Trump & Affairs

Seems that Michael Cohen has released a tape of him and Trump discussing a payment to McDougal about her claim of an affair between them and wanting hush money.

Dear Left:

I don’t give a rats ass about any alleged or even real Trump Affair.

Mother Mary could return to earth reincarnated and have an affair with Trump or even a Ménage à trois with Melania and I still would not care.

The same way I really didn’t care that POTUS Clinton could only manage to get an affair with a slightly chubby intern with self image issues. (Making “Blue Dress” a meme in the process…)

At least Trump has good taste in women. He does seem to know how to get the “lookers”. I admire him for that. Or maybe I admire the power of $Billions for that. Whatever. For whatever reason, the guy gets hookups with some real babes.

At most, my engagement with the topic is one of mild envy. It adds to his reputation as a guy who can get what he wants.

So go ahead. Keep beating that dead horse. Those who hate Trump already hate him, so won’t get more so. The rest of us will either not care at all (“boys will be boys” and very rich and powerful ones more so) or will find it an interesting bit of added reason to envy the guy.

BTW, playing the “morality angle” isn’t exactly going to work either. First off, coming from the “anything goes GLBTQAphabetsoup + pedophiles” Left is a bit rich; but secondly you are largely talking to the “Free Love” generation (and remember that the Bible Belt is not listening to you anyway…)

Frankly, I think it would make a nice poster to have Trump, grinning with a Thumbs Up, Melania at his side, and all the alleged “conquests” pictures under him. Very non-PC, but would get the envy of a lot of guys. Even those of us so constrained by our personal morality that we can’t even hold hands with a woman not our spouse. We all envy the “Bad Boy” who does what we can’t bring ourselves to do. Look at how many women fall for the Bad Boy. Nobody want’s to admit it, but the Bad Boy image is not a damaging one.

So go ahead. Push that meme. Preferably with pictures ;-)

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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81 Responses to Trump & Affairs

  1. John F. Hultquist says:

    I read an interview with Billy Joel (WSJ, I think).
    Same sort of character — that America loves.
    Most of the rest of us would be serving time.
    Most of us don’t need off-road 4x4s, either.
    Sedans don’t sell. http://fortune.com/2018/04/26/ford-no-longer-making-sedans/

  2. E.M.Smith says:

    @John F:

    Is it that they don’t sell, or that CAFE rules made it impossible to sell enough little boxes to make the 50 MPGish that Obama had mandated for cars? Yes, Trump reversed that, but only after the decisions at Ford were made…

    Look around. Just about every new car is either a pickup truck or a jelly bean shaped SUV. Why?

    The trucks are in a different CAFE block from “sedans”. Similarly, the SUV is not a station wagon (car) so doesn’t count against the car CAFE average. The station wagon did not die, it was murdered.

    So given the price penalties attached to big cars, consumers smartly moved to trucks and SUVs.

    If the pickup and SUV limits get too constraining, watch for a lot of guys buying a Kenworth…

  3. H.R. says:

    “If the pickup and SUV limits get too constraining, watch for a lot of guys buying a Kenworth…”

    …or a Henway.

    What’s a ‘Henway’? About 3-1/2 pounds.

    (I’ll be gettin’ me hat an’ me coat, now.)

  4. Larry Ledwick says:

    That’s one of the things that I think puts Putin and Trump on the same page.

    I think Putin is a “younger women, faster horses, older whisky” kind of guy so they are at least familiar with the same drives and needs, which helps Trump work with Putin – he knows what is important to Putin and what is a meaningless throw away for him.

    Obama and Kerry were completely clueless about where Putin was coming from and what mattered to him.

    He and Trump are like the two tough guys that hang out at the same bar, they each have their own table and mostly stay out of each others way. Both have bloodied the other guys nose a time or two and they respect that the other guy stood his ground and gave as good as he got.

    That leads to a truce based on mutual strength and respect and both will tip toe carefully around the other’s sacred ground.

  5. p.g.sharrow says:

    HR’s Henway…………………………………………….about 3-1/2 pound! arf arf 8-)
    sit down and have another beer …pg

  6. p.g.sharrow says:

    Oh yeah, Trump and his affairs, yawn.
    Is that all there is? A hansom man with lots of wealth is a babe magnet?
    It is my opinion that he has too much money to be bought. Too old to be creating a new career. Has a great deal of experience in dealing with crooked politicians and their mob friends even on an international basis. Even more important, Not a part of “the DC Club”. As well as greatly experienced at being the Big Boss of an extensive operation.
    Now President Trump is the most powerful “Old” man in the world. 8-) I’m happy, Prophesies are being fulfilled. The darkness wanes as the the light of a new age dawns…pg

  7. E.M.Smith says:

    now I’m tempted to make a kit car company that sells the basic parts to make a light weight shell / frame and all, and a hot engine to put in it… And call it a Henway…

    @P.G.:

    yeah, about as surprise as “Fastest horse wins race!” or “women like rich men who spend too much’…

  8. Graeme No.3 says:

    EMS:
    Quite O/T
    Came across a reference to Felonia von Pantsuit on a recent post (not here). Is this common in the USA, and does it refer to who I think it refers to?

  9. Graeme No.3 says:

    The most popular Stewart King of England was undoubtedly Charles the second. Not that there was much competition – James 1 preferred young men, Charles 1 was uxorious until the Eglish chopped off his head, James the second likewise until he was deposed.
    In the interests of political correctness I should mention Queens Mary and Anne, who lasted out their reigns despite being Stewarts.
    Charles the second left a number of illegitiment children whom he made Dukes to give them a start in life e.g. Duke of Monmouth (who also got the chop), Plymouth, Cleveland, St. Albans, Richmond, Northumberland etc. (The Queen’s grandson Prince William, Duke of Cambridge would be the first descendant of Charles 2 to be on the British throne should he succeed).
    Perhaps Trump should use the precedent and refer to any children as Duke of Texas, Duke of Maryland, Duke of Wisconsin etc. Although he should be careful if any Congressman is named Paul Revere.

  10. Larry Ledwick says:

    Felonia von Pantsuit on a recent post (not here).

    That is a new one to me, but there are lots of ad hoc aliases like that which are instantly associated with certain politicians. President Obama is not infrequently obliquly mentions as something along the lines of :

    Mr. mom’s jeans

    Such slightly sarcastic politician nick names are quiet common in America.

  11. dennisambler says:

    There was a comedy program in the UK a few years back, where the wife of the late magician Paul Daniels was a guest. The host asked her, “Now what first attracted you to millionaire Paul Daniels?”

  12. A C Osborn says:

    Yes it is all Trumps fault, just like all the other billionaires, Screen Stars, Pop Stars, Sports Stars.
    Nothing to do with all the groupies and women throwing themselves at them, willing to jump in to bed with them at a moments notice.
    Especially if it can further their careers or get them a very lavish life style.
    Absolutely nothing new under the sun.

