Thus Trump.

I’m having an SDA Day, it would seem…

This comment from the article (about Kinder-Morgan saying the Trans-mountain pipeline might be a political fail):

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/04/19/galt-pipelines-inc-3/

just spoke to me about the nature of politics, globally, and what has happened in America in particular. It is in the context of an oil pipeline not being built and that damaging Canadian jobs and wealth:

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/04/19/galt-pipelines-inc-3/#comment-1109504

NeoLuddite
April 19, 2018 at 1:04 pm

The Hegelian Dialectic … A synopsis
Problems are a means to power for those that promote them. (Never let a good crisis go to waste – Rahm Emanuel)
Comment:
A process by which virtually all change is being driven today. Significantly, it is the tool of choice used by clever politicians to manipulate others to accept change where ordinarily it would be outrightly refused.

The Hegelian Dialectic is a critical process by which “planners” contrive a problem, anticipating in advance the reaction to the purported crisis and conditioning us to change that is “essential”. Once the target audience is properly conditioned, the desired agenda is presented as the only solution. The solution is not intended to solve the problem, but rather to exacerbate (but not solve) an existing one and then to serve as the basis for a solution (translate new problem.)

When the newly inflamed difficulty reaches the planned point of a crisis, it becomes the foundation upon which arguments will be made for even more change. Hence, once begun, the process is repeated, over and over, inexorably moving toward whatever end the planners have in mind.

As the process is being driven, arguments are created both for and against certain measures of change, but all discussion is carefully controlled.

The presented solutions — each with varying levels of adornment — are then publicly “debated” by the manipulators or their minions. This is done until a perceived compromise has been reached on the best measures to take enroute to solving the crisis.

Then the outcome of the “debate” — which purportedly balances the concerns of the stakeholders with the contrived mandate to do something — is enacted as policy.

We have all been profoundly impacted by use of the Hegelian Dialectic in the effective neutralization of meaningful dialogue in the formulation of policy.

Once we understand how the Hegelian Dialectic is used by planners, we can thwart their machinations by refusing to be swayed by their sophistic fear-mongering and by standing firm against senseless (and expensive) processes.

To which I say: Thus, Trump!

He was elected exactly and deliberately to say NO! and “stand firm” against fear mongering and senseless (and expensive) processes.

He is entirely the product of The Hegelian Left pushing too far and too fast. We, the people, noticed what they were up to and said to ourselves “Somebody’s got to stand up to that crap. The Milquetoast RINOs are not getting it done and the Democrats are on side. We need to get get behind that bloody bastard obnoxious Bull Trump and point him at their china store.”

And that is why all the name calling and mud throwing and sneer and smear campaigns don’t do squat. The more folks piss and moan about him being rude, not listening to the “professional advisers”, making chaos and generally being unfit for polite Washington Cultured Meetings; the more we know he’s doing the right job!

We WANT him to be immovable.
We WANT him to insult the swamp dwellers.
We WANT him to kick some butt and take names (or just keep kicking the butt if it won’t give up a name).
We WANT him to piss off folks far and wide, in our government and in others.

See, it’s His JOB to turn over the apple cart, bust up your private parties, kill you deals, and if possible run you out of town. And if you don’t run; to gore you or just sit on your face until you suffocate. We’re FINE with that.

We stopped buying into the fear monger, and we’re working from anger.
It’s very hard to be fearful when you are burning angry.

BTW, impeach Trump, the angry turns to rage.
You think the Trump Bull is bad, wait ’till you see the Raging Bull.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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52 Responses to Thus Trump.

  1. p.g.sharrow says:

    The Beast Trump can’t be owned, can’t be bought, Can’t be extorted and is not a part of their cozy self protecting society. Small wonder that this small club is frantic.
    Just as they were pushing the herd off the cliff it is turning on them. The hazers are getting confused, their noise making is no longer working, at least half of the herd has turned on them and is mad!….pg

  2. E.M.Smith says:

    You comment gave me a visual of a Buffalo Herd turning as it heads toward a cliff, averting catastrophe as the lead Bull sees the issue… So now I’m thinking maybe not Trump as Bull Cattle but Trump as Bull Buffalo! A nice Golden Buffalo in full charge would make a decent icon / statue. ;-)

    Then I was reminded of the old Viking Berserkers. (From which we get the word Berserk)

    They would pick one guy who was big and tough, and better if he was prone to angry, then fit him with a Very Thick Bear Skin (the name means “bear skin wearer” so I’ve been told). Feed him some mead so he’s feeling no pain, and a few magic mushrooms so he’s seems a bit crazy to the other folks, then bind the arms and legs so that it was hard to hit an artery and blood loss would be minimal if one was hit. Then they’d run him down the hill at all the little Frenchmen and / or similar folks they were about to face in battle.

    So here come’s old Crazy Sven kinda high, screaming like a banshee, feeling no pain, looking like a giant, and getting hit with lots of little arrows that don’t do much (bear skin and helmet being what they are). Well, this tended to scare the bejezus out of the guys he’s running at but they would think “Well, he’s only ONE crazy”… and about the time he hits their line swinging his big Viking Ax, the rest of the gang rises up, looks as big as they can, and screams like crazy. (Or so the lore goes).

    Supposedly this would cause even significantly larger forces to turn tail and run, as they saw what one of these guys was like and the prospect of 20 to 40 of them was horrifying. (Don’t know how often old Crazy Sven survived as hero vs bit the big one, though…)

    So I’ve also got this image of the Voters sitting around talking and saying: Look at that one, that Big Crazy Sounding one who doesn’t seem to notice the attacks… What say we buy him a bear skin and give HIM the big Ax!

