Not Unprecedented: President Precedent!

There has been some gnashing of teeth and snarling of “UN-precedented” for a POTUS to not just give it up at the first whiff of a loss to his opponent. That’s just horrid ignorance or a flat out lie.

There’s a very dramatic Presidential precedent.

Republican Rutherford B. Hayes vs Democrat Samuel J. Tilden.

In the end, the Republican got the presidency, but not without an act of Congress (even if not fully written down…)

I’ll be quoting from The Wiki so as not to risk copyright claims. I’m sure you can find the same historical truth elsewhere if that bothers you. So far nobody seems to have been motivated to rewrite the history of Rutherford B. Hayes.

The basic story line is that the Democrats in The Old South wanted those Damn Yankee Republicans who were running reconstruction to get out of their States so they could get back to oppressing their black population. Tilden had more approved Electoral College votes than did Hayes, AND was ahead in the popular vote (sound familiar?) BUT there were 20 electoral college votes that were not settled in time. So a “deal” was cut. The Compromise of 1877. The 20 electoral college votes would go to Hayes, and he’d get POTUS, but in return, the Republicans would get the hell out of the prior Confederate States and let the Democrats there get back to abuse of former slaves.

Here’s the links:

The Compromise of 1877 was an unwritten deal, informally arranged among U.S. Congressmen, that settled the intensely disputed 1876 presidential election. It resulted in the United States federal government pulling the last troops out of the South, and ending the Reconstruction Era. Through the Compromise, Republican Rutherford B. Hayes was awarded the White House over Democrat Samuel J. Tilden on the understanding that Hayes would remove the federal troops whose support was essential for the survival of Republican state governments in South Carolina, Florida and Louisiana. Under the compromise, Democrats who controlled the House of Representatives allowed the decision of the Electoral Commission to take effect. The outgoing president, Republican Ulysses S. Grant, removed the soldiers from Florida. As president, Hayes removed the remaining troops from South Carolina and Louisiana. As soon as the troops left, many white Republicans also left, and the “Redeemer” Democrats, who already dominated other state governments in the South, took control. The exact terms of the agreement are somewhat contested as the documentation is insufficient.

Black Republicans felt betrayed as they lost power and were subject to discrimination and harassment to suppress their voting. By 1905, nearly all black men were effectively disenfranchised by state legislatures in every Southern state.

Gee, sounds right familiar like…

The 1876 United States presidential election was the 23rd quadrennial presidential election, held on Tuesday, November 7, 1876, in which Republican nominee Rutherford B. Hayes faced Democrat Samuel J. Tilden. It was one of the most contentious and controversial presidential elections in American history, and gave rise to the Compromise of 1877 by which the Democrats conceded the election to Hayes in return for an end to Reconstruction and the withdrawal of federal troops from the South. After a controversial post-election process, Hayes was declared the winner.

After President Ulysses S. Grant declined to seek a third term despite previously being expected to do so, Congressman James G. Blaine emerged as the front-runner for the Republican nomination. However, Blaine was unable to win a majority at the 1876 Republican National Convention, which settled on Governor Hayes of Ohio as a compromise candidate. The 1876 Democratic National Convention nominated Governor Tilden of New York on the second ballot.

The results of the election remain among the most disputed ever. Although it is not disputed that Tilden outpolled Hayes in the popular vote, after a first count of votes, Tilden had won 184 electoral votes to Hayes’s 165, with 20 votes from four states unresolved: in Florida, Louisiana, and South Carolina, each party reported its candidate had won the state
, while in Oregon, one elector was replaced after being declared illegal for being an “elected or appointed official”. The question of who should have been awarded these electoral votes is the source of the continued controversy.

An informal deal was struck to resolve the dispute: the Compromise of 1877, which awarded all 20 electoral votes to Hayes; in return for the Democrats’ acquiescence to Hayes’ election, the Republicans agreed to withdraw federal troops from the South, ending Reconstruction. The Compromise in effect ceded power in the Southern states to the Democratic Redeemers, who proceeded to disenfranchise black voters thereafter.

Democrats, wanting Blacks back on the plantation. What a surprise… /sarc;

And from the “Everything old is new again” department:

The Democratic strategy for victory in the South was highly reliant on paramilitary groups such as the Red Shirts and the White League. Using the strategy of the Mississippi Plan, these groups actively suppressed black and white Republican voter turnouts by disrupting meetings and rallies and even using violence and intimidation. They saw themselves as the military wing of the Democratic Party

Just change the names. “Red Shirts” to Black Block Antifa. “White League” to BLM militants. Everything else is the same. Disrupting meetings and rallies. Using violence and intimidation. Military wing of the Democratic Party.

