Walmart Goes “Woke” On Guns – Time For Broke…

Well, here’s a surprise:

Walmart ends all handgun ammunition sales and asks customers not to carry guns into stores
Nathaniel Meyersohn byline

By Nathaniel Meyersohn, CNN Business

ew York (CNN Business)Walmart on Tuesday announced it will reduce its gun and ammunition sales, one month after more than 20 people were killed in a mass shooting at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas. Walmart also pressured Congress to enact gun safety measures.

The company, America’s largest retailer, said it will stop selling handgun ammunition and “short-barrel rifle ammunition,” such as the .223 caliber and 5.56 caliber, that can also be used on assault-style weapons after selling all of its current inventory. Walmart (WMT) will also stop selling handguns in Alaska, the only state where it still sells handguns. And Walmart will request that customers no longer openly carry guns into its 4,700 US stores, or its Sam’s Club stores, in states that allow open carry.

“It’s clear to us that the status quo is unacceptable,” Walmart CEO Doug McMillon said in a memo to employees on Tuesday.
However, Walmart will continue to sell long barrel deer rifles and shotguns and much of the ammunition for those guns.

Here’s Tucker on it:

Then, Bongino:

I’d stop going to Walmart except they already drove me away a few weeks ago…

So “Get Woke Go Broke” coming to a Walmart near you?…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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30 Responses to Walmart Goes “Woke” On Guns – Time For Broke…

  1. jim2 says:

    Time to write an email to my local Walmarts.

  2. H.R. says:

    The security annoyance factor hadn’t hit our Walmart, so I left them on my list. But any store that bows to the left instead of staying in the center or standing for Constitutional rights has lost me for a customer. Bye-bye, Walmart. (When will retailers learn to keep their yaps shut and just sell stuff?)

    My Walmart shopping list had been shrinking anyhow. It’s down to about 15+/- items plus scavenging their sporting goods. It was just a convenience to get those items anytime I was out of them rather than waiting for the sale week at other stores.

    Since I am on the outskirts of a major metropolitan area, I have options, and the fact is that competition is so stiff that Walmart’s prices almost always can be beat. And there is absolutely nothing Walmart sells that I can’t buy within a 5-10 minute max drive from their parking lot.

    That small list I have been buying from Walmart is just items that I don’t want to fool with at the stores that sell them high for three weeks then low for a week, which is when they bury Walmart’s prices. All I have to do is get into the sale cycle at the other stores and I will actually be doing better on price than I was at Walmart.

    Depending on how helpful I’m feeling, I may just take my cue from jim2, copy this explanation into an email, and then shoot it over to Walmart’s customer feedback center. Maybe.

  3. E.M.Smith says:

    Hmmm… quick web search for cheap ammo supplier had this pop up. $9.xx for 9mm

    And .357 Sig was about $15 to $30 depending (with some machined brass bullet versions at $45 but that’s in the exotics category).

  4. H.R. says:

    E.M., even ammo was not on my Walmart list.

    We have a local gun store chain (3 stores) that is pretty much the same as the well-known online Bud’s Gun Shop. (Bud’s is so well-known, I typed b-u-d and auto-suggest immediately popped up with Bud’s Gun Shop as the top choice. I never even got to the ‘s’.)

    The local shop has a monthly ad and a weekly ad with specials on guns and ammo that are as good or better than any prices you can find online. And better than online, you can go in and examine what you are interested in buying or just visit to look at the ‘toys’.

    I was buying my .177 ammo at Walmart because ‘it was there’, but now I have all the different types that Walmart sells, so I’ll be hitting the local shop to fill in some of the other brands of pellets that I was seeing in the videos on “The Best Gun” thread.

    Once again, bye-bye Walmart. Anything they have, including ammo, I can get elsewhere, and for less.
    I think the Regressives have made a mistake choosing ‘woke’ to make their PC minions feel superior. It’s just another term to reinforce the construct in the minds of the useful idiot sheeple that liberty-loving Constitutionalists are drooling knuckle-draggers.

    Every time I hear ‘woke’ I think it applies more to me and others like me who are fully aware of the GEB-One-World-Government-Socialist-Paradise-Road-to-Serfdom-Money-and-Power-Grab that was and is being slowly, inexorably strangling everyone in all countries… until a whole bunch of us ‘woke up’ to the GEB gambit.