    I could real easy see a portrait of The Don.Trump in horned helmet, bear skin, and with a Great Big Ax… with a bunch of Deplorable Voters rushing down the hill behind him ;-)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

    After poo-pooing the idea and making noises about maybe it means bare feet and no shield, the wiki gets back to what folks generally believed (and makes more sense as running into battle without equipment is not usually a good idea)

    Berserkers (or berserks) were champion Norse warriors who are primarily reported in Icelandic sagas to have fought in a trance-like fury, a characteristic which later gave rise to the English word berserk.

    These champions would often go into battle without mail coats. Berserkers are attested to in numerous Old Norse sources, as were the Úlfhéðnar (“wolf-coats”).
    […]
    Berserkers – bear warriors

    It is proposed by some authors that the berserkers drew their power from the bear and were devoted to the bear cult, which was once widespread across the northern hemisphere. The berserkers maintained their religious devotions despite their fighting prowess, as the Svarfdæla saga tells of a challenge to single-combat that was postponed by a berserker until three days after Yule. The bodies of dead berserkers were laid out in bearskins prior to their funeral rites.The bear-warrior symbolism survives to this day in the form of the bearskin caps worn by the guards of the Danish and British monarchs, the Royal Life Guards and the Queen’s Guard.

    In battle, the berserkers were subject to fits of frenzy. They would howl like wild beasts, foamed at the mouth, and gnawed the iron rim of their shields. According to belief, during these fits they were immune to steel and fire, and made great havoc in the ranks of the enemy. When the fever abated they were weak and tame. Accounts can be found in the sagas.

    To “go berserk” was to “hamask”, which translates as “change form”, in this case, as with the sense “enter a state of wild fury”. One who could transform as a berserker was typically thought of as “hamrammr” or “shapestrong”.[11]:126 For example, the band of men that go with Skallagrim in Egil’s Saga to see King Harald about his brother Thorolf’s murder are described as “the hardest of men, with a touch of the uncanny about a number of them…they [were] built and shaped more like trolls than human beings”. This has sometimes been interpreted as the band of men being “hamrammr”, though there is no major consensus.

    I like that “They would howl like wild beasts, foamed at the mouth, and gnawed the iron rim of their shields. ” as it sounds a lot like how the Yellow Stream Media tries to portray Trump! Not “getting it” that it’s a feature ;-)

    So now I’m not sure which image I like better. Trump as Golden Bull Buffalo turning the herd back on the idiot swamp critters; or Trump as Golden Bear Berserker leading the charge to the battle howling and hollering… Maybe I’ll keep ’em both ;-)

  3. p.g.sharrow says:

    Yes, I would vote for the bull head Viking helmet and a bear skin cloak, war axe and shield, big head and shoulders about twice the size of his troops! 8-) …pg

  4. Seems to me that Trump is doing what he was elected to do. No-one expected he’d be a saint, and in any case previous occupants of the position haven’t exactly been saintly either. Even JFK had Marilyn, Nixon was widely understood to lie (but wasn’t quite good enough to cover it up), and Clinton was known for both philandery and lying. Dubya was honest and honourable as far as I can see, but did have a problem with getting things right.

    I find it somewhat amusing how all the news services are united in their disdain of Trump. They jump on anything that can be portrayed in a bad light. They miss the point that he does deals on a handshake, and punishes people who don’t keep their word or don’t do what they promised to do.

    It’s going to take a while to unearth all the corruption, and where the Constitution is bypassed/ignored. The USA will be better once he’s done. We could do with a few more Trumps in Europe, but of course the positions of real power here are non-elected so it’s going to take more than people voting for a change.

  5. David A says:

    I am hopeful Trump can fulfill a truism; ” Great men make the impossible, inevitable!”

    Attempt to Impeach him now, and even I, a political activist never, will fly to DC to join the 5 million deplorabls march.

  6. philjourdan says:

    Your point is well taken. Until this century, the left had relied on “creeping incrementalism” to mold the country to their warped view. But when Obama was elected, and the docile republicans (they are NOT RINOs – Republican =/= Conservative) took impeachment “off the table”, that emboldened Obama to not only break every law in the books, but to push through the left’s agenda with no fear of repercussions. They did go too fast. And it was no longer “creeping” but speeding and easy for even the most blind of us (note, I did not say stupid) to see. Obama begat Trump. The left still does not see that. But a child does. They know to “sting” their friends, they pull the rubber band back as far as they can, because when they let go, it will snap forward farther.

    Children learn that. The left does not. The election released the taught rubber band.

  7. jim2 says:

    Someone should start a fund-raiser for defense from this:

    Democratic Party files suit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign, and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 election

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/20/democratic-party-files-suit-alleging-russia-the-trump-campaign-and-wikileaks-conspired-to-disrupt-the-2016-election-report.html

  8. Larry Ledwick says:

    This just about sums it up.

  9. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well this could be interesting!
    Seems there was an automatic backup device that captured most of the so called deleted emails, which is in the custody of the government and its contents have been ordered released by Sept of this year.

    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/exclusive-maga-movement-finds-hillarys-deleted-emails-court-orders-released/

    I wonder how this is going to fit in with the Democratic lawsuit mentioned above?
    Seems to me it would be relevant.

  10. E.M.Smith says:

    You know, I’m finding myself starting to like Ted Cruz a little bit. ;-)
    At least he can see the clue thrust in his face…

    For the first 9 months the TLA Swamp Critters held firm and continued their sub-rosa undermining of Trump. A bit at a time, Trump folks have gotten bits of the mechanism under their control (or just broken off and shut down). We’ve now had a few firings, and we’ve seen the first “We’re gonna indict your ass!” statements about the Swamp Critters ( like McCabe).

    The momentum has clearly turned. From here on out it will be accelerating. Some percentage of the Critters will take a “deal” and give up their cabal-mates. The taint will smell more and the rot be more exposed, and the acceleration will become a full on route.

