The Mueller Indictment

Well, Mueller has made an indictment.

I’m not sure what to make of it, but I’m certain both “sides” (Dems and Repubs) will be claiming victory and vindication.

It’s here a a PDF file:

internet_research_agency_indictment

I’ve not read the whole thing yet. The news summaries basically say “A set of Russian guys tried to stir up trouble in general and supported Trump some, but it didn’t change anything”.

Well Duh!

The best they can do is position one of the “Oligarchs” as being close to Putin.

So let me get this straight:

A Very Very rich Russian Businessman wanted to get a Very Very rich American Businessman elected (as he thought that would be better for the interests of very very rich businessmen, one presumes) and was not fond of Hillary and her “bleed and demand payments / blackmail / bribes” to get anything done approach. I’m shocked, shocked I say to find that folks in business didn’t like Hillary and that Russians who had to cough up some large number of $Millions to get the Uranium One deal approved would not want THAT bribery machine in the White House.

Oh, and there was a general “support both sides tossing rocks at the other” element generally designed to cause discord. Like the U.S. political parties and all their hangers on needed any help in that department. /sarc;

All of it achieving… nothing.

Well, that’s God Only Knows how many $Millions spent to discover that the Russians do the same thing we do. Try to get influence in foreign countries.

Some news links to get their “spin” on things (any bold bolded by me):

First, a search on “RT Russia Indictment” found many articles. Kind of a surprise.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=RT+Russia+indictment

So picking some from this lot will be a bit random:

13 Russians indictment reveals odd ‘meddling’ efforts — RT …

The indictment of 13 Russian nationals over alleged meddling in US elections describes methods allegedly used by the defendants. Some of them are truly strange …

[Search domain [www.rt.com]
https://www.rt.com/news/419065-russian-indictment-odd-meddling/

Mueller indicted 13 Russians to drag probe out and … – rt.com

By indicting Russian nationals and entities for meddling in the 2016 US election, FBI Special Counsel Robert Mueller seeks to drag the probe out for his own gain …

[Search domain [www.rt.com]
https://www.rt.com/usa/419083-russia-probe-mueller-profit-indictment/

#13Russians: Underwhelmed netizens react to US indictment …

Reactions from internet users to the underwhelming US indictment over alleged Russian collusion during the 2016 election range from … RT Question more. live. 06:12 …

[Search domain [www.rt.com]
https://www.rt.com/usa/419061-russia-indictment-trump-twitter/

Mueller’s indictment of 13 Russians perfectly … – rt.com

The latest not-so-smoking gun in the ‘Mueller time’ saga – the indictment of 13 Russian nationals suspected of interfering with American democracy – comes at …

[Search domain [www.rt.com]

https://www.rt.com/usa/419101-mueller-indictment-media-cycle/

‘Absurd’ meddling claims & indictment of … – rt.com

US indictment of 13 Russian nationals and three entities over alleged meddling in American elections in 2016 has been labelled absurd by the Russian Foreign Ministry …

[Search domain [www.rt.com]
https://www.rt.com/news/419049-us-indictment-elections-russian-reaction/

Rosenstein on Russian Indictment: No American was “knowing …

This is going to be a tough pill to swallow for the Trump/Russia collusion diehards. Friday, Special Counsel Robert Mueller indicted 13 Russian nationals and 3 …

Taking the underwhelmed netizens at randome:

#13Russians: Underwhelmed netizens react to US indictment over election meddling
Published time: 16 Feb, 2018 23:00

Reactions from internet users to the underwhelming US indictment over alleged Russian collusion during the 2016 election range from the absurd to the laughable.

Mueller indicts 13 Russians

Following Friday’s revelation that a US federal grand jury has indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for allegedly interfering with the US 2016 election, many thought they would finally get the answers they have been searching for.

Then has a bunch of twitter quotes. Mostly saying there’s no there there.

Alexey Kovalev

@Alexey__Kovalev

Don’t forget that most of these guys aren’t some KGB dark arts geniuses, they’re underpaid journalists from failing local news outlets with their careers going down the drain, the Internet Research Agency being the only place that would still employ them

However, the indictment from special counsel Robert Mueller includes no allegations that any of the ‘interference’ actually influenced the outcome of the election at all.

