Or: When is enough Circumstantial Evidence evidence of circumstances?
There are several lines of ‘evidence’ that I’ve been teasing at for a year or three now. They wander back and forth. They hint and tease, but refuse to come out and just say it.
There are some sites and links that assert, with great vigor, that The Irish Are A Lost Tribe Of Israel. Others assert it’s the Welsh. Or the Scots. Or… They trot out linguistic claims that a Welsh translation of the Old Testament Hebrew is hardly a translation at all, more a lexical substitution, with idiom and tone near perfectly matching.
YAIR DAVIDI REPLIES:
Extracts from Chapter Seventeen of “Lost Israelite Identity” which is presently out of print:
Insular British Celtic tongues, especially colloquial Welsh, says W.H.Worrell, show certain peculiarities which are reminiscent of Hamitic and Semitic tongues and are unparalleled in Aryan languages. Similarly, according to H.Wagner:
“Irish..has as many features in common with non-Indo-European languages, especially with Hamito-Semitic languages, as with other Indo-European languages”.
“Insular Celtic languages.. the grammatical categories having many affinities with non-Indo-European languages, in particular Basque and Berber”.
“The comparative typology of insular Celtic initiated by Morris Jones and further developed by Pokorny, G.B.Adams, and myself has revealed that most of the many peculiar features of insular Celtic rarely traceable in other Indo-European languages have analogies in Basque, Berber, Egyptian, Semitic, and even in Negro languages”.
“Certain features [(of marginal influence only)] of Old Irish verb forms can be understood only in the light of Hittite, Vedic, Sanskrit, and Mycenean Greek”.
J.Morris Jones said that,
“The pre-Aryan idioms which still live in Welsh and Irish were derived from a language allied to Egyptian tongues”.
The above linguistic remarks show that Insular Celtic (i.e. of Britain and Ireland as distinct from the Continental forms which were somewhat different) is consistent with the claims proposed herein: i.e. The original tongue of the Insular Celts was Semitic (Hebrew) which marginally was influenced by Mycenean Greek, Hittite, Indo-European (Sanskrit), Syrian, Mitanni, and what not. Heavy Hamitic influences may be attributable to those of some of the neighboring peoples, such as the Canaanites, and Egyptians, and to having sojourned in a North African environment. In addition, the natives of Spain amongst whom the Insular Celts or a good portion of them once dwelt, traded with, and fought against, were also at least in part of North African Berber related Hamitic origin. This explanation may sound involved and complicated but it accords with the evidence when archaeological, anthropological, mythological, and linguistic findings are compared with each other. At all events the natives of Ireland and Wales must have used a Hamitic /Semitic tongue(s) before they came into contact with Continental Indo-European ones.
HEBREW IN WELSH???
It was seen above that Irish and colloquial Welsh definitely have some type of underlying linguistic base that must only derive from Middle Eastern (Semitic) and/or North African Hamitic sources. This conclusion was derived from the quoted opinions of linguistic scientists still active in their field today.
It so happens that in the past there were others who held similar opinions but went further than their present-day continuers care to. They expressly related Celtic tongues to Hebrew!!!
A writer who signed his name “Glas” submitted a list of Welsh words with Hebrew origins in 1832. The writer remarked that, “But the best proof of the Eastern descent of the ancient British is the close resemblance and connection existing between the Welsh and Hebrew languages, even at this day. As a proof of this we have extracted the following vocabulary of words in both tongues, so closely resembling each other in sound and sense as to leave no doubt whatever on the subject. Many of these words, it will be found, have been transmitted from the Welsh, through the Anglo-Saxon into our modern English. It would be easy to swell their number..
Some of the examples adduced by the above writer were:
Aeth: He went, he is gone; hence Athah
Aml: Plentiful, ample =Hamale
Ydom: the earth = Adamah
Awye: air, sky = auor, or
bu: it came to pass = bo
boten, or potten : belly = beten.
brith: bright = barud
cas: hatred = caas (anger).
dafnu: to drop, or distill by drops = nataph, taph.
In 1675 Charles Edwards (“Hanes y Fydd”) published A number of Welsh Cambro-Brittanic Hebraisms in which he shows that whole phrases in Welsh can be closely paralleled by whole phrases in Hebrew.
From the list of Charles Edwards, L.G.A. Roberts (1919) made a selection and we have selected examples from Roberts after slightly modernising the Hebrew transliterations: It should be noted that when account is taken for likely and known dialectical changes of pronounciation the examples given in effect show identical Welsh parallel phrases for the Hebrew original.
It goes on from there at some length. There is even a place where it begins to claim that the flood of folks around the world from the British Empire are the Lost Tribes…
“BRIT-AM ISRAEL” BELIEVES:
* The Hebrew Bible is the message of God.
* Out of the original 12 Tribes of Israel Ten were lost. Two remained. The present-day Jews are descended mainly from the two remaining Tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
* The Khazars were a Kingdom in southern Russia many of whose leaders converted to Judaism. The Khazars were descended from the Lost Ten Tribes. The Khazars were blood-relatives of the Picts who went to Scotland, and of the Anglo-Saxons, and of peoples in Scandinavia.
* In addition to the Khazars, many other converts to Judaism through the ages were descended from assimilated Jews or from members of the Lost Ten Tribes.
* Most of the Lost Ten Tribes migrated to Northwest and Western Europe and their descendants are now in those areas or in North America, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.
* We do not claim that all residents of the said nations are descended from Israel. We do however affirm that most descendants of the Lost Ten Tribes are residents of those nations. On the whole they are unaware of their Israelite Identity. Even so in the course of history the Israelite origins of peoples in those areas have influenced national developments and national characteristics.
* The Tribe of Joseph was divided into two other Tribes: Ephraim and Menasseh. People from ALL of the Israelite Tribes congregated in North America but in general the U.S.A. is dominated by Menasseh. Britain has characteristics of Ephraim.
* Reuben was important in France, Issachar in Switzerland, Benjamin in Belgium, Zebulon in Holland, Dan in Denmark, Naphtali in Norway, Gad in Sweden, the country of Finland was influenced by the Tribes of Simeon, Issachar, and Gad; Simeon, Dan, and Ephraim were important in Ireland.
* There is a need for the present-day “Jews” of Judah and the Lost Ten Tribes to recognize each other, and to work towards re-unification and reconciliation.
My ambitions are much more limited than reuniting the Ten Tribes and changing the ethnic history of half the world… I just want to find out if it is reasonable to think there is a Hamitic / Semitic thread in insular Celtic… Maybe I think too small ;-)
A fairly long and careful exploration. With an extensive bibliography. As it requires a ‘log in’ to download (but lets you read online) and has a very nice ‘click-grab to scroll’ but blocks ‘mark / copy / paste'; there are no quotes from it here. But it basically finds much in the thesis, along with some grammatical ‘issues’.
It also has some nice ‘check mark’ charts of which languages have what features.
One part in particular was nice to find in that it gives a plausible explanation for why the grammars have similarities, but many of the lexical items diverge. (Basically, the Indo-European rush swamped the lexicon, but at the far margin was not enough to change the grammar. There is some support for that, too, in the book I reviewed some months back “Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue” which found a kind of ‘pigeon’ or ‘creolization’ in the entire Germanic family prior to the formation of English and that it had indications of being a Hamitic / Semitic base largely converting to Indo-European; with various degrees of success.)
