Coincidence Or Peculiar Effect Of Covid?

At present, any “connection” between these two events is “Rank Speculation”. There is no “there there” in terms of evidence. This is just at the start of “connect the dots” where you have two dots and no idea if there are any more, or if these two even connect.

The “effect” in question would be a slower / delayed onset of autoimmune disease, especially in older folks or those with some preexisting predisposition.

What is a known fact is that for some folks the Chinese Wuhan Covid disease and the Genetic Frankenshot injection can cause various immunity mediated problems including things like thrombocytopenia and neuropathy.

It is also known that the injections cause your cells to produce spike proteins and release them into the blood AND that the spike protein itself is toxic to cells, causes damage, and instigates the intense immune response. The worst damage from Covid-19 comes when the virus population is dropping, but the virus fragments are floating around in the blood causing cytokine storms, doing damage, and causing in inflamation spike.

This means that the injection itself ought to cause many of the same symptoms and effects as a Chinese Wuhan Covid infection; just hopefully for most people at a lower level of intensity.

But will it be lower for everyone?

https://www.usneuropathycenters.com/blog/neuropathy-and-covid-19-what-you-should-know

If you suffer from neuropathy caused by an autoimmune disease and need regular blood infusions, be aware that most blood donors have not been tested for COVID-19 antibodies. If you’re aware of the risks related to your neuropathy, you can adjust and protect yourself.

Contracting COVID-19

If you do become infected with the virus, you’re not likely to experience any new damage to your cells, but you may have flare-ups of your neuropathic symptoms.

The flu-like effects of COVID-19 may exacerbate the tingling and numbness you normally feel. While this may be uncomfortable, it’s no need to panic. Follow your doctor’s care orders closely until the infection runs its course.

So why are we NOT screening blood supply for Covid-19 antibodies? Seems like it would give a good insight into the status of “Herd Immunity” and / or virus prevalence.

But notice that it is known that Chinese Wuhan Covid will make any peripheral neuropathy worse.

https://www.foundationforpn.org/2020/10/09/neurological-symptoms-following-covid-19/

Neurologic Symptoms in COVID-19 patients

The most common neurologic symptom reported is loss of smell, which may occur early in the disease process. Loss of smell, which may also impact the sense of taste, is thought to be temporary and it is felt that most people recover their sense of smell over time. Some of the latest research would indicate that this is because of inflammatory changes affecting not the olfactory neurons (which receive and transmit odors from the nose to the brain), but rather the support cells that lead to a healthy nasal mucosa and healthy olfactory neurons. Aside from waiting, there is no definite treatment to help recover the sense of smell, but some have suggested that taking oral omega-3 supplements or using intranasal vitamin A may help speed recovery.

Medicine by “how I feel about the disease”? Hoping the sense of smell will recover just fine? OK… But clearly this virus (and the spike proteins) attack nerves in the nose.

Guillain-Barré syndrome is an inflammatory disorder affecting the peripheral nerves and the nerve roots that can lead to generalized muscle weakness, numbness, walking problems, and in severe cases affect breathing, blood pressure, and the gastrointestinal system. Prior to COVID-19, Guillain-Barré syndrome had been linked to an inflammatory response as a result of several infections, including Campylobacter jejuni, Lyme disease, EBV, HIV, and Zika virus, to name a few. Almost expectedly, there are now many reports of Guillain-Barré syndrome occurring during the acute illness from SARS-CoV-2 infection and within the weeks following recovery. Fortunately, should this happen it seems that the standard treatments for Guillain-Barré syndrome are seen to be beneficial, and most patients recover very well over time and with physical therapy.

Again an attack on nerve structures. Note particularly that it can be weeks following recovery, not just “in the moment” of the disease. This also implies it can be in the “weeks following” the Frankenshot too. Expecting things to happen “in the now” or attempting to use “it happened weeks after” to say it was not caused by the virus or the shot is a mistake.

Much more commonly, however, we are seeing many patients in our practices complain of mild but still disabling muscle weakness, fatigue, and numbness or tingling following COVID-19 disease. When we see these patients, we often recommend a series of standard tests looking for neuropathy or myopathy. Checking certain blood tests is important to identify other causes of neuropathy that may be contributing to these symptoms, such as vitamin deficiencies or metabolic derangements such as diabetes. Nerve conduction studies and electromyography (EMG) testing may be performed to characterize the presence of a neuropathy. Making a formal diagnosis is challenging in many of these patients, however, because the nerve conduction studies and EMG are often normal relative to the standard reference values in our experience. In addition, skin biopsies which look for evidence of damage to or loss of the small nerve fiber endings in the skin are often normal as well, though there have been no formal rigorous studies yet to confirm this.

While we are also anecdotally seeing a major uptick in people reporting new or worsening of their headaches or migraines following COVID-19 disease, these symptoms seem to improve with time and with traditional recommendations for headache. Probably, the most debilitating symptoms reported by patients is the overall feeling of fatigue, mental fog, and quantifiable weight loss in the weeks and months following the infection. Especially among people who live in New York City where we practice, the daily stresses of life can be overwhelming on a good day. Many people who had COVID-19 are now reeling from this major drain on both their physical and mental energy. This is compounded by the overall level of physical deconditioning that many New Yorkers are facing by quarantining indoors the past six months, from the closure of most gyms, and the inability to engage in many other physical activities. Unfortunately, there has yet to be a label applied to this condition, no clear diagnostic tests, and no definitive treatments identified.

Peripheral Neuropathy and COVID-19

Neuropathic pain is not an uncommon post-Covid symptom. However, we don’t have definite evidence to prove that the worsening of the neuropathy symptoms is really from peripheral neuropathy – or neuropathy like symptoms coming from problems with the brain or spinal cord.
Anecdotally some patients with these symptoms show no large or small fiber neuropathy on EMG and skin biopsies. The symptom management however is similar, and we again expect to learn more with time.

(You can read an article written by FPN’s Board Member that appeared in Brain and Life magazine tells his journey with COVID-19 and peripheral neuropathy.)

