For those unfamiliar with it, Demolition Ranch is a channel that indulges in some degree of legal hyperbole (so it will say a gun is illegal due to features even after ATF has said it is legal. Not lying so much as pointing out the silly in some laws. Like a .22 Magnum pistol that shoots 2 bbl at once, so two shots with one pull of the trigger. It’s a revolver, so you get all of 4 trigger pulls. Yes, the law says a machine gun is any gun that sends more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger, but the ATF correctly said, um it’s a revolver…) He also likes to shoot up a lot of junk and generally act a bit over the top excited. I’m pretty sure it’s an act for ratings… Oh, and he also tends to put a mediocre pun at the start… I warned ya ;-)

In any case, here he shoots a .50 Cal air gun. (All while saying it’s like a firearm, but not… Um, no. It has no fire…) The good thing is you get to see how well it does on water jugs (through 2 gallons) and a watermellon (busts it up) as well as how the arrows do (very accurate and certainly enough to take down a critter – but through a stiff target you can lose the base of the arrow).

The bottom line is that, as long as you get a pump that will fill it during an Aw Shit, it looks like a very nice “game getter” solution for the Prepper. Not going to hold off the Zombie Apocalypse, but frankly you ought not be trying to do that anyway…

It is a bit louder than I’d like, OTOH, I can probably shoot it ‘ear plugs only’ and be OK.

Do I really have any need for one of these, at all? Nope.
Will I ever go out hunting critters for dinner? Almost certainly nope.

What would I do with it, really? It would be a neat toy for pretending to deal with the EOTWAWKI. It would also be something I could own, and shoot, without nearly the PITA involved in using a real firearm. So were I to get a few acres of “fishing hole” land in Florida, I could have a little personal gun range and shoot “stuff” with this without nearly the fuss involved in “Real Guns”. Hitting tin cans with a “BB Gun” isn’t nearly as much fun as a .50 Cal ;-)

Will I get one? Maybe someday. Not any time soon though. I have too much other stuff to get done first. I also need to do a bit more learning about air gun brands, calibers, etc. etc. In another video two guys in Texas pretending to be on a 30 day survival in the wilderness (really a set story line for their video with a ‘reality show’ degree of actuality… where they’ve set the rules for themselves and can ‘really’ quit any time) have one delivered (as they picked up the sponsor mid show…) via Drone. Yup, nothing like being in the primitive survival camp, eating Raccoon Bacon and having your “sponsor” deliver an air rifle via drone, complete with digital recording night scope…

But they did have to pump it up with the 4500 PSI “bike” pump and it worked.

So as an EOTWAWKI last ditch gun after your ammo is gone and society has not yet recovered, yeah, it would be a nice thing to have. In reality, a big jug of efficient powder, big box of primers, bullet mold, and Lee Loader would likely work better and last as long as the air pump and air gun seals & such…

Frankly, I’d rather have a cap & ball revolver and rifle and a gallon of black powder… but I don’t have them, either ;-0

BUT, for making a mess with full cans of cheap soda at 50 feet? Oh, this is a good choice ;-)

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
This entry was posted in Emergency Preparation and Risks and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.

33 Responses to I WANT One!

  1. agesilaus says:

    I believe that back in the 1800s? the Austrian army carried an air rifle. Yeah here it is: Girandoni air rifle from 1780-1815. So I guess Napoleon put an end to that.

  2. Ossqss says:

    After a week of testing with just the iron and Fibre optic site, I would put more stock in something cheap like this. I didn’t report back as I’m changing out my scope to a see under scope for the sites to be used in addition to the scope for close encounters, but this thing shoots great and I get 60 shots with the spare Clips before the cartridge is toast. It just works and the neighbors who have shot it, are buying one.


  3. Ossqss says:

    BTW, the Destroyer pellets are lighter at 7.4g vs. 7.9g with hollow points. They shoot differently, but the rifle itself is small and very light. I like it, but would still take my 10-22 tactical takedown over it outside of my yard for SHTF mode. Just sayin, applications matter. Just ask the squirrels ;-)

  4. Larry Ledwick says:

    Yes there is a lot to be said for the cheap basic pellet guns especially for varmint control at close ranges.

    The only down side to the CO2 versions is if you puncture the CO2 cartridge and take a few shots then put it in the closet for a month or two there is a good chance the pressure will bleed off unless you have a very good seal on the cartridge.

    The un-pierced cartridges basically keep for ever in my experience (never had one flat when I tried to use it), but a little care seating the cartridge and making sure it is fully sealed would go a long way.

