Alice, Wonderland, The Left, The CIA, And You

First off, a bit of preamble.

Some month or two ago, a person who rarely comments posted a link to an article about (something government related I think) and I sort of “poo poo’d” their point. I’d also found ANOTHER article at the site they pointed too that talked about the “Alice In Wonderland” technique used by the C.I.A. which I found very interesting.

I was going to thank the person, and forgot. I’d planned to do it in a short article about my musing that maybe what we were seeing, culturally, was an analog of the AiWT (Alice in Wonderland Technique). Deliberate confusion of norms to make people more compliant and disrupt awareness and opposition. But I was slothful and did not get around to it.

Now, despite spending about an hour dredging through past comments, I can’t find the comment or the link to properly credit the person. If you are that person, please point me in the right direction…

OK, the mea culpa out of the way:

The AiWT basically has a couple of people spout nonsense at you until you (trying to make sense of it) collapse your ego inward and become more compliant.

What prompted this posting, now? Well, I ran into a video where another person came to the same “conclusion” that what we see happening now, culturally, sure looks like the application of the AiWT on a culture wide basis. Is it really a question what gender someone is? (Look in pants, inny, or outy?) Is it really rational for folks on The Left to shout about the “white privilege” and “racism” of BLACK conservatives? (They have done that…).

Just go down the list of the Crap being shoved at folks. It sure LOOKS like it is intended to disorient and confuse, to bust up rational thought and make people more malleable. After all, who wants to be called a RSMWPXB (Racist Sexist Misogynist White Privileged Xenophobic Bigot yada yada cis boom bah…)

http://obscurantist.com/oma/alice-in-wonderland/

from “KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation” (CIA torture guide) dated July 1963:

The aim of the Alice in Wonderland or confusion technique is to confound the expectations and conditioned reactions of the interrogatee. He is accustomed to a world that makes some sense, at least to him: a world of continuity and logic, a predictable world. He clings to this world to reinforce his identity and powers of resistance.

The confusion technique is designed not only to obliterate the familiar but to replace it with the weird. Although this method can be employed by a single interrogator, it is better adapted to use by two or three. When the subject enters the room, the first interrogator asks a doubletalk question — one which seems straightforward but is essentially nonsensical. Whether the interrogatee tries to answer or not, the second interrogator follows up (interrupting any attempted response) with a wholly unrelated and equally illogical query. Sometimes two or more questions are asked simultaneously. Pitch, tone, and volume of the interrogators’ voices are unrelated to the import of the questions. No pattern of questions and answers is permitted to develop, nor do the questions themselves relate logically to each other. In this strange atmosphere the subject finds that the pattern of speech and thought which he has learned to consider normal have been replaced by an eerie meaninglessness. The interrogatee may start laughing or refuse to take the situation seriously. But as the process continues, day after day if necessary, the subject begins to try to make sense of the situation, which becomes mentally intolerable. Now he is likely to make significant admissions, or even to pour out his story, just to stop the flow of babble which assails him. This technique may be especially effective with the orderly, obstinate type.

This video explores how it works (they guy is a psychologist) and explores how it might be presently in use culturally…

It seems to fit all the known facts…

FWIW, I suspect that my tendency to accept that others can be nutty and that is OK, while simultaneously “keeping a tidy mind” while also having a “internal only moral compass” (i.e. I don’t look others for my sense of self worth, my centeredness, nor my evaluation of what is “normal”. It’s all internal.) may be in some way protective against the onslaught of P.C. Nonsense and Identitarian Nitwittery.

I really just don’t care if that person nattering at me is nutty and spouting nonsense. I’ll just retreat to my inward thought space and contemplate something of interest.

Perhaps the fact that I worked on a psych ward for a year or so helped to teach me not to anchor my reality in “others” a bit too ;-) I’m very comfortable thinking “That person is nuttier than a fruitcake, don’t let their thoughts in… and certainly don’t try to make sense of it.”

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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32 Responses to Alice, Wonderland, The Left, The CIA, And You

  1. hillrj says:

    EM, you are surely right. But who or what is doing it and why?