    At the same time, the scheme against Trump will be hobbled and slowed. I notice that several of the folks who were dumped by Trump were on the illegal then quasi-legal wiretap list. Might part of the strategy of “changing partners” just be to give the Deep State folks a moving target for taps? Each time a participant changes, they must re-start a “give me a warrant / tap” process. By rotating players, Trump can get inside their decision / response cycle. “rotating the shield frequencies Captain!”

    IF just 1/4 of the stated “dirt” to be released about Hillary gets released, it’s going to dramatically shift things for a lot of people. That email for example. Just a couple of illegal plotting, or letters clearly classified and, say, got some Ambassador killed… and then a filing of charges on her about it, well… let’s just say being a F.O.B. or Hillary Endorsed candidate will not work out well.

    So I’m quietly hopeful we’ve turned the corner. (I’ll be happy when I see it receding in the rear view mirror of the Trump 18 Wheeler… and some Swamp Denizens as road kill behind us too…) One hopes they have this all timed right for the midterm elections.

    There’s a lot of Republicans not running for their seats again. Does anyone have a count / comparison of how many are RINOs, RNC Hacks, Wimps vs Real Conservatives? If it’s swamp critters leaving with a pension while they can where a Real Conservative is going to Primary them anyway… I’m happy to see it. If they are not facing significant internal party opposition, but “donating” the seat to the Democrat Fellow Swamp Dweller; well, that’s a major issue that needs bright bright arena lighting flooding onto it.

    Hmmmm….

    Maybe we need to arrange a Trump Memorial BBQ and Gator Hunt wherever it’s legal. Or a Trump Memorial BBQ & Snake / Swamp Critter Hunt in the Everglades… Everyone run down to Florida for a week. Have mud wrestling, wild pig hunts, roast pork BBQ, and the capstone event a big ‘ol Swamp Snake Hunt ;-)

    I’d drive all the way from California for that… Have any Pythons that get killed made into hats, belts, and boots. Make “Python Accessories” a fashion statement about Swamp Critters in D.C. Give ’em names like the McCabe Boots and the Comey Stetson, the Hillary Handbag …

    Works for me, anyway ;-)

  11. p.g.sharrow says:

    Flights of fancy.
    I’m beginning to think Mikey has opened a new bottle of Scotch and is having too much fun.
    I’m jealous ;-) …pg

  12. jim2 says:

    I’m thinking smoked Python would be mighty tasty. Have had alligator and rattle snake. A bit dry if not cooked properly, but, yep, mighty tasty!

  13. ossqss says:

    Well, I will be sighting in the new Jackal crossbow this weekend and BBQing. Got Gators in the back lake too (nothing over 7′ is worth eating really). Door is open, but you probably needed to leave yesterday ;-)

  14. cdquarles says:

    Dang straight.

    FYI folks: Joe McCarthy was right and the left used their Alinsky playbook on him. Almost everything you ‘know’ about him is wrong. There are a lot of other folk in that group, too. “Progressives”, let us be reminded, took over the Ds and Rs over a century ago. The Ds were easy, for they had bought into ‘progressive’ ideology in the 1820s, for that’s when the D party rose from the ashes of Jefferson’s Democratic-republican party; see John C. Calhoun and co from Roanoke, VA, Breckinridges, if I am remembering correctly.

    I am beginning to rethink the ‘scandals’ of the Harding era. Wouldn’t be the first time history got it wrong.

  15. E.M.Smith says:

    @P.G.:

    Um, sadly, no. When I’ve got the snivels, any alcohol just makes it much worse. So when at all feeling some bug at work, I’m a dry state… OTOH, that story is just how my mind works when left alone… it’s got a good imaginer and left alone, well, “better than Scotch” some times ;-)

    @Jim2:

    I had gator Jerky in Florida. Mighty nice (if a bit pricey). I’d be looking for both gator and python jerky…

    @Ossqss:

    I’m jealous. Tell me again about where (what State) are you in that you get to reel in your own gators?

    And why is over 7 foot not for eating? Seems to me a low and slow / wet cook softens up just about anything. Think carnitas. Cut big ‘ol pork roast into 1 inch cubes (so long fibers cut), oven slow simmer in a pot (covered) in the juice of a couple of citrus (with lots of garlic / onions / some pepper). After about 2 hours at 350 F it comes out easy to pull with forks… Then after seasoning to taste (cumin, chili powder, cilantro, …) stir and back in the oven uncovered for 1/2 hour at about 400 to make the crispy bits….

    Cooked any other way, I’ve only had tough dry pork roasts not fit to eat. (I’m still working up to how to properly BBQ / smoke it and make real pulled pork. Started with “straight roast” and that’s horrible, IMHO. Hit carnitas and YUM! so not yet made it to smoke / BBQ )

    Gotta think something similar would work with old ‘gator… Citrus juice marinade tends to soften anyway, then a long slow braise; it ought to just fall apart… BUT, it ain’t pork so would need testing.

    Hmmm…. Looks like someone in Texas had the same idea already:
    https://www.yelp.com/menu/overland-country-bar-and-grill-oakland

    Alligator Carnitas Burrito
    Fried gator and salsa verde. Includes cheese, rice, and vegan mashed beans inside.
    $18.00

    Wonder what the idea is with Vegan beans in a MEAT burrito… Unclear on the concept?