Now I would expect that if someone who has no prior problem can get peripheral neuropathy problems, then someone with it already can get worse. I’d further expect that since the spike protein itself is mediating for the problem, a shot that causes production and blood circulation of the spike protein could also cause the problem. Perhaps at a lower level, but enough to cause a person who is already dealing with peripheral neuropathy or autoimmune disorders to have them worsen. Yes, speculative, but informed speculation and something that ought to be investigated, not swept under the rug with “just a side effect”… that can show up weeks later and take months to resolve.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(20)30348-9/fulltext

Ambient respiratory viral infections have been associated with an increased number of cases of rheumatoid arthritis (especially in women and older patients), suggesting that respiratory viral infections might be an environmental risk factor for the development of rheumatoid arthritis.

SARS-CoV-2 enters the cell via the angiotensin-converting enzyme-2 (ACE-2) and it is sensed by Toll-like receptor-7 (TLR7); bioinformatic analyses have shown that the SARS-CoV-2 genome contains a large number of fragments that are recognised by TLR7. In addition to its expression in immunological cells, TLR7 is expressed predominantly in the lung and bronchus, thus allowing SARS-CoV-2 to be highly recognised in the regions of its tropism. TLR7 activation leads to activation of c-Jun N-terminal kinase and nuclear factor-κB signaling, thus leading to the production of IL-6 and IL-12p40. 5 Therefore, it is conceivable that patients with COVID-19 might display symptoms and signs of inflammation, such as a viral arthritis.6 Thus, from the point of view of a rheumatologist, evaluating the role of SARS-CoV-2 in inflammatory arthritis is essential for diagnosis.

Serological tests could be useful to establish a diagnosis, but the possibility that low-titre positivity for autoantibodies (such as rheumatoid factor [RF] or antinuclear antibody [ANA]) could be detected in viral arthritis must also be taken into account.

A detailed analysis of epidemiological, clinical, and serological characteristics is required to help physicians diagnose viral arthritis; oligoarticular or polyarticular involvement (either symmetric or asymmetric), good response to NSAIDs, a clinical manifestation characterised by an early onset (within the first weeks of symptomatic infection) and a self-limiting presence are the elements that orientate toward a viral arthritis (appendix p 1).

Note that simply binding to the receptor is enough to trigger the “sensing” and cascade of effects. The spike protein binds to the receptor.

OK, that’s the disease. We’re talking about the so called “vaccination” shot (that is really a “genetic device” not a classical vaccine). Any evidence that it’s doing the same thing? Other than rank speculation that “vaccine” produced spike protein will act the same way as virus produced spike protein?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(21)00108-9/fulltext

Here, we present a case of a White male, aged 55 years, with non-erosive, seropositive rheumatoid arthritis (positive for rheumatoid factor, anticyclic citrullinated peptide antibodies, antinuclear antibodies, and anti-Ro antibodies) who had been in sustained clinical remission for more than 2 years and developed an acute flare of his rheumatoid arthritis 12 h after the second BNT162b2 vaccination.

The patient had been in clinical remission on upadacitinib monotherapy since July, 2018. At his last clinic visit in September, 2020, his physical exam showed no active synovitis or joint effusions, and his disease activity scores were consistent with remission (clinical disease activity index=0; disease activity score of 28 joints with C-reactive protein=1·21). The patient had no known exposures to SARS-CoV-2 and had tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 by PCR in April, 2020, when screened for work. He received the first BNT162b2 vaccine on Dec 23, 2020, after which he developed minor arthralgias that resolved within 1 day. He received the second vaccine dose on Jan 13, 2021, and within 12 h developed clinically significant pain and swelling in the right knee. He had no other joint pain, swelling, or stiffness. He took ibuprofen and prednisone 5 mg soon after the pain and swelling began, but his symptoms persisted, so he contacted our office the next day and we advised him to increase his prednisone to 10 mg daily. Despite the increased medication, he continued to have clinically significant symptoms, so we asked him to come to our clinic for an ultrasound evaluation. He had continued on his usual rheumatoid arthritis treatment between the two vaccinations.

The patient came to our clinic on Jan 22, 2021—30 days after receiving the first BNT162b2 vaccination, and 9 days after the second vaccination—he had clinically significant swelling and warmth over the right knee with pain on flexion and extension of the knee. There was no tenderness, swelling, or erythema of any other joints. Ultrasound evaluation of the right knee showed a moderate to large compressible hypoechoic effusion in the suprapatellar recess that extended from the suprapatellar bursa proximally 5·2 cm deep to the quadriceps tendon and involved the medial and lateral gutter (appendix). There was increased power Doppler signal in the effusion in the lateral gutter. Additionally, there was a large effusion in the posterior knee deep to the semimembranosus tendon, consistent with a popliteal cyst.
[…]
His rheumatoid arthritis was well controlled before the vaccination, and there were no other inciting events, so we believe that this flare might have been triggered by his immune response to a component of the BNT162b2 vaccine. BNT162b2 contains mRNA encoding for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles, in addition to other components that stabilise the vaccine in the circulation and promote its uptake into cells by endocytosis. Although the mechanism of flare is not known, one could speculate that one of these components might have had non-specific adjuvant effect, or there could have been molecular mimicry between the viral spike peptides and the patient’s self-peptides, activating a flare. However, we cannot exclude the possibility that the timing of the flare with regard to vaccination was coincidental. The patient was treated with intra-articular steroids with rapid improvement, and he is once again in clinical remission.

So I’d count that as a “yes”. Poke the bear, it wakes up sometimes. As people are highly variable, I’d expect many to have zero problems, some to have modest problems, and some to be debilitated.

Which brings us to the 2 data points.

(h/t to P.G. Sharrow for this one, here:)

https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2021/06/03/w-o-o-d-3-june-2021/#comment-146399

Eric Clapton discusses his experience with taking the Covid Jab;
https://www.nme.com/en_au/news/music/eric-clapton-discusses-his-anti-vaccination-stance-my-greatest-fear-is-what-will-happen-to-my-kids-2969533
Be sure to watch the video link half way down in the article.