Jordan
@JordanChariton

Already seeing Hillbots tweeting Russia “inflated” size of @SenSanders movement & it wasn’t as big as reported. I covered 40-50 rallies and events, several with 30-40k in attendance. There was nothing inflated about #FeeltheBern. Only inflation is bullshit that will now be spun

The indictment does accuse the defendants (now affectionately referred to as the #13Russians) of forming an organization known as the Internet Research Agency. A group which they say “sought, in part, to conduct what it called ‘information warfare against the United States of America’ through fictitious US personas on social media platforms and other Internet-based media.”

Carmine Sabia
@CarmineSabia

As the reality of what has happened starts to set in on Democrats, that President Donald Trump will not be impeached or indicted and there was no collusion, it will be a bigger meltdown than Election Day.

The group is accused of “supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump…and disparaging Hillary Clinton.” However, the indictment also found the group was established in May 2014, long before President Donald Trump announced his intention to run for office. It also states that after Trump’s inauguration, the group scheduled rallies both for and against the newly elected president.

And it goes on from there.

Then these guys popped up. Don’t knbow who they are, but they are leading with the “Nothing There” approach:

[Search domain [legalinsurrection.com]
https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/02/rosenstein-on-russian-indictment-no-american-was-knowing-participant-no-allegation-altered-the-outcome-of-the-2016-election/

Rosenstein on Russian Indictment: No American was “knowing participant,” no allegation conduct “altered the outcome of the 2016 election”

Posted by Kemberlee Kaye Friday, February 16, 2018 at 3:00pm

This is going to be a tough pill to swallow for the Trump/Russia collusion diehards.

Friday, Special Counsel Robert Mueller indicted 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian entities for the unregistered interference in U.S. elections.

“From in or around 2014 to the present, Defendants knowingly and intentionally conspired with each other (and with persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury) to defraud the United States by impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the government through fraud and deceit for the purpose of interfering with the U.S. political and electoral processes, including the presidential election of 2016,” reads the indictment.

The indictment claims these individuals posed as American activists and engaged with “unwitting” US persons in order to fine-tune their strategy. Additionally, several accused individuals committed identity theft, using illegally obtained social security numbers and driver license numbers to bolster the appearance of legitimacy and to place ads on various social media platforms.

A sampling of ads placed:

So, gee, political ads are not very effective and US Media sucked down some good Russian Cash. Who knew… /sarc;

Then CNBC is certain it means Trump was “strongly supported” by the whole thing with the hint that the election must surely be tainted by this all.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/russians-indicted-in-special-counsel-robert-muellers-probe.html

Special counsel Mueller: Russians conducted ‘information warfare’ against US during election to help Donald Trump win

Special counsel Robert Mueller said a grand jury had indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election.
The defendants allegedly conducted “information warfare” against the United States election process to help Donald Trump win.
The defendants used fake American personas, social media platforms, and other Internet media to advance their scheme, according to an indictment.

Dan Mangan | Mike Calia
Published 20 Hours Ago Updated 14 Hours Ago

A federal grand jury has indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for alleged illegal interference in the 2016 presidential elections, during which they strongly supported the candidacy of Donald Trump, special counsel Robert Mueller’s office said Friday.

The indictment says that a Russian organization called the Internet Research Agency sought to wage “information warfare” against the United States and to “sow discord” in the American political system by using fictitious American personas and social media platforms and other Internet-based media.

Internet Research Agency, a so-called “troll farm” based in St. Petersburg, Russia,” was allegedly controlled by a defendant in the indictment named Yevgeny Progozhin, who is a wealthy associate of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The indictment said the Internet Research Agency was registered with the Russian government as a corporate entity in 2013, and by May 2014 the group’s strategy included interfering with the 2016 U.S. presidential election, with the stated goal of “spread[ing] distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general,” the indictment said.

So in their view “distrust toward the candidateS and the political system in general” is “strongly supporting Trump” in their universe. OK…

Sigh. Yet more noise and smoke signifying nothing.

