I have a dilemma / conflict.
On the one hand, I believe in letting every polite voice be heard.
On the other hand, my philosophy of “Be The Mirror” in a banning world says to ban.
On the one hand, being challenged with bits of sand in the gills can lead to pearl construction.
On the other hand, why put up with shit? Vote the problem off the island.
I’m in a state of personal dynamic balance. Also known as fence sitting. And, as straddling a fence is not that good for folks (or parts of folks in any case…): I need to get off the fence.
So I’m proposing that y’all get to vote on what I get to do. One vote per person.
The topic is Serioso. Is he worth keeping around as sand in the gills, or do you folks want to vote him off the island? Serioso gets no vote, and I’m the sole decider at the end anyway.
Many of you may have missed it (or not missed it at all and just avoided looking at it ;-); but Serioso was endlessly reposting a NYT link to a “timeline” article of the Troubles at the capital. I’d just gotten home from a Grand Marathon Trip of about 7600 driving miles in 2 weeks and was pretty much drained. Being expedited on something that would take a good chunk of my time to “illustrate the crap in it” was not high on my priority list. “Irritated” more than sand… but eventually I DID post my ‘rebuttle’ to the NYT crap. I’ll reproduce ONE of the 4 comments / reply to the Serioso stuff.
Quoted in full. Note my long and detailed analysis of the NYT spinmatic propaganda content, embedded into his comment as he was in Moderation Jail:
15 January 2021 at 5:33 pm (Edit)
I am confused. You asked me for a more accurate timeline of the events in the Capitol. I thought I provided you with just that, on two separate occasions. As far as I can tell, you deleted both posts. Here it is once again. I think this is a useful for everyone to see.
Reply: From Here On Down -E.M.S.:
First off, the NYT has gone fully Left Partisan. Your insistence on them as some kind of truth teller is naive at best. But that aside, Let’s look at the various bits they spin up.
The footage shows the simultaneous and alternating perspectives of Mr. Trump at the podium, the lawmakers inside the Capitol and the swelling numbers — and growing violence — of the rioters on the ground.
First off, pretty much everyone was on site by about 8 AM. There were no “swelling numbers” after the initial fill-up of the place first thing in the morning. (I was part of it and can assure you, by about 8 AM there was no space left in the Ellipse area all the way past the Washington Monument)
Second, there was no “growing violence”. Everything at the Ellipse, where Trump was speaking, was ENTIRELY 100% peaceful through the end of his speech. At the Capitol Building, near as I can tell from other reports of people who were there, nothing much happened until after noon when some Antifa / BLM Agent Provocateurs managed to goad some Useful Idiots into mounting the Capitol Steps (hardly a violent act in itself) and breaking into the building (that video shows was instigated by an Antifa guy – identified as such by photos of him at Antifa events – breaking a door with a helmet) that WAS violent, but very limited in scope.
Then they label with “rioters on the ground” without any attempt to identify SIZE / Number or WHO they were. Out of something that looked like (and was described as) well over 100,000 folks, you have MAYBE 100 ish on the steps and a couple of dozen inside the building. Why not point that out, eh? WHY try to paint the VAST MAJORITY who were peaceful family types as “rioters” when they were not? SPIN for effect, that’s why.
Note we’re not even through the first sentences of their piece and it’s already smelling like trash spin for effect. This is what you quote and think is valid evidence?
A Brewing Storm
Yet MORE lies and spin. Again *I WAS THERE*. There was no “brewing storm”. It was a party like atmosphere. Smiling faces. Polite people. Lots of cooperation and sense of hopeful expectations. Folks were largely in a party mood.
Now I can’t speak to the Antifa / BLM infiltrated and perhaps organized group on the Capitol Lawn, I could see them being cranky. BUT, that’s a very tiny number compared to the huge crowd that covered all the way from the ellipse past the Washington Monument to the Mall. THOSE were the real Trump Supporters. Look at photos of them. Smiles, families, fun people having a good time. (I have more such photos)
For weeks, Mr. Trump had urged his supporters to go to Washington to stop the certification of the election results, and several simultaneous rallies were planned for Wednesday.
As the morning arrives, hundreds assemble on the Capitol lawn, more than a mile away from where Trump will soon speak near the White House. Among them are the Proud Boys, a far-right group, identifiable here by their orange hats.
Yet more garbage spin. Trump was NOT asking folks to “stop the certification”, he was asking folks to ‘certify the legal ballots and audit the illegal ones’. HUGE difference.
Do you REALLY support the blatant FRAUDULENT ballots being counted? Do you REALLY think it is a good idea to accept a count based on corrupted machines? Shown to be corrupted by what limited audits have been done?
