Do Lockdowns & Business Limits Constitute “A Taking”?

When the government takes your property, such as in Eminent Domain for a new freeway, it is considered “A Taking” and you are entitled to “just compensation”.

All over the country, businesses are being shut down and run out of business by government edict. Essentially taking away their business and destroying their equity. Ending their business.

My question is a simple legal one: Is the destruction of a private business by government edict “A Taking” which requires “Just compensation” from the Government?

I think it does. Perhaps a few million lawsuits filed would clarify it…

Interesting example in the inset video of a Bar & Grill owner in L.A. in this Tim Pool video:

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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25 Responses to Do Lockdowns & Business Limits Constitute “A Taking”?

  1. cdquarles says:

    I agree that it is, so the HEROES Act money was somewhat justified this way, despite the political games that were, and are, being played.

  2. p.g.sharrow says:

    Might be a good Idea with the new Court of Constitutional law. A number of years ago the Roberts controlled court determined that Local governments could take your property or the use of your property, first for any use, then offer compensation. In the case of property use right, as long as your are allowed to pay taxes for the ownership, they owed you no compensation for any loss of use. pg

  3. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Tony Heller has a nice collection of Forbidden Videos on his NewTube site ;-)

    Singing about where to put your vaccine in the UK…

  4. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Oh God, this one is a hoot. Bill Gates animation of “we know better”

  5. philjourdan says:

    It is for the courts to decide. But my uncle did file a similar case. When they took part of his property for a road, it left the lot size too small to rebuild in the event his house was destroyed, so he sued on the basis that they had deprived his house of resale value.

    While it was the State that took his land, the final settlement was the land was rezoned by the county so that the house could be rebuilt on less than 1 acre.

  6. philjourdan says:

    ANd yes, I think it is violating the constitution and that is what the restaurant owners should sue on now.

  7. Compu Gator says:

    I’ve noticed shortages of items of food & drink bought by people of limited means at “convenience” stores and “dollar” stores, where the latter have recently undertaken substantial investments in refrigeration units to expand their spectrum of retail food items:

    β€’ SPAM, presumably made from animal parts that I really don’t want to think about, in Minnesota.

    β€’ Industrially brewed cheap beer that has tolerable taste, and is economically bearable for ad libitum consumption during the pandemic [🍺], all brewed (per the cans) in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

    I suspect/fear that I could find many additional examples.

    Which of their states of origin are part of the national Democrat machine that’s eager to impose lockdowns, hmmm?  Locked-down workers, so no production, no income!, no business! And no wages for even the most loyal of workers. Shouldn’t both consequences be considered de facto takings?

    Note 🍺 : I’d rather be drinking Anchor Steam thro’ all of this postelection season, but altho’ the tastes are not even close, the corresponding price is not even close to being economically viable/sustainable on my income.

  8. President Elect H.R. says:

    @Compu Gator who who wrote:

    “β€’ SPAM, presumably made from animal parts that I really don’t want to think about, in Minnesota.”

    OMG! That made me laugh.

    a) Parts is parts (Can’t remember who, but a competitor of Colonel Chickee made an ad about unrecognizable chicken pieces in a bucket. Very unflattering to the Colonel, but also very funny!)

    ii) If you weren’t in Minnesota, would you think about Spam then? 😜 /grammar police 😁
    Re Anchor Steam… That is probably my all-time favorite beer. It was America’s first micro-brewery before there was ever such a thing as micro-breweries.

    In the mid-’70s it was listed as the smallest commercial brewery in America and you were lucky to score a six-pack of it as you moved away from San Francisco in concentric distribution circles. I think their production was something like 5,000 barrels per year.

    I would have been dead of alcoholism years ago if they had wider distribution. Awesome brew!

    You, sir, are a man of exceedingly good taste and exceedingly good taste buds. πŸ˜‰ Salute!

