Boris Says Take It Or We Leave It

There’s a 2 minute Boris video at the other end of the link.

British PM Boris Johnson Sends Final Brexit Offer Amid Standoff
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson sent a final Brexit offer Wednesday, making it clear he is prepared to leave the EU with no deal by the end of October.

Bailee Byers
6 hours ago

MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) – Prime Minister Boris Johnson made a final Brexit offer to the European Union on Wednesday and said that unless the bloc compromised, Britain would leave without a deal at the end of this month.

In what supporters cast as a moment of truth after more than three years of crisis, Johnson stuck to his hard line on Brexit, giving some of the first, albeit vague, details of what he described as “constructive and reasonable proposals”.

The Reuters article it is based on:

In what Johnson’s supporters cast as a moment of truth after more than three years of Brexit crisis, Johnson urged Brussels to compromise but warned that if it did not then Britain would leave the EU without a deal on Oct. 31.

Johnson went further than many expected on the most contentious issue – the border between British-ruled Northern Ireland and EU member Ireland – with a proposal for an all-island regulatory zone to cover all goods, replacing the so-called backstop arrangement he says he cannot accept.

Besides the concession though, Johnson proposed giving Northern Ireland institutions the ongoing power to abide by or exit the regulatory zone – a possible step too far for Ireland and the EU.

So, looks like the fat’s in the fire now…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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42 Responses to Boris Says Take It Or We Leave It

  1. YMMV says:

    It’s appropriate that the Ireland Question is again dominant. Ireland has wanted to exit the UK since forever and has fought many battles, including the civil war a hundred years ago, not to mention more recent “Troubles”. This could be a two-fer. It may be too much to hope for. But Boris is a better negotiator than May with both hands tied behind his back.

  2. E.M.Smith says:


    What surprises me is how much noise and smoke comes about over this. It really isn’t all that hard, IMHO.

    As I’ve said several times before (in less direct form) all you need to do is ignore it.


    Don’t do ANYTHING at the “border”.

    Put your import / export inspections and all that at the point where good leave the island for Britain. Tell the folks in N. Ireland and the Republic of Ireland that it’s up to them to behave themselves and then Shut The F(*) UP.

    Yes, there will be informal “trade” between the two regions. Who really gives a damn? We’re talking booze and cows and some crafts at most. Ignore it.

    There’s about 2800 out of 3000 ish miles of Canada / US border “protected” by a sign saying what side you are on (IF you are lucky) or by nothing at all. Nearly 100% of everyone and everything that matters goes through the kiosk where they ask you a dozen questions to make sure you are not a nut job and NEVER bother to open the boot of the car unless you are an ass. It works FINE. (There’s even less on the Alaska / Canada border, BTW, I’m talking lower 48…)

    So is it really going to be the end of life as we know it if someone in a Free N.Ireland swaps some USA Ham import for some EU Republic of Ireland Whisky?

    The lengths people will go to to find imaginary “problems” in liberty amazes me.

  3. philjourdan says:

    How to comply with the law and still get your way. BoJo may not be the sharpest politician around, but he does seem to be an honest one. By giving them a “take it or leave it”, they will leave it because of their egos. He complies with the law, and still gets Brexit.

    BoJo may not be smart as I said, but liberals have demonstrated they are even less smart.

  4. Bill In Oz says:

    I am now at the stage of watching & waiting on Brexit…Boris has done things I did not expect him to allow – like waving the Reamainer bill through the house of ‘Lordies’… And accepting the wise wizrds of the Supreme court ruling of proroging the Commons… If I were the PM I ask the Queen to sack the bloody lot. And appoint replacement who are not EU sympathisers.. Now that would learn ’em !

    So.. just waiting.. & watching.

  5. YMMV says:

    Here’s another Irish coincidence. The origin of Halloween is an ancient Irish custom.

    As far as I know there are no roads between Canada and the US which do not have border agents. The Irish border is not like that. They call it invisible. No border agents, maybe no signs.
    The walls have been within the cities of Northern Ireland, such as in Londonderry slash Derry. (Some Irish can not bring themselves to say the London part).

    I was in Ireland recently and I can confirm that they wish to keep their border invisible, but I could not get them to see it like we do (just ignore it there). The EU is even worse — someone might smuggle a ham!

