What We Know, What To Do, What Will Happen?

This is just “from memory” so lots of facts and detail will be left out. This is just the “big lumps” that left an impression. All of this is my opinion of events. My perception (but with a lot of factual experiences behind it).

What We Know

We know Biden is absolutely corrupt. The whole “fire the prosecutor” Quid Pro Joe in Ukraine. The $1.5 Billion in one shot to Hunter (where is Hunter anyway?). Loads of other $Millions including a few from Russia. He’s a Manchurian Candidate (literally…) being run by foreign actors.

We know Biden is suffering dementia. Perfect in a puppet as they just do what you tell them to do. They still know you give them money, and to say what you tell them to say. He’s leaked (as most with dementia do..) things that are supposed to be left unsaid. He has stated they had a Voter Fraud operation of extraordinary (Biblical?) proportions.

We know Trump, even with all the various Data Diddles going on, racked up more votes for POTUS than ever before and record votes from minorities.

We know that there is no way in hell Biden out performed Obama, especially in the minority and socialist left circles. He’s an “Old straight white man with racist history” (Eulogy at Clan Leaders much Joe?) No way he beat Obama.

We know that Trump won in all the key indicator States and places. Does anyone really believe that a giant voter surge happened in just the Swing States needed to win POTUS Prize and NOT in ALL the places with the best history of being right?

We know that the Dominion / Smartmatic combo is designed specifically to be “Diddle Friendly” (read the users manual where it says how) and is trivial to hack (see the reports from White Hat hackers saying it takes about a minute, a few more if you are low on skilz…). We have Forensic Hackers reporting that the equipment was visible on the internet and active on Election Night. We have their testimony that the software was busy Doing A Diddle all night long.

We have all sorts of statistics proving the votes recorded do not match human patterns of voting, but do match patterns of human fraud (Benford’s Law violations, dumps of multiple K ballots up to 100K all for Biden dead of night in a time period the machines are incapable of counting).

We know large number of Dead People voted. We know lots of folks had votes cast using their mail-in ballot when they testify they did not use it. We know “mail-in” ballots without creases (so how were they mailed?) were processed.

We know that that Republican Poll Watchers were physically ejected from the counting they were required to observe. We know they were harassed and threatened (testimony to legislature). We know this violates law. We also know that the folks hired to do the counting were mostly Democrats. (Testimony also). We know many were communist advocates (wearing BLM, a communist advocacy group per their web site, shirts, masks, etc.) known for intimidating others and for “might makes right” actions and known for shouting at and intimidating anyone who does not agree with them. We know it is a very bad idea to have the votes counted by Left Partisans without oversight.

We know the vote was strongly for Trump until in the dead of night, after closing the vote count and sending home the Republicans, a big dump of 100k scale votes almost entirely for Biden happened in just those States needed to stop Trump from winning. These were shown to arrive and be entered in just a couple of minutes in each State.

We know (from public forensic analysis of NYT timing data) that there was a very formulaic (algorithmic) distribution of votes throughout the day. This looks very much like it is using the “proportional voting” feature of the Dominion / Smartmatic system where can set one candidate, for example, to have each vote count as 1.75 votes and the other candidate has each vote count as 0.75 votes. Votes were displayed as fractional values (i.e. floats xxxx.xx) instead of integers, so clearly some kind of fractional math was being done on the totals.

There’s more, but you get it.

IMHO, this all shows that there is no doubt at all that voter fraud and counting fraud happened in this election, and on a massive scale, and last minute Hail Mary lumps of 100K scale were inserted in moments. A fraudulently stolen election is what we’ve got.

What To Do?

Right now, I’m just waiting for the Legal Process to run to completion. I’d like to see a “Do Over”. We know this election was screwed.

We can “try to fix it”, or we can “do over right this time”, or we can “hand it to the Legislature”. Any others?