    As usual with the Marxists, ‘woke’ means the opposite of what those proud sheeple think it means. They are in a brain-dead fog and are certainly not ‘woke’ to what is really going on.

  5. cdquarles says:

    Things are a bit different for me. Locally, Wal-mart is the biggest store around for miles. I’m out in the sticks between municipal corporations. There are two metropolitan areas nearby and a third a bit further away. The cores are 50 to 60 miles away. That said, the local store did once have a no weapons allowed sign on it, then removed it. A thing with them is that local store managers do have some ability to override the central office. The store near me tends to buy local and/or American whenever possible.

  6. H.R. says:

    @cd – I thought about situations like yours. In the smaller markets, Walmart did callously run the local retailers out of business.

    But here we are, and it sounds like Walmart does at least have the sense to allow managers some autonomy to make decisions that won’t cause people to go ahead and make a longer drive to shop, just because they are cheesed off at Walmart.

    That ‘No Guns’ policy at your local Walmart must have caused a noticeable drop in sales for the local manager to reverse the corporate policy.

  7. Larry Ledwick says:

    I am in about the same situation, I mostly bought from Walmart because the were convenient (24 hours) and 4.2 miles away from the apartment and more or less on my way to and from work.

    I have bought ammunition from them but they are no longer substantially cheaper than other nearby alternatives, and their choice of ammo is not what it once was.

    I mostly buy eggs, milk and bread there with a few other things, and occasionally cruise their mens clothing for T shirts socks and such.

    As I assume many do I shop there out of habit and familiarity (I know were stuff is in the store)

    Recently this store made the move to auto checkout in the evenings. I went to live tellers as long as they had them in the late evenings but now only have the option of self check out. One thing good I will say about them their self checkout kiosks are the most user friendly of any store I have used.

    But recently the cut back hours and now close for the evening at 11:00 pm so if I get delayed at all leaving work it is a hassle to get to the store before it closes now.

    Recently King Soopers built a new super store grocery market which is also 4.2 miles from the house, unfortunately a bit in the wrong direction. But tonight I will check out to see if they are open late in the evening when I get off work. If so my buy stuff on the way home store will shift from Walmart to the King Soopers super store. During the day time, I can buy groceries at the Target super store, or Whole foods if I need a full selection of foods, or Cosco which I do not shop at now but I might get a membership just to check them out.

    I am not super anal about boycotts of stores but I will intentionally avoid them for several months so I can send a message to their accountants. I predict they will see a significant Christmas season year over year same store sales drop this year.

    It does not bother me to occasionally break such a boycott when it is in my best interest at the moment but Walmart forgets they may have gotten big by dominating the market, but they do have competitors and their prices are not so spectacular that I can’t shop someplace else. In fact when you consider secondary factors like wasted time to physically shop and gasoline, there is very little I cannot buy on line and often at about the same net cost all factors considered.

    There are “Lots” of other places to buy ammo on line.

    cheaper than dirt for example :

    Or for both ammo and other stuff fire arms related

    For specialty fire arms goodies including ammo

    Not to mention the major names

    We also have a local chain (not nation wide but have several stores here in Colorado and area.

    Or you can order ammo direct from the manufactures like Hornady in Nebraska.

    Or local vendors for other suppliers

  8. cdquarles says:

    Actually, here, H.R., Wal-mart didn’t really put any local store out of business. That Wal-mart grew the local business. Sure, the mix changed; but it was changing anyway. Plus, there’s lots of competition. Just Wal-marts, there are 3 more within 30 miles. Don’t overlook local politics. Those do affect how businesses get run.

  9. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry L:

    I’m not going full on boycott either, but they ARE now “last on the list”.

    COSTCO is lower cost than Walmart, but a smaller selection and things tend to come in giant units. Ask the door person if you can just walk the store and see if you want to become a member. (Alternatively, you say “Where do I sign up?” and when they point at the Customer Relations counter, you walk that way and when they turn back to the door, walk past customer relations and swiim upstream past the checkout to look over the store. I’ve never had them refuse a “looky lou” but did the “sneak” before I thought to just ask ;-)

    For some things, they are now my “Go To #1”. I buy fish, other meats, and some vegetables especially. These I ‘break down’ into single meal sized units (plastic bags / tubs) in the freezer. Sometime chicken too (though Smart & Final is way cheaper when on special so it’s my #1)

    They also have a LOT of other stuff at really good prices. Housewares, light bulbs, soaps, etc.