  13. E.M.Smith says:

    @Graeme No.3:

    I wouldn’t say real common, but I’ve heard it a few times. And yes, it refers to Billy’s ball & chain…

    Ms. Clinton

    Shrillary

    The Harpy In Chief

    Madam POTUS Wannabe

  14. E.M.Smith says:

    @A.C.Osborn:

    So you are telling me that I need to get a few million scraped together and then I, to, will be attractive? If only I’d known….

    ;-)

  15. cdquarles says:

    Felonia von Pantsuit is another name for the Hildebeest (that one’s fairly old and limited in usage now).

  16. cdquarles says:

    About being attractive due to money or the potential of same. I have seen it with my own four eyes applied to others and also personally. Women who wouldn’t have given the four-eyed geeky nerd the time of day came out of the woodwork, throwing themselves at me once a certain event became public knowledge on campus. Women are wired that way. Just as men are. One man can father a lot of babies, but a woman can only bear one pregnancy at a time, and needs time to recover from pregnancy and nursing (if she does that). I knew a woman that gave birth to 20 children, from the same man. Very rare then, pretty much unheard of, now, in the USA. All 20 pregnancies resulted in a full term live birth. Not sure how many survived past that, though. It was a few decades ago.

  17. H.R. says:

    Hillary, aka ‘Cankles.’

    I’ve always had a fondness for that moniker. The pantsuits are worn to hide her serious cankles. Her calves go straight into her feet.

  18. philjourdan says:

    What CNN and the lap dogs forget – is Trump said OK for the tape to be released! Like the “innocent” grandparents who illegally wiretapped Newt Gingrich conspiring to uphold the law, that is all the tape is about.

    But notice how those lap dogs are following Trump’s laser pointer. NOW THAT is the real story.

  19. philjourdan says:

    @CD – Josh Duggar. 19 and counting.

  20. philjourdan says:

    Sorry, Jim and Michelle, Josh is the ham.

  21. Another Ian says:

    E.M.

    “Nothing to do with all the groupies and women throwing themselves at them, willing to jump in to bed with them at a moments notice.”

    IIRC Leon Russell had a song about things like that

    https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/leonrussell/iftheshoefits.html

  22. The problem I have with Trump is that I do not believe anything that comes out of his mouth. I can’t stand up for a president that lies. All. The. Time. If any employee lied to me once in business. I’d fire them. I can’t fire the president. That bothers me. Morality goes beyond the fly.

  23. philjourdan says:

    Yea, Trump is the first person in the history of Politics to lie. Way to go Frank (Norbert).

  24. Hmm, I did not say that. But somehow I feel that he lies way more than what I am used to. But you know what. I don’t lie. So I expect it from those I am dealing with.

  25. I think that the problem is not what he does to or with women. At least not for me. It’s none of my business. But I would not like it if I had contributed money to his campaign and he had used that money to pay off hookers, models, or pay for abortions. That’s not just morally wrong (in my book) but also illegal. And I think that that’s what they are coming after him for.

  26. E.M.Smith says:

    @Norbert:

    The problem I have with “Trump lies” is simple:

    Every time the YSM claims it, I dig in a little and find out it is one of:

    1) They misunderstood him.

    2) They are making shit up from nothing.

    3) He said something else and they are construing it wrongly.

    4) The evidence for a lie is flimsy at best and their presentation questionable.

    5) Trump is doing negotiating ploys / whipsaw the opposition.

    6) Coupled with 1-4, their credibility is zero.

    I can’t name a single, verified, Trump Lie.

    Take the “No” about meeting with Putin (IIRC that was the topic) where they even issued a statement that he was saying “No” to taking questions. Still circulating as a “flip flop lie” even though I’ve seen the interview and he’s clearly telling the person to buzz off. “Thank you, no.”

    Per the “affairs”: I’ve seen no independent evidence they are real, just that some hush money was paid. When you are worth $Billions and running for POTUS and it’s just weeks to the election, $150k to kill a story, even if a fraudulent story, that could toss the election; that’s chump change. I’d do it in a heartbeat. (Though likely with enough documentation to get it back, or get the person doing it into jail / trouble later… )

    Does Trump lie sometimes? I’m sure he does. You can’t live and not lie. ( I tried it once. Pisses people off too much when you say things like “No, I really don’t like your new hairdoo. It makes you look foolish”) Has Trump had an affair? I’d guess yes. Given he’s had a few wives and has an Alpha Male personality. Do I care if he lies about that? Not really. First rule of marriage: Keep the spouse happy.

    The whole “Trump Lies” meme seems to be mostly a media creation. Given that, folks who believe it are most likely just not doing enough critical thinking about what Trump has said and not doing enough verification of claims. So color me highly skeptical on it.

    And no, I won’t be impressed if you turn up a few examples of some statement that was not 100% true. Or him saying “China Evil” just before saying “China our good friend.” That isn’t lying, that’s negotiation tactics 101. First spank the dog, now pet it. Now you are alpha pack leader.

  27. E.M.Smith says:

    Norbert,

    “They” are coming after him because he won and they lost. Nothing more is needed. They are fishing for anything, real or imaginary, that “works”. ANY mud, real or fake, gets tossed. 24 x 7 on the YSM every single day (and night).

    IF you think they just happen to have insider info on what funds were used and that, and only that, was their “motivation”, your naivety is showing…

    It is essential to turn your BS Detector and Skeptical skills up to super high on any complaints about Trump. We’ve got a few months of evidence of crap complaints stacked up, so we know “They” are lying way way more than Trump ever has.

  28. Chuckle. We’re definitely on the opposite side of the Trump spectrum. :). My BS detector is in the red zone when the man speaks. It’s also not good to have a discourse in writing in such a forum – that’ll never resolve each of our sentiments. I can tell you that of all the “Right” posters out there, I have always enjoyed yours as thoughtful and not shallow; that is meant as a compliment. What does YSM stand for? I know the M is Media. I really can’t think of the other two, but that probably just reveals the circles I hang out in….

  29. jim2 says:

    So, Norbert. I guess you abhorred Obummer when he made promises about your medical arrangement?

    In case you still love Obummer, here’s a list of his lies (not that I trust Politifact all that much, but this is a start):

    https://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/

  30. llanfar says:

    @Norbert … Yellow Stream Media

  31. jim2 says:

    Nice paintings, Norbert. Ever watch the movie, “Into the Wild” ?

  32. Hi Jim – thanks for the compliment. Searching me, huh? But how does that connect to “Into the Wild.” Yes. Here is my review: https://norberthaupt.com/2007/10/14/into-the-wild/. I also read the book when it first came out, long before I started reviewing all books I read, and I got way more out of the book than I did the movie – which is usually the case.

