Vukcevic, Correlation, Mag Fields, and Arctic Temps

Some times there are things you look at and just go: “Wha?” …

And some times there are people who find more of them than most anyone else.

IMHO, Vukcevic is one of those people. He’s already found a great little predictor formula for how the sun will cycle. Now he’s got this correlation of magnetic field strength and the Arctic temperature anomaly. Who knew?

While these are not long on mechanism, I don’t find that an issue. For centuries science proceeded from observation, to correlation, to thesis, to … So I see the finding of interesting correlations to be the first step of classical science. The “Say What?” moment that makes you look in a new direction.

Arctic Temps and Mag Field Strength

Arctic Temps and Mag Field Strength

There are a lot more and more interesting graphs in the page, here:

http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/NFC1.htm

But I have not asked for permission to use the graphics, so I’m not going to pull out the best bits…

So I’ve read it. Find it terribly intriguing. And have no idea what to do with it. That wonderful state of bliss when you are aware there is something Very Important that you can see happening, but don’t have a clue about how it works or what it does.

The basic thesis seems to be that the mag fields somehow steer the flow of arctic currents, and through them, change the weather. This might be a simple connection between an electric conductor moving in a mag field (salty water) or perhaps one could even speculate a method for The Electric Universe folks to connect Galactic Currents to events on earth. Who knows where it might lead.

But Vukcevic is a careful worker and generally gets his facts and math right. So something is connecting those two things. But what? Why? How? To what effects? One possible is that he also has a graph showing that the AMO tracks along too. So maybe our whole solar cycle to ocean cycle connection can come through a direct connection via magnetic fields. Now that would be a really annoying result. (I use “It’s done with magnets” as a flag for most likely bogus theories.) But nature doesn’t mind annoying me, so maybe “AMO change is done with magnets” is where we will end up.

It’s times like this I wish I had a dozen more hours in each day…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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70 Responses to Vukcevic, Correlation, Mag Fields, and Arctic Temps

  1. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Magnetic field force lines flow like energy in a wire or water in a hose. That flow drags on any thing in it’s area of effect. The earths’ shape is warped by the effect of this. The flow is out and up at the south magnetic pole and down and in at the north magnetic pole. Adding compression (warming) to the north pole and decompression (cooling) at the south pole.

    As we were taught in electronics/electrical classes every electron in the universe feels the effects on every other electron. Everything is connected in some way.

  2. vukcevic says:

    Mr. Smith
    Thank you for the far too generous review. You are welcome to reproduce or quote anything you find of interest.
    I would not bet lot of money on the theory though.
    vukcevic

  3. Malaga View says:

    While these are not long on mechanism, I don’t find that an issue. For centuries science proceeded from observation, to correlation, to thesis, to … So I see the finding of interesting correlations to be the first step of classical science.

    Totally agree…

    It is wonderful to see the likes of Vukcevic http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net and Piers Corbyn http://weatheraction.com moving forward with classical science and challenging consensus science.

    When I came across the concept of Diamagnetism I was really surprised…. it underlined how my education in consensus science was so blinkered and limiting…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism

    One of the big problems for us all, including Vukcevic, is that so many temperature records have been cooked and filleted by consensus science… and no doubt other data sets are suffering the same fate, such as CO2 measurements, as consensus science tries to stifle classical science and return us to a Dark Age of ignorance, faith and prejudice.

    Thank you Mr E. M. Smith for your open minded honesty.

  4. Ian Beale says:

    If “It’s done with magnets” gets superceded

    you’ll have to move to something like

    M(ore) S(moke) & M(irrors)!

  5. oldtimer says:

    OT: you have mail!
    …and on one of your favourite subjects – the land based temperature records.