    For the short term after some event like an earthquake should not be a problem. I have a CO2 powered air soft (which by the way hits hard enough it could be used against critters at across the room ranges) and it will hold pressure for at least a couple weeks once a new cartridge is pierced.

  5. Larry Ledwick says:

    I think we need to name this “Trump Camo”

  6. H.R. says:

    @Ossqss – I’m getting my best groups with that Destroyer pellet. I found bucket of Plumber’s Putty a few days ago so I’m going to do some penetration tests pretty soon.

    I found a tin of 400-500 pellets laying around that had a clear lid where the info was on a round card that fit in the lid… and the info is gone. I have to refer to them as ‘No Name’. Anyhow, they are similar to the Destroyer but the tip is more rounded and the edge forming the hollow point is rolled over slightly into the middle. Those shoot well, too.

    The 10.4 gr. Piranha hollow points load a bit tight in the head and the skirt and aren’t quite as accurate. I think that’s because slivers here and there are shaved off and affect the aerodynamics.

    So how are those pesky birds? Have they learned to keep their distance from your pool screening? Wouldn’t it have been easier just to put a wind turbine in your backyard to wipe them out? ;o)
    @E.M. re big bore air gun: “I want one” too. I’m not going out and buying one, either. I will be keeping my eye for one on a clearance ‘This Must Go’ price, though.
    @ Larry L: Melania… best First Lady EVAH! I told my wife I’d ditch her for Melania and she said, “Sure, honey, If you can woo her away from Donald, go right ahead on.” *sigh* Slim odds of that, eh? ;o)

  7. E.M.Smith says:

    This guy has several visits to airgun trade shows on YouTube. It is amazing too me how many different makers in how many different kinds.


    One of them from about 7? months ago, had Sig Sauer showing off their models that match their military pistols and rifles so that you can practice with the same controls without a minor fortune of ammo cost. I’m really really interested in getting one since a few boxes of Sig .357 pay for it… Just sayin’…


    The have a compact version at $100 and a “competition” version at $130 all in stock on line, but the one most like mine (also $130 and in some strange brown plastic) is sold out…


    MODEL M17
    CALIBER .177 cal
    MUZZLE VELOCITY Up To 430 fps
    SIGHTS Fixed
    MAGS INCLUDED (1) 20rd Pellet Mag
    WEIGHT (OZ) 2.15 lb


    Modeled after the U.S. Army P320-M17, the M17 Air Pistol is the perfect way to get your hands on a P320-M17 to practice with.


    – Full blowback metal slide
    – Drop magazine w/ cam lever CO2 loading
    – Field strips like the U.S. Army M17 pistol
    – Replica of the U.S. Army M17 Pistol
    – (1) 20 Round .177 caliber rapid pellet magazine included

    Note the slide does blowback and the magazine drop / replace is like the “real gun”.

    Not exactly like mine as it is the mil version knockoff, but close enough for practice. I especially like how the magazine carries the CO2 bottle and the pellets. It has some kind of check valve in it so you can drop it, change the ribbon of pellets and put it back in without loss of CO2. Low power enough for indoor practice but not in the league of high power outdoors real game getters. OTOH, were I to try to remember where my Sig controls are right now, um, no. I shoot my cheap 9mm A LOT More. The Sig, maybe it was 4 years ago… I like the .357 Sig rounds, but not so easy to find and pricey…

    They also showed a Ruger 10/22 air rifle. Yup. Same look and form factor. Hard to think of something more ubiquitous that the Ruger 10/22, and now you can get one that’s shooting pellets. There were others, including one from Winchester. It looks like folks have realized that training with the same look and feel matters and not everyone wants to drive 120 miles to a range and spend $200 on ammo every few months just to regain familiarity.


    Ruger have others too… but this is the one I like:

    Ruger® 10/22® Air Rifle

    The Ruger® 10/22® .177 Air Rifle is an authentic, licensed replica of the famous Ruger® 10/22® as a pellet firing air rifle. It utilizes a removable 10-round magazine containing .177 caliber pellets powered by (2) 12g CO2 capsules (sold separately) concealed in the stock to 650 FPS with lead pellets. The realistic bolt action, adjustable rear sights (elevation only) and black, all-weather synthetic stock make this a faithful representation of the iconic 10/22®. This air rifle will also accept after market scope bases. The 10/22® Air Rifle not only looks like the Ruger® 10/22®, it gives the air gun enthusiast the complete 10/22® experience with the quietness and convenience of CO2 power. Manufactured under license from Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.
    Model Description
    17820 Ruger® 10/22® .177 Air Rifle Buy Now
    Manufactured by UMAREX under license from Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.