  33. Well, first, yes, I had way more respect for Obama than I ever did for Trump. But that is no longer relevant right now. Then, of course, just because Obama made identifiable false statements doesn’t make it right for Trump or anyone else. The lowest bar is not necessarily the most honorable one to jump over.

    I don’t want to elaborate on the ACA. I can tell you, as an employer, it didn’t affect us much, it least in our case. Premiums went up during the ACA years, but they had gone up in the 20 years before, and if I were to graph the increases, I suspect I would not even see where the ACA came and went. So, no, Obama didn’t affect my medical arrangements, even though I didn’t “care” for the ACA in general.

    I DID appreciate that he did SOMETHING about healthcare reform, which nobody else did in any substantive manner in the 30 years before Obama. Everyone else just complained. As Trump said, healthcare is complicated. I never thought that just disassembling current systems that people rely on is productive. I expect our politicians to reform them in some meaningful way.

    One more thought: I personally try not to “abhor” or “love” politicians. I generally try to respect them, if that is defensible. And of course, there is an inverse: Some people I “disrespect.” That does not mean I hate them, it just means that if I can, I will work on getting them unelected….

    And here I am doing what I said above I don’t think one should do: Engage in political discourse on a public forum.

  34. philjourdan says:

    “But you know what. I don’t lie. “

    And that is a lie. Everyone does. Even if they are the innocent little white lies. You beclown yourself in your impotent denials.

    And try googling the definition of hyperbole.

  35. Simon Derricutt says:

    Norbert – it seems to me that lying is a standard thing for most politicians (I don’t know of any that don’t). Similarly, contracts can be argued over because a comma is in the wrong place, and lawyers will try to impose the most-beneficial interpretation for their clients, even though that may be against what the overall thrust on the wording might mean to most people. We expect adverts to lie to us in some way, by overplaying the good things (chew this gum and get an amazing sex-life…) and avoiding mentioning any negatives (the extra tooth-whitening components, additives, and sweeteners in the gum may have side effects we don’t know about). Real Men Smoke Camels (though barbecued camel may not be to your taste).

    As such, voting for someone because they don’t lie may be tricky – they probably haven’t been found out yet, which may also point to them being cleverer than average so might be a good thing. Maybe better to try to select someone who does what they promised instead. It’s the results that you want, and the fairly-minor personal problems/failures of the person just aren’t that important. Here in France, had I been able to I’d have voted for Sarkozy (and against Hollande) even though I know he’s somewhat corrupt, since although he’d have got a bit richer it would have been better for business and we’d all have been better off as a result. Macron is far from perfect, but probably better than the alternatives this time. It’s a matter of minimising damage, at least to the best we can predict. Macron is keeping his promise to re-vamp the SNCF and cut the cost of government, at least. If he also manages to cut regulations and make France more competitive, then he’ll have done well.

    For Trump, I’d point to him doing deals on a handshake and sticking to them. He’s had disagreements and detractors, and people complaining he’s shafted them, but It’s quite likely that those people didn’t deliver what they promised and reaped the rewards for the screw-up. Personally, I don’t like the bling and narcissm, or the need to trumpet any achievement as better than anything ever done before in the history of the World, but I can’t deny he is actually achieving a whole lot of things that are good for the USA and its people. I’m not used to any politician keeping their election promises with such regularity.

    Healthcare is a natural rip-off. After all, you either pay the charge demanded or you die (or live in pain). Medicines in the US have a much larger profit-margin than elsewhere in the world, and the tendency for people to sue if they don’t get a good result (and win large amounts of compensation) means that medical facilities need to carry a lot of insurance and it’s often claimed on, so the insurance cost is a large proportion of the bill. Add to that the various other schemes to treat the people who don’t pay into a medical insurance, and the medical insurance bill simply has to be high. Really fixing that to make it affordable for all may mean that a lot of legal claims on doctors need to be disallowed, and a general acceptance that there is a certain percentage failure-rate with any medical intervention. Only sue and/or disbar doctors where a panel of practising doctors agree that there was an unacceptable failure to meet standards. The reality is that you only go to the doctor when there’s something wrong, and they should use their best efforts to fix that problem, and it may not work. If you take out all the excess profits of the insurance companies and drug companies, you could maybe get the medical cost per person down to a more European level where nearly everyone could afford it. It’s a big problem, and will take a while to fix since those corporations making lots of money from it also can buy a lot of politicians.

    For Obama, I’d have voted for him in 2008 since he promised change and looked capable of delivering. Maybe in 2012, too, given that he was a bit hamstrung and the competition looked worse. I don’t doubt he went into the job with good intentions. The results of his policies seem however to have been detrimental to industry and race relations, and to have divided the USA down the middle. The rich got richer, and the poor poorer. Maybe better to have a pragmatist rather than an idealist in the job.

    Politics is a pain in the butt sorting out the truths, semi-truths and lies. I think the result of Trump will be good for the USA in general, and though there may be a few losers the majority will win both in the USA and in the rest of the world. Nice thing about Chiefio is that the people who contribute actually think about it with a basis of personal knowledge, so I’ve learnt a lot. Since I’m nowhere near wise on this subject, take my opinions as what I currently think from accumulated information so far, and subject to change when new information comes in.

  36. jim2 says:

    Norbert. I didn’t “search” you. Just clicked on you name, which contains a link to your page.

  37. philjourdan says:

    “Well, first, yes, I had way more respect for Obama than I ever did for Trump. “

    And that is why you hate Trump’s supposed lies. We can debate the devastation of the Obama years versus the growth of the Trump years, but somehow I do not think you want a debate. You have your hatred and it keeps you warm. So I see no reason to get into a tit for tat.

    Nor is an anecdote evidence of the benefit of a lie, or the malice of a lie (you can keep your doctor or plan costs going down or more jobs since 1990 or…..). So there is no point in trotting out various anecdotes, that for the most part are unprovable, to defend or criticize the machinations of a decidedly flawed program that was not supposed to have an impact on the anecdotes in the first place.

    Unlike you, I do not respect a person because I am told to. I respect the office of President, and did during the Obama regime. But as Obama is the epitome of the millennials – only getting participation trophies for doing nothing – he never earned my respect for any action (and words do not earn respect). On the other hand, I freely admit I did vote for Trump – but not for the reasons you suspect (nor will I get into them now as they are non sequiturs). But I fully expected NOTHING from Trump, and he did not have my respect on November 8, 2016.

    But since then he has done plenty to earn my respect. And not all he has done has earned my respect, but not surprisingly, even the things I may not agree with before hand, I found myself marveling at his results that did not reflect the rhetoric. (case in point, EU tariffs – where are they now?). So Yes, I do respect Trump – not for what he said. Not for who he is. But for what he has DONE. Which even the most ardent Obama supporter has trouble enunciating his accomplishments without qualifiers. And the qualifiers are subjective.