In the article we have Clapton saying:

Repeating his previously-stated scepticism about the coronavirus vaccine, Clapton said he received his for the sake of his children, but that side effects then left him “out for the count for about a week,” and severely worsened his existing peripheral neuropathy, leading to “agony” and “chronic pain.”

He added that the second dose left him unable to use his hands for three weeks, and that he still “can’t touch anything cold or hot” without the use of gloves.

When your entire career and skill are in your hands, that’s pretty devastating. Not to mention the persistent pain he is dealing with.

Here’s the video:

Which brings me to the second data point.

Over the years I’ve frequently pointed at iceagenow.info as a site that does a great job with reporting the abnormal cold and snow weather events. Seems to me (though not to him) that the blog operator, Robert, has had a similar brush with the Frankenshot:

https://www.iceagenow.info/update-on-my-roberts-health/

Published June 8, so about a week ago. There have been no knew articles since, and no update of comments since. I have at least 2 that have not yet made it through “moderation”. My belief is that (quite properly) Robert is dealing with his health issues and letting the blog sit for a while.

But what are they? As he puts it, he doesn’t know, nor do we. He asserts there is no connection to his vaccination as there was a time gap between them, but we know that a delayed response is common. So maybe yes, maybe no.

You’ll want to read this if you have rheumatoid arthritis (R.A.). You also may want to share this with any of your friends or relatives who have R.A.

For starters, I simply do not know how I’m doing!
[…]
Fast forward to 2018, when I needed to undergo a quite invasive surgery. The surgeon asked me to go off all meds, including the methotrexate, for 6 weeks prior to the surgery, and six weeks after.

Lo-and-behold, the R.A. had vanished! Gone! I thought. My rheumatologist and I decided to discontinue the methotrexate, and after awhile he dismissed me. Told me to call him in the event the R.A if I have a problem.

Bad, bad, bad mistake.

So now we get to today.

Two Thursdays ago I walked into my first meeting with a rheumatologist because of a long list of symptoms that specialists couldn’t fathom. None of the specialists had ever mentioned R.A. Not once. Finally, after months, my wife and I self-diagnosed the culprit as R.A. The rheumatologist agreed. Hugely progressive R.A. By Friday night I was walking with a cane. By Sunday night I needed a walker. Now I’m dependent on a wheelchair. All in less than three weeks.

Went to the JPS Hospital emergency room. The hospital infused me with a high dose of steroids (1000 mg of prednisone) three days in a row which was supposed to stop the progression in its tracks. It did nothing.

They couldn’t believe R.A. could work that quickly, so they conducted a full-body MRI, a cat-scan of my head, a Lumbar puncture (spinal tap) and so many blood tests that I couldn’t possibly keep count. Nothing. They’re completely baffled.

In the meantime I’m sticking with my belief that it’s R.A. because my rheumatoid factor is 50. (About 4 times what it should be.) Instead of attacking my joints, it is attacking my organs – my skin (an organ), heavy neuropathy, numbness in feet and lower legs (my legs have turned to jello and I have no balance), and the numbness has begun moving into my hands. Highly elevated blood pressure, highly elevated liver enzyme levels, the list goes on and on.

And oh, did I mention the pain?

Now we’re waiting for the insurance company to hopefully approve treatment with a drug called Rituxan. (Chemotherapy).

In the meantime I’m home from the hospital but getting progressively worse. I’m taking as many pain meds as they’ll prescribe.

All in less than three weeks!

I’ll keep you updated, and please wish me good luck.

Robert

I’ve bolded the point about 3 weeks of rapid accelleration.

Further down, in comments:

Bee
June 8, 2021 at 3:11 pm
Were you Covid-vaxxed?

Reply

Robert
June 8, 2021 at 3:24 pm
Yes. J&J, several weeks ago. But please understand, this has been going on since at least last July.

Yes, ambiguous. Is it just a natural acceleration of a return of RA? Or did the vaccination stomp on the “Go Pedal” for the immune response?

That he had a variety of unusual non-RA symptoms prior to getting the RA panel of tests, and then the rapid, I’d even say dramatic, acceleration of issues, to me, speaks to something outside of the usual RA patterns.

But like I said, just 2 data points and just rank speculation.

So Far.

I hope things go well for Robert. I’ve valued his contributions over the years on the Global Warming fraud. I would hate to see his voice stilled by the Chinese Wuhan Covid plandemic and / or the Frankenshot.

Yes, I’m a bit peeved about all this.

FWIW, my suggestion is that folks with existing autoimmunity issues consider using some kind of prophylactic instead of an immune poking spike protein surge. Frankly, my own tendency to “high immune response” is why, about a year ago, I decided I wanted immune soothing prophylactics rather than immune poking mRNA Spike Protein production inside my body. But that is just my personal choice.

Should I ever get the “vaccination” shot, I will be dosed with Ivermectin prior to it. Ivermectin has been shown to bind to the end of the spike protein and help block binding to the ACE-2 receptor. It is my speculation that this would help prevent a hyper-immunity cascade from the shot as that whole metabolic cascade with TLR7 would be muted or prevented. Yet the proteins would still be floating around where the immune system could sensitize to them.

In short, I think it has a good chance of preventing vaccination side effects similar to how it prevents disease symptoms.

For now, we’ve got 2 data points, some medical article “one off” cases, and some rank speculation. But I think it is enough to say “Watch Here!” for now and eventually “Dig Here!” when more cases show up.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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47 Responses to Coincidence Or Peculiar Effect Of Covid?

  1. p.g.sharrow says:

    Research is suggesting that Covid was well into the US by mid December 2019.

    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-outbreaks-us-christmas/2021/06/15/id/1025143/

  2. Weetabix says:

    I commented at Robert’s site:
    You might ask about Adult Onset Still’s Disease. I had that in 2009, and what you’re experiencing sounds familiar. It’s quite rare, and it took them a long time to figure it out.

    My outstanding feature was severe joint pain that put me on a cane at 44 years old.

    https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/436/stills-disease-adult-onset

    Ironic that his post before that was “Do you trust government guidelines for ANY thing?”

