm of the plausible. Given the level of misinformation out there, it’s really hard to determine if that info is credible — though Luis Elizondo’s statements seem to increase those odds.

    Regarding high-technology aliens, I think that given the vast possibilities of, and miniscule knowledge we have about: quantum mechanics, dark matter, dark energy, and various theories of the multiverse and branes, there’s no way to discount that a species that has managed to survived technology for tens or hundreds of thousands of years, might have developed the technology to travel quickly between stars or galaxies.

    Given the incredible technology that must be available for that to happen, it’s almost certain that any aliens who get here would be able to trick us into believing anything they chose to, and/or trivially wipe us out if they so chose. If such a species chose to reveal itself, we could assume to know nothing except that some new entity exists. We would be at such a disadvantage that we’d have to presume on their goodwill (or disinterest).

  5. p.g.sharrow says:

    Quite a number of years ago a high placed U.S.Airforce general said when asked by a member of congress, “UFOs were real and of no threat to us” Logic would also demonstrate that .Other world visitors , Aliens, would be of no real danger to us as they would so few and far from home. 500,000 years of human history and no conquest of very backwards humans. So why would they become aggressive when when humans become fairly advanced?
    More logical to me that they are waiting for us to become civilized toward others before making themselves generally known.
    There is a lot of myth that Aliens set the early humans feet on the road to civilization.
    Space is a VERY LARGE place with few habitable places to visit. Even at trans light speeds years would pass between land falls.
    Advanced Civilized beings would not subjugate other beings. It is not an Ethical thing to do for any reason.
    Finally there is no profit in it, Life for any individual would be too short to benefit from any conquest for the wealth and power to be gained. …pg

  6. E.M.Smith says:


    Once you are a space dwelling race, dumping your children into the prison of a gravity well has little attraction. IMHO, any really advanced species will be found in O’Neal cylinders or similar in orbit of various stars and planets. Every other option is a bit daft in comparison. At least until gigawatt power is available for free. You spend $10,000/lb dropping into the Earth’s gravity well, that you pay to exit. Maybe once antigravity works that will change…

    @Chris in C:

    Could be. Maybe we’ll find out some day…

    @UK (us):

    There’s a bridge near the racetrack? So why am I under the one near the bay?


    I’ll look for it!


    My Mum was an alien. Really! Had to register with the government each year and everything. Just not a space alien… I still want to go to space and return to a foreign land so I can legitimately claim to be a space alien…

    So yes, I know aliens are real!

  7. p.g.sharrow says:

    As long as we depend on Roman Candle propulsion humans will not be able to actually move into space. It is far too dangerous and expensive for real space travel.
    “Anti-gravity” requires about 60 hp per 1000 pounds to be lifted. the same as an aircraft.
    The use of “armstrong” rocket engineering to force inertia/mass into orbit is ridicules.

    The vast amount of “UFO” information reported includes observations of credible professional witnesses. Pictures of effects give clues. Form follows function, effects are caused by utilization of natural forces. These things are propelled by EMF effects. Reverse engineering is needed. Hence my 30 year investigation and studies, reexaminations of all known physics phenomena as well as redoing theories that don’t fit the facts.

    In my opinion mass/inertia and gravity are EMF manifestations caused by mater, not internal to mater…pg

  8. llanfar says:

    I am not yet in the 100% ET is real camp, but I have gotten a lot closer in the last few months. The video 9/11 Breakthrough Energy Technology | Dr Judy Wood (2:24:57 – long, but very interesting) coupled with trillions of unaccounted $ place me pretty strong in the advanced tech camp, of which ETs could be involved.

  9. E.M.Smith says:

    Well, I’m certain ETs are real. Just don’t know if they have ever come to our little rock in an uninteresting backwater of the Milky Way… but to the extent C is a limit, they would come here because they are near here and there are only a few places they CAN visit…

    You are further ahead on this than I am. In my playing catch-up. I’ve come to similar conclusions.