    We are treated to daily diatribes by talking bobble heads about how we are stupid, idiots, deplorables and of course the inevitable, racists, homophobes (always used incorrectly), misogynists, etc. And for those with no critical thought process, they are the empty vessels that accept all that is fed to them without question, and of course they believe it (including the idiots spouting the stupidity daily – but then they are paid for their plastic smiles, not any matter between their ears).

    But the problem is, the left is running out of those empty headed vessels to lie to. I will never convince my SIL that Trump is not evil. But she knows I am none of those things the media says of the Trump supporters. She has known me longer than that. So there is a cognizant dissonance ringing in her head. To resolve it, she does not think about it. But there are more and more that do think about it, and like that thread on the sweater, they have to pull it to fix it.

    Hence where #walkaway came from. You can continue to lie, but it gets harder to not trip up (as Jim2 showed you with the participation trophy president). And even the average intelligent people start to ask questions. Questions that lies cannot answer. Of course those less than average intelligence never do ask the questions and they do remain blissfully ignorant. But there are just not enough of them to win every election.

    Nor will there ever be. You can hate Trump all you want. But you do not have to play the fool as do most of the rest on the left. How do you think Trump wins all the time? He has to have help. And the help comes from his enemies who are either not smart enough or not honest enough to understand they have underestimated their opponent.

    So which are you?

  38. jim2 says:

    Norbert, read your review and I’ll get the book.

    I’ve watched almost all the survival shows. My favorite is Alone. It shows that even with a moderately good kit, your long term survival is in peril. A couple of guns go a long way to promote survival in the wild.

    But if one get stranded accidentally, Bear Grills’ approach probably is the best. High tail it out of there and find civilization. If that isn’t possible due to isolation, you are probably dead unless the location is a tropical island or some other place with a lot of readily available food.

  39. andysaurus says:

    Don’t feed the trolls.

  40. My choice of words was wrong. It was in jest. Still, what made you ask about Into the Wild? That connection puzzled me.

  41. You spent some time here, and it deserves more than a one-line answer. I respect that. Right now, morning at work, there isn’t time, but I will return.

  42. philjourdan says:

    “You would like “Earth Abides”. “

    read that book probably 40 years ago. It was not bad (I do like SciFi – Asimov and Clark being my favorite). A little light, but he wanted to make a point (the same point Michael Creighton did). Regardless of the foibles of man, the Earth abides.

    As does the hammer.

  43. jim2 says:

    Norbert – I just took a quick glance at your page and noticed the Portal to the Forgotten. Primitive skills reminded me of Into the Wild. It’s just a memory thing, nothing more.

  44. llanfar says:

    I’ll add Earth Abides to my list. Just finished the re-read of Greg Bear’s Forge of God (and follow-on Anvil of Stars) where the earth does not survive…

  45. E.M.Smith says:

    @Phil:

    “they do remain blissfully ignorant”

    Only until it dawns on them that they have lost. Then TDS sets in. Trump Derangement Syndrome and they are anything but blissful…

    @Anysaurus:

    It isn’t Trollish to indulge in polite challenge of positions. It can be energizing to be challenged and questioned. Only when it’s repeated despite adequate response, or done blindly from hate and with empty attack is it clearly Trollish. Just sayin’… don’t want an echo chamber… My tendency to boredom trumps my desire for ego strokes ;-)

    @Per Primitive Survival:

    It entirely depends on your skill set and mind set. Level your attempts to the age the stuff around you allows and you can survive, but you need to know the tech of that level. So if you have matches and steel knives and a musket (think 12 gauge) and are wearing leathers; you can level at about 1700 and start making a minimal shelter and doing hunter / gather things. If dropped in the desert of Utah barefoot with nothing but minimal clothes, you must level at about 20,000 BC and stone age tech. (One “Survival Skills” teacher at BYU taught this and the final exam was being dropped into the desert of Utah barefoot and needing to walk to the exit many miles away over a few days.. so it isn’t a hypothetical.) For me, I keep enough “stuff” in the house and car that unless I’m flying somewhere; I can level at about the 1920’s worse case and usually closer the the 1950s era.

    You are never ever without resources. Everything is a resource. I’ve watched a video where a guy built a mud stove / still and distilled sea water to fresh. His resources? Mud, some bamboo, a couple of rocks. Made a clay pot to carry the water and another to act as still pot with a small bamboo stem as condenser (and sea water around it to cool). Deserts. Islands with no fresh water and some mud. If those are survivable most places are.

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/everything-from-mud/

    All it takes is some preparatory skills practice and a certain mind set. It was this pattern of knowing that caused me to ask what kind of cooking place I could make post-quake if all my “gear” were lost and my fuel supplies gone.

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2013/02/24/g70-stove-pictures-and-use-report/

    Post quake there will be lots of down chimney bricks and broken up wood structures. Everything is a resource… so make it a stove. I now no longer need a BBQ, camp stove, fuel, etc. etc. Just a pile of bricks and anything flammable.

    Given all that, I reject the notion that a person can not survive in the wild alone.

    Hard? Yes. Need some previous education on primitive skills and the right mindset? Absolutely. Would most folks perish? Yup. But for those that think and prepare, the entire surroundings are full of resources and a paradise of opportunities.

    It is better to have a tube tent and space blanket in your car bag than be without them, but you can do OK with a brush lean-to and leaves stuffed in your sleeves and pant legs. Just a matter of leveling to the time period of the resources…

  46. jim2 says:

    On Alone, one participant turned to pine bark as a food resource. I don’t know if it was the pine bark, probably was, but he got so constipated he had to tap out. There are some issues that can blind side you, and which you didn’t anticipate. Food is usually the big issue after a few months. Again, it depends on exactly where you are, what weapons you have, what traps you can make, and the time of year.

  47. D. J. Hawkins says:

    I have to say, I’m with you on this one, E.M. Well actually, there’s not much you post I don’t agree with, but I’ll say that I just don’t give a solid, 24-karat, 10 foot high, flying…puck if he’s been stepping out. I used to care. Leaders should lead by example, I used to think. But, the leftards have worn me down. I’m just going to throw Bill Clinton in their face anytime they bleat about Trump. No, actually, I’m going to beat them about the head and shoulders with Bill Clinton when they get snarky about the Donald. Enough being polite. I have a mean streak a mile wide that I’ve kept tightly under control most of my life. Now that I have an excuse, watch out, Snowflakes!

  48. It’s actually frightening how dependent we are on infrastructure and “civilization” for our sheer survival. I am fairly well read and educated. I am interested in this subject, but I think my chances would be fairly low. Never hunted or trapped. Never even fished. Never owned a fire-arm. Only advantage I have, I am a climber and strong hiker. So I might be able to get “out of there” but if there is no civilization to get to, I’d be toast.

