India vs Israel – Time To Admit Ivermectin Works?

I did a quick couple of searches on a few different countries and their use of Ivermectin. I was surprised at the number that showed up as having active use (probably ought not have been surprised, but I was). In particular, it looks like the example of Uttar Pradesh has convince much of the rest of India to just get on with it.

An example of the DuckDuckGo results for
“India ivermectin use by state”, the entire top page, not filtered nor sorted. Only change is that I removed the redundant “Search Domain Foo.Bar” text:

India’s Largest State Nearly COVID-Free After Using …
https://www.worthynews.com/61607-indias-largest-state-nearly-covid-free-after-using-alternative-drug

Other Indian states are also due to the increase use of the Ivermectin drug as India, a nation of roughly 1.4 billion people, struggles to distribute enough vaccines. India’s rollout of Ivermectin was due to pressure from the World Health Organization to approve more alternative COVID-19 prevention methods.

HUGE: Uttar Pradesh, India Announces State Is COVID-19 …
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/huge-uttar-pradesh-india-announces-state-covid-19-free-proving-effectiveness-deworming-drug-ivermectin/

Uttar Pradesh is the leading state in India to use Ivermectin as early and preventatively in all family contacts. And this state is one of the five lowest COVID cases of all states in India despite having only a low vaccination rate of 5.8% fully vaccinated compared to the USA that has 54% fully vaccinated.

The Undeniable Ivermectin Miracle in India’s 240m …
https://newsrescue.com/the-undeniable-ivermectin-miracle-indias-240m-populated-largest-state-uttar-pradesh-horowitz/

India’s Uttar Pradesh moving towards being Covid free, Ivermectin central to virus control. Related: NewsRescue-Panacea “Wonder Drug” Ivermectin Has Anti-Cancer, Anti-Covid, Anti-MS, Anti-HIV and Many More Properties – Studies Last year, the northern state of Uttar Pradesh began dispensing ivermectin liberally and encouraging people to take it early on and even preventively.

Ivermectin Wins in India | The Wentworth Report
https://wentworthreport.com/2021/09/11/ivermectin-wins-in-india/

On August 15, Kerala accounted for 18,582 of India’s 32,937 new cases and 102 of India’s 417 new deaths. By contrast, the Ivermectin-using state of Delhi, with nearly the same population size, recorded only 53 new cases and ZERO deaths. In comparison, Uttar Pradesh, with almost eight times as many inhabitants, had only 30 new cases and ONE …

Horowitz: Heavily vaccinated state accounts for 65% of …
https://patriotdailypress.org/2021/09/17/horowitz-heavily-vaccinated-state-accounts-for-65-of-indias-covid-cases-after-rejecting-ivermectin/

several columns on the miracle of Uttar Pradesh, India’s largest state, which has essentially eradicated COVID with the universal use of ivermectin. In general, most of India experienced very few COVID cases since the large spring wave because there is a great deal of immunity built up. However, Uttar Pradesh, despite its population of 240 …

Ivermectin obliterates 97 percent of Delhi cases …
https://www.thedesertreview.com/news/national/ivermectin-obliterates-97-percent-of-delhi-cases/article_6a3be6b2-c31f-11eb-836d-2722d2325a08.html

The fatal mistake would have been to NOT use Ivermectin. Mercifully they used it, and they saved Delhi. But tragically, Tamil Nadu did not, and their state was devastated. Their new cases rose from 10,986 to 36,184 – a tripling. No one can hide that. Their refusal to use Ivermectin harmed them.

India’s Ivermectin Blackout – Part III: The Lesson of …
https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout—part-iii-the-lesson-of-kerala/article_ccecb97e-044e-11ec-9112-2b31ae87887a.html

On August 15, Kerala accounted for 18,582 of India’s 32,937 new cases and 102 of India’s 417 new deaths. By contrast, the Ivermectin-using state of Delhi, with nearly the same population size, recorded only 53 new cases and ZERO deaths. In comparison, Uttar Pradesh, with almost eight times as many inhabitants, had only 30 new cases and ONE death.

Indian State Will Offer Ivermectin To Entire Adult …
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/05/11/indian-state-will-offer-ivermectin-to-entire-adult-population—even-as-who-warns-against-its-use-as-covid-19-treatment/

May 11, 2021Topline. The World Health Organisation warned against the use of the anti-parasitic drug Ivermectin in treating Covid-19 on Tuesday after the Indian state of Goa announced it would give the drug …
Horowitz: The unmistakable ivermectin miracle in the …
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-the-unmistakable-ivermectin-miracle-in-the-indian-state-of-uttar-pradesh

Horowitz: The unmistakable ivermectin miracle in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh. Uttar Pradesh might sound obscure to most Americans, but it is the most populated state in India, with urban areas that rival the most densely populated cities in the U.S. Yet, miraculously, despite housing a population of 240 million people, this northern state …

India Could Sentence WHO Chief Scientist to Death for …
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/06/india-could-sentence-who-chief-scientist-to-death-for-misleading-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html

There is the claim that the Indian States that used Ivermectin had far better outcomes and far fewer COVID deaths than the Indian states that did not use Ivermectin. Among the most prominent examples include the Ivermectin areas of Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, and Goa where cases dropped 98%, 97%, 94%, and 86%, respectively. By contrast …

There is a little redundancy in the list, but plenty of information too. This bit from the last link for example:

Among the most prominent examples include the Ivermectin areas of Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, and Goa where cases dropped 98%, 97%, 94%, and 86%, respectively. By contrast, Tamil Nadu opted out of Ivermectin. As a result, their cases skyrocketed and rose to the highest in India. Tamil Nadu deaths increased ten-fold.

In a test of over 4000 people in India (3000+ took Ivermectin) and over 1000 did not. The results were that 2% Ivermectin takers had PCR test confirmed COVID and 11.7% non-takers had PCR test confirmed COVID. The people were given two 21 mg doses of Ivermectin. This costs less than 1 penny per person.

Note that they gave only 2 doses of Ivermectin in the test series and it does not state over what time period. At least one Indian study gave the dose one time per month, meaning that for about 1/2 the month there was no effective dose level in the subjects. FLCCC moved to a “one a week” dose and cut infections to zero in their cohort (it had been once every 2 weeks and they still had 90-something percent prevention).

Cutting cases by 90-97% reduces R0 to where the virus will die out in a population.

The Horowitz article points out that we’ve got something better than “studies”, we have an “existence proof” (though he doesn’t call it that).

Uttar Pradesh might sound obscure to most Americans, but it is the most populated state in India, with urban areas that rival the most densely populated cities in the U.S. Yet, miraculously, despite housing a population of 240 million people, this northern state has been averaging only 24 cases and 0-2 deaths per day in recent months. Despite its size — roughly 73% of the U.S. population — it ranked dead last in cases per capita last week among India’s 36 states. What gives?

The answer likely lies in the 10-letter “I-word” that you are not allowed to mention on social media: ivermectin. Evidently, the global medical junta doesn’t like the over 60 studies vouching for the efficacy of ivermectin against SARS-CoV-2, especially when used early, but there is something better than a study: pure reality of lived experience.

The Forbes article is from last May, so plenty of time to have been done. A “Dig Here!” on that State as they went to full IVM would be interesting. Forbes, of course, kisses the ring of W.H.O. et. al. with various weazly wording wrapped around the actual facts:

KEY FACTS
The state health minister of Goa, Vishwajit Rane, said Monday that people will be given 12 mg of Ivermectin for a period of five days as prophylaxis to protect against Covid-19.