    Actually made by an airgun company, but it looks right. Again, the 650 fps is about 1/2 of the ones that don’t try to cycle a bolt and all, so not for the hard core critter getter… but for same look and feel practice, nice.

    I clicked on the buy it now and got a $130 price.

    One of the trade show videos had an interview with (some company…) that is making a .22 rifle that shoots regular .22 bullets (no, not cartridges, no gunpowder, only the lead bullet part) at the same energies as a .22 firearm by using a “custom light gas mixture” (patent pending…). So I’d guess it will come with very expensive He bottles ;-) Or maybe a sub-flammable H2-He mix.

    It looks like the UK limits airguns to under 12 ft-lbs energy, but in the USA anything goes.

    It also sunk into my pea brain that the larger the caliber, the more volume of air expands into the barrel, so the fewer shots you get on one tank fill… While the .50 Cal in the video is way cool and shooting arrows looks like fun, you re-fill a lot. Hand pumping that is a slow tiring process (from another of his videos) but there’s a mobile air compressor (about $650) sized about like two lunch boxes that runs on wall power or clips to a car battery.

    So “note to self”: IF you expect to use a PCP gun add $700 for the air compressor and other bits. If you expect to use a CO2 cartridge or hand pump, that .22 or .25 caliber has some advantages in the pumping department. If you can’t decide, the .30 caliber splits the difference.

    It does look like the market bifurcates into a “Global low power” and toys group at 12 Ft-Lbs and under; and a US High Power hunting guns group at “deer sized animal” power ranges.

    Oh, and there’s all sort of stuff in the quasi-unlimited rules environment. Lots of weird stocks, bullpups, “moderators” (or silencers or “shrouds”) built in / on, and much much more.

    The bad news is it will take a coupe of years to sort it all out and get a full understanding. The good news is now I have an excuse not to drop $800 for 2 years ;-)

    So my one big takeaway from tonight was that at nearly equal ft-lbs (joules) the .177 will give you more shots than the .22 and higher velocity / flatter shooting. So once you know the desired energy on target, it is an advantage to get the smallest caliber that delivers it. Practicing a “same layout gun” in the basement with a pellet trap, .177 at 500 fps is fine. Potting rats in the garden, a .177 at 1200 fps is better. ONLY if you need to drop something big do you want a big pellet. Otherwise you WILL be pumping A LOT or using A LOT of CO2 cartridges.

    So, OK… As much as I have lust for the .50 Cal…. I think the more prudent thing is to look at .177 to .22 higher velocity (and more common and more affordable and…) first.

  8. Larry Ledwick says:

    I have a CO2 powered air soft replica of a Colt 1911, metal frame so weight is the same, same controls and the slide functions (by the way when the slide does not function, but the pistol still shoots time to replace the CO2 cartridge it is nearly empty)

    Great practice for basic form and handling drills.

  9. A C Osborn says:

    E M, The stories go that the Austrian Air Rifle, which had a ball reservoir was outlawed because there was no “smoke” to give a way the shooters position. So they classed anyone shooting it as a “Sniper” and if found were promptly strung up.