At any rate, the link is worth a read if you have the time and like linguistics.
Meanwhile, back at the less academic:
Consider a curiosity: “That the ‘fair Kelts of an Irish Village’ are indeed Israelites is thus clear. Even their [Kelts'] language further confirms such identification, for it (Erse) is akin to both Gaelic and Welsh. The similarity of the last-mentioned [Welsh] to Hebrew is so great that it drew forth considerable research on the part of the noted ['Jewish'] Hebrew Scholar of the last century, Dr. Moses Margoliouth, and the following comment:
” ‘A small remnant of [Solomon's subjects] remained in Cornwall since that time (the time of the building of his Temple). I have traced that remnant by the paths of philology, and the byways of nomenclature. I might adduce an array of whole sentences, exactly alike in the languages of Hebrew and the ancient Cornish. I might adduce some of the proper names which prevailed among the aboriginal Britons long before they knew anything of Christianity, such as Adam, Abraham, Asaph,…Daniel, Solomon…(The Hebrews In East Anglia , Margoliouth).’ “ [UNCOVERING THE MYSTERIES OF YOUR HIDDEN INHERITANCE, Robert Alan Balaicius, Appendix E, pp.177-78, citing C.F. Parker's ISRAEL'S MIGRATIONS OR AN ATTACK ANSWERED, p.13]
That there were Hebrew colonies in Cornwall, England, is not surprising to those who realise that Yahshua’s uncle, Yosef of Arimathea, was a Roman Decurio, having supervision over the tin mining (and probably mining generally, whether iron , copper or tin). He is remembered in song by miners and residents of that area still in the song: “Joseph Was A Tin Man.”
Also, there seems to be every reason to suppose that Yahshua accompanied his uncle, especially after the death of his father, Joseph, on sailing trips to the British Isles (and perhaps others, such as Ireland). We are confident he also set foot on Iberia. This is not fantasy. Please recall the imagery of Yahshua in his parables, where he frequently referenced the sea, fish, fishing, sailors, fishermen, and wealthy merchants (such as his uncle) who went off on business far away. He spoke parables in imagery, which was impressed upon his mind during those exciting voyages westward with Yosef of Arimathea. He chose His first Apostles from the rank of fishermen. His miracles often involved fish, boats at sea, or on sea itself. His disciples’ symbol became the fish. He seemed to enjoy the company of ordinary–probably often “salty”–men. The Pharaisees even upbraided him for sharing the table with ordinary sorts–what with their common, vulgar ways. What the Pharaisees didn’t understand was that they heard His voice. And on His trips with his uncle to England, he undoubtedly was delighted to speak to the Britons and other locals, laughing with pleasure at each others’s dialect.
As further support for this Hebrew language migration, consider:
“William Tyndale (1492-1536), the English reformer (who was strangled to death and then burned for his translation of the Holy Scriptures into English), announced his remarkable discovery that because of the similarities between Hebrew and English, English was the most suitable language for a translation of the Scriptures. He said, ‘The properties of the Hebrew tongue agreeth one thousand times more with the English than with the Latin or the Greek. The manner of speaking is in both one, so that, in a thousand places, there needest not be but to translate the Hebrew word for word.’ “
“This is no mere coincidence, for God declared (Isaiah 28:11) that He would speak to his people in another language…” [UNCOVERING THE MYSTERIES OF YOUR HIDDEN INHERITANCE, Robert Alan Balaicius, Appendix E, p.178]
It continues on from there, continuing the same easy style, and with similar theme. That even Tyndale found a parallel is somewhat encouraging. And that it was to English, and not just to Celtic, also encourages. ( I’ve often felt something just a bit ‘alien’ about other Indo-European languages. As though the words had similar roots, but the spirit of the thing was just not quite full. There are some features of English and Irish that I love most; missing or scarce in other languages. So perhaps I’ll take a look once again at Coptic or Hebrew…)
This site, too, find a connection:
An Afro Asiatic connection to Celtic languages.
Posted on July 12, 2008 | Leave a comment
It seems that Celtic languages show some grammatical similarities to Afro Asiatic languages.
North Africans may have beaten Celts to Ireland
The Sunday Times – 28th May 2000
WHEN the Celts landed in Ireland 2,500 years ago, they may have been met by a population of North Africans, scientists now believe, writes Jan Battles.
Linguists say a study of Irish and other Celtic languages has produced possible evidence that when the Celts invaded Ireland and Britain there were already Afro-Asiatic speakers here. Celtic languages – Irish, Scots Gaelic and Welsh – incorporate grammatical traits found in Afro-Asiatic tongues that are otherwise unrelated, according to research published last week in Science magazine.
And from “Science Magazine” no less… But it looks like I’d have to use the dreaded “Afro-Asiatic” search term to find such new stuff… Perhaps tomorrow ;-)
Claims to tell the Celtic history up to 583 BC where a key person is name Zarah. Searching on that name doesn’t find much. But there is a wiki with a different vowel in it:
Meanwhile, back at the “gather.com” link…
The Voyage of Zarah: Revealing Gaelic History to 583 BCE.
May 27, 2009 06:56 PM EDT
The Voyage of Zarah is a historical research paper that re-examines the lost history and roots of western civilization. Zarah is a person and he is the father to the Gaelic tribes of Western Europe. Zarah’s voyage starts when he was born as a twin in 1883 BC to the tribe of Judah. Genesis 38:27-30
Zarah was the first born son of Judah but his brother Pharez would breach his birthright and come out of the mother’s womb first. Pharez becomes the bloodlines of the Jews and kings over Judah and the other tribes of Israel. Zarah on the other hand was the first born but has a whole other history timeline, but remember Zarah is connected right back to this main bloodline with Judah and right back through to Jacob-Isaac – and Abraham.
Zarah are the tribes that make-up all the Gaelic – Celtic – Saxon – Norsemen tribe’s that cultivated Europe’s first civilized people and nations.
And the sons of Ju’dah; Er, and O’nan, and She’lah, and Pha’rez, and Za’rah: . Er and O’nan died in the land of Ca’naan. Genesis 46:12.
The tribe of Judah will come back into the story with the Zarah tribes starting in 583BC and different times with the connection with the Irish, Scot, Welsh and English Saxon. Also, the other tribes of Israel come into the confused story in the British Islands from about 400 BC onward in different times to our present day.
It goes on like that for a while… There’s all sorts of interesting stuff, but no way to tell if it is true or just a nice fairy tail…
Crete / Egypt / Scythia 1680
Jacob & tribes go to Egypt
Milesian /Spain / Ireland
Moses / tribes know Zarah in Egypt
Milesian’s leave Egypt in ships
Moses & tribes put into slavery
Sailed the Med. & Black Sea
Israelites exodus out of Egypt
Judges & King’s period
Portugal & France 1100 BC
David’s time period #
Solomon time period
Now there IS evidence for Celts wandering along the Mediterranean coastline, even reaching Iberia with some in Spain and some in Portugal (“Galicia” is in Spain, but they speak a language closer to Portuguese now). We also know that the Celts of Ireland got there from Iberia (and those of Scotland from Ireland). Parts “check out”. But the key links are speculative. It goes on to assert that the Stone of Destiny was the stone of Jacob. And more. There are several sites like that.