    Since everything eventually ends up as photons if you whack it enough, IMHO that makes the photon the fundamental unit. (And photons are an EMF manifestation…)

    I think that photons are linear manifestations of conservation of energy and momentum and when that C low mass turns into angular momentum instead it becomes particles with mass and gravity and inertia. (Think of trying to move a gyro and how it can fight you in some directions) But when rotating they like to be near each other and the photons end up condensed as “stuff”. (And all the various particle physics and chemistry are just describing the details of how the various groupings of “stuff” interact).

    We can (barely) do a few tricks with turning photons into stuff and stuff into photons. So with some electrical stimulation we can get photons to emit from a wire (radio) or with more as light. Going the other way we can turn light into heat or electrical potential (so absorbed into “stuff” with a side effect). IMHO that demonstrates the process and the nature of things. We’re just too primitive to have full control of it. yet. Fissions and fusion give off more photons (gammas) and heat (IR photons) and we can also do a bit of that. LENR is showing how to kick a tiny bit of IR out of fusion in a solid. The “left overs” of merging bits as they become a new stable blob.

    The question is how to better control those processes so we are not just lapping up table scraps that fall to the floor, but actually doing the cooking…

    I suspect it can be done with magneto-electrics, but have no evidence. (Well, a tiny bit of evidence in the existence of radio devices and electric motors and photoelectrics)

    FWIW, in my stack of links waiting to become postings is one on why hot water freezes faster than cold water. They think it has to do with kurtosis in thermo, while I think it has to do with the spin state of the atoms… maybe both. so heat of fusion depends not only on measured temperature but on heating history changing kurtosis and maybe spin state as well… Has all sorts of implications for “settled science”… I’ll see if I can get that one up today sometime.

  10. Brian says:

    We all concede that statistically, life, even sapient life, has evolved somewhere else in the Universe while we did the same here in our little corner of the Milky Way. Regardless, we are effectively alone, and will always be alone, due to the distance factor you discuss. Of course, there’s also the time element to consider. which no one ever mentions. One million years is a micro-tick compared to the life of the Universe. How many sapient species evolved, explored their region of stars for 10,000 years, then died off like Kryptonians while humans were working their way out of the caves? Some “True Believer” must work out the odds of a complex combination of factors. First, how many planets within say, 500 light years, can evolve life? The sapient species must evolve near enough to Earth to discover us in a reasonable time frame. Second, their species must evolve at exactly the right moment relative to human evolution. Third, they must explore nearby space at exactly the right moment to discover us before we die out or blow ourselves up.

  11. Glenn999 says:

    Here’s a good one:

  12. p.g.sharrow says:

    Just as Einstein began his studies on gravity with the examination of light, I also turned in that direction with my own study of mass/inertia effects and possible cause.
    The “standard model” has resulted in an impasse in that direction. Just as Dr.Einstein spent most of his life attempting a work around. Modern science is also blocked. Time to throw out the Standard Model and start over.

    Just how can an atom create the effect of mass/inertia and gravity?
    Why does everything seem to exhibit mass/inertia and be effected by gravity?
    How can light exhibit characteristics of both wave and particle?
    It all boiled down to the question, Just what is light?
    Back in the days when F&P cold fusion was all the rage I read a paper in, IIRC, Scientific American, by a researcher at Lawrence Rad.labs.Livermore on his examination of over 10,000 “Track” photos. His conclusion was that subatomic particles were the same thing with different detector signatures. Photons, Electrons, Neutrinos etc. In the track photos they seemed to be interchangeable as in collisions one would change to another, Like in billiards, the ball would change colors with each collision from the point of view of the detectors. Spin, conservation of energy, charge in motion.
    So back to the Photon-Light, a wave /particle traveling thru deep space across billions of light years!. How can this be? How can any THING travel across the universe of nearly nothing without loss of energy? Answer… It Can’t. Something else is at work here. Something that almost perfectly conserves energy and information over the vast long trip.
    Back at the beginning of the 20th century researchers in light travel thru various materials determined that the “vacuum” of space caused light to travel in a manner similar to an atmosphere compressed to 10,000psi, What could this non-mater compressed to this great non-pressure be? Dark mater/Dark energy? something that represents 97% of the effect of mass/inertia of the Universe. …Aether, units of charge in chaos, Photons without direction, the fundamental thing, that is not there until it is in detectable motion, charge in motion that carries information of it’s origin. Only the information travels in an EMF wave thru the medium. A wave in particle form.