  49. I bristled a bit when there was an implication that I might be trolling. E.M’s defense was welcome. We’re all in our cubbies, and often do not see outside. Engaging in challenging questions, asking for clarification, often helps tremendously. Granted, I am very far to the left of many posters here, but I definitely am crucially aware of the fact that “I don’t know shit” about most subjects, and dialog, questions, sometimes challenges, hopefully without insults, is productive. I get turned off when called “leftard” since that is a denigrating label and does not contribute to learning and growth. There are two sides, hell, ten sides to everything, and I for one seek to see more than one.

  50. E.M.Smith says:

    @Norbert:

    It isn’t that hard to learn some basic survival / self reliance skills. Just go camping and gradually work down the list of equipment used reducing it one skill at a time. Get a book on plant identification and learn to spot the edibles and medicinals. Plants are far more important than killing squirrels for survival. I’ve seen fields of tons of mustard greens and folks complaining there was no food…

    Per people calling “Troll”:

    Thus my “No insults to the person” rule. Note I also talk about “Trollish behaviour” and do not call Troll at folks (unless it is undeniable and blatant).

    Hell, I get people insulting me for being a “Right wing Republican” – yet I am not a Republican

    (registered independent and would reg as Libertarian if anything) and have many liberal / left views: don’t mind “domestic partners” laws just don’t like it called marriage, have kids with “two moms” via being a ‘donor Dad’, don’t care if you smoke dope and think war on drugs ought to be eliminated, I’d be fine with polygamy though the spouse would not let me participate ;-) and think Big Business need strong regulations – though not to excess.

    I’m probably one of a small few people who voted for both Obama and Trump. (ABC voter, Anyone But Clinton… due to her corruption more than POV) I’ve often called myself a Kennedy Democrat & Reagan Republican – both had the same policies and would be rejected by their parties today. I’ve said the Democrats want to control the back pocket of my pants (wallet) and the Republicans want to control the front of my pants while I want them both OUT of my pants.

    Oh Well. Argue for the middle and both sides toss rocks at you.

  51. Simon Derricutt says:

    Norbert – I presume you’re new here. If so, you’ll find a whole smorgasbord of different subjects to interest you. It seems unlikely that any of us will actually need to hunt, trap, fish or farm in order to survive, but it’s nice to know some of the useful things that can be done with materials at hand. Maybe knowing how to make a gun could be useful at some point. Easier maybe to make a bow and a few arrows.

    Conversations are exchanging information. No point in starting them if you intend to hold onto your ideas and persuade the other person to follow them. When I first came here I accepted the human-caused Global Warming idea as being the consensus view. Get the real data, and change your mind accordingly. Still, when we only hear one side of an argument, and that is repeated heavily on all media and everyone else seems to accept it as being true, then we tend to accept it. As Milo Minderbinder said, if everyone thought that, I’d be a fool to think any different. Sir!

    I certainly don’t see a good reason why when Obama and Hillary Clinton “pressed the reset button” with Putin, it was a Good Thing, and yet now Trump wants to sort out relations with Russia, even talking to Putin is stated as treason by McCain. Who wants a war with Russia, and why? I really like the way countries are different, and even subsections of countries and counties can be different from each other. We can visit and learn that there are different ways of doing things. If the whole world is mixed together and has a common culture (that New World Order) then it’s pretty obvious that there won’t be enough diversity to survive any major upset. The advantage of diversity is that a challenge (climatic, natural disaster, political) will only take out a few cultures, leaving the rest to continue and to help the problem areas to recover. If there is one culture and one government, then it follows that one severe problem will wipe everything out, and there’ll be no-one to help pick up the pieces.

    The world would be far less interesting if everyone thought the same things and looked the same. You may find political stuff here you’ll agree with after thinking about it, but the technical stuff is almost certain to be interesting.

  52. p.g.sharrow says:

    @Norbert; It appears to me you are a “City” man and comfortable in that environment. I am a “Country” man and prefer to live in a country environment. City people tend to be collectivists that expect the city to provide for their needs and protection as well as those of their neighbors. Country people expect to provide for their own needs as well as help their neighbors on a personal basis.
    City people expect to live by “City rules” of the collective and country people expect to live by the “Golden rule” of good neighbor. The problem in California is that in a Democracy of one man one vote, City rules are being enforced on countrymen and we resent it!
    A cityman visits the country and says, my isn’t this beautiful, I want to live here. But it is smelly and chaotic, I want city rules here! I want city convenience here! I want city protections here.
    Countryman in the city, there is far too much noise, too much confusion, too many rules, and as my youngest sister said, when for the first time,confronted by San Francisco streets at noon,
    “My god, where did all the people come from!”.
    If you are a Cityman and want to visit the country, Welcome, enjoy your visit and then go home to your city. Please, please, please, do not expect me to live in my country by city rules!…pg

  53. Larry Ledwick says:

    @Norbert; One of the things that make this blog unique and such a pleasure to participate in, is you can have productive and useful discussions with people from all over the world (literally) that are respectful and gracious. Many on here, I do not agree with on some issues but I can see their point of view and respect, it just like they see mine and respect it also.

    One of the toughest things for people to learn is that in real life, there are not black and white test question answers to real world problems. Often solutions are educated and reasoned choices of less than ideal options and choices between undesirable side effects.

    Welcome to the conversations and please tickle our curiosity with things you find interesting. We often start conversations at A and end up at H or Z as the conversation slowly crawls through the process of discovery and analysis as each of us throw out our view.

    My view is no more “Correct” than anyone else but we each grant the other participants their fair opportunity to share their view and express our take on it. Sometimes we agree in large part and sometimes we get 15 different views on what is or should be.

    There are lots of aspects of survival during sudden changes in social conditions and not all involve things like fishing or hunting. In some situation an essential surival skill might be knowing how to looks something up in a library, not all survival skills are physical tasks and mechanical processes. Many of the classic survival skills are just historically important survival skills that we each should know a bit about even if we never have to use them.

    I have never been much interested in fishing (it bores the crap out of me), I find other ways to zone out and have my think time, I don’t need a displacement activity like fishing as a gate way to day dreaming or subconscious problem solving. I generally do that by just taking a long walk – but as a survival skill, I recognize its value and I do have some basic fishing gear and enjoy listening to people who “do fishing” to learn some of the lessons they have learned engaged in that hobby.

    I also don’t hunt – although I have and I can and I would have absolutely no problem doing it for food if necessary.

    Many of us here are jack of all trades type folks who are “handy” and have the basic skill set tools to solve most any problem we might be faced with to our satisfaction. I think most of us here prefer to have some “agency” of our own and not become too dependent on some other person or group to provide essential services to us, so generally tend toward being at least rural suburban or country in life style/mind set rather than city mind set where there is some outside agency that handles every essential function.

