Yet More Covid Cures & Treatments

Somewhere along the line I’d followed a link to a “Natural Health News” site that was listing things that helped or supposedly cured Covid. It had some interesting odd bits, including Fennel, and then I closed the “fennel recipes” page I’d opened and now can’t get back to “wherever”…

So I did a search on “natural covid cures” and all sorts of intersting stuff popped up. Frankly, for an “incurable virus” without effective treatments (so some claim) it sure has a lot of stuff that seems to stop it.

Here’s some random findings:

This one has a “must accept cookies to read” panel that pops up, so I’m going to quote what matters. It doesn’t say what is in their Goo, but does say a patent application was made, so by now ought to be in the patent database.
It is mostly interesting for the links to other sources:

Israeli research: ‘Natural compounds’ could kill COVID-19 spike protein

The news comes against the backdrop of both skyrocketing infection in Israel and a mass vaccination campaign.


A Tel Aviv-based start-up company claims it has proven in lab results that a combination of plant-based “natural compounds” can decompose the COVID-19 spike protein that connects the virus to human cells.

The Jerusalem Post has seen highlights of the research developed by Novel Concepts Medical, which was first written about by some UK-based publications and republished by MSN News. The research was not peer reviewed and at least one researcher who has seen the preliminary data has raised questions about its accuracy.

The company has applied for a patent in the United States through the Ehrlich and Fenster law firm, whose managing director, Dr. Gal Ehrlich, has a PhD in Genetic Engineering from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

The press release on the research did not name which specific natural compounds were included in the formula and Alkalay said she could not share specifics due to the pending patent.

In a release, Alkalay said that, “We have encountered some resistance to the formula incorporating only natural compounds, but the lab results speak for themselves, and we are happy to be able to publish and share them in full. We are now looking for collaboration with hospitals to roll out clinical trials.”

It points to this paper so something in there is likely in their mix:

Front Pharmacol. 2020; 11: 588508.
Published online 2020 Oct 16. doi: 10.3389/fphar.2020.588508
PMCID: PMC7597394
PMID: 33178026
Current Prevention of COVID-19: Natural Products and Herbal Medicine
Natural products and herbal medicines have been historically used for acute respiratory infection and generally show acceptable toxicity. The favorable stability for oral formulation and ease of scaling up manufacture make it ideal candidate for prophylactic. Hereby, we summarized the most recent advance in SARS-CoV-2 prevention including vaccine development as well as experimental prophylactics. Mainly, we reviewed the natural products showing inhibitory effect on human coronavirus, and discussed the herbal medicines lately used for COVID-19, especially focused on the herbal products already approved by regulatory agency with identifiable patent number. We demonstrated that to fill in the response gap between appropriate treatment and commercially available vaccine, repurposing natural products and herbal medicines as prophylactic will be a vigorous approach to stop or at least slow down SARS-CoV-2 transmission.
Natural products and herbal medicines have been used for the prevention of virus infection for years. Those medicinal products show favorable efficacy and tolerable toxicity. It is undeniable that herbal medicine is still a promising resource for drug discovery, and its acceptable toxicity make it a prospective prophylactic candidate against COVID-19.
[… skipping over a long discussion of vaccines and chemical produced drugs -E.M.S.]

The envelope spike (S) protein of MERS-CoV is important for dipeptidyl peptidase 4 receptor binding and virus-cell membrane fusion, thus it is the key for virus to entry host cells (Mille and Whittaker, 2014). Kim et al. (2018) generated a pseudo-virus expressing the S protein of MERS-CoV (MERS-PV) and screened 502 compounds derived from natural products to test their ability to block MERS-CoV entry. Three compounds (Dihydrotanshinone, E-64-C, and E-64-D) met the screening criteria at a concentration of 1 µg/ml. However, only dihydrotanshinone exhibits antiviral effects on MERS-CoV in the post-attachment assay. Dihydrotanshinone is extracted from the root of Salvia miltiorrhiza Bunge which is commonly used in traditional Chinese medicine. However, studies to confirm antiviral efficacy against MERS-CoV infection in animal model are required.