  3. cdquarles says:

    Again, not really anything new here. Just how do people think viruses work (they are the ultimate parasite, by the way)? Do they not know that much of the current human DNA is congruent with incorporated virus remnants (reminder, it is my contention that one of the functions of viruses is to help maintain the total stock of genetic information)? So yes, things like autoimmune disease following either a natural viral infection or an immunization designed to mimic but limit adverse effects are to be expected.

    Reminder, Epstein-Barr virus and type 1 diabetes in children. I had this discussion with a hematologist earlier this year (he did a *bunch* of blood tests on me, including some serum vitamin levels), since I really wanted to drop the anticoagulant Eliquis, which was started as a precaution after I had a pulmonary thomboembolic event in August 2018.

    All, and I do mean *all* successful biological organisms alter their local environment to promote their own survival. Nature is *full* of poison; though dose and route matters much in determining whether a specific chemical is toxic at the prescribed conditions and poison specific chemical reaction chains.

  4. E.M.Smith says:

    @CDQuarles:

    I have a pet theory… (“Here Theory Theory Theory… Good boy! ;-) that’s still in the process of development…

    We have shown that the mineral mix in cells is much more like that of a “Mud Pot” near a volcano than like the ocean.

    We know that prior to The Great Oxygen Catastrophe, the atmosphere was oxygen poor and reducing agent rich.

    We know that there are lots of hydrocarbons in the solar system AND that deep underground there’s a huge crop of bacteria, many of which eat hydrocarbons (especially you find whole colonies of animals at oil seeps on the ocean floor).

    We know there are amino acids in space, naturally formed.

    We know many organelles of advanced cells (like Eukaryotes) are essentially captured bacteria.

    We know much of the genome is carried by / moved around by / comes from viruses infecting other cells.

    So my theory tries to tie all these together. The basic notion is that life formed, not initially as cells, but as a very complex organic soup in a mud pot. Bits of DNA, RNA, proteins, amino acids all the bits of life just bubbling around and interacting.

    Somewhere along the line, some bits of RNA / DNA code for some useful things, like ribosomes or protective wrappers that let them propgate past a bothersome state (like a hot cycle or dry cycle). These get conserved in the puddle as they create things that make more of them or help them survive “whatever”.

    Now are those scraps of genetic material that are being given enhanced replication or survival a cell? Nope. A lot of the machinery is in the soup. A virus? Not really. Not got the whole “delivery system” and such. Just a tendency to out-compete other reactions in the soup.

    BUT, IMHO, they are the start of the march to life.

    As things boil and bubble, you get bits encapsulated in “stuff”. Being a reducing atmosphere, likely a primitive lipid / protein bi-layer (as we have had them spontaneously form in lab soup). This is a little more protective than being free floating in the whole soup, and starts a race condition. Those bubbles that are best at making more of themselves, tend to win. BUT, those bits of RNA / DNA outside the bubble that are needed inside the bubble also need to be preserved.

    I contend that, in parallel, the virus “delivery system” evolved to move about those “needed bits” AND this proto-cell had pressure to evolve things to improve stability and improve availability of that RNA and DNA information. This pressure leads to the formation of an actual primitive bacteria cell AND the first viruses in parallel as the mechanism to “stabilizer the mud pot”.

    From that point on, you have mutation and Darwinian evolution.

    Eventually some cells have “enough stuff” and don’t need a “virus” to supply needed bits. At that point, further virus deliveries are as likely to be “disease” as help. Eventually some helpful proto-bacteria parts of the Mud Soup get incorporated into more advanced cells as organelles. Eventually some primitive bacteria get incorporated into others with more defended nuclear genomes, and Eukaryotes are formed. Then some of them stick together in colonies and an explosion of advanced lift happens.

    In this way, you never need to climb the mountain of evolving a cell and cell structures all at once. Life starts as a whole big puddle of warm mud and organic biochemical goo, and only later divides itself into the functional units of cells. Think of slime molds as the first really advanced life… Can be single cell, or multicellular. Can have multiple nuclei per cell wall package.

    In this view of things, virus-as-disease is just virus-as-essential-delivery-system when the “client” has evolved away from needing that service… but the “service” refuses to quit.

  5. E.M.Smith says:

    @P.G.:

    The researchers say nine study participants — five from Illinois, and one each from Massachusetts, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin — were infected earlier than any COVID-19 case was ever reported in those states.

    One of the Illinois cases was infected as early as Christmas Eve, said Keri Althoff, an associate professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and the study’s lead author.

    Illinois, Massachusettes, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin? NONE of them are as tightly bound to China as the West Coast of the USA. We’ve got thousands of folks who fly back and forth all the time.

    And, I know of 2 folks personally who said they had some kind of horrible “flu” in late November, one with reduction of sense of smell, and a whole lot of the other Chinese Wuhan Covid symptoms.

    My best guess is that this thing was in the USA in Silly Con Valley, in November. Just as a low grade “one or two” kind of thing. Only exploding when China had their diaspora of thousands of folks “returning home” after the Chinese Winter Solstice Celebration that sent millions of folks all over the world. We had a huge batch of “returning from visiting family” and then all hell broke lose. While Fauci was busying saying “No need to stop flights from China and don’t wear masks” an you had Pelosi_and_the_Dims saying to go hug a Chinese…

    I’d assert that if it was in The East of the USA in December, it was in the airports of the West Coast before that.

  6. jim2 says:

    I haven’t done a deep dive on this, but did read the vaccine produced spike is rigid and can’t undergo the conformal change needed to actually dock on the target. I can try to find that again.

  7. jim2 says:

    The proteins, however, are in a fixed state, they are unable to change their confirmation, which is necessary to bind to cells. So they function differently than spike proteins on infecting virus.

    I think the writer meant “conformation” rather than “confirmation.”

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/spike-proteins-covid-19-and-vaccines/

  8. philjourdan says:

    Don’t know about screening, but they are testing. Every time I go in, they test for COVID (CHinese Flu) antibodies.

    So far negative.

  9. The True Nolan says:

    Was COVID in the US earlier than we are being told? Here is an interesting video from March of 2020 looking at the pro and con of the idea that COVID started here in the states before it hit China.