In the indictment itself I was surprised to see that they were aghast that people on the internet didn’t always use their true given name. Like, oh, 99% of absolutely everyone on the internet?… Unless you are a “Public Person” it is way smarter to use a “handle” than your real given name.

Then they were further shocked to find that people cared about the US election and would buy ads and promote rallies for their preferred candidate. Yes, the USA has a law saying money can only come from domestic sources. So, about those “contributions” to Madam Hillary’s “charity” from foreign sources…

The Left is certain this is just the opening salvo and Any Day Now all the Trump Advisors, Children, Trump himself, and the family pet will all be indicted for actually talking to someone with a funny accent. (Barron for talking to Mom.) While The Right is sure this is complete exoneration of all things Russia Related and in fact indicts Hillary (by indirection, somehow).

To me, it mostly looks like what Mueller has found is that Russians don’t really give a damn about USA law and do what they want. That anyone is surprised by that is the surprise.

Frankly, that the Russians may have liked Trump a little more than Hillary just tells me that have some degree of brains in their heads and know graft and corruption in Hillary when they had to pay it.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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29 Responses to The Mueller Indictment

  1. E.M.Smith says:

    Looks like this guy has gone through it in some detail:

    http://datechguyblog.com/2018/02/16/datechguy-reads-the-mueller-indictment-some-fun-facts-expect-updates/

    I’m reading the Mueller indictments and I’m noticing several things that could be charged of dreamers and other fun stuff.

    Section 1 and section 24 notes that it’s against US law for “certain foreign nationals” to enter the US without a visa providing truthful and accurate information to the government. Apparently these laws don’t apply to dreamers and those who brought them.

    Section 4 states defendants posed as us Citizens and attempted to use social media to attract US audiences.

    Section 5 talks about hiding the actual source of funds used, sort of like the Democrats and the Clinton campaign funding Fusion GPS and hiding the sources of their Trump dossier

    In section 16 several of the defendants accused apparently were associated with this organization till 2014 long before the 2016 elections and primaries.

    section 30d notes a defendants’ trip to Atlanta for four days in 2014 and the submission of an expense account to his bosses, quelle horror!

    Section 34 will get ignored a lot as it notes that the groups posed as black lives matters activists, muslim activists, christian activists, border activists and groups like “south united”. This suggests they were playing all sides which won’t fit the media narrative.

    Section 35 notes they spend “thousands of dollars of US dollars a month” on social media ads. Seriously THOUSANDS of Dollars a month? Are you kidding me?

    section 41 talks about identity theft including social security numbers, again this could be a charge of against the DACA kids.

    section 43 says these activities were directed against Hillary, Ted Cruz and Rubio (and others) by supporting Trump … BERNIE SANDERS

    I’m still reading expect a lot of updates

    Update: Oh my God section 44 accuses them of using HASHTAGS ON TWITTER and section 45 says other people unknowingly retweeted some of their stuff

    Section 57 notes that these groups held and promoted multiple rallies both supporting and opposing the results of the 2016 election including a “Trump is not my president” rally. I wonder what MSM reports about that Nov 12th NY rally says?

    Section 58 notes these guys started deleting emails to avoid investigations and did so as far back as 2014 and 2015. I wonder what Hillary might say about that? Maybe they were all about Yoga.

    Sections 60 -65 Wow! they bought Facebook ads to promote rallies including a Support Hillary Save Muslims rally in DC (section 63) and even offering to pay for a megaphone and fliers for a “March for Trump” rally (section 62). A megaphone! oh the humanity!

    Section 85 completes the list, the illegality here is that they pretended to be americans and didn’t register as foreign agents while doing activities that if done by Americans would be completely legal? Does that mean that DACA folks and illegals who have held political rallies will be indicted next?

    Section 89-95 on count 2 and section 96 again notes identity theft and moving money via such theft., boy this could be an indictment of the illegal alien DACA crowd if they wanted. But they don’t.

    My take. There seems to be nothing here in terms of a grand conspiracy to change the election. You are talking minor rallies, buying megaphones, tweets and facebook groups and the spending of THOUSANDS of dollars in web ads.