Personally, I can’t see any way to “fix it”. The actual “who voted” is broken and we can’t un-mix them from the count. The count is grievously broken. Between truck loads of ballots arriving in the middle of the night when “counting was stopped” and being shuffled into the mix, and electronic counts being “diddled by design of the software” and all oversight being broken by driving out Republican watchers, I see no way to “fix” the count. Even a forensic audit can’t fix much of that.

A “do over” would require a couple of months to do (and replacing a LOT of people and equipment). No way you can get that right with Nancy P. Lousy as interim POTUS (and even that begs the question of how many of the House votes were diddled too, but not looked at yet… so is Nancy really still legitimate Speaker?)

Handing it to the Legislature is what’s in play right now. But highly Democrat dominated courts and executives are doing their best to “dirty up” that process and prevent it. (In theory there is also a “let the courts decide and fix it” process, but that’s screwed due to partisan judges at all levels).

What Will Happen?

Who knows. (And who ain’t talking…)

Will the Republican Legislatures of several key states just assign their Electoral College votes to Trump?

I heard an interesting one on Sebastian Gorka’s show: The Republicans in States that Trump clearly won, could simply refuse to send electors. Drop the total approved electors below the quorum needed to elect anyone. Toss it to the House to decide as the constitution requires.

Will the blackmail and intimidation (and maybe bribery too…) ramp up enough for the Buggered States to fold and send electors for Biden? Will they really think that’s going to work well for the nation?

In short, who will stand up and say this Election Has No Clothes and is a fraud, for the benefit of China, Russia, Communists and Socialists via their usual methods of “controlling who counts the votes”, intimidation, and bribery?

So “under the rug and whistle past the graveyard” or “stand and be counted” by either the Legislatures or We The People?

Who know how this will sort out.

One thing we can know: IF the Democrats get away with this Big Steal, with so much obviously corrupt and fraudulent, that’s the only kind of election you will have going forward. They will use the power handed to them by this fraudulent election to enact rules to assure all future elections will be just as fraudulent, but with better camouflage.

Obama brought The Chicago Method of voter fraud to the Nation, playing out now. It is a choice of “Fix that” or “live with it forever” as in Chicago. That’s my opinion anyway.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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50 Responses to What We Know, What To Do, What Will Happen?

  1. erl happ says:

    Looks like we are doomed to experience, ‘The Great Reset’. Unless there is a collapse in the financial system brought on by the intensification of policies that impoverish the majority. Then they default on their housing loans. That is what the Great Reset will accomplish.

  2. jim2 says:

    Nevada COURT hearing, rather than legislature hearing. I believe this is the one happening now.

  3. erl happ says:

    Todays News
    Great Aussie housing dream lives on
    The take-up of $1bn worth of HomeBuilder grants surges well ahead of initial forecasts and new home loan approvals hit record ¬levels.

    RBA unnerved by shock housing recovery
    Australian house prices are rising again after a pandemic-led scare in the property market earlier this year.

  4. President Elect H.R. says:

    Watching Georgia State Judiciary Committee live right now on OAN.
    I note, with the tips an and links about other hearings and proceedings, things are jumpin’ all over!

  5. philjourdan says:

    If he does get away with the steal, there will never be another fair election in this country again. Period. THis was a test run that went bad because of the margin of Trump’s win. But if they can get away with naked theft, they can get away with anything. And they know it.

  6. The True Nolan says:

    Hey E.M., “One thing we can know: IF the Democrats get away with this Big Steal, with so much obviously corrupt and fraudulent, that’s the only kind of election you will have going forward.”

    That is the unavoidable bottom line. This fraud is SO obvious, and SO pervasive that regardless of what the electors choose, or the State Legislatures choose, or even what the Courts decide, no one with two functioning brain cells will ever trust another election going forward, not unless there are major changes, absolute transparency, and massive arrests and trials and removal of the criminals who are trying to steal this election. Even if Trump remains in office nothing will have been fixed unless the system is changed, and the crooks are removed. Leaving either the system intact or the crooks in place will only delay election theft until the next election happens.