Ouabain is from the seeds of Strophanthus gratus (Wall. & Hook.) Baill.m It has been used in cell biology studies as standard inhibitor of the Na+-K+-exchanging ATPase. A study (Ko et al., 2020) screened 5,406 compounds, including about 60% of all U.S. FDA-approved drugs, utilizing a Korean MERS patient isolate. By measuring the levels of the S protein expression of infected Vero cells using immunofluorescence analysis, they identified the cardiotonic drugs ouabain had a therapeutic index greater than 100, suggesting it could be considered for anti-MERS-CoV therapy. However, further in vitro and in vivo studies are needed to illustrate the mechanism of action.

Griffithsin isolated from the Griffithsia genus (red marine alga) is a 121 amino acid long lectin, which is attractive anti-coronavirus candidate because it interacts with coronavirus S proteins due to their highly glycosylated nature
and represses coronavirus S protein functions (Millet et al., 2016). It has antiviral activity against HIV-1 within the picomolar range (EC50: 0.043 nM) (Mori et al., 2005). Milletit et al. have shown griffithsin is a potent inhibitor of MERS-CoV infection and production in vitro (Millet et al., 2016). In addition, Griffithsin has been shown a low systematic toxicity, hence making it a promising candidate against MERS-CoV.

Besides inhibiting MERS-CoV entry host cells, suppressing its replication is an alternative strategy. Silvestrol, a natural compound isolated from the plant Aglaia foveolate Pannell, is known for inhibition of the DEAD-box RNA helicase, eIF4A that participates in preparation of mRNA templates for ribosome recruitment during translation initiation (Todt et al., 2018). Thus, it suppresses the formation of virus replication. Müller and colleagues (Müller et al., 2018) investigated the inhibitory effects of silvestrol against MERS-CoV in human embryonic lung fibroblasts (MRC-5). Silvestrol was a potent antiviral molecule (EC50: 1.3 nM) with no major cytotoxic effects in the primary cells and in liver or spleen. For future studies, the antiviral effects of silvestrol need to be evaluated in vivo infection models to consolidate its therapeutic potential.

Natural Products Inhibiting SARS-CoV
Emodin, an anthraquinone from Rheum officinale Baill and Reynoutria multiflora (Thunb.) Moldenke, has antibacterial and anti-inflammatory effects
. Ho et al. (2007) have reported that emodin blocked the binding of S protein to ACE2 and reduced the infectivity of S protein pseudo-typed retrovirus to Vero E6 cells. Emodin effectively blocked the interaction between S protein and ACE2 in a dose-dependent manner with IC50 of 200 µM, indicating it might be a potential therapeutic agent for the treatment of SARS.

Scutellarein is a flavone found in Scutellaria lateriflora L. and other members of the genus Scutellaria.
Yu et al. (2012) screened 64 purified natural compounds for the inhibitory effects of SARS helicase, nsP13 that possesses dsDNA unwinding activity and the ability to translocate along the nucleic acids, using fluorescence resonance energy transfer-based double-strand DNA unwinding assay. They found that scutellarein potently inhibited the SARS-CoV helicase protein in vitro via inhibiting the ATPase activity of nsP13. Scutellarein holds a promising potential for tackling SARS outbreaks; however, more preclinical/clinical studies to validate its efficacy are needed to evaluate their anti-viral effects.