    (Note that there are several points of reasonable contention in the first part of the video, but the speaker DOES point out many of the weaknesses in the case as the video goes along.)

  10. Paul, Somerset says:

    Pages 14-17 of this recent paper detail auto-inflammatory and autoimmune responses to the spike protein:
    https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/49&nbsp
    It’s not long, but gives a very good summary of all the work in this area over the last couple of years, with references.
    The authors conclude:
    “We have reviewed the evidence here that the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 has extensive sequence homology with multiple endogenous human proteins and could prime the immune system toward development of both auto-inflammatory and autoimmune disease. This is particularly concerning given that the protein has been redesigned with two extra proline residues to potentially impede its clearance from the circulation through membrane fusion. These diseases could present acutely and over relatively short timespans such as with MIS-C or could potentially not manifest for months or years following exposure to the spike protein, whether via natural infection or via vaccination.”

  11. jim2 says:

    @ Paul, Somerset

    The paper contains a lot of speculation that may or may not come to pass. I agree the clinical trials were short and that leaves room for uncertainty concerning long term effects. However, these claims need to be verified in the real world. So far, adverse reactions have been few and far between considering the millions vaccinated so far.

    At any rate, the deed is done. Only time will tell what bad or good might come from the mRNA vaccines.

  12. H.R. says:

    @weetabix who wrote: You might ask about Adult Onset Still’s Disease. I had that in 2009, and what you’re experiencing sounds familiar. It’s quite rare, and it took them a long time to figure it out.”

    Still’s disease! I had (have) that! Talk about “stump the chumps!” My Dr. and several specialists could not figure it out.

    Agonizing! And the RA-like symptoms move around. Some days, I could not move my fingers. Other days, it was in my spine. And then the knees, and then the elbows, hips, ankles, toes, fingers, and, and, and, it moved everywhere and back. This went on for a couple of years.

    Finally, I got hit with the extremely high fever and was thrown into the hospital for a week. I was completely out of it for three days. I was literally out of my skull with a dangerously high fever (105? 106?).

    They took blood samples from veins and arteries and tested for everything. They’d show up morning, afternoon, and evening with a rack of blood vials and filled them all. If I had a nickel for every sample they took, I could have retired right after discharge from the hospital. Turns out I had no rare tropical diseases, no HIV, no, no, no… nuttin’! My blood was pure as the driven snow.

    Finally, a medical intern (Shareen… I wish I could remember her last name, bless her!) diagnosed me. They cover Still’s disease in med school, but it’s so rare that most doctors never see a case.

    She said my symptoms over the past couple of years and then the hospitalization for high fever fit the diagnosis for Still’s disease. And then my Doc said, “Duhhh, yeah!”

    There are several treatments for Still’s disease. I found for myself that Sam-e (400 mg once per day) works just fine. If I’m out for just a day or three, I start up with the symptoms again.

    Anyhow… Still’s disease! Does this guy know Still’s disease or what?
    .
    .
    .
    Amusing incident while I was in the hospital and still very out of it.

    They called my wife to tell her I had died during the night. No, it wasn’t me, Really. It wasn’t me. It was some guy in the next room over. A one-room-number- off sort of thing.

    Well, my wife was a professional geek up until her stroke, and at that time she would come to the hospital in the evening to sit with me, and then go home and get online to do her geek thingy until all hours of the morning. Many here know that drill. That was dialup days, and the hospital could not reach her. The line was busy for hours and hours.

    So they called my sister-in-law (my listed alt contact) and told her I had died. Could she somehow get through to her sister, my wife?

    She was shocked to the core. Turned white, drained, shaking, and weak as a dishrag, she said. Good sis-in-law and our families were close. Bro-in-law and I are both the cooks in the family and chef wannabes.

    Fortunately, before she could get through to my wife – there was a delay while she was processing the shock – and the line was busy for her as well, they discovered the mistake and called her in the wee hours to say, “Nevermind.”

    The next morning, and it was the first morning I regained my senses after the fever abated, there was a hospital big chief muck-a-muck administrator and the hospital lawyer in my room first thing after I was awake; 7:30 or 8:00 am.

    They were feeling me out about a potential MAJOR lawsuit. They asked me how I felt about the incident. Me: “What incident?” I was still kind of out of it with fever that night.

    They told me what happened and I just roared! I hadn’t had a good laugh in days and definitely not since I wound up in the hospital several days before.

    I used the old Mark Twain line on them, “The news of my death was greatly exaggerated.” I said that I didn’t care a whit because it had no effect on me whatsoever. I was asaleep and out of it anyhow and at that point, my wife STIILL hadn’t heard I was dead. But I advised them to discuss it with my sister-in-law.

    Well they did. It turns out that our families are not the litigious sort: no blood, no foul. So they said “Thank you! Thank You! Bless you!” and told her to take the whole family out to a fine dinner – hers and mine – and send them the bill.

    So we went to one of the top steak houses in town. It was a whole passel of us… lessee, 9 total, I believe. Cocktails, appetizers, filet mignon, wine, deserts, EVERYTHING! The bill was ummmm… impressive,

    And the hospital paid it without a whimper and no doubt, with a sigh of relief that they got off so cheap.

    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I ain’t dead yet! Maybe tomorrow, maybe in a few years, but not yet!

  13. jim2 says:

    The authors of the ijvtpr paper:

    Dr. Greg Nigh, ND, LAc

    Dr. Greg Nigh co-founded Immersion Health in 2014 with Maria Zilka, NTP. Dr. Nigh is a graduate of the National College of Natural Medicine (now the National University of Natural Medicine, NUNM), where he completed both the Naturopathic Doctor (ND) program and the Master of Science in Oriental Medicine (MSOM) programs. Prior to studying naturopathic medicine, he attended the University of Notre Dame, where he received his Bachelor’s in English, and he then completed a Master of Humanities program at Arizona State University…

    https://www.immersionhealthpdx.com/

    Stephanie Seneff is a senior research scientist at MIT, where she has had continuous affiliation for more than five decades. After receiving four degrees from MIT (B.S.. in Biophysics, M.S., E.E., and Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science), she has conducted research in packet-switched networks, computational modeling of the human auditory system, natural language processing, spoken dialogue systems, and second language learning. Currently a Senior Research Scientist (MIT’s highest research rank) at the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, she has supervised 21 Master’s and 14 Ph.D. students. For over a decade, since 2008, she has directed her attention towards the role of nutrition and environmental toxicants on human disease, with a special emphasis on the herbicide glyphosate and the mineral sulfur.

    https://stephanieseneff.net/about-me-2/

  14. jim2 says:

    My wife is diagnosed with RA and has been through a gauntlet of drugs to control it. She had the Pfizer vaccine and her symptoms haven’t gotten any worse or any better from it. She and I are just two people, but neither of us had any COVID symptoms either. The vaccine was a non-event for us.