Well, it didn’t work then. Let’s hope (and work for) it not working now.

And when folks holler at you that it is an UNPRECEDENTED!! thing, shout back “Rutherford B. Hayes!”

For what it’s worth, this kind of hung process food fight is exactly what the Electoral College is there to reduce, and the final arbiter of Congress to end. A direct vote of the people for POTUS would be a nightmare as you would have to recount every single ballot everywhere in a dispute (like right now…). A functionally impossible task, and absolutely impossible to do right and free of all fraud.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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27 Responses to Not Unprecedented: President Precedent!

  1. Another Ian says:

    Another historical “unprecidented”

    “If Churchill had Facebook & mainstream media to deal with”

  2. philjourdan says:

    If trump stops the steal, there will be no compromise. THere will be all out war.

    I am buying a gun this week.

  3. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    Doesn’t matter if Trump stops the steal or if Biden gets coronated.

    One case will be a street coup attempt with insurgency, the other will be a resistance with who knows what degree of resistance.

    I suspect few will need a gun. OTOH, those without a gun who needed one are toast.

    We’re headed into one of two cases, IMHO:

    1) Socialist Revolutionary Take Down of the USA from the inside. Likely to require a year or three to complete, so time to respond, but also possibly exploding early if 70 Million folks can actually get motivated to save their country from Marxism.

    2) Trump Redux. Marxist revolutionary riots and “resistance” movements (see Portland, Seattle, etc. for what to expect, but 10 x larger).

    The case that will not exist is “America as Usual – everything goes back to pleasant.”

  4. philjourdan says:

    The law is not doing anything. It is time for us to protect ourselves. With each demonstrated attack, that goes unpunished, they grow bolder. It does not matter if you just stay quiet- silence is violence. They will come for you.

    You are correct. It does not matter if the steal is stopped or not. They are coming for everyone.

  5. Tom says:

    Sherman put the torch to Atlanta to break the spirit.

    Reverse the sentiment and consider siege of the bastions of machine politics. Does anyone comprehend the problematic existence should the lines be cut. Though the proposed trucking strike has been postponed, it is one of the lesser of possibilities.

    Winter is coming—and perhaps it will bring interesting times to some lives. In China ‘May you live in interesting times!’ considered a curse?

  6. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Oh Dear,

    Recount finds loads of votes for Republicans, loses Democrat votes…

    Tim Pool @ BitChute:


    We KNOW the “Dominion” machines were buggered and set up to steal votes from Republicans / add them to Democrats.

    We MUST audit every election in EVERY State that used those machines.

  7. President Elect H.R. says:

    @Phil & E.M. – I am ready.

    I’m also very sad that at a minimum, one mother will be mourning the loss of her child.

    1:1, 2:1, 10:1… I will do my best. It may be necessary, but it still saddens me.

    (Mrs. H.R. will probably bake cookies for whoever takes me out, but that’s another story 😜)

  8. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    After 9/11 I was working in San Francisco. At lunch time, a friend of a few decades, and I, would walk around the area and talk. One thing we would do, being “security guys”, was to look at things and count up the risks.

    It was truly frightening to us how much we figured out to do in terms of disaster and mayhem. Then we’d figure out what was needed to prevent it…

    The worst bits were the “easy ones” to do, where we could find no “fix”.

    I won’t share any details (or even good hints on them) for obvious reasons. But let’s just say we figured out 2 unstoppable ways to drop a couple of bridges, and a trivial way to end the Bart Tube under the Bay (that did NOT involve explosives on a train…)

    Then there were the more “annoyance than disaster” things that were also trivial. Like just take a couple of semi-trucks of “hazardous materials” (or even something benign but with the hazmat symbols on the trucks) and have them have “accidents” on the ways in to the city. There’s really only 4 of them. 280 North. 101 North. Bay Bridge. Golden Gate. Takes 8 trucks and the city is cut off for most of a day or two. 16 trucks if you want to cut off outbound as well.

    And don’t talk to me about water and power lines…

    NYC has a giant aqueduct that keeps it in water. Think about what the loss of that “line target” would mean.

    The Democrats are mostly in cities. They are entirely dependent on that kind of stuff.

  9. cdquarles says:

    How many historical cities fell to sieges that cut off their trade, food and water? Add oil and gas to the list.

  10. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    There’s a key pipeline that runs from down at the Texas / Louisianna oil refineries, up the East Coast. It essentially feeds the energy needs of everything in between.