    As Electricians we are taught that every Electron in the universe feels the actions of every other Electron, the bases of EMF (Electro – Motive – Force) fields. Charge and materials in motion create EMF fields. EMF fields in motion move charge and materials. Accelerations of one cause accelerations of the others. Hmmm….. the effect of mass/inertia is a resistance to change in motion. Gravity is a feature of acceleration in the direction of Mater. Maybe mass/inertia and gravity are connected to EMF.
    Back in the early days of particle and atomic investigations, particle accelerators utilized Static charge generators to create warpage of the atomic Dielectric to cause accelerations. Later Electro- magnetic s became the fashion. Dielectric warpage is the displacement of the center of mass from the center of Being. In electronics this is the bases of capacitance. The attempt of the Being to center it’self to it’s center of mass causes accelerations. In a flat plate condenser this results in movement, acceleration, in the direction of the positive plate during the application of the charge. Whether by charge, magnetics or by gravity the dielectric warpage is the same at the atomic level.

    @EMSmith; your description of atomic AM, angular momentum, internal spin as the basic cause of mass/inertia just as in gyroscopic actions is spot on. I look at it as a rifle bullet traveling in 3 dimensions, spin, wobble, and travel. Each adding information and mass/inertia to our particle…pg

  13. philjourdan says:

    I want to believe in alien visits – because that means FTL has been conquered. But I have yet to see enough evidence to convince me that we have been here.

    But I will let you know if they prove me wrong (they – aliens, not other folks).

  14. p.g.sharrow says:

    @Brian; if UFO lore is to be believed, 5 space faring races have visited earth in the past few hundred years.
    So we are not alone within visit-able distances. We only need to develop a useful drive…pg

  15. Larry Ledwick says:

    I am of the statistically probable camp. It appears life naturally will evolve in any suitable environment. Recent exoplanet search results show that on average every star we can see has more than one planet, which put the number of potential hosts for life well up in the not far from infinite category.

    That leads me to conclude that any solar system that survives more than a couple billion years and has a “Goldilocks planet” likely will sometime in the time before the parent star dies evolve life.

    Your issue with life time of the civilization is implied in the drake equation;
    But I agree it needs one more factor the probability that their advanced communicating stage over laps our advanced communicating stage.

    As far as faster than light travel I am not so sure it is impossible.
    There are lots of formulas which go to infinity on paper but in the real world other issues prevent that ever happening.

    For example tension in a cable loaded by a point load in the middle of its span. Tension in the cable theoretically goes to infinity mathematically as tension varies as the tangent angle between the ends of the cable and the true straight line vector between the anchors. If the line is stretched very tight so it is approximately perfectly straight even its own weight will cause in theory infinite stress in the cable.

    That however never happens because no cable is infinitely strong and stiff and no anchors exist which will not yield slightly to the loads involved.

    In real world the stresses do get very high but at some point the strength of materials over comes the theoretical and provides strain relief for the system.

    What if the speed limit of C is similar?
    What if at some significant value of C some other effect begins to dominate and the cost of acceleration drop drastically, like pushing a soap box racer up and over a hill once you crest the hill forward motion suddenly becomes nearly free as you descend the other side.

    The other possibility is that the C limit is only an illusion from our frame of reference and there is a way to side step it entirely by changing frames of reference (dimension jumps)

    Like the sound barrier it is not a solid wall but rather a technical hurdle to be surmounted.

    On the other hand even if that were true there are other issues like blue shift shortening of the electromagnetic radiation in the forward direction turning it into very hard and penetrating radiation from the frame of reference of the occupants of the ship.

    I don’t say it is certain but I do accept it is highly probable that other advanced life exists in the universe (I take as a near certainty that other simple life exists).