Then, the Proud Boys are NOT a “far right” group. They do hold some traditional values, but mostly just want their members to be honest with themselves and do what’s right. The painting of them as “far right” is propaganda spin from The Left. Just like calling them ‘Racist’ is. Their leader being Afro Caribbean and having lots of Black and Hispanic membership.
BTW, I’ve seen no evidence what so ever that the Proud Boys were wearing orange hats. They never have in any prior video I’ve seen of them at other events. That, at this point, is at best a bald assertion, unsupported. We do know that many BLM and Antifa folks where doing a False Flag and wearing Trump gear (or what they thought it was) as some have already been arrested. So just HOW can NYT know who those folks are wearing orange knit caps? No evidence involved…
We do get occasional glimmers of truth in the NYT hit piece, but scattered in such as way as to hide the meaning:
At the same time, near the White House, Donald Trump Jr. films the president and his inner circle backstage before his father’s speech. In a video uploaded to his Facebook page, they are listening to the song “Gloria” and marveling at the size of the crowd.
Juxtaposed with the “asserted Proud Boys” and conjoined with “far right wing” pejorative above, is this text that shows in fact Trump was 1.8 to 2 MILES away with the Big Crowd.
Why not point out Trump was nowhere near the Capitol Building, and any incipient Troubles? Why not point out that the vast bulk of Trump Supporters were in that Big Crowd and it was full of happy peaceful people? Spin, that’s why.
Then it goes way off the rails:
Trump calls for march on Capitol.
A large crowd heads in that direction.
About 15 minutes into his speech, Mr. Trump tells rally attendees to walk to the Capitol. “You have to show strength,” he says.
At this moment, the Capitol grounds are protected by temporary perimeter fences, and there are few officers equipped to defend them.
First off, they have the time wrong. Second, missing context (a classic propaganda ploy).
Here’s the actual first occurrence of “show strength” in context:
Donald Trump: (16:25)
Our media is not free. It’s not fair. It suppresses thought. It suppresses speech, and it’s become the enemy of the people. It’s become the enemy of the people. It’s the biggest problem we have in this country. No third world countries would even attempt to do what we caught them doing and you’ll hear about that in just a few minutes. Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer, and we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. We’re going to have to fight much harder and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. If he doesn’t, that will be a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our constitution. Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. After this, we’re going to walk down and I’ll be there with you. We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.
So at 16:25+ minutes, and IN THE CONTEXT OF cheering on Senators and congress critters.
Doesn’t sound so ominous now, does it.
Then that the Capitol grounds are “protected” poorly again has no context. Was this a coordinated effort to set up a False Flag by Pelosi and Co with the DC folks? SHE repeatedly did thing to weaken “defenses”. Given that we now KNOW Antifa and BLM folks were involved as False Flag participants in Trump Gear (arrests made, photos identified, remember…) it is not a large leap to thinking it was also somewhat “set up” from the defense side. Nor even that the NYT is in on the scam as propaganda wing. They have been so in the past.
This next one is a hoot…
Supporters leave the rally in a steady stream before Mr. Trump’s speech ends, and they head toward the Capitol.
12:29 p.m. Constitution Ave.
Anyone leaving at that time was either cold to the bone, or looking for a bathroom, or just heading home as there was no adequate facilities.
I was in the crowd at the Ellipse then. NOBODY was leaving until Trump was ready to speak, and then they were largely “in the moment” until after a full hour of the speech.
My best guess is that anyone leaving early (as I saw NONE moving through the crowd at that time stamp) would be folks at the far edge of the crowd, down the backside of the Washington Monument hill or way out at the Mall area who could not even hear what was being said as they were so far away. I was near the “Jumbotron” for the overflow area, and the crowd went past the Washington Monument from there. I doubt you could even get to Constitution Avenue from there if you tried (and nobody was trying).
There was one row of “porta potties” that was clearly inadequate with lines. I had the good sense NOT to “hydrate” so did 8 hours, no pee break. At about the 1 hour mark of Trumps speech (well AFTER the above claimed time) some folks DID start leaving a few minutes early. Most were doing some variation of the “I’m cold slap dance” or the “where’s the potty” wiggle dance. NOBODY was headed to The Capitol Building for any “event”.
It is a Damn Lie to claim they have any idea what was in the minds of the folks walking down Constitution Avenue. The Reagan building was open for toilets and some folks were headed there (no, I don’t know where it is exactly) along with looking for warmth and / or portapotties and places to put accumulated trash.
There was also another event at the far end of the Mall. It is just as likely these folks are from that event, seeing that they could not get near the Trump speech area. A real timeline would account for that, too.