Rane claimed that the state government’s decision was based on studies by expert panels from the UK, Italy, Spain and Japan which found a statistically significant reduction in mortality and recovery time in patients with Covid-19, without offering any specifics.

On Tuesday, the World Health Organisation’s Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan warned that the global health body recommends against the use of Ivermectin for COVID-19 except within clinical trials.

Goa—one of India’s smallest states by population—has witnessed a recent surge in Covid-19 cases and on Tuesday it reported 3,124 new cases and 75 fatalities on Tuesday evening.

So looks to me like the various States of India have watched the results in each State and are catching clue very fast. W.H.O. be damned.

According to:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=USA~IND~ISR

It is while India is at most 14% fully vaccinated and about 28% with a single poke. So what’s their chart look like?

India - Daily New Cases 18 Sept 2021

India – Daily New Cases 18 Sept 2021

India Daily Deaths 18 Sept 2021

India Daily Deaths 18 Sept 2021

India Newly Infected vs Recovered 18 Sept 2021

India Newly Infected vs Recovered 18 Sept 2021

I note that cases and deaths peak in early May just as the W.H.O. were saying “Don’t Do It!” and Goa was saying “Oh yes we will”, and then they plunge after that as States see the results of each choice.

I find it interesting that, despite being at substantially the same latitude, Israel has their peaks and valleys at different dates. I suspect the valley in May was from the intense vaccination push, and then as the 40% / month antibody decay sets in, they get the current peak of cases.

Israel Daily New Cases 18 Sept 2021

Israel Daily New Cases 18 Sept 2021

Israel Daily Deaths 18 Sept 2021

Israel Daily Deaths 18 Sept 2021

Israel Infected vs Recovered 18 Sept 2021

Israel Infected vs Recovered 18 Sept 2021

This looks to me like an existence proof that Ivermectin works and vaccination is just a pause button that runs out in 6 to 9 months.

That Patriot Daily Press article seems to find the same thing:

The Indian state of Kerala has 3% of India’s population, and 67% of its inhabitants have at least one vaccination. One would expect Kerala’s COVID cases to be so low as to be invisible in a chart of India’s very low overall cases. Yet this state of just 33 million people accounted for 65% of all of India’s cases on Thursday, and even more in recent weeks. It has essentially been the only state experiencing a surge in recent months. It also happens to be the Indian state that has rejected ivermectin.

UPDATE

I decided to just stick a couple of additional articles I found while doing searches on things like “Spain Ivermectin” and “Peru Ivermectin” and such. I don’t see the need for a whole article on them, but it would be a shame to just toss the information.

This one popped up when searching on Spain. Given the success in some South American Spanish speaking countries, I’d expect to see other Spanish speaking countries noticing. I’d likely get more results if I did the search in Spanish with a history of Spanish in my search history:

Doctors cure 6,000 patients with Covid-19 with Ivermectin
https://dominicantoday.com/dr/covid-19/2020/09/29/doctors-cure-6000-patients-with-covid-19-with-ivermectin/

Group of doctors highlight results of successes in more than 6,000 patients with Covid-19 treated with the drug ivermectin. Santo Domingo, DR At least 6,000 Covid-19 positive patients have been treated with excellent results using the drug ivermectin, by doctors belonging to the Rescue group, with health facilities located in Puerto Plata, La Romana, and Punta Cana. The antiparasitic and …

Then this was interesting:

https://www.aestheticsadvisor.com/2021/07/natural-alternatives-to-ivermectin.html

It starts off with a nice summary of ivermectin successes, but then says if you can’t get it, there’s other things you can try / do. Each one gets an expanatory block of text, but since we’ve gone over most of them I’m just putting the headings for most. Things new to me will get some text. Hit the link if this is new to you:

1. Vitamin D3
2. Quercetin (Mentions elderberry, cranberry and onions as good sources)
3. Vitamin C
4. Zinc
5. Curcumin and Turmeric

There are 4 studies of curcumin in COVID-19 published, including 3 double-blind randomized controlled trials and 1 review. And the results are promising.

It has also demonstrated antiviral effects against a range of respiratory viruses, including influenza A virus and others (Ref). Computer models suggest curcumin may interfere with viral entry into cells as well as viral replication inside cells (Ref). Numerous preclinical studies indicate curcumin may activate antiviral immunity; at the same time, curcumin appears to inhibit infection-induced inflammatory signaling and promote anti-inflammatory processes, reducing the potential for a cytokine storm and ARDS and protecting other organ systems (Ref). By suppressing inflammation, curcumin has the potential to help mitigate complications and sequelae of severe acute viral respiratory infections (Ref).

Curcumin also acts as natural zinc ionophores and can promote the cellular uptake of zinc and can be used with zinc to increase the effectiveness of these compounds in the inhibition of the virus (Ref).

Curcumin has been demonstrated (Ref) to suppress several inflammatory cytokines and mediators of their release such as tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha), IL-1, IL-8 and nitric oxide synthase.

6. Melatonin

Laboratory and animal studies suggest that melatonin enhances immune response by increasing the proliferation and maturation of natural killer cells, T and B lymphocytes, granulocytes and monocytes . Melatonin also appears to have anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects [Source].

7. Glutathione, NAC and COVID-19

Glutathione and Zinc

To improve your glutathione, you need zinc, and zinc in combination with hydroxychloroquine (a zinc ionophore or zinc transporter) has been shown effective in the treatment of COVID-19.
[…]
Glutathione and Selenium

Selenium is also important, as some of the enzymes involved in glutathione production are selenium-dependent.

8. Green Tea (EGCG)

I find it interesting that we get a glimpse of why zinc and selenium matter in the Glutathione path.

A search on Portugal showed similar positive statements:

Portuguese doctors support Ivermectin … – Portugal Resident
https://www.portugalresident.com/portuguese-doctors-support-ivermectin-to-treat-early-signs-of-covid-19/
Portuguese doctors support Ivermectin to treat early signs of Covid-19. Portuguese doctors may be divided over the use of anti-parasitic medication Ivermectin to treat the early stages of Covid-19, but those that support it are adamant that it works. One of a group that is pushing for wider availability of the drug says he won’t be taking up …

Ivermectin Debate Intensifies in Portugal as use as …
https://trialsitenews.com/ivermectin-debate-intensifies-in-portugal-as-use-as-prophylaxis-grows-among-physicians/
As recently reported in the Portugal Resident, doctors such as Antonio Pedtro Machado recently told local media Correio da Manhã that “from the north to the south of the country have resorted to Ivermectin to ensure residents don’t develop the most serious forms of COVID-19.” In many parts of this nation, Ivermectin is the drug of choice …

So when comparing countries on vaccination status we’ll also need to figure out their Ivermectin use.

Peru has been at it longer, so a lot pops up on a Peru search. I find it interesting that the FUD Folks have shown up to write hand wringing Oh Noes! articles about Peru. This first one claiming it’s all about the Lambda and not about the government cancelling ivermectin. Yeah, right…

Ivermectin Was Not a Miracle Drug in Peru | Houston Press
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/ivermectin-was-not-a-miracle-drug-in-peru-11828515
The giant uptick in deaths in Peru starting in the winter of 2020 has a much more reasonable possible cause than the new government cancelling the use of ivermectin: the Lambda variant.

So how come the Lambda Variant isn’t overrunning India then? Eh?

Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 …
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/
For example, Peru had a very high death toll from COVID-19 early on in the pandemic. Based on observational evidence, the Peruvian government approved ivermectin for use against COVID-19 in May 2020.
After implementation, death rates in 8 states were reduced between 64% and 91% over a two-month period. Another analysis of Peruvian …

Ivermectin in Peru – results that save lives – Medical …
https://medicalupdateonline.com/2021/03/ivermectin-in-peru-results-that-save-lives/
Ivermectin in Peru – results that save lives. Dr David Scheim explains how the original analysis factored out confounders and showed a 74% reduction in deaths at 30 days as a result of intensive ivermectin distribution. In their earlier paper Dr Scheim and his colleagues explored all of the possible confounding factors including …

Real-World Evidence: The Case of Peru – TrialSiteNews
https://trialsitenews.com/real-world-evidence-the-case-of-peru/
Causality Between Ivermectin and COVID-19 Infection Fatality Rate. Introduction. Much has been said much about Peru and its use of Ivermectin as a treatment for the coronavirus. The South American country has been a point of reference regarding its use. The Peruvian government approved the use of Ivermectin by decree on May 8.

Real world evidence from Peru and Colombia confirms …
https://medicalupdateonline.com/2021/03/real-world-evidence-from-peru-and-colombia-confirms-ivermectin-safe-and-effective/
Real world evidence from Peru and Colombia confirms ivermectin safe and effective. … The real world evidence about ivermectin combined with the findings from meta-analyses of clinical trials provide compelling evidence for the safety and effectiveness of ivermectin, according to Dr David Scheim.

Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy …
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/
Similar to the individual cities in Brazil that measured large decreases in case counts soon after distributing ivermectin in comparison to neighboring cities without such campaigns, in Peru, the government approved the use of ivermectin by decree on May 8, 2020, solely based on the in vitro study by Caly et al from Australia. 48 Soon after …

COVID deaths plunge after major world city introduces …
https://www.citizensjournal.us/covid-deaths-plunge-after-major-world-city-introduces-ivermectin/
Chamie-Quintero also conducted a study in Peru, where the government approved ivermectin as a treatment for the virus in May 2020. In the 24 Peruvian states that adopted early use of ivermectin treatment, excess deaths plummeted on average by 59% just 30 days after the peak death rate. And it had dropped 75% after 45 days in those over 60 years …

So looks like all of Latin America is not going to just accept the UN / W.H.O. / GEBs crap.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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85 Responses to India vs Israel – Time To Admit Ivermectin Works?

  1. cdquarles says:

    The whole of India is tropical or subtropical. It would be interesting to see what a chart with their monsoon season looks like, as well as elevation. It would be nice to know what kind of tests and what their sensitivities and specificities are. Crucially, it would be nice to know, what the true prevalence is, confirmed by culture and microscopy.

  2. David A says:

    Thanks EM, wraps up India well.
    Yep, the smear on Ivermectin is done. Uttar Pradesh used a very effective distribution method. They did contact tracing and gave not only the patient, but there entire family and other contacts Ivermectin. Lockdowns in India were a big problem. What happens when you restrict a very dense population to crowded indoor locations, and dozens often shared a single restroom? ( far worse then the official numbers )

    They could not test to the extent of the US, so they focused on case, contacts, Ivermectin. They broke the RO of the Virus way below one. Due to their focused testing the peak positive rate was almost 20 percent. Currently most states in the providence of Uttar Pradesh had zero positive. In 226,000 targeted tests, they had a positive rate of .01 percent. They crushed it.

    A word of note about the India cases. There is fairly strong evidence, excess deaths and large group cremations, that Covid cases and deaths were considerably higher then the official records. After much reading I think it likely that deaths were three to four times the official numbers. The excess deaths were higher, but so many distribution items and essentials broke down with lockdowns. Starvation or severe malnutrition led to many deaths.

    And while natural immunity is a factor, it is not nearly the factor one may think. The reason is India’s incredible population density. It is estimated that about fifty to 60 percent eventually acquired natural immunity. At 50 percent India’s remaining population density is still 18 times Australia and about 3.5 times the US. That is still a lot of fuel.

    There is growing evidence of vaccine harm. I posted a link in Wood some may like to see. The reported numbers are heavily jiggered. I think it likely that India was very fortunate that their vaccinated rate was so low.

  3. E.M.Smith says:

    I’ve added an update with some links to Latin American counties and Spain / Portugal. Looks like the whole Latin complex is going to give the single finger salute to the GEBs / UN plan…

  4. AC Osborn says:

    EM, I have 2 Vaccine proponents, one is actually in the business, on my local football forum.
    I have consistently pointed out the studies on HCQ & Ivermectin and how they work.
    They totally deny the evidence, saying the studies are poor, the doctors and scientists are lying, even whole governments like India and Mexico are lying.
    It is totally impossible to get through to them, for them the only answer is Vaccines, regardless of costs or anything else.
    Even now when they know they are not working “as advertised”, especially by them, they say it is the only thing that works.
    They are unshakable in their faith and antagonism towards medical intervention.
    They totally deny the Vaccine adverse effects data, repeating the party line that there is “no evidence” that they were caused by the vaccines.
    It will take something very drastic to change their minds.

  5. David A says:

    Yep, worth the watch. We knew if Dr Cole was correct , zero reason to disbelieve him, it would be hard to hide. The video shows how it is done.
    Jim previously linked to a MSM affiliate that sent out an open request for stories about unvaccinated friends or relatives dying from Covid. Instead the got inundated with people telling vaccine horror stories.

  6. Nabrid Obcsje says:

    I recently spent a month in Texas, The family I was visiting while there were all un-vaccinated. In mid-August the teenage son returned to school and within a few days came home sick . All the other members of the family then became ill and tested positive for Covid. The parents were both offered a vaccination but they refused. Instead they were both given a course of IVM and other respiratory drugs. The children were not treated with IVM and they effectively shook of the illness within 3 days, the parents took longer to recover. The family have now recovered and all have also regained their sense of smell.
    Things are not what they seem to be.

  7. jim2 says:

    Proponent of treating people rather than sending them home with nothing. Mentioned IVM and HCQ.

    Peter McCullough, MD testifies to Texas Senate HHS Committee

  8. E.M.Smith says:

    Another one reporting the same stuff:
    https://www.sgtreport.com/2021/09/uttar-pradesh-government-says-early-use-of-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-positivity-deaths-low/

    He added that based on the findings from Agra, the state government sanctioned the use of Ivermectin as a prophylactic for all the contacts of Covid patients and later cleared the administration of therapeutic doses for the treatment of such patients.

    Claiming that timely introduction of Ivermectin since the first wave has helped the state maintain a relatively low positivity rate despite its high population density, he said, “Despite being the state with the largest population base and a high population density, we have maintained a relatively low positivity rate and cases per million of population”.

  9. The True Nolan says:

    @AC Osborn: “It is totally impossible to get through to them, for them the only answer is Vaccines, regardless of costs or anything else.”

    I know what you mean. I have friends and family with the same monomania. I am sure you have experienced the process of explaining some pertinent fact or situation only to have them respond with something which tells you they never even processed what you just said. You could as well have told them “quack quack quack quack” and they would have responded just as appropriately.

    Gilliver’s Travels tells of the people of Laputa who had servants with “flappers”, inflated bladders on sticks. When (in the servant’s opinion) it was needed for their master to hear something, the servant would strike the master’s ear with the flapper as a signal to listen to what was said. Apparently flappers have become a reality, except that instead of using bladders on sticks we now have talking heads and bureaucrats who command what we will hear or not hear.

  10. krishna gans says:

    As you mentioned curcumin it’s good to know that taken together with black pepper that ameiliorets the intake of curcumin in the body.