    It will probably not happen, but the only long term solution I can see is declaration of martial law, mass military arrests (vote fraud? insurrection? treason?) and tribunals, top down redesign of vote collection, counting and reporting, and a NEW election as quickly as safely possible. Anything else (even an official Trump win) is just a delaying tactic.

    I have NEVER been in favor of either martial law or revolution — but at this point, I do not think that there is any solution workable within the current corrupt framework. Between martial law and revolution, the martial law option looks the better of the two.

  7. YMMV says:

    “Will the Republican” — hold it right there. I hope we aren’t holding out any faith that a Republican will save us. We joke about RINO, Republicans in Name Only, but the joke goes flat when the name Republican no longer means anything at all, it’s the RINO party. Not all of them are Never-Trumpers, yet, but it doesn’t take too many fingers to count the elected Trump supporters. Tulsi is as good a Republican as most “Republican” politicians.

    On the Demo side, there are politicians who are in the news and those that make news. They have activists, those that not only want change, they are out to get it. Of course they have seat-warmers too, but tell me about the Republicans who are not just keeping their seat warm? Of all those who wanted to be president recently, only one (other than Trump) has not faded back into the woodwork.

    Republicans can list a lot of excuses, it wasn’t fair, blah blah, but only as an excuse to lose. What they can’t say is that they fought to win. To them it was just a game, when it actually was a fight for survival. There is no “next time”.

    (Don’t get me started on the Democrats)

  8. u.k.(us) says:

    The Georgia (yep, I had to google the spelling) elections might be the most closely watched thing ever :)
    Maybe we’ll learn something about vote counting ?

  9. jim2 says:

    The Nevada District Court in Carson City hearing has adjourned for the day. It will resume tomorrow morning. I BELIEVE the judge said 10:30 and I assume that’s Pacific time.

  10. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    It was a question: “Will the Republican Legislatures”… not an answer. When we get the answer we will know the Rino / Republican ratio…

    @The True Nolan:

    I’ve seen the calls for Martial Law and a “do over”. I can’t say I’m against it, but a question is who is POTUS during the process? Not Nancy, please. But would the Democrat 1/2 the nation accept a POTUS Trump into March?

    “Has Issues” comes to mind.

    From a Snarky POV, I note in passing that when a Democrat gets F-ed and doesn’t like the result, they demand abortion on demand. Well, if anything F-ed up deserves an abortion, it is this election…

  11. Nancy & John Hultquist says:

    I still think Trump will go, and Harris Biden will take over.
    Not what I want.
    Just what I see.
    And I don’t see Biden lasting 4 years.

  12. u.k.(us) says:

    I could be V.P. Elect too, not sure it would come with a cadre of Secret Service agents to save my ass in a poolhall though. ?

  13. President Elect H.R. says:

    Why not go all in, President Elect u,k.(us)?

    Until all of the Constitutional shalts and shalt nots play out, you’re just as much President Elect as anyone.

    Well, unless you are shooting for Grand Poohbah of The Compost Pile, just to lord it over Quail, Vice President of The Compost Pile. It could be an epic struggle whose tale would echo down through the ages. 😜

  14. jim2 says:

    I think we should treat the evidence so far as probable cause to execute a forensic audit on all voting machines and ballots in the swing states.

  15. Crashex says:

    This is the climax of the long term play by the globalists and socialists to destroy the US. It’s a WIN-WIN-WIN plan.

    Biden has the WIN based on the stated record of the votes and is playing out the role of victor with the support of a compliant media. If you go along to get along, Biden WINS and the new puppet is in place to push through those fundamental changes to maintain the big government socialist control over the US going forward. A couple new states, ramp up the benefits for a new flood of immigrants through open borders and its big government DEMs for as far as the eye can see.

    If Trump fights through the fraud to get to some unprecedented overhaul of the current vote counts, through the courts or legislative action, he will always be perceived as an illegitimate victor by the media and government bureaucrats. He’ll press on but have even more problems getting anything done due to the newly impowered Resistance^2 . So, a weakened Trump is a WIN too. If he resorts to using the military, “I told you he was a dictator” will be the main talking point for decades.

