Notes On PCC Pistol Caliber Carbines

I’ve been thinking about getting a Pistol Caliber Carbine for a while now. Well, really, getting ANOTHER PCC. Some years back I had a Marlin semi-auto in .45 ACP (and matching Colt 1911 pattern pistol). Both have now gone on to the son. Loved the 1911, but the Marlin, while a very nice gun to handle and shoot, had an issue I just can’t abide. It would have jams regularly. Maybe one in 20 rounds? Might it have settled down with a few hundred rounds through it? Could I have searched through a dozen brands of ammunition to find one it liked? Perhaps. But IMHO a good gun just works. Out of the box it ought to work, and after 20,000 rounds it ought to work.

I have a Marlin “lever gun” in .357 Magnum and just love it. Completely reliable. Takes any ammunition and just works. Using .38 Specials in a DCM shoot with iron sights, qualified at 100 yards. Now has a scope on it. Matched to a Ruger .357 revolver.

But I want a PCC that shoots 9 mm. I have a couple of 9 mm pistols, but all tend to be things where the magazine does not work in any PCC. A “Cheep Norinco Chinese” patterned after an old Browning. Shoots great, but not widely used in the West. An old German WWII Era design (made post war). A CZ 75.

So magazine compatibility is not high on my list of needs as I’d have to buy a new 9mm pistol for that. Glock magazines are widely used, but I just find Glock to be a bullet dispensing appliance with a Tupperware feel. Works 100% of the time (in my test run), easy to shoot, hits the target nicely… but just no soul… It doesn’t speak to me. A Sig runs over $1000. Don’t care for S&W guns. The Ruger just seems like a Me Too gun and I know little about it. Then the Beretta 92 I like, except it is very big and heavy and the grip seems big to me; plus it is no longer the US Military choice.

All just to have magazine compatibility in combat that I’m almost certain is a 100% never going to happen event? My interests are more toward “EOTWAWKI Survival Events”. Maybe, at most, a home invasion event a few weeks into an AwShit. Or hunting some animal or other after a few months. Things unlikely to take a magazine swap. Frankly, things I can already do with my Marlin lever gun. So this is more an itch to scratch than a necessity.

I’m pretty sure the Aero Survival Rifle is the one I will get. We’ll come back to that after looking at what I’m probably not getting.

First up, this unusual rig. It is a conversion “top” that goes on a 1911 Pattern pistol and makes it into a rifle. A very interesting design. But it has 2 issues for me. First off, it isn’t 9mm (though one may be in the works). It is in .460 Rowland. I first saw this round mentioned when looking at the Aero Rifle as one of the choices. Knowing nothing about it, I looked at the cartridge description. Despite the .460 designation, it is the same as the .45 ACP. Basically a heavy duty .45 ACP that’s 1/16 inch longer. The claim is that it can also shoot .45 ACP just fine.

But .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth per the spec. Essentially, you are headspacing on the extractor if put into a 1/16″ longer chamber, but yes it can work. That does not endear me to the adapter. Then the $2 / round cost for .460 Rowland ammunition makes that a rare thing I’d ever shoot. Finally, I no longer have a 1911 lower… But it IS a way cool idea. Since the butt stock is integrated with the barrel, there is no risk of crossing the ATF on issues like “short barreled rifle” and similar abuses.

IF I still had a 1911, I’d likely get one, but with a proper .45 ACP chamber if they make one. It uses AR-14 style stock, and has lots of rail attachment points in front.

https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/mech-tech-carbine-upper-for-1911-pistols/386447

The .460 Rowland story is here:

https://460rowland.com/

An intriguing cartridge that gives you a .45 like round with .44 Magnum punch. I’d definitely get one if I lived in Bear Country anywhere, or had the occasional moose or Wild Siberian Hybrid Boar to deal with. So Alaska, Canada, Rockies or Texas to Arkansas. Not seeing the need in my sleepy suburban cul-du-sac..

So back at 9mm. I also would not mind being able to shoot .40 S&W (police compatibility AND I have a pistol in .40 S&W due to California Stupid. Mandating a 10 round magazine limit just told me to “go up caliber” and buy a bigger bullet…) Turns out the Aero Survival Rifle can be bought with multiple barrels in different calibers. I already have that in my Sig that is .40 S&W / .357 Sig and the Norinco that is 9mm / 7.62 Tokarev, and I like it.

I looked at the S&W gun.

https://www.guns.com/news/2023/02/28/new-smith-wesson-9mm-m-and-p-fpc-folding-carbine

Something about it just seems inelegant. Folds sideways. Lots of Picatinny Rail on top of what is a kind of uncomfortable forward grip area. Just feels kind of clunky to me. Then compatible with pistol magazines for a pistol I don’t want. And about $660, so not too expensive but not cheep either… Then I moved on.