    If this is the big conspiracy there seems to be a lot lacking, particularly any kind of link to the actual Trump campaign. I suspect this will not stop the MSM to spin this as proof of the big link to the Trump campaign to sway the election.

    This doesn’t even reach the level of small potatoes, and anyone who tells you any different is a liar trying to spin you.

  2. Larry Ledwick says:

    There are currently thousands of sealed indictments out there in the court system, so this I am hoping this is just the opening salvo of a systematic reveal of organized efforts to manipulate the public discourse and influence the political process.

    If that happens I don’t see how they could avoid tripping over Soros and linking him to much of this action.

  3. jim2 says:

    Soros is Enemy #1 when it comes to subverting democracy around the world. I think we need a 3-person Special Prosecution Panel and a staff of 50 just for this one Mega-Rat.

  4. E.M.Smith says:

    Yeah… Actively promoting “Color Revolutions” to subvert democracies is definitive.

    Gee, were the Dems advocating a Color Revolution for the USA after Trump won?…. Just sayin’…

  5. kneel63 says:

    Heh.
    So Russia, with a GDP of 1.2 trillion or so, which is about 7% of USA GDP, spend thousands in a conspiracy to affect the outcome of a US election. Hmm. 0.1% of their GDP is just over a billion bucks, but they spent thousands? Less than millionth of GDP. And even then, it wasn’t all spent on supporting just one side. No surprise it didn’t affect the outcome – especially given Hillbillary spend, what, a billion?
    Seems pretty inept from a foreign govt, unless a deliberate distraction – but from what?

  6. Ron Clutz says:

    On a lighter note, some cartoonists have seen the light:

  7. Ron Clutz says:

    And also this one by Rick McKee:

  8. Andrew says:

    This indictment is just the concrete foundation course.
    Grand jury considers evidence shows that:
    It happened, not fake news
    Russia did it using covert means
    Ongoing operation since 2014
    Americans helped
    Left wing & right.
    Some were gullible. (Those in THIS indictment)
    Note the careful use of “this indictment” in official statements.
    Russia organised protests.
    Try sacking me now Trump

    Meanwhile, unnoticed by MSM, subpoenas filled this way & that, looking at Trump et al financial dealings, extraditions of hackers & persons of interest. Mueller interviews of Bannon, Sater, Manafort etc go on quietly. To be continued

    Oh and that Nunes memo, nice distraction. That nasty mr Steele.
    Waiting for the Dem counter memo….

  9. beththeserf says:

    jim2 here’s my latest edition on Soros, the man behind the curtain who
    works to take down US democracy.
    https://beththeserf.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/50th-edition-serf-under_ground-journal/

  10. David A says:

    Good article says…
    “First, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make Steele a criminal: first, he is a foreign citizen; second, he tried to influence an election, which he received payments to do (including from the FBI itself); and third, he neither registered as a foreign agent nor listed his receipts and expenditures to the Federal Election Commission. Also, according to the FBI, along the way, Steele lied…a lot, while the dossier he disseminated contained its own lies based on bought-and-paid for smears from foreign sources reliant on rumors and innuendo.

    Second, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make FusionGPS a criminal co-conspirator: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission.

    Third, if Mueller’s theory is correct, then three things make PerkinsCoie a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its receipt of payments from the Clinton campaign as a “legal expense.”

    Fourth, if Mueller’s theory is correct, then three things make the DNC a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its payments to Steele as laundered legal expenses to a law firm.

    Fifth, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make the Clinton Campaign a potential target: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission, by disguising its funding of payments to Steele laundered through a law firm as a “legal expense.”

    Sorry, lost the link. However there were numerous other clear foreign agents the DNC colluded with, and not just to influence an election, but to remove a sitting president, and many other areas of likely illegal use of the FISA court, and clear obstruction in not going after HRC. Oh, and Obama admin paid into the dossier apparently as well.

  11. Graeme No.3 says:

    David A:
    Hoist with their own petard?

  12. Rhoda Klapp says:

    David A: ” three things make Steele a criminal: first, he is a foreign citizen”

    WTF? I’m glad I didn’t get arrested last time I landed in the US, I didn’t realise foreignness was a crime.