Chymotrypsin-like protease (3CLPro) of SARS-CoV, an enzyme responsible for proteolysis, is vital to coronavirus replication
, making it considered as an important target for drug discovery against SARS-CoV. Chen et al. (Doremalen et al., 2020) have screened a library with 720 compounds of natural product for inhibitory effect against 3CLPro of SARS-CoV by high-performance liquid chromatography assay and fluorogenic substrate peptide assay. Among them, two natural polyphenols found in black tea (Camellia sinensis (L.) Kuntze), tannic acid, IC50: 3 µM; theaflavin-3-gallate, IC50: 7 µM) showed desired benefits. Black tea is common all over the world, thus this study provides a new perspective that tea-derived supplements might prevent the infection of SARS-CoV. But detailed in vitro and in vivo studies need to be conducted, SARS-CoV infection is related to the release of pro-inflammatory cytokines and uncontrolled inflammation that induce the accumulation of intra‐alveolar fibrin and lead to pulmonary damage. Thus, an alternative strategy is to reduce inflammation. Escins are saponin mixtures from Japanese horse chestnut (seed of Aesculus turbinata Blume) that has been used as an herbal medicine. It has anti-inflammatory activities and anti-antiviral effects against SARS-CoV (an EC50 of 6.0 μM) (Wu et al., 2004). Escin has been reported to decrease the levels of TNF‐α and IL‐6 in J774A.1 cells infected with HSV-1 or stimulated with Toll‐like receptor ligands by the inhibition of NF‐κB and activator protein-1 signaling pathways (Michelini et al., 2018). However, the severe cytotoxic effects in human lung derived cells limits its potential to be a prophylactic. Usually, a more efficient or safer drug can be designed based on the original natural compound that exhibits the wanted activity. Kim et al. (2017) designed and synthesized a series of escin derivatives without the angeloyl or tigloyl groups that are important for cytotoxicity of escins and modified glycosidic linkages by hydrolysis. Those Escin derivative showed lower cytotoxicity.
The host enzyme transmembrane protease serine 2 (TMPRSS2) facilitates viral particle entry into host cells. Inhibiting of this enzyme blocks virus fusion with ACE2, making it a potential target to inhibit virus entry. By molecular docking and molecular dynamics simulations, Kumar et al. (2020) have shown that withanone derived from Ashwagandha leaves (Withania somnifera (L.) Dunal) could bind and stably interact at the catalytic site of TMPRSS2 (His296, Asp345 and Ser441). In addition, they have confirmed that withanone significantly downregulated TMPRSS2 in MCF-7 cells, suggesting its dual potential to ramp down TMPRSS2 function.

SARS-CoV-2 papain-like protease (PL pro) cleaves the viral polyproteins a/b which is essential for its survival and replication
. Thus, PL pro is one of the prospective drug targets of SARS-CoV-2. Goswami et al. (Dibakar et al., 2020) established a library of small molecules found in rhizomes, Alpinia officinarum (Alpinia officinarum Hance), ginger (Zingiber officinale Roscoe), and curcuma (Curcuma longa L.) The compounds were docked into the solvent accessible S3-S4 pocket of PLpro. In silico results showed eight lead compounds from galangal (Alpinia officinarum Hance) and ginger (Zingiber officinale Roscoe) bound with high affinity to SARS-CoV-2 PLpro, suggesting their potential as inhibitors against SARS-CoV-2. However, subsequent in vitro and in vivo experiments are needed to elucidate their efficacy against SARS-CoV-2.
RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp) is an essential virus replicase that catalyzes the synthesis of complementary RNA strands using the virus RNA template. The molecular structure of RdRp was revealed in May 2020 (Gao Y. et al., 2020), providing a new strategy for discovering prophylactic candidates for SARS-CoV-2 inhibition. Abd El-Aziz et al. (El-Aziz Abd et al., 2020) investigated the potential of eight natural polyphenols (quercetin, naringenin, caffeine, oleuropein, ellagic acid, benzoic acid, resveratrol, and gallic acid polyphenols) as inhibitors of SARS-CoV-2 RdRp by molecular docking assay. The studied polyphenols formed hydrogen bonds with the nucleotide triphosphate (NTP) entry channel amino acids (ARG 555, ARG 555, LYS 545) in SARS-CoV-2 RdRp (except caffeine and oleuropein). Binding to NTP may inhibit the entry of the substrate and subsequently repress the enzyme activity. The results suggested that gallic acid and quercetin exhibited high binding affinity to RdRp. The NSP12 is an important RdRp for the coronavirus replicative machinery, which binds to co-factors NSP7 and NSP8 to activate its ability to replicate long RNA. A recent study (Ruan et al., 2020) has established two homologous models for virtual screening. Cepharanthine, an alkaloid tetrandrine isolated from Stephania (Stephania tetrandra S.Moore), has been reported to have anti-inflammatory and antioxidant activities (Weber and Opatz, 2019). The study has shown Cepharanthine could bind to the interface active pockets of the SARS-CoV-2 NSP12-NSP8, suggesting it has therapeutic potential.
Herbal Medicines Alleviating Acute Respiratory Infection