    What also seems to be a good natural food to take is the oil of black seed, Nigella sativa, researches have shown.

    ACC600 (NAC) seems to be used even in hospitals for COV-19.

    Algovir, a nasal spray protects by a protective layer of red algae (carragelose) the nasal cells against coryza, and, as University of Erlangen, Germany found out, probably COV-19.
    https://www.fau.eu/2021/04/22/news/research/nasal-spray-against-covid-19/
    Virologists in Erlangen report promising initial study results for an active ingredient from red algae.

  11. E.M.Smith says:

    How does that go?…
    For every problem that is big and complex there is an answer that is simple, obvious, and wrong.

    Most folks prefer a simple and wrong answer to thinking about complex things.

  12. philjourdan says:

    The English speaking world will never admit it. They cannot admit they are wrong. Because they are progressives. The rest of the world just wants people to survive, so they will admit it. They are not the ghouls we have running the government,

  13. E.M.Smith says:

    @Jim2:

    That Dr. McCullough video has him asking some pointed questions that really do need answers… Like why so many folks think you can’t treat a virus.

  14. Paul, Somerset says:

    With the hedgerows laden with ripe elderberries in England right now, just a reminder that raw ones give most people stomach ache. But cooked, they’re fine. I just comb the berries off the stalks with a fork, and heat them briefly with a tin of prepper custard. Lovely.
    Also, haw berries are a great source of quercetin, and they are fine to eat raw. Just chew or suck the flesh off, and spit out the stones. It’s what the hawthorn tree wants you to do! My garden is enclosed by ancient, ten-foot thick hedgerow, and a lot of it is hawthorn, with thousands of red berries covering it right now.

  15. E.M.Smith says:

    Oddly, I think I’ve never tasted an Elderberry. The pictures of them look like things I was told to not eat as a kid in the woods with Dad… And I think I see why:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambucus

    Sambucus is a genus of flowering plants in the family Adoxaceae. The various species are commonly called elder or elderberry. The genus was formerly placed in the honeysuckle family, Caprifoliaceae, but was reclassified as Adoxaceae due to genetic and morphological comparisons to plants in the genus Adoxa.
    […]
    Toxicity
    Although the cooked berries (pulp and skin) of most species of Sambucus are edible, the uncooked berries and other parts of plants from this genus are poisonous. Leaves, twigs, branches, seeds, roots, flowers, and berries of Sambucus plants produce cyanogenic glycosides, which have toxic properties. Ingesting a sufficient quantity of cyanogenic glycosides from berry juice, flower tea, or beverages made from fresh leaves, branches, and fruit has been shown to cause illness, including nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, and weakness. In August 1983, a group of 25 people in Monterey County, California, became suddenly ill by ingesting elderberry juice pressed from fresh, uncooked Sambucus mexicana berries, leaves, and stems. The density of cyanogenic glycosides is higher in tea made from flowers (or leaves) than from the berries.

    The seeds of Sambucus callicarpa are poisonous and may cause vomiting or diarrhea.

    Interesting that here, hawthorn is often a different plant. Part of the rose family:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crataegus

    Crataegus (/krəˈtiːɡəs/), commonly called hawthorn, quickthorn, thornapple, May-tree, whitethorn, or hawberry, is a genus of several hundred species of shrubs and trees in the family Rosaceae, native to temperate regions of the Northern Hemisphere in Europe, Asia, North Africa, and North America. The name “hawthorn” was originally applied to the species native to northern Europe, especially the common hawthorn C. monogyna, and the unmodified name is often so used in Britain and Ireland. The name is now also applied to the entire genus and to the related Asian genus Rhaphiolepis.

    Etymology
    The generic epithet, Crataegus, is derived from the Greek kratos “strength” because of the great strength of the wood and akis “sharp”, referring to the thorns of some species. The name haw, originally an Old English term for hedge (from the Anglo-Saxon term haguthorn, “a fence with thorns”), also applies to the fruit.

    So looks like in older English Hawthorn is any hedge with thorns…

    The fruit, sometimes known as a “haw”, is berry-like but structurally a pome containing from one to five pyrenes that resemble the “stones” of plums, peaches, etc., which are drupaceous fruit in the same subfamily.

    Taxonomy
    The number of species in the genus depends on taxonomic interpretation. Some botanists in the past recognised 1000 or more species, many of which are apomictic microspecies. A reasonable number is estimated to be 200 species.

    Good luck keeping all those variations sorted…

    So now I’m not sure if your hedge is Hawthorn berries or Elderberries ;-)

    Two people separated by a common language, but now with the “enhancement” of botanical Latin to make it more obscure 8-0

  16. Sandy McClintock says:

    @AC Osborn: I have the same difficulties when ‘discussing’ climate change with AGW Activists. It would be interesting to test if there is a high correlation between belief in AGW and disbelief in Ivermectin. In other words those that question ‘the official narrative’ for AGW also do the same for ‘the official narrative’ for Ivermectin.

  17. Paul, Somerset says:

    Sorry. I didn’t make myself clear. It’s a traditional hedgerow for this part of the world – hawthorn and blackthorn carefully laid and relaid over the centuries to keep livestock in (and intruders out). And it’s currently laden with red haws, as well as big black sloes on the blackthorn. The sloes are like astringent, sharp plums, and are mostly used to flavour gin, though I happily eat them raw as well.

    The elder is really just a pervasive weed that has fixed its way into the hedge. I tolerate it because I like having the crop of berries to look forward to every autumn. Honestly, a brief but thorough heating in custard makes the berries fine to consume, and leaves the custard an attractive shade of mauve as well.

    Haw berries are interesting as a survival fruit, because the juice naturally sets and hardens. If you collect a large number of them, and squeeze and knead them into a paste and pick out the stones, they become hard lump which you can later tear chunks from, and which lasts for years.

  18. E.M.Smith says:

    Ah, I see, a mixed hedge.

    FWIW, I think Dad was just giving 7 year old “Me” the simple version and knew how to make them edible, but didn’t want to confuse “the kid”…

  19. E.M.Smith says:

    Interesting… Looks like we have 3 or so subspecies of Black Elderberry in California (each color on the map is a different subspecies)

    From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambucus_nigra

  20. jim2 says:

    AUSTIN, Texas — Conventional is not the way Tom Schnorr operates. He owns Austin Compounding Pharmacy.

    Traditional pharmacies dispense standard manufactured drugs, but Schnorr is licensed to mix and tailor the drug to the patient. He said that, right now, most people want the drug Ivermectin. Schnorr says he gets 300 prescriptions a day.

    His website shows “COVID ORDERS.” The page lists more than a dozen drugs. The first 10 items are prescription-only, and Schnorr said not everyone needed every drug. Number one, Ivermectin, he said is needed by all.

    https://www.kvue.com/article/news/investigations/defenders/austin-pharmacist-gets-300-prescriptions-a-day-for-ivermectin/269-9ab2ac55-7147-4b59-af79-5d3a41f656f2

  21. jim2 says:

    In recent months, the drug has become popular as a treatment for COVID-19. While most doctors, in line with the CDC and FDA, refuse to prescribe the drug, a few do.

    Dr. Cliff Porter of Texas Direct Medical Care in Austin told News 10 he has prescribed the drug to hundreds of patients in the past year despite the fact that it is not FDA approved to be used as a COVID-19 treatment.

    Porter said the drug is safe and resistance to its use is largely politically motivated.

    “Some of these larger corporate-like clinics get stuck in an algorithm and they’re waiting for the CDC to tell them what to do,” Dr. Porter said.