    Well, it’s an existence proof anyway…

    @C.D.Quarles:

    Interesting point… Would be an interesting project to “Fact Check” history on that…

  16. ossqss says:

    Florida EM. Near SRQ and tractor distance to the Linger Lodge Resteraunt, which was know to sell the most gator meat in the country a couple years ago. Anything over 7′ has way too much sinew in it to deal with. I believe the recent 4′ termination law is still in effect and no permit required to do so. Biggest we ever got with permit was 12.5 feet and it went to Tampa to a processing factory. I prefer backened or Cajun gator nuggets myself. Jaw meat is the best part though. You don’t see a menu like this often ;-)

    http://www.lingerlodgeresort.com/restaurant-menus.asp

  17. E.M.Smith says:

    Well, I know where I’m having dinner some Saturday next year :-)

  18. E.M.Smith says:

    Don’t know how they ship it (maybe dry ice pack?) but you can get Gator Sausage, legs, and meat; even a whole skinned gator (for that Cajun Luau? Stick a turtle in a duck in its mouth for TurDuckGator? ;-)

    http://www.lacrawfish.com/Alligator-Legs-Bone-In-P358.aspx

    Legs 2 lbs for $24 looks like the best “deal” ( $12 / lb) while whole gator is $13 / lb and Gator Sausage is $17 / lb. $19/lb for what I guess is the tail meat and $20 / lb for “nuggets”.

    I think my inner Cajun is leaking out ;-)

    The idea of braised gator legs, mashed roots, peas and English beer has a certain whimsy to it…

  19. H.R. says:

    @ossqss Great tip!!!!

    I will be eating at the Linger Lodge at least once this or next year. My wife and I are staying at an RV park just off Madeira Beach Dec. ’18 through Feb. ’19. It looks to be about an hour’s drive away from the restaurant. That menu is right up my alley, as I am fond of alligator and frog legs. The Happy Hour and Specialty Drink menus look decent, too.

    While at the Lodge, we will be checking out the campground. Due to snowy weather on our route home, we extended our Florida stay 2 weeks into March this year. If we extend our stay into March again next year and the RV spots are nice (and available),we may just move over to that campground. I definitely like the fishing out the front door.

    Also, if you are into saltwater fishing, I’ll be hitting up the Sunshine Skyway pier at least a half dozen times. I’ll probably also hit up the Ft. DeSoto pier (the new one) a couple of times.

    Let me know now if you’d want to toss out some lines on the South pier and shoot the breeze. I will definitely tuck a ‘yes’ answer from you into long-term memory.

    Any other ‘usual suspects’ around here are more than welcome to pipe up now and join in. It’s a BIG pier.
    https://www.floridastateparks.org/park/Skyway

    Then, while I’m down in Florida and if E.M. doesn’t mind, I’ll post here on the most recent W.O.O.D. a few days ahead of the days that look good to get out on the pier. We can then work out arrangements to meet up. Any diehard fishermen at NSA monitoring our plans are more than welcome to join us (wait… would we have a choice?), so long as they bring their own lunch and bait 😳… 😆.

    P.S. They sometimes catch Goliath grouper off the Sunshine Skyway Pier. I don’t fish for them because my heaviest rig only has 100-lb. test line which is inadequate for the task. Bait is a stingray with about a 2-foot span. I hear it’s like hooking a Volkswagen Bug and often it takes the grouper a while to realize it is hooked; gulps the bait and continues on down the pier while you and your reel are both screaming.

  20. H.R. says:

    And now we return to our regular programming 😜

  21. Steven Fraser says:

    I propose alternate terminology… Trump FESTIVAL BBQ & …, or, better yet…
    Trump ANNUAL!

  22. ossqss says:

    @HR Don’t overlook the Reddington Long Pier just North of Madeira beach on moving tides. You never know what you will catch. My folks had a condo at Ocean Sands in Madeira for decades and we frequented that pier many times.

    @EM Ummm, I would suggest the nuggets. You probably will not be happy with anything else. You don’t see people having a whole Gator roast on a spit or Gator Legs on any menu down here for a reason ;-)

  23. H.R. says:

    @ossqss
    Reddington Long Pier is about 10 minutes away. It has been on my list for ages, but I never seem to get around to stopping by. I’ll make it a point to hit it this year.

    My wife likes to fish (fishing was our first date; she generally outfishes everyone; magic) but since her stroke in 2008, she has been mobility impaired and never lost the fatigue that accompanies a stroke. That’s why the Sunshine Skyway pier is a favorite, since you drive to where you’re going to fish, park, unload and start fishing. I also fish the rip rap at John’s Pass as parking is very close and convenient for her. Same for Sand Key passage into Clearwater.

  24. E.M.Smith says:

    Per posting a “y’all Come!” for some fishing event in the future: Feel Free!

    I’ll need to review the comments above and make a fishing spot list ;-)

    I need to find out what fish taste good, though… In cooler water, catfish are delicious. In warm Florida waters they have a muddy algae like taste. A great disappointment… I’d guess anything from the Atlantic side will be good (i.e. standard ocean fish rules), but some shallow water gulf side gulf cats (hardhead I think) were less than interesting…

  25. ossqss says:

    Don’t know many, if any, folks who eat saltwater catfish Chief. Some freshwater, yeppers, not salt (albeit edible). Saltwater in Florida has a vast array of other fantastic fish (in shore or off shore) to catch and eat from Flounder to Snook to Snapper, Gouper, Pompano and on and on.

  26. Power Grab says:

    The oldest rattlesnake hunt is going to be held next week:

    http://www.okeenesnakehunt.com/

    Just sayin’! ;-)

  27. H.R. says:

    @E.M. There was a park on a marina on the inter-coastal about 5 minutes from where we stayed this year in Florida (Bickley RV Park). I caught my first and only bonefish there. I went there mornings and evenings for some quick fishing. My wife and the dogs accompanied me several times as there were a few gazebos where she could sit that were not too far from the parking lot. The dogs loved to protect my bait from the gulls, herons and pelicans who hung out there with malice aforethought and absolute intent on stealing bait from the fishermen there. they had a blast chasing off the avian bait thieves.

    Any how, fishing was not great in Florida this year as temperatures were running well below historical averages. I finally caught on that the saltwater catfish didn’t care and the evening action on cut mullet was fast and furious. I was catching loads of 3-5 pounders just after dusk. BTW, I got finned by one and yes, their spines are indeed poisonous. Owie, momma!