    And the real WIN; the historical acceptance of our elections as a indication of the will of the people toward the peaceful transfer of power to the various candidates that adopt the policies most important to the citizens. That’s been obliterated. No one will trust any US election for a generation. Regardless of the actual outcome of this cluster-F*** come February. Just like the globalists wanted. That will take the US down another peg or two.

    And the authoritarian control being exercised by all the DEM governors is a bit of foreshadowing, call it practice, for how the Harris administration will get everybody in line with the program.

  16. rogercaiazza says:

    I agree with all evidence pointing to the need for a complete audit in the swing states. What I don’t understand is why that it is taking the Trump team so long to demand it based on that evidence. Is it because that is happening and our friends at the MSM are just not reporting it.

    The other problem is that all the numbers in the world won’t convince the majority of the anti-Trumpers. I have family and friends that when confronted with numbers on, for example, climate change impacts, deny what the numbers are saying. You cannot win.

  17. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    ALL States, please….

    My ballot was stuck into a “reader” and a nice young lady watched me do it (and could see my vote…) as a “green light” lit up. Now I figured that was “read OK” but it seems in some places that means “Press the button so say this one is one to change” (or something like that…) as she leaned over and pressed some button…

    BTW, we were “encouraged” to use Sharpie Pens and I did and I watched it bleed through horrible…

    Total Popular Vote matters as does votes “down ballot” for Senator and House Representative.

    We need a 100% coast to coast forensic audit AND prosecutions AND imprisonments.

  18. Kneel says:

    IIRC, SCOTUS precedent that the beneficiary of electoral fraud is disqualified and the next best polling candidate wins regardless of any other requirement (270 EC votes for pres., >50% for house/senate as in some states).
    Depending on what is proven in various court cases (inc Sidney Powell’s ones), it may be possible to hand DJT the presidency and also flip the house and senate R, big time.
    It would certainly be appropriate, I reckon.
    And D’s would not try to cheat again for many years, I think.

  19. The True Nolan says:

    Hey VP Elect Smith! “I’ve seen the calls for Martial Law and a “do over”. I can’t say I’m against it, but a question is who is POTUS during the process? Not Nancy, please. But would the Democrat 1/2 the nation accept a POTUS Trump into March?”

    Who is POTUS? Stated bluntly, when the civilian government is non-functional, the man with the biggest gun is POTUS. I would presume Trump as Commander in Chief — but who knows? Maybe he would step down, recuse himself, and have Pence take over, or maybe appoint a military officer as temporary head. It has never happened before. Lincoln was similar, but not like this. Lincoln had MUCH more plainly defined lines and sides.

    But you ask, “would the Democrat 1/2 the nation accept a POTUS Trump into March?” To start, the entire point of this exercise is that they are NOT half. Without the vote rigging, maybe they are 40% — and of that 40% perhaps a quarter of them already agree that there has been major vote fraud. Of the rest, once the crooked news organizations, politicians and judges are arrested, who will be leading them? The fact is, considering the probable size of the fraud, MOST people voted for Trump and of them, MOST think the election is being stolen. Wouldn’t hurt to get more evidence put out in a way that even the hardcore Dems see it.

    Issues? You bet… nothing but issues everywhere you look. The ONLY good point about martial law is that it may very soon be the last route which (potentially) leads back to honest elections and representative Republic.

  20. DonM says:

    Video of apparent additional “after hours” vote tallying in Georgia.


    Chubby guy in red shirt has some explaining to do. Who did he call before they got to work? Incoming call or outgoing call?

    Will these same “workers” be there for senate runoff voting … and why not?

  21. DonM says:

    AND, why no surprise or discussion by anyone prior to the found boxes (suitcases) being “found”. Everyone knew they were coming and were getting prepared for the new vote tallies that were under the table.

  22. dancefloorbi says:

    @Kneel “IIRC, SCOTUS precedent that the beneficiary of electoral fraud is disqualified and the next best polling candidate wins regardless of any other requirement ”

    Except then someone can easily commit fraud for the other party to get that other party automatically disqualified.