    “And the CDC and NIH, they develop data over months to years to come up with guidelines. Well, that’s way behind for the person who is coming to my clinic this week. We have to come up with things immediately,” he said.

    Dr. Porter says because most doctors refuse to prescribe the drug, he has seen desperate patients from all over the state and country. In addition to Ivermectin, he also offers another controversial treatment drug– hydroxychloroquine.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/austin-doctor-prescribing-anti-parasite-drug-to-covid-19-patients-says-resistance-is-politically-motivated/ar-AAOz4OV

  22. E.M.Smith says:

    Frankly, were I afflicted and symptomatic, I’d just get a friend to ask their Doctor for a prescription of HCQ as they were headed to the Amazon on a camping trip… then they could share ;-)

    OTOH, what I really did was score a bottle of Quercetin w/ D3 at the heath food store ($16) and put it on the shelf. IFF for some reason I miss my Ivermectin dose or “whatever” then I’ve got a fallback treatment with it and zinc in hand and ready to go.

    I figure with 2 out of 3 common working treatments in hand, I really don’t need to stock the 3rd ;-)

  23. H.R. says:

    @E.M. – And then there’s always gin and tonic with a zinc chaser.

    I switched from the tonic water to Ivermectin because I had an eye problem about 5 months ago. If left untreated, it would have led to blindness.

    I can’t say it was an accelerated reaction to the quinine. As I understand it, it takes 10 years +/- before the known eye problems occur. But we are unique and I figured the switch to Ivermectin would be for the best, just in case I was susceptible to quinine-induced eye problems and the 10 years didn’t apply to me.

    I have a follow-up next week and will either get a 3rd shot in the eye (very weird thing to have someone stick a needle in your eye), or not. I may require shots in the eye periodically for the rest of my days. We’ll see.

    Oh, the damage to the retina happens to diabetics. I thought that might be the real cause, but the ophthalmologist said on the very first visit that it was not related to diabetes nor was it a recurrence of histoplasmosis, which gave me about 25% blindness in my central vision in both eyes.

    He’s not really sure what caused this incident. The majority of the patients he treats are diabetic or there is a hereditary component. Histoplasmosis in the eyes is rare. He treats only one or two cases a year, and sometimes not even that. It wasn’t that so….???? He’ll just be keeping an eye on things.

  24. E.M.Smith says:

    @H.R.:

    Hope the best for you…

    FWIW, I plan a ‘rotation’ about once a year, or maybe twice, to some other method, then back. I figure that “drying out”: every so often is likely a good thing, just in case there is some long term build up issue.

    Last year I just took time off for a few weeks, as we were doing a lot more “hunker down at home” and not meeting folks. This year I expect to do the Quercetin / Zinc for a couple of weeks.

    Either that or find a secluded camping and fishing spot with nobody around and just skip it for a week or two… We’ll see.

    BTW, with my ears being dodgy already, it was the potential for ear issues / hearing loss that had me only use the quinine water sparingly until I could find something better:
    https://www.drugs.com/sfx/quinine-side-effects.html

    Has a pretty good laundry list of “issues”…

  25. cdquarles says:

    Histoplasmosis is a thing, particularly in West Central AL. Typically, there, it is a lung disease. Yes, very rare for it to be ocular. The organism that causes it is often found in bat guano, at least in the parts of AL where it is more common.

  26. H.R. says:

    @cdq – When I was first diagnosed with histo, I read up on it. I didn’t recall reading that bats spread it. I thought it was only birds.

    Where histoplasmosis exists, it seems everyone gets it and generally in childhood. People just can’t escape it for long so you get hit early. I’d guess it would be the rarest thing for an adult to come down with it it they lived in an area with histoplasmosis. It would be an a adult that moved into a histo area. Yup. They are going to get it. I didn’t know it was in Alabama.

    When you get it, symptoms are a cough/cold or very mild, short flu. Then that’s it and in most people, it never recurs. It’s like chicken pox recurring as shingles, though way less frequently than that with histoplasmosis.

    I knew the lungs were a common spot and other organs may get the recurrence. I can’t remember the other organs but the lungs are where it most often recurs, probably because that’s where it hits in the initial incident.

    Yeah, the eyes are rare, I was told. Lucky me… not.

    I didn’t know it was in Alabama. Most people don’t even know about it. They had it as a kid and weren’t sick enough to see a doctor.

    The way most people find out that there’s even such a thing as histoplasmosis is if the see a doctor when it recurs. That’s when a problem crops up that sends and adult to the doctor. GPs and staff know about it and the specialists they send the people to see for treatment.

    Podiatrists, for example, probably heard about it once in med school and then never again. There are other branches of medicine where they really don’t know about it because they have forgotten it and they never see it.

    Harmless if you’re one and done. It can be dicey if it recurs It can be fatal if you seek treatment late. Are the lungs one of the danger spots? I don’t recall and I’ll not look it up all over again just now. At least the eyes are rare and I believe never fatal. That’s a plus.

    The other bit I picked up from my ophthalmologist was there were no reported instances of recurrence in people over age 55. I used to go in once a year for a a check-up to catch further outbreaks early. When I turned 55, the doc told me about that and said the good news was that I could save my money… and don’t come back unless I was experiencing a problem… and it wouldn’t be histo. Yay!

  27. AC Osborn says:

    I find JIm2’s arguments about the VAERS data rather pedantic.
    VAERs was introduced many years ago to monitor adverse reactions to all Vaccines, especially new ones.
    Before the vaccines were even introduced back in October 2020 the US CDC CBER department presented data to the CDC & FDA on what to expect and look for in terms of adverse effects from the mRNA vaccines when they are introduced.
    They produced a list based on experience with other vaccines of likely effects.
    It can be found here,
    https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/97349

    But here is the list anyway
    FDA Safety Surveillance of COVID 19 Vaccines :
    DRAFT
    Working list of possible adverse event outcomes
    ***Subject to change***
    Guillain-Barré syndrome
    Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis
    Transverse myelitis
    Encephalitis/myelitis/encephalomyelitis/meningoencephalitis/meningitis/encepholapathy
    Convulsions/seizures
    Stroke
    Narcolepsy and cataplexy
    Anaphylaxis
    Acute myocardial infarction
    Myocarditis/pericarditis
    Autoimmune disease
    Deaths
    Pregnancy and birth outcomes
    Other acute demyelinating diseases
    Non-anaphylactic allergic reactions
    Thrombocytopenia
    Disseminated intravascular coagulation
    Venous thromboembolism
    Arthritis and arthralgia/joint pain
    Kawasaki disease
    Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children
    Vaccine enhanced disease

    The fact that VAERs has reported those effects and more, but not in the tens, not in hundreds, not in thousands but in 10s of thousands for some of them should be a pretty big signal that there must causation.
    If correlation did not prove causation the outcomes should not have been predictable based on historical evidence.
    Treat it as an experiment, they new the input and expected to get various outputs, which they did, would that not under normal circumstances be pretty good proof of causation?

  28. Handy N Handsome says:

    I’ve stocked up here in the US on IVM, and HCQ from the “Viagra” sites based in India.
    The last one I used, was easy due to their use of paypal.
    However, they now have stopped that practice, probably due to a warning to paypal from the powers that be.
    I know it’s not for everyone, but Vets and farmers have been using the animal paste version of IVM for years.
    It’s the same dosage @.091mg/lb, or 0.2mg/kg.
    Justsayin.