    I have only cooked my Florida catch (nice mess of grunts) just once and that was when we stayed in condos. I will not cook fish in our trailer as the smell will never leave.

    I did buy a small, portable propane grill towards the end of our stay this year, so now I can keep and cook some of the fish I catch. Grilled fish are g-o-o-o-d. I don’t know if sailcats are good eating compared to freshwater cats, but I’ll find out on my next trip.

    I was surprised to find that you are a more active fisherman nowadays than I thought. Over the past several years, I have posted comments regarding fishing and you have responded with your own experiences, but they seemed geared towards your younger days and not particularly contemporaneous. In the past year or so, you’ve made brief mentions about fishing in Florida that reveal you’ve been fishing a bit more than you were before you started getting contract work in Florida… holding out on us, eh? 😜

    Anyhow, if you make the transition to Florida, then sometime over the next few years I look forward to the possible opportunity of knocking back a few brews with you, watching our lines in hopes that a big’un comes along, and chewing the fat in between swapping fishing lies.

  28. E.M.Smith says:

    @ossqss:

    Well, I’ve not done a lot of salt fishing, so have a huge skill deficit to fix… 2 x out on boats, maybe a dozen times from piers and a half dozen from the beach. Never a lot of action. (Oh, and probably 50+ times from my liveaboard sail boat, but I was often “beer fishing” then – though catching baby tiger sharks was a lot of fun ;-)

    But yeah, there’s lots of fish in the sea, I just need to learn what they are and who to keep and how to catch and… Out here it’s all different fish. Very cold water ( 45 F ) and the big deal is the salmon run or sea bass from a boat.

    @PowerGrab:

    Maybe they need to make Trump an honorary Snake Hunt Marshal ;-)

    @H.R.:

    Well, I have a Florida Resident fishing license from my last 2 year stint. Lake was “on property” though better fishing was the other end about a 5 mile drive from the park. Tried Lake Louisa? State Park too, and some others. Bought somewhere around 4 different poles and a couple of full fishing kits. Best fishing I managed was under a road in a slough connecting two lakes… but even there wasn’t all that great.

    I didn’t say much about it mostly ’cause I wasn’t doing that well. I went out fairly often, but mostly caught mosquitos…. The RV park lake had some gators in it and I think they kept pickings slim, but also it was heavily fished. Most of the guys getting something were either using bass boats or fishing for some kind of gar thing in the evening (that isn’t edible so not making me excited and needed fishing methods I didn’t know anyway – lighted bobbers? What’s up with that?)

    I did well catching cats, but the muddy flavor was really a surprise. IF there are Florida cats that taste good I’ve got to learn which ones and where… I caught some way too small sunfish, and one big enough to be worth cooking – that tasted good too. On my trips to shore fishing places, the spouse was along so I mostly just did “observe and learn what they do”; but it looked like a decent way to catch fish – though at Tampa Bay on the end of the bridge away from the main land area – it was very crowded… so I also need to learn the less traveled places to go. Remember that I was working then and weekends were for “everything else” so most fishing was limited to a 1 hour drive radius of Disney World.

    One place that was an old quarry in Polk County looked great, but it was over run with turtles. Just not really possible to do bait fishing without them working the hook. And I an not that skilled with lures nor did I have much of any. But I did learn a lot about turtles and fishing… a problem not seen in California.

    My one run out into the Gulf on a boat was about 1/2 way from Tampa to the panhandle. It was a lot of fun. Caught several “hardhead” cats (discussed above) and a few of some kind of small shark. There was something else we caught that was sort of a bass like thing, but that’s where I found out that the species are NOT familiar. And it was an inch or so below ‘keeper’ per the boat owner / captain / Brother-in-law-of-friend.

    So why not say more about it? Because none of it made me feel like I had something to brag on, and a lot of it was of the form “Well I’m clueless on that…” Like the 4 or 5 foot gator who would chase my cast at one of the minor lakes in the State Park… I think it chased the fish away, maybe, but what to do? Heck, even what bait and what sized hooks at most places were just “guess and hope”.

    Did drown a lot of worms and down a lot of beers and generally avoided sunburn, though ;-) Got to see some fair amount of the 70 mile radius around Orlando too…

  29. p.g.sharrow says:

    “Going fishing” covers several styles.
    fishing for food or income
    fishing for fun of the catch
    fishing for competition, bragging rights
    fishing as an excuse
    Each style requires a different tool kit, different destinations and different attitude.
    As I got older my point for fishing changed. Now, if I want fish for dinner I go to the store and buy it. Cheaper then fishing and a sure thing to get what I want. So, If I go fishing now it is to drink beer and visit with friends. Catching fish is nuisance. Once caught, you have to deal with it!
    That is WORK! a four letter word. I can stay home and do that…pg

  30. H.R. says:

    @E.M.: Those are some great stories, particularly about the alligator chasing your cast I’ve never had that one happen to me. If I did, I’d stop fishing and start alligator training.

    I’m also on the lower end of the Florida fishing learning curve; fresh and salt. It’s fun and challenging to learn to think like the local fish and it’s nice to meet the locals, who are usually good for a few tips on the techniques and better fishing spots. The problem in Florida in the Winter is nobody is local! I’ve been approached by other anglers looking for tips. At least we get to exchange what we’ve tried that doesn’t work. 😜

    In saltwater, I don’t usually fish for quantity. Saltwater is my chance to catch something 50-lbs or better, which doesn’t happen in the Mid-west unless you tie into a big catfish. So I go to the piers, catch pinfish and then bait up a 6-7″ one on a 9/0 hook. I’m not going to be bothered by bait stealers. Anything that hits will put up a big tussle. I’ve had 65# and 80# test snapped, which is why I now have a 100#-test rig.

