The Serf On Soros

The link to this was posted in one of the general comment threads. I’d opened it, but it’s a bit long, so I didn’t get a chance to read it until now. (Nights when you can’t sleep can be very useful ;-) It was time well spent.

Beththeserf does a very complete, yet brief, review of the underpinnings of the social reformations proposed by Plato, Hegel, Marx, and now Soros as Soros mutates Popper into an unrecognizable form. At one point I’d discovered this series of connections and made a complaint posting about it. Beth has done a much more scholarly and thoughtful job of it.

This will be more of a watercolor pastel sketch of a “Dig Here!” than anything with profound in detail conclusions.

Where I did a “watercolor pastel sketch” Beth has made a full bodied picture.

The first half is a history of thought review. Stepping through Plato, to Hegel, to Marx. Showing how each is similar, yet different, in their Central Authority advocacy. Then a short review of Popper and his scientific approach with distributed incremental improvement.

Down toward the bottom 1/3 or so, Soros gets examined. He is shown to be much more in line with Plato, Hegel, and Marx than with anything Popper advocated. A destructive Central Authority type, but with a penchant for funding tribes of Spoiled Brats to destroy what he does not like. (i.e. Antifa & friends).

Here’s a couple of sample paragraphs to give you the feel of it:

‘Open Society,’ says George Soros, ‘stands for freedom, democracy, rule of law, human rights, social justice and social responsibility as a universal idea.’ ( O.S. Soros. 2000, p 120.) …Sounds good, doesn’t it, ‘freedom,’ ‘democracy,’ ‘rule of law,’ etcetera, etcetera, but somewhere along the way, Karl Popper’s Open Society seems to have undergone a sea-change into something stranger, interesting to compare the two versions, Popper Mark I and Soros Mark II.

Popper wrote his book during the dark days of Hitler’s rise to power and early days of the Second World War when it looked like Hitler’s attempt at world dominance might succeed. He wrote ‘Open Society’ as a response to these events, a felt need to critically examine totalitarianism in its various guises and to defend the values of open, democratic society that were being threatened. The various guises Popper examines in ‘Open Society’ are doctrines of historical necessity and human destiny expounded by Plato, Hegel and Marx, Plato formulating an ideal republic based on his theory of forms, Hegel combating liberalism in the authoritarian state of Prussia’s King Frederic William III, and Karl Marx in industrial England, arguing inexorable laws of social development and class war.

Then down near the bottom:

Combine programs supporting drug legalization, (a leading recipient of Soros, drug legalization campaign is to the Drug Policy Alliance, and anti police, action by Rise-Up.Org connections,) and you’re making big dents in a functioning civil society. More than a few dents if you attack the society’s economic productivity via environmental organizations demonizing CO2 to create energy poverty. On the top 150 donor list of the open Society Foundation and Tides Foundation are organizations promoting radical environmentalism, opposing mining and logging enterprises, opposing commercial fishing, and demonizing CO2 to prevent that ‘modeled’ human-caused global warming, ‘necessitating’ costly subsidies of intermittent technologies to replace fossil fuels. Number 5 on OSF top grantee list is The Alliance for Climate Protection, number 55 on the list is Earth Island Institute, and here’s Earth Justice, don’t you just love the name, coming in at number 121.


A lot of difference between the Open Societies of Karl Popper and George Soros. The above manifesto and network funding is what Soros makes of Popper’s open society ‘having faith in human reason and avoiding dogmatism.’ Did Soros, perhaps, use Popper as his sock-puppet-Socrates?Soros would get rid of western democracy with its productivity and freedom of the individual under rule of law for all. Ultimately, what he is promoting is his vision of a supra-state, global governance at a distance by unelected Brussels men, lots of controls on what we may say, and keep the citizens diverted with politics of gender and racial diversity in-fighting,

It does look like some “bit rot” has set in on links. There’s a reference to a photo and a video at the end that do not show up. (Either that, or my advertising blocker and DNS blocker have blocked their site of origin). Not enough to matter as there is a written description of the image.

Overall, a very well done exposition of how Soros came to be, and what he is doing to disrupt the world. It does not matter if Soros is lying, confused, or genuinely evil. He is the vampire squid with tentacles spread over the globe causing / funding massive street theatre demonstrations and working to collapse Nation States. All the shouting about “Russian Meddling” in elections ought to be directed at Soros and his massive disruption operations. If anyone has “meddled” in national politics (of many many nations) it is Soros and his ilk / spawn. But that’s just my opinion… I could be wrong… (channeling Dennis Miller a bit ;-)

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
This entry was posted in History, Human Interest, Political Current Events, World Economics and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

100 Responses to The Serf On Soros

  1. p.g.sharrow says:

    And I thought, I was the only one that woke, very early and could not sleep! Now it is day light and time to start my days activities. Must plan in a nap this afternoon while it is HOT!
    Read Beth’s paper, well worth the effort. The more I read of these Sociologists philosophies the more I’m certain of their insanity. I can see why the city fathers of Athens wanted to do away with Socrates. He was destroying the usefulness of their young people with his arguments…pg

  2. beththeserf says:

    E.M. so appreciate yer review.
    Best regards from a serf.

  3. beththeserfb says:

    Been up late, listening to Gordon Lightfoot. :)

  4. E.M.Smith says:


    I have “wandering sleep cycles”. Usually when I’m awake, the Moon is directly overhead to slightly on the setting side (or, I suspect, the exact opposite side of the Earth from that point). It may be that several generations of sailors (Mums side) selected for folks who were awake at high tide ;-) Or maybe even further back where being awake with the full moon meant good hunting… Not 100%, but very very often. Especially after a long run of not sleeping like on a coast to coast run. The “refilling the sleep hump” afterwards has me sleeping a lot at odd times and then the free run nature of both gets me out of sync with the general time zone… So now it’s almost 10 AM and I’m just waking upt (again) from when I finally fell asleep about 5 AM (again) after waking up about 2 AM after going to bed about 10 PM after… Have not checked the Lunar position on this one as “Saki was involved” ;-) (Friday. Sushi. Saki. Old B&W Movies… )


    Like the musical choice ;-)

    And the analysis … ;-)

  5. H.R. says:

    @Beth: Thank you! Nicely summarized with sufficient detail in one well written package. That was one link well worth clicking.👍👍

    Soros is not wrong, just evil (to turn around an old phrase).

    *Glasses raised* May his efforts go down in flames. *Glasses clink*
    @E.M.: “Usually when I’m awake, the Moon is directly overhead to slightly on the setting side (or, I suspect, the exact opposite side of the Earth from that point).”

    So… we should start referring to you as ‘Moondoggie?’ 😜

  6. serioso says:

    Why am I not surprised? All the world wants to talk about possible treason, but the Chief prefers talking about Soros. ‘Nuf said!

  7. E.M.Smith says:

    Thus we see the Serioso Smack…
    Wanting to not piss off 1/2 of the global nuclear power is “treason”…

    Who fomented “Color Revolutions” that overthrew legitimate governments? Trump or Soros?