Herbal medicines like EPs® 7630, Sinupret®, and KanJang® have proven track record of treating acute respiratory infection due to common cold or influenza (Narimanian et al., 2005; Glatthaar-Saalmüller et al., 2011; Michaelis et al., 2011). Dating back to the beginning of COVID-19 outbreak around December 2019, herbal medicines were widely deployed across China to slow down the surge of infection cases. Its efficacy in alleviating acute respiratory distress syndrome caused by SARS-CoV-2 has been endorsed by both Chinese regulatory agency and the healthcare workers on the frontline.
indicated that among those herbal medicines widely distributed, Liquorice Root (Glycyrrhiza glabra L.), Baical Skullcap Root (Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi), Pinellia Rhizome [Pinellia ternata (Thunb.) Makino], Forsythia Fruit [Forsythia suspensa (Thunb.) Vahl], and Bitter Apricot Seed (Prunus armeniaca L.) are the most frequently prescribed herbs (Li et al., 2020). Their meta-analysis showed that herbal medicines are effective in halting the disease progression from mild to critical, decreasing hospitalization rate, shortening time of hospital stay, as well as alleviating COVID-19 associated symptoms like fever, cough, fatigue, and inflammation (Li et al., 2020).
Those chemicals mainly fall into four categories: flavonoids, glycosides, carboxylic acids, and saponins. In particular, glycyrrhizic acid isolated from Ma-Xin-Shi-Gan exhibited its anti-inflammatory effect by blocking toll-like-receptor and suppressing IL-6 production in macrophage. Huang et al. identified that quercetin, kaempferol, luteolin, isorhamnetin, baicalein, naringenin, and wogonin are probably the main active compounds responsible for the potency of herbs

And a whole lot more. That article is “target rich”… I note in particular that quercetin is mentioned a couple of times; and I have ginger once a week in my Sushi Binge California Fridays ;-)

I doubt that the Tea findings are very helpful, given the number of infected in the UK and India, but who knows, it might be helping a little.

There’s a whole lot of stuff with potential to help.

Then this one is interesting too:

“The ICAM protocol has the potential to trigger the reopening of the country,” Director of Pharmacy at AdventHealth Ocala Dr. Carlette Norwood-Williams told Fox 35. “We will know the next step after our outpatient study.”

The scientists have not yet tested their combination of drugs in a clinical trial to prove beyond any doubt that the treatment is safe and effective. But according to the researchers, ICAM therapy has yielded a 96.4% survival rate since April. It’s unclear how many patients have received ICAM, but Florida was one of the hardest-hit states in the US over the summer.

ICAM isn’t a new drug, it’s an acronym for a combination of existing medications used simultaneously on patients. It uses Immunosupport drugs (Vitamin C and Zinc), Corticosteroids against inflammation, Anticoagulants against blood clots, and Macrolides to help fight infection.
Macrolides are a class of antibiotics and azithromycin is one member of the family, also known from its association with hydroxychloroquine.

“We had no need for mechanical ventilation, and the patients all survived the discharge regardless of age and regardless of past medical history,” Norwood-Williams said about the ICAM protocol. She explained that the drug combination “works to defend the body from the most severe cases of the coronavirus.”

While, IMHO, prevention with Ivermectin is best, and treatment is AFTER a lot of virus replication and you have become symptomatic enough to head in to the M.D. Shop… it is interesting that they are getting 96.4% survival in folks who are already that far gone (i.e. the same group that was about 20% death rate in the early days of the pandemic before we realized most folks either don’t get it or have sniffles).

Might be worth printing out their protocol and results and slipping it to the treating physician if you or yours gets the Chinese Wuhan Covid Crud.