Yet a comparison of the Swadesh List for various Gaelic languages and a list of Hamitic / Semitic languages shows nearly nothing obviously in common… While whole phrases of less common words may be similar, the Swadesh list of core words is different.
So we have the curious point that Irish uses Verb Subject Object ( VSO ) order, like the “AfroAsiatic” languages ( I hate that term… just seems like doing a lot of work to avoid “Semitic / Hamitic” and drags in more of Africa and Asia than is needed for this piece, but it is the ‘modern’ term) but unlike pretty much all the non-Gaelic languages. Even more oddly, the (extinct, sad to say) old Celtic languages of the Italo-Celts and the Gauls had more normal Indo-European word order (typically SVO Subject Verb Object, but occasionally SOV Subject Object Verb).
So there are a few features of Gaelic and the other insular Celtic languages ( Manx, Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Cornish, Welsh and likely old Breton but I’ve not dug into it) that sure LOOK like syntax and usage patterns from a Hamitic / Semitic influence
Something of a mixed bag. This article tries to do a nice job of it, with a novel way to look at both Y and mDNA bits for Dad and Mom and look for trends. It claims to find that the folks on the Atlantic coast are mostly from the Atlantic coast…
Celtic languages are now spoken only on the Atlantic facade of Europe, mainly in Britain and Ireland, but were spoken more widely in western and central Europe until the collapse of the Roman Empire in the first millennium a.d. It has been common to couple archaeological evidence for the expansion of Iron Age elites in central Europe with the dispersal of these languages and of Celtic ethnicity and to posit a central European “homeland” for the Celtic peoples. More recently, however, archaeologists have questioned this “migrationist” view of Celtic ethnogenesis. The proposition of a central European ancestry should be testable by examining the distribution of genetic markers; however, although Y-chromosome patterns in Atlantic Europe show little evidence of central European influence, there has hitherto been insufficient data to confirm this by use of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Here, we present both new mtDNA data from Ireland and a novel analysis of a greatly enlarged European mtDNA database. We show that mtDNA lineages, when analyzed in sufficiently large numbers, display patterns significantly similar to a large fraction of both Y-chromosome and autosomal variation. These multiple genetic marker systems indicate a shared ancestry throughout the Atlantic zone, from northern Iberia to western Scandinavia, that dates back to the end of the last Ice Age.
I think they leave out the simple fact that the populations in other parts of Europe today may not be the same folks who were there a few thousand years ago, so reasoning from distributions today can be ‘risky business’. IMHO, what they DO show is that the folks along the Atlantic have a large shared genetic history and it wasn’t “run over” as much as the rest of the mainland Europeans.
Still, there are some useful bits. There is a
Estimated “dispersal points” (centers of gravity) for the 146 mtDNA haplotypes (positions 16093–16362) found in Ireland. Each circle represents a distinct haplotype. Circle size indicates the frequency of that type in Ireland, with the largest representing the CRS (n=56) and the smallest indicating a frequency of 1; intermediate frequencies are proportional to circle area. SDs are indicated as follows: black = 1,000 km. Eleven centers (ten in Asia and one in Africa) are outside the range of this map.
So right after saying there isn’t much proof of a central European genetic homeland, we have a map where the size of the circle is the amount of contribution with most of it in the center of Europe… Oh Well…
But of interest to me is the lone small black dot on top of Egypt…
So a story that starts with a man and wife; he from a Celtic area near “Schthia” and she from Egypt, where they and their sons cruise through much of Mediterranean Europe on their way to Iberia (and the boys pick up wives along the way) sure looks to me like it matches those dots…
IMHO, these folks do a much nicer job of integrating genetics and history:
But this one has a very nice set of graphics of haplogroup distributions:
Of particular interest here is that Celts have a very high percentage of R1b. There is a VERY closely related type of R1a that is found in much of Eastern Europe. An older I type is found in greater percentages in Iceland and Scandinavia. The R1b type is also found down toward Turkey and Scythia and all those places where Celts ran around. (Along with some of that Viking I type too).
The general impression is of some folks from a mixed area near Greece, moving out to the fringes (perhaps as the ice melted and things improved, or perhaps after one too many wars) where a small sample with lots of R1b comes to populate the area. Basically, a moderately homogeneous result from selection bias in who moved there.
IF I’m reading my graphs shades of pastel right, the mDNA map shows H dominate in the Atlantic Celts area, but with a pretty good mix of others around too. Egypt has a decent representation of H along with many others ( J, K and T too that are also in Atlantic Celtic areas). It looks to me like the genetics allow for the story to be true. (No, it doesn’t prove it, just doesn’t conflict with it). In comparison, America is dominated by mDNA type A that just doesn’t exist in Ireland of old. Similarly the Y type is a mismatch. So you can quickly see that native Americans have connections largely to Asia and any other type is in very small percentages.
There’s a simple intro and a genetic based migration map here:
From the wiki on Haplogroup R1b, we find the origin is over near Anatolia / Thrace (hmmmm…)
Now R1b and R1a separated relatively recently. Somewhere around 18,000 to 20,000 or so years ago. We were in the ice age glacial then, and as the ice melted, both groups (that are often found near each other in central Europe) spread out. Part going north and east to become Slavs, part going north and west to become Celts. Each related to an earlier R type (unadorned by variations).
At that wiki link there is also a ‘concentration’ map that shows a pocket of about 25% R1b type down toward where Anatolia runs into Iraq / Iran / Caucasus. So there’s even a bit of what is usually considered a ‘Celtic Marker’ down in those Muslim lands.
Oddly, it turns out that some of the Egyptian Pharaohs were R1b as well:
Pharaoh Tutankhamun, Akhenaten and Amenhotep III were R1b
The Egyptians have tested autosomal and Y-DNA markers of three Pharaohs of the 18th dynasty : Amenhotep III, his son Akhenaten and grandson Tutankhamun. The aim was to determine the cause of death of Tutankhamun, who died at age 19. It appears to have been malaria.
Although not yet published officially, the Y-DNA results were said to confirm the paternity between the Pharaohs. The video from Discovery Channel shows the Y-STR results*, which appear to be R1b and indeed the European R1b1b2 rather than the Levantine/Egyptian R1b1a. R1b1b2 is quite rare in modern Egypt (2% of the population) and was assumed to have come mostly through the Greek and Roman occupation. R1b1a makes up 4% of the Egyptian male lineages and dates from the Paleolithic.
The 18th dynasty (starting in 1570 BCE) follows the period of Indo-European expansion to Europe (4300-2000 BCE), India, Persia and the Middle-East (1700-1500 BCE). The Hittites took over central Anatolia from 1750 BCE, and the Mitanni (of Indo-Iranian origin) ruled Syria from circa 1500 BCE.
Egypt’s 18th dynasty inaugurated the New Kingdom after the Second Intermediate Period, when the Hyksos (“foreign rulers”) took over power between 1650 and 1570 BCE. It is very possible that the 18th Dynasty was of Hyksos origin, which could be Hittite or of other Indo-European origin. The Hyksos were described as bowmen and cavalrymen wearing the cloaks of many colors associated with the mercenary Mitanni. This strongly suggest an Indo-European origin indeed, as the steppe people were mounted archers, and the Mitanni are of proven IE origin.