  13. A C Osborn says:

    Rhoda Klapp says: 18 February 2018 at 10:49 am
    I don’t think that is David A’s opinion, it is his take on Mueller’s position.

  14. llanfar says:

    Apparently the Facebook VP of marketing had this to say about ad buys… (direct link from Trump’s tweet yesterday)

    Hit to Scott Adams’ YouTube (11:26 @ 1x speed).

  15. llanfar says:

    Crap – how’d strikeouts get in there? WTB preview and edit functionality… the Facebook dude is VP of Facebook Ads…

    [Reply: Fixed it. Stray extra quote mark end of the first URL AND an S in angle brackets just after "Trump's". There was a matching close S but WP may have added it to balance the first one. If you intended STRONG use the whole word or better yet, use a 'b' for bold.-E.M.Smith]

  16. aashfield says:

    Mueller’s long indictment doesn’t mention ANYTHING specific. I gather from other sources that the whole thing was about postings on Facebook and other social media. He didn’t give any dollar amounts either.

    I wonder how that compare with the US ending the Mossadegh’s democratic government in Iran, lots of S. American countries and propping up unpleasant dictators all over the world. Isn’t “regime change” interfering with another country? I suppose Soros breaking the Bank of England by shorting sterling by $10 billion doesn’t count as interference. There is no doubt that his support of Kosovo’s independence was interfering though.

  17. E.M.Smith says:

    @Rhoda:

    Being a “foreigner” is not a crime in the USA. Being a “foreigner” and attempting to influence an election (especially via spending money) IS a crime… unless, of course, you are an illegal alien / Dreamer and want to vote or hold street protests or contribute money to Democrats… /sarc;

    @aashfield:

    IIRC, there was also setting up a USA server from which to work (so IP addresses would not be flagged as Russia) and having some folks use “purloined” USA real IDs for displacing who was doing what.

    The USA has a law stating no foreigner is allowed to influence an election… I have no idea if the other countries / events cited have laws saying “no dicking with us”, but they might … Then again, since when have laws slowed down the CIA overseas of the FBI at home… (Or the NSA anywhere…)

  18. aashfield says:

    EMS.
    It’s really annoying how the MSP gets so worked up about this when America does far more of it. Talk about hypocrisy.

  19. H.R. says:

    #FreeTheRusian13
    😜

    (They’re all in Russia. They will never be extradited. Nobody cares because it’s a joke of an indictment anyways. If they did go to trial in the U.S., it would blow Muller’s fake ‘muh, Russia’ investigation to hell’n’gone. I’m just being a stinker with that hash tag.)

  20. Larry Ledwick says:

    EMS.
    It’s really annoying how the MSP gets so worked up about this when America does far more of it. Talk about hypocrisy.

    Correction ALL countries do this, they try to manipulate the public and political process so that it aids their other state interests. It is only a question of degree and how open they are about it.

    Russia / USSR have been influencing elections world wide for 100 years, nothing unusual here. The question is did they actually cross the line and pay money to elected officials and lobbyists (say like China did with the Bill Clinton administration)

  21. A C Osborn says:

    Larry, does other government members contributing to the DNC Election fund also count?
    Because there were quite a few countries where that happened.

  22. philjourdan says:

    Having the advantage of reading this 2 days later, and the accompanying comments, the article and comments are great. I agree with most of the comments, and indeed have been given additional food for thought. The last comment by Larry Ledwick (always a good source for food for thought) does bring up the question. Does the law have a statute of limitations?

    The left hates Trump and calls him stupid. He is far from it. And I think he is laughing at this theater as the left has once again indicted itself! The case that Larry mentions was never fully investigated (Clinton ran the DOJ after all), but the implication is that he is indeed guilty of the crimes the Russia 13 are! And that bit of history would stay buried forever had Mueller not been hired! But Mueller was. And a precedent set. (Algore is implicated in that one up to his eyeballs).

    Just like the #meToo meme, this one is coming back to bite the liberals. Indeed, while the public show of Mueller proceeds in the public eye (there are no secrets there apparently due to leaks), the investigations by Sessions continue in the dark. Since that is not being leaked, many feel that Sessions is a dupe. Sessions is not as canny as Trump, but he is no idiot either. The original recusal with Trump’s faux outrage over it is now looking like a master stroke! Sessions works on out of the limelight, and therefore without the left being aware of WHAT is going on.