    Colonial Pipeline, headquartered in Alpharetta, Georgia, “is the largest U.S. refined products pipeline system and can carry more than 3 million barrels of gasoline, diesel and jet fuel between the U.S. Gulf Coast and the New York Harbor area.

    It went down for a few days after some event a few years back and the result was chaos all along it…

    I think it was this event I’m remembering (there have been others)

    In 2005, Hurricane Katrina knocked out power in large parts of Mississippi and Louisiana, forcing Colonial to operate at reduced flow rates. The company rented portable generators to help restore partial service as utilities recovered and restored normal service. When Hurricane Rita hit a month later, Colonial used these generators to help load product stranded in refinery storage tanks that did not have power.

    As folks familiar with war will know, a “line target” (rail, pipe, roads) is easy to take out of action as it covers a very long chunk of terrain that’s hard to defend, and all you need to is transect it. (So a 40 inch pipe needs only a 50 inch hole in the ground…).

    Fortunately, some “line targets” are easy to fix, too. A 50 inch hole in the ground only needs a few bucket loader scoops of dirt in it, then a 10 foot chunk of pipe welded in. (So welds are well outside any stress damage area of the 50 inch impact hole).

    There are LOTS of line targets on which cities depend. (Country not so much… more a square grid of trucking or local area facility like a local generation station or water purification plant. Though some of them can be so dependent. A Calpine local generation station uses natural gas via pipeline…)

    A curious one from my days planning “always up” services:

    There was a desire for multiple ISPs to have “zero downtime” for our web presence. Turns out the local Telco along with every other circuit provider then ALL had their fiber links to Southern California (from No. Cal) running through ONE big fat conduit hung on the side of ONE train bridge over a certain river. Run ONE train over that edge, all of them were down.


    Right of way. That was the only place where there was a clear right of way over that river. One train company had the line of dirt connecting. Everywhere else was a patchwork of ownership.

    A similar but smaller case was in No. Cal. A “major city” where there were just a few conduits through a rail line right of way from East to West. They owned all the dirt in the line path. You wanted to cross it, you bought passage through one of their cross conduits. (3 or 4 IIRC).

    I’m just glad it is mostly folks in data comms using the facilities who know about such stuff. I’m also glad that microwave connectivity has improved to where it isn’t that expensive to bypass such issues now (35 years later…) so hopefully they are now reduced a lot.

    Though towers bring their own issues. Like Sutro Tower:

    By having all the main Bay Area television station transmitters in one location, reception was improved by allowing a receiving antenna pointed in a single direction to receive all those stations rather than a subset.

    Want to knock out TV in the entire San Francisco area? One leg of one tower…

    (I’m only willing to mention it as, really, TV isn’t that important… In any real disaster we’d still have radio and that is much more useful as cars have radio while homes without power will not have TV anyway…)

    But the Point:

    Regular Life in major cities is dramatically dependent on just a few objects. Take them out, the city is just a dying decaying hell hole. The people who keep them going tend to be “Deplorables” and the people who protect them are the Thin Blue Line…

  11. philjourdan says:

    Working for a company that has redundancy over redundancy, we still have that “one pipe” problem in some offices! It is not the last mile, but it is a single point of failure (from the perspective of the physical plant being run through the same conduit).

    Of course when we bought the services from Company A and Company B, we were not told that. I doubt the sales staff knew either. It was just when the backhoe cut the cable that we found out.

  12. YMMV says:

    Line targets, towers?

    Icelandic movie, Woman At War, an ecoterrorist specializes in taking down electrical power transmission lines.

  13. cdquarles says:

    Oh, how well do I know about gas pipelines (natural gas and petroleum distillates). I live near two of them as well as one decent sized tank farm. I also live near electricity producers (two hydroelectric dams and one coal plant) and there are two major rail lines running near me, as well as one set of major US highways. Then there are airplanes. What you can see when you look down at it is pretty interesting. Water ports are a bit further away.

  14. Serioso says:

    I don’t believe the Presidential Transition Act of 1963 was in force in 1877, but who knows what arguments may be raised against me.,is%20formalized%20by%20their%20party.

    By the way, it isn’t just bureaucrats who think Biden won:

    Election Security Experts Contradict Trump’s Voting Claims

  15. philjourdan says:

    And the proof is where? Show us the proof it was not election fraud. If you cannot, you have no x-spurts. Just partisan hacks.

    Sydney Powell says she has released the Kraken. Have those x-spurts refuted the Kraken yet?

  16. Serioso says:

    In this country evidence comes first, then charges, then judges, then juries. We do no assume fraud: You do. Please stop [INSULTING PEOPLE, serioso.. -E.M.S.]

  17. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    You are simply wrong.