  23. jim2 says:

    @V.P. Elect Smith – Yes, all states eventually. But right now, we need probably just a handful of large blue counties in the swing states submitted to forensic analysis. Let’s prove Trump is the winner, then go after all the other fraud.

  24. jim2 says:

    @Crashex – I don’t see it that way. If the election is overturned on legitimate fraud or other illegal activities not specified by a State legislature, then ALL of us in the US are winners. Our system of electing President will have worked when we needed it. Trump will be a winner. Belligerent dimowits, socialists, and communists in the US will be big losers. As will Soros and the rest of the globalist puke.

  25. p.g.sharrow says:

    My ballot was stuck into a “reader” and a nice young lady watched me do it (and could see my vote…) as a “green light” lit up. Now I figured that was “read OK” but it seems in some places that means “Press the button so say this one is one to change” (or something like that…) as she leaned over and pressed some button…

    BTW, we were “encouraged” to use Sharpie Pens and I did and I watched it bleed through horrible…”

    Everyone! have you had this experience this scenario ? This is a feature that causes the tabulator to save your ballot for the creation of a duplicate with the “right” votes on it. If you were a Trump voter it will be corrected to a Biden vote.
    My sister had this happen at her polling in Susanville. If you read the ballot’s instructions it said “use an ink pen,do not use a pencil or marker” The manual and the training for operation of the reader says Do not use a Sharpie. But opening day all the pens were replaced with boxes of “Sharpie” and the operators were instructed to “Make sure that the Sharpies only be used!”.

    Let us know if you were required to use a Sharpie. please.
    We need to know the place..pg

  26. p.g.sharrow says:

    all, better to drop your comment into my blog https://pgtruspace.wordpress.com/2020/11/26/vote-manipulation/ rather the here…pg

  27. Tom says:

    Run the PG&E playbook upon the cities with the most egregious voting issues this winter? How essential is electricity in the larger landscape of life? What did Joe mean by referring to a “dark winter? “Winter is coming.”

  28. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Blast from the past (Hillary vs Trump) may the past be prologue:

  29. David A says:

    “IF the Democrats get away with this Big Steal”

    The potential ifs, are horrible. They are already talking about a Cov19 vaccination card, and will pass laws regarding it’s use later. Social credit scores, forced vaccinations, monetary reset, etc.

    The monetary reset may happen regardless, it is how it happens that may be most important. When the trillion dollar plus China virus bailout 2 finaly passes, along with additional required, the US dollar international acceptance may actually have problems.

  30. President Elect H.R. says:

    @jim2 – It looks like some of your wish has come true.
    (Thanks for birddogging the links to the hearings.)

    You may have already caught this, but the Trump team has secured a Georgia machine and they have found where it switched votes from Trump to Biden.

    CTH comments are wonky after the move to a new platform, so this link will probably get to CTH, but maybe not to the comment by Sonia.


    There’s a link in her comment to Gateway Pundit that I’ll also post here.


  31. This apparently came out in Sept 2019, and is described as the battle plan for the 2020 election:

    Click to access 7_Foley%20(309-362).pdf

  32. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Trump’s speech, via FacePlant unfortunately:

  33. agimarc says:

    Via Scott Adams: Democrats packet-ized their fraud. One of the things the courts do is throw out election challenges unless the alleged fraud is large enough to overturn the election. What the dems did was commit a massive fraud with a wide array of techniques. Goal is to keep each chunk smaller than that needed to overturn but the total large enough to successfully steal. Think of TCP/IP for election fraud. Unfortunately, some of the states are close enough (AZ, NV, WI, PA, GA) that the chunks of fraud are large enough to individually overturn the election.

    And it looks as if the USPS union leadership was fully involved in this (PA truck driver), meaning it is time to repeal JFK’s EO allowing federal workers to unionize. This is something Trump can do on his way out the door (if that happens). Cheers –

  34. Serioso says:

    IMHO, most of what you “know” just isn’t true. You should read some real newspapers!

