Time To Get an In-N-Out Burger & Fries!

I’ll be adding a milkshake to my order (Coke & Pepsi have caved to the Woke):


AMERICAN NEWS Oct 21, 2021 5:29 PM EST
In-N-Out Burger stands by its refusal to be the ‘vaccination police’
Despite the temporary closure of its downtown San Francisco location by the city’s department of public health, In-N-Out Burger continues to refuse to enforce vaccine mandates in Contra Costa County.

Despite the temporary closure of its downtown San Francisco location by the city’s department of public health, In-N-Out Burger continues to sidestep vaccine mandates in nearby Contra Costa County.

Last Thursday, the iconic California burger chain slammed San Francisco’s vaccine mandates that require people to show proof of vaccination after its Jefferson Street location became the first restaurant in the city to be temporarily closed for refusing to comply with municipal orders to validate customers’ vaccine passes.

Across the bay in Contra Costa County, a similar situation is playing out. Instead of shutting the restaurant down, the county is issuing fines.

The restaurant was first issued a warning, but then the next two visits by the county’s Environmental Health Division resulted in fines totaling $750.

In-N-Out Burger’s chief legal and business officer Arnie Wensinger announced that after the San Francisco Department of Public Health shut down the Jefferson Street location, they were informed that they must demand that customers show proof of vaccinations as well as photo identification, and remove those who do not show the correct documents.
“As a Company, In-N-Out Burger strongly believes in the highest form of customer service and to us that means serving all Customers who visit us and making all Customers feel welcome,” Wensinger said in a statement, adding that he thinks the requirement is “clear governmental overreach and is intrusive, improper, and offensive.”

“We refuse to become the vaccination police for any government,” Wensinger continued. “It is unreasonable, invasive, and unsafe to force our restaurant associates to segregate customers into those who may be served and those who may not, whether based on the documentation they carry, or any other reason.”

Make those registers sing and put a line around the block. Here’s a handy link to find any near you:


Subscribe to feed


About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
This entry was posted in Covid, Political Current Events. Bookmark the permalink.

24 Responses to Time To Get an In-N-Out Burger & Fries!

  1. Terry Jackson says:

    We are at a point where Executive makes the rules and looks to others to enforce them. No laws, just edicts. The Executive has no Legislative power, but does have prosecutorial discretion. Show us the Law. Demonstrate your faithful execution. Making it up as you go means nothing. Enough. This shall end now, no further.

    As an aside, the only ones who will ever see any vexxination cards are the Canadians, their country, their rules.

  2. stewartpid says:

    As a Canadian I look at the picture ID and vax card to get a burger and no ID to vote and think WTF is going on stateside. Good luck folks.
    We be messed up here but at least we need ID to vote.
    Still unvax’d and loving it :-)

  3. YMMV says:

    @Terry Jackson, “the only ones who will ever see any vexxination cards are the Canadians”

    A quick check shows many countries have vaccine passports, some of them for months now.
    So I missed your point.

    Regarding being vaccination police, they don’t pay for that. And no danger pay. No bouncer training. That restaurant is making a bold stand, but futile. Remember the Alamo.

    I think a better stand here is passive disobedience. Make it look like you are doing the job the government wants, but do it like the government does it. Half-assed. Or if that is not your style, do it like the banks do it. “You want me to give you all the banks money? Okay.” Don’t try to be a hero, don’t try to be the police.

    For example, only proof of vaccine is allowed. Proof of immunity does not count for anything. No exemptions for anyone who cannot get a vaccine. Bureaucracy rulz.

    Canada’s new vaccine passport, just announced yesterday (there already were provincial vaccine passports). It is used along with government identification. One more step to that Nazi cliché in the movies. Papers please. Black leather gloves examine papers. Long pause…

  4. Terry Jackson says:

    The comment about the only ones to see the vexxination card was a bit sloppy, should have mentioned “at the border crossing”. Apologies.

  5. Double on Tundra says:

    I like their principled stand.

    A principled citizen — vaxed or not — would refuse to participate in the coercion embodied in a vax passport or proof of vaccination. “Sorry, not bending that knee.”

    Of course, a principled government could also act based on freedom, and invite businesses to advertise themselves as “Vax Proof Required” or “No Proof Required”. Then customers and businesses alike could make their own choices. And everyone would learn something in just a few weeks.

  6. E.M.Smith says:


    Oh My…

    I like the price…

  7. cdquarles says:

    Nice one, yes, if life gives you lemons, make lemonade from them.