    I am in the UK and for many years Air Rifles have been limited to 12ft-lbs although you can have any power you like if you have a Firearms Certificate.
    Air Pistols are limited to 6ft-lbs.
    I have owned or shot when my Brother owned them many US made Air Rifles and pistols including
    A Crossman 140 Pump Up Rifle
    A Crossman 1400 Pump Up Rifle
    A Crossman Model 760 Powermaster
    One Crossman 130 & one 137 (22/177) Pump Up Pistols
    A Daisy Powerline single pump rifle.
    A Highscore 800, 7 shot rotorary Mag 22 Air pistol.
    A Sheridan Blue streak 0.20 calibre Pump up Rifle, bought when I was an Apprentice in the 60s and one of my all time favourites. Because ammo was a bit difficult to get and much more expensive than .22 and .177 I bought a ball mould which saved me a fortune when “tin can” shooting because I could re-use the lead from my brother’s and my .22s and .177s.
    I also made a solid slug twin ringed Pellet mould to take advantage of the Sheridan’s power, the drop over distance was pretty big though.
    I have also owned some UK made rifles including
    2 British Theoben Gas Ram rifles, the first one was the 11th Production model made, the second was number 119, for which I was able to visit Theoben in Cambridge and select both the Action and the Walnut Stock. Both had beautifully figured walnut stocks.
    A British Sterling 83 .22 Rifle.
    A Webley Vulcan .22 Rifle.
    I also had a British hand made “take down Rifle” in a box, but can’t remember it’s maker’s name and sold it to a collector.
    A Japanese Sharp Innova pump up Rifle (my brother had 2).
    My last 2 rifles were an Air Arms S400 pre-charged Pneumatic, pump and bottle charged and a BSA SuperStar Underlever with a drop down Breach.
    My last Pistol was a Gamo Competition .177 Match Air Pistol which I used to Teach Scouts to shoot as a Range Officer/Instructor, our group won the UK Scout Major Championship Shield 3 years out of 4. They used Gamo CF30 underlever rifles with pop up loading ports, although cheap they were capable of shooting in the upper 90s at 6 Yards with UK NSRA 6 yard targets. They eventually graduated to Air Arms pre charged S200 target rifles.
    I shot Various German Original 10s, 45s and 50s, a Webley Mk2 Service and Mk 3 and an Osprey owned by my brother.
    I bought my son an Air Arms Carmargue .22 Side Lever Rifle for his 13th birthday and on the chrono it was the most consistent Spring Air Rifle I have ever seen, 610 fps +/- 1 fps over 20 shots.

    55 years of Air Rifle & Pistol shooting and loved every minute of it.

    ps I have also had the pleasure of shooting .22 Cartridge rifles and pistols, including various semi autos, plus .38, .45, 357m and 9mm revolvers and semi autos at a couple of rifle clubs, but have never owned a “real gun” of my own.
    Trying to shoot a .22 10 metre match card while the guy next to you unloads a full clip of 9mm as fast as he can and then a 911 Colt .45 is not condusive to getting a decent score.

    Sorry for being so long winded, but once I started reminiscing it just all came back, with a warm feeling

  10. E.M.Smith says:

    @A C Osborn:

    Don’t apologize for completeness! I love it. I really like soaking up “experience by proxy”.

    Last time I was involved with pellet rifles was about 50 years ago. A friend had some rifle that took “10 pumps” with the forearm / leaver to be at full power. CO2 was a very new thing and nobody I knew had one. I had a .177 BB Gun (of a decent sort but just in the Sears Catalog class, not anything unusual).

    In about 1975 I got a Benjamin? air pistol. Also pump-up. IIRC it’s a .22 caliber. I still ave it in a box somewhere but the (some cast metal) trigger broke off in the middle. Maybe it’s worth fixing but I doubt anyone has parts and $200 of gunsmith work to make a trigger for a $50 gun seems unreasonable… (Maybe I could make one… ) It hasn’t worked in about 25 years…

    So I’m woefully out of date and out of touch with the current crop of things and what they can do.

    It is nice to know you CAN get big air guns in Britain. It does bother the organized part of my mind when people class guns as “firearms” that involve no fire, though…. You would think they would be tidy enough to just call them “guns” or “projectile arms” or something… Oh Well, people generally love to abuse the tool of language.

    So from what I think I’ve learned so far, and please correct where I’ve got it wrong:

    1) Spring driven guns are OK but not great. Nice low cost and probably more than enough for me to plink in the yard at cans or annoy the random rat.

    2) CO2 powered guns are more powerful, until the cartridge runs out, and more convenient. However you are tied to the CO2 canning industry forever and have to pay for that privilege. But for quick and easy in action, it’s great.

    3) Pump up air guns can be quite good and work as long as you have seals kits. You also get lots of pauses for exercise and great arm conditioning… Don’t expect fast repeat shots.

    4) PCP Pre-Charged Pneumatic guns have LOTS of power and LOTS of repeat shots. Best of the best. You will either spend an hour or two with a “bike pump” filing the big tank, or drop $500+ on a compressor or become good friends with the local SCUBA shop. Guns start about $400 with good stuff at $700 and what you really want at $1000+

    5) Larger bore means a lot more time pumping. It also means larger critters are targets. If not shooting critters, there’s no real point to larger. If shooting critters, look at critter size and distance and choose bore / velocity accordingly.

    Hopefully that’s a reasonable summary.

    What I’m still working out:

    1) Who are the makers, what are their reputations.

    2) What’s the “sweet spot” of a good brand / caliber / model for some guy without $400 to spend.