So, aside from just the “snide remark” that “Boy, those Celts sure do get around…” and “they like rising to be top dog too…”
One of the more important things to note is that reference to the Hyksos. And the presence of indo-europeans in Egypt. It is not very much of a leap, at all, to saying someone with an R1b Y chromosome picked up a bride in Egypt. In the case of the Pharaoh it was a lot of them…
“277 BC – 276 BC
4,000 Celts are employed in Egypt under Ptolemy II.”
The Celtic Warriors of Ancient Egypt
Today, Celtic languages and cultures are mostly restricted to Ireland, parts of Scotland, Wales, and Brittany. In the centuries immediately before the rise of the Roman Empire, however, Celtic-speaking tribes controlled much of Europe. Bands of Celtic mercenaries and adventurers made their presence felt as far afield as Thrace, Greece, Judea, and Africa.
In the 4th Century BC, Celtic warriors gained the attention of the cities of Greece, Italy, and the Mediterranean islands. In 390 BC they pillaged Etruria, and even sacked a small city along the Tiber River, that went by the name of Roma…
Celtic warriors became famous for their courage, their indifference to wounds, and the quality of their weapons. Their nobles rode to battle on horses, blowing trumpets and wearing fine jewelry. Common warriors went on foot, wearing their hair long and shouting wild battle-cries. The Celts favored massive swords, javelins, and beautifully decorated shields. Chieftains and elite warriors wore tall helmets, sometimes decorated with horns or metal figurines, and wore chainmail shirts.
Throughout the 4th and early 3rd Centuries BC, Celtic mercenaries were employed in the Meditarranean region from Sparta to Syracuse. They formed a large part of the Carthaginian army in both the First and the Second Punic Wars, marching through the Alps with Hannibal and fighting at Trebia, Cannae, and Zama. At least one other African power took note of the Celts in the 3rd Century, however – Ptolemaic Egypt.
From the death of Alexander the Great in 323 BC to the death of Cleopatra in 31 BC, Egypt was ruled by the descendants of Alexander’s general Ptolemaeos Lagos. Though the nucleus of the Ptolemaic army consisted of “native” Greek and Egyptian soldiers, like all of the Diadokhi the Ptolemies made great use of mercenaries. From as early as c. 260 BC, Celtic warriors from the Eastern European tribes were included in the Egyptian battle-order.
That part about Carthage is particularly interesting as they were the Phoenicians. That is, a closely related tribe to the Hebrews.
At this point the history makes it pretty clear that when looking at various Hamitic / Semitic peoples vs Celts “They’ve met”.
There is no barrier, at all, for a warrior of Celtic background, to have gone off to “Egypt” (that in ancient times was basically anywhere in North Africa) and met up with a Hamitic / Semitic lady. Picked up some coin and the favor of a patron, and left with same. And the lady. The genetic markers indicate a general tendency to migrate “out the gate” (of Gibraltar).
It is a very short step from that, to having a language that reflects some Hamitic / Semitic grammar and phrasing, but with largely Indo-European words in the lexicon.
Now, I’d not thought that maybe, being particularly prone to remembering nearly everything (the Celts had an educational system based on memorization, and error was discouraged…) the Celts just might have had a nice little story ‘telling the tale’ that summed it all up. Yet they do.
Looking at the mythology and stories of the Scots / Irish themselves. They say an Indo-European Celtic speaking man and his Hamitic – Semitic speaking wife moved across the Mediterranean with their family. Eventually reaching the Iberian coast (where even today we find Galicia and a Celtic heritage). Later they saw Ireland and moved once again (or one variation is that their kids did the moving). The legend says that they CHOSE to blend the best bits of both linguistic heritages. Sure seems to fit all the known facts… “Tell you what, dear, we’ll use my word list and your syntax and grammar…”
The Lebor Gabála (Book of Invasions — probably first written in the second half of the 11th century AD) describes the origin of the Gaelic people. They descended from Goídel Glas, a Scythian who was present at the fall of the Tower of Babel, and Scota, a daughter of a pharaoh of Egypt. Two branches of their descendants left Egypt and Scythia at the time of the Exodus of Moses, and after a period of wandering the shores of the Mediterranean (including sustained settlements at Miletus and Zancle) arrived in the Iberian Peninsula, where they settled after several battles. One of them, Breogán, built a tower at a place called Brigantia (probably in the coast of Galicia, near A Coruña (Corunna), which was then “Brigantia” (today Betanzos) and where a Celtic tribe called “Brigantes” is attested in ancient times — see Tower of Hercules) from the top of which he, or his son Íth, first saw Ireland.
Edward J. Cowan has traced the first appearance of Scota in literature to the 12th century. Scota appears in the Irish Book of Leinster (containing a redaction of the Lebor Gabála Érenn). However a recension found in a 11th century manuscript of the Historia Brittonum contains an earlier reference to Scota. The 12th century sources state that Scota was the daughter of an egyptian pharaoh, a contemporary of Moses, who married Geytholos (Goídel Glas) and became the eponymous founders of the Scots and Gaels after being exiled from Egypt. The earliest Scottish sources claim Geytholos was “a certain king of the countries of Greece, Neolus, or Heolaus, by name”, while the Lebor Gabála Érenn Leinster redaction in contrast describes him as a scythian. Other manuscripts of the Lebor Gabála Érenn contain a variant legend of Scota’s husband, not as Goídel Glas but instead Mil Espaine and connect him to ancient Iberia. Although these legends vary, they all agree that Scota was the eponymous founder of the Scots and that she also gave her name to Scotland.
At this point I ought to add that the Hyksos might also have been Hebrews. One reconstruction I watched on The History Channel claimed that to be the best ‘fit’ and had a well thought out rational. (Including the point that Tutmoses means ‘brother of Moses’…) so one ‘possible’ is that the “Daughter of a Pharaoh” might have simply been Hebrew as they were getting out of Egypt in a hurry ;-) The Egyptians then tried to erase the Hyksos from their history, leaving many parts a bit unclear.
IRELAND IN THE LORE OF THE ANCIENTS
SCOTIA (A name transferred to Alba about ten centuries after Christ) was one of the earliest names of Ireland – so named, it was said, from Scota, the daughter of Pharaoh, one of the ancient female ancestors of the Milesians – and the people were commonly called Scotti or Scots – both terms being frequently used by early Latin historians and poets. One of its ancient titles was Hibernia (used by Caesar) which some trace from Ivernia, the name, it is said, of a people located in the south of the Island. But most trace it from Eber or Heber, the first Milesian king of the southern half, just as the much later name, Ireland, is by some traced from Ir, whose family were in the northeastern corner of the island. Though it seems much more likely that this latter name was derived from the most common title given to the Island by its own inhabitants, Eire – hence Eireland, – Ireland. It was first Northmen and then the Saxons, who, in the ninth and tenth century began calling it Ir-land, or Ir-landa – Ireland.
In the oldest known foreign reference to Ireland, it was called Ierna. This was the title used by the poet Orpheus in the time of Cyrus of Persia, in the sixth century before Christ. Aristotle, in his Book of the World, also called Ierna. It was usually called either Hibernia or Scotia by the Latin writers. Tacitus, Caesar, and Pliny call it Hibernia.