  6. I think that through M.Vukcevic approach we are getting closer to the very roots of Climate causation, we must not forget that wherever there is a magnetic field there is an electric field, and now there are too many proves of the Electric Universe.
    Water, also, it is a very peculiar susbtance: Back in 600 years B.C. Democritus, 2600 before Linus Pauling X.ray diffraction studies, said that “Water was ICOSAHEDRIC”(this is, the associated molecules configuring the smallest “drop” which could be still called “water”has indeed this shape).
    And water, among other properties, it is diamagnetic.
    Prof.Giorgio Piccardi studied its singular characteristics:

    http://www.rexresearch.com/piccardi/piccardi2.pdf

  7. Malaga View:

    Your link:

    Clearly show that this effect is, by far, greater than gravity, the only driving force considered by whom I call the “Flintstones´Universe” theorists.
    We were taught a view of the universe which is made up of round “stones”almost random scattered in a vacuum space, with no other relation among them but Holy Saint Isaac Newton´s gravity: The image of a apple falling from an apple tree. However Sain Newton himself did not see the big apple tree, growing up against his most sacred law.
    How do we explain the fact we watch everyday: Millions of thousands tons of water, graciously hanging and floating in the air over our heads?
    Flintstones sages explain cosmic rays as little pebbles raining over our head too, without making any change whatsoever, not considering, for example, that the 90% of them are protons, hydrogen nucleii reacting with cloud water changing into, among other reactions, in hydronium, a water molecule positively charged, etc,etc.

  8. Hugo M says:

    Generally, calculating correlations of smoothed time series are unreliable and misleading. The more smoothing, the more convincing the result will look.

  9. Hugo M: Are you a spy from the holy inquisition of the global warming church?☺

  10. BlueIce2HotSea says:

    R2=.89 Wow. That’s also the same value found for the Covariation of carbon dioxide and temperature from the Vostok ice core after deuterium-excess correction.

    Hmm… Geomagnetic field strength wouldn’t also happen to be lagging temperature?

    Regardless, nice work Vukcevic & thanks Willis for putting it up.

    Cheers
    DB

  11. Vuk says:

    BlueIce2HotSea
    That as is not such a surprising coincidence.
    Life in the ocean consumes and releases huge quantities of carbon dioxide. If you consider that CO2 trapped into organic sediments during millions of years is released at more or less constant rate and that the solubility of CO2 in water decreases with increasing temperature, amount released into atmosphere is proportional to the temperature and will show up in the Vostok ice cores.
    “In the oceans, carbon dioxide exchange is largely controlled by sea surface temperatures, circulating currents, and by the biological processes of photosynthesis and respiration. Carbon dioxide can dissolve easily into the ocean and the amount of carbon dioxide that the ocean can hold depends on ocean temperature and the amount of carbon dioxide already present. Cold ocean temperatures favour the uptake of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere whereas warm temperatures can cause the ocean surface to release carbon dioxide.”

    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/CarbonCycle/carbon_cycle3.php

    The whole of the CO2 ideology is suspect from the start.

  12. tallbloke says:

    Hi E.M.
    A while ago I pointed Vuk to a thread I posted at the back end of last year on a related topic. The rate of change in declination of the magnetic north pole not only matches the detrended temperature record, but the changes in length of day and the motion of the planets and sun too.

    http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/north-pole-position-shifts/

  13. Vuk says:

    Hi tallbloke
    Our correspondence on this goes far further, remember puzzle for Christmas (Dec 2008).

    http://solarcycle24com.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talkanything&thread=376&page=1

  14. tallbloke says:

    I’ll just add that Vuk has been looking at this stuff for a couple of years now, and has built up an impressive corpus of knowledge and graphical work. Check the link the Chief posted:

    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/NFC1.htm

  15. This issue is wide enough to deserve a multidisciplinary study which would surely involve the EU people (www.holoscience.com) and others. Data, also, must be collected, if it doesn´t exist, as for example, electro/magnetic measurements of sea currents on the field.

  16. Cement a friend says:

    Adolfo, interesting article by Piccardi. I knew about some of the anomalous properties of water but not put together as in the article. The absorption of very low frequency energy is worth further study and there maybe a link to Vuk’s findings.
    A good case for keeping an open mind about basis of technology.

  17. vukcevic says:

    About a year ago I published far more extensive article on the possible multifaceted effect of the Arctic Ocean currents, geology and magnetism on the North Atlantic Temperature Anomaly (NATA).

    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/NATA.htm

  18. Cement a friend says:

    Vuk, very interesting. Did you publish that with references in a journal?
    One point of contention someone may pick up is that the sea surface is cooled at night particularly in winter when nights are long by radiation to space, not by the cool air.
    Keep strong.