  2. Power Grab says:

    I’ve never heard of this, but it sounds like a good description of the craziness I’m seeing come from almost all directions.

    I have described the craziness as an attempt to get people to abandon their tried-and-true ways of thinking and behaving. It seems to be a way to detach people from things that have worked well for humans for centuries.

  3. Larry Ledwick says:

    This video discusses the process from the Soviet point of view about the time the wall came down.

    He uses the term demoralize but it is more than destroying social standards of morals but also to make a persons world make no sense. Things that used to taken as givens in society like abusing children is bad, now you have nut balls stating we should eat children to prevent over population and the left did not find that reprehensible immediately. They invested a lot of effort into trying to put a rational jacket around that statement and the fact that AOC did not immediately dismiss the idea.

  4. tom0mason says:

    You can close your eyes and not see, you can not close your ears.
    Trying to make sense of babble that is somehow aimed and related to you is very difficult, especially if you are put into a state of high stress or intoxication.
    Some of the verbal muck will stick.

  5. E.M.Smith says:

    @Tom0Mason:

    Somewhat true, but… I had three older sisters who were constantly trying to make me do things… Early on I learned to have “selective hearing” and a great ability to ignore pests ;-)

    I suppose being partially deaf is also a feature here… I already have “decoding issues” with normal speech. Someone sends babble at me, I’m going to “clean it up” automatically into something more sensible… and then probably still ignore it ;-)

    @jillrf:

    Immagine for a moment you are one of the few hundred most rich and powerful people in the world. You regularly meet with a few hundred of your peers. What is your Greatest Threat? ALL the other people in the world wanting to take your stuff via Government.

    So what would you do? How about all band together to take over Governments and use them to keep all the “other people” confused and looking at Anything But You as “the problem”…

    What did the Royals have done to various parts of the Middle East after the Wolrd War? Carve out “non-sensical” countries that pitted ethinic groups against each other.

    What does the Soros Color Revolution do? Pit the people against each other and against their leader.

    What does the CIA do to destabilize countries? Pit an insurgency against the government.

    Every power broker out there wants to control someone to use them against someone else. What does the “Racist, Homophobe, yada yada” chant do? Pit one group against another so the Dims win. What did Hillary & Biden do? Collect $Millions to $Billions. Ditto Soros no doubt…

    @PowerGrab:

    I only heard of it a month or two ago, and a lightbulb lit up…

    @Larry:

    Oh Boy, more “input” ;-)

    It might also explain why Putin has been pusing the Orthodox Church in Russia. He saw it as a vaccination against that “de-morals” attack.

    @All:

    I’m of the opinion that a much stronger pushback against the whole Cultural Marxism / PC Babble / loss of moral compass thing is going to be essential.

    I refuse to have my hard won virtues and values erased for a void to be inserted.

  6. andysaurus says:

    I suggest that variants of the technique are expounded in Len Deighton’s “The IPCRESS File” (book and film) and in the film “Gaslight”. That’s why, as Jordan Peterson says repeatedly, it’s important to tell the truth, especially to yourself.

  7. Larry Ledwick says:

    Yes the traditional power bases in Russia were the Army, the intelligence and black ops folks (Rasputin – – to – – KGB) and the Church. The Monarchy had to ally with at least one and preferably 2 of those bases to retain control. A forth which was an associate of the above was organized crime, which sometimes was the opponent and sometimes the ally of convenience.

    One of the side effects of a police state is it breeds a powerful and smart organized criminal who learns to serve the state and play in the fringes as muscle for hire.

    Stalin crushed the Church because it was the only power base he could not control with the Army and the secret police.

    Putin has re-lit that candle to establish an ethical base in the formally secularized Soviet Union of modern day Russia. Without a moral code the society inherently devolves to a criminal based hierarchy of raw power – a “might makes right” system naturally evolves if there is no code of laws or ethical standards to mute those expedient uses of power and intimidation.

    Note that the hard left is trying to do the same thing here in America, they have compromised the churches and turned them into socialist organs that promote uncontrolled immigration while the secularists ridicule the religious and the the law abiding as suckers and naive fools.

