W.O.O.D. 14 February 2019

Welcome to St. Valentines Day!

Needless to say I’m not focusing on the Blog today as the Spouse has other ideas. I’ll check in when I can.


This is another of the W.O.O.D. series of semi-regular
Weekly Occasional Open Discussions.
(i.e. if I forget and skip one, no big)

Immediate prior one here:

and remains open for threads running there (at least until the ‘several month’ auto-close of comments on stale threads).

Canonical list of old ones here:

So use “Tips” for “Oooh, look at the interesting ponder thing!”
and “W.O.O.D” for “Did you see what just happened?! What did you think about it?”

What’s Going On?

Venezuela has a US Aid food convoy on the border. We’ll see if the people are hungry enough to take down the barriers and let it in. Maduro is calling it a plot…

BREXIT is supposedly about 40ish days away. T. May continues to run out the clock. Nothing is changing in The Deal. I expect a last minuted minor change and then an ultimatum of “Take this, or it’s WTO Rules and the end of life…” and then there will an extension of 6 months to decide again. Hopefully The British People will inform their government to just get it over with now.

The Police in france are now beating up the Yellow Vest protestors. Something like 20 dead and a whole bunch of folks have lost an eye to exploding gas canisters. One wonders how long before The Government gets changed.

In Spain there’s a major upheaval going on. Not just the Catalonians wanting to leave, but the Spanish budget is busting EU rules. It looks like with the insane levels of unemployment (especially in the young generations) Spain is about to bubble with trouble.

It is shaping up to be a Germany + French Elite vs Europe + French Deplorables… On one side: Germany, French Government. On the other side: Spain, Italy, French People, Austria, Poland, Hungary, …. with Britain working to get the damn door open and run screaming from the room before the fighting breaks out… Don’t know where all the little Hanger On countries stand in all this. Holland, Denmark, Andora, Slovakia, etc. etc.

Then we have the spectacle of every Democrat with a pulse (so leaves out Pelosi & Shumer – the walking dead zombies from the past…) shouting they are running for President. Then in unison endorsing the Green Nutty Deal. Maybe given how horrible it is and how much it has blown up in their collective faces they will actually assign a staffer to read it next time… Slowly it is dawning on some of them that “No Oil, No Gas, No Coal” also means no airplanes, no limos, no Air conditioning, no ships, no winter heat, no trucks of food coming to the grocery store, no Snow Ploughs and no room heater in the blizzard.

In related news, Governor Newsance of California has canceled future sections of The Train To Nowhere; but is letting the part underway be finished. After all, can’t have those folks out of work… Even if you assure the finished thing will be absolutely worthless as it runs from Bakersfield to south of Sacramento. Maybe they can put tractor hauling cars on it for the farmers… He’s also partially killed the “River In A Tube”. Jerry Moonbeam wanted 2 giant bores to take the Sacramento River from the North side of the S.F. Delta to the South side so they could ship it to L.A. Never mind that they are requiring all that water to be dumped in the ocean to “Save the Delta Smelt”… so it isn’t available. So Gov. Newsom has killed one of the $10 Billion bore holes. Ought to have been both, but he seems to be big on 1/2 measures.

Why did he kill it? Well, for the train, the $10 Billion price tag had ballooned to $100 Billion. Even with the outrageous tax rates in California they didn’t have that kind of money. Something about bankrupting the State during his first term in office was enough to cause action.

Meanwhile, it’s been cold, nearly frigid here in the San Francisco Bay Area. We’ve had snow in the hills all around the Bay. Now we have an “Atmospheric River” taking tons of water and snow overhead. Tonight I got an “Emergency Alert” for flooding in San Jose on my cell phone. So I turned off emergency alerts ;-) But watch the news reports for the Sierra Nevada snowfall. It ought to be impressive.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
This entry was posted in W.O.O.D. and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

149 Responses to W.O.O.D. 14 February 2019

  1. Bill in Oz says:

    E M Someone has posted a comment on the Jo Nova blog which attempts to make some criticisms of your recent work. I will be responding there myself. But I feel you should not be kept ignorant of this person’s remarks. Here is a copy :
    There is a new comment on the post “Australia’s new hottest day just “discovered”, not Albany or Oodnadatta, but Carnarvon (51 degrees in 1953!)”.

    Author: barry
    “the effect of deleting weather stations at higher altitudes”

    Means nothing, because data from all stations are anomalised. The data from the station on top of a mountain has the same zero baseline as the data from the station at sea level.

    The only way “deleting” (which is not what happened at all*) high altitude data could affect the global trends is if the high altitude trends all happened to be warmer or cooler than the global average.

    That’s one of the useful things about anomalies. Whether the station data come from Antarctica or Malaysia, from a hot desert or cold mountain, anomalising the data on the same baseline means you don’t have to weight the averagesdepending on altitude and latitude. That’s already done by the anomalization process.

    (* Chiefio has walked back the old claim that anyone deliberately deleted data. Because none was deleted. The chart showing the old “station drop-off” looks that way because the historical data was retrospectively added in the mid-90s, from old charts and books. Most of it was not part of the semi-automated stream GHCN gets monthly from less than 3000 weather stations. That’s why there’s a drop-off – not because recent data was deleted, but because old data was added. it’s amazing how long this furfy has lived. Here’s the prigina,l methods paper, which lays out what happened. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/docs/peterson-vose-1997.pdf You will see a very familiar chart in there, and now you know where Chiefio got the original from. Pity he didn’t read the paper carefully!)

    See all comments on this post here:

  2. Graeme No.3 says:

    So now I know why I felt like turning on the heating this morning. Outside temperature 5.3℃  in the middle of the (usually) hottest part of Summer. Sorry, wrong perception. I’m feeling the anomally. Temperature was (approximately by non-standard methods) 5.3 ℃, it was really warmer than ever.
    Nothing short of pictures of ducks STANDING on top of the local pond will convince True Believers that the Sun has anything to do with the climate.

  3. H.R. says:

    Someone in comments over on The Conservative Treehouse mentioned that Sundance had looked into the disappearing comments and the name/email needing to be filled in each time.

    It seems WordPress is testing some changes and those are some of the side effects of the changes. My comment on “Free Brussel’s Sprouts” disappeared and showed up the following day. E.M. didn’t mention if he fished it out of spam, moderation, or if he had just noticed it because all of the sudden it was where it should have been.

    Anyhow, the herky jerkiness of WordPress at the moment is supposedly only temporary while the testing is being done and it’s expected that form data will go back to remaining in place.

    I have to fill in name and email for this comment, so either the test is ongoing or the test is over and it’s a permanent change. We’ll see.

    Anyhow, it wasn’t some check box that E.M. inadvertently ticked.

  4. Bill in Oz says:

    High Summer in the Adelaide Hills of South Australia ! This morning it was 6 degrees C on my old fashioned mercury Min/Max thermometer…It climbed up to 25 maximum and has now dropped back to 13 degrees so far tonight…We did manage to get the clothes dry on the Hills clothes Hoist
    from 12.00 till 4.30 though. ;-)

    The Bureau of Misinformation promises that Summer will come back on Sunday with a forecast 36 degrees C. We’ll see.
    Meanwhile BOM preaches sermons about the necessity of stopping climate change…

    I wonder if they ever wonder what happened to their ‘Global Warming ‘ clothes in our cool Aussie Summer.

  5. beng135 says:

    Thought this might be interesting — using the electrical grid to eavesdrop into cable channels. Developed in Japan:

  6. John F. Hultquist says:

    Some other world hot-spots:
    Kashmir Militant attack, 34 Indians dead;
    Iran’s Sunni Muslims (via Pakistan border) killing 27 Shia Revolutionary Guards;
    Kurdish-led fighters close on last two ISIS bits of the 2014 declared Caliphate;
    National Guard lends troops, trucks for East King County** snow response
    (**20 miles east of Seattle), but hay, I-90 over Snoqualmie Pass is sort of open

  7. Power Grab says:

    I’m trying to create an account on Gab. It says I need an invitation code. How does one get that?

  8. E.M.Smith says:

    @Bil In Oz:

    Yeah, that’s the “narrative” about missing thermometers. Thatvusing “the wrong word” for he same thing makes you an idiot and that The Great Anomaly fixes all.

    First off the term “deleted”: It can have an active agent sense, of just a passive “after this point in time cease being in the data”. They insist only the first exists. I see no reason to limit my vocabulary to their choices. Yes, the thermometers are dropped in the data after the baseline. That is a fact. Quibbling that they were not there before to be actively delete instead of just passively left out changes nothing. A burglar actively steals, an embezzler just leaves it out of the bank deposite.

    Then the notion that with a wave of the anomaly wand all becomes 100% accurate and pure. Even when mixed with The Reference Station Method: That is unproven. There is one Hansen paper saying RSM can work up to 1200 km. What are the error bands? ….. crickets… It isn’t perfect, it is only tested over a short period (not including climate shift times like The Great Pacific Climate Shift, so what hapoens to the correlation when the jet stream goes from meridional to zonal, eh?), an iven the blatant bias of Hansen, suspect from the start.

    Then, when applied, again no error bands. Is the error range greater or less than 1C?

    Finally, the notion that “It is all anomalies so it does’ t matter”. That is a lie. The monthly average Min Max Ave are calculated from real temperatures. These are handed to GIStemp that uses the AVG AS temperatures until the Grid Box values are calculated. You don’t see anomalies in GHCN, you see average temperatures.

    That the anomaly process was used to fabricate infilled or adjusted amounts is likely true, but that just returns to the question of error bars and perfection, and the unanswered question of what happens in different regimes of solar output and jet stream.

    There assertion amounts to: “It is still 76 F in San Diego so not snowing more than usual in Tahoe. ” Patently false. OR “Atlanta is still warm so that Polar Express is not making record lows in Chicago”.

    We KNOW the solar change made the atmosphere shorter. Mountain tops got colder. A Lot colder. They are now effectively at higher pressure altitudes. This is ignored by the “Anomaly perfection” mob. I think it is key factor.

    But no, there is no peer reviewed paper addressing this. Why? Because I don’t have $millions of govrnment and Soros funding and The Climate Mob runs the Climate Degree Mills and the Peer Review process.