  8. E.M.Smith says:


    The way to look at the United States and make sense of it is to realize that it isn’t United. It is a bottom up delegation upward of limited bits (despite folks at the top trying to ignore that) and is more like a Food Fight where some individuals are tossing pies and some have formed teams and there’s an overall agreement not to wreck the building as the Building Manager is watching…

    So, by the levels:

    ONE STORE of In-N-Out has been closed down for saying FU to the San Francisco CITY mandate.

    A DIFFERENT STORE of In-N-Out has had a fine from the COUNTY of Contra Costa (next step up in the hierarchy from a City, though do note the oddity that San Francisco is both a CITY and COUNTY as the city grew so large as to occupy the whole county).

    The Overall COMPANY of In-N-Out has said “We refuse to play”. At this point I don’t know if the individual stores are company owned, or franchisees and what (if any) rules the Company enforces on the Franchisee (if any are franchises)

    There is no State Mandate yet, so the State is on the sideline in this, and in my City and my County there’s no such passport stupidity so I can go to In-N-Out anytime I want without one (for now?…)

    OK, pause here for review:

    At this point we have at least 2 levels of hierarchy at In-N-Out. Corporate HQ, and local store manager or franchisee. On the Government side, we have 3 levels. City, County, State. And already we have 3 different levels of “Mandates” (possibly 4 – I’m not sure the details of Contra Costa County and they may differ from SF.) SF says “MUST!” or we close you down (because SF is just nutty crazy town idiots – yes I’ve been there and studied them for a few years on work breaks). C.C.County says “Must” or will will fine you. Santa Clara County (mine) and San Jose City both say “Wear a mask.. but take it off to eat” and not much more. Ditto the State.

    So which of them is “America”? NONE OF THEM. They are just minor patches of Tin Pot Dictators with their patch of fiefdom pissing on the serfs, or not.

    Now expand the scope to the entire USA. You now have 50 States and a half dozen or so territories each with their own ideas of what to do, inside of which are thousands of counties and cities all making up other bits of “whatever”. Over all of this, a small (but growing huge fast…) body of Federal Law that gets yanked back and forth as congress changes hands. It is presently run by the Idiot In Chief Biden as a Globalist Open Borders Paradise, so no wonder we have no voter ID nationally. But do note that some States do (such as Texas IIRC).

    Welcome to the USA Food Fight… Red Pies to the right, Blue Pies to the left, apple, apricot and custard scattered all about… Note that Key Lime Pies are reserved for Florida Residents…

  9. John Hultquist says:

    Nearest in-out place is a 5 hour drive — I’ll pass.

  10. beththeserf says:

    Soros Rules in Canada, no ID to vote but produce yer papers to get a hamburger. (

  11. stewartpid says:

    Beth … I just voted last week for our civic election in Calgary Alberta Canada and picture ID was required so I don’t get ur point at all.
    Re vax papers … yeah in Alberta we need the proof of the vax to sit in a restaurant or bar but they are okay with me picking up take away unvax’d …. go figure.
    Some ski hills require the vax proof to ski this coming season but not mine (as the host sez “so far” ) … if I could get the J&J vax I would to stop the hassle by everybody to want me to conform. I like the J&J simply for the one jab and done … if I am going to be a guinea pig / lab rat I want the amount of toxic waste injected as low as possible.
    Cold here this AM …. all my cars are covered in ice from yesterdays rain freezing solid :-( … winter comes soon if Bastardi is correct and we are going to get what we deserve and get it good and hard!!

  12. Pouncer says:

    Of “In-N-Out” specifically — I don’t care for their french fries. Odd, really. They bring in fresh whole potatoes and cut them right where you can see. But apparently they then fry in “sunflower oil” — once.

    There is a school of thought that holds the best fries to eat with a hamburger are cooked in beef tallow. There is another academy that professes that fries must be fried once in a relatively low temperature oil to cook thoroughly, then cooked again in a higher hotter oil to get crispy. The “Five Guys” chain fries in peanut oil, twice at the same temperature with a “rest” period in between. “Wendy’s” coats the potatoes with — well, it’s a secret, but likely some sort of corn-starch or rice starch. It’s all very serious business.

    But In-N-Out just serves adequate fries with their high-tier burgers.