    They couch it as being clever, but they have made it fashionable to be corrupt (as long as you are the top dog in the pile like the big players on wall street). Hollywood turns criminals in to icons (Breaking Bad) etc.

    But Trump is bringing back the traditional values of Honor, Patriotism, Altruism (giving up his salary), playing by the rules (even if you play the rules right to the limit), and shutting down the centers of corruption (drugs and organized crime)

  8. andysaurus says:

    I wrote the above before I watched the Pommie Psychologist. I see he already mentions Gaslight and Peterson. What he doesn’t say is who “they” are. I can see it from the left, but I’d bet he thinks it is from the right too.

  9. jdseanjd says:

    The ancient & invariable rule of Empire is “Divide & Conquer, Divide & Rule”.

    Two books I recommend:
    Pawns In The Game, by WWII Canadian naval intelligence officer, William Guy Carr.
    & Our Occulted History, Do The Global Elite Conceal Ancient Aliens? By genius journalist Jim Marrs

    ‘Pawns’ is well referenced by chapter, but not indexed.
    ‘Our Occulted’ is both well ref’d & indexed.

    ‘Pawns’ can be read free online:
    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/pawns_inthegame/pawns_contents.htm

    Rothschild + 12 ‘pals’ 25 point plot for global domination is in chapter 3, on The French Revolution.
    The 1773 plot was drawn up by ex(?) Jesuit Professor of canon (Church) law, Adam Weishaupt.

    I reckon if you’ve mastered the art of appearing money out of thin air & lending it out at interest to govts, corporations & individuals, to the extent that future generations will be taxed to service the debts, then you’ve got a pretty fair sized Empire going, & would be willing to invest in plenty of skullduggery to preserve this unsustainable fraud.

    Research the phrase: “Indurated down to a fixture”.

    I first saw ‘Pawns’ recommended in a 1hr 4mins video:
    Youtube: Retired Head Of FBI Tells All..
    Honest Ted Gunderson was being poisoned with arsenic when he died of cancer.

    John Doran.

  10. H.R. says:

    The use of PC thinking is a major part of this along with playing on the strong desire of people to ‘belong’ or fit in. All too many people don’t want to be ostracized because the are un-PC.

    I’ve noticed that a lot of PC thought is just plain nutty and nonsensical and seems to be getting worse. It seems to me that a small number of agents of influence can manipulate PC thought and vocabulary to enhance the Alice in Wonderland effect.

    There are those among the populace that have strong internal compasses that immunize them from PC thinking. If they are pressured to accept some PC nuttiness, reject it, and are subsequently ostracized, their reaction would be, “Who needs friends that nutty anyway?”

    I believe that there are a lot of people across America that are that way. The PC sheeple surrounding them makes it seem like they are isolated; “Am I the only one who thinks these people are nuts?”

    Candidate and President Trump’s MAGA rallies have gone a long way towards eliminating those feelings of isolation and relieving any creeping self-doubt among sane, centered, moral people. When you see the crowds responding to President Trump’s speeches (and tweets!) that highlight illegal and immoral behavior and some of the nuttiness, such as just flat out rejecting CAGW, it’s because that veil of seeming isolation is lifted.

    At the Trump Rally I attended, I was moved nearly to tears by the crowd’s Pledge of Allegiance. It still get’s me every time I recall it. Why? Because it was so normal. It was something I hadn’t seen in probably 30 or 40 years that used to be one of the dead-normal bits of glue and string that bound Americans together. The Pledge in particular was something that, despite any political differences, reminded everybody that we are all Americans regardless of our differences.

    Here and there, President Trump is not bothered in the least to call certain things ‘nuts’ and that helps bind people together.

    I believe that the Trump Rallies and tweets are a very strong countermeasure to the Alice in Wonderland technique. People who might be succumbing to the technique hear “The President” say out loud what they think, but were wavering on, and it puts them right back into the healthy frame of mind that “They are nuts, not. Me. I’m fine and I’m not alone.”