  9. President Elect H.R. says:

    Anchor Steam Beer… makes me wanna sing! (Cover your ears)

    β™―β™«β™ͺ I want a beer just like the beer

    That pickled my old man! β™ͺβ™«β™ͺ

    β™«β™ͺβ™ͺ It was the only beer, really only beer

    That daddy ever had.β™ͺβ™«β™ͺ

    Rich and creamy with lots of foam!

    it took six men to carry dad home! β™ͺβ™«β™ͺ

    β™―β™«β™ͺ Oh, I want a beer, just like the beer that pickled

    My. Old. M-a-a-a-n…! β™ͺβ™«β™ͺ


    “I’ll be here all week. If you’re staying, try the veal.”

  10. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    I believe it says right on the can… let me check… Nope, now it says “Pork with Ham”…

    Somewhere, somewhen, I saw a description that said it was made with pork shoulder.

    Ah, here:

    That recipe, using pork shoulder (once considered an undesirable byproduct of hog butchery), water, salt, sugar, and sodium nitrate (for coloring) remained unchanged until 2009, when Hormel began adding potato starch to sop up the infamous gelatin “layer” that naturally forms when meat is cooked. According to Behne, the recipe change was purely an aesthetic choice: “It looks a lot better now when you open the can.” The rest, Hormel insists, has remained the same.

    Though earlier in the article they note:

    For a six-ingredient food product, it’s taken on a life of its own. Spam β€” the square-shaped mash-up of pork, water, salt, potato starch, sugar, and sodium nitrate β€” recently celebrated its 77th anniversary of being alternately maligned, celebrated, musicalized, or the subject of urban legend (one particularly pervasive myth insists that its name is actually an acronym for “Scientifically Processed Animal Matter”).

    and lower down:

    Although lore behind the name Spam varies, Hormel himself claimed the product was named for a combination of the words “spice” and “ham,” despite the fact that neither ingredient appears in Spam. The confusion has led some to speculate that Spam is an acronym for “Shoulder of Pork And Ham,” but company line gives Kenneth Daigneau, the brother of a Hormel VP, credit for naming the product. As Hormel tells it, he launched a naming contest for the new product during a New Year’s Eve party, when Daigneau spit out “Spam” as if “it were nothing at all,” Hormel told Gill. “I knew then and there that the name was perfect.”

    I note in passing that the present can label does say ham is in there to some degree. Most likely as it is easier to process the shank bits of the ham that the home shopper no longer wants (but that make GREAT ham and beans if you can find a whole ham and cook it…)

    Also note that those SPAM copy / knock off brands may have god only knows what’s in it… Some include poultry exuded from “mechanical separation” (also known as ‘red goo’ to some).

    Near as I can tell, a lot of why proper SPAM tastes better than the alternatives is that they DO use decent bits of pork (and ham, now).

    FWIW, Walmart house brand is pretty darned close, and may be packed by Hormel for all I can tell ( IF I had a can I’d compare the factory codes from the zebra stripe, but I don’t so I can’t so I won’t…)

    “Fiesta Brand Luncheon Meat – Fiambre De Cerdo” lists “Pork, salt, water, sugar, sodium nitrite” as ingredients and is pretty good too. Not as good as SPAM, but close enough. It still has the “more gelatin” effect of pre 2009 SPAM as it lacks potato starch. I got it at the local Marina Asian Market, IIRC. Made in the USA and packed for Fiesta Mart of Houston Texas.

    Other copy / knockoffs I’ve tried have ranged from uninteresting to “Here puppy puppy puppy…” Especially one that was $1 at Dollar Store and was some bastard mix of chicken, pork, and who knows what…

    Oh, and just for completion, while not SPAM, there are two nice small 1 pound canned hams that run a bit over $2 or a bit under $3:

    Royale in a red can, and DAK in a white / blue can. Walmart and some other stores tends to carry them. With a can of green beans and a can of yams, you can have a darned nice Prepper Dinner that’s all “Heat and eat”. (Yams best if drained, then simmered with brown sugar and butter put in the pan. The sugar will pull water from the yams and make a nice sweet sauce.) Add a slice of bread and butter and it’s heaven… One of my favorites, and far far better than anything in a freeze dried or MRE pouch. Oh, and keeps a few years…

    I think I put something like a dozen of them in the pantry at the start of this. We have one about once a month… SPAM was a few dozen. Still working to get it under a dozen in inventory… I intended them as “uplift” for the beans, but have not made as much beans as expected…