    That said, human biology is very complex and I wouldn’t be surprised if some people had a bad reaction, of various sorts, to the injection. But what with millions of people having gotten it already, the proportion of those with problems appears to be small. Of course, we don’t know what the future holds.

  15. E.M.Smith says:

    “At any rate, the deed is done. ”

    Um, the deed is only 1/2 done. A LOT of folks are still not vaccinated, including “The Children”. I think it is those under 16 or so are still not on the “Jab Me” list. Just now getting started on them.

    Then there’s most of Africa and India….

    IF there is some time delayed horrible outcome from the gene therapy shot, there’s still plenty of souls who could avoid it. OTOH, if it is God’s Gift to prevent Chinese Wuhan Covid, there’s still plenty of souls at risk…

  16. jim2 says:

    Looks like we need to observe the 50 and older group. They are in the 70+% vaccinated group.

    https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/

  17. H.R. says:

    Hey I screwed up in my tale of woe, above. I take SAM-e, not San-e.

    [Reply: fixed it for you. -E.M.S.]

    I have recommended it to many people who have arthritis. Arthritis is a result of something and not really a root cause itself. It’s a symptom of something else that’s awry.

    Anyhow, depending on what’s causing the arthritis, it may or may not work. It takes about a month to build up in your system. I recommended it to several people where I worked. For two people, it was a miracle. The others… meh.
    .
    .
    .
    SAM-e was developed in Italy, IIRC. It was a prescription antidepressant. Turns out it wasn’t a particularly good one, but the doctors noticed that many of their depressed patients with arthritis were helped quite a bit. SAM-e has been reported to have reversed some arthritis damage.

    It’s a supplement like Melatonin. It’s produced in our bodies naturally and to a greater or lesser extent. It’s associated with the mood controlling chemicals in our bodies. Well, it seems it also affects inflammation in the joints.

    The European makers did not want to fuss with the FDA, but they could sell it as a supplement. They just can’t make the claims in the U.S. like they could for a prescription drug. It’s “May help with, blah. blah, blah” language.

    Give it shot if you have arthritis. Depending on the cause it can be a big help. It only takes a month or two to find out if it works on the cause of your arthritis.

  18. p.g.sharrow says:

    Interesting aside on government drive for this Covid inoculation push.
    As a disabled War veteran I get my medications from the VA system. I was nearly out so about 6 weeks ago I called in for my meds and was informed that the perscriptions had been canceled and needed to be renewed. They are for my asthma/hay-fever. So I called in for the renewal which is generally automatic. Two weeks later I recievced a letter of an appointment needed for full blood tests including Covid testing before the newly assigned Doctor would ok the prescriptions. I have turned down offers from them of the Jab on several occasions over the last 6 months says I ” Thanks but No Thanks, give it to someone that wants it.”. This time I said no thanks again and my prescriptions and renewal showed up a week later.

    I’m fairly sure I was infected late December 2019 with some kind of flu that took until June to be fully over it. Good thing that I had been following a good health anti-virus regime before hand so that the complications were minor and the infection low grade.

    As to masking,..no! As to the Jab, NO !!. Next It will be HELL NO !

  19. The True Nolan says:

    @ jim2: “Stephanie Seneff is a senior research scientist at MIT”

    Dr. Seneff has done some really noteworthy research into the health issues caused by glyphosate. YouTube used to (maybe still does…) have some very good videos by her on that subject.

  20. jim2 says:

    Stephanie Seneff first came to skeptical attention when she published a study claiming that vaccines were linked to autism. She trolled through the VAERS database and, as David Gorski noted, “tortured the data until it confessed.” Last year she published a paper in which she claimed glyphosate caused autism, claims which I addressed almost a year ago. Gorski also deconstructed this paper, noting, “In fact, if you look at the slides for Seneff’s talks (e.g., this one, available at her MIT web page), you’ll find a tour de force of confusing correlation with causation…”

    Seneff is a computer scientist who apparently is anti-vaccine and anti-GMO. In a stunning example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, she feels she can take her computer expertise and export it to biology. She nicely demonstrates that expertise is not so easily transferable.

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/seneff-claims-gmos-cause-concussions/

  21. cdquarles says:

    SAM-e is S-adenosyl-methionine, if I am remembering correctly. Your body makes it. Most don’t need a supplement; though some may.

  22. cdquarles says:

    Oh, another thing: people with chronic pain often become depressed, in part because their sleep is disrupted.

  23. cdquarles says:

    As someone who knows pain, I say that you don’t really understand it until you have had 1. bad cluster-migraines, 2. kidney stones, 3. given birth, 4. chronic, multiple joint arthritis, 5. osteomyelitis from various sources, 6. multiple bone fractures, 7. bone pain from cancer, or 8. combinations of those.

  24. Power Grab says:

    Because probiotics have fixed some things for me, I like to do searches on how probiotics might help fix intractable health problems, especially the ones that involve the immune system.

    Here is an article that I thought was worth sharing:

    https://info.dralexrinehart.com/articles/bacillus-probiotics-and-rheumatoid-arthritis-benefits

  25. E.M.Smith says:

    @CDQuarles:

    I would add to that: 9. Tympanoplasty with straightening of the ear canal.

    I hope with advances in micro surgery and robotics they no longer need to do that. At the time it was basically “You have small ear canals. We will drill them straight to do the work”. Then they take an electric drill to your ear / skull up to just short of the ear drum.