  19. The following paper it is very interesting, as it related solar activity, through magnetic forces to climate:
    Solar Forcing of the Stream Flow of a Continental Scale South American River

    http://www.iafe.uba.ar/httpdocs/reprint_parana.pdf

    This article, today, shows how electricity works in the supposed empty space of the “Flintstones Universe”
    Sun-Stirred Lunar Dust Could Wear Down Moon Machines

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20100712/sc_space/sunstirredlunardustcouldweardownmoonmachines

    Evidently, static electricity dust storms.

  20. Chuckles:
    Your link about Anatoly Levitin about variations in the magnetic field intensity made me remember of a peculiar coincidence: All developed countries are located where the magnetic field is more intense…
    To experience how will it be to live under, say, a third of the magnetic force than in Siberia, you just have to travel where it is so, for example some parts of south america….so, nothing strange, just you’ll become some like a “banana republic” :-)
    And if we relate it to human behavior, which is not such a crazy idea as our brainswork with electrically, we could explain nowadays changes in northern hemisphere countries after the north pole drift to siberia.

  21. E.M.Smith says:

    Brains have a small grain of magnetite in them. In birds this has been shown to be the organ of their ‘magnetic sense’.

    It’s also been found in mammals in in people (and sharks and…) but some folks still insist it doesn’t do anything in people. IMHO, it’s why some folks have a great ‘sense of direction’ and some folks don’t. As a child, my Dad would take us out in the country and we had to point toward home (or toward the campsite). He was training my sense of direction (which now works very well).

    When I first traveled to Australia I was horridly disoriented for about 4 days. New where North was, but the sun ‘was in the wrong half of the sky’ ;-) It’s an odd ‘dizzy but not dizzy’ feeling in the head when the mag sense is saying one thing and the eyes something else…

    (Wasn’t just jet lag, as I was traveling alone and let myself sleep whenever I needed it. Some of the local hotels wondered about this crazy American who was sleeping odd hours though ;-)

    So my ‘take’ on things is that people have a magnetic sense, but it takes a bit of training to wake it up, and our modern life has dampened our awareness of it. It may be on the way to being a vestigial organ.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/89/16/7683.short

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/98749.php

    One is left to wonder what being immersed in mag fields from our modern electric life is doing to our brains. Though the second link noted at even in bats only about 1/2 of them seemed responsive.

    Oh, and yes, this triggers me “It’s all done with magnets” BS-O-Meter… even though I know the truth of it. It really is odd to think of us having magnetic brains…

  22. Chuckles says:

    @E.M.,

    I’d be happier if most brains had a grain of ‘common’ sense. Very rare commodity these days.

    And the sun and the sky is just fine in Australia, it’s the northern hemisphere where it’s in the ‘wrong half of the sky':)

    And I think your 4 day orientation estimate is VERY optimistic? My experience is that one can consciously force oneself to orient, but first thing in the morning or when distracted, the ‘default hemisphere’ can re-assert itself without warning.
    I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve nonchalantly headed off 180 degrees off course under those conditions. Driving on the left/right of the road, same thing. First thing in the morning conscious effort is needed, as ‘full automatic’ mode kicks in.

    I think people with a good ‘bump of direction’ process a lot of very subtle clues from the sun, terrain, prevailing winds, landmarks, all manner of things, and many of them are very automatically and subconsciously invoked. For example, some used to living in towns or cities laid out on a regular grid have the devil’s own time in the wagon-wheels of DC or Paris, or in the older medieval cities of Europe.

    Wandering round Aachen, I used to get lost in a city block, as the brain was processing street corners as 90 degrees, while ALL the cross roads were circular or angled, and the brain said ‘You HAVE to turn left here…’

    http://www.planetware.com/map/aachen-map-d-aachen.htm

    Similar effect if I try and walk around some areas of London. Overcast, featureless terrain or unfamiliar types of terrain, do not help either.