This is an interesting one. Pine Needle Tea. We once accidentally had Pine Needle Tea when some fell in the pot of boiling water Mum was using to make tea on a camping trip. It was surprisingly good.

This link is a bit politically bitey and prone to emotion, but still points at some sources:

Posted on May 16, 2021 by janpenguin

An effective way to guard against the spike protein contagion caused by those who were vaccinated.
Dr. Judy Mikovits has revealed that the medical establishment has known all along about the antidote to the contagion – acontagion that is now being seen today by thousands of people who have not taken the serum, but have merely come in close proximity with others who have taken the jab. (The word “serum” is being used here since, evidently, the way to avoid taking the jab is to say “I am allergic to the serum”.) When the medical establishment and political promoters want to exempt themselves from taking inoculations, they always give themselves a legal way out, while pushing the “citizenry” to take the jabs. “I am allergic to the serum” is one of their solutions.

The Antidote to the Contagion

This antidote to the contagion, that has been known of by the upper levels of the medical establishment and insiders of the elitist class for almost 100 years, is called Suramin, an isolated compound originally derived from an extract of pine needle oil. It is only available by injection, and has been a closely guarded secret not made openly available to the masses during this “pandemic”, yet is an effective solution for parasites and viruses of several kinds, along with a large number of other conditions. Yet anyone can now take advantage of this solution by tapping its root origin, pine needle tea, an antidote that is freely available today in evergreen forests and in many people’s backyards. (Sources for buying it are also listed below.)
The Trail from Suramin to Pine Needle Tea

Here is the trail of science and data that shows the derivative relationship between pine needles and Suramin (“the elist’s antidote” to microbial illnesses) – and which also provides a potential antidote for those affected by the spike protein contagion (for reasons explained within the following data):

Suramin is used for treatment of human sleeping sickness caused by trypanosomes.[1] [a parasite] Specifically, it is used for treatment of first-stage African trypanosomiasis caused by Trypanosoma brucei rhodesiense and Trypanosoma brucei gambiense without involvement of central nervous system.[9][10] It is considered first-line treatment for Trypanosoma brucei rhodesiense, and second-line treatment for early-stage Trypanosoma brucei gambiense, where pentamidine is recommended as first line.[1

It has been used in the treatment of river blindness (onchocerciasis).[2]

Suramin has been available to the medical profession for almost 100 years. A summary of its antioxidant benefits are outlined in this report – 100 Years of Suramin (attached as a PDF). The most relevant parts of the summary are outlined below with supportive evidence:

The wiki lists a load of not so good side effects from the injectable extract form. I know the tea is fine ;-) I’m not a big fan of this one as an approach, but just find it interesting and I may well make some pine needle tea next time I’m near a pine tree.

This one has a few more “ought to” and “maybe”s for my tastes, but still an interesting set of things to check out as potentials.

Herbal Remedies and COVID-19: What to Know
Written by Julia Ries on April 15, 2020 — Fact checked by Dana K. Cassell
All data and statistics are based on publicly available data at the time of publication. Some information may be out of date. Visit our coronavirus hub and follow our live updates page for the most recent information on the COVID-19 pandemic.
Using herbs for illness isn’t a novel idea. For thousands of years, herbs like licorice, ginger, and ephedra have been used to treat respiratory infections like the flu and pneumonia.

Some remedies, like forsythia, were put to the test for SARS and found to be somewhat effective in laboratory studies.
Just like any other medicine, herbal remedies could cause adverse side effects.

Take licorice, one of the remedies that officials in China have recommended for COVID-19.

According to Gersh, licorice is thought to be an effective treatment for herpes virusesTrusted Source.

Licorice paste, when applied to a herpes sore, can prevent the virus from replicating and stop it in its tracks, says Gersh. But it also has a major downside.

“It can activate a hormone in the body called aldosterone which causes fluids retention and can actually induce hypertension,” Gersh said.

Because hypertension is a huge risk factor for COVID-19 complications, Gersh said she “would be concerned about using licorice, especially in high quantities, in someone with coronavirus.”

St Johns wort is a widely available supplement but it can cause issues if a person is on medication.