  35. YMMV says:

    “IMHO, most of what you “know” just isn’t true.”

    I know this is true.

    “You should read some real newspapers!”

    (Now that is funny! Even better, watch a talking head on TV news.)
    Result, ALL of what you “know” will be false-news.

  36. M Simon says:

    Executive Order 13848 – Sept 2018 – is in play

  37. M Simon says:

    Democrat plans overheard on the ‘Net. ==>

    Tribunals and meat hooks (What ever happened to Peace, Love, and Good Vibes?) You may have seen this before:

    Addiction is a symptom of PTSD. Says Nobel Prize Winner in Medicine Eric Kandel. Dr. Lonny Shavelson found that 70% of female heroin addicts were sexually abused in childhood.

    The origin of leftism is anger. The Democrat Party thrives on anger. And who is more angry than an abused child? The god of abused children is Satan (anger leads to the dark side). The politics of abused children is Communism. Stop child abuse.

    In other words Leftism is God’s curse for not protecting children better and then punishing them for pain relief.

  38. M Simon says:

    The True Nolan says:
    4 December 2020 at 2:32 am

    Ras (IIRC) has Democrat fraud believers at 30%. Repub at 75%.

  39. p.g.sharrow says:

    @MSimon; read your link, thumbs up on that. tried to drop that URL into a FB message to my sister and they censored it! removed it from the message. I guess they don’t want people to see the truth ?? Much of what the article discusses has been known from other sources but it is nicely laid out there….pg

  40. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Yeah, Naturalnews has been on the hit list for a while. Something about not buying all the Covid Crap and advocating for drugs known to work…

    I hope that what is in that story is true, but until I actually see someone being arrested and perp walked down the isle, I’m not holding my breath.

    We’ve had, what, about 3 years of “folks in high places committing blatant crimes” (Cough, Hillary, cough, Comey, cough, Brennan, cough….) and no one at all getting busted, or even inconvenienced much.

    So I’d love to see the whole scam brought down and off to trial. But until I see some indication it is actually happening, I’m not getting my hopes up.

    OTOH, if POTUS needs a rapid response Militia, I think there’s about 40 to 50 Million armed, on side, and available as they are not being allowed to go to work or do anything else. Anyone know if “Hunting Seasons” are being banned? That’s a lot of folks right there skilled and missing the hunt…

    But overall, my feelings are captured by “Facts not in evidence” for anything big hitting the fan… Subject to change at the drop of a Martial Law alert…


    But are those 30% Dems who believed Fraud happened decrying it, or applauding it?…


    Lucky for me, your opinion is worth all I paid for it… After all, you still think the New York Times has valid news in it. Even after 4 years of partisan tripe and Russia, Russia!, RUSSIA!!! fraud crap. After how many years of “Always Wrong” does a Grey Lady become a Grey Information Whore to her pimps & masters?

    BTW, if I could find any “real NEWSpapers” anymore, I would read them. There’s a few in India that seem pretty fair, but mostly they cover Indian centric issues. One in Israel was pretty good, but again, very Israel centered. UK, Canada, and Australia have joined the USA in being largely propaganda wastelands. Though some are bucking that trend, they tend to be minor upstarts. USA Papers have largely been bought up by the Astoundingly Rich & Left and turned into Partisan Advocates, leaving any real news in the dirt. (See Bezos and Washington Post as a prime example).

    But hey, you want to lay down with (female / lady) dogs, you get fleas:


    It’s far worse than I thought. In addition to the many links between the family that owns the New York Times and the Civil War’s Confederacy, new evidence shows that members of the extended family were slaveholders.

    Last Sunday, I recounted that Bertha Levy Ochs, the mother of Times patriarch Adolph S. Ochs, supported the South and slavery. She was caught smuggling medicine to Confederates in a baby carriage and her brother Oscar joined the rebel army.
    Adolph Ochs’ own “Southern sympathies” were reflected in the content of the Chattanooga Times, the first newspaper he owned, and then the New York Times. The latter published an editorial in 1900 saying the Democratic Party, which Ochs supported, “may justly insist that the evils of negro suffrage were wantonly inflicted on them.”