    Who funds and instigates “Fling Poo!” groups like Antifa? Trump or Soros?

    Who is actively engaged in attempts to destroy the Nation State? Trump or Soros?

    Who funds groups to destroy industrial production like coal and steel via “carbon” laws? Trump or Soros?

    Golly, Soros.

    What has Trump done?

    a) Told people what he would do to Make America Great Again.

    b) Got elected.’cause We The People wanted him.

    c) Proceeded to keep those promises.

    d) Results? Record high employment and low unemployment. Thriving economy. Halting the money suck into absolutely stupid black holes like Paris Agreement and UN boondoggle commissions. Told NATO to pony up Their Fair Share (that the agreed to pay). Kicked China in the knees and said “Stop raping our economy or be prepared to go to the mat” (so at last someone is doing something to stop the $Trillions of trade abuse). Gotten Russia to think maybe we are not their enemy and not someone to nuke. Industries getting back on their feet (like coal and manufacturing and oil & gas). Unburdening We The People and our companies of some of the horrendous burden of stupid regulations. Getting the military back in shape after Obama screwed them over.

    Yeah, “Oh, the horrors!” /sarc;


    Moondoggie? A surfer who gets involved with Gidget? Um, my wife might object…

  8. beththeserfb says:

    Say, serioso, one is a witch hunt, the other, a documented attempt at
    treasonous interference with democratic elections. Herewith an example.

  9. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh, and Serioso, you have once again made the very wrong leap to “my motivation” when I stated right up front what it was. I had a link open for some weeks from long ago. I was awake late at night, and finally got a chance to read it. Found it a good read.

    That’s ALL.

    No big plan on my part to dodge talking about Trump.

    No big plan to do a Soros “hit piece”.

    No big idea to “talk about Soros”. (i.e. it was not that I wanted to “talk about Soros”).

    Just exactly what i said it was. Finally read the link and found it good. THAT is my motivation. Saying “Hey folks, this is well done”.

    Had it been crap, I’d have said nothing. Were it about Trump, and a good well done piece, I’d have said so. And were it a crappy article about Trump I’d also have said nothing. I read a dozen crap pages a day and say nothing about them (from all sides). When something is well done, I like to point it out.

    I had read 3 or 4 other pages that night but none of them were very impressive. Had one of them been more impressive this article would have been about them.

    So please, try to learn just this one thing (that we’ve been over a dozen times before):


    You never get my “motivation” right. You always comment with some degree of bile and emotional overloading. That all comes from YOU not from ME.

    You are the only person who can choose your emotional state. Please don’t attribute your emotional state, nor your nature, onto me. It will never be right. 90%+ of the time my emotional state is “OFF” or “VERY BLAND”. I’m just not an emotive kind of guy. I’ve learned to “punch up my language” so folks stop calling me things like “flat” and a “dead fish”. But that doesn’t mean I’m feeling all tense about Trump or all angry at Soros. I just observe who did what and report it. Soros does evil things. Trump is fixing the crap in our Government and shutting down international exploitation of us. Those are just facts to me. So far there’s zero evidence for anything treasonous from Trump (Hillary & the Obama Holdovers, however, have racked up a few dozens of treason charges near as I can tell. Just her illegal email server is a few in and of itself. Uranium One and kickbacks a few more. It’s a long long list.)

    I don’t bother harping on all the Hillary Treason just because it’s already well covered elsewhere.

    That, BTW, IS one of my major motivations. If something is already being beat to death, I generally see no reason for a “me too” posting on the same topic. ANY topic. So you don’t see me posting details of what Soros has funded lately as other folks do that well. The connection to history back to Hegel and Plato for Soros World View, however, is not covered much nor all that well. So worth looking at.

    Similarly, with 100% of the domestic media doing a “Get Trump!” piece (or a half dozen of them) every single night; I’m completely uninterested in writing an article about them at the moment. (Pro or con). Every so often if one of them does something truly brain dead and in some way interesting / funny, sure, I can see an article to point that out. But Yet Another “Russia Collusion” story? BOTH sides have over done it (but with the YSM going truly Trump Derangement Syndrome over it). So yeah, count me out. Just too boring and jaded.

    Frankly, I found it much more interesting that Melania and Putin can have a polite conversation without interpreters. I’d love to know for sure if it was in German.

    I also find it interesting to look at just how bat shit crazy folks go over Crimea and yet never bother to mention that it WAS Russia up until Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine (perhaps extra-legally). I’d love to see an in depth study of the historical swings of Crimea and just how much of the people there see themselves as Russian vs Ukrainian. What does the MSM give us? Crickets on that, and a load of “Russia EVIL!!!” without the backing material to make their case. So I find Crimea not so interesting (as not enough known) but the crazy way it is portrayed is interesting (as it comes from a short historical view and lots of political spin). Then there’s the just the way the whole Soros approved Orange Revolution was carried out. It is entirely ignored that the Orange Revolution likely prompted Russia to protect the ethnic Russians in Crimea.

    Now I’ve not done an article on that as I just don’t know the details enough (and don’t really care enough about Ukraine anyway). BUT: It’s pretty darned clear that the Hillary / Obama / Soros connected “side” wanted it, and thought it was going to give them Ukraine in their Globalist EU Camp. Then got a swat down by Putin. Chopped off the Russian sections to protect “his people” (from the Russian POV). I’d love to see an article exploring that, but the MSM does nothing but scream about Putin and “fling poo”. Hardly interesting. IF I cared more I’d do the work and write the article. But I just don’t. Ukraine and Russia will sort out their own issues, and without me. It’ a family feud inside the Slavic family anyway, and I learned long ago not to stick my nose into a family fight.

    So you see, my motivation is far more about “what is quality” and “what is novel” and “what is interesting” and pretty much not at all about “what is the hot topic du jour?”. Nor is it any particular desire to “cover Soros” ( I much prefer things like battery chemistry – see my comments on Ni-Fe Edison cell in the Tips thread:

    Want to know what gets me worked up and involved? Things like how to make a novel form of the Edison Cell on a DIY basis in your kitchen using silicone and sugar! Now THAT’S interesting! (and fun).

  10. jim2 says:

    If I had to pick a best buddy and my choices were Putin or Soros, I’d just shoot myself.

  11. ossqss says:

    So its treason now? Where did the collusion meme go? Oh, nothing burgers perhaps?
    I have followed the Ferguson, Baltimore, occupy whatever, and on and on influence from Soro’s via back door non-profits for years. IIRC, many tax records clarified/verified such.

    I find it quite amazing that many today root for what is worst for them through influence of others and not educate themselves via facts. Borgesque really. We live in an ever increasing society of lazy, selfish weakness.

    There are few young Minutemen/women in today’s world. Most would cower in their safeplace with their puppy, or comfort doll, and mocha latte when faced with adversity on any scale, but I digress……

  12. philjourdan says:

    @EM – seriously (not serioso), just ban him, He is playing the part of a troll to the hilt. Whenever you have a thread, he tries to change the subject and in the process tries to insult everyone. He has nothing of material to add to the discussion, and seeks only flames and to disrupt a fruitful discussion.