    Mine has a low cost gas station and that low cost gas pays for the membership AND any driving out of the way to get there. I do a “fill up the car and big shopping” about once / month and it all starts at COSTCO. (Was Walmart 2 years ago… about a year back I swapped the order of the two) Only real downside is that things are in BIG packages (so you either store a lot of paper towels or freeze meats; or you have a bag of carrots that will spoil unless canned…)

    The local COSTCO typically runs about 30 ¢ / gallon less than the local discount brand (ARCO or Rotten Robbie) and way less than Shell / Exxon / Standard / 76 …. so it can be $5 / fillup saved. $60 / year.

    Once / week I hit the local Trader Joe’s as they have great dog food (pups thank me ;-) and crazy lower prices on wine and booze. $3.50 for the Saki others charge $7 to get. A very drinkable blended scotch at $9 / qt. IIRC. A nice single malt for something like $17. They also have a very nice vegetable section. They are also across the parking lot from Smart & Final.

    Smart & Final are NOT cheap on the smaller sizes of things. They have a perpetual “special” on chicken parts where only the part changes. About 89 ¢ / lb but in any visit it can be legs, thighs, split breast. I buy a few flats of what I like and divide into freezer tubs… They also have a Polish dog I like, a nice vegetable section, and some other things I buy. (BIG bottle of mustard as it never goes bad ;-) Ramen cups in a case lot for cheap.)

    Then down the street is a Bargain Market Grocery Outlet store. Sells what isn’t selling well elsewhere. I’ll go there for “whatever”. If it’s on my list or something I do use and can store, when they have it I buy it. Sometimes crazy low prices; but selection is whatever…

    After that, I head down the list of Target, Lucky’s, Safeway… and eventually Walmart at last.

    While that may sound like a lot of driving around, realize that the 4 regulars are “on the way” to somewhere we go every week anyway, and COSTCO pays for itself. So just start looking up addresses for places “near you” and see what works out.

    FWIW, driving across the West, I found that Smith’s Grocery (no relation ;-) and Safeway often also have loss leader gasoline prices. I fill up at a Smith’s in Kingman Arizona every time… So that survey might also be an advantage. For that, Gasbuddy is your friend:

    Looks like about $2.21 – $2.25 around Denver for the lowest…

    Looks like a lot of COSTCO stores:

    Name	Address	Phone
    Costco - Arvada	5195 Wadsworth Blvd	(303) 463-3603
    Costco - Aurora	1471 S Havana St	(303) 750-2116
    Costco - E Colorado Springs	5885 Barnes Rd	(719) 591-3002
    Costco - W Colorado Springs	5050 N Nevada Ave	(719) 264-5010
    Costco - Denver Bus Ctr	400 S Zuni St	(303) 830-4529
    Costco - Gypsum	170 Cooley Mesa Rd	(970) 328-7603
    Costco - Douglas County in Littleton	8686 Park Meadows Center Dr	(303) 708-0012
    Costco - SW Denver in Littleton	7900 W Quincy Ave	(303) 933-4931
    Costco - Parker	18414 Cottonwood Dr	(303) 583-1937
    Costco - Sheridan	4000 River Point Pkwy	(303) 200-1830
    Costco - Superior	600 Marshall Rd	(720) 587-1000
    Costco - Thornton	16375 Washington St	(303) 474-3247
    Costco - Timnath	4705 Weitzel St	(970) 416-6115
    Costco - Westminster CO	6400 W 92 Nd Ave	(303) 650-1476

    One of them must have gas ;-)

    7900 W Quincy Ave
    Littleton, CO 
    Member Icon billjrgas
    1 hour ago
    Member Icon billjrgas
    1 hour ago

    So pretty close to the absolute lowest cost per Gasbuddy as a random Denver COSTCO.