I looked at the Keltech offering, the Sub 2000
https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearm/rifles/sub2000/

The knock on them was that the folding up meant no optics could stay on the top, so now the revised model lets the barrel rotate to the side a bit when folding, fixing that. I’m not real fond of the minimal butt stock and the no-sights included. I could likely live with that as I intend a red dot or Laser on it. It is VERY light weight and reports are it works well. Charging handle under the tube to the rear seems a big clunky and potential for things to catch on it, but folks say it isn’t an issue. Relatively low cost. It was in the running for my primary choice. Hard to argue with small light and compact. As I’m almost certainly going to just buy some Glock Magazines for whatever I get, it takes them.

I really like the classic look of the basic Ruger 9mm PCC.

https://ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/models.html

It is a take down model, so packs I small spaces. One model even has a stock where you can stow the front part in the stock. But at almost $800 and weighing in at 6.8 lbs, it’s a bit expensive and heavy. I like the included sights, and that the rear site is a bit far away on the rear of the barrel. Older eyes are having trouble focusing on close up rear sights these days. They do make a Tacti-cool model or two but I don’t need all that stuff and don’t intend to hang a half dozen things off my gun.

So it is in the running, but back in the pack somewhere…

At present, I’m lusting after the Aero Survival Rifle. It has the cool and useful feature (for me anyway) of interchangeable calibers. So I can do ONE ATF clearance for one gun, and then buy a new “kit” if I start lusting after some other caliber. Like that .460 Rowland at about 1000 ft-lbs. I’d likely start out with a 9mm / .40 S&W set, or with a .357 Sig bbl. That would match most of what I have. There is a .22 lr kit for it too.
https://www.tnwfirearms.com/

Very light weight. Can get a “3 way kit” of different calibers, and add more later if you want. No metal sights (bit of a bummer) but a rail for an optical sight. One can attach different shrouds on the front, or a front pistol grip. Basic rifle is $600 at present, so about the same as others. The ability to swap parts around and make it the gun you want has an appeal to the guy who can’t decide before buying ;-)

They also make a pistol version that I’m not so interested in.
They used to include a 4 power scope that is no longer included.

Then is just looks more clean and cool without all the Tacti-cool M-Lock guards on it..

Note that the .460 Rowland is a relatively new addition and they have not put it on the SPEC page yet.

Barrel length: US 16.25” Canada 18.75”

Barrel Twist: 9mm 1:10, .40 S&W 1:16, .45ACP 1:16, 10mm 1:16, .357SIG 1:10, .22LR 1:16 (6 Land Barrels)
Overall length: US 33.0″ Canada 35.5″

Overall length (Collapsed Stock): US 29.5” Canada 32.0”
Breakdown dimensions with barrel removed: US 17.25”
Available calibers: 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, 10mm, .357SIG, or .22LR
Magazine configuration: Glock pistol style
Left or right handed ejection
Weight: 5.5 lbs
Coating: Hard Anodized
Action: Semi-automatic, direct blow back
Safety: Sliding safety and integrated child trigger lock
Optional three-day pack sold separately
Performance: 9mm Wolf ammo, 1,270 FPS
Includes:
One Glock Style magazine
Upper and lower rails

Also relevant: made of aircraft aluminum
*Accessories on the ASR and ASP may vary in style and specs. This includes stocks, pistol grips and buffer tubes. Scope no longer included.

ASR is Aero Survival Rifle and ASP is Aero Survival Pistol.

The 3 caliber package is a big pricey at $1400. OTOH, that runs out to $466 per “gun” – you just can’t shoot them all at the same time ;-)

So I’m thinking that for my use case, the Aero Survival Rifle is likely the best fit. It meets my need for “looks clean”. GLOCK Magazines are all over the place and is almost a standard in several guns now, so OK. Add a scope or other optic and I’ve got very usable sighting system. 9mm meets my immediate need (aka desires ;-) and I can add any of .40 S&W, .357 Sig, .22 lr, and maybe even that .460 Rowland if some day I have the urge to spread bacon grease on my pants and walk in the woods in bear country ;-)

So that’s were I’m at at the moment. Lusting after the Aero Survival Rifle, thinking the Ruger is a pretty good looking gun (and has sights built in), and the reminding myself that the Keltech is likely all I need in a smaller, less complicated, and cheaper package.

Decisions decisions…

End Note:

I left of the Beretta PCC because I don’t own a Beretta 9mm, and it would just be sooo expensive to buy their rifle and a model 92… The folks who have the Storm want about $800 but you can get that down to about $700 at the places that don’t have any… Then add the cost of a Beretta 92…

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/products/beretta-cx4-storm/