“It can interact with other medications that a patient’s on and block their absorption in the body and prevent them from acting,” Langland said.

Furthermore, some people’s immune systems are overreacting to COVID-19, triggering widespread inflammation that can be even more problematic than the infection itself.

So licorice (the plant, not the artificial flavored gelatin rope candy in the USA), forsythia, St. John’s Wort ( I’ve grown it and used it, has mood effects that can range from calming to stupifying depending on how much you eat of it), and more.

Their “forsythia Sars” link points to this link / reference rich source articl:

During the SARS crisis in China, 40-60% infected patients, at some stages of their treatment, received Chinese medicine treatment on top of the standard modern medicine treatment. This practice was endorsed and encouraged by the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and some details of the herbal treatment were recommended. A review of the publications during and after the SARS crisis enabled us to get an objective view of the true value of the adjuvant therapy using Chinese medicinal herbs. Of the 130 articles searched, 90 were of reasonable quality and contained sufficient information for the enlightenment of the situation. These were reviewed. The results revealed positive but inconclusive indications about the efficacy of the combined treatments using Chinese medicine as an adjuvant. Positive effects using adjuvant herbal therapy included better control of fever, quicker clearance of chest infection, lesser consumption of steroids and other symptoms relief. In a few reports, some evidences of immunological boosterings were also found. More caution is required on the allegation about the efficacy of herbal medicine for the treatment or prevention of viral infection affecting the respiratory tract, while more clinical studies are indicated.

So a rather big “Dig Here!” in that article and the “related articles” listed below the abstract (for someone who has access to all their articles).

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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13 Responses to Yet More Covid Cures & Treatments

  1. cdquarles says:

    This should not surprise anyone, especially the denizens who comment and the lurkers who read here. This is the usual response to disease. Yes, you look for things that can help, whether old or new. Likewise, the base of our current pharmaceuticals, before politics intruded, was based on searching for pre-existing chemicals already out there, characterizing them, purifying them, finding the sweet spot in the dose-response window and the toxicity window (recall, dose and route make the medicine or the poison; and nature is full of poison). Once found, you sought a way to make them that did not require stripping the world of the original sources, and remembering that biological organisms vary greatly within group in their synthesis of these things and mimicry can be dangerous. For, there is no chemical man can make that the rest of nature can’t make; and vice-versa.

  2. John Robertson says:

    The Branch Covidians have to answer.
    Apparently every treatment and combination of treatments,that worked on SARS 1 also work on SARS 2,AKA the Dread Covid.
    Now if this is confirmed..
    Then the “Health Experts” from our government agencies must answer,for malice or incompetence.
    They knew,or they should have known,that treatments are/were available..
    Yet 18 months into a so-called pandemic,the infected are offered no first aid,instead told “Go home and practise your hypochondria”.
    Thousands died.
    So if these treatments work and were known to work from the time of the SARS 1 outbreak..
    What kind of evil would deny them?
    Or what kind of stupid would not know of them?
    These same “Experts” refer to Covid as SARS 2.

    Actually malice or incompetence no longer matter,thousands of citizens have died miserable deaths,drowning in their own snot..
    Treatment were available.
    Treatments which were denied or forbidden by our State Minions.
    These actions caused sick citizens to die,for lack of treatment.
    No longer matters.
    With help such as this we need no enemies.
    We have been bled enough.

  3. YMMV says:

    Off the wall question: Do they use Chinese medicine in China? I mean, is it officially sanctioned or do the officials say “follow the science” and “all that traditional medicine stuff is quackery”?

  4. Scissor says:

    YMMV, yes Chinese medicine is used in China, from acupuncture to rhino horn. It’s not all quackery. The problem is not knowing what works from what doesn’t.

    That’s a contributing problem with CV cures also, when 99+% of infections will resolve on their own, it’s easy for anecdote to appear useful.