  10. Pouncer says:

    Do I correctly understand that WalMart will not support my AR-15 but will happily continue to support my AK-47?

  11. philjourdan says:

    Sam Walton is dead. Walmart is not the company that became the largest retailer any longer.

  12. Larry Ledwick says:

    It looks like the disease is spreading rapidly.
    Publix super markets join ban on open carry where legal.

  13. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well now as Paul Harvey used to say – We have the rest of the story.
    Why did walmart suddenly go from one of the goto ammo sellers to being in bed with the gun control community

    Can you say dollars?

  14. Larry Ledwick says:

    Related – Colt pulls the plug on AR-15 sales to the civilian market.

  15. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry L:

    It would be fun to strap on some mock pistol and go shopping. When accosted point out it’s not a real gun and then ask why they are so livid over nothing?

    I grew up with open carry as farm folks often had a ‘snake gun” (rattle snake country) and would come into town. The first time can be a bit of a surprise, but pretty quickly it’s nothing.

    Per the AR-15:

    Colt was being badly beaten in the civilian market by a lot of alternatives, many better. I think they are just trying to dress up losing…

    IIRC, the AR-15 is now entering Curious & Relics rules. I.e. a 50 year old design / build. Nice long run, but it IS now an antique… Just sayin’…

    Plus their price was crazy high. It was getting to the point where you could buy a custom designed CNC milling machine and an 80% receiver and if you and a buddy each made one, be at break even.

    Frankly, as it was designed for “spray and pray” “suppression fire”, I’d rather have an Enfield in .308 Nato. 10 rd box magazine and the “mad minute” of AIMED fire (though mostly in .303 British) was effective up until AFTER W.W. II and still is.

    The wiki says pre-WWI but that’s stupid. It was in use in India into the ’70s at least.

    The Mad Minute was a pre-World War I bolt-rifle speed shooting exercise used by British Army riflemen, using the Lee–Enfield service rifle. The exercise formally known as “Practice number 22, Rapid Fire, ‘The Musketry Regulations, Part I, 1909”, required the rifleman to fire 15 rounds at a “Second Class Figure” target at 300 yd (270 m). The practice was described as; “Lying. Rifle to be loaded and 4 rounds in the magazine before the target appears. Loading to be from the pouch or bandolier by 5 rounds afterwards. One minute allowed”. The practice was only one of the exercises from the annual classification shoot which was used to grade a soldier as a marksman, first-class or second-class shot, depending on the scores he had achieved. The rapid aimed fire of the ‘Mad Minute’ was accomplished by using a ‘palming’ method where the rifleman used the palm of his hand to work the bolt, and not his thumb and forefinger, while maintaining his cheek weld and line of sight.

    The “Second Class Figure Target” was 48 inches square
    (approximately 1.2 x 1.2 meters), with 24 in (61 cm) inner and 36 in (91 cm) magpie circles. The aiming mark was a 12 in × 12 in (30 cm × 30 cm) silhouette figure that represented the outline of the head of a man aiming a rifle from a trench. Points were scored by a hit anywhere on the target.

    Frankly, I’d rather have a Lee Enfield with 2 or 3 10 rd box magazines and a scope than an AR-15. But that’s just me… Anything faster than 15 (aimed!) shots / minute has you out of ammunition after the first couple of minutes, so not ideal…

  16. Larry Ledwick says:

    I agree to an extent Colt over priced their guns, selling one for $1000+ when competitors sell functional equivalents for mid $400 is not a good way to make money. They put too much value on their name brand, and did not deliver enough added value to justify the prices. As noted you could buy an upper for $250 and a stripped lower and parts kit and assemble one yourself for even less.

    They were good guns well made but “not that good”.

    I have mixed feelings on the AR-15 platform, Stoner did a good job bringing modern alloys and design to firearms design, to have a design that is still highly effective. Considering design and development was in the mid 1950’s it is a 62 year old design.

    Most of its alleged faults were due to the defense department screwing with Stoners original design.

    Early jamming issues were due to the defense department switching powder from the original IMR3031 equivalent powder it was designed for, and replacing with Winchester ball powder which burned dirtier, and had a slightly different pressure curve leading to more wear on the parts. It was silly to field it without a cleaning kit originally and no forward assist handle, in a jungle environment but the objective was sound (within the intended strategy it was designed around).