    Six years later, the Times published a glowing profile of Confederate President Jefferson Davis on the 100th anniversary of his birth, calling him “the great Southern leader.”
    He was her father’s brother and his name was John Mayer because he dropped the surname Levy, according to a family tree compiled by the Ochs-Sulzberger clan some 70 years ago.

    Mayer was a store owner and prominent leader of the small Jewish community in Natchez and, during the war, organized a home guard unit, according to family letters and historians.

    Neither the 1860 census nor its separate “slave schedule” lists the names of Mayer’s slaves. They are identified as two males, ages 70 and 26, and three females, ages 65, 45 and 23.

    That makes it likely that Mayer had slaves when niece Bertha lived with him for several years before she married Julius Ochs in 1853. Mayer and his wife had 14 children and were affluent enough that it would have been unusual if they didn’t own slaves, according to Robert Rosen, author of “The Jewish Confederates.”

    But hey, you love them, not me.

    Personally, I’d rather not get my “news” from former Slaver Families who supported the Confederacy and the Democrat position of the time that Black Suffrage was an outrage. But you do what you want…

  41. The True Nolan says:

    Hey M Simon “Ras (IIRC) has Democrat fraud believers at 30%. Repub at 75%.”

    If true, even if the numbers of Dem voters and Repub voters were equal, that still means that a majority of voters (discounting third parties) think the election was rigged. In fact, at any percentage of Republicans over about 45%, there are a majority of people who think the election was rigged.

  42. M Simon says:

    The True Nolan says:
    4 December 2020 at 10:33 pm

    Let us go to the source. https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/61_think_trump_should_concede_to_biden

    Forty-seven percent (47%) say it’s likely that Democrats stole votes or destroyed pro-Trump ballots in several states to ensure that Biden would win, but 50% disagree. This includes 36% who say it’s Very Likely and 41% who consider it Not At All Likely.

  43. u.k.(us) says:

    I’ve heard from a reliable source that .223 ammo is in short supply.
    Guess I’ll have to go to the .308 and let them get a bit closer.

  44. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    Um, the .308 is a heavier round that shoots further and flatter with less wind drift…

    The only advantage of the .223 over it is less ammo weight.

    In fact, I chose a Russian .30 caliber over the .223 for similar reasons (also figured ammo for an out of favor gun would not be subject to ‘runs’ as much ;-)

    FWIW, I diversified my stock of guns and calibers so as to be able to fire “whatever was available”… and that has worked out rather well.

    My one regret is not buying a Lee Enfield and practicing the Mad Minute with it… At one brief time there was an Indian make in .308 Nato at reasonable prices and I didn’t buy it. No longer made. The .303 British is no slouch, but not common here…

    Oh Well. I’ll just satisfy myself with a crate of 7.62 x 39 Russian ;-)

  45. u.k.(us) says:

    Less wind drift ?
    You mean less time to target ?
    Bullet shape ?
    I mean, the bullet is traveling thru a “fluid” , the air.
    I have a hard enough time holding the crosshairs on target, without judging bullet drop and windage :)
    It is all in the trigger pull, smooooooth.

  46. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    The .308 is a bigger fatter heavier bullet. It is a bit more resistant to the effects of a cross wind. So it “drifts” a bit less in any cross wind. Basically, it takes a bigger mass of air moving sideways to impart momentum to that heavier bullet and get it moving sideways too.

    The .223 comes out of the barrel faster and flatter, but again the lower mass “has issues”. So it slows down faster in a given distance. At longer ranges, the .223 has slowed down more and begins dropping more. The .223 is at it’s best under 100 yards. The .308 is still cooking a few hundred more out there…

    Time to target will vary with distance. At very short ranges, the .223 is faster, but nobody will notice. At very long ranges, the .308 will retain more velocity longer.