    You can find bots on the internet that can post better attempts. He is not worth the time or space to rebut. Now I will try to read Beth’s column so that I can participate in what looks like a very good topic.

  13. E.M.Smith says:


    I think he genuinely believes what he says, as wrong as it may be (especially when he attributes emotion or motivation to me where he’s wildly off the mark).

    Given that, and given that he keeps me in practice dealing with “the other side”, I find some benefit from the “fencing”.

    So far I’ve only “banned” SPAM a few word, and one very obnoxious person. I’m not real keen on the idea of my second banned person… I’d rather think he can be redeemed (despite the complete lack of evidence…) I’ll be happy IF I can just get him to address TOPICS and not ME (since he is so spectacularly wrong about me, and I’m not relevant to posts anyway. The words just are. I am but a conduit. That whole Buddhist empty vessel thing…)

    Oh Well. It’s a useful irritant I guess…

  14. philjourdan says:

    My house was built in the 70s. About 4 years ago, I was told by 3 different electricians (one of them my cousin) that the breaker box. a Federal Pacific, was crap (my cousin had to go to the other side of the city to find a replacement breaker for it). My cousin told me it would cost about $2500 to replace it, but he was not going to do it (he was Appliance repair). So I got a couple of quotes and then asked a friend for a recommendation for someone to replace it. He asked why did not I ask his SIL. I told him I did not realize he was in the biz.

    The quotes I got were for $2700, $1900 and then his SIL who told me he would do it for $1k, or $1100 if I wanted to do it by county code (get it inspected and do all the paperwork). As I trusted my friend (he maintained the electrical for the DC for where I worked), and $100 was chicken feed given the other quotes, I told him I wanted it “legal”. The only problem was that it would take place in mid July (but then I was getting the quotes in June). So I consulted with my wife and she did the Jane Jetson on me on the day it was to be replaced and spent it in the local Malls.

    After he finished, we got the county inspector out to check it out. A man of very few words. Or actually just one. “perfect,Perfect Perfect”. One of the best investments I have ever made!

    So what does that have to do with this? Same thing. I read Beth’s article (just wish I had done so earlier) and being a man of a few words, all I can say is “Perfect. Perfect, Perfect”.

    A long read but well worth the time! While I have known what Soros is trying to do, I was shocked at his duplicity!

  15. philjourdan says:

    @EM – I abhor banning people for opposing viewpoints. But his is not even opposing! He is constantly trying to change the subject because he cannot discuss the subject at hand! I guess his gratuitous insults are a way to hone your skills, but trolls are not opposing viewpoints, They are non sequiturs! And that is serioso.

  16. E.M.Smith says:


    Thus, the article saying “Go read this, it’s good!”. ;-)

    I also drink Tequila since I find it stimulating in a regret it the next day kind of way … maybe I have a slight masochism problem ;-)

  17. Jeff says:

    Just a little word analysis, the handle “Serioso” contains the word “Soros”, plus the letters “e” and “i”. “ei” is egg in German or Yiddish, perhaps denoting source or generation; reversed, ie is a Latin abbreviation (id est) often translated as “that is”…..

    Gyorgi Schwartz fancies himself as a saviour. Trouble is (for him, at least), WE already have a Saviour, so Gyorgi’s working for the wrong boss…..

    Reminds me of the old joke:
    Q: What’s the difference between GOD and Larry Ellison?
    A: GOD knows he isn’t Larry Ellison…..
    Just replace L.E. with G.S.

  18. E.M.Smith says:


    I’d observed the similarity (but not gone to the numerology / substitution cipher route). Absent any other evidence it would just all be speculation, so I choose to put my speculation elsewhere. “What is, is.” and my opinion of it or even knowledge of it changes nothing about it. So I just accept what is as what is.

  19. ossqss says:

    Guys/Gals , don’t overlook the fact that bloggers/bots are actually paid to promote/dispute blog topics. I verified it happening in its infancy at WU, on climate topics, 10+ years ago. It was a real job for some, more so now days. Occupy blogs maybe? Just sayin, more emphasis on Twitter and FB in todays world, but when faced with some sensitive items, it draws them out through a sniffing algorithm.

    Your over a sensitive target when you draw the flack EM!

  20. E.M.Smith says:


    That’s why I have my strict “No insults to the person” rule and why I keep a corral around “flame wars”. Why I keep forcing it back to The Topic.

    I’ve been dealing with Trolls and Provocateurs since the Net News days. (early ’80s)

    So my “be polite” requirement is exactly for the purpose of defanging the Troll. Hard to muck rake at a profit when muck raking and insulting is forbidden and only results in a bit of virtual B&D in the Moderation Room …

    Besides, I’d not be happy with life in an echo chamber. My skills would get rusty and I’d forget to counter attack the insult process and instead react to the insult….

    The bigger challenge today is that the Bots are pretty good and easy to program as Trolls. For that reason I’m selective on letting first comments through if they are Bot-Trollish. Stop’s them at the gate. Eventually the A.I. Bots will get good enough to be sneaky and get through the white list process. Then most discussion / comment processes will die and we’ll be left with strict identification of participants (already CAPTCHA is approaching a limit where humans are having trouble getting past it while some bots do succeed. Next iteration bots will make it and people won’t.) A hard “white list” with rapid banning on suspicion of bot or troll will result. Not looking forward to that day. I’ll likely go to an IP based screening where I look up each IP address and only if from certain blocks accept it (i.e. ‘comcast at home’ or ‘verizon’, but not some whole continents or commercial address blocks. Basically scratch those ISPs that sell to bots operators.)

    But I’m pretty sure Serioso is just an “enthusiast” for his side / POV. I’m also pretty sure I was “assigned” a few professional trolls back when I was doing a lot of graphs of temperatures and showing how the data were manipulated for effect. WUWT had a cycle of them that iMHO was some Eco-professor assigning students to “do battle” with the “evil deniers”. Seemed the id’s changed just about at semester changes… So is Serioso part of that process, but the last hanger on? Don’t know. Don’t really care. He’s learned to generally stay away from the hard core insult to the person. Mostly by just not saying much. I have hope he can learn to make it about a TOPIC and not about ME. Still working on that one.

    Yes, it’s a Troll Tool to attack the person. It’s a key part of the Alinsky Method to “make it personal” and attack a person. So that tactic must be forbidden and counter attacked any time it shows up. This chaffs those trained to do that, and really galls those who do it for the emotional hit of being abusive. I’m fine with that. Not my problem.

    All kept at a minimum by two rules: No insults “to the person” and “be polite”. Then a sub-rule / nudge of “speak to a Topic”…

  21. ossqss says:

    I admire and support your efforts EM. I also find great knowledge and insparation from most of those that post here. It is appreciated more than is obvious.

    I participate on several sites. The level of anti-whatever, has increased significantly over the years. That anti-whatever comes from a small list of participants, and still does.