  9. E.M.Smith says:

    Huh Must be new… I didn’t need one a while back… so no idea…

  10. rhoda klapp says:

    You can’t fix a mountain station’s tendency to cold excursions (but not hot) by applying some sort of anomalising process. The mean will still be more subject to cold excursions than the airport at sea level which you left in the ensemble. Which will tend to warm excursions but never cold ones. But then I never could see how anomalising the whole set makes any difference..

  11. E.M.Smith says:

    @Rhoda Klapp:

    Not only “makes any difference” but works with ZERO ERROR BAND. That’s a very critical bit. We’re talking 1/2 C of “Oh My GOD W’e’re ALL GONNA DIE!!!!” and no error band shown. Yet the cold excursions during times, like now, of low solar UV and loopy jet stream are measured in 10’s C cold plunges (that can last days to weeks to do change the “monthly average”).

    That, in a nutshell, is my gripe.

  12. David A says:

    E.M. says “That the anomaly process was used to fabricate infilled or adjusted amounts is likely true, but that just returns to the question of error bars and perfection, and the unanswered question of what happens in different regimes of solar output and jet stream.”

    It appears that in order to know if dropping stations of high altitude has an affect one would need to know the global lapse rate, both as applied to individual stations and a global average.

    Indeed to know the total theoretical atmospheric energy content one would need to chart the entire atmosphere in 3D and know the global and regional humidity. (Of course we are very very very far from this)

    Certainly jet stream patterns and solar changes have an affect on this.

  13. David A says:

    Yet it may still be useful if we knew the trend of the dropped stations.

  14. Larry Ledwick says:

    Power Grab says:
    14 February 2019 at 3:58 pm
    I’m trying to create an account on Gab. It says I need an invitation code. How does one get that?

    They did that when they first rolled it out, you go through the sign up process, then a short time later they send you an email at the provided address with a custom link to follow.

    I think it serves two purposes, it slows down spammer accounts and lets the vet that you are signing up for 1256th time from the same email account, and it also helps them handle the account set up load spikes.

    In my case as one of the very early signups it took a couple days to get the invite back.

  15. E.M.Smith says:

    @David A:

    Not just the lapse rate, but also the effect of changed Jet Stream patterns meaning what happens when it goes loopy vs not: Do the ‘dips’ preferentially align with the backside of the Rockies? (There is evidence for “Mobile Polar Highs” (that are high pressure but very cold) to slide down the back side of the Rockies… ) Does the % of “dips” over land vs % over (unmonitored) oceans vary over time to an average of “the same” or do they tend to bias due to more over land or water more of the time?

    There is a huge opportunity for interaction between Solar driven jet stream changes, Solar driven atmospheric hight changes, and “high cold places” on land vs The Ocean. This is all ignored in regular “Climate Science” and the Magic Anomaly makes everything Perfect!…

    FWIW, I’m working on it. Just not full time.

    Today I went to get a copy of the USHCN 2.5.5 which is the New One. So far I have been unable to find it… CDIAC no longer reports as they went out of that business about 2014 or so. At NCEI (NCDC) their FTP site has 2.5 from 2015 but not 2.5.5 that I can find. Yet even 2.5 when I click the download link gives me an active download indication, but zero data / minute…

    The README is there and I can get it:

    (Last Updated: 06 August, 2014)


    1.1 OVERVIEW

    In October 2012, a revision to the USHCN version 2 datasets was
    released as version 2.5. The version 2.5 processing steps are essentially
    the same as in version 2.0, but the increase in version number change reflects
    modifications that have been made to the underlying database as well as

    As is the status.txt file:

    June 9, 2015

    USCHN Version 2.5.5 has been released. See Technical Report GHCNM-No15-01
    in ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/ghcn/v3/techreports/ for details
    on the changes associated with this version update. USHCN Version 2.5.5
    homogenized data are associated with the naming convention “52j” to
    reflect the version of the Pairwise Homogenization Algorithm used.

    May 28, 2015

    USHCN Version 2.5.0 will be replaced by Version 2.5.5 in early June, 2015.
    Information on this change is available in Technical Report GHCNM-No15-01.
    Accordingly, the PHA algorithm change will results in a version change
    from 52i to 52j.

    I can likely do the comparison I have in mind using those data, but was hoping to get 2.5.5 data up to the present cold plunge.

    So don’t know if they changed to some new site or path, or what. But I’m having No Joy on current data downloads.

    Searching for USHCN 2.5.5 did pop this paper / blog post:

    That has some nice graphs in it. I’m going to explore it a bit and see if I can find out what tools were used (i.e. what I need to get ;-)

  16. Power Grab says:

    @ Larry Ledwick: Thanks! I will be on the lookout for the email. It hasn’t arrived yet.

  17. Larry Ledwick says:

    This is interesting (maybe an I told you so about artificial sweetners)


  18. E.M.Smith says:

    Strange… Same thing on GHCNv4. I can get the small files but the download of the data just stalls.

    Can’t be “server down” as I’m getting the small files. Not going to be a permission on the directory issue for the same reason. I suppose the actual data might be out on a tape robot that is down, so it can’t load the file to disk to then serve it. (We had that arrangement at Apple, a TB scale backing store to the file system). Or maybe they are limiting big file download hours to “off hours”? Whatever…

    Guess I’ll “Go Fish” in my data archive for the last USHCN I downloaded…. IIRC it was after 2015 so might even be USHCN 2.5.5. from an earlier time.

  19. E.M.Smith says:


    I think you said something about them but it wasn’t that particular paper. That one is scary…

    I’ll need to tell my Florida Friend as he is a artificial sweetened soda guy (and had a heart attack…)

    FWIW, per Gab.ai, now I’m wondering if I just didn’t remember the email process, or if it is something they roll out at times of high demand…. I’d check my email if I cared enough ;-)

  20. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well this should be interesting we finally have a real Attorney General.

    Sarah Sanders
    ‏Verified account
    Following @PressSec

    A major victory for justice and the rule of law in America: the Senate just confirmed President @realDonaldTrump’s outstanding nominee William Barr as Attorney General

    11:08 AM – 14 Feb 2019

  21. E.M.Smith says:

    What I posted at Jo’s:

    Please stop slandering me. In that posting, there is one reference to “deleting” a station, and that is about one that IS in the record for a long period stating that it was NOT deleted. Per Anatarctica:

    Well, at least they kept one high altitude station. Probably a big name one so deleting it would cause notice…

    “Means nothing, because data from all stations are anomalised” – No, they are not. They are presented AS temperatures in GHCN and USHCN. They are used AS temperatures through most of GIStemp (up to the point where 16,000 “grid / box” temperatures are fabricated from 2500 and a bit current temperatures THEN there is an anomaly step used. Now for any given fabricated data point in any given BOM temperature series, it may well have had an “anomaly process” used to do so. Where are the error bars? crickets…. The assertion that the Anomaly Process produces error free fabricated “data food product” is just an assertion. There is no evidence or proof for it. Even if only “asserted by omission of the error bars”, it is still waved around as perfection. It is not.

    “The data from the station on top of a mountain has the same zero baseline as the data from the station at sea level.” This is just bafflegab. The stations that are only in the baseline have exactly and only the induced data making up the baseline. This, then, gets averaged in with all the other stations in the baseline interval to create the total baseline. There is no “zero baseline”, there is only “the baseline data”.

    “The only way “deleting” (which is not what happened at all*) high altitude data could affect the global trends is if the high altitude trends all happened to be warmer or cooler than the global average.”

    Nope, not at all. But first, a moment on “deleting”: A thief takes your stuff after you have it. An embezzler just never bothers to make the bank deposit. I’ve not said the data was IN GHCN and then stolen from it. The data ARE in the full station records at the local BOMs around the planet, they just were not “deposited” into GHCN. So no, the folks making GHCN are not taking out the data, deleting it from the existing GHCN. They ARE deleting it from the input supply (or just failing to include it) so more like embezzling. Hope that makes you feel better…

    Now, what might make your assertion of perfection fail? Well, we happen to KNOW that when the Sun went into a funk the atmospheric hight shortened. (NASA data, satellites needing less boost, etc.) This, effectively, moves “high cold stations” to a higher density altitude. That tends to be colder. So, any “anomaly” calculated in one regime (solar spots high) will be WRONG and have ERROR in another solar regime (low to no sunspots). This matters. Then there is the issue of the Loopy Jet Stream. What happens when your anomaly is calculated during a time of zonal jet stream and then it goes meridional (loopy) now? Your anomaly will be WRONG and have ERROR.

    It is a bald assertion that the Magic Anomaly Fixes All. It does not.

    There is one paper (1987? Maybe earlier… From Hansen) that shows the Reference Station Method can give OK replacement values up to 1200 km away. This does NOT justify serial application. GISTemp does it up to 3 times in a row, so a station up to 3600 km away can influence the fabrication of a missing temperature value. (I’ve read, ported, and run GISTemp, BTW…) Now, what are the ERROR BARS? Are they 1/10 C or 1/2 C or 1 C or what? No error bars means your fabricated not-a-temperature value is useless and misleading.

    “That’s one of the useful things about anomalies. Whether the station data come from Antarctica or Malaysia, from a hot desert or cold mountain, anomalising the data on the same baseline means you don’t have to weight the averagesdepending on altitude and latitude. That’s already done by the anomalization process.”

    ONLY if you compare that thermometer to ITSELF at a different point in time in the anomaly series. IF you compare it to some other thermometer in a different period of time, for which baseline has no data, you are not comparing things from the same climate / weather regimen and are subject to the kinds of ERROR noted above. Comparing a Melbourne “anomaly” NOW to a Jakarta anomaly from a different period of time will not be helpful. The data must have overlap or changes of things like PDO, AMO, the 60 year weather cycle, Polar See-Saw, and Solar Grand Minimum will all disrupt your Reference Station Method anomaly relationship from one of those intervals to the other. Hansen’s paper rests on too short a time interval to cover those effects.

    (* Chiefio has walked back the old claim that anyone deliberately deleted data. Because none was deleted.

    No, I have not “walked back” anything. The data were deleted. Just not from the GHCN, from the available input pool of data when turning it into the input to GHCN. This is a deliberate act (why else would about 4000 thermometers of data all cut off at the end of the Hadley Baseline period? It is not accidental.) Now I do NOT assert that is an evil thing. It could just be stupidity from believing the BS that “The Anomaly Will Fix EVERYTHING, and PERFECTLY!!”. If you prefer, you can substitute that “the data just failed to be deposited”…

    The chart showing the old “station drop-off” looks that way because the historical data was retrospectively added in the mid-90s, from old charts and books. Most of it was not part of the semi-automated stream GHCN gets monthly from less than 3000 weather stations. That’s why there’s a drop-off – not because recent data was deleted, but because old data was added. it’s amazing how long this furfy has lived. Here’s the prigina,l methods paper, which lays out what happened. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/docs/peterson-vose-1997.pdf You will see a very familiar chart in there, and now you know where Chiefio got the original from. Pity he didn’t read the paper carefully!)