Notice also the use of “march”. Folks were walking, not marching. There was no cadence, no ranks, no deliberation. Just folks walking the only way they could go to get back to where all the parking was at.
As they arrive, another crowd of Trump supporters that has already gathered along the west perimeter fence becomes more agitated.
12:49 p.m. West of the Capitol grounds
Facts not in evidence. How do we KNOW the people walking “arrived” anywhere in particular? There were already 2 ‘events’ at the Capitol Building grounds, so not alot of room for more folks to “arrive”. My best guess is most of them were leaving for food, drink, bathroom, or warmth. There was about a 15 mph COLD wind and unless you arrived in decent cold weather gear, you got significantly cold. Many folks were not ready for that.
Then the assertion of “more agitated”. I don’t see it in the video in evidence. Just a bunch of folks standing around talking looking a bit unhappy. Nothing much, really, happening at all. I can see one guy in ‘mostly black’ with a bit of green looking like maybe he’s trying to get attention. I’d peg him as an Antifa Agitator trying to drum up excitement and failing.
We do get a nice time stamp that whatever is happening, it is well before Trump is done talking to all of us Real Trump Supporters down at the Ellipse.
Then more “slander by association”:
Around this time, a pipe bomb is reported at the Republican National Committee building, just a block away from the Capitol. Not long after, another device is discovered nearby at the Democratic National Committee headquarters.
So, WELL BEFORE Trump spoke, someone UNKNOWN planned, constructed, and placed some “pipe bombs”. OK, so what does this have to do with Trump? NOTHING.
The list of what is not known is immense here. WHO did it? WHY? WHEN? Was it an anarchist targeting BOTH parties? An Antifa / BLM False Flag operative (We now have proof they were active in the False Flag events – photos identified, arrests made…)? Were the devices ACTIVE and ARMED? Or just ‘for show’ and to be ‘discovered’ by on side police? “The first casualty” is always the truth. We don’t KNOW the truth. AND neither does the NYT. But they choose to frame this as somehow Trump related.
Just how is planting pipe bombs “cheering on” Senators? Eh?
But the good bit is we now have hard evidence there was no way in hell Trump “instigated” this as he was not anywhere near done speaking at this point AND whoever did it was busy making the stuff days before Trump took the stage.
12:53 p.m.–1:03 p.m.
First Barriers Breached
Trump continues speaking.
Rioters topple a fence to the Capitol’s west.
Congress begins joint session.
Again a nice (no doubt accidental) bit of evidence that Trump was still speaking away and most all of the real Trump Supporters were anchored 1.8 miles away (modulo those looking for bathrooms, warmth, lunch or just leaving).
Interesting side bar:
Note that the “rioters” toppling the fence were almost entirely dressed in black, as Antifa does… No Trump Gear visible. Perhaps another bit of “accidental truth” from the NYT?
About 20 minutes before Trump’s speech ends, some people in the Capitol crowd harass officers posted at the barricades and start to get physical. Others follow suit, until they violently overwhelm the police and breach the building’s outer perimeter.
12:53 p.m. Northwest side of the Capitol
Again some “accidental truth” that Trump was still speaking and thus could not be instigating something that happened before he was done. Folks 1.8 miles away were not hearing him.
Then the “violently overwhelm” is a bit much. In some cases the police opened doors for the folks invading the building. Also of note: LARGE areas of fence had no police anywhere near it. IMHO any group choosing to confront an area with police was doing it for the photo op.
Again I note that the general makeup of the folks “breaching” looks a whole lot more like Antifa than Trump Supporters. LOTS of black and dark clothes. Young crowd. Highly emotional. Look at the photos of Trump crowds. Lots of older folks. Lots of colored clothing. No hats on backwards. Emotionally subdued or emotionally having a great time.
Doesn’t add up that these particular people are being called Trump Supporters. Only Trump gear I see is what looks like a brand new MAGA hat (being sold all over the place there by street vendors for $10 or sometimes 2 for $10 trying to clear out inventory).
The next photo / video down also shows a lot of folks in black and dark clothing ‘on the steps’ but not the Typical Trump Gear nor look of the people. There are some flags in the distance, but can’t tell who’s holding them.
At this time, the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, begins the proceedings to certify the Electoral College vote at a joint session of Congress, alongside Vice President Mike Pence.
Outside, the chants begin: “Whose house? Our house!”
That chant is just so lame. A direct lift of “Who’s Street? Our Street!” classical Antifa mode. When I arrived at the front of the Capitol building some long time later (when Trump FINALLY stopped his long winded speech…) there was one dodgy guy trying to get the real Trump Supporters to take up that chant. NOBODY was joining in and he was not getting any traction. My impression of him was “Nut bar, not a Trump person”.