    Post WWII studies showed that the vast majority of fire fights took place at far shorter ranges than the then current M1 Garand and its predecessor Springfield bolt action rife were suited for, and the 30-06 cartridge of WWII (and the modern 7.62 NATO) round was simply far more powerful than needed and far heavier than necessary 98% of the time.

    It did have the advantage that when the bad guy took cover behind a moderate size tree you could shoot through the tree with AP (armor piercing) ball ammo and you could successfully engage at 1100 yards area targets (average GI) or point targets for the skilled marksman, but from a logistics point of view the main battle rifles of that period were just too heavy and so was the ammo.

    The 5.56 cartridge as originally designed by Stoner along with the rifle, was a high velocity low bullet weight cartridge that was marginally stabilized (low spin rate on the rifling) so that when it hit the target the bullet instantly tumbled producing very lethal wounds. The military in their efforts to “improve the design” gave the bullet better stabilization (faster twist on the rifling) for longer range accuracy and slightly lower velocity, and the result was a bullet that was stable out past 400 yards but would just make through and through puncture wounds at close range diminishing its stopping power.

    You are right that in the beginning, the military made heavy use of full auto fire on the M-16 under the volume of fire notion, but quickly learned that even with a trained marksman you had two problems. A) the high rate of fire of the design near 600 rounds per minute made very short work of a 20 round box magazine defeating the whole purpose of the GI being able to carry more ammo, and at that high rate of fire, and.
    B) it was very difficult even with the straight line recoil design to keep the muzzle down, so only the first 3-5 rounds were on target ( hence the later move to 3 round burst functionality on modern battle rifles).

    The intention of a highly lethal high velocity bullet that was light weight allowing more ammunition to be carried by the user worked on soft unshielded targets but the real battle field involves a fair amount of shooting through cover and barriers to get to the opposing shooter.

    That requires more penetrating power. than the 55 grain FMJ M193 projectile can muster. They took a step to improve penetration with the SS109 XM855 62 grain steel core design of recent military production, which improved that at a couple trade offs. It has better barrier performance but at long range the old 55 grain is still superior. The original requirement was that the projectile was able to penetrate a steel helmet at as I recall 600 yards, but this was from the 20 inch barrel of the Vietnam generation M16 and M16A2. The modern short barrel guns do not achieve the velocity needed for long range performance and the heavier 62 grain projectile has poor performance beyond about 150 yards and not really battle effective beyond about 500 yards, where the .55 grain slug due to its lighter weight and higher velocity even in a short barrel is still effective at those ranges provided it does not have to penetrate heavy over.

    They are now discussing going to the calibers they should have examined in the 1960’s. For common rifle velocity projectiles and propellants there is a sweet spot for ballistic performance in the .264 – .280 caliber range. Heavy enough to produce high ballistic coefficient bullets that retain velocity but light enough to be driven to respectable velocities with common propellants.

    The Germans used a 7mm bullet in WWII which falls in this caliber range the 7mm Mauser cal .285 in. One of the all time flattest shooting modern hunting cartridges is the .264 win mag and the 7mm Remington Magnum family which pretty much define that ideal bullet weight and caliber range.

    The AR does have some minor issues, with the modern move to short barrels, the gas port is uncovered at higher gas pressures than it is in longer barrel 1970’s era designs and tends to be harder on the gun parts, but even though that is true, the guns of the Original Stoner gas impingement design are more reliable that the more expensive modern gas piston designs which tend to not live as long in continuous use. Original design gas impingement designs with the longer barrel and proper propellant (ie IMR3031 class) will not start breaking parts until they get near 10,000 rounds fired and the barrel is starting to go away due to wear and gas abrasion in the throat.

    As a high power shooter with the M-14 at first I ridiculed the AR-15 as being too light and not a “real rifle” but over time when factoring in the real needs of a typical military shooter, the AR-15/M-16 is not a bad rifle for what it is designed to do (ie be a light reliable weapon effective to beyond normal engagement ranges). Same goes for the modern civilian AR-15, most uses by most shooters are completely satisfied by the standard Stoner direct impingement design and plain jane 55 grain ammo.