    Not a single BOM used then, eh? BTW, Turkey BOM complained that GHCN used their warming stations and left out the ones that are cooling… “old charts and books”: Are those accurate to 1/10 C? What are the error bars? Then why did this just end in 1990? Not interested after that? IF the anomaly makes it all irrelevant anyway, why include it at all? Just take it out.

    “and now you know where Chiefio got the original from”: NOT AT ALL. I took the GHCN data and plotted it. Nothing more. I got no “original” from anyone else. Your “pity” is also just a propaganda slam.

    Your assertions amounts to: “It is still 76 F in San Diego so not snowing more than usual in Tahoe. ” Patently false. OR “Atlanta is still warm so that Polar Express is not making record lows in Chicago”. We are in a different regime, so the anomaly relationship from 1980 is no longer accurate.

    We KNOW the solar change made the atmosphere shorter. Mountain tops got colder. A Lot colder. They are now effectively at higher pressure altitudes. This is ignored by the “Anomaly perfection” mob. I think it is key factor.

  22. David A says:

    Thank you for all your work Sir.
    Sometimes when you respond like this on such posts that somewhat arrogantly think ” they have you” I am both amused and grateful for the clarity of your thought process. I also wish I could this particular gentlemen’s face as he read your rebuttal!

  23. Jon K says:

    @ Larry
    I hope you’re right about Barr. I thought Sessions was going to do great things, but I was so wrong. I’m still skeptical about Barr, but it can’t be worse :)

  24. Another Ian says:

    A look at “all the news that is fit to print”

    “Extreme Fraud In The National Climate Assessment”


  25. Another Ian says:

    E. M.

    Small Dead Animals has had that re-enter your data “feature” for a while – before it showed up on other sites like yours and WUWT

  26. Another Ian says:

    Jo Nova uses a different version of WordPress and that feature hasn’t showed there as yet

  27. Another Ian says:

    Part of the problem

    “Like I said the other day.
    Spent the weekend with old friends, a Barrister and a Journalist

    The Journo refused point blank to listen to anything that might undermine his green belief.

    The Barrister had never heard of gilette jaunes.

    I kid you not.”


  28. Another Ian says:

    ” “Trump’s campaign and presidency has created a type of PTSD — what I call Post-Trump Sex Disorder. People just don’t want to have sex.” ”


  29. Bill in Oz says:

    Well done EM ! I find it interesting that the comment from Barry was posted a couple of days after it was the ‘active’ post on Jo Nova. And not while the discussion was current. So was Barry’s intent to discredit you for posterity while no one was looking ?

  30. R. de Haan says:

    E.M., I ‘ve found this web site about restoring privacy on the grid. They have tested VPN’s, made an inventory of google alternatives etc, etc.:

  31. R. de Haan says:

    In Germany and many other EU countries the political establishment is scared to death by the “Yellow Vest” protests in France. In Germany the fuels costs have been reduced and the Green Zone restrictions for Diesel cars discussed after “unexpected” protests of diesel car owners who doubt the quality of the emission data. A judge even cancelled a green zone innitiative on the grounds that older diesel cars could be fitted with a particle filter that would bring emissions to an acceptable level. In the Netherlands a Government Report about planned climate policies was totally burned down by the Central Burea of Statistics that even went so far to call the Minister of Environment “a liar” and critisized the underlying “scientific reports” as “bogus” with the remark that the authors were no scientists but activists. Amazing. The green wall is showing cracks.

  32. Larry Ledwick says:

    That restore privacy link is interesting, their top rated vpn however
    [https://www.expressvpn.com/ ]
    is coming back as ERR_CONNECTION_RESET wonder if that is due to our work configuration here at the office. Can anyone else connect from non-business locations?

  33. Terry Jay says:

    Tried it with and without a VPN running, no issues, went thru fine. Have had the too many redirects on a few sites while using VPN.

  34. Larry Ledwick says:

    Okay just talked to one of the SysAdmins he thinks the issue is our company firewall blocking the connection to ensure folks only use the company approved vpn system.

  35. jim2 says:

    Lubos Motl makes a pitch for us to move to Eastern Europe. From that article, also, …

    Norway is a wonderful and rich country. The term “Quisling” has also become a generic synonym for a Nazi collaborationist, after a Norwegian Second World War puppet Vidkun Quisling. The most notorious Nazi-style body that is semi-integrated into the government structures and that survived is Barnevernet, modeled after the Nazi Lebensborn, an entity removing children from an incredible number of biological parents.

    Many mothers from post-communist countries who have lived in Norway have become victims of this excessive activism by Barnevernet – when they own kids were taken from them. This has included mothers from Poland, Baltic countries, Czech mother Eva Michaláková, and others.

    Ms Silje Garmo goes beyond the previous sentences because she is, you know, an all-Norwegian lady. Her first kid was taken from her.


  36. Larry Ledwick says:

    Reading through the various pages there on


    He has lots of interesting info, especially if you dig down into the comments.

    Got to thinking about how it would be really useful to have an outline/checklist for locking down a system and your online behavior. It is a far deeper subject than just a pihole or vpn etc.

    For starters you have,
    Purchase id tracking
    Privacy associations due to your spending to purchase services.
    As noted here by EM, one way around that is to buy cash filled credit cards at places like Walmart.
    One of the commentators mentioned that sites that use Credit card purchase sometimes have an “other options” choice which may include PayPal (which I am not a fan of),, but they may also allow the use of gift cards for that function. Instead of a wall mart card, get a prepaid gift card to serve the same function.

    Email tracking
    Then you have your email info which is often also used as the user id reference for account setups etc. Never use an email address which includes your real name or part of it (guilty here) likewise your initials or other easily guessed association.
    Protonmail is one free email provider that provides a high security free email account which you can use as a disposable email and stay out of the clutches of the likes of gmail.

    Physical device finger printing and tracking
    Make model of device, type of cpu, how much memory is installed, MAC address, bios version, Operating System version, installed software signature, default browser and search engine and other similar Key settings such as a system’s screen resolution,installed fonts, your time zone
    Installed hardware (video cards, sound cards, drivers, disk drives and their sizes)

    Network signature tracking
    ISP provider, IP if visible, default DNS servers, and Gateway device, router make model, update version.

    Browser tracking
    Browser used, update version, settings such as “do not track”, add-ons installed, ad blocking settings etc. cookies, history file

    Site that reports back how unique your browser signature is:

    content tracking
    images and hot pixels, cookies and tracking scripts, HTTP Referrer for links,

    Super cookies
    super cookie is evercookie. Super cookie solutions like evercookie store cookie data in multiple places – for example, in Flash cookies, Silverlight storage, your browsing history, and HTML5 local storage. One particularly clever tracking method is assigning a unique color value to a few pixels every time a new user visits a website. The different colors are stored in each user’s browser cache and can be loaded back – the color value of the pixels is a unique identifier that identifies the user.

    (does anyone know of good tools to clean super cookies?

    One particularly clever tracking method is assigning a unique color value to a few pixels every time a new user visits a website. The different colors are stored in each user’s browser cache and can be loaded back – the color value of the pixels is a unique identifier that identifies the user.


    Bottom line we have reached critical mass where it is very nearly impossible to avoid tracking and identification on the web unless you use extreme measures. Techniques like colored pixel codes have been used for years on computer printers, color printers print a pattern of small yellow dots on the margin of pages which if viewed under a monochrome blue light stand out (appear black but are almost impossible to see in natural light) and provide a visible physical proof of which printer that page was printed on. Very difficult to defeat without special efforts like removing the color ink cartridge (or letting it run down to empty), but this cannot be done on displayed images cached in the browser, and there is an infinite possible number of ways the displayed page could be coded using similar subtle techniques like font selections used date the page was retrieved etc.

    Resistance is futile you You will be assimilated

    That is just a superficial list, I have missed many more methods than I have listed.

  37. Larry Ledwick says:

    Food for thought:
    Is the back channel team of President Trump and his former business intelligence operation being used to take down the rich and powerful on the Left, one by one, domino by domino?


  38. Larry Ledwick says:

    Sarah Sanders
    ‏Verified account
    8 hours ago
    Statement on Government Funding Bill:

  39. E.M.Smith says:


    That tracking article explains why I run so many browsers on so many systems that periodically get new installs… Heck, I can’t keep them all straight and I know what they are….

    The Chromebox, for example, has been off for about 6 months. Not much to get from it. I’ll likely start using it again in a few weeks. Then in a few months put Linux on it… it is near the unsupported OS level when I swap out the OS for linux and extend lifetime a few more yeaes (decade…) and that brings a new personality with it.

    I’m about ready to swap my Daily Driver again… XU4 for RockPro64 as the OS gets tuned up. My Pi. M3 needs a turn in the rotation again. The Mac is dead now PSU quit… so using the tablet on the road. In a few months, to become some other laptop – chromebook or Pine laptop. Then the tablet will go dark again for weeks to months…

    My DNS is always a 192.168.1.xxx number at home so rather useless for tracking, while web is via Squid Proxy, so masking a lot of things like Mac address (need to finish my portable version of that too…) so tracking via DNS mostly fails (and my DNS servers change from time to time and vary on different machines, network connects)

    I use 4 different browsers on the tablet… and I had 3 or 4 on the Mac. As many as possible on each linux system.

    In short, EVERYTHING is in motion changing and what is “me” is spread over a dozen disjoint platforms…

    The nice thing is that I can do all that for less than the cost of one new Windoze box. A mix of old “free” hardware with new cheap SBC systems. Only expensive thing in the mix is the Tablet, and it was bought about 2010? When working at Disney… $400 IIRC. It is nearing EOL as more aps say they won’t run on it… so “soon” it will get scrubbed as a new Linux goes on. Then another old “me” ends as another new one enters the mix…

    Which reminds me… a couple of weeks back I got 3 new uSD cards to make new systems on… I think it is time for a new install browser and posting system… Using different chips, it costs about $10 per system and changing images is a 2 minute reboot… And one of them to become a new media station for Youtubes and such…

    FWIW I keep my links (bookmarks) as cut paste into a document file… makes moving between browsers and boxes easier…

    Yes it is some work, but also fun play…

    So far I see little evidence of tracking other than in the public email (that I rarely read anyway… it can be weeks between servicing it times). So I think it is working OK.

