Free Idea For The Police & Military

Watching the news, there’s video of the Invading Immigrant Mob where a wall of Mexican Police are on one side of a barrier of bars, and the Mob is on the other side of the barrier tossing rocks, chunks of trees, and anything loose at the Police.

Now the Police can not shoot back. It isn’t (yet) lethal force. It is only physically damaging force. ( A couple of guys tossed what looked like a 15 foot long pipe, or maybe small tree trunk over the top of the barrier…) Now the Police have tear gas, but that depends on the winds and is non-discriminatory as to target. They have tasers, MAYBE, but those don’t work well throug a fence. What to do? Rubber bullets?

What you want is something to incapacitate individual persons, but not kill them.

So what about an analog of the “rubber bullet”. An anesthetic in a gelatin bullet that will go through a shirt and skin, but is unlikely to kill if shot at the legs or torso (not enough energy). So you shoot the folks and they have about 4 minutes until sleepy time. It might take a ‘shot capsule’ approach where each pellet is the size of a grain of sand (so can’t go deeply into tissues).

So the folks assaulting would see shots being fired, then see folks “going down”, so would be highly motivate to back off. Yet nobody would be seriously hurt. (Assuming the police can avoid aiming at heads, throats, crotches, etc.) Just torso or thigh level on down.

I’m pretty sure this can be done, and loads for revolver and shotgun can be made. Semi-auto might need hand cycling, but that isn’t hard to train.

I put this idea in the Public Domain for anyone to turn into products.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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20 Responses to Free Idea For The Police & Military

  1. Pouncer says:

    SALT paintball “marker” loaded with tear gas pellets, review by Law Enforcement Officer:

    excerpt —

    If you are, in fact, “anti-gun” or a “non-gun person” – for whatever reason – your options are indeed limited. The SALT Gun is likely your best option for home defense – and the SALT will cover your needs in more scenarios than owning only a firearm will. Why? Because the vast majority of bumps in the night are NOT from a machete-wielding horror-movie-murderer coming in to kill you. They are drunk neighbors trying to come into the wrong house. They are angry aggressors who want to fight. They are animals knocking over the trash can. They are kids trying to break into your car. They are (often unarmed) burglars hoping nobody is home and looking to take your TV, not your life. And… They are your own teenage kids or spouse coming home unexpectedly in the middle of the night.

    SALT is better suited for all of these situations than a firearm. None of these are situations that would normally require employing deadly force to resolve – even if they turn into situations where you become personally threatened. And in the small likelihood that there actually is an intruder intent on harming or killing you, SALT is capable of reversing them in their tracks. I certainly wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of the SALT. The military strength combination of tear gas and pepper spray in the SALT rounds will shut down a recipient’s vision and impair their breathing. You don’t even have to hit them with the round for it to be effective because it’s designed to deploy a cloud that hangs in the air. I don’t care who you are… When you can’t see, and you can’t breathe, you are going to think twice about continuing your current course of action. And if you happen to hit them with the round itself -ouch! I’ve seen the marks left behind. If you’ve ever been hit with a paintball going 300fps, then you know how bad that hurts,

  2. jim2 says:

    Make that paint ball paint glow in the dark :) The knock-out capsules would be fine until one of them drown in the Rio Grande, then the YSM would never shut up about it.

  3. H.R. says:

    How does one keep the tear gas and pepper spray at the intruder’s end of the hallway?

    Maybe each gun comes with a hat that has a little fan mounted on it… or something.

  4. Kneel says:

    “Now the Police can not shoot back.”

    Perhaps if they did, there would be less of these episodes to deal with?
    And I think they CAN shoot – why not? A raging mob can turn quickly…

  5. Larry Ledwick says:

    I suspect that this situation is an ideal opportunity to try out the Active Denial System.

    ADS test video clip

  6. poly says:

    Use real salt, coarse grains. It does not penetrate the skin far but stings like heck and is non-lethal.

  7. Richard Hill says:

    Jerry Pournelle suggested bombing the enemy with computer games and video recorders etc.

  8. Pouncer says:

    ” “Now the Police can not shoot back.” And I think they CAN shoot – why not? ”

    Historically, for more-or-less free societies with decent governments — a bad idea. Recall that the so-called “Boston Massacre” began on a snowy day when the kids of Boston thought it would be funny to chuck snowballs at the Red Coats posted outside the Customs (ICE?) office. Well, you can’t knock his hat off with fluffy snow. Put a rock in it. Well, we didn’t MEAN to hit his FACE … Well, the guard called for the sergeant and the sergeant turned out the rest of the squad and a big show was made of loading up and fixing bayonets and Bostons’ parents turned out in response with muskets of their own and — in the trial afterwards — testimony said SOMEBODY, no one knows exactly who, shouted FIRE. And the better disciplined, “regulated” as they said back then, Red Coats were the first and best to respond to what they thought was an order …

    Legitimacy and the Mandate of Heaven bestowed upon a government can be cast aside so very easily.

  9. David A says:

    A rock can legitimately be considered a deadly weapon.
    Not that I advocate mowing them down.
    Larry’s link looks intriguing.

  10. David A says:

    Although could a layer of tin foil defeat it?

  11. Ralph B says:

    Why not just break out speakers and blast the “Brown Note”?

  12. Tom says:

    Last version of Active Denial reduced the power requirement and size through application of solid-state electronics. Objective as of 2016 was to operate from a Humvee at reduced power draw, providing a minimum 100 meter range.

    There is the chemical deterrent “Skunk” crowd control spray, pioneered by Israeli defense contractors. Requires a special “soap” to neutralize the nauseating odor, which normally has to wear off over a long number of days.

    There is a laser device, the Non-Lethal Laser-Induced Plasma Effect (NL-LIPE), which can generate a small plasma, pump energy into the plasma to produce intense sound effects,voices, flash/bang blast effects at long range.

  13. cdquarles says:

    Well, one of the uses of fentanyl and similar opiods is use in tranquilizer darts. Getting the dosage right is the issue.
    @Tom, well yes.

  14. E.M.Smith says:


    I note in passing that in Chicago you can not possess pepper spray without a permit ($$, time, class, etc. etc.). The notion of “disarmed citizens” extends to non-lethal defense as well.

    @Ralph B:

    According to the wiki it has not been shown to actually exist for air transmission…

    @David A:

    Not tin foil but anything thicker than the designed penetration would. So for example a leather jacket likely would work as “armor”. I suppose a pellet that burst on impact making a cloud of knock out dust / gas would work for that case… As noted for tranq darts, the dose control would be an issue.


    Well, it does look like there are a lot of other stuff in existence… so now I wonder why they are not using any of it. Just doing the Roman Turtle thing.

  15. ossqss says:

    Mobile water cannon comes to mind.

  16. David A says:

    I was thinking of a shield for the ADS weapon…

  17. Richard Hill says:

    Operators of shopping malls drive away kids with classical music. Try Vivaldi’s Four Seasons at 110 db.

  18. Larry Ledwick says:

    Meanwhile Obama has trouble filling high school gymnasium sized venues – I think this sort of crowd response is sending a shudder down the backs of the Democratic leadership. They know their goose is cooked but are just going through the motions to keep their most fanatical base engaged.

  19. Larry Ledwick says:

    Ooops wrong thread – you know where it goes.

  20. Larry Ledwick says:

    On the non-lethal controls topic this appears to work on paved surfaces, not so effective I suspect on dirt border roads.

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