    @p.g. That is a great summary of fishing! That’s absolutely how it works.

    I’m mostly a catch and release guy. I fish nearly every day as there are two ponds that are great for bluegill, which I started targeting because I use them for catfish bait. I wanted to get really good at catching bluegill on demand for bait.

    I live 5 minutes from my favorite catfishing spot on a 3,700 acre reservoir. I go out and sit in a nice comfy folding chair, bait up with a 3-4″ snack-size bluegill on one pole and a 5-7″ bluegill on another pole. Then I sit and enjoy the boats going by, there’s an osprey that’s fun to observe, and as it gets late, I watch the stars. I cannot believe how many meteors I see. Most nights, only one or two, but some of those have been real fireballs and some nights I’ll see a half-dozen. Just a few miles down the road the neighborhoods produce so much light pollution that you can’t see any meteors.

    I only started catfishing about 4 years ago because I had the saltwater poles I bought in Florida sitting around doing nothing. In general, I get action on the snack-size bluegill. On the larger bluegill I usually won’t get a bite. Right now, my best on the larger bait has been a couple of 10#s, a 12#, and a 13#. I also tied into a 50# snapping turtle, which I could not land. Had to get that snapper freed at the bank. That was dicey. I’m working on getting my personal best catfish up into the 20#-30# range.

  31. jim2 says:

    “We as a country have been frozen over for the last 30 years. There’s a massive, thick layer of permafrost, which was called political correctness …

    Gorka used the illustration of an ice-breaker ship to represent President Trump, the “kryptonite of political correctness.” Trump sees a massive layer of ice and “like a million ton ship with a tungsten hull he just smashes through it and breaks a path forward to freedom.” But the physics of ice breaking dictates that a flotilla must come up behind the ice breaking ship. If it doesn’t, “almost instantly” the ice smashing ship will be surrounded by broken ice that quickly refreezes around the ship, re-forming to close off the sea lane that the ship just created. A following fleet prevents that from happening.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/04/21/gorka-to-grassroots-trump-is-the-kryptonite-of-political-correctness/

  32. jim2 says:

    My son and I went freshwater fishing off and on. Didn’t usually catch much. Then hired a guide. Caught lots of fish. But more than that, learned a lot about fishing. The guide can’t lead you to fish without revealing secrets, and I considered that worth the money, not to mention the fun we had!

  33. E.M.Smith says:

    @H.R.:

    It was a young gator, approaching 5 feet I’d say, but had learned that fishing people meant food. Don’t know if that was from folks tossing it food (illegal) or bait coming off in casting, or just going where the bait went and wait for the fish to show up.

    It didn’t exactly chase the cast; more like “saunter over” and lurk. I was using worms on a hook so not really enough to interest a gator directly, IMHO. But he’s sit about 4 feet back from it look around. Sometimes sinking below the water.

    That was as much fun as catching a fish, so I did that for an hour or two… There were a couple of bigger gators cruised by in the distance (a mile out?) leaving their reed beds to work the lake, but they didn’t come over. Might just be a “kid-gator” bored and playing… unless bored-and-playing is a mammal thing that gators don’t do…

    Partly what I think I learned during it all is I’m just thinking way too small. California is so fished out most places that the goal is to catch a pan sized pan fish. In other words I’m fishing to catch your bait! Other folks were going for big bass, gar, and “things from the sea” a foot to several feet long. So one “take away” for me was to think “upsize”. Just about then my contract ended 8-{

    @Jim2:

    I might someday resort to a paid guide, but it feels kind of like prostitution… if you can’t do it on your own maybe you have “issues” to work on… ;-)

    Trump as Icebreaker! Yes!

    @P.G.:

    Thus my “Beer Fishing” (where I always catch my limit ;-)

    Why I fish:

    1) If you are fishing, nobody is telling you what to do. Not the boss at work. Not the spouse at home. Not the yard saying it looks like shit and needs a mow. Not the Honey Do list from last month. Not your own feeling that the tires need rotating. You ARE doing. You ARE already booked. You Are FISHING.

    2) When sitting by the lake or river drinking beer, you are a bum. The local people will report you. The police will bother you. The Fish & Game guys will ask what you are doing and remind you about “drinking in public” laws. When sitting by the lake or river with a fishing pole (bait and hook optional) while drinking a beer those same folks will say “Catch anything?”… and leave you alone.

    3) Being forced to sit, sometimes for hours, surrounded by nature, ofen alone; one is put in contemplation. It’s a Zen kind of meditative thing. You MUST learn patience and being part of the flow. Bass fisherman and most powerboat fisherman can not do this, so they take the active sport fishing mode. Those of us on the bank or in a single drifting skiff know the inner self.

    4) Sometimes, and occasionally against your will, you are forced into dynamic action. Usually this is a bit of excitement thrust into the middle of the meditative centered state. Reminding you to be flexible in life and adapt quickly to what is demanded. From zero to adrenaline in one pole nod! Then the puzzle begins: How to land it.

    5) Fishing just to torment fish is antithetical to my values, so stopping at #4 with a caught fish and dumping it back in the water (often fatally injured if it swallowed the hook) has a moral compass issue for me. Which leads to: Fish tasted good (well, the right fish do ;-). I need to eat. I’ve caught dinner. Good to go. I am once again communing with 100,000 years of ancestors catching dinner. I am worthy of their trust i the future. I also have some (slim) hope that in a real Aw Shit I can managed to get some meals this way. Dad made sure I could do this ( partly for the fun, partly aa they were on the Mississippi in the Great Depression and DID get meals this way). It is my obligation to prove I learned it. ALL of it. Including fish prep. My reward for that proof is a very tasty meal. I’ve once again proven I can function at the Stone Age level in some way, not bound to modern tech to stay alive (in some small way). While not commercial fishing for volume, it is “fishing for effect” and knowing you could scale up if needed. (Set 40 hand lines instead of just one). I sometimes make small hand lines with stick floats and ‘junk’ sinkers while doing pole fishing. Just because I can.