    3) Where’s the best place to get one, or any seasonality for buying.

    4) Is any given country the best maker of origin? (Korea seems to like nice wood stock things that look like a “Real Gun” while Texas brand likes things that look like plumbing from space…)

    5) Just what velocity / caliber pairs really are what I want. (i.e. is 850 fps .177 reasonable, or do I really want to hold out for .30 1200 fps?) Numbers seem somewhat all over the board (cheaper being much slower) and I’ve no experience base to choose.

    6) Which “moderators” are actually good, and one what guns? I’ve seen some that look good in pictures but the “sound” number on the catalog page is a 4 or 5 for loud. What’s with that?

    So if you have any advice, feel free…

    FWIW I’m settling in on the idea of a .22 caliber with about 1000 +/- 100 fps and either of single shot or magazine, with “moderator” that actually works, and preferably one that isn’t a plumbers nightmare… ( I like wood…). CO2 or pump most likely (though I could be convinced to go with spring or PCP if someone who knows said so…).

    I’m a little more prejudiced against “break barrel” than a pump forearm or lever just due to not fond of the idea of skin oils on barrels… but maybe that’s silly.

    My interests are:

    1) Mostly being able to shoot paper and the occasional soda can in the back yard without a SWAT team visit…

    2) Maybe doing rodent control when I get more dirt and a larger garden slightly more remote.

    3) Maybe someday in a SHTF world having something that could pot a squirrel without telling the whole neighborhood “Dinner At His House!”.

    What I’m not going to do: Ever go hunting for deer, pigs, or bears (Oh My!). IF it ever came to that, I’ve got a perfectly fine lever action real rifle with scope and far better terminal ballistics. A box of 50 shells covers any potential future such shots for the rest of my life.

    So there you have it. MY long reply ;-) All advice and opinions welcome…

  11. A C Osborn says:

    E M I am not sure what is available in the USA, the UK air gun manufacturers have a lot of experience with PCPs and they are the best bet for us.
    Most Airgun moderators work fairly well and are necessary on PCPs and powerful pump ups, they also tend to improve the balance of most rifle.
    A really good scope of variable power is also very useful, I mostly used 4-12 x 40 scopes but you need a very good stance or a rest to hold steady at 12x.
    Rats, Squirrels, most birds & Rabbits are no problem at 25yds even at 12ft-lbs and OK up to 50Yds with double that. For Rabbits head shots are best.
    If you want to primarily shoot targets then a .177 would be better as you can get Match quality pellets (really good ones come with premium prices) which are very flat headed wad cutters and leave real good clean holes. But .177s can still be used for tin cans and the small animals as well. But their stopping power is not so good as they tend to do a through & through at closer ranges.
    Animal ranges are strictly controlled by how good the combination is is Human/Gun/Sights/Pellets as you have to hit them to kill them, rather just wound them.
    There is no problem with spring powered weapons like my son’s Carmargue, which was right on 12ft-lbs and as consistent and accurate as hell. His was a Side Lever, but you can also get Under Levers as well. They both have the advantage of being fixed barrles like PCPs.

    I would suggest that if you can you can get along to a good gun shop that will allow you to actually try them out as the feel of the gun and the way that it comes up etc make a big difference to your shooting pleasure and accuracy.

    Your suggestion of a .22 at 1000 fps would be damned good, but for fun I would probably buy a cheapish .177 for close range plinking and if you are in to pistols that El Gamo Match Pistol of mine is great for Target Training and is cheap compared to the top rated guns.

    Unless you are in to pest control all it is all about the fun factor, so enjoy.

    Many times I have wished that I had hadn’t given my last 2 rifles away to for charity, but shooting in the UK has become very tricky and one phone call gets a fully armed SWAT squad surrounding you, but I still really miss it.

  12. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry L:

    I’m almost certain to get the Sig practice pistol for the same reason. I could practicecmy Sig familiarity without chucking a $ to $2 down range with each shot…. 50 to 100 shots pays for the gun…

    @AC Osborn: Near as I can tell, we can get anything in the USA.

    I’m most likely to get a .22 just so that pest control is most humane (should any happen) and so I can see the holes in the paper :-) If I get my old Benjamin repaired, then the caliber matches too. And I still have tins of pellets and darts for it.

    Anything bigger will be for later (more money, devotion, and fuss to find pellets) as I don’t do sport hunting and a brick of .22 LR really covers any hypothetical AwShit small game needs. So while I want a .30 to .50 as an amusement, can’t really see a need in that beyond the potential for a quiet shooter.