    The fundamental assumption of the trackers is that you have maybe 2 systems. Desktop that never changes location and mobile that does, but shares the fixed site. So break that and use it against them… For example, I sometimes use VPN on the tablet. I’ll soon add a different one at home. At that point, what is constant across systems to flag me-ness? Nothing.

    But as I’m down to just 2 mobile systems (tablet, burner phone) I need to address that next.

    Oh and I’m on 3 or 4 major OS types. MacOS is leaving the mix, Android, ChromOS, several Linux (Devuan, Armbian, Raspbian, Debian, the occasional Ubuntu &Redhat leaving the mix on systemD, and a few others.) Windose now only rarely legacy stuff…

    So good luck to anyone trying to unscramble that mess and finger it to me…

    Just think of it as spread spectrum identity ;-)

  40. p.g.sharrow says:

    @Larry; read your “food for thought”
    The Swamp Rats are so mesmerized by the Donald Trump Show that they are not noticing their back field is thinning as those that power and protect them disappear. Now we will begin to hear more and more from those that have been caught as they spill to save themselves.
    I also hear that the Trumps are depending more and more on their private army and the Marines and less on the SS for their protection. .
    So far the Trump organization has made few real errors as they navigate the swamp of RINOs and Communists that infest it. Trump said he has spent a lifetime preparing for this job. I believe that may be true as I watch this slowly unfold…pg.

  41. barry says:

    Hi Chiefio, Bill in Oz recommended I continue the conversation at Jo Nova’s here. So I’ll do so, with a belated Valentines wish to all those who are in a relationship.

    I said that you had ‘walked back’ comments about GHCN, where you’d previously said they’d deleted GHCN data. Here are some of your comments, verbatim, from you early in your ‘March of the Thermometers’ postings.

    “IMHO, only NOAA / NCDC can answer why they choose to delete the cold stations from the modern part of the GHCN data set” – https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/ghcn-gistemp-interactions-the-bolivia-effect/

    Isn’t your statement of deliberate deletions with respect to the GHCN database not crystal clear, here?

    “…these are dropped by NOAA / NCDC and NOT by NASA GISS. GIStemp does toss out station records shorter than 20 years, but that happens to the combined GHCN / USHCN data sets and long AFTER NOAA / NCDC have “done the deed” of deletion of recent cold records in GHCN.” – https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/ushcn-vs-ushcn-version-2-more-induced-warmth/

    “Don’t know what to make of this list yet, other than it directly ‘gives the lie’ to the assertion that thermometer ‘drops’ were / are entirely an artifact of GHCN being a creation at a historical moment in time” – https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/2010-thermometer-langoliers-hit-list/

    You state that the deletions were a deliberate choice in the first quote (and elsewhere back then), and you wave away the notion of retrospective addition being the cause in the latter comment, but you allow some possibility that there might be something to the idea of retrospective additions.

    I’ve never seen you in an article on your site directly address the retrospective addition of huge amounts of data being responsible for the major part of the hump in station count – acknowledging that this is in fact the case. Have you done so?

    Eventually you said this:

    “While the “spin” put on my position has tended to say there is active intentional removal of thermometers for malicious effect; I have gone out of my way to point out that I can not know any person’s intent, only the result […] I’m more interested in the FACT of the thermometer deletions (or drops) from the record and what that says about data bias; than about whether there has been a sin of omission or of commission. It’s a sin in either case. Was it murder or involuntary thermometer slaughter?”


    These are all your own words. I think my characterization is fair. By all means clarify anything I’ve misunderstood.

    To be clear, these are your comments on NOAA deleting GHCN, not downstream products. I’m looking for clarity on this. I note that specific to GHCN on JONova’s blog you replied to me:

    “So no, the folks making GHCN are not taking out the data, deleting it from the existing GHCN. They ARE deleting it from the input supply (or just failing to include it)”

    Specifically I’m contesting that NOAA have not deleted stations from the GHCN monthly data base. The “drop out” is entirely, or very nearly entirely, a consequence of retrospectively adding historic data, not from deliberately deleting any stations from GHCN monthly.

    I’d like to know if you agree/disagree with this specifically. Happy to discuss other stuff you mentioned after this is clarified. I ask, because many skeptics still think that several thousand stations’ data from the 1990s was deliberately deleted from GHCN monthly by NOAA, dues to your posting about it 2009. It would be good to have an unequivocal response to specifically that from you.


  42. Rienk says:

    Hello Chiefio,


    I’ve just downloaded it no problem via filezilla (ftp program). It looks like 2.5 is in fact 2.5.5, at least is says so in the title of the unpacked directory which is called “ushcn.v2.5.5.20190214.” Plus that some of the big files have 52j in the filename, meaning the new algorithm. If you keep having trouble I could probably put them on a personal ftp server. Haven’t played with that for some time though….

  43. E.M.Smith says:


    Thanks for the confirm. I think folks are playing QOS games. That lack of Net Nutrality thing.

    I just restarted my queued downloads and they finished in record time. So started downloads on Min Max … and they hung too.., stopped and restarted, they got a few hundred KB and stuck again.

    OK I figured, I’ll just start some of the same on GHCN v4… and Squid gave a nogo for exceeding the connection limit….

    So at a minimum, the server is limiting connections, then it also looks like my ISP is preferentially serving their TV Money Maker over machine to machine downloads. Then, too Firefox seems reluctant to poll for bandwidth often enough (I.e. it did nothing overnight, but click on stop / resume it finished pronto…)

    FWIW this FireFox has ever more steange behaviors on clicks and mouse movements. Whatever they did in the rewrite to use Rust / LLVM was not good. The older version is much better behaved. One goal for my in progress new browser station will be a non-FireFox browser. May mean a non-Devuan OS, but we’ll see…

    For now I have what I needed, so can proceed with the temperature data. I’m going to try a script for the download (it worked well a couple of years ago…) I’d just wanted to grab a couple of datasets, not rsync the whole thing, but Oh Well… IF QOS Games cause me to consume 5x the bandwidth, not my problem…

    QOS= Quality Of Service. A router facility that lets the router admin allocate more or less bandwith to different users or types of traffic. Such as AT&T giving full speed to their DirecTV product while slowing Netflix or data downloads… Had been prevented for ISPs by Net Neutrality laws, now fine for anti-competitive practices use…

  44. corsair red says:

    Another Ian,
    Thanks for the links.
    That Salon article was entertaining reading until I got here:
    But for some people they are turned on and titillated by Donald Trump
    From there it was evidence of very sick minds, the two further sentences I read. That was more than enough.

    Greatly cheered by the Pointman commentary, THE STATE OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

  45. Another Ian says:


    Your temperature fiddlers will have to pull their fingers out. They have serious competition:-

    “History keeps getting colder — ACORN2 raises Australia’s warming rate by over 20%”


  46. Another Ian says:

    coarsair red

    Re Pointman and the democrats

    “Friday Funny – Welcome to the “AOCene” ”

    “From the “Lemmings in White Satin” department (with apologies to the Moody Blues).”


  47. H.R. says:

    @all – Hit up the Florida State Fair with Mrs. H.R., my sis, and brother-in-law on this past February 14th (H.R…. you romantic devil, you). It’s much like any State fair with two notable exceptions.

    They have a Living History museum called Cracker Country that consists of 13 historical buildings moved to a site on the fairgrounds. It’s normally only open by arrangement during the year to school groups and such. But during the fair it’s opened and staffed by volunteers in period costume and with the skills to demonstrate and make the common goods of the time, and their output is for sale! Want some handmade rope? Make it yourself priced by the foot. Want some blacksmith forged items? Talk to the smith that made them and watch him make more stuff. Duck decoys? Same thing. Print your own postcard on a hand operated printing press and have it postmarked next door at the typical turn-of-the-century rural post office next door. And more!

    Here’s a link to the organization that runs and staffs “Cracker Country.”


    The second interesting exhibit is the steam museum with operating steam engines. It was amazing!

    Here’s a link, but it doesn’t have nearly enough pictures of the steam engines. I took some pictures, but I don’t think any will be good enough to upload and post. There was too much contrast between the bright sunny light of the day outside the exhibit and the equipment under shelter for my crap flip phone’s camera to handle. If any images are remotely viewable after I see them on something besides the 1-1/2″ screen, I’ll post them.


    There was another excellent exhibit on cattle ranching in Florida. Anyone from cattle country (Texas, California Montana, etc.) would enjoy the nice collection of branding irons, saddles, spurs, leather lassos, bull whips, and other typical cattle wrangling gear.

    Oh…. I think I mentioned on a prior W.O.O.D. that my brother-in-law is one of that rare breed of hominids that is a native Floridian. At the fair I asked hem to remind me how far his family went back in Florida (I knew at least to his great-grandfather which had coe up in conversation) and he confirmed that his family was there under Spanish rule. Just now thinking about it, I can see a bit of Spaniard and Seminole in him. On the looks side, it doesn’t do him many favors, but he has learned a lot of the ‘old Florida ways’ that have been passed down. He’s my go-to guy when I see something native to Florida that’s puzzling to me.

    Anyhow, if anyone reading here finds themselves moving to or snow-birding in Florida,or lives in Florida but hasn’t taken the time to hit up the State Fair, I highly recommend a day at the fair if only to see those exhibits.

    P.S. According to my brother-in-law the term ‘cracker’ came from the sound of the cracking whips that you’d hear as they herded cattle through the Florida brush. The wranglers were called ‘crackers’ from the sound of their whips. I’ll have to check up on that. (Trust, but verify, even if it comes from your native Floridian brother-in-law 😜)

  48. H.R. says:

    Idle thought: The warmunists can have my icicles when they pry them from my cold dead fingers… if their fingers are still working.

  49. Larry Ledwick says:

    Bunch of folks had a bad day in Missouri chain reaction crash.

  50. corsair red says:

    You can get forged duck decoys at the fair? Wow! That alone might make it worth the visit. The Living History Museum sounds like just the place to realize how good we have it today.