    I recall live online audio discussion’s in 2007 with Meff Jasters (intentional) on climate communication in Denver over a 2 week period, on how they were going to change how things were conveyed to the public. Raising the alarm was the theme, through all outlets possible. It did not matter if it was fact or fiction, it was to be pushed out, and it started afterward in full force.

    I cannot prove it, but would bet Soros had a hand in the Denver conference back then to support the initial 1992 Maurice Strong initiated push for global energy control. Even live people can act like Bot’s when programed, no?

    Most folks dismiss the BLA Bla bla agenda 21 thing, until they do some math.

    Some sites for your use if ya like. – search for his detailed write ups on it.

    You could actually read the UN document for yourself also. Yep, all that hype is real…. just sayin…. ya think Soros is in there somewhere? Ya think?

    It simply appears to me that the meek (few), have taken over the last couple decades policy (and media) direction while every one else enjoyed the technological advancements and ignored the influence on their existence. If the Meek inherit the Earth thing happens fully as said, it is not going to go well. They are not leaders.

    But, I digress once again on mobile ;-)

    That was a hard thing to post and will probably have errors, dangit!

    I demand better coding for voice to text! and free ice cream!

  22. E.M.Smith says:

    I am categorically against Free Ice Cream!

    (Unless it is chocolate, and maybe Rocky Road, or Pralines & Cream… ;-)

  23. Simon Derricutt says:

    pg – Fred Alzofon worked with cyclotrons and high-energy physics, amongst other things. His explanations of his Unified Field Theory show that a lot of other equations (such as Schrödinger, Dirac, Maxwell) dropout of the overall equation, and thus he’s really taken the whole of standard physics and added a couple of twists in order to bring it all together. It’s still a description of what it does rather than what it is, but seems to me a bit closer to reality than your description. As far as I can tell, he spent almost all his waking time over more than 60 years working on it, and was also somewhat of a genius in an Aspy way. I don’t have the maths to understand his equations properly, so I look at what happens and in that your descriptions are often the same. Sever the connection to the outside universe and then gravity and inertia disappear. We’ll just have to see if it works.

  24. Simon Derricutt says:

    EM – sorry, I put that on the wrong string by accident. Looking at the email copy while filling in the reply on the other pane. Should be on Tips and Notices July 2018.

  25. Jeff says:

    Another site that has both “green dreams” and “everyone into cities” (like the various agenda do) is , aka the World Economic Forum, who meet in Davos every year (and usually, by some hocus-pocus, it snows even when it’s been relatively dry… They are a group of high-ranking business, political, and other leaders, and the documentation they spew is interesting at the very least, terrifying at the worst. They’re right up there with the Bilderbergs and the Bohemians, in fact, the groups tend to share many members…

    Wierd Al has a great song for those who love Rock-n-Roll, erm, Rocky Road (Cameo of Dr. Demento at the cash register, too) . The cone dispenser is reminiscent of the one at Colonel Lee’s Mongolian BBQ in Mountain View for those folks from the area….. song is from 1983, so “Early Al”, but he seems to never age. Maybe it’s the ice cream :)

  26. serioso says:

    Mr. Smith, the most puzzling thing about your responses to my brief comment is that you attribute my remark to a reflection on your emotional state. Not at all true. I have no interest in that at all. I am, however, curious as to your intellectual motivation, as you seem to be an otherwise intelligent fellow. But when it come to politics your interests are very strange. If there is anything you don’t like about the current US administration, I must have missed it. The whole world is talking about Trump, just not you. Naturally, I wonder why. Your response mentions all the good things you think Trump is responsible for but none of the bad. I simply ask why. And, from long experience reading your blog, I am not surprised by what I see as your failure to engage.

  27. DonM says:

    All the world wants to talk about possible treason….
    The whole world is talking about Trump ….

    Out of 7 billion people, I would guess that less than 500 million actually gave more that a wavering thought to trump over the last day. Out of those 500 million I would guess that 90 percent would not have given trump a thought had they not be subjected to the predominate 24 hour rants.

    Less than 2% of the “whole world” lets/wants things like “Trump is treasonous” to control how they feel, and how they are going to live their day, and how they are going to their lives.

    Serioso, if you are getting paid … good job, keep it up. If you feel you need to be in the same club as the “whole world” to make yourself feel better … that is sad … take a break from the delusion … you don’t really don’t need to be part of the gang.

  28. gallopingcamel says:

    It took me a while to read beth’s paper…….really impressive.

    I feel somewhat humbled that beththeserf sometimes says nice things about my comments. They are not in the same league as hers!

  29. ossqss says:

    Ha! The whole world does not matter to the equation a business man is making for his constituents. Cut off every dime of US aid globally, and watch what happens. Queue up REM!

  30. ossqss says:

    If interested, quite a good show on how much the world needed/needs the US.

  31. E.M.Smith says:


    Your first comment was entirely about me and my motivations, phrased in a way to goad emotional behaviours or from an emotional POV.

    “Why am I not surprised? All the world wants to talk about possible treason, but the Chief prefers talking about Soros. ‘Nuf said!”

    ‘Surprise’ – an emotional state. Bald assertion about “all the world” and “treason” when clearly lots of us don’t see any (by Trump, lots by Hillary – but I’m leaping to the conclusion you don’t want us talking about HER Treason…). Then ME and my “preferences” – so all about ME and emotional desires. Ending with a kurt slam of “Nuf said!” intended to ramp up the emotional lever of the prior statements. BTW, this simply must be kept in the context of your prior comments and inquiry about ME and what I like (emotional state) and don’t like (emotional state) and other such. You do not come to a comment without your prior baggage.

    All a light weight snide Trollish Emotion Play. IF you didn’t intend it that way, you need to work on your language skills.

    Then, after I’ve completely explained my motivations (my “preferences”), you turn a deaf ear to all that and come back with more of the same ilk:

    Mr. Smith, the most puzzling thing about your responses to my brief comment is that you attribute my remark to a reflection on your emotional state. Not at all true. I have no interest in that at all. I am, however, curious as to your intellectual motivation, as you seem to be an otherwise intelligent fellow. But when it come to politics your interests are very strange. If there is anything you don’t like about the current US administration, I must have missed it. The whole world is talking about Trump, just not you. Naturally, I wonder why. Your response mentions all the good things you think Trump is responsible for but none of the bad. I simply ask why. And, from long experience reading your blog, I am not surprised by what I see as your failure to engage.

    Again focus of your comment is NOT on the article or topic, but on ME. You are either pathologically unable to grasp the point that it ISN’T ABOUT ME or are deliberately game playing. Neither one is good for your case.

    Then you wander into a question of my “intellectual motivation” when I’ve already explained it fully. I’ll repeat as you are clearly a poor reader so can’t find it on your own:

    I saw a link on a prior topic from Beth, and clicked it. Looked interesting as it was about the path from Plato to Hegel and on. No time to read it so left the link open. Some many days (weeks?) later could not sleep. Figured it was a good time to catch up on low priority link reading. Read several (every so often I must close out tabs or the browser hangs). Beth had a good one, so I pointed that out in a short posting. Nothing more than “Good posting, worth reading”. THAT’S IT.