    The .177 may be better for really good target shooters, but I’m more in the “did I hit the can?” class ;-)

    So it looks like a PCP in .30 to .50 is a “someday thing” after I prove I’m really interested long term. The Sig pustol is “soon” as it has a direct utility and payoff and would work well in the back yard…

    Then the remaining bit is just to pick a reasonably high energy pump up or spring .22 rifle. So narrowing the search space a little.

    I think maybe it is time to look over the shelves at Bass Pro Shops :-) I learn a lot from the physical inspection process.

  13. Steven Fraser says:

    @Larry L: Accessorize, baby!

    @EM: On a more serious note, I wonder if there would be a use for a belt-fed 12-gauge Gatling gun, with, say, every 3rd round a tracer slug, if you know what I mean. I know a guy in Houston who acquired a Russian semi-auto 12 gauge. It tore up the target pretty well.

  14. Larry Ledwick says:

    One final note here on the use of Airguns / airsoft for “in the yard” pest control tasks and general handling practice.

    I picked up an electric M4 clone airsoft rifle the other day, shoots the 0.12 gram airsoft 6mm plastic pellets.

    When I ordered mine it was on sale for $110

    (by the way this one came with a catalog from Pyramid air)

    Easily shoots 1 ” groups at 25 ft (down the hall way) and at that range will shoot through both sides of a new corrugated cardboard box. For an indoor pellet trap, for airsoft you need to put something tough inside the box, to prevent this. I have a piece of Plastic floor runner hanging in the box and it works great to catch the pellets so they all drop into the bottom of the box.

    Weight of this airsoft rifle is about 6.5 pounds so almost the exact same weight as the real thing with an empty magazine. Ergonomics are identical to the AR family so for general functional familiarity and practice using unusual shooting positions like left handed around an obstacle it functions perfectly as a suitable training device for familiarity and basic function.

    Has a couple minor quirks (the instructions are multilingual barely intelligible format).

    It is probably lethal to small critter pests like mice at close range given the penetration of both sides of the box. I need to try a penetration test on a small apple or some other micro game stimulant to see what it does on 3 dimensional object.

    Has zero recoil so a good introduction training device for a non-shooter.

    Fun toy to play with, I use my airsoft pistols in the same way to maintain basic muscle memory and familiarity indoors at home – – much much cheaper than burning up good ammo.

    caution you will end up picking up quite a few stray pellets – they have a knack for escaping your intended target and occasionally bouncing around. wear eye protection they will occasionally come right back to you, if you shoot a hard target like a tin can (which makes a great gong to let you know if you are on target)

    The gun will pay for itself in ammunition costs in one use, compared to going to an indoor range firing live ammunition, if you don’t mind the minor quirks.

    Being electric it takes up to 4 hours to charge the batteries (max 10 hours) so buy a spare battery set if you plan on using it much. The charger is a plug in wall wart type transformer so in troubled times it could be easily charged with a small solar panel and low power inverter.

    I think I am going to build a permanent pellet trap for airsoft that looks like a large medicine cabinet, open the doors to form deflector panels and when closed looks like a common cabinet.

    Maybe even convert one of these dart board cabinets for the task.


  15. E.M.Smith says:

    @Steven Fraser:

    Interesting idea… and not that hard to make. The basic Gatling Gun mechanism is 1800s tech, shotgun shells work in plain iron pipes (but proper barrels are better…) and it is NOT a “Machine Gun” by law.

    Though, thinking about it, I’d bet you could make a “hopper” that automatically oriented the shells properly so you could just dump buckets of them in the top ;-)

    Wonder what the PPM (Pellets Per Minute :-) would be…

    Assuming 9 to 12, call it 10, buck balls per round, and a 300 rounds per minute (or 5 per second.. I think I could handle cranking one turn per second…) that would be 3000 PPM, not bad at all…. Though a bit pricey to feed it ;-)

    @Larry L:

    Fun Toy!

    I’ve been seriously remiss in my shooting practice the last decade. Between shuttling coast to coast on contracts and doing blog stuff and all, just no time to go to the range. Plus, Kalifornia has done their damnedest to make a trip to the range an exercise is “How to avoid being arrested for practicing my constitutional rights?”.