  29. jim2 says:

    ACO – I’ve already posted information about the rather high frequency of heart attacks – vaccine or no vaccine. This vaccine was rolled out to the elderly, just the cohort who tend to have heart attacks, strokes, and a myriad of other health problems. Pedantic or not, correlation DOES NOT imply causation. It implies the POSSIBILITY of causation. Without detailed followup analysis, VAERS tells you zilch.

  30. Steve C says:

    @E.M. – Re quinine and hearing, I already suffered from tinnitus before all this, probably the single most maddening bodily problem I’ve ever known. Been on the tonic water for a year or so now, and I’ve noticed no apparent change at all, for better or worse. Tonic is 83mg quinine per litre, and I have one 150ml can with breakfast to wash down the vit’n’zinc pills, and another can occasionally during the day, so that’s 12.45 or 24.9mg per day, which seems a suitably “medical” amount.

    Of course, Your Metabolism May Vary. ;-)

  31. Simon Derricutt says:

    Jim2 – when they say “unvaccinated”, does this mean “never had the jab” or instead “it hasn’t yet been 14 days since they had the second of 2 jabs or it’s within 14 days of the booster”?

    Big problem in trying to get good data since it depends on how things are defined. As was said, it depends on what the definition of the word “is” is.

  32. AC Osborn says:

    “jim2 says: 19 September 2021 at 1:17 pm ” Without detailed followup analysis, VAERS tells you zilch.”

    No it does not tell you zilch.
    It tells you that these vaccines have far more Adverse Event Reports than all other vaccines put together over the last 10 years.

  33. YMMV says:

    India in the news today:
    “India plans to reopen for international tourism within 10 days, reports say, will issue free visas to first 500,000 travelers”
    https://www.rt.com/news/535258-india-covid-reopen-tourists-visas/
    According to its Health Ministry’s latest bulletin on Sunday, 30,773 new cases and 309 deaths have been registered in the past 24 hours. India’s recovery rate stands at some 97.6%. More than 14.5% of its population have been fully vaccinated.

    Good PR move. The article did not mention whether a packet of IVM would be included along with the free visa.

    “33 districts in Uttar Pradesh are now Covid-free: State govt”
    https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/lucknow-news/33-districts-in-uttar-pradesh-are-now-covid-free-state-govt-101631267966925.html

    Overall, the state has a total of 199 active cases, while the positivity rate came down to less than 0.01 per cent. There are no active cases of the coronavirus disease (Covid-19) in 33 districts of Uttar Pradesh, the state government informed on Friday. About 67 districts have not reported a single new case of the viral infection in the last 24 hours, the government said, noting the steady improvement of the Covid-19 situation in the state.

    Overall, the state has a total of 199 active cases, while the positivity rate came down to less than 0.01 per cent. The recovery rate, meanwhile, has improved to 98.7 per cent. As per the state’s health bulletin, Uttar Pradesh reported only 11 new Covid-19 cases and zero deaths in the last 24 hours. The fresh cases came out of 2.26 lakh samples that were tested in the last 24 hours. As of Friday, the state government has conducted 7.42 crore tests, according to the data published by Uttar Pradesh’s health department.

    In case you are wondering what crore and lakh are:
    A crore denotes ten million (10,000,000) and is equal to 100 lakh in the Indian numbering system.

    It’s not clear what Goa is doing. Is IVM still poo-poohed there?
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/goa/33-8-of-goas-citizens-now-fully-vaccinated/articleshow/85749654.cms
    95.4% have taken at least one dose of the vaccine

    Door-to-door vaccination continues under each health centre in batches of at least 10 people and even for those in various homes and institutions.

    A total of 54,882 persons (4.6 %) are yet to receive their first jab.

    Goa conclusion: “No” is not an option.

  34. The True Nolan says:

    @Simon D: “when they say “unvaccinated”, does this mean “never had the jab” or instead “it hasn’t yet been 14 days since they had the second of 2 jabs or it’s within 14 days of the booster”?”

    I would add that there is a footnote below the chart which says, “The number of unvaccinated people is overestimated due to the exclusion of federal doses and lack of interstate data on vaccine administration.” Additionally I have seen charts where any “unknown” status is counted as
    “unvaxxed”. Also, what exactly counts a “COVID Attack”? We have already seen the CDC doing counts where any unvaxxed with a positive test is counted as COVID, but only counted vaxxed COVID cases when the patient was hospitalized. Also, PCR tests at 40 cycles for unvaxxed and tests at 25 cycles for vaxxed. All of those factor will skew numbers to show higher unvaxxed COVID and lowed vaxxed COVID.

    The big question? Why should I believe ANYTHING released by the CDC, the WHO, the FDA, or any of the various State agencies? That is not a rhetorical question. That is a serious question. Any investigation require not merely data, but trustworthy data. Is there ANY REASON to think that those institutions are seriously interested in promoting either accurate knowledge or public health? Absent such a reason, why place any trust in their charts or data? If the official public health agencies were a used car lot, would you believe what they told you about the odometer on a car they would profit from selling?

  35. jim2 says:

    TTN – If Virginia were attempting to deceive, why would they have put in the foot notes basically disparaging their own data. Federal gov’t agencies have been lying directly and by omission, but surely you don’t believe EVERY state government agency is lying? Like with all other data, you have to do your own research.

  36. Simon Derricutt says:

    Thanks, Jim2. Looks like they could usefully distribute Ivermectin there.

    As Jason says, I’m not really sure that what I’m being told is true (for what value of “true” is it true?). Given what we currently know about the vaccines, that the protection drops at around 40% per month and that even the booster is still aimed at the initial variant, which therefore still allows infection by Delta and for those infected people to infect others (and pretty certainly there’ll be another variant come along that totally evades the vaccine).

    There’s of course also the risk that some new variant of spike protein will evade Ivermectin, though that paper from CDQ did point out that Ivermectin will lock onto and neutralise all three parts that the current spike consists of, so all 3 need to change before Ivermectin would become useless. 2 out of 3 ain’t bad….

    Most of the stuff we’ve been learning, apart from the new research, is stuff that vaccination professionals definitely have known for a long time (see Geert Vanden Bossche). Using a non-sterilising vaccine in the middle of a pandemic is so far from ideal that it carries a huge risk of making things a lot worse. At the moment it seems the authorities are a bit like the guy who jumps out of a skyscraper window. Reached the fourth floor and nothing bad has happened yet….

    I find it hard to accept EM’s idea that this result is what was planned. He could be right, though. Maybe the politicians thought that if they jabbed the stuff into peoples’ arms fast enough they could beat the evolution rate of the virus – but then the professionals should have told them “No!”.

    I do need to say thanks for all the data you’ve brought in. Still, looking at India versus Israel it sure looks like the official data on vaccine efficacy is probably “adjusted for accuracy” like the Climate data is.

  37. The True Nolan says:

    @jim2: ” surely you don’t believe EVERY state government agency is lying”

    Granted, such an idea is hard to believe, especially for those of us taught to believe in the integrity of our governmental departments. However, I know no principle of logic which tells us that simple incredulity is evidence of falsehood. Let’s run a simple test with a handful of simple questions.
    Name one Federal or State agency which responded in a timely and medically correct manner to:
    1) the improper use of the PCR test
    2) the improper redefinition (aka lying) that every positive test is a case
    3) the censorship and banning of workable alternative treatments
    4) the failure to consider natural immunity as a substitute for vaccination
    5) the misuse of the word vaccination and its subsequent “redefinition”
    6) the improper push to vaccinate large parts of the population which were at near zero risk from COVID
    7) the improper risk of vaccinating pregnant women
    8) etc etc etc

    Either of us, either you or I could go on and on with OBVIOUS “errors” which the various governmental agencies have imposed on us over the last 20 months. These are not small errors, or errors of judgement, these are not errors which any medical official acting in a professional manner would approve of. These “errors” have resulted in the panic, restriction, and arguably death of thousands of people. These agencies have been complicit in actions which have, at a minimum, denied effective health care and informed judgement to millions of people. I am very much open to any verifiable evidence of good will on the part of our officials — but so far, I am seeing just the opposite. In short, the evidence that yes, EVERY state government is lying, is MUCH STRONGER than not. I certainly can’t name one that has shown itself to be reliable. Can you name one?