  11. David A says:

    Fortunately I am retired, as my industry, trade shows / Conventions, is more then decimated. So far it is gone. As a General Foreman I hired and trained hundreds of people. There are only two left with jobs, one part time, one who is now management. ( I hired and trained them both) Just in San Diego, Los Angeles , and Orange County, this is thousands of jobs, gone. Teamsters, Decorators, carpenters, electricians, Display builders, stage hands, riggers, etc… Plus meeting planners, thousands of hotel employees, thousands of airline jobs, all gone. Hotel management ( those that are left) now manages themselves, as they book and serve the few customers they have. And this is all across the nation.

    The San Diego convention center is now a giant homeless shelter. Same in LA, not sure about San Francisco and other cities. (Good luck booting them out.)

    So there is virtually zero money going into my pension.
    Is that a taking?

  12. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    @David A:

    I think it does count.

    There’s also a whole slew of secondary jobs from the convention / trade show industry. I worked a few shows for various companies. Needed: Hotels, cabs or parking attendants, breakfast, lunch, dinner, telco support, shippers and likely a few more things I’ve forgotten. Oh, and sometimes laundry service… Come to think of it, while I was there to pitch a tech product, I also was doing on site tech support for my company, but I’ll be other folks had hired tech support folks.

    I’m sure the bar bill was pretty hefty too ;-)

  13. Re Spam: We had Spam growing up, but sometimes when money was tight, we switched to Armour’s Treet, which we called “the poor man’s Spam”. I think it had more filler and less ham, and the texture was slightly different. It’s been a while since I’ve had either, but I remember preferring Spam.

  14. David A says:

    Thanks EM, yep, lots of connected jobs, somebody build all those displays, large companies have multiple displays from small 20p sq’ booths to 10,000 sq’ booths. A large show may have 5 million pounds of freight shipped all over the nation. That freight is stored in warehouses all over, now sitting idle. The major contractors have 30 plus warehouses each, all over the Country. Hundreds, thousand of truck driving Jobs gone.
    Bus drivers shuttling attendees to hotels all over town. Miles of truss, 1/2 ton motors, and lighting all idle.
    Tons of extruded aluminum for modular display system. ( Most has been scrapped) Convention center staff and Hotel employees all over, laid off. This will not restart quickly.

    As always, a big thanks for all your input, oh and my link to the millions on the road to starving was indeed deserving of your response which reflected what I often think of ZH.

    However I went back to reread the article I had previously just glanced at. To my surprise it fundamentally affirmed your assertion of human error would be the sole cause of any such disaster if it occurred…

    ” Lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never, ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer,” Nabarro said in October.

    In May, UNICEF predicted that in 118 low and middle-income nations, 1.2 million children under the age of five could die in the following six months because of the surge of declining access to medical care β€œdue to lockdowns, curfews and transport disruptions.”

    One must also consider that economic collapse can easily lead to wars. So there is no doubt that lockdowns for what is essentially a bad flu with unusual complications, is, at best, stupendously stupid.

  15. Steve C says:

    There’s plenty of corona collateral damage over here in the UK. Several large businesses have vanished this year, the latest to collapse being Debenhams, established 240+ years, last week. And in Nottingham, the local council is getting in on the act too: our City Council is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy:

    Their involvement in projects like “Robin Hood Energy” (guess what colour their electricity was!) has cost plenty, and they have proved themselves ready sponsors of green lunacy in general, though mercifully not to quite the same extent as Brighton. It may be relevant also that the Council has been run by Labour (nominally socialist, practically globalist, usual mixture) for about a half century with little opposition, so they really can’t blame anyone else for this.

    [Side note: When I first came to Nottingham in the late ’60s, the situation was different. On the wall of the cemetary opposite the Arboretum, someone had daubed, in b-i-g white letters (though I’ll spare you the capitals), “Cordeaux Must Go Vote Labour” (the said Cordeaux was a Conservative councillor of the time, so no friend of Labour). The Council scrubbed it out quite quickly … but the slogan reappeared a few weeks later. This happened several times. OK, quite a lot of times. I did hear a rumour that the local police had put out an appeal to the effect that, if the perpetrator would just get in touch and tell them how he’d done it, they wouldn’t prosecute. It did eventually disappear, so I guess he did so. A pity. Potentially useful knowledge compromised!]