Meanwhile, 1.8 miles away, where Trump and all his real supporters are located:
1:12 p.m.–2:00 p.m.
Trump’s Call to Action
Trump again calls for a march on the Capitol.
Um, no. Just no. Trump used the word “march” once. And that was way back at the 18 minute mark:
Donald Trump: (18:16)
We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections, but whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time, far longer than this four-year period. We’ve set it on a much straighter course, a much … I thought four more years. I thought it would be easy. We created-
Note again the context. Peacefully.
What was going on nearer the end?
Donald Trump: (01:12:43)
So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.
Donald Trump: (01:13:19)
So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to thank you all. God bless you and God bless America. Thank you all for being here, this is incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Hardly a giant “Call To Action” for riot and mayhem (that was already in progress thanks to a Leftist False Flag effort). Just WALK down Pennsylvania avenue and an attempt to encourage Congress to do the right thing.
Which is exactly what folks then did. It took about another hour to get there, as it took time for the crowd at the edges to clear and to walk the almost 2 miles.
Trump ended up not walking with us. No doubt being informed of Troubles at the Capitol Building when he left the stage.
As Mr. Trump’s speech comes to an end, he calls on his supporters to “walk down Pennsylvania Avenue” toward the Capitol. Rioters there continue to violently clash with officers, including reinforcements from the local police department who have arrived on the scene. Both sides spray chemical agents.
But again we have a nice “accidental evidence” that this wasn’t Trump Supporters nor at his urging. It was ALREADY GOING ON when he finally ended his speech. Also, it is another video with mostly young folks dressed in the Antifa like Black colors (a few brown or green, but a minority). Not at all like the folks walking down the avenue in the prior video. Not “Trump Folks” at all, in my opinion.
As this is already way too long, I’ll not bother with most of the rest of their chronical of what all was going on by this small band of, most likely, False Flag Antifa and BLM along with a few Useful Idiots while all the rest of us Real Trump Supporters were slowly making our way back up the Avenue.
By the time I got there, this was mostly in the “talking around” phase with the ‘action’ moved inside. I’ve pointed out before we stopped at the car for a drink & snack and heard on the radio that one wing was evacuated and the other ready for it before we could even get to the Capitol Building after Trump’s speech.
We did a quick turn in front of the steps area, took the photos I posted, and like almost everyone else from the Trump Rally, promptly left. Something about 8 hours standing in the cold without food, minimal hydration, in a cold stiff wind, and with no back support…
Painting that as some kind of Trump Inspired Mob Attack is just Click Bait Jurno-Porn.
Just what I’d expect from the NYT.
There is one nice photo at the bottom showing all the Real Trump Supporters arriving LONG AFTER the rioters and False Flag folks have ‘done the deed’. I think I can even see our car in the staff parking lot! So likely I was sitting in it having some crackers and water when this was taken.
Note that the general color of the crowd is far more colorful than the rioters… an indication of different “gang colors” at a minimum…
Now, in reply to my long, detailed, careful analysis of his proffered link, I got this terse insult that’s been in Moderation Jail for a few days as I tried to make up my mind. Sand, or “Do unto the Left Banners what the Left Banners do unto Conservatives” and be the mirror:
3 days ago
The Non-Incitement & The Instigators
Before you blame the Capitol riot on Antifa or BLM, try checking out the arrest reports. I see a lot of Trump supporters and MAGA fans. Have there been arrests of provocateurs? Out of hundreds, how many? Try not to jump to conclusions without adequate evidence. You sound like a propogandist!
So yet more sniditude. As usual, ignores all the evidence and reasoning. Goes for the orthogonal hit line, then the insult.
Is it really worth it?
The whole POINT of Agent Provocateurs is to have a few leverage a crowd of many into something they otherwise were not going to do. Was that lost on Serioso? Is he really that DUMB?
I don’t think so. I think he’s just a malicious games player who likes to go for the dirt and insult. We’ve been at this a few years now, so I think I have a handle on the persona and the method.
Up To You
Vote if you want. Don’t vote if you don’t want. I’ll leave voting open for a day or two (or maybe three, depending).
Then I’ll decide what to do.
A major “vote off the island”, he goes to SPAM filter.
A major “sand to pearls”, he stays in Moderation Jail until I see fewer insults, then gets out.
Nearly balanced? I’ll ‘flip a coin’ or ponder “what do I want” more and “just do it”.
So pencils up.
The voting begins NOW.