    These are expanded versions of your list.

    1) As an excuse. (Excuse to what? See #1 above).

    2) Drink beer and visit with friends. (Unfortunately, my Florida Friend is not much of a fisherman so can’t give me local “guide” service.. but we had fun on his lake anyway.)

    3) Not explicitly on your list. But perhaps under “excuse”. Some folks are meditative, others not.

    4) Fun of the catch.

    5) Food (though I care more about skill proof while income isn’t on my list)

    One of my minor interests is “minimal kits”, for all sorts of things. For fishing there are these clear plastic disks with leader line on them. I’ll attach a swivel, a small weight, and a hook that can all be rolled inside the disk. Voila! Minimal fishing kit! But will it work?

    In the past I’d use film canisters (once everywhere, now almost gone). Wind line on the outside like a spool, end under the cap with a couple of swivels, weights, hooks, even a mini-lure. Voila! Instant near-minimal fishing kits!

    BUT: Are they worth a damn in a real SHTF scenario where you are broken down next to a stream or lake somewhere? Well, “must test to know”. So one of my minor joys is “fishing with nearly nothing” to test such ideas. (They work, but for little fish in long waits. More gear is better, and my next time in Florida I’m going to buy one of the “cast nets” used for getting bait and leave IT in the car ;-)

    That isn’t really fishing to fish, more testing gear and ideas; but it IS still a reason to fish!

    Don’t underestimate the power of “Gone Fishing to think”. Many folks do that. It’s a time to work on some of the issues in front of you sometimes… it isn’t always about escaping issues, it’s sometimes about escaping the lesser issues so you can contemplate the deeper ones without interruption (by people ;-)

  34. jim2 says:

    Well, EM, people go to college to learn from people who already know the subjects. At one time, it was a good ride.

  35. p.g.sharrow says:

    On fishing with minimal gear. When I was young and had no gear of my own, I would search shore lines and snags for lost line, hooks and lures to create a usable kit wherever I was. At times tying a “fly” or making a lure as needed. Made traps and tied net, even learned to “noddle” up fish bare handed. Seems necessity or challenge is all that is needed if you HAVE to catch fish or other water creatures. Mans most valuable tool is his inventive brain, nimble fingers and necessity…pg.

  36. H.R. says:

    @E.M. I use non-stainless circle hooks to prevent injuring fish. 99% of the time they are hooked right in the corner of the mouth. Otherwise, lower or upper lip. Long-shank J-hooks pretty much guarantee an injured fish. I cannot recall ever having a circle hook swallowed. Some areas are now requiring circle hooks for fishing because of size limits, which means you must toss back some fish. So the circle hook requirement prevents throwing illegal-to-posses-but-dead fish back into the water.

    “Don’t underestimate the power of “Gone Fishing to think”. Many folks do that. It’s a time to work on some of the issues in front of you sometimes… it isn’t always about escaping issues, it’s sometimes about escaping the lesser issues so you can contemplate the deeper ones without interruption (by people ;-)”

    YES! While working (long hours) I’d still have time to run up to one of the ponds or sit a couple of hours on the reservoir. I’d be visualizing what was going on at the end of my line and trying to think like a fish; very primal. But often, a solution to a thorny problem at work would pop into my head, having percolated to the top while my brain was otherwise engaged in fishing.

    @jim2: I’ve recently found that on the Gulf, guides are about half the cost of the guides on the Atlantic. I just assumed the prices were comparable. I’m looking to take one guided trip on the next visit to Florida.The missus wants to go and we’ll probably target sea trout or redfish.

    Also the ‘head’ or party boat prices are really good on the Gulf. I always book a trip with the Queen Fleet out of Clearwater. An 8-hour trip is $75 and they clean and fillet your catch. A 6-hour trip out of Hilton Head, SC was running me $110.

    Oh! Party boat story. A few years ago I went out on the party boat on our last day. I wasn’t going to keep any fish because I had to go home and pack up for an early start.

    I caught north of 30 fish that day and there were probably only 15-18 people on the trip. When I caught the first fish (nice fish), the mate was right there and I was getting ready to throw it back when I said, “Awww, either keep it yourself or put it on one of the guy’s stringer.” He kept coming by and took all my fish for the day.

    On the trip back in, I asked him what he did with the fish and he said he dealt them out among the other fishermen’s stringers. Then he started laughing his ass off about it because on every trip, he said, there are always a couple of guys who will get mad and insist that he shorted their stringer because they counted in their head and ‘knew’ how many they caught (they don’t). He said this trip there would be no complainers. Who’s going to come up to the mate and complain they have more fish than they counted? 😆 I gave him a nice tip for his side of the story and besides, he was going to have to clean my fish anyway, even if it wasn’t for me.

  37. jim2 says:

    Back on the Trump part of this thread, I was a bit annoyed when I read about the Dimowit suit against Trump et al. However, someone pointed out this would be expensive. Even if a large donor or three are paying the bills, that’s still money diverted from the Dimowit’s 2018 election expenditures.

  38. H.R. says:

    If President can pull off his agenda…

    … I think he’ll deserve a little more than a Gator Hunt.

  39. E.M.Smith says:

    @H.R.:

    I got some circle hooks when in Florida (somewhere in the rule book it said for FOO fish get circle hooks, so I did…). BUT, what does stainless or not matter? Stainless is entirely non-toxic near as I can tell… is it the “rust out if line breaks” ?

    @P.G.:

    Yes… the “low tree branch’ is your friend in “scrounge to survive” mode. Along with “shrub in wading deep water”… (though maybe not in Florida ;-)

    Got some giant shot weights and a few lures that way (along with the usual bobbers and such).