  23. E.M.Smith
    BTW one anthropologist in the UK, analized 250 skulls from men and 250 from men, and found that on the face and nose bones there was Magnetite, much more in men than in women (so they get lost easily) because women lose blood during menstruation.
    Perhaps our friend Vuk has an extraordinary concentration of Fe3O4, as he is so attracted by magnetic fields. :-)

  24. vukcevic says:

    Magnetic field in the Northern hemisphere has different historiogram to one for the Southern hemisphere.
    Adolfo
    My ‘out of the box’ ideas on climate, solar cycles and indeed on magnetic field are purposefully so, since there is no point of me staggering along the well trodden paths, where ‘marathon runners’ exercise their brains.
    I just put up this on WUWT

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/16/noaa-behind-the-curve/#comment-432025

  25. Dear Vuk: Following paths where only “the brave would go”
    That
    Decline in the solar activity meant fewer particles arriving. Decline in the GMF means that particles are retained shorter time in the ionosphere. Both of these would result in a decline of the ionosphere’s density.
    Would it mean observable changes in, for example, Antarctica temperatures?

  26. But Vukcevic is a careful worker and generally gets his facts and math right. So something is connecting those two things…
    An induction kiln!
    What is it its frequency?

  27. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Tesla claimed that the earths resonance frequency was 7.5 Hz which would also cover multipuls of that number. Our 60 Hz electric system was designed around that number.

  28. P.G. Sharrow
    Tesla claimed that the earths resonance frequency was 7.5 Hz which would also cover multipuls of that number. Our 60 Hz electric system was designed around that number.

    With a core of magnetite (Fe3O4) it would work nicely (As in a radio´s RF coil); not necessarily with a molten iron core.

  29. vukcevic
    Is the earth ok, according to these frecuencies?
    That would explain, also, some social consequences….

  30. E.M.Smith says:

    @Adolfo:

    Every so often I contemplate the vertical electric field strength and the resonant frequency of the planet and wonder if Tesla was on to something.

    I’ve not spent the time it would take, but ponder making a 7.5 – 10 hz resonator and putting an antenna up in the air and see if one can suck down more than a trivial quantity of electricity…

    If I thought I could get more than a milliwatt or so I’d probably be more motivated ;-)

  31. @E.M.Smith
    It would be something like this but with some additional gadgets…

  32. Gregg Braden on Schumann Resonance:

  33. E.M.Smith says:

    @Adolpho: The mag field, when it reverses, does so with a chaotic stage at the transition. Basically, a bunch of N and S poles start to break out all over, then we resolve into a single N and single S pole. There are interesting maps of the earths field showing the strength at individual places.

    Oddly, these show some ‘anomalous’ area of reversed polarity. One of these looks to be the area called “The Bermuda Triangle”, but it’s a bit ‘special’ in that a loop of magnetic field sometimes is below the surface (so we have normal orientation) but sometimes pops up to give reversal for a while.

    It’s believed that this is why compasses sometimes ‘go nuts’ there.

    This is an interesting map, but doesn’t show a very big patch there:

    From this interesting posting:

    http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Navigation.htm

    At any rate, there is this increasing level of ‘reversed patches’ and both computer and physical models say we ought to become much more chaotic before a reversal completes.

    (Yes, someone made a big metal ball full of mercury and spun it to see the induced mag fields. They found the same tendency to sporadic stability followed by a chaotic phase, then a new reversed stability.)

  34. vukcevic says:

    I think the Earth’s field is currently too strong for an imminent reversal.

    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/VADM.htm

    While the south pole is still loosing its strength, during the last 10 years the north has recorded small gain.

  35. So..vukcevic: Everything is OK by now.
    If the Sun, as shown in your polar fields graph, as a recognized variable star, an electric z-pinch, is decreasing its field, and consequently, its currents to the earth, if we consider this as a cathode;corresponding earth´s own activity would increase, as in a electrolitical cell, reactions at the cathode change when current diminishes. For example, if you are electrowinning copper then, at the cathode will not form a plate of metallic copper but copper powder, and, if current is still decreased it will begin forming red or orange cuprous oxides. (Cu2O). Then, atmosphere reactions would be expected to change.

  36. @E.M.Smith
    The first graph you give it will be meaningful for our friend Vuk. So we´ll expect from him a more detailed explanation for electromagnetic illiterates like me.