  13. E.M.Smith says:


    As a long time fry cook, starting about age 6 at home for pan fried, upped the anti to Deep Fat Fryer in the restaurant at age 7 and a LOT of my own since, some of what I’ve learned:

    In-N-Out tries to make their fries super duper “clean” and “special” and “healthy” with 100% plant oil changed DAILY. This makes for very bland fries.

    BEST fries come from grease that has been in use for at least a day, preferably 2, and has cooked not just potatoes in it, but animal fat yielding things like Fried Chicken and Chicken Fried Steak.

    The best method of cooking fries is the double dip. Cook 1/2 way, rest, cook the rest of the way. Same temperature of about 375 F for both is fine.

    Beef Tallow alone is a slightly uninteresting flavor. Add 10% Coconut oil (no more) and it improves a LOT. It is now my basic fries oil. Better after a couple of batches of chicken are fried and the smaltz starts to build up in it ;-)

    We used to reserve about 10% to 20% “old oil” when changing the oil in the fryers. Why? Because new shortening / oil was a bit too bland and folks noticed, but a little carry over meant it was back to really good by the end of the day.

    Lard smells funny in the fryer. Best to avoid it in bulk. Taste is great, though. Might help in tallow blends…

    Plant Oils (poly-unsaturated) are more carcinogenic in the decay products and smoke at lower temperatures. Use mono-unsaturated or animal fats for higher temperatures.

    Peanut oil causes some folks to get acne.

    Hope that helps.

  14. Jeff says:

    @ Pouncer: Kenji at Serious Eats ordered everything on the IN-N-OUT Burger Secret Menu, among that various variants of fries, which despite the on-site freshness are bland, to wit:

    “Everyone knows that In-N-Out’s fries are notoriously bad despite being fresh cut in-house—it’s because they only fry them once instead of the superior McDonald’s-style double-fry—but there are ways to improve them. First, you can get them extra crispy by saying well done. The fries turn out more dry and crunchy than crispy with a fluffy center, but it’s a definite improvement. If you’re on the opposite end of the spectrum, you can also request your fries light, where they’ll come to your tray almost completely blond, limp, and greasy. I dunno. Some people like these, apparently. Thomas corroborated the rumored accounts of customers who go even more extreme; one customer regularly ordered two minute fries, which were still crunchy and raw in the middle.”

    So “well done” would probably be an improvement (or frying them again at home, perhaps)…

    Lots more info and pics here: https://www.seriouseats.com/the-in-n-out-survival-guide-we-ate-every-single-item-on-the-secret-menu

    The “Trans Fat” diktats are probably the cause of more French Fry Frustration than anything else…

  15. E.M.Smith says:


    Well before hydrogenated fats and trans fats and all, folks were making good fries. It just takes Animal Fats with some use on them. So render some tallow from the beef fat directly, it has FAR more flavor (think steak with juicy crisp rim fat) than soft rendered tallow without the crispy bits.

    The Maillard Reaction (aka “browning” the meat before stewing)

    FRESH oil of any kind does not have any of that goodness in it. Used oil does. In-N-Out prides themselves on Fresh Oil Daily. The EU mandates no more than 40 hours of use, IIRC due to build up of acrylamide and other stuff. (The same stuff that makes BBQ nummy…)

    We would change our fryer oil once / week. About 84 hours of use IIRC. Sooner if it was used a lot and needed it. OTOH, we ran temps at a moderate 375 F (badness develops proportional to temperature and oxygen exposure).

    At home, I have a jar of fryer fat stored in the ‘fridge that I use for a long time before replacing. Frying things like french fries drops the level while chicken raises it. I think I go about 50 hours before a full change, but fresh gets added along the way as more fries than chicken get done ;-) (Rather like in our restaurant).

    Also, a small bit of bacon grease in the fryer oil can work wonders for flavor… turns out the oil kind and history has a big effect on fries flavor. I’m especially fond of the 90% Tallow 10% Coconut base after chicken fat has built up to about 10%… or if you put about 5% saved bacon grease in it. (Only recently I’ve come to play with and appreciate the differences in fats and the impact on flavor.)