    Got it? (If not, re-read the preceding paragraph again and again until you do.)

    I’m glad you find me “otherwise intelligent”, but don’t need your assessment. I’m Mensa qualified, have 99.9% Kuder Aptitude tests in everything but “clerical” – that was 86% – and know my GMAT scores were very very high ( Wharton solicited ME…) So no, your assessment is kind of pointless. Now I also happen to know that those scores don’t mean much in the real world. I’ve known folks with poor scores who were incredible at things I can’t do ( painting, dance, sculpting, horse training, piloting, etc. etc.) and I’ve known folks with higher scores than mine who were nearly incompetent for real life things (Ph.D. Physics who had ‘relationship’ issues and could not tune up his car despite repeatedly trying to grasp it). My point? Your comment is irrelevant as both your assessment of ME is irrelevant and I.Q. / Test scores are an incredibly narrow metric on humanity.

    Then again, you are on about ME some more when it IS NOT ABOUT ME. Got it yet? My ~”interests about politics are very strange”. That is because you are viewing ME though a Political Lens and that is just the wrong way to do it. First IT ISN’T ABOUT ME and second I’m NOT POLITICAL. The only “me” in the article is that I could not sleep so caught up on low priority reading. Then found a good article (my assessment). That’s about article quality, not about me nor about politics. I’ve similarly posted about good articles on battery chemistry. And good movies. My personal interest in Politics is NIL. I just don’t care and don’t like the field. However, I’m forced to recognize the existence of it due to it being shoved down my throat 24 x 7 by the Media and due to the Democrats making just about everything Political and due to folks like Soros using Political means to destroy cultures and countries, including my own. So entirely of necessity, I’ve had to “wake up and smell the (political) coffee”.

    Now, as to my PRIORITY not matching what you think it ought to be: There is one VERY simple metric, already mentioned, that you also continue to ignore. I’ve said it dozens of times. I seek NOVELTY. I get rapidly bored with REPEATED CRAP. So when “everyone else is talking about” just about anything, I’m already bored silly about it and could not stand to write an article about it. WHATEVER IT IS, political or not. It’s part of the curse of a very good memory. I also hate watching re-runs on the same movie over and over. Waste of time as I’ve already got it in my head if I want to review it again. (Movies age out about 10 years after first viewing and then can be of interest again, even if the first 10 minutes I remember the plot and key scenes… ) So if “everyone is talking about Hillary Email and her Treason” I’m good for like one article and the follow-on comment thread. After that, if there’s nothing new, why post about it?

    One exception: Things that incrementally improve and where the first story is just a part of the whole. Now it tickles the Aspe need for completion. More bits get added until the picture is complete. Hillary has a bogus private email server. Post. It was hacked by Guicifer. Post. It was likely also hacked by Russia and China. Post. FBI gives her a free pass on it when everyone else would be in prison. WTF? POST! An incrementally growing story gets installments. But once the image is clear what’s going on, I lose interest. That, BTW, is why you have not seen reams of postings from me on Fraudulent Temperature and Drought manufactured data products. We already know that process & cycle. (I’d make a lousy propagandist as the repetition would drive me nuts). So I just can’t quite get up the motivation to do a lot more time consuming data analysis when we already know it was corrupted for political ends. It’s irrelevant and it isn’t a question of “the science” or “the data” as they were just political tools. So I moved on to looking at the politics. Not due to any interest, but due to it being where the real “rest of the picture” sits.

    As to your attempt to steer this into a critique of the Current Administration:

    Given that that is 4 walled 24 x 7 x 365.25 x dozens of stations, I find it incredibly over done, boring as hell, and not very interesting. But, just so you can sleep; things I don’t like:

    1) Trump, like Bill Clinton did, ought to have fired wholesale the DOJ members once he had clue they were all on the Democrat team and against him.

    2) Trump ought to have someone “proof” and perhaps suggest some moderation in his tweets. ( I could be wrong on this. His political sense and trap-baiting skills far exceed mine and he seems to be getting what he wants from it – ‘splody heads.)

    3) He need to be canceling some departments wholesale. Just go down the list of things every president since Nixon created, and can them. Dept. of Energy. Dept. of Education. Dept. of Ag. etc. etc. States can handle that stuff. Similarly FBI needs pruning by about 95% in duties.

    4) Stop arguing with the EU over NATO. Pack up about 1/2 the troops and material and bring them home. Fund it at the same 1.8% of GDP that Germany funds. They’ll figure it out…

    5) Cut ALL funding for ALL subsidy, grant giving, and “foreign aid” (AKA bribery). The Constitution does not say it is our job to fix the world nor corrupt foreign governments. While he’s at it, issue an executive order than NO NGO can indulge in political activity. IF churches can lose non-profit status for that, so can NGOs.

    6) I really do think he ought to have a few dozen folks already arrested and in jail by now from the folks running the Russia Did It smear campaign, and I’m not sure why he hasn’t busted Antifa as a RICO racket. He ought to move faster on locking up the Swamp Creatures.

    In short, he’s being a bit slower and more timid about pruning the monster that is the Federal Government than I think is best.

    But, despite that, most of what he has done, I agree with.

    In particular, Russia.

    I, for one, think it is a very very bad and very very stupid thing to go out of your way to annoy and insult a country with 1/2 the nuclear weapons of the world. Maybe it’s just a ME thing, but I’d rather talk with folks, politely, than treat them to abuse in public. Especially when they are heavily armed.

    Is that enough for you to satisfy your pseudo-armchair-psych-profile efforts? Can you get past ME now and look at TOPICS? (I’m really really bored with needing to tell you this same stuff over and over again.)

    But, again: The REASON I don’t talk much about Trump (though I have but you must have missed it – or just can’t remember anything positive about him) is precisely BECAUSE “The whole world is talking about him”. Repetition is BORING. (Do remember I said I liked him early in the primaries before he was a “somebody” in the standings. Do remember I’ve posted many article about him and his actions: ) Or is it only saying BAD things about Trump that you remember or care about? Eh?

    Oh, and per my “failure to engage” do you mean my writing 10 to 20 times as much in my responses to you than you put in your jabs? Is that “failure to engage”? Or is it failure to take the bait that you don’t like? Or that I proceed directly to looking at the Troll Tactics and Alinsky “make it personal” and don’t indulge in a Political Mud Pie contest over Trump that bothers you? Eh?

    Just to be clear on my position on Trump:

    I like him. I like him a lot. I admire what he is doing. I think he is doing a very good job. I wish he was doing more of it and faster, but there are reality constraints. He’s better than I am at this kind of shit-fight, so I’m willing to just wait and see. I am surprised that Hillary & Crew are not (yet) in jail, and that is a bit of a disappointment, but I’m patient. If it takes to his 2nd term, I guess I could live with that.