“This Isle is sacred named by all the ancients,
From times remotest in the womb of Chronos,
This Isle which rises over the waves of ocean,
Is covered with a sod of rich luxuriance.
And peopled far and wide by the Hiberni”
By Rufus Festus Avienus, who wrote this at the beginning of the fourth century.
Note that the author, Rufus Festus Avienus is being called a redhead, thus “rufus”…
Given the tendency of my Irish kin to, um, “embellish”… I’d think the reality may have been just a bit more prosaic…
Perhaps just a Phoenician Princess and Thracian Gaul Prince…
Yes, the legend says Scythian or Greek… but we need to look just a bit at that. “Way back when” what WAS Scythia and who lived in what we now call “Greece”? In different parts, and at different times, it, um, varied.
Back To History
First a small reminder that Galacians were Celts:
And how did those Celts end up in the middle of what is now the Anatolian Peninsula of Turkey?
Ancient Galatia (Greek: Γαλατία) was an area in the highlands of central Anatolia in modern Turkey. Galatia was named for the immigrant Gauls from Thrace (cf. Tylis), who settled here and became its ruling caste in the 3rd century BC, following the Gallic invasion of the Balkans in 279 BC. It has been called the “Gallia” of the East, Roman writers calling its inhabitants Galli (Gaul or Celt). The Galateans themselves were not literate, and their name for themselves remains unknown.
OK, now we’ve got Celts running around the Balkans and taking over Turkey… It’s not THAT far from there to Egypt. Those areas have been part of the same empire on many occasions. (Ottoman-Turk, Byzantine, Roman, …)
Gallic groups, originating from the various La Tène chiefdoms, began a south-eastern movement into the Balkan peninsula from the 4th century BC. Although Celtic settlements were concentrated in the western half of the Carpathian basin, there were notable incursions, and settlements, within the Balkan peninsula itself.
From their new bases in northern Illyria and Pannonia, the Gallic invasions climaxed in the early 3rd century BC, with the invasion of Greece. The 279 BC invasion of Greece proper was preceded by a series of other military campaigns waged toward southern Balkans and against the kingdom of Macedonia, favoured by the state of confusion ensuing from the intricated succession to Alexander. A part of the invasion crossed over to Anatolia and eventually settled in the area that came to be named after them, Galatia.
From the 4th century BC, Celtic groups pushed into the Carpathian region and the Danube basin, coinciding with their movement into Italy. The Boii and Volcae were two large Celtic confederacies who generally cooperated in their campaigns. Splinter groups moved south via two major routes: one following the Danube river, another eastward from Italy. According to legend, 300,000 Celts moved into Italy and Illyria. By the 3rd century, the native inhabitants of Pannonia were almost completely Celticized
So all you folks with Northern Italian and / or Greek ancestors may need to learn to ‘embrace your inner Celt’ ;-) Check out that family tree and see if there are any ‘red headed cousins’ running around ;-) (Yes, I know, lots of Celts have dark hair… so the lack of a redhead doesn’t get you off the hook 8-0! )
OK, the point here is just that saying “Old Grampa came from Greece” doesn’t make him an ethnic Greek… He could easily have been a Celt, looking to ‘move on’. Now this particular Celtic invasion was a bit later than the likely arrival of Celts in Ireland. So it would likely have to be some earlier Celtic group. Still, it’s an existence proof…
Now, back at Thrace… ( I always wondered who the Thracians were…) Unfortunately, we won’t find out for the simple reason that nobody really knows. They were a relatively rural people who mostly just lived life and didn’t leave a lot of historical record.
Origins and ethnogenesis
See also: Prehistoric Balkans#Iron Age
The origins of the Thracians remain obscure, in absence of written historical records. Evidence of proto-Thracians in the prehistoric period depends on remains of material culture. It is generally proposed that a proto-Thracian people developed from a mixture of indigenous peoples and Indo-Europeans from the time of Proto-Indo-European expansion in the Early Bronze Age when the latter, around 1500 BC, conquered the indigenous peoples. We speak of proto-Thracians from which during the Iron Age (about 1000 BC) Dacians and Thracians begin developing.
Identity and distribution
Divided into separate tribes, the Thracians did not manage to form a lasting political organization until the Odrysian state was founded in the 5th century BC. Like the Illyrians, the mountainous regions were home to various warlike and ferocious Thracian tribes, while the plains peoples were apparently more peaceable.
Thracians inhabited parts of the ancient provinces: Thrace, Moesia, Macedonia, Dacia, Scythia Minor, Sarmatia, Bithynia, Mysia, Pannonia, and other regions on the Balkans and Anatolia. This area extends over most of the Balkans region, and the Getae north of the Danube as far as beyond the Bug.
These Indo-European peoples, while considered barbarian and rural by their refined and urbanized Greek neighbors, had developed advanced forms of music, poetry, industry, and artistic crafts. Aligning themselves in kingdoms and tribes, they never achieved any form of national unity beyond short, dynastic rules at the height of the Greek classical period. Similar to the Gauls and other Celtic tribes, most people are thought to have lived simply in small fortified villages, usually on hilltops. Although the concept of an urban center wasn’t developed until the Roman period, various larger fortifications which also served as regional market centers were numerous. Yet, in general, despite Greek colonization in such areas as Byzantium, Apollonia and other cities, the Thracians avoided urban life.
The first Greek colonies in Thrace were founded in the 8th century BC.
Sure sounds like a lot of Celts… but there just isn’t enough information to know. But they did have Redheads…
Several Thracian graves or tombstones have the name Rufus inscribed on them, meaning “redhead” – a common name given to people with red hair. Ancient Greek artwork often depicts Thracians as redheads. Rhesus of Thrace, a mythological Thracian King, derived his name because of his red hair and is depicted on Greek pottery as having red hair and beard. Ancient Greek writers also described the Thracians as red haired. A fragment by the Greek poet Xenophanes describes the Thracians as blue-eyed and red haired:
…Men make gods in their own image; those of the Ethiopians are black and snub-nosed, those of the Thracians have blue eyes and red hair.
Bacchylides described Theseus as wearing a hat with red hair, which classicists believe was Thracian in origin. Other ancient writers who described the hair of the Thracians as red include Hecataeus of Miletus, Galen, Clement of Alexandria, and Julius Firmicus Maternus.
So I’m left to wonder if those mid-Continental Celts who settled in Thrace found it rather a lot like home…
At any rate, even that isn’t deterministic. There are genetic markers from some Thracian graves rather like other Greeks and there are random redheads scattered all over. At best it can hint, not answer directly. (But I note in passing that Spartacus was a Thracian… NEVER get a redhead pissed at you…)
Spartacus was a Thracian enslaved by the Romans, who led a large slave uprising in Southern Italy in 73–71 BC. Before being defeated, his army of escaped gladiators and slaves defeated several Roman legions in what is known as the Third Servile War.
Then their relatives might end up taking over the place.
From the list of famous Thracians:
Maximinus Thrax, Roman Emperor from 235 to 238.
Justin I, Eastern Roman Emperor and founder of the Justinian Dynasty.
Justinian the Great, Eastern Roman Emperor.