    An interesting thing about the Republic is that the new generation has new values. Divorce is legal, Abortion is legal (both votes were not even close). And the current Teach (I won’t try to spell the Gaelic word, but that is how it is pronounced; it means Prime Minister) is gay. Any religious component to the troubles is now history, or nearly so.

  6. gallopingcamel says:

    philjourdan said:
    “BoJo may not be the sharpest politician around, but he does seem to be an honest one.”

    I am deeply offended that anyone could doubt his mental capacity. BoJo is the “Thinking Man’s Idiot”. I voted for him (as a “Write In Candidate” for POTUS) in the 2004, 2008 and 2012 presidential races. I would have voted for him in 2016 if Donald Trump was not on the ballot.

    You went to the heart of the matter when you mentioned the word “honest”. Honesty is a rare quality in politicians and especially in those who aspire to the highest offices such as “Prime Minister” or “President”. Suddenly the UK and the USA have honest leaders. Naturally, the ruling elites can’t stand that. Honest leaders might expose their rapacity so Trump is being impeached over a phone call while disgusting corruption by the Biden family is condoned. “Business as Usual”?

    Sadly it is “Business as Usual” for the Bidens and the Clinton crime family to steal hundreds of millions of dollars. It is “Business as Usual” for Obama to corrupt the Intel agencies, the IRS, the FBI and the Justice department while putting a target on the back of law enforcement officers. It is “Business as Usual” for the federal justice system to be used to punish anyone who supports Donald Trump while ignoring criminal activity by Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Mueller, Weissman, McCabe, Strok, the Ohrs, Lisa Page, James Baker, Loretta Lynch, Lois Lerner, Eric Holder and John Koskinen.

    Can Trump fix the relentless rise of elites intent on defying “We the People”? It does not seem likely but if he fails we are headed to civil war.

  7. Graeme No.3 says:

    The latest “news” is that Boris may not go even if the Remainers vote him out. He will stay in No.10 and refuse to resign as P.M. nor recommend a replacement. That would lead to the Queen dissolving Parliament and a general election, with Boris in No.10 as caretaker P.M.
    Not at all what the Remainers want, especially as Brexit likely would happen before the election.
    Based apparently on gossip not on any statement by Boris, but ‘a leak’ designed to scare the Remainers? Their counter would have to be voting for a new Prime Minister, but as they cannot agree so far, Corbyn being quite unsuitable, and talk of elevating The Speaker Bercow to that height wouldn’t win them any votes.
    For some reason vague memories from my boyhood days surface about a rabbit outsmarting a fox.

  8. beththeserf says:

    Keep yer nerve, Boris.

  9. rhoda klapp says:

    Ref the rabbit and the fox, I’ve always suspected that ‘no deal’ is the briar patch that Boris is oh-so-desperate to avoid.

  10. Kåre from Norway says:

    BoJo is not stupid. He participated in the discussion below before the Brexit vote. He was excellent.

    I do not know know whether or not he will be able to untie the Gordian knot of the British membership in the EU. But I wish him well.

  11. rhoda klapp says:

    As far as Ireland is concerned my mileage does indeed vary. I don’t think the island of Ireland has ever been united except as part of the UK. A view held by many Americans I’ve spoken to see it as the UK still in greedy possession of the North, NI, Ulster, whatever, while they yearn to unite with the South. That really is not the case, the UK would have dropped it a hundred years ago but the population of Ulster did not want to join in the Republic for mostly religious reasons. They still don’t, and any time they do vote for it they can unite the island. The South has a historical imperative to seek union (it’s in their constitution, or was) but in practical terms they are not so keen to shell out the cash or take on a partly reluctant population. I am not an expert, don’t believe this without checking, but if it was easy we would have fixed it before. It remains unfixed because it’s a wicked problem and Brexit does not help.

  12. A C Osborn says:

    The problem for Brexiteers is that Boris’ deal is not a new deal, it is just a rehash of May’s deal.
    Which is not Brexit as Brexiteers voted for.
    It leaves the UK under too many controlling influences of the EU.
    If it was to be accepted and turns out to be May’s deal he and the Tories will likely get slaughtered at the next GE.