    Native Floridian here also, H.R. Not connected to the Spanish, though. My ancestors came from Germany in the late 1800s. Along the way, Colonel William Travis, yes, that Travis, married into the family, so I am related to him. That and $2 gets me coffee at McDonalds.

  51. cdquarles says:

    That’s interesting. Locally, crackers were Scots-Irish folk that didn’t tan in the sun. Instead, they got sun burned and their necks, of which the backs of them were exposed, turned red. I do have a memory of the term coming from cattle ranching in the old South, primarily central and/or southern Georgia. So, maybe, the term cracker and the term redneck have origins in cattle ranching in the old South.

  52. corsair red says:

    @Another Ian,
    “Friday Funny – Welcome to the “AOCene” ”
    Excellent, and spot on!

  53. corsair red says:

    Not as long as you don’t claim them as originals.

  54. jim2 says:

    Trump’s video showing Dims at the SOTU …

  55. E.M.Smith says:

    Overnight, 321 SPAM messages showed up in the queue. Looks like a new crop of Spammers with a new method have popped up. Oh Well. I usually service the SPAM & Moderation queues before doing anything else, so I’m off to make some coffee and work my way through this mess.

    Usually a new spammer sends out a few dozen, realizes they don’t get through, and after a few more tries, moves to other targets. This one seems more stupid than most…

  56. Larry Ledwick says:

    This is the new version of that video – just tweeted by @realDonaldTrump 8 minutes ago.
    Same video content but different music so Youtube does not have an excuse to block it

  57. Larry Ledwick says:

    If this is legitimate it raises some interesting questions.

    It will be interesting to see how this is used and what if anything gets discovered being transported by congressional members and others gets nailed with this.

  58. jim2 says:

    What really gets my panties in a wad, well one of a few dozen or so!!, is the Redimowits in the Senate “negotiated” that God-awful spending bill, yet Trump takes all the arrows. That sucks. The Redimowit party at large appears not to have found a spine in the last 2 years.

  59. David A says:

    Re “321 SPAM messages showed…

    About 18 months ago I tried to get a very brilliant over educated academic to read a couple of your posts.
    You are on the academics brain-washed list as a ” do not read” list. Intellectual cowards.

  60. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well this is interesting, President Trump is using Obama’s declared emergency for Mexican Drug cartels as the vehicle to get funding for the wall. It has been in place since 2011, I bet he will use it to seize El Chapo funds now that he has been sentenced.


  61. Bill in Oz says:

    I wonder if the spam attack is related to the fact that you have been discussed on JoNova blog here in Oz. There were a whole lot of dopey ‘spam’ type comments there as well, in the past couple of days…

  62. Bill in Oz says:

    I watched the video of the chain reaction crash..Those folks are driving in a white out..Barely any visibility beyond 20 meters.. And with snow on the frozen ground, hardly any grip between the tyres and the road..No snow chains at all ! That is a major accident just waiting to happen..Scarry !

  63. H.R. says:

    @Bill in Oz – Are you sure those dopey comments weren’t mine?😜

    I like it when someone drops a link to an interesting topic on her blog. It’s not on my regular rounds of blog reading so links that get dropped here are usually of interest to readers here and I head on over to check it out. Over the years, I’ve only commented there a few times.

  64. Larry Ledwick says:

    Your laugh for the day

  65. philjourdan says:

    Re: Amazon pulling out of NYC. I had to laugh when AOC spent the “$3b” that had been promised Amazon, NOt realizing it was not a cost, but a discount (instead of reaping $30b in taxes the state would only take $27b from Amazon).

    Reminds me of the ditzy daughter on Last Man Standing (Mandy) who stole from her father’s store and claimed that since they got a 20% discount, she just bought 20% of what she wanted and saved all the discounts for that.

    ANd she voted.

  66. Larry Ledwick says:

    Hmm this is interesting, it implies that President Trump actually made out quite well on the funding bill, but the major media are just not reporting on those wins while pushing rumors of major losses.


  67. jim2 says:

    I hope that article is right about the Redimowits winning something, LL.

  68. Larry Ledwick says:

    Yellow vests are pulling down EU flags and replacing them with French flags.

  69. Larry Ledwick says:

    Check out http://spaceweather.com/
    Note spotless day counts on the left side of the page.

    Sunspot number: 0
    What is the sunspot number?
    Updated 16 Feb 2019

    Spotless Days
    Current Stretch: 16 days
    2019 total: 30 days (64%)
    2018 total: 221 days (61%)
    2017 total: 104 days (28%)
    2016 total: 32 days (9%)
    2015 total: 0 days (0%)
    2014 total: 1 day (<1%)
    2013 total: 0 days (0%)
    2012 total: 0 days (0%)
    2011 total: 2 days (<1%)
    2010 total: 51 days (14%)
    2009 total: 260 days (71%)
    2008 total: 268 days (73%)
    2007 total: 152 days (42%)
    2006 total: 70 days (19%)
    Updated 16 Feb 2019

    Thermosphere Climate Index
    today: 4.04x1010 W Cold
    Max: 49.4x1010 W Hot (10/1957)
    Min: 2.05x1010 W Cold (02/2009)
    explanation | more data
    Updated 15 Feb 2019

    The Radio Sun
    10.7 cm flux: 71 sfu
    explanation | more data
    Updated 16 Feb 2019

    Reason I looked is that Colorado front range will take a dive into the freezer over the next two days, with some brisk temperatures and a bit of snow tomorrow.

    Low: 17 °F

    High: 29 °F
    Low: 6 °F

    High: 15 °F
    Low: 3 °F

    High: 17 °F
    Low: 5 °F

  70. Another Ian says:

    philjourdan says:
    17 February 2019 at 2:27 am

    “ANd she voted.”

    Remember what George Carlin said about voters?

  71. E.M.Smith says:

    That signing statement implies a big backstory…It sure sounds like a lot of attempts were made to tie up Trump, and he just said no.

  72. Larry Ledwick says:

    Yes I got the same impression – he just flipped them the bird and said prove my interpretations and traditional exercises of executive authority can be curtailed by Congress. He will suck them into court and during discovery will air all their dirty immigration laundry and broadcast to the world that in previous administrations they said exactly the same thing he is saying now. They even voted for money to fund the exact same barriers he is asking for and declared that drugs were a national emergency.

    I bet he has enough on them that they find a face saving way not to challenge it in the courts, declaring they are ‘for the sake of the country or the angel moms” not going to litigate these questions. Meanwhile they will push the story he is being a dictator and ignoring the law.

  73. Larry Ledwick says:

    Related to above.

  74. Another Ian says:

    For your thermometer exploration


    “I did some analysis on this, and discovered that since 1970, NOAA has been losing December data much faster than they have been losing July data. This causes post-1970 temperatures to be skewed upwards.”

  75. Another Ian says:

    Re Python

    “I’m curious if anyone uses Jupyter Notebooks to do anything constructive with Python. It seems like a good way to do things when wanting to share more than just code, but is it as practical as it seems?”


  76. E.M.Smith says:

    Well, I’ve put a brand new 32 GB uSD into the PineA64 board ( roughly the same as the R.PiM3) and I’m taking it for an extended test drive. Why? Because Pine sells a laptop using the Pine64 board. I’m hoping they will eventually use the faster boards, but for now, this is the choice.

    As the 2nd hand Mac (running from a uSD as the SSD had died) has now had the PSU also give up the ghost, I’m likely to get some other portable to replace it. Why spend $30 for a PSU when I can spend about 4x that and get an entire new system?

    Two candidates are “in play” – the Pine lowend one, and “some Chromebook” with a Linux installed. I’ll be (finally) wiping my history on the old HP Chromebox and doing a linux install via cruton. (The ONLY way you can install something else, even just adding a 2nd OS via cruton, wipes your personal data from the box. Which for me, isn’t much. Just some bookmarks I’ve exported. Everything else is on a removable dongle, but I get to recreate the account…) Then I’ll see what I think of that linux. If good, then the laptop wins…

    So I’ve just done the install of Debian Stretch on the Pine64 – latest version. Had to specifically do an “apt-get install” on both lxde and xorg to get the desktop enviroment. Installed both FireFox-esr and Chromium. Both work. Had to do “the usual” clipping their wings on data snarfing up… FireFox still has that thing where if you have spell check turned on (default, BTW) it goes open loop on one process trying to spell check… so I’ve turned it off to finish this comment. Later I’ll go do that “install a dictionary” thing to fix it

    So far, the big Bad news is just that video sound doesn’t work. In either browser. So still “some asembly required” to get working sound. Videos play in small windows OK (not tested big yet). But sound is Dead Jim.

    While I hate the snooping of Canonical (the Ubuntu desktop search gathers interesting info about you for the mother ship… don’t use it.) I’ll likely burn an Ubuntu image to another chip and see if it has working sound. (Eliminates all HW issues…). This is all to my Real TV HDMI, so it simply ought to work. But it is Armbian and the embedded guys usually leave sound and video for “whenever”, IMHO.

    In any case, I’ve now got “Yet Another Browser Set” in play. This is where I’ll be doing my misc. browsing stuff for a while. All the prior history and “identity” markers for the machine, OS, etc. gone “like tears in the rain”… ;-)

    My general impression so far is it would make an OK low end laptop workstation, and if sound worked, an acceptable place for videos (at some res). We’ll see if that changes as “issue” fail to resolve or bring their friends….

  77. E.M.Smith says:

    I installed the newest Ubuntu on the Pine64, and it would not even try to boot. (Guess the “testing” branch needs more testing…) then dropped back to an older release (Xenial on a 3.10.107 kernel) and it worked, but no sound.

    I’m not sure what I did that fixed it as the last thing I did was remove one thing I’d done, so it was likely inhibiting sound when I did the thing that really mattered… Possibly that I did an apt-get install alsa. I had alsa-mixer but no alsa. Then in Pulseaudio I set very single control I could find to about 3/4. The Pulseaudio meter showed the sound moving, but no sound…

    I removed the lines I’d put in /etc/asound.conf and suddenly had sound. So something in the earlier batch was likely the fix.

    In any case, I’ve run a 720p video at full screen with audio over HDMI and it is quite nice. Not great, but no visible bad things. As my screen is set to 720p (also for unknown reasons but I like it this way – no squinting as the TV is a bit further way…) I’m just going to leave it as is.