    My biggest Bother about Trump? He often speaks in sentence fragments and without enough specific nouns. I suspect this is to be deliberately vague for strategic reasons, but his tendency to say things like “It has been this way for some number of years and ….” drives me a bit around the bend. My Dad did the same thing. He was off 2 more thoughts ahead by the time his mouth finished the first part of a sentence and verbalizing just could not keep up with his brain. So I understand it. And I understand that my annoyance at it IS about ME and my frustration at my Dad speaking in sentence fragments and expecting me to fill in all the blanks as they were obvious.

    So, hopefully, this encyclopedic response to your curiosity about ME will be enough “engagement” and we can get back to TOPICS. Please.

  32. E.M.Smith says:

    @Don M:

    Well put. BTW, I think we can measure the degree to which “The whole world” wants to dis Trump by the incredibly plunging viewership of CNN and MSNBC. They now have an audience share that is about 2/3 of one modest town in California. San Jose OR Sacramento (NOT both and not including the extended burubs and other small towns around them).

    IMHO “the whole world” Serioso is talking about are the approximately 1 Million people who make up the entire audience / echo chamber of the NTY, MSNBC & CNN. Essentially the DNC members, employees of said media, and their families and friends, plus the Democrat Machine members and their family and friends.

    The rest of us have a life to lead and things to do. ( I found it much more important to fix the valve cover leak in my car, and then today, to rotate the tires, than to watch that news… or think about Trump in any way. And I don’t even have a day job!) My spouse, daughter, and son simply do not watch the news at all. They just don’t find anything in it relevant to their lives (and my spouse just says it’s all dismal and complaining anyway, so watches “positive things”). My Florida Friend doesn’t watch news, he’d rather watch a ball game. His spouse only wants to watch old movies. They don’t care at all about what Trump does on any given day. (One likes him, the other doesn’t – but not based on much real.)

    While I was at their place in Florida, far more attention was put on the Weather, when we could BBQ, and who drank all the beer. (No kidding… I had to make another beer run… )

    I didn’t mention it in my long detailed reply to Serioso; but just the fact that he DOES think lots of folks give a damn one way or the other about Trump says he’s out of touch with real people. Real people care about dinner tonight, party on the week end, bills end of the month, who won the game (or increasingly the World Cup – even though I don’t care about soccer I spent more time on the World Cup than on Trump while it was running…) and what car they like; and spend little time on anything about the POTUS.

    Heck, I care more about Lou’s Blues and that spot of beach I found in Florida than I do about what Trump did today. Politicians come and politicians go, but a good beach bar with live entertainment and a dance floor is hard to find!


    Yeah, I’m all for that. It’s mostly bribe money to corrupt other governments or indirect subsidy for US industry sales abroad.

    Just stop all of it and be done. Use the money for inner city trade schools in black neighborhoods and you would get a whole lot more for your money.


    Thus, this article. My entire motivation for it was just the “OMG this is well done” after reading her work.

  33. philjourdan says:

    IF churches can loose non-profit status for that, so can NGOs.

    Actually that law has never been challenged officially (violated often, not prosecuted) and many in the legal community think it is unconstitutional. Alan Dershowitz being one of the more recognizable names.

  34. E.M.Smith says:

    So apply it to NGO with the same reasoning and citing the church example as precedent. Either the church use gets nuked or the NGOs get swatted. Win-win. Knight fork.

  35. philjourdan says:

    NGOs are not mentioned in the First Amendment.

  36. E.M.Smith says:


    And your point is?….

    That NGOs have no rights? That Religion is special? That corporations in general are different from people?

  37. philjourdan says:

    The point is the extracted separation of Church and State. It has gone from Freedom OF Religion to never the twain shall meet. So government restricting religion is against the 1st amendment by virtue of the court rulings. Clearly that law is an infringement on that. Government is trying to tell Religion what it can and cannot say.

    Yes, that clearly is a violation for NGOs, but different basis in the Constitution. So they can rule on one, and not the other.

  38. gallopingcamel says:

    Serioso must be part of the echo chamber that includes the Fake Media and the Far Left. They are throwing everything they have at Trump yet his popularity continues to rise. Trump rates higher than any recent president (other than George Bush following the 9/11 bump) with his party’s registered voters.

    The Fake Media’s failure is driving them to double down on their insanity. They won’t figure out what is going on because they are so disconnected from Real Americans who love what Trump is doing and are begging for MORE!

  39. serioso says:

    You say, over and over, in caps “IT IS NOT ABOUT ME” That’s absurd. It’s your blog. It’s ALL about your interests and predudices, assuming, like most of us, you have both.. WHY in heaven’s name do you say otherwise? Of all the things I don’t understand about this blog, that contradiction stands out and is number one. Why pretend it’s not about you? Clearly this blog is all about you and your interests and obsessions; If I comment on why you choose particular topics you cry ” it’s not about me!” IT IS ABOUT YOU! PERIOD! Why say otherwise?

    I do enjoy jousting with you, and I respect your attempts to rebuke me. I do wish you would learn the pleasures of concision.

  40. beththeserfb says:

    serioso, sigh, oh so seriously subjective.

  41. serioso says:

    Not that I expect any of Mr. Smith’s followers (including me!) to do due diligence, but here’s a commentary on George Soros that is actually fair and balanced. But, for the record, here goes:

    It’s good reading.

  42. gallopingcamel says:

    George Soros and the ACLU have a knack for being on the wrong side of every issue.

  43. gallopingcamel says:

    My last comment was for Serioso who thinks we are too dumb to know what concision means.

  44. Alexander k says:

    EM, I really like Beth’s stuff. I would not have across this piece if you had not run it, so thanks.
    And I agree with those who reckon Serioso is nothing more than a troll who deserves banning even if you don’t want to do that.

  45. E.M.Smith says:

    You say:
    “IT IS ABOUT YOU! PERIOD! Why say otherwise?”

    Thus you confirm that it is your inability to get past that point that repeatedly has you barking up the wrong tree.

    Why say otherwise? Buddhism. “Be the empty vessel”.

    To enjoy the flower be the empty vessel and see the flower.

    To be of “no mind” is to be at peace.

    To say “Here is the flower” is not to project yourself into the flower. Nor is it to make the flower a painting nor a poem.

    When I say “Here is the flower”, it is not me that is the flower.

    I said “Here is a flower written by Beth”. That is about the flower and Beth. It can not be about me.

    You search for me in the places I am not. You are doomed to failure.
    (As evidenced by your multiple years of puzzlement about me and my motivations.)

    The only correct answer is MU! (Whack with a stick…)

    I do enjoy jousting with you, and I respect your attempts to rebuke me. I do wish you would learn the pleasures of concision.

    Pick one: “Failure to engage” or “need more concision”. You have claimed both, so one is a lie.

    I do not rebuke you. You rebuke yourself by your failure to catch clue when it is shoved into your hands. MU! moments by the ton. I see why the rattan stick is applied now…

    Per the NYT article: I’ve already read it. Ran across it while looking up something else. (Color revolutions? Ukraine?) It’s a nice Ra-Ra piece for their emotional and intellectual spiritual leader. Not much new information in it, and highly left progressive globalist biased, but did enjoy the thought that Soros sees it all slipping away from his grasp.