    The M-14 main battle rifle still has its place, they pulled them back into service in Afghanistan because the opponent out ranged our M-4 5.56 rifles with their classic large caliber bolt action rifles. In that area of operations, you needed at least a couple firearms in the unit that could effectively engage the opponent out past 1000 yards (or at least keep his head down). Shooting across a mountain valley required a round better suited to very long range than the 5.56.

  17. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry L:

    Dad had a .257 Roberts bolt hunting rifle… in line with your point. Sadly, when he died my Mum gave it away… That’s 6.5 mm.

    Though, really, Dad said he thought it kicked too much anyway, so maybe for the better ;-)

    We had the .30 Cal M1 Carbine as a shorter range lighter round. The idea wasn’t all that new. Just improved a bit with smaller caliber and faster velocity. I always liked the .30 M1 Carbine… (7.62 mm per the calculator).

    IMHO things in the 6 to 7 mm range are just about ideal as a compromise between light weight and range / penetration.

    I wonder if there are any “wildcat” cartridges based on the 223 but in .25 “ish” size…

    After a brief duckduckgo search…. Looks like wildcatters did it for a while now it is a standard round:

    $1400 to $1800 in an AR package:

    Implies with case and 5 boxes of ammunition

    Sharps 25-45 Sharps “Field Master” Rifle Package

    $1,399.99 – $1,799.98
    Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 14 customer ratings

    This rifle includes a 416R stainless Steel Sharps Precision Barrel featuring polygonal 1 in 10” twist rifling, M4 feed ramps and 5/8”-24 muzzle threads. Additional features include 25-45 Sharps laser engraved ejector port door cover, our patent pending Relia-Bolt and XPB Balanced Bolt Carrier assembly and CMC 3.5 lb trigger group.

    So there you go.

  18. E.M.Smith says:

    Interesting…. from their page on the cartridge:

    25-45 Sharps 70 Grain BlitzKing Cartridge (20 Cartridges)

    The 25-45 SHARPS packs a lot more punch with a little more kick <10%.
    Flies flat as a varmint round and hits hard like a brush cartridge.

    Transform your MSR with SRC 25-45 SHARPS rifle cartridges.
    The 25-45 SHARPS is 100% compatible with all .223/5.56 magazines, buffers, bolts and other components; a simple barrel change is all that is needed.
    Makes any MSR legal for big game hunting in all states where centerfire rifle hunting is permitted.

    So those places that make it illegal to use a .223 for “big game” can be placated with a bbl swap….

    They have a variety of “conversion kits” but don’t say exactly “for what”. One is left to assume any AR-15 pattern gun? $350 basic up to over $1000… more dodads and stuff…

    Basic Conversion Kit

    $385.99 $349.99
    Rated 4.94 out of 5 based on 47 customer ratings

    The 25-45 Sharps Basic Conversion Kit includes:

    Sharps Precision Barrel of your choice
    Engraved Dust Cover
    2 Boxes of 87gr HotCore Cartridges
    Patent Pending XPB Bolt
    Magazine of your choice

    Choice of bbl lengths and 10, 20, or 30 rd magazine.

    IF I had an AR-15 pattern gun, I think I’d order that…

  19. Larry Ledwick says:

    There has been a move in military circles for some time to upgrade the caliber of current weapon systems.

    Right now they are looking at something in 6.8 mm caliber (.268 caliber)

  20. Larry Ledwick says:

    More on the above

    Point is that for intended engagement ranges under 300 meters and no likelihood of needing to shoot through obstructions / barriers, the current 5.56 caliber is just fine for basic.

    This is why a lot of folks are tinkering with the 6.5 creedmore in the AR platforms

  21. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh jeeze… not a round number in anyone’s system… Are they TRYING to make it a PITA to manufacture for everybody?

    Round it up to 7 mm or down to .25 caliber, either one, would be better. LOTS of already existing tooling for bullets and barrels and all. Or keep it 6.5 mm / .257 and you still have some tooling in existence. But nooo…

  22. E.M.Smith says:

    The Creedmore is a 6.5 mm / .256 (functionally the same as the .257 Roberts) and makes a lot more sense. Hopefully the 6.8 mm / ..268 is just silliness…

  23. E.M.Smith says:

    Hmmm…. that reference to “telescoped rounds” was interesting:

    Looks like they are talking about a plastic case with the bullet inside it (rather like a slug in a shotgun shell).