Leo I the Thracian, Eastern Roman emperor from 457 to 474.
That sure SOUNDS like Celts. Bring ‘em in as slaves and pretty soon they’re running the whole show…
From that earlier link:
Some of the survivors of the Greek campaign, led by Comontoris (one of Brennus’ generals) settled in Thrace, founding a short-lived city-state named Tyle. Another group of Gauls, who split off from Brennus’ army in 281, were transported over to Asia Minor by Nicomedes I to help him defeat his brother and secure the throne of Bithynia. They eventually settled in the region that came to be named after them as Galatia. They were defeated by Antiochus I, and as a result, they were confined to barren highlands in the center of Anatolia.
Celtic groups were still the preeminent political units in the northern Balkans from the fourth to the 1st century BC. The Boii controlled most of northern Pannonia during the 2nd century BC, and are also mentioned to have occupied the territory of modern Slovakia. We learn of other tribes inhabiting Pannonia, belonging to the Boian confederation. There were the Taurisci in the upper Sava valley, west of Sisak, as well as the Anarti, Osi and Cotini in the Carpathian basin. In the lower Sava valley, the Scordisci wielded much power over their neighbours for over a century.
OK, so now we know why the folks in the Balkans are always cranky and fighting… you can blame it on a Celtic influence ;-)
But the main ‘takeaway’ here is that there were A LOT of Celts running all over the middle of Europe then. A huge chunk of Europe has some “Celtic Roots” even if today they are speaking Italian, Greek, and even Slovakian…
Thrace is that bit just before you cross over into Turkey from Greece…
The historical boundaries of Thrace have varied. Noteworthy is the fact that, at an early date, the ancient Greeks employed the term “Thrace” to refer to all of the territory which lay north of Thessaly inhabited by the Thracians, a region which “had no definite boundaries” and to which other regions (like Macedonia and even Scythia) were added. In one ancient Greek source, the very Earth is divided into “Asia, Libya, Europa and Thracia”. As the knowledge of world geography of the Greeks broadened, the term came to be more restricted in its application: Thrace designated the lands bordered by the Danube on the north, by the Euxine Sea (Black Sea) on the east, by northern Macedonia in the south and by the Illyrian lands (i.e. Illyria) to the west. This largely coincided with the Thracian Odrysian kingdom, whose borders varied in time.
So way back when, saying you were from Thrace could also mean Scythia, at least to a Greek without a lot of travel time…
If you remember our last tour of Celtic exploits, we found that the ancient Tocharians way out toward China had a lot in common with the Celts and speculated on a possible relationship. So here we have Scythia stretching from about the area of the mid-European Celts over toward the Tocharians… Hmmm…
The Scythian state reached its greatest extent in the 4th century BC during the reign of Ateas. Isocrates believed that Scythians, and also Thracians and Persians, are “the most able to power, and are the peoples with the greatest might.” In the 4th century BC, under king Ateas, the tribune structure of the state was eliminated, and the ruling power became more centralized. The later sources do not mention three basileuses any more. Strabo tells that Ateas ruled over majority of the North Pontic barbarians.
Written sources tell that expansion of the Scythian state before the 4th century BC was mainly to the west. In this respect Ateas continued the policy of his predecessors in the 5th century BC. During western expansion, Ateas fought the Triballi. A part of Thracians was subjugated and levied with severe duties. During the 90-year life of Ateas, the Scythians settled firmly in Thrace and became an important factor in political games in the Balkans. At the same time, both the nomadic and agricultural Scythian populations increased along the Dniester. A war with the Bosporian Kingdom increased Scythian pressure on the Greek cities along the North Pontic littoral.
Materials from the site near Kamianka-Dniprovska, purportedly the capital of the Ateas’ state, show that metallurgists were free members of the society, even if burdened with imposed obligations. The metallurgy was the most advanced and the only distinct craft speciality among the Scythians.
Well, the Scythians were prone to subjugating lots of folks, so we don’t know who all was living in Scythia and which ethnicity did what. BUT, it is pretty well known that Celtic metalwork is some of the most advance on the planet for it’s time. These folks are occupying some of the same lands (though the timing of overlap is a bit hard to assess) and doing some of the same things. Add to that even a tiny bit of imprecision about ‘when’ and exactly ‘who’ and you get folks from the same place being from Thrace, Scythia, Greeks, or being Celts. I’m not seeing much difficulty in reconciling the various claims about “ethnicity” simply because they are actually claims about geography, not ethnicity.
The Scythians first appeared in the historical record in the 8th century BC. Herodotus reported three contradictory versions as to the origins of the Scythians, but placed greatest faith in this version:
There is also another different story, now to be related, in which I am more inclined to put faith than in any other. It is that the wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae, but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria.
Subsequently, the term Scythian, like Cimmerian, was used to refer to a variety of groups from the Black Sea to southern Siberia and central Asia. “They were not a specific people”, but rather variety of peoples “referred to at variety of times in history, and in several places, none of which was their original homeland” The Bible includes a single reference to Scythians in Colossians 3:11, immediately after mentioning barbarian, possibly as an extreme example of a barbarian.
So a fairly sloppy term, applied in a sloppier way. Basically “Barbarian nomad from somewhere up North to North East” out past Thrace (or sometimes incorporated into it). I don’t see that as excluding a mainland Celtic tribe that wandered through from “Up North”… Even today we are not sure. Some folks thinking them nearly Asiatic, then we dig up a blond guy:
Given that declared eastern origin, some scholars, before the 20th century, assumed that the Scythians were descended from the Turkic/Mongolic people. The Scythian community did inhabit western Mongolia in the 5th and 6th centuries, but were not Mongolian. The mummy of a Scythian warrior, which is believed to be about 2,500 years old, was a 30-to-40 year-old man with blond hair, and was found in the Altai, Mongolia
In addition, we find they shared something else with Celts. They liked their women to go armed and ready for battle:
Some Scythian-Sarmatian cultures may have given rise to Greek stories of Amazons. Graves of armed females have been found in southern Ukraine and Russia. David Anthony notes, “About 20% of Scythian-Sarmatian “warrior graves” on the lower Don and lower Volga contained females dressed for battle as if they were men, a style that may have inspired the Greek tales about the Amazons.
At any rate, we can’t tell if there was a Celtic tribe mixed in with all the non-Celtic types, or if these were simply parallel cultural evolutions, or even if it is just that nobody really knew who was running around “out there” in the wilderness. Or even if it was just a catchall name with no real specificity.
What we can say is that there is nothing at all to prevent a Celtic Warrior Prince of some sort from being called a “Scythian”, a “Thracian” or even being “From Greece”.
All in all, I just don’t see anything to prevent the recorded “story” from being true. Where things can be ‘fact checked’, they seem to match the known facts. There are no visible ‘show stoppers’.
The language shows clear signs of mixed heritage. The genetics allows for a mixed heritage. We’ve got Celts consorting with Pharaohs (and maybe being them) down in Egypt. We’ve got them running around positively everywhere. Picking up a Hamitic / Semitic speaking wife and heading off to Spain just doesn’t seem like that much of a ‘leap’. Then the kids model their speech on her speech patterns and pick up Dad’s words later. Voilà! Gaelic.
So it looks to me like it’s most likely true.