    Oh, and back on your prior comment about “obsessions”: I have very very few of those. Let me think if I can come up with one…

    Nope. Sorry. Came up with a list of a dozen or so things I’ve had fixations on at times in the past. Pretty much all of them have been “let go” after a while. Hard to call it an obsession when it’s something where I’ve just walked away. A blond in 5th grade. A Chinese girl in high school. Math from then to college (still good at it, no longer find it compelling). Computers in late college to a couple of decades ago – now just something I’m really good at but could just forget and not care. Guns for about 20 years. Now I’ve gotten rid of most of them. Cars & Motorcycles for a decade or two. Now working down the fleet to minimal. “Preparedness” was important when the family depended on me. Now it’s just another thing that needs to be done. I had a go at multiple languages until about 30 years back. Now not so much. Haven’t even been able to get myself to listen to my Latin tapes. Nope, I’m pretty much settling into a jaded, tepid interest level old age.

    I can still get worked up a bit about injustices and frauds perpetrated on the world. I’m not all that keen on letting big lies pass unnoticed. Can’t say those are obsessions as much as strongly felt duties to truth and justice. Old habits. I suppose that’s about as close to an obsession as I still have. Interested in discovering the fraudsters and Evil Bastards of the world who are screwing it up for their own gain. Figuring out how they do it, and then pointing it out. But even that is more like a “one day a week” thing.

    Mostly I’m in that “exiting things” stage of life. Closing down the garden and figuring out what to do with my seed bank. Going through my old equipment and hobby boxes and getting rid of things. Time to thin the library too. Planning for my time in an RV and then the inevitable “small room with health monitors”… no need to leave the sorting out to someone else.

    So you see, Serioso, that is the reason you fail to understand me. You are certain there are things there, that are not there, and you fiercely search for them. Spending all your time under the streetlight looking for the keys… that are not under the street light.

    So, some clues for you. I’ve said all these things before, but you refuse to let them past your blinders.

    1) I am NASA certified sane, balanced, and a Nice Guy. I’ve had batteries of psych tests and hours with a shrink to get selected for the program that set the psych profile for all the shuttle crews. Looking for “normal human obsessions, failures, and emotionally driven decisions” from someone like that is NEVER EVER going to work. You are asking a Right Stuff guy what he is afraid of, and the answer really is “nothing”. Fear is a hobble, so why have it? You are asking a balanced person where he is unbalanced. You are asking a polymath what is his one strong skill. Want to know my psych profile? Ask NASA. I’m sure it’s published in the Astronaut Selection data somewhere. (Some bits I remember: Augmenter. Low social need strength. Low aggression. Loves challenges. High IQ.)

    2) My basic preference leans to the Buddhist. Many years of martial arts too. “Be the empty vessel” is more than a catch phrase to me. I see the flower and say “See the flower.” and you want to know why I’m all fixated on flowers and what my motivation is and just where is all the ME in the flower – and I am not in the flower, I am the empty vessel that sees the flower and says “See the flower”. The rain does not ask why it falls. The rain does not want to fall, nor does it want to NOT fall. The rain just is. I stand in the rain and say “Feel the rain”. But I am not of the rain, just being with the rain. I just am, too. I have literally had a mans throat in my hand, gripping, and thinking “it would be unpleasant to kill this man, just squeeze enough to make him leave” – and not felt fear, nor hate, nor anger, nor much at all. That is what it means to “Be of no mind” in Karate.

    3) I get bored easily and move on to new things. I have strong “Novelty Seeking Behaviour”. I’m fixated on little; as once I’ve encompassed something, I look for the new. You want to find my “obsessions” when even I do not know what it will be tomorrow (or even IF one will be tomorrow). All I can really say is “I once was ticked by THIS”. But the predictive value is nearly nil. I once was tickled by bugs. And birds. And dinosaurs. And genetics. And chemistry. And photography. And videotape. And lighting. And Star Trek. And space flight. And aviation. And stage (wasn’t good at it…) And music. And languages (ALL of them… hit a wall about 6 of them). And history. And… In the last year or two, and against my basic desires, I’ve had to explore Politics and in particular Soros. I resent the time I’ve had to sink into climate and weather tech. I really do look forward to something after them (but they need the fraud wrung out of them first). What new thing will tickle me tomorrow? Even I don’t know. I’m hoping it will be LENR shown to work, or that slow interest in a DIY Edison Cell; but it might just be a new way to make soup…

    Now i really do hope that is enough to satisfy whatever silly desire it is that you bear like a cross to “get inside my head” and “figure me out”. It isn’t all that hard. You just MUST first let go of your prejudices. The hardest part is to STOP seeing what is not there which you have imagined. Then next hardest part is to understand that which is beyond your ability. Have you spent years in Karate? Have you read for hours on Buddhism? Do you know in your soul what it feels like to “turn fear off as it is not helpful now”? If you have not done those things, you will be hard pressed to understand them. An “above average” I.Q. is unlikely to every fully understand a 99.9% one.

    So I suggest your time is best spent elsewhere than an examination of “ME” from looking at flowers that do not contain me, and using an instrument that can not measure nor understand me. “Reality just is. E.M.Smith” and I just am.

    @Alexander K:

    Thanks! Nice to know someone stopped to smell the roses ;-)

    BTW, I write my responses to Serioso more for others than for him. I figure there’s some folks out there, probably not saying much, who will find some small enlightenment in them, or maybe just come to understand trolls more.

  46. philjourdan says:

    Once again, the troll diverts a discussion from an excellent contributor (Beth) unto himself to distract from the topic at hand. He is playing you EM. And every time you respond, he wins again. Yes, his claims are all BS. Yes, he hasn’t a clue what he is talking about or the subject matter. That is why he is a troll! He posts one tangential comment that is so old news, even the cobwebs have cobwebs and apparently he was the only one who did not read it a week ago when the YSM pushed it for sympathy for the devil!

    Sorry, I have to call them as I see them.

  47. gallopingcamel says:

    While Serioso is our resident troll he does stimulate Chiefio to make some interesting revelations all the way back to fifth grade.

    Roy Spencer’s blog has a resident troll who serves much the same function as Serioso. This is my take on both of them:

    He may be an idiot but he is a “Useful Idiot”.

  48. p.g.sharrow says:

    @phil; from one phil to another. Ignore the troll. This is Mike’s blog and his place to reply. as he wishes.
    For the rest of us “Don’t feed the Troll!” It only encourages them to continue their childish

  49. philjourdan says:

    @pg -(nice to know what the P stands for :-) ) – That is why I do ignore him. I do not even read most of his comments as they are the same old crap, DD. And it is EMs blog. So he is free to do as he wants. I just see it as a waste of his time. But it is his time to waste.

    @GC – Useful is a subjective term. And in this case, I see no use in the troll. What few comments that are on topic he accidently posts are usually old, very low intelligence, and not worth discussing other than feeding trolls.

    Thank you both. I had my morning rant. I will try to refrain from distracting from other discussions when he pops his pointy ears into them.