    At some point I’ll see if some of this same stuff fixes sound in the Armbian / Debian system… but as this one is using an XFCE desktop it is fairly light weight and it isn’t acting like a pig the way many Ubuntu installs do. (This is an Armbian / Ubuntu so also tuned by guys who like things efficient).

    So, for now, this is the Daily Driver and I’ll fiddle with the Debian one. Eventually one or the other will get the “Devuan Uplift” procedure to perform a SystemD-Ectomy.

    I found pulseaudio to be way over the top complicated. 10 top level menu selections… How about just make the sound come out the places that make sound and give me a volume control?… My sense of Pottering as a guy with a tendency to make way over complicated code with baroque feature sets and still it doesn’t let you do what you want… has been increased… If SystemD is written in the same style as his PulseAudio… well, “not good”. Look at the mac: Click the speaker icon, slide the volume control. K.I.S.S. (when you add a bluetooth headset it is a little more complicated as you must connect to it and choose an output, but until then, it is NOOB friendly).

    So, OK, I’ve got it to where it’s working. I have 2 browsers to choose from, working AV so YouTubes are a go, and it generally feels ‘fast enough’ for generic desktop and browsing stuff. This from a fairly low end card. I could live with this in a $100 laptop.

    This is on the Chromium browser and it feels fast and snappy. Doesn’t seem to be a memory hog (yet) but I’ve also not got 2 dozen tabs open, so we’ll see ;-)

    With that, I’m moving on to work on some other things on the other workstation and this will just be entertainment YouTubes and browsing for stuff. (i.e. no personal information, no money information, no attached data stores, …)

  78. E.M.Smith says:

    Well that didn’t take long… In FireFox, at Youtube, watching a music video with a lot of pan and zoom (i.e. lots of pixels changing with motion) it gets jittery at Theatre mode and has halts full screen. More what I was expecting from the low end hardware… I’m going to redo this test in Chromium, but right now it’s OK in small size, so “OK” for minimal use; not going to be a TV Experience Media Center… Sound stayed good though. Didn’t get jittery sound…

  79. E.M.Smith says:

    Well 2 things. Chromium is significantly better, and I need a heat sink.

    For general use, the bare board didn’t get hot enough to heat limit, so I’ve not bothered with a heat sink. Running videos large size it pegs the cores and heat limits. (htop shows temperature and GHz, so you can watch it happen).

    Chromium, at Theatre Mode is FINE. Running about 60% to 70% total utilization. FFox is pegged then… Chromium only touches thermal limit a little in theater mode (enough that setting a zippo lighter on top of the CPU chip was enough cooling to have the video be fine. So with a nice heat sink, I can at least get theater mode without issues out of it, using Chromium. The full screen has occasional horizontal discontinuity lines across the image (but doesn’t get jitter or stop) and is heat limiting. With a real big heat sink, it might (barely) drive full 720p video full screen.

    OK, I don’t watch TV on my laptop, so I’m OK with theater mode or 480p for the odd “how to” or conference video. So I can “live with” the PineBook. That’s my lower bound though. Something with more “zip” would certainly be better.

  80. E.M.Smith says:

    Reran the same video in FireFox. Uses the same 60%-70% CPU at small size. At Theater mode it’s running 70% to 84% and thermal limiting back to 70’s. That ~15% less efficient is enough to make it painful for videos, while the Chromium speed is fine for theater mode and overall the experience is acceptable.

    OK, note to self: Add heat sink and use Chromium, FireFox is a fat inefficient pig with higher memory usage too…

  81. jim2 says:

    I’ve been using Linux for about 10 years now. Over those years, there have been times I’ve had the severe sort of audio problems you mention. They can be really trying. Even now, on a machine with lots of resources, the sound won’t work on occasion. Thankfully, a reboot fixes it.

  82. Pingback: The SystemD Armbian Pine64 Swap Trap | Musings from the Chiefio

  83. Another Ian says:

    “This is what AOC might do about it:”


    And the rest of the thread too

  84. E.M.Smith says:


    I’ve “discovered” that a big part of the problem comes directly from Pottering. Writer of PulseAudio. It now ships by default in Ubuntu. It is a Swiss Army Knife of sound. The big problem is that it does so much AND is tied to “his way”, so for example:

    It comes configured to mute your computer sound and send the output to your amplifier.
    (Of course everyone has a stereo amp plugged into their gaming station, right?…)

    You turn it off with a gnome-mixer app… that works with Gnome…
    (Of coure everyone runs Gnome Desktop – it integrates more with SystemD!)

    In it you unclick “mute”.

    Such facilities are NOT in the lightweight desktops I like to use ( i.e. LXDE).

    Face Palm….

    Now I know why over the last couple of years I’ve lost a couple of weeks of my life trying to just get sound to my speakers from a dozen or three of computers….

    We’ve reached the Tower Of Babble stage of systems management vs desktop vs widgets and doodads galore.

    BTW, Pulse Audio sits on top of ALSA (the Linux sound facility). BOTH have a couple of volume controls AND mute buttons. Any one of them set wrong, you get no sound. Alsa may or may not be installed and you may need to learn that you need to install it and then configure it.

    Didn’t anyone think that maybe, just maybe, we don’t all want “mixer boards” and 10 inputs with 20 outputs all shut off by default except for the one we don’t want? Let the guys who want a sound studio install the mixerboards and PulseAwshit and just let the rest of us have HDMI sound out when HDMI is used for the monitor.

  85. Larry Ledwick says:

    I wonder if anyone had made a tool or browser add on that can un-mute the sound?
    I would think that would be the least intrusive fix for his shoddy programming assumption.

    Browser add-ons are trivial to install and those who want to go some other direction could easily use them to fix the problem.

    Looks like firefox is also going down that hard link road


  86. pouncer says:

    Experience with TPO solar — interesting report from what appears to be an unusually savvy reporter.


  87. E.M.Smith says:

    BTW, the notion that the current SPAM spike might be deliberate harassment might have some legs. Another 210 today, almost all (like over 99%) at just the one article about GHCN by altitude. A more typical pattern is one spammer across any open article. Not multiple spams against one article.

  88. Larry Ledwick says:

    If you are drawing flack you are over the target, sounds like the altitude issue is something someone does not want discussed on the web – that implies like the hocky stick it is an intentional manipulation for effect.

  89. Larry Ledwick says:

    This is a hoot!

  90. Larry Ledwick says:

    I have a bad feeling about this!
    Does anyone else envision the Titanic sailing toward an iceberg of unexpected vulnerabilities providing a gaping hole in our intelligence community info ship?


  91. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry L:

    So any Chinese or Russian plant admin at Amazon Web Services can potentially capture the flag on our intel services… Oh Great… /sarc;

    (Ignoring the other point that one bomb on a big AWS site then cripples the military…)

    FWIW, I did Disaster Recovery Planning at A Major Florida Entertainment Company with thousands acre theme parks… and was required to “come up with scenarios” to take out the data center as part of our testing process. I’d spin the scenario, then we’d challenge the testee to prove they would survive it. FWIW, it doesn’t take a bomb. Just 2 large trucks into the 2 separate power feed locations. You will be down for a week or three waiting for new transformers… IF the data center folks are very well prepared, a third for the generator location.

    (All my folks were successful at seamlessly swapping to the alternative data center a few States away, so there’s that. That data center, BTW, has no address found in several searches and doesn’t show up well at all on Google Maps…even if you DO know just where to look. Can you say “hidden and secure”? I knew you could… And no truck access without checkpoints and such either…)

    The point being that I don’t come to this Disaster Scenario stuff as Just Some Guy. I did it for a living for several years in Real World planning / preparation.

    I would hope the Military has a “home base” alternative site for anything done on AWS and they just rent the AWS time for non-critical things where they would like a bit more speed sometimes…
    But “Hope is not a strategy. -E.M.Smith”

    The Stupid, it burns….

  92. Another Ian says:


    This morning WordPress/Firefox is back to one click on the back arrow working here

  93. Larry Ledwick says:

    As much as I dislike Bill Gates and his companies products, and many of the things he does or has done, being willing to say the unconventional is one of his strengths.


  94. Another Ian says:

    Hmmm. Firefox/Wordpress not working now

  95. pg sharrow says:

    Maybe If Bill points out the foolishness of these things, they will no longer be fashionable among the “special” people…pg

  96. E.M.Smith says:

    @Another Ian:

    Maybe your system is having issues as nobody else is claiming widespread problems?

  97. jim2 says:

    I am disappointed Trump signed this. Sucks!

    President Donald Trump has signed the Rapid DNA Act into law which means the police can routinely take DNA samples from people who are arrested but not yet convicted of a crime.


  98. llanfar says:

    @jim2 I’m sure a court private challenge is forthcoming…

  99. E.M.Smith says:


    Since the Police can take fingerprints and photos even if you are not convicted of a crime, that precedent will be used to say this is just more ID like that and it will not be overturned.

  100. llanfar says:

    @EM, you’re neglecting one unique aspect – that DNA collected from you can identify your kids, parents.

  101. E.M.Smith says:


    I’m not neglecting it, I’m pointing out how the courts will rule and why. They will neglect it.

    Since a couple of crimes have been solved (including some gruesome murders) via relatives putting DNA on sites like 23 & Me; it will be a major FEATURE to get as much DNA as possible from everyone possible. Civil liberties and right of privacy be damned.

    I’ve already had two “Donor Children” contact me after a DNA match to my Sister (who called expressing concern that the proximity meant a 1/2 sibling and she was thinking Dad might have played around. I got to explain I was a donor… and the contact was made). So yeah, I’m well aware of that…

    I’m also well aware that when something as juicy as DNA comes along, traditional rights go out the window with the Police and Judges. Just look at what Asset Forfeiture as led to… Carry cash, they take it, no crime involved. You might think that violated your rights to Due Process… or Privacy… or just plain old Property Rights… but given the loot they can collect…


    What’s that line about ~’In times of oppression speaking the truth becomes a radical act’? Or something like that…


    In a Time of Universal Deceit — Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act

    George Orwell? V. G. Venturini? David Hoffman? Charlotte Despard? Antonio Gramsci? Anonymous? Apocryphal?

    Dear Quote Investigator: In 1949 George Orwell described a nightmarish future in his classic dystopian novel 1984. There is a popular quotation that is supposed to be contained within this work, but it is not there. Here are three versions:

    In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
    Speaking the truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act.

    Maybe Orwell wrote this expression in an essay or another book, but I have not been able to find it. Could you explore this quote?