    American values have not quite yet been stripped out of the nation, and President Trump is part of the reason we are seeing a resurgence in American values. Many people are returning to being American first, then American-Hyphen-Maybe is second so you remember your history, but it’s not required. Then finally Partisan coming in somewhere down the list.

  11. jim2 says:

    I had already concluded the entire PC thing is BS. It may have started out with good intentions, but has been hijacked like climate change by the true villains of our time.

  12. E.M.Smith says:

    @H.R.:

    I have had similar (even if muted) response to the video version of the Trump Rally. Until Trump, i had never had even an emotional quiver about a candidate or their speeches. At most it was “Well, that one seems OK and not too nutty or evil”. More than once I’ve had an upwelling of emotion and wet eyes at Trump Rallies.. A very peculiar experience for me. Like coming home after a few years in a foreign land…

    Early on in life I realized I was never going to “belong”. A couple of sigmas off the average and all that. First time I did feel some sense of “belonging” was on entry to University. But even that didn’t last more than a year or two as I realized the rest of these folks were not a single cohort so not much to which to “belong”. But it was nice having some feeling of a peer group… So I got used to being with any given group, but not being OF that group. At most an edge member.

    Perhaps that is why the “loner” gets so much disparagement. They are a threat to the control mechanisms of peer pressure…

    @jdseanjd:

    Oh Boy, more input! ;-)

    @andysaurus:

    I’m still processing his observations. Not much info on his political leanings, so I’m unsure of it. Seems to be a centrist sort to me, maybe, so yeah, he ought to figure all sides do it. (Think C.I.A. Daddy Bush / Bonesman Baby Bush are not ‘insiders’?)

    @Larry L:

    It does look like the Catholic Church, under this Pope, is (pardon the expression…) Kissing The Ring of Globalism and endorsing the AGW Meme… Might be interesting to see if there is any listing of Cardinals or Bishops who attend the Bilderberg event…

    FWIW I encouraged my kids to attend Church with their Mom as a hoped “inoculation” of some sort against what was happening in the larger culture. Mostly Evangelical / Protestant sorts (she changed churches every few years… only in the last couple landing on Catholic). It seems to have worked.

    It will be interesting to see how (if at all) the “secularization” process does confronted with Islam. Perhaps it is a “work in progress” ;-)

    @Jim2:

    I was willing to “go along to get along” on the early stages of PC, but then it started being just too nutty. The whole pronoun and gender confusion identitarian thing… So now it has lost me entirely. Once the gel breaks, it breaks all the way… I think we’re seeing that in many countries around the world.

  13. Josh from Sedona says:

    How is a raven like a writing desk?

  14. llanfar says:

    “ How is a raven like a writing desk?” in PC culture, you can identify as either…

  15. Larry Ledwick says:

    Another church based group that was compromised quite some time ago was the United Council of Churches, lots of leftist types took over the organizations of faith back in the 1980’s and just like the UN started enabling activities that try to break the system.

    If you look for it there is lots of information out there on how the United Council of Churches and similar organizations place a religious window dressing on an organization that applies pressure to normalize Communist / Socialist groups and view points at the expense of the traditional patriotic principles of hard work and independence etc.

    Several related groups openly advocate for banning all guns, actively support Marxist rebel groups and have been instrumental in the recent immigrant invasion strategy in Europe and the US.

    http://www.cnview.com/on_line_resources/world_council_of_churches.htm
    http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2011/02/17/world-council-of-churches-moves-to-scrap-communist-name/

    If you look at the political stances of these organizations they are unfailingly hard left in their view point. That hard left stance on many issues has driven many conservatives away from formal religion in America because it no longer advocates for traditional American values and ideals.

  16. Power Grab says:

    This makes me think of Daniel 7:25.

    “He will defy the Most High God and wear down the saints with persecution, and he will try to change all laws, morals, and customs.” (TLB)

  17. wyoskeptic says:

    I have been wondering about this more and more lately. Especially the illogicality of the whole transgender situation. After all, what part of the entire is affected and how should that tiny minority be situated over the top of the vast majority? But the issues are many and seem to be expanding.