  13. gallopingcamel says:

    The EU needs the UK to buy its automobiles, wine etc. The UK could get those tings cheaper and better elsewhere so the EU is no longer as rigid as it was when “negotiating” with Teresa May.

    Even so the EU is unlikely to accept the terms spelled out in the Boris speech so “No Deal BREXIT” on October 31 should happen.

    I will believe it when I see it given the ability of the ruling elites to put sand in the wheels of progress.

  14. jdseanjd says:

    If anyone is interested in BoJo’s non-existent honesty, may I suggest a trip to John Ward’s site?
    John is a retired-to-France ex advertising man who had mucho contact with Brit politicians during his working days. He keeps up to date on Brit & EU politics better than any other analyst I know:
    Stick Boris Johnson in the search box, & stand back.

    Brexit is an ongoing abortion which has surprised the crap out of me: I, like Farage , thought the June 2016 Leave Referendum vote was job done. The reality revealed since that the majority of our MPs are traitors to democracy was a shock, to say the least.

    I rather suspect it all comes down to money: without Brit contributions the failing EU would-be Empire is a bankrupt failing corrupt would-be Empire. We contribute about £350 million per week, the EU gives us back less than half & tells us how to spend it. The EU has not had its accounts audited in over 21 years.

    I also suspect that the Banksters of the City Of London square mile got a whiff of the EUrocrats’ plans to tax their financial dealings: a tax too far. If these Banksters are paying BoJo & have decided to pull the plug on their globalist EU project, we’re out & the EU collapses more quickly than it would have.

    I think the divisions in the globalists’ ranks are becoming wider & more obvious: their One World Govt project is piling up on the rocks of the symbiotic partnership the insane US Empire has forced Russia & China into.

    The Irish border issue is a figment: a distraction designed to derail Brexit exactly comparable to the figment of Russiagate, designed to derail Trump.

    John Doran.

  15. Simon Derricutt says:

    As far as I can see, Brexit is basically cancelled, because there’s too much money involved and politicians are not expensive to buy. I don’t see Boris as an honest politician, or indeed honest as a person, and he’s been playing the buffoon for years while passing the real work of the job to his subordinates. I don’t doubt his intelligence, but his main talent is in talking elliptically, passing the buck, and getting someone else to do the hard bits. Possibly, as Rhoda said, he’s been effective as a local MP, but then he’s only got to talk well and then pass the note to his minions to fix whatever needs fixing.

    I think Boris’ hands have been pretty comprehensively hog-tied as regards what he’ll be able to do, and the legs of the negotiation position have been chopped away by making the law that he either gets a deal or an extension. As such, I’ll wait and see what actually happens before I make any provisions as to what to do about it (such as getting French citizenship, French driving-license, etc.) since it looks like the uncertainty will continue for a while and it seems fairly likely that A50 will be withdrawn. I could be wrong on that….

    Possibly Boris has a cunning plan to get around the impasse, and get the UK out despite the obstacles. Could be that will then be ruled illegal after the fact, though – after all, something that actually happened (prorogation of Parliament) has been ruled to have never happened.

    This has similarities to the AGW scam, and the Orange Man Bad ideas. At the moment, my ex-wife and her partner are visiting, and it seems they buy into both memes no matter what evidence is brought up. Gets a bit strange when I point at the tide-gauges over up to 200 years and say “where’s the change in slope?” and they insist that sea-level rise will inundate low-lying land by the end of the century. Or when I talk about the increased employment levels (especially for Blacks, Hispanics, and women) and they say “but the rich whites are getting tax rebates, so it’s not good for the others”. Seems the Big Lie still works, and people are urged to emote rather than look at the data.

    Ireland remains an insoluble problem using politics as normal. The religious differences remain, but really it’s more of a tribal division with grievances going back centuries. I think Boris’ idea of having a customs border in the sea makes sense, though, and possibly in time NI will itself vote to join Eire to stay in the EU providing they can still keep UK citizenship (for those that want it). Surprisingly, he’s got the backing of the DUP on this customs plan where May couldn’t, and it remains to be seen what Sinn Fein think about it. Since it does effectively unify Ireland, they shouldn’t really be upset, but it’s hard to predict.