    To say the post surgery recovery pain was “exquisite” is a bit of an understatement. The ear canal is rather sensitive and it was basically hamburgered up, sutured where possible, packed with cotton or some such, then bandaged. If feels WORSE than an ice pick in your ear as it is the whole surface end to end. Opioids didn’t do much… After about a week it was down to only horrible…

    Note, too, sleeping becomes a bit of a nightmare. NO position helps much. Certainly not laying down with higher fluid pressure. In a chair has issues with no head support. Any movement causes a huge “wake up call” … About the 2nd or 3rd day ( I lost track) of not really sleeping and just having “screaming pain” where you can’t scream (as the vibrations are an issue…) and where you get about 30 minutes of relief from an “every 4 hours” drug dose limit… I managed to quasi sleep for about an hour… Thought it would never end, until that moment of a little bit of sleep…

  26. Power Grab says:

    Re: pain

    Then there’s “The Suicide Disease” i.e. trigeminal neuralgia. It was way worse than childbirth for me.

    The best remedy for that, for me, was the sea salt + water protocol from Dr. “Batman” (see watercure.com) . Two dentist told me to see a neurologist, but I didn’t want to start with a specialist.

  27. Weetabix says:

    @H.R. – finally someone to commiserate with about Still’s! It was Stump the Chumps for me, but a rheumatologist finally figured it out.

    The only joints I didn’t get excruciating pain in were my elbows. Dunno why. Pain everywhere else was constant. I looked like a dead roach curled up on the couch. My wife said walked like a 90 year old man. My shoulders were so bad I couldn’t reach to wash my own hair – my wife had to do it. My proudest achievement, though, was that no one had to wipe my butt during the whole experience. Good thing about those elbows.

    Fevers: before I got admitted (and after), I had very high fevers. I later realized I had been hallucinating. My feet would email me math problems at night, and I wasn’t allowed to go to sleep until I solved them. I “solved” some and stayed awake all night some nights until I discovered one particular hat that would block the emails when I put it over my face. My family still jokes about my feet emailing me. In the hospital, it was ice packs at groin, armpits, and back of neck. I hated those, but I guess they worked.

    Blood draws – same with me. I actually left the hospital with anemia because the took so much. Might have been fever hallucinations, but I remember one night their taking big, big samples and dumping them in a bucket. I know some of the tubes they sucked it into looked like turkey basters. It got so when they’d come in for a draw at night and wake me up to tell me what they were doing, I’d tell them go ahead, I’m going back to sleep. Wake me if you need an answer to something, and see yourself out.

    Meds: prednisone did wonders for me. I’m in the group that it goes away and may come back. I’ll know what to ask for early next time.

    After my ability to walk came back, I couldn’t run or jump for quite some time. Experimentally jumped over a small rainwater trickle one day. Success! When I got home I cockily decided to jump the water in the gutter. Fell like a sack of potatoes. But I was so happy to have been airborne, I didn’t care. Fortunately, no one saw that little fail.

    I hope yours goes away or stays at bay. It truly sucks.

  28. jim2 says:

    EMS – the ear thing sounds truly horrible!

  29. jim2 says:

    And that’s not to say some of the other miladies mentioned in this thread are any less horrible. Life can truly suck.

  30. jim2 says:

    As a physician and mother of three boys, my question is, if the vaccine successfully induces an immune response, which some studies suggest may be more robust than natural exposure to the virus, then could the vaccine incite the inflammatory reaction resulting in MIS-C?

    If so, would it be more frequent or severe if the immune response is greater? Couldn’t this place healthy children at risk of a severe outcome from the vaccine who had an extremely low likelihood of getting sick at all?

    I am not alone in my concerns. Pediatric vaccine expert Dr. Peter Hoetz said in a recent interview, “What may hold up the pace of the clinical trials in the younger kids is that we have been seeing this syndrome, caused by Covid MIS-C… probably due to the host immune response, may be due to antibodies. That fact will probably slow people down on how quickly we vaccinate little kids and watch for that.”

    So, what will the data from the clinical trials tell us?

    Not enough.

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/covid-vaccination-physician-mother-dr-nicole-saphier

  31. cdquarles says:

    Yikes. I’d never heard of someone undergoing that. Yes, I’d add that one, and earlier in the list than number 9.

  32. The True Nolan says:

    @jim2:”Last year she published a paper in which she claimed glyphosate caused autism, claims which I addressed almost a year ago.”
    I guess that is settled then. But not in Novella’s favor.
    Maternal glyphosate exposure causes autism-like behaviors in offspring through increased expression of soluble epoxide hydrolase
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32398374/

    “Seneff is a computer scientist who apparently is anti-vaccine and anti-GMO. In a stunning example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, she feels she can take her computer expertise and export it to biology.”

    Nice hit piece but unconvincing. Seneff has four degrees from MIT, one of which is in Biophysics. As for the “Dunning-Kruger effect” slur, my experience is that more often than not, the person who uses it is the one suffering from it. Maybe if Mr. Novella had a stronger background in hard sciences he would think more clearly. However, the best way of judging Seneff is to listen to her yourself and make up your mind.

  33. The True Nolan says:

    @cdquarels: “As someone who knows pain, I say that you don’t really understand it until …”

    I would add spinal injury as a possibility.

  34. Pinroot says:

    I’ve been looking through VAERS. There’s a lot of stuff there. I got the .csv files for 2019-2021. There are three files for each year, a ‘vaersdata.csv’, ‘vaersvax.csv’ and ‘vaerssymptoms.csv’. I looked at the number of entries for vaersdata for 2020, it was nearly 49K. The vaersdata file for 2021 has nearly 317K entries. That’s a 650% increase in only 6 months. So something is going on. I also looked through the vaerssymptoms file for “rheumatoid arthritis’ and found ~77 where is was the first symptom, and ~50 where is was either the second or third symptom. However, because of the way the files are set up, I can’t tell what type of vaccine caused the rheumatoid symptoms, so I’ve imported the files into a database (which is probably where they came from in the first place) and am trying to write sql to get that kind of info. My sql sucks, so it may be a while…

  35. David A says:

    Concerning VAERS, once again, with everything COVID, what do the numbers mean.
    The US numbers suddenly jumped to over 5 k dead. ( What exactly does that mean?)
    Did they die due to a reaction, as in from the vaccine, or from an unrelated cause, just coincidence to having taken the vaccine? Who decides to make the report? Some people say that only one to ten percent of negative vaccine reactions ever make it to VAERS. Is that true? Have there possibly been 50,000 vaccine related deaths? Why, after over 10k crossover infections to those already vaccinated, did they stop testing the vaccinated? Why did they suddenly stop the 35 plus cycle testing, and go to a much more reasonable number? So a lower number being tested with a lower cycle, and cessation of testing for those that have had the jab.