    I just attributed it to being HFA (high functioning autistic) since I don’t get people much anyway. I don’t get the body language and the “unspoken” parts of normal conversation that everyone else just seems to get without thinking about it. So I always have to parse what is going on with other people because it is just not instinctive for me. So, mostly I shrug it off and add it to the pile of stuff I just don’t get and never will.

    But lately, it seems to me there is someone who is pushing it harder and harder and more and more viciously. Making more and more demands that everyone obey this nonsense or that nonsense or else be ostracized. Since I have more or less ostracized myself anyway, being a loner that chooses how much or how little socializing I do, it doesn’t penetrate enough to affect me in any way. (Other than a stiff neck from shaking my head so much.)

    If I were writing a sci-fi book, I’d make it aliens who want to keep Earthlings isolated and confined to Earth. Otherwise, I find it difficult to figure out who really benefits, other than some group that wants to remain top dog by keeping everyone else so screwed up they never rise to challenge them.

  18. Larry Ledwick says:

    Agreed wyoskeptic I tend to just blow off the insanity and then you realize how big it is and suddenly the light goes on that this insanity is affecting most of the industrialized world – someone needs to be actively pushing this process for that to be the case.

    People (my self included) tend to presume other people have similar motivations as you do, in isolation you can take one person and say well he / she is doing this to accomplish xyz, but all these people???? Obviously the intended goal is not rational in our world view – so what is it?

    Someone wants the masses to be logically dysfunctional and seriously distracted by bizarre first world problems. This aggravates all the various forms of social friction, creating “us vs them” factions. So that leaves the obvious question ,what are they trying to distract people from? What is the end goal of the division and fragmentation of society.

    Historically that has always been a prelude to bad out comes. Check out the history of the Bolshevik revolution, the break up of yugoslavia, Arab spring movements, the collapse of tolerance in South Africa and open move toward genocide and forced appropriation of lands.

    If people did not have all these made up issues to focus on, had a functioning media that actually produced sound journalism based news, what would they be reporting if all this nonsense was not going on?

    The only answer I can come up with is the likes of George Soros wants wide spread chaos and conflict the attendant hazards – if so that is a direct attack on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs to force the masses to operate at the very primitive physiological and safety needs (as they perceive them through the twisted filter of the media).

    At the same time you have mass riots breaking out all over the world at the same time and the governments involved seem to be intentionally letting them drag on and on. No effort to crush or to cater to the demands of the protesters but rather just constant irritants to keep them going, and in the process wear out the protesters, use up their energy and slowly out themselves to authorities.

    You know the governments are making a list and checking it twice for some future crack down.

  19. philjourdan says:

    who wants to be called a RSMWPXB

    I do.

    And I am one up on you with sisters, so I have learned selective hearing even better. ;-)

  20. Larry Ledwick says:

    Might be interesting to see if there is any listing of Cardinals or Bishops who attend the Bilderberg event…

    I can’t find any but the listing for US attendees is interesting!
    (note the list is not complete – so some attendees might come incognito)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_participants

  21. Terry Jackson says:

    PC has been around a while, I think I first heard it in the ’50’s when the trash man became the sanitary engineer. It was about the same time a book “The Man In The Gray Flannel Suit” was all the rage. Going to school in California was easy. Sigh up at the local high school based on residence, graduate, enroll in local Community college for two years, transfer to any State College for years 3 and 4. Costs were minimal, summer work and a part time job the rest of the year pretty much covered it. Have a college beach party, shotgun contests at 3 pm, no alcohol before or during, shotguns in truck or trunk, beer and party at 4:30. Gun racks with rifles in the trucks in the school parking lot during hunting season. And the colleges were still “in loco parentis”..

    Then came the Berkeley Filthy Speech Riots. MJ started showing up everywhere, ‘free love’ was in the air and everywhere else, LSD did its magic on some minds. Vietnam and the draft were an issue. Woodstock.

    Today, well, MJ has moved toward sacrament status, Transgender is the perfect state, colleges have gone to just loco, pickups and shotguns are just so passe and evil. The Gray Flannel Man has morphed thru the tie-dyed hippie phase and is now your SJW.