  54. E.M.Smith says:

    Per PGs point:

    Most folks fantasy about survival is “all alone in the wilderness”. The fact is that it is damn hard to find a place where you are “all alone in the wilderness” anymore. I must drive about 6 hours to reach such a place, and even then walk a few hours to get away from the parking lot…

    For most of us, we need to know how to survive during times of trouble in an urban or sub-urban location. (Thus my concentration on things like post-quake stove making and enough stored food to make it a month or so until delivery systems get fixed). To that end, there’s a book that’s pretty good on just that problem:

    https://www.amazon.com/Browns-Field-Guide-Suburban-Survival/dp/0425091724/

    Instead of things like how to make a sand filter for stream water it talks about finding water in water heater tanks and opening stand pipe valves.

    I do find it just a bit funny when folks in places like New York City wax long about hunting deer and building lean-to shelters. Things they will never ever need to do unless it happens during a vacation 1000 miles away…

    For most folks, they need an entirely different set of skills / preparations in the urban world. More “stuff stored in place” as your major risk is failure of the “stuff delivery systems” and means to defend it; along with better skills at not attracting attention (where in the wilderness you want to attract attention to be found and rescued).

    I’m in the ‘burbs, so a bit of both. Decent food / water storage, but also ready to “collect squirrels” if needed (as much to keep them from eating my Victory Garden as for food supply themselves). BTW, traps usually are far more effective than guns and they don’t get consumed in the using.

    In most cities, trapping pigeons would keep you fed for several days and is easy; but having 10 lbs each of rice and lentils in jars would keep you fed for 20 days and takes almost no money or space. About $20 and a few 1/2 gallon jars.

  55. jim2 says:

    My interest in primitive survival skills isn’t so I’m prepared for the next Zombie Apocalypse. For me, it is just another area of knowledge in which I have an interest. It’s given me a greater appreciation and deeper understanding of our ancestor’s (ancient and more recent) skills, trials, and tribulations.

    In a true wilderness location, if the humidity is high and materials damp, it might take days to start a fire by bow and drill even if one’s done it hundreds of times elsewhere. Many times fire means potable water. If you can figure out the right materials in that location, it can make the difference between life and death.

    On Naked and Afraid XL, there were a good bit of social dynamics that were interesting. For example, the beta male freaked out when the alpha male showed up. Of course, that happens anywhere there are humans; but it was interesting to see it in a (somewhat) survival setting.

  56. Ah, we have much in common. I am registered independent so I get the propaganda from both sides. Over the years, I voted in every presidential election since 1987 (when I became a citizen) and always (every time) voted for the loser. Hmmm. (I am a Perot voter). Then, Obama came and my record changed. Two winners. In 2016, I voted for Clinton, not because I thought that was a good idea, but I abhorred voting for Trump. There you have it.

  57. My experience with “wilderness” is a bit different. I live in North County San Diego, and I can drive less than an hour and be “out there” and see no other person. I guess you need to know where to go. I did a hike one Sunday early morning alone in the Cuyamacas, and after about an hour in I literally freaked out. I had this feeling I was being watched by a Cougar, and it wasn’t going away. I had no spray, no weapons, other than my hiking poles. I turned around and hiked out. There was no evidence of any wildlife, just this freaky feeling.

    Now, this after having hiked in the American Southwest (and Montana) for 40 years, and never ever having encountered a bear or a cougar.

    My point: I am grateful and excited about the Southwest and it’s access to remote nature.

  58. Thanks for the @Norbert posts. I read them all, and there is too much to respond to all at once.

  59. E.M.Smith says:

    Yeah, I voted for Perot too. Anything to break up the power monopoly.

    Where I am in Silicon Valley, it’s all city or farm land anywhere south, north, or east until you reach the Sierra Nevada and even then you must search a while to find “remote” without folks running cattle on the foothills on ranches or having “cabins in the woods” up to about Donner Pass…

    Going west, in theory, there are bits of wilderness in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Unfortunately, lots of it is owned by folks who live there and what is public is where the 4 MILLION people in the SF Bay Area go to get away from it all (and run back into it all…)

    35 years ago hiked for several hours into Big Sur for remote camping… set up camp. Discovered 2 other groups within earshot of us and one visible… Now will be much much worse.

    BTW, ‘behind’ (west) Stanford there are some hiking / jogging trails along the hills. Edge of suburbia kind of place and you can see SLAC & Stanford facilities from there in places. (Also many big mansions in the best bits). There’s been at least one jogger lady killed and chewed on there by a mountain lion and IIRC a few more “close calls”. We’ve also got more pet “disappearances” in the suburbs near the open areas and several cases of parents seeing mountain lions eyeing their kids in the back yard… also IIRC a bike rider in So.Cal was munched by a big cat on a bike trail near the hills. Eventually folks will re-learn why the original settlers of California shot the mountain lions instead of leaving them to munch at will.

    Personally, I’d not go into the forest without some form of protection any more. The repopulation of bears and big cats makes it a dice roll. Still fairly good odds, but constantly getting worse for the prey animals (us) as the predator population “recovers”. Minimum would be Bear Spray (and a helmet / neck protection as the cats attack from behind / above and you will NOT hear them nor have time to deploy it) and preferred would be that + a 9mm or better sidearm. Hunting and carry laws be damned when it’s my skin on the P.C. Altar for munched offering… (“Shoot, shovel, & forget” is better than “News report of hiker who died of ‘natural causes’ and was scavenged…”) Machete optional… or a “camping hatchet”… When the mountain lions have reached the far side of the SF Bay population centers from their point of origin in the further mountains, then they are everywhere at all “remote” and you ARE in the territory of one of them (and just hoping he’s on the far side of it from you.) “But hope is not a strategy. -E.M.Smith”…

  60. Larry Ledwick says:

    The predators are becoming accustomed to humans and are gradually infiltrating into the urban areas (especially at night)

    When I grew up here in Colorado, there had not been a case of human predation by mountain lions in living memory and the last grizzly bear was killed in south central Colorado in 1979 prior kill was 1951.

    https://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/man-recounts-a-fight-for-life-with-colorados-last-grizzly/

    But it is only a matter of time, the mountain lions have now killed at least 2 people in Colorado in the last 30 years, a jogger up near Idaho Springs, and carried off a small kid hiking with parents in the Rocky Mountain Park area, There are probably others (hikers never found).

    Scott Lancaster, 18, male (1991 Idaho Springs)
    Mark Miedema, 10, male (1997 RMNP)

    I have also had that couger following you feeling on a hike. I was hiking up to a hill top in the very early morning hours (4:00 am in January or February) to get pictures of planned demolition on I-70 from that vantage point. Colder than hell, full moon and snow crust on 8-10 inches of snow. Halfway up the hill I got that feeling you describe, hair standing up on back of neck. I looked up at the moon and my first thought was “stalking moon”, I stopped and turned around and carefully watched my back trail and then kept turning around every few steps the rest of the way up that hill. I never saw anything but all my spidey senses were alive.