    Quote Investigator: Several researchers have attempted to find these words in George Orwell’s oeuvre and have not succeeded. Currently, there is no substantive evidence that he said or wrote this quote. He died in 1950, and the earliest match located by QI appeared in a 1982 book titled “Partners in Ecocide: Australia’s Complicity in the Uranium Cartel” by Venturino Giorgio Venturini. The statement was presented as an epigraph enclosed within quotation marks and attributed to Orwell; however, a specific originating text was not identified. The word “universal” was omitted: 1

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell
    In 1994 a psychological study of the novel 1984 referred to a revolutionary act in the text. But, as in the 1970 citation, the revolutionary act was the liaison: 10

    His “love affair” is the maximum private love possible between two individuals in 1984, and even that is only possible as a revolutionary act, and must end in torture and death.
    In conclusion, based on current evidence George Orwell probably did not employ this saying. The quote was attributed to Orwell in its earliest known appearance in 1982. The expression evolved into a handful of variants, but the ascription to Orwell was preserved. The origin is unclear, but it is possible that the statement began as a proposed summary of Orwell’s position, and it was later incorrectly converted into a quotation. This article represents a snapshot of what is known, and QI hopes that other researchers will be able to build on this information in the future.

    OK, so not a quote from Orwell, but still a good line to ponder.

  102. jim2 says:

    EMS – RE Asset Forfeiture. SCOTUS just made a ruling favorable to us serfs. Didn’t eliminate it entirely, but posited that limits must exist.
    The Supreme Court ruled unanimously on Wednesday that state and local governments are not exempt from the Constitutional prohibition against imposing “excessive fines” on citizens, significantly constraining the ability of law enforcement to seize the property of criminal suspects.

    Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, writing for eight of the nine justices, argued that state and local governments unconstrained by the Eighth Amendment’s excessive-fines clause are likely to abuse their power.

    “For good reason, the protection against excessive fines has been a constant shield throughout Anglo-American history: Exorbitant tolls undermine other constitutional liberties,” Ginsburg wrote. “Excessive fines can be used, for example, to retaliate against or chill the speech of political enemies. . . . Even absent a political motive, fines may be employed in a measure out of accord with the penal goals of retribution and deterrence.”


  103. jim2 says:

    I enjoy reading Lubos Motl’s posts. Not that I even come close to understanding those what deal with particle physics. I read those also, hoping to catch a ray of light emanating through a crack in the door from the room inhabited by him. I enjoy those also that fling poo at the SJWs in physics and elsewhere. But this one is accessible to laymen, and a very good read with some interesting rabbit holes along the way.
    “Boltzmann vs foes”: precursor to “QM vs anti-quantum zealots”

    Yesterday, Ludwig Eduard Boltzmann would have had a chance to celebrate his 175th birthday if he hadn’t killed that chance by hanging himself at age of 62, while vacationing with his wife Henriette and daughter Elsa (in Tybein) near Trieste, Northern Italy, Austria-Hungary.


  104. jim2 says:

    O’Rourke is planning a Blitz in conservative states and my gut feeling is that he will be the media darling as he is the less nutty of the Dimowits – at least in appearance. From the article:

    “If you’ve got space—a garage, your home, your business—that you’d like to donate for a pop-up, please stand up right now,” Malitz said. As people rose from their seats, Malitz summoned a round of applause—and then a dozen campaign staffers guided them to paperwork that would lock down their commitment. Then the same exercise for those volunteers who would manage a pop-up office or lead training for phone banks and block walks. Just minutes after having introduced his crowd to this mammoth project for the first time, Malitz had inducted hundreds of them into leadership roles.


  105. Larry Ledwick says:

    Turn about is fair play, now the Dems get to deal with the exercise of local discretion on their crazy programs.


    Like in Colorado and a few other states, Sheriffs as the highest law enforcement official in their county are nullifying laws that violate the Constitution.

    Here in Colorado the majority of the County Sheriff’s stated that the high capacity magazine ban was unenforceable and they would not enforce it and waste law enforcement resources on a useless task.

    (and for Serioso who does not believe anything unless it shows up in the NYT etc.)

  106. Larry Ledwick says:

    Classic example of FUD news, (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt), as noted at the end of the article the amounts present are ridiculously low.


    Does that mean to ignore it – no but just because you can detect it is not necessarily a problem.
    As pointed out at the end of the article (which many will not read) it is physically impossible to consume enough to exceed limits to exposure.

  107. Larry Ledwick says:

    Tesla the car wreck that keeps on going like the energizer bunny.

    Keeps re-igniting in the tow yard after catching fire in an accident.

    Those things become incendiary devices once the battery pack is damaged.

  108. Larry Ledwick says:

    If this is accurate it is a level 10 troll of the Dems.

  109. Larry Ledwick says:

    Hmmm this is interesting!

  110. jim2 says:

    LL @ https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/02/14/w-o-o-d-14-february-2019/#comment-108866

    I’m thinking the Dimowits were so pleased with their dead voters, they would give it a try in court!! ::))

  111. E.M.Smith says:

    Well I’ve spent the day whacking on NetBSD on the Pine A64. It is supposed to be a “put n uSD and boot” and that does work. Then you find that the rest is a “kit of parts”.

    Sure, you can install X11 and LXDE. The source is in the archives somewhere. Might need porting…

    So where I’ve gotten to is a running NetBSD on the board. The pkgsrc (like apt-get or pacman a package manager) install and the ./bootstrap done (which also includes a 3 hour download of all the source packages – no there was not warning just “run this” and then it takes 3 hours. “The Experienced User will know….” That badge of honor worn by the Unix Folks when dealing with the unwashed… Yet even those of us well-washed can run into surprises at times.

    Why NetBSD? Because OpenBSD basically said “bugger off” in a couple of ways per that board / and arm in general. Because I’d done FreeBSD from source before on the R.Pi and supposedly NetBSD was easier. Because the way the description was written it sounded like ti was “port done ready to go” while FreeBSD is more of (the v6 works, the v7 is mostly right, we’re thinking about 64 bit v8 sort of…) and the NetBSD was a 64 bit build.

    But the reality is that in all of the Free Software World, anything off the main line of wide use gets ever less attention. Intel PCs with the most common peripheral cards get most of the attention and work and ports done and… while every move away (laptop form factor with different devices, newest CPU / GPU / Boards, different chip types (Arm, MIPS, PowerPC, etc.) and newest instruction sets (64 bit) all lag. The more of those apply, the longer the lag.

    The work is largely done by volunteer labor, so you will have more people able to volunteer on the most common bits of hardware and boards / chips / instruction sets that have already shipped in some volume.

    So trying to get 64 Bit Arm on small volume boards is just looking for unfinished code. Especially on the newest boards.

    I could likely have gotten FreeBSD with a desktop running on the R.Pi in just a couple of hours. It’s been out a long time, sold millions of copies, and has had FreeBSD for a while. But I wanted to use the Pine A64 for something. Live and learn…

    I’m not giving up, but once something significantly exceeds the time budget it goes on the slow boat priority.

    What’s prompted me to bother?

    Given the PC Crap (Code Of Conduct) harassing Linus and the Kernel builders, given that IBM bought Red Hat so their development contributions are at risk of dropping over time, given the fracturing of Linux by force feeding folks the broken by design SystemD, and given that MicroSoft has bought a Platinum Membership on the Linux Foundation (so a seat on the Board Of Directors, access to strategy sessions, etc. etc.) along with GitHub (yeah, they bought it to….): I’m just looking to get some insurance in my world. See how much of what I’m doing can be put n BSD and with how much work.

    Should those forces start to “break Linux” (or perhaps “already have” given SystemD…) the choices are fairly limited. “Suck it up and hang in there” (gak!), move to BSD (work, but nice), use some other odd system (Plan 9, Gnu Hurd, Devuan (for now), GNU/FreeBSD kernel, etc.), “Roll your own” like LFS (lots of work…).

    I’ve done a Linux From Scratch build. It can be done but is rather about as painful as just doing FreeBSD from sources and not as good a product. Devuan is my choice, but there is a chance it will not survive the big threats to Linux (listed above) and doesn’t run everywhere. Just hang on and hope does not suit me. Then using some strange very low use OS variation is just increasing the pain level of being off the main line of development by another order of magnitude or two. That sort of leaves “Try BSD” by default. So I did.

    The net conclusion from this is that the BSDs just need a bunch more Fan Boys pushing their own “Distributions”. Doing the work to get it running on something list the Pine series or Odroids and then packages them up whit a nice default GUI and all built and in the package already. Yeah, not the BSD way, but it would increase market share a LOT. I’d be running it on most of my machines today.

    OK Well. Maybe “tomorrow” will be “another day”…

  112. Larry Ledwick says:

    I have been pondering rebuilding my back up battery stack and some related emergency power issues.

    For those in the market for top line heavy duty deep cycle batteries, (emergency backup, solar, marine or RV, you might want to look at these folks).


    At this point they look to be the best batteries you can buy for those sorts of applications. A bit steeper in price than a walmart deep cycle battery but a lot better specs and looks like top flight design and structure. Also made in the USA.

    I have a couple distributors a short drive from where I live so well represented.

    I have also started collecting some solar panel hardware, and have settled on two different pieces.

    I am picking up these panels from Amazon (so far have 4 of them) but will get a few more.


    I also got these portable panels (really cool design) folds up like an artists portfolio so you can cart it with you on a picnic or what ever.


    I also got one of these (20 watt hand crank generator)
    Made in China (takes a while for delivery) sturdy metal case, not sure if the gear box has nylon gears or metal gears – I assume plastic, but has a couple nice features.

    You can get direct power out of the generator or select an output voltage from several voltage range options. At 2000 generator RPM you get these options plus standard usb out put jacks.

    Hand crank generator, the faster the shaking speed, the greater the power, the maximum power is about 20w
    Corresponding voltage and current: 3v / 6.6A, 5v / 4A, 6v / 3.3A, 9v / 2.2A, 12v / 1.6A, 15v / 1.3A

    Still pondering exactly how I want to set up the solar controller kit and the specific batteries I want to get, but this gives me the ability to have basic power to accessories during a prolonged power out situation, or if I ever get a retirement cabin or something similar I could be completely off grid for extended periods of time, especially if you augment with one of the little cheap generator sets.