  16. Soronel Haetir says:

    If further acceleration became less expensive (in energy terms) as c were approached I would expect something to have shown up in the particle accelerators by now. Every accelerator experiment I have ever seen referenced has been very clear on the ever-increasing cost of additional acceleration.

  17. u.k.(us) says:

    @ E.M.,
    Is C really a hard limit ?
    Has anyone tried to push it ?, let alone get near it.

  18. Larry Ledwick says:

    @ E.M.,
    Is C really a hard limit ?
    Has anyone tried to push it ?, let alone get near it.

    Outside of the radiation physics domain we are no where near C, the fastest human made physical object last I heard was the space craft Juno at 165,000 mph (265,000 km/h) or 48.8333 miles per second – given that C is 186,282 miles/sec that puts Juno at 0.000262147 C

    Voyager is traveling at about 35,000 mph
    Pioneer 10 launch velocity 32,400 mph (about 52,000 km/h) – speed after gravity sling shots 82,000 mph
    New horizons probe launch velocity 36,000 mph (almost 58,000 km/h)
    Pioneer 11 25,450 mph

    Solar probe plus (aka Parker Solar Probe) which is scheduled to launch in 2018 Is anticipated to achieve heliocentric speeds of about 450,000 mph (724,000 km/h) as it makes its close approach of the sun and penetrates its out atmosphere.


  19. p.g.sharrow says:

    Ah…Ha! logic……. The seeming ability of light to traverse the Universe undiminished tells me that you can accelerate to speeds that exceed “the speed of light”. The energy needed for acceleration is accumulative with little loss. You would be packing a hell of amount of relative mass/inertia though. Just need a continuous power source to create the warp bubble and make it accelerate. Create a pull in front and the rebound in the rear will push, almost loss free or light wave/particle photons could not travel billions of light years across the Universe undiminished…pg

  20. pg – who says light in fact does travel through the cosmos undiminished? The Hubble constant tells you that the further away a star is, the more it is red-shifted. This could either be because the Universe is expanding, or because light loses energy in travelling. We can’t really tell. We assume that the speed of light is constant across the universe and across all time, but that is an assumption as well.

    Though I see that the increase in inertial and gravitational mass with velocity producing a very-secure barrier to accelerating anything up to the speed of light, where its mass would become infinite and the universe would be swallowed into that black hole (at which point there would be no movement and so maybe things would bounce back… logical problems with infinities), quantum theory only states our location as a probability function. As such, though we are sitting in front of a desk here on Earth, we also have a calculable probability of being somewhere else (maybe Proxima Centauri?) at the same instant. Can we change those probabilities and teleport *somewhere else* even though we can’t accelerate and decelerate to get there? After all, at a calculable probability we are already there, and we just need to raise that probability to almost 100% to be there instead of here. I can’t work out how to do it, but maybe someone will be able to.

    Since the EM field can absorb momentum, and since disturbances in the EM field travel at the speed of light, then there is obviously a way to drive some space-craft using high-frequency AC, coils, and driving electronics that produce the right sequence of forces in the coils. Whether this is practically-useful or costs too much in electrical power for the thrust produced, I don’t yet know. It needs some careful calculation of phases and wave-speed in the coils, and a pretty large current to work, but looks almost-possible because there is that time-lapse between the current in one part of the coil and the effect on another part of it. The disk may yet fly, but you may need to run at a higher frequency and use square waves not sine-waves.

  21. jim2 says:

    LL said: I am of the statistically probable camp. It appears life naturally will evolve in any suitable environment.

    OK, that covers the creation part. What are the odds of a civilization being annihilated? You have to take into account rouge asteroids, comets, planets (e.g. ejected from a globular cluster) roaming space, stars, black holes, supernova explosions, or self destruction. Surely, the probability of annihilation is greater than zero.

  22. Larry Ledwick says:

    The Drake equation does take that into account. It is implied in the term L
    L, the length of time over which such civilizations release detectable signals.

    This is essentially a measure of how long they exist as advanced societies if we assume that all advanced societies emit detectable signals. Though it is possible that at some point of advance advanced civilizations go “stealth” to primitive advanced civilizations like us who have not progressed beyond radio signals and communicating via electromagnetic signals.