  16. Compu Gator says:

    I’ve placed my next comment on beer, in the sense of drinking it for its taste and other enjoyment, over in the current (17 November) W.O.O.D. [*], so it doesn’t clutter the important discussions of jobs, factory production, and related services & facilities in this topic.

    Note * :

  17. V.P. Elect Smith says:


    I think I read it last night / early this morning. Didn’t disagree with it particularly, but also not a big dark beer guy either, so not much to add one way or the other. I’d have suggested Gordon Biersch Martzen but the bottled stuff is just different from the On Tap that I really like. So not pertinent to anyone not near the breweries.

  18. Compu Gator says:

    Here in Central Florida, the mainstream business news, esp. as delivered by t.v. & radio, is focusing on activity in the more-or-less local stocks, e.g.: Disney, whomever owns Universal-Orlando nowadays, and the airlines; less so on the abundant hotel chains. Practically none on genuinely local businesses. Deep lay-offs began to occur months ago, and seem to be continuing for all.

    I don’t recall anything ever having been said about the convention biz, except for lamenting the reduction of events at the Orange County [🌴] Convention Center. Maybe their editors can’t see any businesses that aren’t listed on the NYSE?  No mention of the ordinary people whose employment depends on it. I wonder how a local printer focused on point-of-sale advertising is faring; I worked for it back when Fed-Ex ranked it as 2nd largest in shipping volume in Central Florida [🚀]. Then the effects of the 2001 terrorist attacks rippled thro’ the U.S. economy, causing a deep plunge in the advertising/marketing-printing business, and only its business from Latin America kept it afloat, but I was laid off. I’m sure glad now that a particular family member left the local convention-display biz several years ago.

    “Our” blue county government can’t resist spending more and more money to expand its convention center, which remains the 2nd largest in the U.S.A. [🌵]. This follows the local philosophy, promoted by the tourism-real-estate complex that controls the governments of the county and its metropolitan city, that (if) growth is good, more growth is even better. Hereabouts, it’s heresy to point out that it’s identical to the philosophy (so to speak) of the cancer cell.

    Note 🌴 : Orange County in Florida, for readers who’ve become bleary-eyed trying to keep up with the rate of new postings & comments in Chiefio.

    Note 🚀 : Martin-Marietta, now Lockheed-Martin, was the largest locally for Fed-Ex. I wouldn’t be surprised if it still holds that ranking.

    Note 🌵 : Largest convention center in the U.S.A. continues to be in Las Vegas (a place I’ve never had even the least interest in visiting), no matter how much Orange Co. (Fla.) government spends on expanding its own.

  19. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    Las Vegas used to be kind of fun about 25 years ago. Last time I was there, 2 years ago? (driving through) it was an over crowded over lit traffic jam with casinos.

    IF you get way out to the north end of “the strip” you can still find some of the old style quasi-family friendly smaller casinos with a nice restaurant and bar that’s just comfortable. Trip notes from that trip (before the last trip):

    At that last trip I decided I’d not bother with Las Vegas again. They’ve made using your brain a crime (card counting) and you are 100% tagged, tracked and on camera all the time and a dossier created on you. Don’t lose enough, you get “escorted” out.

    What’s the point?

    It is no longer “gambling”, it is just a money extraction racket.

    Next they will make it illegal to know the odds of bets at the craps table… /sarc;

    So where, a few decades back, I’d be saying “Go, it’s a good time” now it’s “Not really worth the bother. IF driving by, take a look at it, but don’t stay more than one night, if that.”

    About 30 years ago we stayed at Circus Circus with 2 kids. It was fun. Not too much traffic to get the car in / out. Hotel was cheap. Kids liked the Circus stuff. Buffet was OK and cheap (needed for a young family). You could actually play blackjack, not just be subjected to a brain audit and be dealt cards from a 10 deck shoe.

    Now not so much. Prices are up, fun is down, and losing is guaranteed.