    It looks to me that the UK could do pretty well if they simply say they won’t impose tariffs on anything unless the good are shipped below cost price because of some foreign government subsidy. Basically, free trade with everyone. Support local industry in things like steel and concrete if necessary, given that those are strategically important, and support farming too so that the country can support itself if trade is cut off. Basically, there, remove the possibility of hydraulic despotism by other countries, but in general remove obstructions to trade. Could be that’s too radical to fly, though….

  16. E.M.Smith says:


    There’s places where the border runs through towns. Here’s a library on both sides:

  17. gallopingcamel says:

    jdseanjd said:
    “Stick Boris Johnson in the search box, & stand back.”
    I did that and found where the “Media” stands. Do you really believe that “Media” is honest or fair when covering Boris Johnson or Donald Trump?

    Pardon me for preferring populists to elitists.

  18. Larry Ledwick says:

    Tim Poole on recent ANTIFA assault conviction.

  19. E.M.Smith says:

    Gee, nice to know at least one of them has gotten a sentence. Now just find that the whole mob is for the purpose of inciting violence in a “color revolution” and then nail the batch of them (and their funders…) under RICO…

  20. philjourdan says:

    To All: I did not mean to stir up a hornets nest by qualifying BoJo’s intelligence or lack thereof. MY perception is from the media (not the YSM for the most part) , and his actions on the roadblocks put up to prevent him from keeping his promise. It just seems he has been out maneuvered, and unlike Trump, we do not get direct communication from him over here. So my ignorance clouds my perception.

    If he pulls of Brexit, my estimation will change dramatically. The problem with living in America is the American Media which is worse than useless when it comes to anything outside of the country.

  21. E.M.Smith says:


    I regularly watch UK Sky news along with other foreign sources. They are only a little bit better….

    It is highly unclear to what extent Boris is Very Bright, but exccentric or perhaps deviously hiding it. Or a bit slow and prone to simple to avoid personal gaffs that have him careening around bashing into things.

    Like you, I’m going to judge him on Brexit. IFF He pulls it off with flare on Oct 31, then he’s very bright and a bit devious. IF he’s bollixed it all up in a fight with Parliament he didn’t have to pick and then blew off the Nigile Helpline, then a bit more idiocy…

    I’m interested in any perspectives on him as I just don’t have enough exposure to him to make a reasonable assessment.

  22. rhoda klapp says:

    Boris truly is pretty clever. People who don’t like his schtick tend to think he’s a stupid bumbler. That is a mistake. As to whether he can beat the forces arrayed against him I can’t tell. They are the kind of people who use process and interpretations of the rules to get their way. They know all the rules but have no idea of what it’s like to believe in a principle.

    I still think no deal is Boris’s aim, it frees him from restraint in making the departure a success and frees the nation to be what it can be. The proposed deal exchanges being shackled to a corpse to merely being tied to it.

  23. A C Osborn says:

    Rhoda, I really hope that you are right about him wanting a No Deal Brexit.
    Unfortunately I can’t see it.
    Three years ago, based on previous EU interactions with other nations and how pro remain our Government was I predicted these continuous delays giving Remain suppporters time to mount the various challenges that have come about. The only thing I didn’t see at that time was May’s abysmal General Election campaign and Manifesto that practically gauranteed losing the Tory majority.
    Johnson has vacillated between not supporting May and her deal to supporting May and her deal, I just don’t trust him, his past strongly suggests he can’t be trusted.

  24. Graeme No.3 says:

    @A C Osbourn
    Welcome to the Brexit Party.
    Farage obviously distrusts Boris, and Boris doesn’t like the threat of Farage. Hence Boris has to deliver Brexit before the (inevitable) general election, or the Brexit party would slaughter the Conservatives in electorates that voted Leave (the majority) and gain 80-100 seats from the Labour party. Exit Boris.
    So far Farage has been winning in the strategy, and Boris? possibly in tactics. One or other will win out. The Remainers may have to emigrate to the USA and join the Democrats where no-one would recognise (or object) that they are demented.

  25. rhoda klapp says:

    Trust Boris? Well, trust him to act in his own interest. And that would be to look like he has principles and do what he promised. You cannot trust any politician in any nation under any other terms than that.