    Is natural immunity both more effective, broader agains mutations and longer lasting? Why are they ( they bring the same OWG crowd) pushing so hard to vaccinate those who have natural immunity, those who have very very little risk from the disease, and children and infants??? Why are they passing laws saying a child can get the jab even if their parents don’t want them to. Why are they wanting EVERYONE to get the jab?

    Reading the VARES report they sound like vaccine reactions. Thrombosis appears to be the most common severe reaction, and apparently that is the cause of the somewhat unique lung pattern pneumonia type damage that many who contacted the wuflu died from. The fact that the spike proteins, initially claimed to remain in the jab area, are now KNOWN to be systemic appears to be a very large red flag. That and the solid evidence that the spike protein itself can be very problematic in multiple organs should place an immediate hold on vaccine jabs except to the very vulnerable. There is concern and evidence that the negative reactions are made worse by the second dose, and the talked about boosters may be even worse.

    There are doctors showing that the current falloff of this most recent wave is perfectly natural, and just as rapid or more so in many areas where the jab is seldom used.

    So many questions, and a government moratorium on asking them.

  36. jim2 says:

    TTN said: “However, the best way of judging Seneff is to listen to her yourself and make up your mind.”

    Yes, I read a good bit of the paper linked above. As I commented afterwards, it looks like a lot of speculation. That’s why I sought more information about her. Degrees don’t do it for me.

  37. jim2 says:

    Maria Bartiromo on her show, Sunday Morning Futures, had Dr. Pierre Kory and Sen. Johnson on to discuss Ivermection.

    https://dryburgh.com/ivermectin-pierre-kory/

    Sen. Johnson was recently kicked off ewe-tube for discussing HCQ.

    https://nypost.com/2021/06/11/youtube-suspends-gop-sen-ron-johnson-for-7-days-over-covid-treatment-video/

    Bartiomo does not hold back on her criticism of the government for this. Apparently, the Ivermectin incident is just one of many, just not as publicized, of the government kow-towing to big pharma to help it make money.

    https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/biden-coronavirus-antiviral-3-billion-funding/602063/

  38. jim2 says:

    Revisiting the probability of COVID ADE, there is the fact that the Dengue Fever comes in 4 different serotypes. A serotype is a variant of a virus that is recognized as a distinct entity by the immune system. That is, the human immune system sees the 4 different serotypes of dengue fever as unique viruses. This is what make ADE work with dengue.

    Thus far, no COVID variant is a serotype.

    “What about with variants because neutralising antibodies to an older version of the virus might not be enough? This is analogous to the situation with dengue where it is not old and new versions of the virus but four different serotypes that may infect sequentially,” she tweeted.

    “With repeat dengue infection, where low levels of antibodies from the first infection with 1 type of virus or vaccination can trigger enhanced/severe disease when a person does get subsequently infected with a type to which there is not good neutralising antibody,” Dr. Kang added.

    Noting that with SARS-CoV2 vaccines based on older virus/spike, the ability to neutralise new variants is lower but not absent, Dr. Kang said vaccines seem to be working.

    These facts would suggest ADE isn’t likely for COVID, at least right now. COVID will continue to mutate, so a serotype could emerge at a later date. This is why booster shots are being discussed. They would be designed to trigger an immune response to a broader set of variations of COVID.

    https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/covid-19-only-way-to-decrease-variants-of-covid-19-is-by-increasing-vaccination-says-kang/article34650308.ece

  39. YMMV says:

    Dr. Campbell asks why IVM is being hushed up by the powers that be when there is sufficient evidence to explore its use. Not a new question, but it demands an answer.

    And this, “Delta variant of Covid-19 strictly IS a common cold virus”. Hmmmm….
    https://motls.blogspot.com/2021/06/delta-variant-of-covid-19-strictly-is.html#more

    From a comment there:
    The 1890 pandemic is believed to have been caused by the OC43 coronavirus on its “inaugural world tour”, after which it has remained as one of the common cold viruses.

  40. AC Osborn says:

    jim2 says: 20 June 2021 at 3:55 pm
    “Thus far, no COVID variant is a serotype. ”
    Are you unaware that SAR1 mRNA vaccines produced ADE?
    In the vaccinated Ferrets it killed the Ferrets when they became infected with the natural virus.
    Which is why there was no SARS1 Vaccine produced.
    It is very common in all coronaviruses.

  41. jim2 says:

    Yes, ACO, the topic has been brought up here many times.

    A reference: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-00462-y

  42. jim2 says:

    Looks like disease-enhancing antibodies have been found in some patient that had covid 19.

    “We found that when infection-enhancing antibodies bind to a specific site on the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, the antibodies directly cause a conformational change in the spike protein, resulting in the increased infectivity of SARS-CoV-2. Neutralizing antibodies recognize the RBD, whereas infection-enhancing antibodies recognize specific sites of the N-terminal domain (NTD),” explains Professor Hisashi Arase. “Furthermore, the production of infection-enhancing antibodies attenuated the ability of neutralizing antibodies to prevent infection.”

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2021-05/ou-ate052421.php

  43. jim2 says:

    Sen. Ron Johnson on VAERS System, Vaccine Deaths and YouTube Censorship: “They’re Suppressing the information and American People are Paying the Price” (VIDEO)

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/06/sen-ron-johnson-vaers-system-vaccine-deaths-youtube-censorship-suppressing-information-american-people-paying-price-video/

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