    If that is the case (perhaps some sort of subspace type communication which we currently are completely ignorant of and have not way to detect), or due to interactions with predatory space faring advanced species, they learn not to announce their presence to the universe by broadcasting in the electromagnetic RF spectrum just like we learn not to hang red meat in our camp in bear country.

  23. Larry Ledwick says:

    Speaking of things happening that we are ignorant of – a moment to consider this item, and how this program was completely black for so long.

  24. jim2 says:

    Our galaxy is part of the Laniakea Supercluster which is about 520 million light-years across. The mass of the supercluster is estimated at 100 million billion times that of the Sun. So, for a rough estimate of the number of stars, let’s assume they are as massive as the Sun, yielding 100 million billion stars. If civilizations are easy to get started, there should have been quite a few ‘locally’ in the last few billion years and we should have many in our local supercluster. Given the relatively small size of it, it seems we would have detected some EM emissions by now. We haven’t AFAIK, so I’m skeptical that there are very many alien civilizations in our part of the universe. That makes me believe it unlikely they have traveled here.

  25. p.g.sharrow says:

    jim2; that would assume all civilizations utilize RF communication systems such as we do on Earth…pg

  26. Glenn999 says:

    I noticed that no one commented on the Tucker Carlson interview video.
    I thought it was interesting, especially these parts:

    What would you estimate the speed
    Well above SuperSonic, like a bullet out of a gun

    So, what you know about aerodynamics, mechanics, pysics, should this be possible what you saw
    Not with the technology that we have today, not at all

    Is there anything you know of with this kind of behavior
    what would be the effect on the human
    they don’t think the human body could handle those forces

    we believe it was something not from this world

    presumably you expressed that belief to your superiors
    well actually, we caught a lot of grief getting back to the boat
    and it got passed off as an event nobody could explain

    Now keep in mind, they had been tracking these for two weeks prior to us seeing it
    and this was the first time that manned airplanes had been airborne when the objects appeared

  27. jim2 says:

    @p.g.sharrow says: 7 January 2018 at 10:59 pm.

    Yes, I assume physics there is the same as here.

    Unless you believe they spontaneously came into being knowing all of physics, they would likely have taken the same path to physical knowledge as we. So, even if each civilization emitted EMR for a few hundred years, there would be many signals for us to detect.

  28. Larry Ledwick says:

    they would likely have taken the same path to physical knowledge as we.

    That makes the assumption that their environment was as favorable to RF communication as our own as far as development of radio technology.

    You have to consider the “road not taken” problem, that their local conditions may have forced them down a development path that we ignored, are unaware of because the genius who discovered it got hit by a bus on his way to the patent office, or they might have some cultural or physiological reason to avoid RF research and developing radio and related technologies.

    What if their world is very radio noisy? so much so, that early stages of radio like the simple crystal radio would have been completely overwhelmed by static from natural radio noise – to the point that they considered it a dead end technology and went down some other path.

    What if they have some sort of natural telepathic ability? It is a common staple in science fiction that telepathic communication would drastically change many of our development paths.

    Even with the same physics there are local conditions and physiological or cultural reasons that they might go down another branch at key decision points. You can assume that it is likely that they would follow similar development arcs but you also have to acknowledge that there might be other possibilities we do not even know about because we never needed to look for an alternative to RF and electromagnetic communication.

    African tribes accomplished long range high speed communications with audible signaling via drums, American Indians did the same with signal fires and smoke signals. European armies used flags trumpets and signal lights for battlefield communications. (one if by land two if by sea) China is supposed to have developed an early warning system based on signal fires and watch stations along the great wall to warn of Mongol invasions and signal for reinforcements.

    Even as late as the first world war, communication was still being done by carrier pigeon. For their social systems that was good enough at the time, and there was little pressure to move on beyond those technologies to satisfy their urgent needs.

    If Francis Stanley had not died in 1918 and Henry Ford had not gotten the support of Edison to experiment with gasoline engines – or had he been killed while racing his 26 hp car in 1901, or the electric starter motor had not been developed for the internal combustion engine, the record setting Stanley Steamer might have become the dominant automobile design and mode of propulsion, completely changing industrial development in automobiles.