  26. H.R. says:

    Graeme No.3: “The Remainers may have to emigrate to the USA and join the Democrats where no-one would recognise (or object) that they are demented.”

    Well this is awkward. Our plan was to send the Democrats to the UK.

  27. Simon Derricutt says:

    Reporting about Boris has varied between enthusiastic and derogatory over the years, but I’ve been basing my view on him on what he’s actually said and done. Seems to me he’s great at raising peoples’ enthusiasm to do things, and that once he’s fired up people to do things he’s let them get on with it. He doesn’t seem to put the work in to understand all the consequences since that’s going to be Someone Else’s Problem. He can get enthusiastic followers to solve those that can be solved, and jolly people along to put in the midnight oil needed to achieve the glorious result. Still, he did waste a lot of money and time (other peoples’, of course) with his Garden Bridge project which seemed to me to be totally useless in the first place, and has been talking about a bridge from Scotland to Ireland which would be somewhat expensive and probably not much use. In fact, I thought the Scotland-Ireland bridge was fake news because it was so obviously a waste of money, but it’s true.

    In speeches, he puts a lot of effort into the jokes but again not a lot into considering unintended consequences. I figured he’d never be Prime Minister because of those failings being obvious, that he wouldn’t put the work into understanding the whole picture and would thus make mistakes that a more-engaged person wouldn’t make.

    Boris has been very good at saying what people want to hear, and thus is surprisingly popular. I’m fairly certain though that he doesn’t know how he’s going to deliver on the promises when he makes them, and figures that if he makes enough show of trying to keep them that will be good enough. It’ll be someone else’s fault (those hard-working minions) if things don’t work out as promised.

    He’s certainly bright, and he certainly attracts followers. He may have been the best choice for PM, too, which is a bit of a reflection on the people running against him. Sadly, the same applies in the Labour party, where Jeremy Corbyn is probably the most able to actually lead them, and the party would likely split into warring factions under someone else.

    I can hope that Boris has some cunning stunt planned (don’t try saying that too quickly) that will pull the UK out, but it looks at the moment that he’s been thoroughly hog-tied by a Parliament that is determined to stay because they can then blame the problems on Someone Else. If they can only delay things a bit longer, then they can ask the right questions in another Referendum and thus keep the UK in the EU.

    Strangely, I think the idea of a federation of Europe (on the same lines as the USA) would be good, but of course it needs the same sort of constitutional arrangements as well. Instead, the EU is heading towards a USSR model, with no real democratic input. A benevolent dictatorship is actually a pretty good model, providing it stays benevolent, but when we look at history it obviously won’t stay benevolent for that long. Better therefore to go for a republic with a lot of checks and balances that limit the power of any part of the rulers.

    More popcorn needed….

  28. YMMV says:

    Thanks for the cross-library border link. Interesting. Technically that is not a road, so it’s not an exception to my claim. That article was a few years old. I will assume it’s still valid.–Stanstead_Border_Crossing

    The other exception is native/indian reserves which span the border,
    Rumor is that cigarettes are smuggled!

  29. E.M.Smith says:


    There are lots of others. But I wasn’t trying to prove you wrong. It is quite true that all the major roads have border stations. But it is also true there are thousands of miles where there’s nearly nothing and folks ignore it. Saw a picture from somewhere in the middle of miles of barb wire fence short enough to step over with a little marker saying it was the border. Then there are all those miles of shared lakes…

    So my suggestion for Ireland is the same. Customs station where you go report next to major roads for shipping, otherwise ignore it and check pasports when folks want to leave the island.

  30. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh, though it is tighter after 9/11. Here they closed one of the common streets. With flower pots…

  31. gallopingcamel says:

    We won’t know how good Boris is until he has dealt with the BREXIT crisis.

    Recently I read “Churchill: Walking With Destiny” by Andrew Roberts. Even during his time as Prime Minister he was continually undermined by Chamberlinites and he had to survive three “No Confidence” votes during WWII.

    Boris lacks Churchill’s ability to communicate with the British people so he is at a serious disadvantage. My hope is that he has other qualities that will compensate.