  37. vukcevic says:

    The Earth magnetic field is a considerable puzzle. Interaction between the solar and geomagnetic fields is currently subject of the ESA’s studies, and hopefully they may come up at least with some of the answers.

    http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMHR50PFBG_index_1.html#a

    http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMLX5SHKHF_index_0.html

  38. @vukcevic
    Come on!, we all know you can. That’s peanuts for you!. The simplest the easiest. This is why I guess ancients preferred to explain everything as the action of waves, under the law of three and the law of the octave, simplifying things. But anyway a privileged brain is always needed.

  39. E.M.Smith says:

    @Adolfo:

    The best I’ve been able to find says that we’re about 2000 years away from the completion of a reversal, but that it can also take about 1000 to 1500 years for the reversal process to complete. (Based on extrapolation of physical models – i.e. that spinning ball full of mercury – as well as taking the theoretical models and ‘running them forward’.)

    So it’s kind of like Ice Ages (Ice Epochs). We are in one now, but you don’t notice as we’re enjoying an ‘interglacial'; but the interglacial is ending (and may have ended in 1816) as we “plunge” into a glacial period. Just that the onset is so slow, being thousands of years, that we see nothing in our short lives. The century to century oscillations swamp the downtrend in our history. In a similar way, the mag field is probably ‘in reversal’ and we’ll notice in another 1000 years…

    The models show that a reversal starts with more patches of “wrong way” flux. The ‘loops’ of flux start to poke out of the earths surface at odd places, and we start to get more ‘poles’ showing up. Kind of like on the sun when it gets sun spots with flux going in different directions making the spot. Eventually it gets to be so chaotic that there are “poles” all over the place, then they start to coalesce into a single N and single S, but in swapped positions.

    This whole process is expected to take on the order of 1500 to 2000 years to complete; but folks don’t know for sure as the data for fine resolution do not exist. So it’s based on modeling of the process and a little bit of sea bed rocks.

    Since we predominantly have a clear N and S pole that have been around for thousands of years, but have a few ‘wrong way’ spots; the highest probability is that we are starting a reversal, and it will continue to be mostly like it is now for about 1000 years; but with sporadically more places where a magnetic compass has a higher variance than expected and the occasional wrong way direction.

    Oh, and we might start getting Aurorae in more places 8-)

    Also note that the “mag field ends and we all get cosmic rayed to death” scenario of which Science Fiction is so fond; it just does not happen. We don’t go to ZERO mag field, we go to multipolar mag field. So all that happens is we get “northern lights” (or “southern lights”) in more places… Since folks live in Nome today just fine, their ought not to be any problems.

    And to Vukcevic’s point: It really is a mess trying to figure out how the earth’s mag field works all by itself. Adding in the solar and cosmic influences makes it hideously complex. I think it’s only been in the last decade or so that they figured out that a spinning molten metal ball made a chaotic mag field sometimes. I read the article (Discover magazine?) about 5 years back, IIRC. So this is a new field.

    Now take that barely worked out chaotically changing self energized mag field (based on the hydraulic dynamics of a liquid metal) and impose all the external electomagnetic interactions of an exterior electric current that will itself be partially influenced by those magnetic fields, and try to predict what will happen. Just try.

    Just getting the self generated field action worked out was so hard that it was easier to make a couple of meter diameter metal ball, fill it with mercury, and spin it at relative high speeds on a constant axis, then see what happens. (We won’t even begin to talk about putting in the gyroscopic precession and wobbles…)

    So this is a pretty well opaque area of understanding.

    This link:

    http://www.optcorp.com/edu/articleDetailEDU.aspx?aid=813

    shows a picture of the metal ball; but it looks like the story is from before the magazine article that reported the results. (In a couple of minutes of google time I couldn’t find the pretty picture and article for which I was looking… but this is close and is a decent pointer. If you want more I’d search based on details from the link.)

    So that’s our level of understanding. Making big balls of liquid metal, spinning them up fast, and asking: What the Hell is going on?

    We really are just puzzled apes staring at the magic and making up stories when it comes to this stuff. For now, at least. Maybe in a few hundred more years…

  40. @E.M.Smith and we might start getting Auroras in more places 8-)
    Precisely that!, that would be an early sign!. Vukcevic shows the bi-polarity of north pole:

    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/LFC21.htm

    (which, OT, remembers me of westward drive of civilizations…)

  41. However is it firmly established that the earth’s magnetic field is our own magnetic field or it is just the plasma electrical fields winding around it and working on a core of, say, magnetite, produces it?