Of course, everyone needs a wet blanket or two. The wiki does nicely:
Early history of the Gaels
A pseudo-Biblical account of the origin of the Gaels as the descendants of the Scythian prince Fénius Farsaid, one of seventy-two chieftains who built the Tower of Babel. His grandson Goídel Glas, whose mother is Scota, daughter of a Pharaoh of Egypt, creates the Irish language from the original seventy-two languages that arose at the time of the dispersal of the nations. His descendants, the Gaels, undergo a series of trials and tribulations that are clearly modelled on those with which the Israelites are tried in the Old Testament. They flourish in Egypt at the time of Moses and leave during the Exodus; they wander the world for four hundred and forty years before eventually settling in the Iberian Peninsula. There, Goídel’s descendant Breogán founds a city called Brigantia, and builds a tower from the top of which his son Íth glimpses Ireland. Brigantia can probably be identified with A Coruña, north-west Galicia, known as Brigantium in Roman times; A Roman lighthouse there known as the Tower of Hercules has been claimed to have been built on the site of Breogán’s tower.
They need to be careful with that “pseudo” stuff or someone might have to go all Spartacus on that page… ;-)
Notes and Backing Material
But back at the history / mythology of Ireland:
This one has a geneology of what is supposed to be the linage starting from Noah:
This site has a much more detailed “Kings List” and a whole lot of links at the bottom of the page, including some to ancient books now on line at Irish University: ” three of the volumes of the ANNALS OF THE FOUR MASTERS are now online at University College of Cork (UCC).” so worth scrolling down to the bottom.
The wiki on the Annals Of The Four Masters:
has links at the bottom that claim to go to the originals and to English translations.
This next one is a bit “odd” in is a self claimed “big internet dig” ‘list of other pages':
Presented a nice page in a strange kind of a ‘pop up’ format. So I’m going to copy more of it here than I otherwise might (as I don’t know if it will give the same text in the future…)
TRALEE, Queen Scotia and Slieve Mish, Scota. Mountain Grave. An Irish Big Dig
THE IRISH BIG DIG
for Scota. Queen Scotia.
The Big Web Dig
for Irish Pre-History Tribal Origins
Scota as ancestor of the Milesians, see http://homepage.eircom.net/~kthomas/history/History3.htm
This is our Web Dig, to find the origins and attributes of Queen Scotia, Scota, Sgota. There is a grave with that identification-indications of name, as she was buried in antiquity and with Egyptian hieroglyphs, they say, as befits the Pharaoh’s daughter that she apparently was. This is near Tralee, at the Slieve Mish Mountains, the range in the central area at the beginning of the Dingle Peninsula, western Ireland. Our interest then moves to other sources supporting the idea of this lady and her people peopling Ireland, at Plain Meaning, Origin Stories.
Scholars and regular folk are interested. See this large site, and track the Milesian connection alleged, http://homepage.eircom.net/~kthomas/history.htm, a site also for vetting Scota tales. Scota, Scotia.
1. For a quick look at a folk-literature summary of the Scots connection, and information at those sites, see Caledonia, Queen Scotia, and Scotland. Queen Scotia’s husband had been killed while fighting Ireland’s famed Tuatha de Denaan, and Scotia, a warrior herself, led the troops against the Tuatha-de herself, with her sons, and prevailed. See her as a figurehead on a 19th Century Scots brig that was shipwrecked off Cornwall, The Caledonia. No wild woman, that. Fair use thumbnail from http://www.panoramio.com.
We want to know Scota’s origins, her place in prehistory.
She and her husband and their group fought (both were warriors) the old Tuath de Denaan of prehistory; was there a connection between their heritage, and /or the mysterious Tuath-de, that tie into migrations from the ancient Middle East. As an individual Queen: We want to know her accomplishments. There are numerous tales, with variations, and we track some of those. What commonalities.
Was she merely a King’s wife, in the same kind of patriarchal system that smothers us, and the mother of six sons who went on to rule Ireland; who was an accomplished horsewoman who died trying to leap a stream-bank while pregnant on her horse and falling off. And so she died. See ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotia%27s_Grave/
If that is all there is, why do we find references to her and her Milesian people, that tie her people from ancient Palestine and the Old Testament (yes!) and a tribe of Hebrews (not “Jews” at that time) who migrated through Egypt (perhaps) to Spain (Iberia – Eber- Hebrew) and from there to Ireland, Hibernia. The “Scotti” of Ireland (roots of Scotia?) went to Scotland, gave it their name, and the groups went back and forth for millennia.
Sources include: “The histories of England, Wales, and Scotland, even Ireland also, were intertwined in ancient times such that the whole British Isles, due to the proximity of the islands, then shared a common British history, with common elements in the population of the islands, until the time of the Roman conquest of a large part of Britain ….” See the account at The British Chronicles Book 1, by David Hughes, 2007 ://www.heritagebooks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HBI&Product_Code=H3301&Category_Code/ at page 43. As to Picts: ” …Credne is remembered in Irish tradition as the leader of the migration of the majority of the Irish Picts from Ireland to Scotland (emphasis added) during the Gaelic Conquest of Ireland, whence their name.” See page 46. See portions at the google book http://books.google.com/books?id=QnDtohOe8-QC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+british+chronicles&source=bl&ots=NSFqWyDkJF&sig=ok0FHDQf_-QgbNiinuc-BUemEGY&hl=en&ei=PeWbS6qbGoP48Aal9v2UDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false/.
So, were Picts in Ireland first (having come from the Orkneys and Hebrides or some such earlier) and did they fight Scota’s group as Scota & Co. invaded; and then the pressured Picts headed (some) to Scotland; and then so did the Scotti or Scotii; and who was the Tuatha de Denaan that we understand that Scotia and group fought. The Picts?
What support is there for a migration route from the eastern Mediterranean to Ireland through Spain, and were they one of the Hebrew tribes; or counted instead (or in addition) from descendants of (here goes) Noah. A medieval source, Nennius 8th Century (look up Medieval Sourcebook), ties in groups from Spain to Ireland, and matches the moving groups with Old Testament timing – see FN 1 (open source).
2, For those of us new to this, it is confusing. Who? Which? Either? If the stories are irreconcilable, fine. Look at place names for history. This is ongoing – the Isle of Man, between the Irish Sea and Solway Firth, Scotland, and north England, would be a natural stop-off for people going back and forth and even arriving. There is a small wiry dark group there, with legends about them having Spanish origins, see ://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/pn1925/rn.htm/ Spanish origins, and even Middle Eastern before that, interest us here. Dating of legends is difficult. Was this merely the Spanish Armada shipwrecking in 1588? Scroll down to Kione Spainey, or Spanish Head – Spain was once visible from this spot, so it says.
If nothing is determinable, it is interesting, and we lay out what we have found here. We did find a discussion page with long dissertations on the tribes at ://www.flickr.com/photos/celtico/2924466222/ and a map of Irish Celtic tribes. Is Celtic different from the differing migrations we read about? Is Scotia considered Celtic? How could that be? That site also finds, at a post by a mysteryinternetchatsource (like us) “mikescottnz”, two Scotias, each with a different history-connection to Ireland. We read and tried to make sense of it, and came up with four Scotas, each of whom is fine and to be remembered: Hello? Mike Scott in New Zealand, is that you? What did we get wrong?