  32. YMMV says:

    jdseanjd: “The Irish border issue is a figment: a distraction designed to derail Brexit”

    Exactly! As in, If you solve this riddle, we’ll give you some other problem to solve.
    But despite ages of bitter disputes between the two factions, the bottom line is that both tribes are Irish and are indistinguishable except to each other. The religious difference isn’t as important as the fact that each side has discriminated against the other. It is fixable, given good will.

    That border should not be any harder than the US/Canada border, or any other border between similar compatible countries.

    BTW, Viva the Catalan exit! Or rather, best of luck against the oppressor, since that exit looks far off.

  33. beththeserf says:

    In a globull-ist world
    where raison d’etat
    trumps raison d’exit,
    why, any distraction
    will do, will do, ANY
    distraction will do …
    or preferably many,
    keep the media busy
    and feeling import-ANT,
    say, any distraction will do.

  34. A C Osborn says:

    Graeme No.3 says: 7 October 2019 at 9:41 am
    @A C Osbourn Welcome to the Brexit Party.

    I voted UKIP in the last but one GE and Brexit Party in the last GE and the Euros.
    I gave up on the main parties years ago.

  35. rhoda klapp says:

    Negotiations are said to have broken down with a German demand that we give up Northern Ireland to EU laws and customs union. That isn’t acceptable to the UK or to the Unionists in NI. Could it be that the EU thinks NI is a reluctant part of the U K? That would be to over-simplify a complicated situation. Could it be that the EU thinks the UK will roll over on this? We won’t. So we are going for no deal and out on 31st Oct, or if the legal machinations force a delay, then an election with the tories leading the polls. I will vote tory to get out if I must. Nobody else can win in my constituency anyway.

  36. E.M.Smith says:

    @Rhoda Klapp:

    I have a nice video on that which would be posted and up already but for the ChromeBox deciding to be a PITA (again)…

    Bottom line is my suspicion is: Parliament are in league with the EuroCrats and are playing for an Article 50 revocation. Boris will be forced to say “no deal” on (Oct 19?) and then Parliament will say “What? We just can’t take No Deal!!! Let’s cancel Article 50″. What happens then is anybody’s guess. Does Boris have any way to “sit on a bill” like that to quash it? Even for just 12 days?

  37. YMMV says:

    Just when you thought it couldn’t get any more tangled. Quoting from llanfar’s link:

    Labour MP Caroline Flint has revealed she has sent a letter to EU chiefs alongside 18 other Labour MPs, pleading for them to agree a Brexit deal with the UK. The MPs warn that a further delay “will solve nothing” and only add to public division and disenchantment with UK politics – a complete contradiction to Jeremy Corbyn’s stance. They want Brexit to be delivered on October 31 as the Brexit debate has gone on for too long already.

    Yet another Irish coincidence. Jonathan Swift was Irish. The author of A Modest Proposal and the author of Gulliver’s Travels. You know, the one where the little people tie down the big guy. I haven’t read it, just things on the web about it. It is said to be about politicians, a put-down of politicians. I guess I should read it. But you need a guide book to go along with it in order to understand it. Luckily, Isaac Asimov wrote one, “The Annotated Gulliver’s Travels”.

    Too bad he is not around to write a guide book to Brexit.

  38. Steve C says:

    Boris is weakening rapidly. No sooner does Farage start sounding positive about him than he rules out No Deal, the only thing anybody voted for. I think I already mentioned that I don’t trust Johnson an inch, and it hasn’t taken him long to show why.

    And even if Farage somehow swept all before him, it is unlikely that we’d get what we want. The founder of the Brexit Party, Catherine Blaiklock, has lately warned us that it is no longer the party she started, but is now a party so infested with Marxist political “correctness” that it would flood our streets with even more of the Third World than we already suffer. Farage is either blind to this or complicit in it, neither of which inspires confidence.

  39. E.M.Smith says:

    @Steve C:

    It does look like the UK Citizens are facing a disenfranchisement in all directions. I suspect this is entirely by design.

  40. beththeserf says:

    Masters of the Saul Alinsky take over, the globalists get every angle covered. Except Trump, though My how they try!

  41. E.M.Smith says:

    I’m still hoping Boris has an angle… We’ll know in about 3 weeks.

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