  29. E.M.Smith says:


    We are already moving to spread spectrum frequency hopping methods that are indistinguishable from static without a matching receiver and the latest bit of interesting tech for cell systems makes a “synthetic antenna” near each local device via computing what the combined signal from all of them would look like … so your cell phone only “sees” a little local “base station antenna” right next to it. Again, looking a lot like noise if you don’t know what’s going on.

    Now, mix that with a billion signals sharing the same limited bandwidth as seen from space, season with a nice chunk of inverse square law, and figure out how to hear that flea powered sneeze in a hurricane 20 light years of inverse square away… We can barely see whole planets worth of EMF (light, IR, whatever) when illuminated at kW/m^2 of the whole thing; think what 100 W total would look like …

    IMHO, radio to UHF EMF is about the worst way to look for a civilization. Tight beans of laser light would be used in space, but then you have to be on the beam to see it…

    Just for grins, compute the local W gathered on a 1000 sq meter dish when the signal source is a circular radiating antenna suffering inverse square losses, is 100 kW, and is 20 light years away… then tell me how you would detect it. Bear in mind that we can only just barely communicate with Voyager using some of the largest dishes on Earth, and it is only now leaving the solar influence area…


    Yeah, It is an interesting one!


    Also realize that even given the idea of taking the Radio path, we are presently leaving it behind. Vast amounts of communication now flow via light over glass fibers. Broadcast TV is only surviving due to a lot of money pushing ways to keep it alive. Radio only lasting due to car radios (and even that is suffering from satellite based alternatives where the signal is directed down toward the ground…

    So the lifespan of KW to MW scale “broadcasting” looks ot be about 100 years, maybe 200. What is that in a span of a billion?

    While the real killer is the inverse square law, that tiny time blip for strong signals is going to bit hard too. Once the civilization has moved to 10 W signals on a focused bean to the satellites, and with return signals directed at spherical land (so spread out on reflection back to space) you don’t have much signal to look for in the first place and it rapidly decays to effectively zero signal strength with distance.

  30. E.M.Smith says:

    An interesting example of the inverse square bite:


    Certainly our own rogue radio signals have been permeating space for almost a century, but they’re weak, dropping off with distance following the inverse square law; the SETI Institute’s Seth Shostak has previously pointed out that we couldn’t even detect our radio signals with our current equipment at the nearest star, Proxima Centauri, 4.2 light-years away. What hope then do we have of detecting E.T.’s version of tacky reality television and soap operas?

    It depends on whom we ask. “For phase one of the SKA, we can detect an airport radar at 50 to 60 light-years,” van Haarlam said.

    Note that the Square Kilometer Array is a new gizmo, not the present kit… and it only lets us see strong radars (barely) at 50 light years. Not a lot of stars inside 50 light years.

    Now move out to 200 light years… and remember it’s an inverse SQUARE of distance…

    Sure, with a few hundred square KM of antenna, we could listen to our local neighbors… but not the center of the galaxy nor even one spiral arm over…

  31. llanfar says:

    @E.M. I would argue that cars are fast moving to wi-fi streaming. Newer cars are Bluetooth-equipped… and mobile phones are penetrating the world. Even my old 2004 Saturn (which I donated last year after a ruptured brake line coming up to a stop light…pumping the brakes and downshifting saved me, and I didn’t need any coffee the rest of the day) had Bluetooth thanks to an aftermarket unit I added 6 years ago.

  32. jim2 says:

    This article estimates signals could be received about 1/5 of the galaxy away from us, or about 20,000 lightyears.

    Click to access 0707.0011.pdf

  33. p.g.sharrow says:

    @jim2; I see nothing in that paper that examines possible signal strength. mil-watts, kilowatts, megawatts in their conclusion of detectablity over 1/5th of the galaxy. Just a lot of algebraic terms of assumptions. I believe this is what is called “Theoretical Science”…pg

  34. jim2 says:

    @p.g.sharrow says:8 January 2018 at 5:37 pm

    If some other civilizations are very much more advanced than we, then they could build a giant transmitter around a neighboring star, and use it as a beacon to signal other civilizations.