  42. If it is like that, then we should see how the Sun’s polar fields are behaving (the “mains” where our earth is plugged in):
    And, as far as the Vukcevic equation, things will be much “more interesting” around 2020 :-)

  43. kevoka says:

    OK gotta ask this here (as it has bothered me for a long time).

    During the Ozone scare of the late 80’s-90’s we were informed that it was the CFG’s released in the northern hemisphere that caused the ozone hole over the South Pole to be increasing.

    1) CFG’s only travel south?
    2) Could have been the classic problem we see that once we can measure something, we detect a trend and panic. (temperature anyone?)

    However, I had read sometime ago that during periods of a magnetic field reversal the ozone layer would (and had been) be greatly diminished.

    Given this, my question: doesn’t the huge inversion right of the South Pole seem a more likely candidate to influence the the size of the ozone hole?

    From the image EM provided on Bermuda Triangle –

  44. E.M.Smith says:

    There is also the possibility that it’s a bit of both. We’ve got some of the mag field from the liquid metal spin, and some from the impressed current. There are folks that argue for both sides, but few that stand in the battle ground between them ;-)

    So we get to wait, and see. The “good news” is that we will likely live long enough to have an answer as 2020 to 2030 is not that far away.

    The “bad news” is that it could be a fairly rough ride depending on the nature of the answer 8-{

    My guess is that it’s a bit of both, with the self generated field kept more stable by the impressed external current, but going more chaotic when the current drops. But it’s lonely and uncomfortable standing between two sides tossing punches at each other, so I’d not advise it…

    But if I start seeing “Northern Lights” over San Francisco I’m gonna holler Real Loud!

  45. @kevoka
    The Ozone tale was just that, a tale. The CFC story is wrong, as these molecules are too heavy to reach that altitudes. It happens that, during SH summer time the Earth is nearer to the Sun on its orbit around the Sun, so the UV radiation makes that hole every year on the south pole, which by the same reason it is not possible when there is summer time in the NH.
    However, during the SH winter, the Ozono hole shrinks, why?, because the earth receives protons (hydrogen nucleii) from the sun, specially during proton flares, which react with Ozone (O3) to produce WATER (H2O); hence, the water cycle it is not closed but open.
    A japanese satellite identified a proton (GCR) source in the direction of the Aquarius constellation. When the Vernal Equinox was in that constelation, as it is now-though not in the same place-it happened the known UR´s story of Utnapishtim and the world deluge. (Needless to say that Aquarius is represented by a lady pouring down a jug full of water….).

  46. kevoka says:

    Thanks Adolfo.

    Is it expected that the Ozone layer would be depleted by a magnetic field reversal?

  47. E.M.Smith says:

    I’ve often wondered if the Birkland Current landing on the North Pole was sufficient to keep ozone up in winter, but the lack of such a current allowed the South Pole to lose it’s ozone, thus the “hole”.

    During the summer there is enough UV to make ozone in excess, so there is no hole.

    I do agree that the “Ozone Hole” as due to freon is a crock.

    For the simple reason that it’s only at the South Pole and only in winter. Just how Freon only works at the South Pole is a bit of an ‘issue’ for me… Also, while looking at the ozone density maps, it often looks like there are two spots of higher density on the North Pole – just as you would see if a giant Birkland Current was depositing charge carriers into the pole…

    Oddly, in this ozone map, we get the same two “bright spots” but on the South Pole (see the bottom ‘deviation’ map).

    http://woudc.ec.gc.ca/e/ozone/Curr_allmap_g.htm

    Haven’t seen that before…

  48. kevoka

    Thanks Adolfo.

    Is it expected that the Ozone layer would be depleted by a magnetic field reversal?
    As the earth’s negative pole is on the south pole now, that would change it to a new location,so nothing would happen with the ozone layer but a change in the position of the ozone hole.

  49. Paul Vaughan says:

    Something we need is a detailed long-term record of the 0 degrees C isotherm (globally, locally, seasonally, diurnally, etc.).