  38. jim2 says:

    Well, TTN, I haven’t searched out what the States are saying about Covid, its tests, or treatements. I’ve run into a few state-generated sites, like the Virginia one. So, I can’t really answer those questions.

  39. David A says:

    TTN,
    I must agree, and there is a statist name for what you are describing.
    “The March Through The Institutions”.

    It is what they do, what they plan. Look what Obama did to the military. Look at the DOJ, the FBI, etc… Look at the schools. David Horowitz wrote a book, “ Discover the Professors”. I know of three friends that have lost their children to “ woke” indoctrination. Agenda 32 has infiltrated local governments. At my daughters high school graduation every single student that spoke talked of public service, helping , others, making a better world, Government careers. All the RINOS are not accidental.

    If you want to rule, you must have a plan. They have a plan. Books are written about it.
    The US is THE focus, the big prize because of our constitution protecting INDIVIDUAL
    liberty against group power.

  40. David A says:

    Agenda 21 of course

  41. David A says:

    BRW, Virginia is a very liberal government.
    Concerning the chart Jim Linked” Attach rates”
    ( strange term, did not see a quick definition)
    Do they mean cases?
    Symptomatic or not, or both and what percentage?
    What cycle was the average positive?
    What percentage of vaccinated vs unvaccinated was tested?
    What dates did the graphic cover? Was it from the beginning of vaccines to the August date above?
    When did vaccines start on Virginia?
    What percentage of vaccinated was beyond six months?
    ( pretty much the minimum that needs to be known for such graphics)

  42. another ian says:

    Not India or Israel but – and FWIW

    “A Plausible Hypothesis, Based On Fact”

    “But whether they do or not you can’t change facts and the facts are that either the jabs destroyed existing immunity, creating susceptible people out of resistant ones, or the virus has evolved to largely-evade the protection the jabs provided. Which it is doesn’t matter to the person who believed they were safe, and now learns — especially the hard way — that they are not.”

    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243632

  43. David A says:

    From Jim’s link

    “A COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection is when a person tests positive for SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) 14 days or more after their second dose of Pfizer or Moderna “

    Multiple studies have been done that demonstrate strongly weakened immune response after vaccination. (40 to 100 percent more get infected and have other negative health events)

    This has a TRIPLE impact on the numbers. Any science based methodology would remove these people from the data into a separate group at the minimum. ( actually any negative health conditions above the average, Covid or other adverse events, should go to the vaccinated column.
    The triple impact is significant. 1. They are removed from the vaccinated category.
    2. They are placed into the unvaccinated column. 3. They are then moved back into the vaccinated category. Those that contacted Covid in the space, about six weeks, now have natural immunity plus the vaccines. They should not be in a vaccinated category at all, but in an isolated category.

    This period, from first vaccinated until 14 days post second vaccine covers 100 percent of the vaccinated. (Almost a six week period during which time every case is incorrectly assigned to the unvaccinated in a multiplied affect on the numbers. )

    Reminds me of all the CAGW games played.

  44. David A says:

    Thinking about the jiggered numbers, if the average time of vaccinated for US vaccinated is 4 months, this six week period constitutes more then 33 percent of period where calculating Covid statistics are mislead in a multiplied manner.

  45. David A says:

    Another Ian
    Conclusion From your link…
    “ But whether they do or not you can’t change facts and the facts are that either the jabs destroyed existing immunity, creating susceptible people out of resistant ones, or the virus has evolved to largely-evade the protection the jabs provided. Which it is doesn’t matter to the person who believed they were safe, and now learns — especially the hard way — that they are not.”

    The article makes a strong case that this was never a novel virus, and the increase in cases would be impossible with the combined natural immunity, ( pre existing before COVID-19 and from Covid survivors) plus the vaccines, what is happening around the world would be impossible with effective vaccines.

    I would slightly change or add to the conclusion…
    “ But whether they do or not you can’t change facts and the facts are that either the jabs destroyed existing immunity, creating susceptible people out of resistant ones, ( AFTER OR CO- CURRENTLY WITH THE VACCINES GIVING SHORT TERM PROTECTION) or the virus has evolved to largely-evade the protection the jabs provided. Which it is doesn’t matter to the person who believed they were safe, and now learns — especially the hard way — that they are not.”

    I don’t see why the main possibilities are not orthogonal and all true to a degree.

  46. The True Nolan says:

    Pharmaceutical and medical device analyst Karen Kingston says that in 2016 the legal requirement of “informed consent” was effectively removed for drugs under an Emergency Use Authorization. (23:30- to 26:15)
    https://rumble.com/vmn25w-cv19-vaccines-are-poison-karen-kingston-9.18.21.html

  47. another ian says:

    Simon Derricutt says:
    19 September 2021 at 6:45 pm

    My aeronautical example

    If you read Len Dighton’s “Bomber” you’ll recall towards the end where a pilot is trying a copybook spin recovery in a Lancaster with half a wing shot off.

    Given what the “experts” don’t seem to have known from the start and aren’t prepared to learn I’d guess that the “Covid Lancaster” is on about the 4th turn of the spin and that the nose angle is getting pretty steep.

  48. Steve C says:

    Re the “incompetence” and “errors” in handling Operation Covid, I’d say the extreme similarity in approach between all (or at least all Western and the worst of the rest) governments is the dead giveaway. Those ain’t errors or incompetence, they’re WHO SOP. (or at least the tip of the iceberg thereof).

    Interesting read on “ConWom” this morning on the topic:
    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/the-master-plan-behind-the-covid-crisis/

    @Another Ian – Love the “spin recovery” analogy. Let us pray their nose hits the ground before the rest of us do.

  49. barkerjim says:

    I don’t know if you have seen this list before, but thought I would share it.

    https://newsletter.martingeddes.com/p/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about

  50. David A says:

    TTN regarding your link
    https://rumble.com/vmn25w-cv19-vaccines-are-poison-karen-kingston-9.18.21.html

    She was excellent and like all the whistle blowers brave. Folks, it looks like they did remove the requirement for informed consent with the experimental “vaccines “
    The sentence she read was chilling.

    Starting to look into Bill Gates history with “charity” and vaccines. If 1/2 the statements in this link are true he is one of the most evil human being to ever exist. If anyone knows more or can vouch for the veracity of these accusations please share. Did he really give 10 billion to WHO? Are his eugenics statements verified? Did 400,000 kids in India due from his vaccines? On and on.

  51. jim2 says:

    A better one:

  52. rhoda klapp says:

    Here’s notable clergyman Father Frank Hackett on Fauci, with an alternative word from Ireland, or maybe Scotland..

  53. H.R. says:

    @jim2 – I gotta get one of those t-shirts.

    Today’s word is “cockwomble.”

    I’ve forgotten if it was on radio or in the newspaper, but when I was a kid there was a vocabulary-building feature called “word for today” or maybe “word of the day”? I can’t recall.