    Security is all about assuming fraud and crime, and then figuring out how to prevent it, or prove it didn’t happen.

    NOBODY says “Well, we’ll just leave the bank vault open at night, not lock the doors and never ever audit.”

    EVERYBODY says “We need locked vaults, locked doors, cameras and guards, then a full audit set to assure no insider is pocketing anything either.”

    Elections ought be no different.

  18. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    BTW, I think it was in another thread, but those “Experts” at DHS turned out to be a commission or committee where Dominion and Smartmatic were on it. Yeah, that’s the ticket, ask the Expert from the folks suspected of fraud if any fraud happened…

  19. YMMV says:

    Serioso: “In this country evidence comes first, then charges, then judges, then juries.”

    In theory. The theory doesn’t mention lynch mobs, neither the traditional nor the social media kind. The theory doesn’t mention character assassination, bullying, threats to witnesses, doxxing. I won’t list all the ways the legal system has been corrupted and incompetent. I’ve heard that half the guys in jail are innocent. I’ve heard that the guilty guys are out on the street. I’ve heard that if you are falsely accused, they will bankrupt you, get you fired, and threaten you until you confess. And drag it out for years and years. Hey, but that’s just suspicion, so everything is wonderful, best of all possible worlds, right?

  20. cdquarles says:

    That’s not suspicion. See: “Three Felonies A Day” and/or “Licensed to Lie”. “Justice”, in the USA, is a crap shoot now. Oh, ask Mark Steyn about it too; for the process is but one of the punishments.

  21. philjourdan says:

    Sorry Sorioso, I assume nothing. THe evidence is being presented. Ergo Fraud is real. Since fraud has been established (the magnitude has not been), now it is up to you to prove it is not fraud. Good luck proving that 118 year old dead people voting is not fraud.

    Ignoring the evidence is not proof there is no evidence. It is merely proof of denial.

  22. YMMV says:

    It’s hard to take Serioso seriously … but for everybody else, remember the start of this year? Two things. Covid and Iran shot down Ukrainian Airlines Flight PS752. Iran and all its experts immediately denied it, and persisted with that, even after videos of the rockets surfaced. And they did not want to give the black box evidence to anybody else. Iran has not yet released its final report. Families of the victims of that crash report receiving threats warning them against criticizing Iran’s response to the disaster: “enjoy your life before you get killed”.

    Different country, same evil. They said “It couldn’t happen here” and then it did.

    See also:

  23. beththeserf says:

    Prominent mathematician flags 100 000 Pennsylvania ballots.

  24. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Note that the Jesuits used to be relatively sane and were called “God’s Marines” as they had a rather, um, strict adherence to Biblical guidance… then…

    They were involved in a broad and complex list of activities, including the field of communications, social work, ecumenism, human rights, and even politics. In 1968 the Jesuit superior general, Father Pedro Arrupe, refocused the order with “a preferential option for the poor,” and the Jesuit ranks experienced a rise in the popularity of liberation theology, which holds that ministry should include involvement in the political struggle of the poor. This ideology influenced a number of Jesuit leaders in Latin America in the late 20th century, some of whom were met with violence and death because of their activism, and brought the order into conflict with Pope John Paul II, who sought to curb the movement with the appointment of conservative prelates in Latin America.

    Liberation Theology is, IMHO, just a re-expression of Socialist Ideals in a religious framework.

    The liberation theology movement gained strength in Latin America during the 1970s. Because of their insistence that ministry should include involvement in the political struggle of the poor against wealthy elites, liberation theologians were often criticized—both formally, from within the Roman Catholic Church, and informally—as naive purveyors of Marxism and advocates of leftist social activism. By the 1990s the Vatican, under Pope John Paul II, had begun to curb the movement’s influence through the appointment of conservative prelates in Brazil and elsewhere in Latin America.

    And now they’ve got The Big Chair in the The Big Church…

  25. YMMV says:

    Here’s another one for Serioso’s trust-the-experts logic.

    The UK government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) has got many things about the Covid-19 pandemic wrong, says Dr Mike Yeadon. He is an expert in allergy, immunology, and respiratory diseases, with over three decades of experience, including working as Pfizer’s vice president and chief scientific officer. Apparently his credentials amounted to nothing, though, when digital ‘censors’ at YouTube noticed that he was criticizing the prevailing narrative on the necessity of lockdowns.

    “Who you gonna believe, me or your own eyes?”

  26. YMMV says:

    If YouTube disappeared it, it’s worth putting in a link to it. The Mike Yeadon video about lockdowns is here: (Facebook)

  27. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Bitchute version of the Yeadon video too:

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