    PC is a lot more than simply misrepresenting reality, it is an alternate reality aggressively and affirmatively ignorant of or denying history. PC is a lot easier when no school teaches history or context.

    This is a lesson in how you destroy civilization. No extraterrestrial event needed, just self righteous college folks and little to no opposition. Words Have Meaning. Ideas Have Consequences. Not when you alter the meanings and hide the consequences. Interesting times, indeed.

  22. Geoff Cruickshank says:

    If there is some such force or collaboration deliberately inflicting the nonsense we see around us, then it’s a pretty smart tactic, because faced with the question of how to respond; do I make an issue of each instance that arises in social situations (thereby adding to the social fracturing intended), or let it go through to the keeper, thereby giving lunacy a free pass.
    I have tended towards the latter course, thinking, well I’m old and they are stupid. They will grow up and be old and grumpy in their turn, and after all it’s their world. Somebody has probably groomed me to think that “it’s their world” thought too, if I’m going to be really aware.
    If, on the other hand, we plan to fight this crap, then I think someone has to come up with a better descriptive noun than PC. Problem is the symptoms vary so much, from the Sexual Deviant Normalisers to the Open Borderers to Extinction Rebellion nutters that it’s hard to think of something all encompassing, and one falls back on ‘fuckwits’ which, while true enough and satisfactory to the utterer, really doesn’t inspire the correct feeling of contempt within the listener.
    How to describe these Sorosity Lads… I don’t know.

  23. beththeserf says:

    Down the rabbit hole, latest post at Jo Nova, re Oz temperature history – more becomes less and less becomes more with BOM Acorn adjusted data.

  24. sabretoothed says:

    Cool story, sorry couldn’t find tips

  25. Larry Ledwick says:

    The premise of seeding warheads that sleep until activated is significantly similar to the rumored autonomous thermonuclear submarines/torpedoes which appeared in the news some time back.

    Given the vast majority of US trade passes through a handful of port facilities, such devices could effectively shut down all commerce by sea in a war time situation.

    Looking at this list of our major ports it is easy to see that well over 50% or our port capacity could be obliterated by just a handful of devices.

    85% of our port capacity is covered by only 11 ports.
    66.4% of port capacity is covered by only 6 ports.
    47% of port capacity is covered by only the 3 largest ports
    Los Angeles, Long beach and New York / Newark

    Those ports are close enough to each other that both complexes could be taken out by a single very large device. If agrivated by an EMP strike it would starve the US in a matter of weeks.

    https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/top_30_u.s._
    ports_trade_tensions_determine_where_cargo_goes_next

  26. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry:

    There was a rumor at one point that after they got the bomb, Israel put tactical nukes, smuggled in in parts in diplomatic pouches, in the floors of their embassies. Made telling other countries not to attack them a bit easier… So the story goes…

    “So, tell me Vladimir, how much does downtown Moscow mean to you? More than selling tanks to Palestine?”…

    OH, and per ports:

    Realize all sorts of ships enter them and are often not boarded until 3 miles or closer. Then realize lead shields lots of sensors. Then realize ballast is needed in ships. Then remember that water is a GREAT neutron reflector enhancing explosive force, but you need a lot of it, like feet…

    What are the odds that a ship with a small nuke under 10 tons of lead in the keel would get inside the blast radius of the harbor facilities without too much trouble?

  27. p.g.sharrow says:

    Back in 1959 I designed an atomic reactor rocket for a science fair project. After I was finished and had time to really think about it, Realized it was too dangerous to ever use in a planetary environment because of how fast it would degrade internally.
    In the late 1960s the U.S. government created and tested such a device and in 1972 scheduled a trans- pacific test flight of it but canceled the test. “Too dangerous to operate. Risk of Reactor internal failure far too great.”
    “Attempts to build nuclear-propelled missiles are a relic of the early Cold War,” Pollack told Insider. “These devices have never flown successfully, as far as I am aware, and have certainly never been deployed. The entire concept should be relegated to the past.”.
    The demands on the internal structures and materials is far to great under the demands required for an effective rocket (thrust) impulse. Basically, under operation the thing erodes it’s internal structures until failure and melt down…pg

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