    A few years later something woke me up in the middle of the night (at the time I lived on a rural property north of Golden Colorado). The echo in my mind as I awoke was of a mountain lion scream (we had deer and lots of rabbit in the area), I went out and stood on the back porch for a bit with a 12 ga shot gun, (my neighbor had several head of horses that rented a paddock area from me). The horses were agitated, and milling around a bit, but again I never saw anything but my tingle alarms told me not to go out to the creek behind the house and pasture area which my intellectual mind wanted to do – my primitive mind was ringing warning bells.

    It is only a matter of time, we now have moose well down in to central Colorado which can be quite dangerous if in mating season or just pushed too hard, from the restocking effort in North Park and the wolves from Yellow stone will be here in the next 10 years or so. It is common to have reports of black bears in rural suburban back yards now, as they lose fear of man due to very light hunting pressure.

  61. E.M.Smith says:

    Saratoga is a very upscale town that fronts on the Santa Cruz Mnts. here. It also reaches down to Lawrence Expressway (think highly urban traffic jams every day commuter road). So not exactly rural. The hills behind it have lots of daily cars, motorcycles on weekends love Hwy 9. People all over and VERY expensive homes in the “hills”.

    Every year we have lots of deer spotted and a black bear or two… Given that mountain lion are in those same hills just about 15 miles north at Palo Alto, you know their range includes there. Especially given the deer. (We saw 1/2 dozen of them during the daytime driving to a winery where my daughter was married in Los Gatos, next town over from Saratoga and spanning I-880 / Hwy-17 as it leaves San Jose and enters the Santa Cruz Mountains foothills. We’re talking maybe 1/2 mile to 2 miles from the freeway on the urbanized side. Lots of lion food.). I’ve seen 2 black bear there and I was mostly just rarely visiting folks out there.

    I’m pretty sure we’re eventually going to have some truly horrific events ( if we’ve not had them already and the media keep it quiet as it doesn’t fit the green narrative). Just a matter of time now.

    Given the 9th ruling on open carry, I’m hoping someone does open carry for lion defense and gets busted, then gets let go with a stern warning to the cops that it is the law now. Then I can comfortably go back into the woods for walks… with my .357 Ruger in holster… and bear spray.

    As I’m prone to doing that walking alone to think (as opposed to in a pack…) I’m a prime target as prey. Being a bit deaf is not helpful either… So it’s a reasonable concern.

    FWIW, I’ve seen mountain lion in “natural settings” in zoos. In the kind of dusky to light brown colors we have here about 3/4 of the year, you can be looking right at one and not see it. Only if you make eye contact have you got a hope of really seeing it.

    Frankly, I’m finding myself more comfortable with moving to Gator country than walking in the wood here. Just need to stay away from waters edge and not dangle bits over the water (especially at dawn and dusk). The gators are ambush predators so just stay away from their preferred ambush. They don’t stalk you like Mountain Lion do. Besides, I can get a carry permit in Florida basically just by applying…

  62. philjourdan says:

    @Norbert

    “I bristled a bit when there was an implication that I might be trolling. “

    I meant no implication, and indeed that is why my long comment to you (I do not make long comments to trolls). So if you got that implication from my initial snarky comment, or follow ups, I apologize. It is clear we are miles apart politically, but your comments, while reflecting that, do not have the markings of a troll.

  63. philjourdan says:

    “I’m probably one of a small few people who voted for both Obama and Trump. “

    Raises hand here. I did also. I did not vote for McCain, but I very much liked Palin (I just do not vote for Vice President). I will be honest and say that my vote for Obama was in the Primary, not general (voted Constitutional Candidate in 08).

  64. philjourdan says:

    I will say that I was going to vote for Perot in 92, but then he went nuts and I backed off (I voted 3rd party as I would not vote for “Read my Lips – no new Taxes” Bush after that stab in the back).

  65. llanfar says:

    Another Perot voter here. Main reason for voting Trump was ABC (if Bernie was the choice, I may have gone that way). I was put off by some of his moves. Not a Goldman Saks fan. But he has been consistently delivering on promises in the face of overwhelming negativity from the YSM – I am now firmly on board.

  66. cdquarles says:

    I never liked Perot. I got screwed by his company by either late payments or no payments too many times. EDS, the worst company I dealt with, outside of CHAMPUS/VA. I never got paid by CHAMPUS/VA. Plus, several of my family member were badly mistreated by the VA. At least with truly private companies, and some government/private partnerships, I did not get treated so badly. Remember, Medicare is one of those. Medicare does very little, beyond writing contracts. Medicare pays contractors, and those contractors pay the people who do the real work.

  67. philjourdan says:

    @CD – Never cared for his company either – but only from the perspective of working for them (I never dealt with them from a customer standpoint). But I did not hold that against him. When he started out, I was on his team! But then when it actually looked like he would win (or at least throw the election into the house), he got cold feet and did the Pat Paulson routine! That is why I did not vote for him.

  68. H.R. says:

    @Norbert: Be sure to visit and comment regularly here. You’ll find that commenters here are not a monolithic block of think-alikes. At the moment, it seems to me that most who comment here are supporters of President Trump in part or in whole. Just in this thread alone, you can see where the commenters have come to support President for different reasons and with varying degrees of support.

    If you read here a while and care to pigeonhole the participants, IMO the best categorization that would capture the bulk of us would be ‘Classical Liberals.’ (And I won’t be surprised or hurt if I get some pushback for the preceding sentence. That’s how it works around these parts.) The added bonus is that E.M. has commenters from other countries that contribute their ‘views from the outside.’
    .
    .
    @llanfar – I grew up with Trump in the news and saw him as a self-promoting blowhard. I never watched The Apprentice, though I stopped to watch 3-4 minutes a few times over the years a I channel-surfed.

    I credit Diamond and Silk with getting me to start paying attention to candidate Trump. My wife was watching a campaign rally and some network was interviewing them. My wife hollered to me to “Come check out these two black women. They are a hoot!” Well, they are a hoot and they gave good reasons for their support for candidate Trump and they were clearly off the Democrat Plantation. So I started paying attention to candidate Trump’s campaign promises and figured that if he could do only a quarter of what he promised, America would be a much better place.

    I particularly liked that he would not be beholden to the usual Powers That Be for his election, if he won the election. The concept of a Uniparty kleptocracy was clear to me going back several years, and was even more obvious during the campaign and continuing to this day.