    Oh, and last time I looked, the absolutely great all you can eat Sea Food Buffet at Harrah’s was gone. After skiing (again about 30 years or maybe 40 ago) my buddy and I would go there and have a great dinner for relatively cheap. Usually dropped $20 on the tables in the process (my set “bank” then, if I doubled I stuffed $20 back in the pocket and it was never to come out until home, if lost, I was done.) and all was good.

    All you can eat nice steamed clams, crab legs, etc.

    First they raised the price high enough to be a bother, so my $20 no longer went to the table. Then, some years back at least, it was gone. Don’t know if they ever brought it back.

    So for that “moment in time” when they were trying out “Family Friendly” and using hotel room and food as “loss leaders” it was nice. Now it’s “All about the Whales” who drop $100k in a night, and you are irrelevant (unless you win something, then it’s “you are banned forever” in the book they all share among casino owners. No, I’ve never won that much.)

    But really, what bothered me most was just how crowded, noisy, and “in your grill” it was. North Shore Tahoe or even South Shore Tahoe is much “nicer”.

  20. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    A bit “new age touchy feely” for my tastes, but seems to have interesting news and shows the references / news articles:,-British-Cabinet-under-house-arrest,-Georgia-lawsuit,-Ballots-buying-from-china–Pentagon-firings,-Trump-bringing-back-firing-squads,-choosing-your-timeline-with-your-actions—More!:8

    The “British Cabinet House Arrest” seems a bit beyond reality to me, but the news articles showing a German City and Portugal rulings against masks and lockdowns seem genuine.

    It’s fun even if sometimes maybe a bit off in “unlikely” land…

    Thing you run into on the uncensored sites when they randomly suggest videos ;-0

  21. V.P. Elect Smith says:

    I’ve had to run some errands and am finally getting to finish that video link above (3D 5D) There is an interesting assertion that the “watermark” is translucent (i.e. real water mark) on the real ballots but a sort of grey on the fake ones. (like it was printed not actually watermarked?). Then a video, in Chinese, of someone ordering fake ballots and discussing the print / paper difference issues. IFF that is correct and proven, that’s a HUGE thing. About 27 minutes.

  22. philjourdan says:

    Re: Calculating Odds at Craps

    Or really any of the non-card games. It is not rocket science. It is simple math. While your comment was made in jest, humor has to have an element of truth to it in order for it to stick. And that is a shame. You are correct about the Casinos having no soul, just a machine to extract money.

    I use to work the craps tables at gaming events (difference: Not played with real money). It was fun and most folks had a good time even if it was only play money. But the vast majority of them are math impaired. Since we were playing with funny money – and usually high dollar chips, we “smoothed” the odds so that we did not have to worry about paying 7-6 odds with 1, 5, 10 or 25k dollar chips. (kind of hard to pay off 7-6 on $1k when the lowest denomination you have is $500). The real gamblers, once figuring out the odds were smoothed, played the odds that favored them! And enjoyed it for a change.

    But playing with the math impaired was boring. They played the field and sometimes the pass line. But never the come and never backed up their bets.

  23. cdquarles says:

    I flew out to Vegas back in the 90s with wifey. It was one of those cheap middle-of-the week affairs. Didn’t take much, didn’t spend much, didn’t lose much. Gambling joints closer to me are a lot better than that trip was; other than seeing the display of old money in one of the downtown joints. I’ve been to Atlantic City, too; and spent some time in a Trump property. Local dog/horse track was much better. I am now on a very tight budget and can’t afford to spend/lose money gambling; so I don’t.

  24. cdquarles says:

    Should I add the remark that flying into Vegas could have you fly by Area 51? ;p

  25. philjourdan says:

    @CD – I am with you. I work too hard for my money to waste it gambling. Plus, I did work the “tables” so know the real odds. Best table is Craps. Worst is the Money Wheel, followed by Roulette. But the House has the odds in all cases.

    Here’s an example. BlackJack. Say you bust, you lose. Period. But if the dealer busts, you still lost even though technically it is a push. Because when you bust, the dealer has not drawn a card yet.

    I will keep my money, but anytime you are up for a game of penny poker, count me in! I do not mind playing for change.

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