    Anyhow, it was quite popular, particularly with those who dropped out of school to work at 16 (or younger!), but continued to self-educate through reading. They did not want to sound uneducated and made an effort to learn those “50¢ words” that educated people used.

    It’s too bad cockwoble didn’t make an appearance here in the U.S. We’ve always had to use too many words for our politicians where just one good one would do.

  54. E.M.Smith says:

    @Jim2:

    Since we’re on useful and rare words… Here’s more.

    It’s all because they think we’re the snool.

    Snool: An obedient, submissive person who willingly bows to authority.

    (As in: “I am not a snool! I am a free man!” with apologies to #6…)

    I would also assert that most of the “experts” on this whole Covid Crap are ultracrepidarian.

    Ultracrepidarian: A person with opinions on subjects beyond their knowledge.

    (As in: “Gov. Cuomo, being ultracrepidarian, espoused opinions on Covid treatment that were horrid, and people died.”)

    Then, what did Fauci say? I don’t know, it was all tortiloquy.

    Tortiloquy: Immoral or dishonest speech.

    (As in: “Every time a Democrat Politician speaks it is nothing but tortiloquy.”)

    And yes, Thank God for the Scots! They’ve enriched English greatly.

    Note: Definitions are lifted from The Little Book Of Lost Words by Joe Gillard. Examples are my own.

  55. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh, and one other…

    Ever been searching for the perfect word to describe corrupt and dishonest politician, but saying “lying crap bastard” just doesn’t do it for you anymore? Well try this out:

    Biden was a lying corrupt bastard but being senile, not nearly as bad as that snollygoster Pelosi.

    Snollygoster: A dishonest, corrupt, and unprincipled person. Esp. a politician.

    (As in: “I’ve not met single D.C. Democrat who was not a snollygoster.”)

    Note this is described as “Nineteenth century. English. American slang. So might not be common in other jurisdictions…

  56. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh, and more usable ones. You know those people who keep shouting at you to get vexxinated to protect the vaccinated from the folks who are not sick?

    That Karen and her Ken husband were nagging me to get vaccinated with the vaccine that doesn’t work, again. She’s such a mumpsimus but he’s even worse!

    Mumpsimus: “A stubborn person who refuses to change their mind, despite being proven wrong.”

    (As in: “I don’t know if Biden is a mumpsimus or a fopdoodle, but when he talks it is all humbuggery.”)

    Fopdoodle: An insignificant fool, a buffoon.

    Humbuggery: Nonsense or deceitful language or ideas.

  57. The True Nolan says:

    @jim2: “Cockwomble”! Oooh, great shirt. I have just added a new world to my vocabulary! Thank you, sir…

    @EM: Several new words there as well! I rather liked “tortiloquy”. I am guessing that it derives from “twisted speech”.

  58. jim2 says:

    Concerning the fact that the mRNA vaccine results in chopped-up spike proteins being expressed on the surface of some of one’s cells, I’ve decided it ain’t no big deal. This happens thousands for times for viruses we probably don’t even know exist and many that we do, include non-Covid-19 corona viruses. It doesn’t usually make our immune system attack our own cells as far as I know. Maybe PGS has some interesting info on this take on it, or if someone else has a credible link on this function of our immune system, which is apparently SOP, then by all means post it.

  59. another ian says:

    “DELIBERATE Ignorance And Death by ‘Health Care’ ”

    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243640

    More Fauci

  60. jim2 says:

    AI – I, too, lean heavily in the greed direction to explain the behavior of our “betters.” Throw in a dash of stupidity and you’re 75% there.

  61. another ian says:

    jim2

    Stupidity motivated by a dash for more greed – I doubt you can separate them?

  62. E.M.Smith says:

    @Jim2:

    Only 75%? Sir, I think you are being too modest…

  63. another ian says:

    “Pfizer is recalling ALL stocks of its popular anti-smoking drug Chantix after it was discovered to contain high levels of chemicals that can cause….CANCER!

    But have no doubt their vaxxes are safe and effective.
    Facepalm…”

    https://joannenova.com.au/2021/09/tuesday-open-thread-74/#comment-2471109

    That “Pfizzer” spelling again?

  64. David A says:

    So we know Ivermectin works, now can we admit the 16 to 2 decision to reject vaccines means they do not work..

    https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/20/fda-experts-covid-vaccines-killing-people-beating-twitter-censorship/

  65. David A says:

    Yes, rejecting boosters because the vaccines don’t work.
    Many reasons to reject boosters…
    https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/22/why-covid-booster-shots-are-uniquely-dangerous/

    Lots of good information at this site.

  66. E.M.Smith says:

    It was rather a surprise that the reviewers said basically OMG the boosters are crap. There’s still a few people in the world with working brains…

  67. jim2 says:

    I tried to listen to parts of the FDA hearing, but unfortunately no closed captions and no transcript that I can find. It’s good a diversity of views were presented, but I couldn’t understand some of the speakers very well.

  68. jim2 says:

    Latest news from Israel. Their cases are in a down-trend now.

    Israel’s 17% Unvaccinated ‘A Strain on Hospitals’; Account for 60% of COVID Deaths

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-s-covid-czar-says-17-unvaccinated-a-strain-on-hospitals-1.10234830

  69. cdquarles says:

    They should be down in the Northern Hemisphere tropics and subtropics now, regardless of any interventions. Epidemic season for corona viruses there is ending. That said, there will still be sporadic outbreaks as this thing goes endemic. Epidemic season for the extratropical areas of the Northern Hemisphere will be beginning soon. That said, I trust no reported numbers. Too much crucial information is not given. Case in point, there was a local report of covid related deaths. The report stated 100 per day. That’s near what the all cause daily deaths here should be. I really doubt that covid is the true proximal cause of those deaths. In other words, many are deaths with, not from; and those are used for political purposes.

  70. David A says:

    Cd, I agree, and there is lots of good evidence at the “expose site I linked to above. Fairly well documented.

    Regarding Israel 90 percent of their vulnerable population got the booster. About 3 million now. We hear conflicting reports about the unvaccinated vs vaccinated coming out of Israel. We KNOW how buggered and slanted anything in the US is, just starting with the first six weeks of every vaccinated person producing twisted and WRONG Covid statistics. Then the evidence manifesting about how things are labeled in hospitals. Then the harm done by hospital treatments with required drugs that harm kidney function 10 to 20 percent of the time, and on. And yes, all the while effective anti virals not allowed.

    What a mess. A statist dream for control. One of the links showed 90 percent of US citizens showed robust memory antibody generation. ( This was incredibly far from a novel virus to our system. We, our immune system remembered).

  71. David A says:

    Jim, the US has lots of folk getting to the 6 month mark. In Israel the percentage of vaccinated infected rose in good harmony with their vaccinated chart six month lagged.

  72. David A says:

    This Expose article was excellent. It was long, developed a bit slow, with a strong convincing finish.
    https://theexpose.uk/2021/08/29/midazolam-was-used-to-prematurely-end-the-lives-of-thousands-who-you-were-told-had-died-of-covid-19/

    The short story, UK GOVERNMENT ordered sick elderly back to care facilities and had this administered while they were already Covid symptomatic with breathing problems.

    Sounds very much like the medication used in US hospitalized at 3 k a pop plus hospital IV administered charges.

    Added to the long list of whys.

  73. jim2 says:

    Midazolam, aka Versed, is used in colonoscopies.

  74. another ian says:

    Indonesia too

    Click the link “Wonder what happened since then?”

    at

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/09/23/your-moral-and-intellectual-superiors-294/

    and get an eye full!

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