    Each time the left thinks they have Trump, it turns out to merely be a feint in the wrong direction. Firing Mueller? Again, pointing the attention towards Mueller! And away from other investigations ongoing.

    The left is impatient for some meat from Mueller. The right for some justice from Sessions. But Trump has his own time line. A drop here, a drop there. Some will come out in the next 6 months. Just enough to solidify the descent of the democrats for the mid terms. But no more. The major revelations will come out in 2 years. Just in time for the 2020 elections.

    Trump is no politician (thank god!), and he knows that everything the public sees now is just theater while the real work goes on unseen. He is mad. Why can be speculated on. But he is there to clean up the swamp. And what was created over the past 50 years is not undone over night. He knows it. As a developer, he knows that the project takes years to complete.

    The Mueller indictments are a justification for his continuing (and Trump would not mind if they did last another 2 years). The red meat is all Tofu from the left. And it is coming out bit by bit. The YSM will not cover it. But it will come out. And the funny thing about courts of law – the YSM is specifically barred from influencing their workings! Which of course they hate more than Trump himself.

    I am investing in popcorn futures.

  23. jim2 says:

    @beththeserf says: 18 February 2018 at 12:52 am
    Thanks for the Soros exposition.

  24. cdquarles says:

    @phil, if only it were just the last 50 years. It is actually nigh on 200 years now. It started in the 1820s after all, gradually building up, akin to a snowball or an avalanche. Whether it’ll be a snowball or an avalanche depends on us.

  25. philjourdan says:

    I used 50 years as that was around the time of the JFK assassination. Which we just learned the tin foil hats had more going for them than thought for the past 50 years.

    We will probably never know the full truth about JFK. But given what we know today about the past 2 years, the conspiracy theorists seem to be gaining stature and ground.

  26. Rank Marquee says:

    Always happens that a AGW denier is also a Trump follower. The statistics shows that’s its never about the science, always about the political agenda.

  27. E.M.Smith says:

    @Bank Marquee:

    AND it always happens that a Science Abuser / Data Rapist is a Hillary follower.

    See, both side can play the insult, label, and abuse tactic with emotionally overloaded words. Doesn’t accomplish anything. If YOU have something to say, say what YOU think; and without the use of Propaganda Terms like “AGW Denier”. To look out the window and see the widely propagandized “Hottest Ever!!!” is being met with more snow than usual and a record cold temperature is not to be a “denier” of anything. It is to be a good observer.

    Since it was The Left that made AGW a centerpiece of their move to take over government, and through it, remove individual liberties; and do it via fraud, deception, and corruption of science: it is not surprising that The Left constitutes the Radical Global Warming True Believers. Nor is it a surprise that once everyone else figured out the fraud and that it was a political machine driven lie, we would support the alternative.

    Now, just because you seem to have missed it: I voted for Bernie Sanders in the California Primary because Hillary was so obviously corrupt. I was an ABC Voter – Anyone But Clinton. So I also voted for Trump when that was my only ABC choice. So does that mean everyone else who voted for Bernie is an “AGW Denier”? Or that your statement is a lie?

    See, I do something called “Be The Mirror”. If you are rude and insulting, I become rude and insulting. If you become politically manipulative of language for propaganda effect, I become politically manipulative of language for propaganda effect. As I don’t like being mean, rude, insulting, or politically manipulative of language: Please be polite and non-inflammatory in expressing your opinions. Continue with the “je accuse!” use of “denier” and your tenure here will be short.

  28. pouncer says:

    Being a “foreigner” is not a crime in the USA. Being a “foreigner” and attempting to influence an election (especially via spending money) IS a crime… unless, of course, you are an illegal alien / Dreamer and want to vote or hold street protests or contribute money to Democrats… /sarc;

    https://www.wnyc.org/story/disappointment-democrats-spending-bill-passes/
    Erika Andiola, a DACA recipient and former press secretary for Senator Bernie Sanders,

    Imagine if Ms Andiola held Russian native nationality …

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