    I guess that’s sort of an improvement…

  24. E.M.Smith says:

    Continuing to explore this particular rabbit hole…. looks like some other military are using a similar AR sized 6.5 mm round:

    The 6.5mm Grendel (6.5×39mm) is an intermediate cartridge designed by Arne Brennan, Bill Alexander and Janne Pohjoispää as a low-recoil, high-accuracy cartridge specifically for the AR-15 platform at medium/long range (200–800 yard). It is an improved variation of the 6.5mm PPC. Since its introduction, it has proven to be a versatile design and is now expanding out into other firearms including bolt-action rifles and the Kalashnikov system.
    Army and police uses
    Serbia is in process of adopting a rifle made by Zastava Arms in 6.5 mm Grendel caliber as main armament for its armed forces. An American-manufactured rifle in 6.5mm Grendel caliber may also be adopted in armament for special forces units after it passes testing in Technical Testing Center. Three types of 6.5mm Grendel ammunition produced by Prvi Partizan Uzice Serbia will be tested for use with these rifles.

  25. Larry Ledwick says:

    A bit more background on the 6.5 creedmore cartridge.

    Minor note on the 30-06 near the end of service life, just before the M-14 came out the Army used the M1 Garand chambered in 30-06 but the US Navy used the 7.62 NATO chamber for the same rifle.

  26. E.M.Smith says:

    And here I’d been thinking of getting an AR Pattern gun after getting to Florida… just in time for it to be a C&R and abandoned by the Army ;-)

    I never was that fond of the .223 Rem. / 5.56 NATO. There’s two different almost but not quite compatible specs. It’s too small a caliber for some uses, and isn’t “flexible” enough for broad use. (Think big bears in camp… or Elk at 200 yards…) IF you place the shot just right, maybe, but it isn’t easy to be “just right” that far out. (At least not for me. I did do the DCM qualification 100 yard shoot with open iron sites on a .357 Marlin … so maybe I’d have a chance…)

    I’d really rather have something .25 to .30 and only one chamber spec…

    I’m not worried about the .223 suddenly disappearing. We’re still using the 30-’06 a hundred years+ after adoption and about 1/2 century after the move to .308 NATO. So we’ll likely have .223 still kicking around in 2075…

    Frankly, that’s why I went with the SKS. It meets California “Pretty gun” requirements (wood stock, 10 rd fixed magazine, no pistol grip,…) and it is in a .30 caliber. I’d intended to put a scope on it for easier use as a “deer rifle”, but then the Marlin got in font of it ;-) I’m actually quite pleased with it and satisfied with the rounds.

    But I keep on thinking something USA / NATO compatible would be better ;-) I’d originally planned to get that Lee-Enfiled from India in .308 NATO but was short of money at the time. Then they stopped making it… (Another 10 rd California Pretty gun ;-)

    Now I’m thinking once I’ve again become free and escaped to Florida I would have more freedome to choose… Just in time for the USA to dump it, it seems…

  27. Larry Ledwick says:

    Another example of a cartridge that does not go away is the .270 which many people consider just about the ideal smaller big game cartridge (ie white tail deer etc.) a little bit marginal for large and dangerous game (bear, elk, moose and big mountain lions) but a adequate big game cartridge for most everything likely to be hunted to put meat on the table or for potting larger predators.

    I don’t have is a 30-06 as the 7.62 just does about everything it can do and brass and powder is a bit cheaper. Also for the few cases where the 7.62 is not enough gun I have other more powerful options to choose from so not an issue to cover that base.

    For close in dangerous game, hard to beat 00 buck or a 12ga slug anyway.

  28. Larry Ledwick says:

    Again the physics keeps coming back to the same small set of choices.

  29. Larry Ledwick says:

    Hmmm seems my comment above at ( 19 September 2019 at 2:31 am ) was based on incomplete information – as in the media intentionally misrepresented the situation – what a surprise.

    Looks like if this is in fact the correct version just a logistical decision to focus on other production because they have plenty of civilian AR-15 production in the warehouse.

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