  40. David A says:

    Trump as an icebreaker, sure.

    How about Trump as a centrifuge; throw in a politician, and any RINO deep- stated comes out. ( Bush and Romney for example)

  41. H.R. says:

    @E.M.: “Yes” to the rust out factor, particularly in saltwater.

  42. philjourdan says:

    @E.M. – Growing up, I only thought fish lived in the oceans! I fished it anyway I could and usually did fairly well. And I love the taste!

    Sadly, we do grow up and I learned that there are fish in streams and lakes. Never quite tasted the same. But as the ocean was not easily accessible, it worked.

    I went down to Florida about 10 years ago (taking a cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale). I spent a week with my mother (visiting) and brother who, like me, grew up fishing in the ocean. He never lost it (kind of hard to be far from the ocean in Florida). He took me Surf Fishing and we had great luck! Or just his skill. We caught a dozen Whitings and a small nurse shark (we tossed the shark back). But it reminded me the best fishing is still in the sea!

  43. agimarc says:

    Scattershooting:

    – Glenn Reynolds at InstaPundit has been describing what Trump is with the old Ghostbusters phrase “Choose the form of the Destructor.”

    – Cigars will keep mosquitoes away. Two problems with them are they also keep Mama away and I quickly run into my personal chew gum and walk limit if fishing is hot.

    – House Republicans have term limits on Committee Chairmen, which explains why a bunch of them are retiring.

    – Trump as the ultimate troll has promised a countersuit against democrats demanding access to the DNC server they wouldn’t allow the FIB to investigate following the hack.

    – Final thought. In another life, I flew, Our concern was the Soviets coming west for the winter, Fulda Gap, etc. In my business we figured we would die like flies. Mentally we prepared by figuring while we were expendable, we weren’t nearly as expendable as our visitors from the East. It’s been a long time since I’ve worn that particular hat. I know where it is and can put it back on should the left go for the gold. Cheers –

  44. cdquarles says:

    All of the fishing that I’ve done has been fresh water. My sister, though, with her family, has gone salt-water fishing.

    I’ve used cane poles that I cut myself (grandfather demonstrating) with line from cotton twine to steel wire, though I’m most fond of translucent plastic (STREN for the WIN). Cork bobbers to plastic bobbers, Cast lead shot sinkers (grandfather made :) to store-bought to steel. Well lead is natural and easy to work with, compared to steel. Both are non-toxic to toxic, depending on circumstances.

    Sunfish family (bream, shellcrackers, crappie, bluegills) are fine tasting fish, locally. Bass and catfish depend on age (size) and where they’re caught. Never caught a gar, though I have seen them. Don’t know how they taste, though some do like eating them.

  45. beththeserf says:

    C-C-C –
    Clinton – Clapper – Comey –
    Collusion with a triple
    CAPITAL C.

  46. E.M.Smith says:

    @C.D. Quarles:

    I’ve cut a cane pole at a friends home, had us all load up in a station wagon (poles strapped to the top or out a window) and “gone fishing” for pan fish. Doesn’t get any better than that. I actually liked the cane pole experience more than all that casting stuff. Just sort of quietly swung the bait ‘n bobber out and let it slide into the water… When you had a hot spot in the creek, it didn’t scare them off like a big splash of a cast…

    Big sunfish are my favorite kind of fishing. Catfish in cold water close behind. (The warm water ones are just as fun to catch, but the flavor isn’t as good…) I like catching Bass and the Salmon I’ve caught were a big thrill, but they both are a lot of work more than contemplative. Trout are something I really like to eat, but the catching of them is a bit finicky. Lake trout really need a boat and streams want that whole waders and flies business. (Yes, I’ve caught cutthroat and rainbows from the bank with salmon eggs on a regular cast reel job. It works, and I’m happy to do it if the opportunity presents; but I’d rather drive 20 minutes and catch bluegill while warm than drive 6 hours and be cold hoping for a trout…

    @Ossqss:

    I think Melania has a nice subtle kind of warrior in her ;-)

    @Beth:

    Ah, something to watch with morning coffee ;-) Thanks!

    @agimarc:

    Unfortunately, cigars will also keep me away…

    Yes, there’s a peculiar thing happens once you’ve decided you can “go there” into the land of expendable. You start to think of body parts as consumables and even the whole package as a “transaction”. Things like “If I can take out 4 before I’m done, it will be a good day”. I think most professional Swap Critters have no clue on that front…

    When my Son was learning to ride a motorcycle, I had a 500 CC Honda water cooled shaft drive Silverwing type. I’d ride protection for him from a couple of bike lengths back. Several times I had a “come to Jesus” moment with some jerks in a car about to cut in front of him. Suddenly I’d have opened the throttle and be looking in their drivers side window from about 2 foot away… Just letting them know that NO, they are NOT changing lanes right now, there’s a kid on a Honda 360 in that lane… So they could argue with me instead. I figured I was more “expendable” than him… Oddly, even tough looking dudes in heavy vehicles seemed to detect the Papa Bear Attitude and have a re-think… Not quite the same as flying into combat with guns, but still a “skin at risk” moment… bike vs 2 tons of car or truck.

    Do that kind of thing a few times, it seeps into your soul. Yes, there are things I’m ready and willing to die for… as long as I take the other guys with me…

  47. Larry Ledwick says:

    An interesting comment on why the Stormy / Trump story is getting no traction with Republicans.

    [moral of this story – don’t push a rule book and expect it to only be applied to one side in the political debate – it will come back to bite you]

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/992047595072688128.html

  48. jim2 says:

    There are plenty of Dimowits and Redimowits who have some skeletons in their closets. But the Dimowits have the Billary/Obummer gang – and I hope every last one of them get thrown under the jailhouse. “Scandal-free” indeed!

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