    I was always registered as ‘Independent’ and in our state, you must be registered (R) or (D) to vote in the primaries. For the first time, I registered as a Republican so I could vote for candidate Trump in the primary. At that time, it was Trump, Cruz, or Kasich and I was not on the Trump Train, but I firmly a Never Cruz and Never Kasich voter. They were obviously Uniparty and had been for som time. (Not everyone knows this, but did you know that Kasich’s father was a mailman? I kid you not. 😜 Also, he can stuff a whole pancake into his mouth at one time. 😜)

    Anyhow, through old interviews, both video and in print, I found that he has been preparing his strategy and solutions for a Trump Presidency for about 30 years. As far as his policies and agenda (MAGA) goes, he is not making it up as he goes along. Where he is flexible is in his options for implementing his agenda, which IMO, is why he seems to be chaotic in his approach. I liken it to him knowing what he wants, so he throws a bunch of flash-bangs into the room and in the confusion, he is able to get his desired result, since he knows it’s all smoke and noise. Keep ’em off balance. It works.

    I won’t be happy with everything President Trump does, but I know where the Trump Train is headed Economically and Constitutionally and those tracks the train runs on are pointed at a destination I support.

  69. E.M.Smith says:

    Just a sidebar on Saratoga and Mnt. Lions:

    The reason I know there must be Mountain Lions in Saratoga is that Palo Alto is on the peninsula with San Francisco and Saratoga is at the base of the peninsula. Since we know there is a mountain lion in the hills behind Palo Alto, we know it got there by walking past Saratoga in the hills behind it… Didn’t swim a few miles across the S.F. Bay and didn’t cross the Golden Gate Bridge, so not a lot more options…

    Per Trump, Perot, etc.:

    I’ve generally found that the most effective managers are NOT the ones you find most likable or who are the most open about their plans (i.e. they can keep a secret and plot their strategy in private.) One of THE hardest things I ever had to do was to learn that sometimes as a Manager, I simply HAD to be sneaky, underhanded, and secretive.

    I still do it to the absolute minimum possible. Yet there are times it is essential. I was entrusted with the layoff list on a half dozen occasions. I had to keep it secret. More than that, I had to not tip off my own staff which of them I had put on that list. On another occasion a “Nice Realtor” called me up to discuss our intent to sublet part of our corporate building (when I was Dir. of Facilities so my turf). He fished me a bit about a particular company and I expressed some annoyance at them traipsing through our building to get to theirs behind us. Then nothing. Couple of weeks later the VP announces (Surprise!) we are subletting to them. He had bypassed me and was actually representing that other company while not being upfront about it. Lesson learned, lie to the next one about what you think until you fish them for their representation…

    My point: After a few dozen of those you learn that it is essential to NOT leak information about your intent and plans, not be “open and up front”, and to expect folks to try to bypass you and work various kinds of entrapment and worse. Everyone, even that Nice Realtor on the phone, is in some way potentially out to get you.

    So when I hear Trump talking in circles and saying sentences that start out with an informed tone and then shift to mushy words ( “some number of” and “a huge” …) I can hear that “deny your opponent information” kicking in. The “Stupid” is just smart in camo. He’s multi-tracking the talk so his supporters hear what they need and his attackers get confusion.

    So we all learn to do a certain amount of “Show”. Call it a lie if you want, but it is posturing for effect and communicating only what is needed to only those who ought to have it. An essential part of the job for all management, more so at executive levels. So Trump-as-Showman is just Trump-as-Manager on stage. Similarly, Trump-as-asshole in the face of the EU then flipping to Trump-as-Buddy to the EU is just normal business posturing.

    That politicians don’t “get it” and that News Talking Heads don’t get it; that doesn’t surprise me at all. They are not executive managers.

  70. cdquarles says:

    It was pretty simple for me, about Mr. Ross Perot. Why should I trust you to be CEO of the USA’s federal government, since I can’t trust you, as CEO of EDS, to do right by me? True enough, EDS likely was constrained by their own contract and I’m sure he didn’t get into the gritty details 24/7; but still. I comply with your contract with me, but I don’t get paid? Sorry, no promotion to an elected position from me. If others do vote you in, so be it. I’m not going to trust you to do the right thing. Trump never cheated me. Perot did.

  71. cdquarles says:

    Another thing, and that’s about ‘self-promotion’. If you’ve ever been employed as a salesman, you have to do ‘self-promotion’, in some form. Good ones sell honesty. Bad ones don’t last, because they don’t sell honesty. Being a ‘blow-hard’ gets attention. Salesmen want attention. True, you can take that too far.

  72. philjourdan says:

    @H.R. – Move to this state! :-) You are not required to affiliate with any party to vote in the primaries, although you can only vote in one each year (and you have to tell them which one, but then that is how I voted for Obama in 08, and Cruz in 16). I have never been associated with either party and have no intention of joining either party.

  73. philjourdan says:

    @EM – re: Sneaky Managers

    It is the nature of the beast. The higher you go, the more secretive you have to be, even to your underlings. But as you grow older and acquire more experience and wisdom, you learn the tells.

    The latest layoffs at the company I left 4 months ago were just such sneaky stuff. I was working an issue late one night with another engineer and I asked him about a late notice we had received about a meeting by the CIO. He knew nothing about it! I checked the invitee list and noticed a couple of us were not on the list, so I bounced them a copy. Later that night, the other engineer told me he had been told to NOT attend the meeting. 1+1=2. My experience told me then what it was about and who was affected.

    I was not able to attend the meeting due to a previous appointment. But my deductions were confirmed. It is not only about what you hear, but about what you do not hear.

  74. D. J. Hawkins says:

    Re: Sneaky Managers

    I was the facility manager for Emcore in Somerset NJ. We had a layoff, but it wasn’t a secret. Why? The CFO was walking around with the list on his clipboard from one meeting to another, and had the list facing out for anyone to see as he walked by.

  75. Jon K says:

    @ Phil,
    How could you advocate the torture of living in this craphole of a state? :) Seriously, I can’t wait to get out of this tax hell.

  76. philjourdan says:

    It use to be a good state. Top 5 every year. Until Warner, Kaine and McAwful.

  77. beththeserf says:

    That ongoing witch hunt. Appears Christopher Steele had an active relationship
    with the FBI as early as Feb 2016. Didn’t need that ‘front door’ introduction in
    July, 2016.
    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-fbi-records-show-dossier-author-deemed-not-suitable-for-use-as-source-show-several-fbi-payments-in-2016/

    h/t- comment @ Climate Audit

  78. Jon K says:

    @Phil,
    My bad. I thought you lived in Illinois. Not sure where I got that idea, but I’m blaming in on the insanity of raising 6 kids ;)

  79. philjourdan says:

    @Jon K – with the current clown car leadership we have, there is not much difference between the 2 states (just fewer in Virginia in Jail).

    And I earned every gray hair I have raising my 5! :-)

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