    So, for example, a magazine, not anywhere NEAR any actual gun, touching AT ALL a cartridge (i.e. not IN the magazine) is by law, in Kalifornia, a “Loaded Gun”. So put an EMPTY magazine in a shooting kit box with any ammo, even if all the guns are separately locked and in the trunk of the car and you can be busted for having a “Loaded Gun” in possession in the car…

    Oh, and the Kid moved away so my shooting partner isn’t around anymore either…

    I gotta fix this somehow…

    I’m presently trying to decide between Air Gun or Black Powder ;-)

    I need something new to get the juices flowing again ;-)

    Come to think of it, the kid left his Airsoft .45 Colt when he moved away. It’s in a box… over there I think… Hmmm….. I think a “digging in boxes” expedition is in order ;-)

  16. Larry Ledwick says:

    A black powder Navy cap and ball revolver would be a nice thing to have. I have pondered buying one but never got around to it. I have a black powder long gun so, scratching that itch is not all that urgent.

    Cabelas has some nice clones of the cap and ball revolvers for a nice price. This is probably the one I would go for if I were to pick one up.

    Pietta Model 1858 New Army .44-Caliber Black Powder Revolver

    At that price it is about 1/2 the price or less of the modern center fire pistols and just as effective.

  17. Larry Ledwick says:

    A two cavity mold is only $22


  18. Larry Ledwick says:

    For a few dollars more you can pickup a conversion cylinder to convert the above to modern center file .45 LC ammo.


  19. E.M.Smith says:

    I was about to launch into the usual statement that I know the .44 / .45 is superior in Black Powder as velocity is limited so mass has to be the ticket… but that I want to get a .36 as I am standardizing on 9mm / .357 and have the mould already and then… you go and point at that .45 LC cylinder…


    Now I want one of them…

  20. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh Goody! They make them in .36 as well:


    Though really, at that point you are about $500-$600 into it just to get a revolver that shoots .38 specials and I already have 2 of them….

    Maybe I need to re-think this a little.

    Now if they had cylinders for both .45 LC AND .45 ACP… (He goes off to search more and plot what could explain to the spouse a sudden drop of $1000 in the savings .. ;-)

  21. Larry Ledwick says:

    The same .45 LC cowboy (low pressure) will also work in that Taurus Judge you want.

    Sounds like a match made in heaven.

  22. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh Damn! I’m screwed:


    Howell Conversions Cylinder 44 Caliber Pietta 1858 Remington Army Steel Frame Black Powder Revolver 45 ACP 5-Round

    So, let’s tally it up. $280 + tax for the gun. About $600 for the two cylinders… call it $880 plus about 88 tax, then shipping and all… Heck yeah I can fit that under $1k ;-)

    Though I think maybe I need to go back to work for a while… ;-)

  23. Larry Ledwick says:

    Sorry – good news is you don’t have to buy the whole kit at one shot, but you can sort of do a personal Lay-away by picking up one at a time.

    I am also screwed now I want to do the same – curse you red baron!

    I have been trying to not buy new toys for a while.

  24. E.M.Smith says:

    The other “fun bit” is that you can load the .45 LC with black powder… so in fact you can fill in the “missing bit” in history where generally the Black Powder folks are all “cap and ball” and the metallic cartridge folks are all smokeless. BUT, there was a good bit of history where there were metallic cartridges filled with black powder.

    I have a stainless steel revolver that can shoot .38 Specials that are sized for black powder loads as that was what was around when the .38 Special was created. I’ve not done it, but value the ability ( I have made black powder from scratch…)

    Oh, and FWIW, I’ve been watching some YouTube videos on making paper cartridges. It seems there was a guy making very nice wood dowel / socket kit for making paper cartridges for Black Powder guns who has unfortunately passed. The guy who had showcased his kit in a video is now selling a plastic former. In the two videos, he uses both coffee filters and cigarette papers as material to make the “case”.

    I find it an attractive thing, curiously. We can very easily, now, keep paper cartridges dry in Tupperware like stuff. So it’s common papers, cast bullet, and black powder. Nice. Then your reload time on a black powder gun becomes “drop in and seat with lever”. Or maybe “swap cylinder to the next batch of rounds” and later do the filling and seating. Yeah, it’s a 5 or 6 round “magazine” that costs a few $Hundred… but you have zero “paperwork” and crap to deal with, and a .45 250 ish grain bullet at 900 FPS is just as capable however it is launched….

  25. E.M.Smith says:

    OH, probably ought to state in Full Disclosure:

    My Sister does Western Reenacting with real guns… Not sure what all she has, but likes to do the Dress Up with Hubby and has some kind of Six Shooter on the hip.