    Oh, and so far I’ve not found anything improved by added turkey renderings (fat)… Supposedly Duck Fat is especially special (French use it for Confit- meat stored under fat) but hard to come by without a Duck ;-)

    Frankly, I think you could likely improve most blends just by putting a bunch of beef trimmings into the fryer and making them browned and crispy ;-) Again, think of the crispy bits of fat on a steak… It isn’t just the tallow that makes the flavor, but the protein and other components of the fatty tissue that is involved in making the flavor profile spectacular. (That Maillard Reaction thing again…) I don’t toss out any chicken skin. Any that’s just not on a chunk of chicken gets crispy in the fryer and makes the oil taste a lot more interesting ;-)

    WORST oils for frying are Poly-Unsaturated Oils. Bland AND they make a pot load of carcinogenic stuff, like acrylamide,faster than any other oil AND they smoke at very low temperatures. Just do NOT deep fry with Soybean, Corn, Canola…

    What’s good on salad (Oil & Vinegar) is bad in the fryer and what’s good in the fryer is horrible on a salad… Just sayin’…

  16. Jeff says:

    Here in Germany they’ve gone all gestapo on acrylamides, so it’s getting really difficult to get things fried correctly or nicely brown. And coconut oil is great, both for flavor and usage (I add it to Indian dishes that I cook too).

    Speaking of browning, would a crispy duck involve a Mallard Reaction ? :)

    I just wish they had really mini french fryers, like “Fry Baby” that Joe Namath advertised aeons ago. Small enough to not need a lot of oil, but large enough for 5-10 mozzarella sticks or other snacks. (Probably they’re dangerous or illegal now, or at the very least stuck offshore in a container ship somewhere…)….

  17. Ed Forbes says:


    Small ones are still available

  18. E.M.Smith says:


    I use an “Electric Wok” and just put in the amount of oil I need. Anywhere from a cup to a quart depending on quantity to fry. As it is roughly parabolic shaped, the puddle is always the same shape, just the depth x width changes. Plus, it nicely holds set temperature for you (as long as you don’t dump a LOT of cold food into a small amount of hot oil, then it will sag for a few minutes as the element heats it back up).

    Added feature is that “spatter” has to travel further to escape the rim that’s relatively far away ;-)

    It is physically big, but how much oil is up to you.

    As a side benefit, you can actually make things like stir fry in it if you want to ;-)

  19. Pinroot says:

    I wish we had an In-and-Out burger place here in the south, I’d definitely send some business their way.

  20. E.M.Smith says:

    Yesterday I was looking at tow vehicles in Sacramento (a good 2.5 hour drive away…). A 2000 Ford Excursion (basically a 4×4 F350 with an SUV body on it) and a Lincoln Navigator from 2005 (essentially an upscale Expedition with air suspension and classy interior).

    Along the way stopped in Tracy at the In-N-Out Burger there for a “Double Double Meal”.

    I’ve not had such good service in a restaurant in years. Partly it may be that I was the first customer of the day and the place was just me and 8 employees ;-)

    NOBODY had a mask on. (California State rules are vaxxed need no mask so unless the city over-rides with more restrictions, mask-free is OK). Everyone was helpful and competent. Clearly the management of that store “Has Clue”.

    Burger was great, Ice-tea was, well tea, and the fries were cooked perfectly with that “new oil” bland finish… Sigh. I do wish they had an old oil with meat fats in it option…

    It was about $10 all up. ( something like 45 ¢ change) and was a very good burger.

    I’m going to make that a regular stop on any runs to Sacramento and back. It is on Tracy Blvd. then the first light go left.

    I also noticed a few other In-N-Out places along the rest of the drive and in Sacramento. So I’ve got lots of them to choose from. Also, any drive south to Gilroy will involve a stop at the one there, and any along the way to L.A. (where they started and have the most stores…) too.

    I do remember seeing some through Arizona and a bit further East, but not sure where they have reached along I-40 & I-10. Research for later…

    I’m happy with the meal and I’ll be getting more. Even the somewhat bland fries are OK with some salt and ketchup…

  21. H.R. says:

    @E.M. – That 2005 Excursion should be pretty good. My 2005 F-250 with the V-10 was decently reliable. It was a rust bucket, though since it lived its life in the snow belt.

    The big V-8s would have towed our first trailer, but they gave up some towing capacity to the V-10. I wanted some safety margin for the mountains so I went with the V-10, crappy gas mileage and all.

    I’m not sure how the big V-8 motors were around 2005. I think they were pretty solid. The EPA was screwing with the diesels starting in 2002, and the truck makers didn’t really get their diesels figured out until about 2007. I’d avoid Ford 2002 to 2007 diesels. Chevy, too. Cummins figured out the fixes for the new EPA rules pretty quickly. I think they were an “Avoid” for only a year or two.