    Vukcevic has not yet overlaid Arctic drainage-basin precipitation.

    See the Russian literature on hydrology & Earth’s heterogeneous shells (gaseous, liquid, & solid ones – i.e. not just atmosphere & oceans).

    Temperature & pressure are related – and what happens around 0C is critical (due to the properties of water – e.g. temperature-precipitation relations flip sign).

    Clouds & precipitation [including snow (which accumulates) vs. rain (which 'eats' snow &/or runs off)]… (and our monitoring network is nowhere near the ‘optimal’ spatiotemporal resolution (bear in mind not only latitudinal gradients, but also elevational & continental vs. maritime gradients), so we need to be creative with our analyses [because it is not practical to wait]…)

    Suggestion:
    The chain goes FROM hydrology TO terrestrial magnetism (NOT vice versa!!)

    Temperature fluctuations (whether diurnal, seasonal, interannual, etc.) need not affect terrestrial magnetic oscillations directly – i.e. the relative motions of Earth’s shells are not independent of one another.

    When the Arctic Ocean is frozen it is continental (and when it isn’t it has limited connectivity). [Contrast with the perennially spinning Southern Ocean maritime hub.]

    [See the Russian literature...]

  50. E.M.Smith says:

    FWIW, I’ve put up an Ozone posting with ozone maps. It looks to me like a sort-of a reversal of the patterns I’d seen in quasi-random (i.e. sporadic and ill planned) sampling in the past. (So I looked when the muse hit me, and that’s not a statistically valid sampling technique ;-)

    No ozone hole in the south pole in terms of deviation from normal. The “two spots” that look to me like a Birkland current landing place are now on the South Pole rather than the North Pole (where I’d seen them in prior years, or so I interpreted it, but it’s just looking at the maps sporadically and making guesses as to what it meant.)

    At any rate, the whole Ozone Hole thing just smells like another modeling fantasy to me, and it looks in the “today map” like things have changed…

    http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/ozone-hole-history/

  51. @E.M.Smith

    The “two spots” that look to me like a Birkland current landing place are now on the South Pole rather than the North Pole
    You have made me remember something the french mathematician and mystic Rene Guenon said about the two “portals”on earth, as from the traditional knowledge, one the “assura loka” and the other the “deva loka”, the door of the devils and the door of the angels, both were the doors through which the souls departed from this world.

  52. @Paul Vaughan
    Suggestion:
    The chain goes FROM hydrology TO terrestrial magnetism (NOT vice versa!!)

    Do you say that sea currents with its moving charges generate the magnetic fields?, however these would be too low.

  53. kevok says:

    Adolfo,

    “that would change it to a new location,so nothing would happen with the ozone layer but a change in the position of the ozone hole.”

    I should have been more clear: During the process of pole reversal, is it expected the ozone layer be depleted (or greatly diminished)?

    I am asking, because what I read (saw on Discovery Channel? many moons ago) indicated that the Ozone layer was greatly diminished during the period the reversal was underway, but then rebuilt itself after the reversal was complete.

  54. kevoka says:

    Adolfo,

    “As the earth’s negative pole is on the south pole now, that would change it to a new location,so nothing would happen with the ozone layer but a change in the position of the ozone hole.”

    I should have been more clear in the question: is it expected the Ozone layer would be diminished (or depleted) during the process of pole reversal? After which it would rebuild.

    When I read this (or saw on the Discovery Channel?) there was evidence suggesting the Ozone layer had been depleted during the reversal process.

  55. I found the following quote in Thunderblogs page:
    quote from Kristian Birkeland’s monograph Norwegian Aurora Polaris Expedition 1902-1903:

    (Chapter VI. On Possible Electric Phenomena in Solar Systems and Nebulae)
    http://www.plasma-universe.com/index.ph … nd_Nebulae
    Kristian Birkeland wrote:We will now pass on to experiments that in my opinion have brought about the most important discoveries in the long chain of experimental analogies to terrestrial and cosmic phenomena that I have produced. In the experiments represented in figs. 248 a-e, there are some small white patches on the globe, which are due to a kind of discharge that, under ordinary circumstances, is disruptive, and which radiates from points on the cathode. If the globe has a smooth surface and is not magnetised, the disruptive discharges come rapidly one after another, and are distributed more or less uniformly all over the globe (see a). On the other hand, if the globe is magnetised, even very slightly, the patches from which the disruptive discharges issue, arrange themselves then in two zones parallel with the magnetic equator of the globe; and the more powerfully the globe is magnetised, the nearer do they come to the equator (see b, c, d). With a constant magnetisation, the zones of patches will be found near the equator if the discharge-tension is low, but far from the equator if the tension is high.
    And:
    First Global Connection Between Earth And Space Weather Found
    09.12.06

    Weather on Earth has a surprising connection to space weather occurring high in the electrically-charged upper atmosphere, known as the ionosphere, according to new results from NASA satellites.

    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/space_weather_link.html

    What this means is, the earth acting as a cathode it is subjected to a variable current from the Sun, which when strong makes the
    jet stream get closer to the poles, while when low jet streams will migrate equator ward.
    This is transcendental because THIS IS the origin of climate variation on the Earth. So, the changes in GMF as pointed out by Vukcevik modulate, as experimentally shown by Birkeland in his Terrella, climate. So we have two variables: One from the Sun
    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/PF.gif and the other would be from the earth’s GMF itself.

    But the question for Vukcevick would be: Is it the earth’s magnetic field its own locally produced or rather it is the consequence of a current originated from the Sun, as a coil around a ferrite or magnetite core, or both?

  56. E.M.Smith says:

    Very Interesting, Adolfo!

  57. I have found this:

    http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKvrdYM_MzxE_9rpKbaSeOKgQJI6KeexhEYM9FsrrdJrX4268&t=1&usg=__ZyEwz1VWe2hm9n7ym5OFXtIBoDs=

    I two different waves (sun and earth’s) interfere a third new one is created: Climate on earth.

  58. @vukcevic

    Thanks!

  59. vukcevic says:

    The Earth’s magnetic field has many unknowns. Although the main ‘dipole’ is weakening, that is not happening everywhere. The notable and important as a major global climate factor, are the certain areas of the Pacific Ocean where GMFz has been oscillating around an upward slope for the last 400 years.
    One interesting aspect of this is:
    if for the section 1920-1990 GMFz values are plotted on an inversed scale (with a rising trend removed as is case with AO, AMO and PDO indices ) and compared to the PDO index for the same period, then correlation factor of 0.84 (R2 = 0.7042) is obtained.

    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/PDO.htm

    Considering that ‘the causes of the AO, the NAO or the PDO are still unknown’, no ‘serious’ climatologist dare comment on such unrelated events.

  60. @vukcevic

    It seems, according to your equations that effectively every change on the earth is related to GMF, but does the GMF vary according to Sun´s magnetic fields, as it would seem, according to NASA:

    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/space_weather_link

    How much of this variation is caused or originated in the earth itself?, as Birkeland states:
    “if the globe is magnetised, even very slightly, the patches from which the disruptive discharges issue, arrange themselves then in two zones parallel with the magnetic equator of the globe; and the more powerfully the globe is magnetised, the nearer do they come to the equator “
    In other words: Is the earth´s magnetic field powered from the outside?

  61. vukcevic says:

    Hey, don’t think I got an answer to everything.
    This is how I see these events:

    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/feedback.htm

  62. @vukcevic
    Hey, don’t think I got an answer to everything.
    You almost have it!.
    The answer to everything is just floating around, it is just a matter of promoting a kind of witches’ coven brainstorm, with the purpose of establishing an alternative paradigm for the benefit of future generations, which otherwise would be subjected to anything from imposed consensual science to genetic manipulation.

  63. E.M.Smith says:

    You may not have an answer to everything, but you have better answers to most things… IMHO…

  64. vukcevic says:

    E.M.Smith
    You may not have an answer to everything, but you have better answers to most things… IMHO…

    Thanks.
    Let’s say, for the time being, no better or worse than any other; just different.

  65. If different means “from the real world” and not from “Beyond the twilight zone” it is better. BTW, a few days ago, it was on the news, the CERN kids were asking for a bigger (50 km long) syncrotron, just to facilitate gay marriage between protons :-)

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