    Don’t mess with Sis…

    Maybe I ought to call her for advice…

    Wait, what? Younger brother calling older Sister for Gun Advice? What was I thinking!


  26. Larry Ledwick says:

    Well in the time elapsed since I mentioned the airsoft rifle, I have put over 500-600 pellets down range.
    Chewed about 6-8 holes the size of a quarter in the cardboard back stop box, and patched them a couple times.

    I consider this a winning idea.

    I need to refine the process of picking up the pellets, (they like to hide under the flaps at the bottom of the cardboard box I used), and some of them are clinging to the bits of cardboard and paper confetti they create as they chew up the box so you need to winnow them like you do grain by putting them in a shallow bowel and stirring them around, then blowing on them or picking the cardboard and target bits out by hand.

    That said, 500+ rounds of practice for essentially zero cost, pretty much a win.

    Due to the zero recoil, you tend to get a bit sloppy and not hold the airsoft firmly, accuracy increases if you pull it into your shoulder like you should a real rifle.

    Great practice for secondary handling issues like putting it on safe and off safe reflexively, as the safety works like the real thing.

    If I did the same practice with budget .223 ammo 500 rounds would have cost me almost $200, even if I used a .22LR sub caliber conversion, a brick of 500 rounds of .22LR is about $15-$20, plus range fees of about $35 and gas to get down there, it would have cost me about $60 to do the same practice using rim fire ammo.

    Then there is the value of being able to just do it at any time the whim strikes.

    As far as I am concerned this little M4 clone airsoft rifle has already payed for itself.

  27. E.M.Smith says:

    I have an envy problem…


  28. H.R. says:

    I know Ossqss will be by sometime soon. I’m finishing up ‘Home’ projects and then will be moving into Florida prep activities, so my shooting (anything) funtime is really crimped.

    Anyhow, because I have it, I think (I know!) I’ll toss my Remington Tyrant into the trailer and take it to Florida. When Ossqss can find a break in his business responsibilities, I’ll run down to his place and see if we can deplete the surplus bird population that is tearing up his pool netting.

    Are you up for that Ossqss?

  29. H.R. says:

    Per Cowboy Competitions – I have a nephew who is seriously into that.

    He is quite good and has been accumulating points (and wins) in the local/regional events. Hasn’t qualified (?) for National events yet, but might get there.

    I own a Cowboy Competition set: Revolver, Lever Action, and SxS shotgun. A few years ago, I considered giving it a whirl, but then I realized that I’d just be taking time away from real talent. However, I have been looking for an opportunity (land and target setup) to just do a bit of shooting under Cowboy Competition rules and conditions, just because it develops practical skills.

    So far, no luck on having any friends with appropriate acreage to try it out.

  30. Larry Ledwick says:

    That is why I moved to airsoft, I have to drive over 60 miles one way to get to a place I can set up my own targets and do my own thing. Basically takes the whole day when you count loading stuff up, going out & meeting a couple friends (tough to get schedules to match) spending a couple hours shooting, then pack it all up and unload it all. That all contingent on the weather cooperating too.

    The days of just driving a couple miles out of town and plinking into some random road side embankment are over, and with the current cultural view of shooters as some sort of threatening presence or out right evil you have to be very careful about even letting people see you load the gear in the car.

  31. A C Osborn says:

    Interesting that we can’t buy that nice Airsoft Colt electric rifle in the UK via Amazon US.
    Shame because it looks like a fun toy.
    Larry, is it primarily designed for bbs?

  32. Larry Ledwick says:

    No not steel (0.177 inch) bbs but the 6mm (0.236 inch) plastic airsoft pellets which weigh either 0.12 gm or 0.2 gm.



    Due to their lower density and larger frontal area in flight, they do not have the range and damage potential of steel bbs, but at across the room ranges carry enough energy to cleanly punch through the front side of a new corrugated cardboard box, and at least embed in the back side, second shot in the same place will go out the back.

    A 20 shot group will leave a ragged hole the size of a quarter and the back side of the box will have a ragged peppered hole.

    In the past I used a piece of rubber backed throw rug to catch the pellets and repeated hits in the same spot eventually broke off the rubber backing in places.

    Will leave an obvious dimple on an empty steel can used as a target.

    You might be blocked due to the appearance of this model, might look to see if other designs are allowed.

  33. Larry Ledwick says:

    On using airsoft as a training tool to build basic skills.
    Even the professionals recognize the training value of airsoft, especially as the introductory to basic shooting skills for new shooters.




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