    My computer hardware and communications gear has changed a lot over the years so I need to do a full power demand audit of all my stuff and figure out the exact final power capacity to shoot for.

    Nominal power out of those large panels is 100 watts, but in cold weather direct sun will likely make 120 watts per panel near noon. In normal overcast conditions they will drop to about 25% of nominal output and heavy dark overcast day only about 10%.

    I also got one of these 200 watt permanent magnet generators designed to be used on small vertical axis wind mills, but could be powered by anything that would turn it at 600 rpm at about 1/4 hp shaft input power. (water wheel, wind mill, peddle powered generator) 60w continuous is about the max you would get for peddle power even if in very good shape. Or any expedient drive like an idler wheel driving off a car tire with the car on jack stands or a giant human powered exercise wheel. For those of you planning / currently living in hurricane country this would pretty well set you up for an extended loss of power situation.


    These small trickle charger solar panels to keep your RV batteries alive are also on the list. One of them will go in the van.


    (although you really should get a small voltage controller to fit with it to precisely set what your float voltage is)


    I am using the pay as you go lay away plan – just buy one of the items each month as you can afford it. Holding off on the batteries because by comparison they are a relatively big ticket item and you need to buy them all at once so they have matched dates of production so you are not mixing new with older batteries.

  113. Larry Ledwick says:

    Drat lost a link – for the 20w hand crank generator.


  114. E.M.Smith says:

    Just an FYI:

    The very day we started talking about the huge spam surge from 20 or so to 200-300 /day on the Thermometers By Altitude posting maybe being a “designed attack” by the warmers, things dropped back to the more typical 10 or so SPAM / day.

    Did the spammer just learn it wasn’t working and stop?
    Did WordPress do some kind of block?
    Was it a planned DOS attack to consume my time that was “outed”?

    No way to know. But….

    Cue Twilight Zone Theme ;-)

  115. E.M.Smith says:


    My solution to the Aw Shit power problem is a 300W inverter and a Diesel car. At present that car goes about 5 months between fill ups. And would be longer but I need to move it 2x / week to avoid abandoned vehicle notices

    I did a lot of looking at wind and solar power sources, and realized that wind was hopeless in a suburb at low elevation while solar was crazy high cost per W-Hr.

    I still have a dream of someday making an EarthShip somewhere… but the economics never pencils out.

  116. Larry Ledwick says:

    As always, depends on the use case being addressed. Solar is terrible for base load power at a municipal level but in certain use cases like powering a traffic sign with little maintenance for years, it is very good.

    Costs have come way down and efficiency has gone up. They finally have saturated the pretty bauble green warrior demand and have to sell them at reasonable prices now.

    These panels are 100 watt nominal panels so figure 4-5 hours full sun a day on average, at $100 each that is (@5 hours) 500 watt hours a day for a one time cost of $100, the first day the power costs .20 per watt hour which sounds expensive but over a month you have 15 kwh for $6.66 per kwh – – – still sounds expensive. At one year of usage, that cost per watt hour drops to $0.56 per kwh or about 5x commercial rates here (which are 11.26 cents per kwh) – so the pay off cost for long term power is about 5 years on the panel. Over 5 years they are cheaper than commercial power (ie almost free power).

    Of course you need to add in the cost of batteries and controllers etc. But for a retirement place if I can replace a large fraction of my power consumption with solar, buying the panels and hardware now while I have a good job is like buying a prepaid energy card for future use that is good for 20
    – 25 years.

    It is a classic pay me now or pay me later equation. This month I was billed $62.71 for electricity, in 10 years or so when I actually fully retire, I will have enough solar to live my current lifestyle mostly pre-paid, and if I use that system for more than 5 – 6 years my effective power cost goes toward zero. (actual out of pocket cost post retirement is essentially zero, since most of the costs were paid up front years in advance)

    Now all I need to do is find a small place I can put the stuff on.

    Oh by the way, this is not going on the roof, it will be a near vertical instillation on the south facing wall where it is nearly immune to large hail and gives max power when you need it most in the winter.

  117. ossqss says:

    FWIW, on any lead acid battery, I would suggest having, and regularly using, a desulfator to multiply the battery potential life by 2x or more. I got 7 years out of my golf cart starting battery with routine maintenace with that device. Normally here in Fla, 3-4 years on a battery is doing pretty good with the heat. I obtained a large Stanley multi purpose charger at Lowes. It is a 40 amp variable down to trickle charge, 110 amp start, alternator tester, and desufator). Be aware the pancake fan did go in it after about 2 years, but not a biggie to replace via local purchase as they don’t sell parts.

  118. ossqss says:

    Well power just went out here. I guess it is a good time to do the load testing on the back up UPS (17 amp hour) units I have on my network equipment. I got several hours with many devices on it during Irma. We shall see.

  119. E.M.Smith says:

    Just an FYI:

    My presence will be light for a few hours.

    The XU4 had a “disk issue” on the uSD card that resulted in inability to see the USB disk. A reboot let it see the disk again, but reported some kernel modules were missing.

    They are on /lib that’s still on the uSD card. I’d put my space, /tmp, /usr and /var on the hard disk to avoid SD wear. The MySQL database goes in /var/lib so it ought not to have caused wear either.

    So unclear “why”; but in any case, I’m doing a system backup then rebuild from scratch. This means a 7 hour copy of a TB or so of stuff on the hard disk. (Using the PiM3 as it is pristine if slow). Theoretically I don’t need that as it passed fsck. But /tmp and /var had orphan inodes on fsck as did / (including /lib) on the uSD card. In those circumstances, my protocol is dump everything, reformat the disk (that usually causes a failing disk to finish failing or complain alot, while removing any crap scribbled on the filesystem if the fault was elsewhere. )

    Then I get to dump the uSD card data (etc configs and such) reformat it, and do a new build. Finally doing the integration of the new build and the old data.

    Yeah, I could just stuff a new copy of the modules onto the card and reboot. But then you always wonder what else….

    This ties up the lab desktop with disks spread all over and abit of a mess…

    So I’m using the tablet to get internet access…

    It is slow to type on though, so not a lot going to be posted…

  120. Larry Ledwick says:

    ossqss says:
    26 February 2019 at 8:58 pm
    FWIW, on any lead acid battery, I would suggest having, and regularly using, a desulfator to multiply the battery potential life by 2x or more.

    Yes several keys to keeping batteries alive:
    float charging them at the proper voltage for the type of battery construction
    equalization charge (to clear sulfation) periodically (again proper voltage and time is battery dependant)
    And use it or use it. If you do both of the above, on two batteries, one is periodically used and the other is not, the battery that gets periodically cycled will last longer.


    You need a minimum of 2.15 volts per cell to charge a led acid battery.
    typical float charge is about 2.35 – 2.45 V per cell

    Periodic equalization charge
    Charge for from 14-16 hours to 24 hours at regulated current of about 200mA. The battery terminal voltage is allowed to rise to between 2.50 and 2.66V/cell (15 and 16V on a 12V mono block)

  121. Larry Ledwick says:

    Oh I forgot to mention, open top flooded cell lead acid, sealed never add water styles and the glass mat AGM styles favor slightly different charging behavior. Ideal is to contact the manufacturer and ask for their recommended maintenance cycle or check their spec sheets for details of how to maintain that particular battery style. Also measure battery voltage after at least an hour of rest following charge to get a good stable voltage reading.

    Cell voltage will drop for an hour or so after being charged as the battery cools. After heavy charging such as equalization charges it can take up to 24 hours for a battery to equilibrate to actual room temperature.

    For example here is the charging guidance for the solar batteries supplied by bd battery.


    Lifeline batteries have some good battery info videos that cover the charging issues and how to maintain the batteries and some common mistakes.


  122. Another Ian says:

    Same subject as above – read first

    “Ignorance Gone Wild”


  123. Another Ian says:

    “YES – Illegal Voting is Rampant and is a Form of Intentional Voter Fraud by Democrats”


  124. Another Ian says:

    “YES – Illegal Voting is Rampant and is a Form of Intentional Voter Fraud by Democrats”


    Might be a duplicate posting

  125. Another Ian says:

    Just had 2 posting attempts not show – both re that illegal voting item at TAV

  126. Another Ian says:

    And now they both do – wtf?

  127. Larry Ledwick says:

    I have noticed recently that sometimes it takes a while for wordpress to show posts, even reloading the page several times does not show the post but if you open a new session to the page in another tab it will show the post.

    Not sure if they have a system load problem of if they are doing some sort of filtering and parsing on the posts before they display.

    Has happened to me several times in the last few days.

  128. Another Ian says:

    New session, no last comment

  129. Another Ian says:

    Now both

  130. E.M.Smith says:

    The world has gone to massive caching. So you post a comment but the cashed page in the Telco still has the old page, so when you reload the page it says “Hey, why bother going all the way to WordPress, I have that page right here, I’ll just send this copy”

    There may be several cache servers between your desktop and the WordPress server…

    Then WordPress might well have a load balancer between the input stream and the database. When times are busy, the input stream can “stack up” in the buffer of the load balancer as it waits for an available database processor. That Database processor may well have to wait a bit to apply the comment (someone else may have that record / table locked, or just the volume might be high, or they might be doing a checkpoint backup or….)

    The bottom line is that there’s so much equipment between your desktop and the WordPress servers and then back to your desktop, it ought to be more amazing that the comment ever shows up quicker than 2 to 4 minutes.

  131. E.M.Smith says:

    BTW, one of those caches can be your own Squid or similar proxy server or even your browser itself. I regularly open a browser and get a version from days ago, and must hit the ‘reload’ button to get the newer copy. So I have two levels of cache before I even hit the Telco Router on my own desktop!

    Then they almost certainly have Akamai or similar web caches just because it would be crazy not to – for a telco the opportunities to reduce bandwidth demand on their backbone when a story is hot and 20,000 folks are all downloading the same Cat Picture is just crazy big.

    It doesn’t have to be WordPress causing update lag…

  132. Larry Ledwick says:

    For the Aviation geeks and international affairs watchers, India and Pakistan are engaging in some direct combat in Kashmir – lots of fluff and disinformation from both sides at this point, but their long standing friction over Kashmir is going through its periodic escalation to armed skirmish again.


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  134. E.M.Smith says:

    Yeah, nothing like 2 regional nuclear powers with a decades long grudge going at it in a shooting war (even if slow rate)….

    Were I TPTB, I’d just make Kashmir an independent country and take it away from both of them…

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