  5. p.g.sharrow says:

    From what I can see, China and Russia use any thing that works to help their people health wise. In the western countries the thrust it to enrich and protect the pharmaceutical companies at the expense of the peoples health. Even to the point crimes against humanity. Thinking people are beginning to get it and refuse to go along. but the go along crowded would appear to be heading toward a bad outcome.
    My guess is that the reported 75% COVID vaccinated is more like 25% actually fully treated. Herd immunity will save the rest. But that 25% is in for a bad outcome. And the rest of us will suffer from this war on humanity/Us conducted by our government.

  6. pouncer says:

    Over-the-counter aspirin could protect the lungs of COVID-19 patients and minimize the need for mechanical ventilation, according to new research at the George Washington University.
    The team investigated more than 400 COVID patients from hospitals across the United States who take aspirin unrelated to their COVID disease, and found that the treatment reduced the risk of several parameters by almost half: reaching mechanical ventilation by 44%, ICU admissions by 43%, and overall in-hospital mortality by 47%.

    Of course one must ask, why would any diagnosed with COVID-19 want to take a drug that was not developed to specifically target COVID-19?

  7. YMMV says:

    @ Scissor, Yes, I have no doubt. My question was more about the politics of it. Does the party approve of traditional medicines, ignore it, or disapprove? Or the similar question, do the Chinese who use it feel shamed or proud? We can take for granted that the Chinese can be very good at both traditional medicine and science. And also very good at mass coercion, so how does it balance out there? We have mass oppression and coercion too, so it is just a curiosity question.

  8. E.M.Smith says:

    From what I’ve seen of reports from China, they just added “western” medicine on top of “traditional” and use both side by side. IIRC there are different practitioners for western (M.D. training) vs traditional (guy with an herb shop) but a fair amount of crossover as the M.D. often has also trained in the traditional / herbal uses and will prescribe it too.

    I don’t think there’s any political bias toward either from the administration. They seem more focused on food, industry, war, and international manipulation.

  9. Scissor says:

    YMMV, I understand your question now.

    I’ve been travelling to China for a long time. My first trip to China was in 1982 and like everything, the Western influence on the practice of medicine seems to be continually increasing. I don’t know what the CCP’s official position is, but they tolerate a certain amount of traditional medicine as there are quite a few “shops” around. Traditional Chinese medicine was not wiped out by the Cultural Revolution like for example Buddhism was, which seems to be making a comeback. Christianity is under attack and in general a kind of nationalistic intolerance is being promoted. Though for a while they loved us foreign devils. I haven’t been back since 2018.

  10. DonM says:

    @ Scissor

    “That’s a contributing problem with CV cures also, when 99+% of infections will resolve on their own, it’s easy for anecdote to appear useful.”

    Yes. With something like this, it is a big waste of time and money and resources to assume the saving solution is based on why those that live, do so. In the big picture, it should be “why do the (less than) 0.5% die?” Did those that died have low hormone ‘D’ levels? Did those that died have low zinc levels? Does blood type really come into play? What portion of those that died are ‘pre-disposed’ (V Leiden) to having ‘thick’ blood or other potential blood disorders? Or any other numerous variables that could come into play.

    It is obvious that our govt does not want a treatment (pre or post contact); if they did, they would be looking at this from the most beneficial perspective.

  11. tom0mason says:

    More on Ivermectin from

    Meta analysis using the most serious outcome reported shows 66% [52‑76%] and 86% [75‑92%] improvement for early treatment and prophylaxis, with similar results after exclusion based sensitivity analysis (which excludes all of the GMK/BBC team studies) and restriction to peer-reviewed studies or Randomized Controlled Trials.
    •Statistically significant improvements are seen for mortality, ventilation, ICU admission, hospitalization, recovery, cases, and viral clearance. 30 studies show statistically significant improvements in isolation.
    •Results are very robust — in worst case exclusion sensitivity analysis 53 of 64 studies must be excluded to avoid finding statistically significant efficacy.
    •While many treatments have some level of efficacy, they do not replace vaccines and other measures to avoid infection. Only 25% of ivermectin studies show zero events in the treatment arm.

  12. tom0mason says:

    The link I got from Dr. John Campbell’s video

  13. YMMV says:

    “We wanted herd immunity. We got herd hysteria.” Panic. Stampede!

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