    A lot of that is highly variable depending on particular bullets you choose to use as there are some heavy weight .223 rounds and some light and fast .308 rounds (including sabot rounds) so consulting ballistic tables is your friend for anything outside ordinary NATO Ball ammo.

    Fundamental rule:

    The longer the shot, the bigger the caliber and the heavier the bullet you want to shoot. This is why the .308 is used in machine guns and why the .50 is used in very long range sniper rifles. It also means light weight small rounds like .223 are best close up and not so good at 400 yards.

    In short, your .308 Nato is a fine caliber, able to bring down “Deer sized animals” to a few hundred yards, along with pigs and bears, where the .223 can “have issues”. It will also shoot further with accuracy and retained energy at target. Just don’t expect to do a load out of 500 rounds and jog like the guy with the .223 and remember that under 100 yards he can hold on you and just keep ’em coming while you will be fighting more recoil with each shot.

    Given a choice, I’d go with the .308 Nato.

  47. u.k.(us) says:

    I’ve got a bolt action .222, no energy lost to loading of the next round.
    Set to hit 2″ high at 125 yards it will be 6″ low at 300 yards.
    Traveling at about 2100 fps (at 300 yards) you will feel it.
    I’ll stop now, don’t want to go down the rabbit-hole of bullet weight/powder charge/velocity…etc.
    It was fun :)

  48. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    I wasn’t denigrating the .223 or close cousins, FWIW. Just pointing out that if you want to drop a buck or bear at 400 yards, a heavier round is really a good idea. Some states let you hunt deer with .223, others not so much. It is marginal at best on the bigger deer species.

    Folks have dropped bear with handguns. A .223 beats a handgun. (Unless you are off in the land of exotics…) So you can do it. But it’s easier with a .308 or larger. (Ignoring that black bear are much smaller than Grizzlies and Polar Bear and folks tend not to say what kind of bear was shot with the .357 Mag. when relating how great it is… ) Don’t get me started on pigs… (I’ll just note in passing that we have PigZilla here in the mid-west. Hybrid wild Russian boar and domestic pigs that range up to pony size with attitude and a thick gristle plate / skull. Not the same as what you might need to shoot in other places. Our California feral pigs are about 100 to 200 lbs and bad enough.) I’d rather face PigZilla with a .308 and 200 yards away than with a .223 and 50 feet, but I’d be glad to have the .223 over a handgun… The .357 Magnum can be “marginal” and require multiple shots…

    Spin drift on the .223 military is about 11 inches, for the military .308 about 7 inches. But frankly, the odds of my shooting something far enough away to have that show up is near nil. It’s a factoid, but not very useful to folks other than snipers. Still, it just is.

    So my point was just that for me, here, with these populations of animals, and my tendency to not waste ammo on shots that will miss: I’d rather have the .308 and heavier ammo than the .223 and lots of “spray and pray”… Then again, my personality attracts me more to sniping far away than marching line…

    Oh, and a reality check-in:

    In reality, I live in a suburban area. Any “combat” would be better served with a handgun, shotgun, or .223 at the most. All short range and with over penetration issues in all directions. That, and the fact that I don’t have any desire to murder Bambi, is why I don’t own either a .223 or a .308 NATO. No real use case for me.

    I’m actually more likely to use a .22 LR or 9mm than anything else. So the whole .223 vs .308 is just not relevant for me. (Now if I lived on a Farm in Texas… I’d want both. The .223, though the .222 is better, for ‘varmints’; and the .308 NATO for anything really big and far far away that showed up – like PigZillas…)

    Domestic pig in a fenced hunt (image makes pig look bigger than it’s 9 feet as the kid who shot him is standing back a ways):


    Feral cross:

  49. u.k.(us) says:

    Guess I’m not done.
    First time I ever saw reality in a movie was in “The Way of the Gun”.
    They were sniping from ~500 yards out, you watched the bullets tearing into flesh, then you heard the gun report 2 seconds later. The bullets are traveling 3 times the speed of sound, which seems to confirm “it is one you don’t hear, that kills you”.

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