    You seem to imply more advanced technology would, in a manner of speaking, cloak them from us. But there is no reason that same tech couldn’t be used to advertise existence.

    It just seems some effort is being expended to explain why we have no detections. And I do know that absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence.

  35. philjourdan says:

    Beacons are 2 ways communicators. They tell everyone where you are. If they are that intelligent, and had a violent past, they may not want to advertise it around any star near them.

  36. Larry Ledwick says:

    In one paper I was reading some time ago about SETI they discussed that any highly advanced society that followed a similar path to what we are on, if they chose to advertise there existence, would use very high gain antennas or lasers to beacon the closest systems that they thought might harbor life.

    By using highly directional systems you can largely cancel out the problem of inverse square law signal strength drop.

    For example suppose our exoplanet investigations found 5 near by solar systems that had Goldilocks planets in the habitable zone and near earth gravity, with hints of civilized occupation such as gases in the atmosphere unlikely to be of natural origin.

    If we wanted to send a “you are not alone” beacon to those 5 systems we might set up a mega watt laser beacon on some light frequency that is naturally quiet in space or near a spectrum peak that they would be likely to be looking for such as alpha hydrogen. Then send them a pulsed series of bursts in a string of the first 10 prime numbers, pause than repeat on some predictable pattern.

    If they were looking this way, and they had the intelligence and equipment to detect the pulses they would be highly likely to conclude it was an intentional beacon from a sentient world.

    Same could be done with large radar/radio telescopes like Arecibo with RF emission pulses.

    The problem is that statistically (depending on the values used in the drake equation) they would have to do that continuously for 10,000+ years to have even the slightest chance of being detected by an alien world.

  37. jim2 says:

    Let’s suppose an advanced civilization has determined it has discovered all the laws of physics. Suppose further that they are running out of resources – say their star system has only the one planet with no asteroids or comets and live in an isolated part of the solar system. Setting out to find habitable worlds is formidable even for them and would deplete their resources.

    In order to find a new home, it would be easier to attract other beings to their world, a honey trap. Since they have very advanced weapons, they aren’t afraid. So they put their beacon up and wait.

    Change topic … It seems some of the civilizations would be using some RF-creating high-energy for something.

    Also, if 100,000 advance civilizations were sending/looking for signals then about 10 a year would connect :)

  38. p.g.sharrow says:

    Actually there is one artificial high energy RF signal that would be detectable. But I would doubt that our listeners would recognize it for what it is…pg.

  39. Chris in Calgary says:

    I remember seeing an article a few years ago that claimed that DEW line radar is 10^12 times stronger than the comparable emissions of that wavelength from the Sun, and so would be detectable as far away as the center of the galaxy (26,000 ly). But, I can’t find that article anymore. :(

    This document gives similar results, but says our radar systems max out at less than 10,000 ly.

    Click to access cs05p28.pdf

  40. p.g.sharrow says:

    @Larry, a warp drive! ;-) It will create a signature that would appear to be the passage of a giant massive photonic tachyon…pg

  41. p.g.sharrow says:

    @Larry, that pink crystal pentacene almost sounds like a Star-trek Di-lithium Crystal ;-) …pg.

  42. Larry Geiger says:

    If there is faster than light I think that it will be communications and not travel. No reason to build ships and what not to travel those vast distances. Just wait until a civilization is sufficiently advanced to receive a signal and then begin communicating. Each side creates virtual interfaces. Sit at home in your easy chair and visit the galaxy. This is what I think that we should be looking for. Not sure how it might be done. Certainly the energy expenditure would be minuscule compared to outfitting at Star Trek Enterprise sized ship. IMHO.

  43. p.g.sharrow says:

    I fear that a FTL Star Ship will be the only fast way to communicate, system to system, as any broadcast would be limited to light speed. A Star Ship contains a power source that would enable continuous acceleration to FTL speeds…pg

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