3. The various Scotas so far.
Scota One: Scythian prince Fenius Farsaid, is her father-in-law. In a “pseudo-Biblical” account, a “Christianized myth” perhaps with Irish monastic glosses (Nennius?) she is an Egyptian princess, daughter of Nectanebus (there was Nectanebus I and Nectanebus II), married Mil. Mil would be the son of Fenius Farsaid. Their son is Goidal Glas and he devises the Irish language from the 72 that arose “from the dispersal of the nations”(?) Goidal Glas’ descendants are the Gaels and they wander for centuries (so clearly Scota One never got to Ireland to be buried) and finally settle in Iberia. Further descendant Breogan founds city Brigantia and builds tower. This may be at Coruna, NW Galicia. their sons
Scota Two: From early Irish chronicle, the Lebor Gabala (Book of Invasions, Book of Conqests). Scota is an Egytian princess, daughter of Cingris (name only in legend). Princess Scota. She married Niul, a son of Fenius Farsaid who was a Babylonian who traveled to Scythia after the Tower of Babel collapsed (more Christian glosses?).Niul was a “linguistic scholar” and the Pharaoh invited him and gave him Scota to marry. They had the son, Goidal Glas, who did the Irish language. The Israelites leave Egypt, and so must Goidal. His descendants settle in Iberia, where Mil Espaine was born. Two of his sons, Eber Finn and Eremon settle Ireland.
And Scota Three? The Story of the Irish Race, by Seumas McManus: Scota married Niul, but Niul is the grandson of Goidal Glas.
In the alternative, do we have Scota Four? Scota is the Egyptian princess who married Miled or Miletius. Queen Scota. He died, she went to Ireland with her 8 sons and their fams, big storm and many died, and Scota died fighting the Tuatha de Denaan. And so to Glenn Scoithinn, Vale of the Little Flower, and Scotia, perhaps.
4. For earlier origins back to the Middle East, and then in Spain, see Zaragoza: Zahar of the Red Hand. Look for the Scythians, language links to the Phoenician, Hebrew borrowing from the Phoenician word forms, and so on.
And Zahar himself. This part is not in the usual Chronicles, apparently, and that is understandable because in time it was not desirable to have a Hebrew background, is that so?
5. A Hebrew Speculative Connection, to be Woven In, Perhaps. Eighth Century Chronicler Nennius and the Rest: Prepare to Amend
Zahar was the grandson of Jacob, famed in Genesis by being identified as the firstborn of twins, thus entitled to the birthright, and the midwife tied a red cord around his wrist to identify him; but then he pulled his arm back in (precocious, but unwise for the inheritance) and his brother was fully born first, and got it all. See Genesis. Zahar, left out, left. His own Odyssey.
Is Zahar’s line a lost tribe of Israel, and is this their story. Great fun.
5.1 Origins as Gaelic or Scythian. Naming carries clues.
The traditional name for the grave area, a diminutive “Little Flower” is shown by the name of the area of the alleged gravesite, near Tralee, at Glen Scoithin (the Flower part) or Foley’s Glen.
To some, the Scoithin argues for her Gaelic origins, Scoithin as a synonym for traditional women’s Gaelic names, Flora or Rosa. To others, the Scoithin ties with the Scythian woman, as she is also known. Wikipedia at Scotia’s Grave adds that Scoithin information, that we had not had before.
However, there are far more possibilities, even though those do not help the Gaelic pride line, and do show many even more links to Scythian. See page 46 at ://books.google.com/books?id=QnDtohOe8-QC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+British+Chronicles&source=bl&ots=NSFqVByjJH&sig=LLTKIPeMlIiQUfRPO5OfTanqDCw&hl=en&ei=4r-aS4-mLsP48AaHluSWDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Identity and lineage.
5.2 The Red Hand took hold in Ireland in various ways, and not necessarily directly connected to Zahar.
There is also the Red Hand of Ulster, that we looked at in American politics — the use of the red hand in political advertising, to rally political supporters. See Red Hand, “Family”, JPMorgan Chase, Code. Scroll down to the Ulster section. A modern exploitation of the red hand, a diminution of a core symbol for Ireland, with its pros and cons, uses in violence. A trivializing of The Red Hand to use it in America.
Ui Niall was a Milesian, as was Scotia. If the Milesians were Hebrew by extraction, then the red hand has a double meaning – Ulster and the Old Testament. And if it became unfashionable as centuries passed, to be known as Hebrews, then the red hand idea could move easily from Story 1, about the birth of Zahar and his descendants wandering; to Story 2, update when Ui Niall hacks his off and hurls it to the beach in time to claim the Ulster coast. But if Ui Niall himself is a descendant of the wandering tribe, we are back at square one, and happily so.
FN 1 Medieval Sourcebook, Nennis -Historia Brittonum, 8th Century, at :// http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/nennius-full.html/. Note the main introduction, that this early source relies on oral and other traditions. This is not entirely to be discounted, however, see the modern The British Chronicles, Heritage Books, by David Hughes (2007) (incorporation of this and similar source material but with discussion and choices)
Meet Nennius and his account:
11. AEneas reigned over the Latins three years; Ascanius thirty-three years; after whom Silvius reigned twelve yeaars, and Posthumus thirty-nine years: the latter, from whom the kings of Alba are called Silvan, was brother to Brutus, who governed Britain at the time Eli the high-priest judged Israel, and when the Ark of the covenant was taken by a foreign people. But Posthumus his brother reigned among the Latins.
12. After an interval of not less than eight hundred years, came the Picts, and occupied the Orkney Islands: whence they laid waste many regions, and seized those on the left hand side of Britain, where they still remain, keeping possession of a third part of Britain to this day.
13. Long after this, the Scots arrived in Ireland from Spain (emphasis added) The first that came was Partholomus, with a thousand men and women, these increased to four thousand; but a mortality coming suddenly upon them, they all perished in one week. The second was Nimech, the son of …..who, according to report, after having his ships shattered, arrived at a port in Ireland, and continuing there several years, returned at length with his followers to Spain. After these came three sons of a Spanish soldier with thirty ships, each of which contained thirty wives; and having remained there during the space of a year, there appeared to them, in the middle of the sea, a tower of glass, the summit of which seemed covered with men, to whom they often spoke, but received no answer. At length they determined to besiege the tower; and after a year’s preparation, advanced towards it, with the whole number of their ships, and all the women, one ship only excepted, which had been wrecked, and in which were thirty men, and as many women; but when all had disembarked on the shore which surrounded the tower, the sea opened and swallowed them up. Ireland, however, was peopled, to the present period, from the family remaining in the vessel which was wrecked. Afterwards, others came from Spain, and possessed themselves of various parts of Britain.
Egyptian Princess become Queen. Milesian King. A group arriving in Spain, and the Queen leading the band after the death of the king from there to Ireland?
Not out of the question after all. Ancient Carthage and ancient Egypt were great empires before Rome, and took over Spain as well as the Mediterranean coastal areas, and tips of other places. Travel was not unusual, and would have been facilitated by the conquests. From Spain to Ireland: short sail. See legends from the time of the Flood, through the Old Testament, at After the Flood: Irish Biblical Roots and Egypt.