    Now is a sucky time to be shopping for heavier used trucks. They are going at a super premium around here, when you can find them. The F-150s – 1500s are plentiful and there is still price competition on the lighter trucks.

    Have fun truck or heavy SUV shopping!

  22. Power Grab says:

    When I started reading the articles on the Weston A. Price Foundation’s web site in about 2002, I confess I was shocked that they said McDonald’s originally cooked their french fries in 90% tallow and 10% coconut oil. I think it was in the 1980s that all the fast food places started using vegetable oils (probably soybean oil, truth be told) to cook their fries. They never seemed as good after the switch. Now, I generally don’t eat all the fries they give me (from any restaurant).

    However, once in a while, I save the uneaten fries and then use them for Saturday morning potatoes fried in bacon grease. That way, I don’t feel so wasteful!

    Now that my motto is “Cholesterol Is Your Friend”, I am no longer shocked by the use of animal fats in cooking. Brainwashing can be hard to shake, though!

    I’m getting pretty good at making our Saturday morning fried potatoes in bacon grease with onion and green bell pepper. My mom used to make the best bacon and eggs whenever we were all home for holidays. She used an electric skillet. (I acquired a vintage Toastmaster skillet off eBay for just that purpose. I’m just about to buy a second one.) It’s fun to fry up the bacon first, then the eggs or potatoes. If I had 6 people to feed, I certainly would have enough bacon grease in the pan to properly fry potatoes. However, since it’s just the two of us most weekends, I usually have to add some lard to the pan before cooking the potatoes. Somewhere I saw a recipe that said you need to use 4-5 tablespoons of fat to shallow-fry potatoes.

    My kinfolk say they like my breakfasts. I use real bacon and free-range eggs. Then we might have fresh muffins, or pancakes, and/or fried potatoes with chopped onions and green bell peppers.

    The first time I had free-range eggs from a friend, I was pleasantly surprised. “These eggs taste like eggs used to taste when I was growing up!” (I didn’t even realize modern, store-bought eggs were deficient in taste until then.) I don’t even buy store-bought eggs now unless my egg lady’s chickens are on hiatus during the cold weather.

    One time I stewed a big, plump chicken that yielded the most fat I’ve ever seen from one chicken. I have a habit of saving in a baggy in the freezer the fat from a plump chicken or from a roast. When I used that big batch of chicken fat to fry potatoes, I was thinking about how duck fat is favored by the French to make their fried potatoes. The chicken fat that I used did an excellent job!

    I don’t deep-fat fry very often. One time I cut up fresh potatoes into fries and deep-fried them. I hadn’t gotten into double-frying them, so I just fried them once. My offspring said they were the best they’d had. I was surprised.

    I wish I had more time to cook. I work insanely-long hours at my day job. But yesterday I only brought in leftovers for 1 meal, not 2 (usually, I bring in food for both lunch and supper), so when suppertime came, I went home. I still had 2 loads of laundry to do, and I had a whole chicken I needed to cook, and I still had 5 hours or so of office work to do. I wanted to try again to make fried chicken like my mom did, bit I ended up just baking the chicken whole. I would have had to spend a lot more time in the kitchen if I had tried to fry it her way. So I baked the chicken after anointing it with olive oil and sprinkling sea salt and pepper on it. It’s hard to believe it’s so easy to end up with a beautiful, crispy-skinned bird with so little effort! After eating some, my offspring even came back and said the chicken was really good. (I don’t get compliments from them like that very often! My ex never complimented me on my cooking. The only way I could tell he liked something was when he went back and finished off the leftovers.) I said, “Thanks! I was just thinking that myself.” Honestly, whenever I order chicken from a restaurant, I hope it will taste like that…but it never does. I generally choose dark meat instead of white meat, but the white meat was nice and juicy this time.

    Now I need to decide what to do with the leftovers! I used to make fajitas with leftover stewed or rotisserie chicken. I had a favorite liquid fajita seasoning. I haven’t found it yet since the move, however. I haven’t seen it in the stores for many, many years. The last time I got some, I had to order it from the company.

    When I bought the whole chicken, I was actually looking for some parts to use with a curry-type kit from overseas. But the chicken parts were going for something like $6 a pound(!), while the nearly-5-pound whole chicken went for only $5.05. I haven’t been paying much attention to the rising price of food, but it’s becoming hard to ignore.

Comments are closed.