  50. p.g.sharrow says:

    I have been watching this Soros thing since he came on the scene as a manager of “Eastern European money” during the collapse of the Soviet Union. “Eastern European money” or Communist Party money, and began his rampage to destroy nations and sow misery among their general population to encourage the spread of communism as well as to enrich himself.
    Beth has done the work of categorizing and recording some of the connections of this hydra as well as publishing her work. The WWW is the most wonderful tool to bypass the GEB control over media. The people will win over these mendacious schemers but it will take time to expose them into the general conscious…pg

  51. p.g.sharrow says:

    I read all comments, It is entertaining and sometimes instructive. I find most trolls have the same inane talking points no matter the contents of the thread or blog they are posted on. Even George Soros mouths the same daily talking points in interviews. Makes me wonder if he is a puppet or the Puppet Master. Everyone in the loop seems to follow the same script, using the same words and talking points. The same lies and phony facts all at the same time. Orchestrated by someone or group. …pg

  52. H.R. says:

    p.g. wrote in part: “Makes me wonder if he is a puppet or the Puppet Master.”

    I’ve wondered the same thing and came to the conclusion that he’s a puppet. He’s too visible to be the Puppet Master.

    I believe that President Trump is ultimately going after the Puppet Masters we don’t see, as well as the Evil Bastards we do see.

    1st – Swamp
    2nd – Evil Bastards
    3rd – Puppet Masters
    The only thing I can come up with for the Saudis is that President Trump is convinced that the Saudis can Make Saudi Arabia Great, are a key to Mid-East peace, and if MAGA succeeds we will not worry about keeping S.A. in check. At some point, the Saudi’s oil revenue will plateau and then decline. IIRC, part of President Trump’s visit was about helping them to transition to a more balanced economy in exchange for them helping to throttle down terrorism.

    Now if only the Saudis can come up with some industries that are dependent on sand….

  53. E.M.Smith says:


    Nice to see you “get it”…. My replies are for folks like you, not for Serioso only.


    Yes, the attempt to derail onto a Serioso Talking Point is a distraction, and I do regret the occasional “decoration with graffiti” of a comment thread. But I hope you see the utility I try to put in my replies.

    1) As Serioso constantly tries to make it “about me”, it is really my one chance to talk about “me”. Otherwise I’d have no reason nor desire to make an article about me. I’m just not that important and I already know all about me (so it fails on my Novelty Seeking Behaviour). Perhaps a bit of conceit on my part where I’ve not yet fully stamped out the desires of ego… but hopefully it lets a bit of insight into me for the rest of you. (My interest in Buddhist Teachings for example).

    2) Playing “Thwart a Troll”. Keep the skills up that divert them from their Talking Points and refocus back on “why they are wrong”. Point out the Alinsky approach of “make it personal” whenever possible. Hopefully demonstrate to others the way Trollish Behaviour works. Practice my centered and non-emotive engagement. Kind of like the way the Palace Guards let the tourists flit about them annoying — it demonstrates to others how to ignore the jabs and jibes. Sometimes like the iguana that ignores the annoying cat on cold slow days… until one warm day it gets to eat fresh cat. (Actually happened to someone I know…)

    3) Perhaps, just possibly, put a seed of doubt in their mind about what they believe. Let them see that there is another path through life. One that is not the Troll Game, that is not conflict and hostility, one that sees the game and does not care, or mind, or get sucked into it. One that can use the game for other purposes. (See #1 and the educational value of #2).

    4) Look for information leakage about their operation. Serioso looks to be a loner, so this doesn’t apply quite so much to him; but on larger operations you can get clusters of IP ranges and timing of comments and such that can “out” a team. So, for example, a rotating 3 shift professional operation has three trolls with shift changes. A “class assignment” tends to come from one group of IPs in one geography with “after class” timing. Etc. Spy vs spy requires both spys… But “intelligence gathering” is part of why I do it. Just like Serioso seems to be assigned to find out who I am and do a psych profile on me, I’m busy on the other side. I must admit, I do enjoy a bit of the spy vs spy and miss it now that I’m no longer defending whole corporations.

    5) Enhance my skills and keep up with recent changes of tactics. Serioso has let me down on this one as there’s been nothing new for a couple of years now. I’ve had to go elsewhere for that.

    Now in this latest round I’ve re-confirmed some prior information about me. At this point, it is “ball to Serioso”. I’ve given him my psych profile. He can, in fact, get the whole thing from NASA and I’ve told him how. (For the 2nd or 3rd time… I’ve lost track). So from this point forward, any repeated bleating about “trying to understand me” becomes either garbage or just lazy. It’s lost its value to me going forward. We’ll see what comes next in the game.

    My suspicion is that either as part of a team (NGO sponsored operation or whatever) or as a solo mid-management level operation, Serioso was given the job of gathering enough information about me to be useful in an attack on me. It’s a common Left Progressive behaviour. Find ways to take out the opposition. Profile a person then hand a bio-psych sheet to another operative team that then tries all sorts of entrapment and / or enragement ploys. (See all the shit being done to Trumps Staff, for example). I doubt strongly that I’m really all that interesting to justify years of hanging out just to try to “figure me out”. I’ve been pretty up front about what kind of person I am.

    (In fact, part of what I find fun is that I HAVE stated exactly what interests me and drives me; and that has regularly been rejected. Curious, that. Either a derangement failure on “the other side” who can’t believe honest disclosure was made; or a very dumb ‘strategy’.)

    So part of what I have found useful is just to be me. Relatively centered and usually unflappable. Not slipping into rage, nor having vices that can lead to entrapment. In some ways a personal curiosity about just how much the Buddhist Way really is protective and pleasant. No matter the troll under the Buddhist Bridge to enlightenment…. “The Troll just is” too.

    And with this comment I’m moving to a new level. I’m playing poker with all MY cards face up. Why? Well, the game has gotten boring. It’s novel to play all mine face up and it is an interesting challenge to add back to an otherwise boring situation. Makes it a bit interesting again, for me.

    I’ve now listed all the things I do with these kinds of “off topic” derailment attempts. I’ve pointed out how I use them for my ends. I’ve given Serioso everything he claims to want (how to get a complete understanding of me). Now we wait.

    What’s the end game? Don’t know yet. I do know that this will shift it. Perhaps to show that Serioso is just someone with a fixation that can not be un-fixated and so is just a fool to be banned from lack of positive value. Perhaps to show that Serioso is part of an organized operation, and also no longer of interest. Perhaps something else entirely.

    Oh, and per wasting my time: ATM (At The moment) I’m being lazy. After that marathon 60 hour coast to coast drive and then all the “catching up” that requires (from sleep to those things not done while on the other coast to car maintenance to…) I’ve been having a couple of “lazy days”. Just not energetic nor inspired enough to go on a “Dig Here!” into something with depth. So I’ve not been able to be productive anyway. Frankly, that’s one of the other uses for Serioso. Let’s me feel like I’m posting and commenting and such without needing to do all the work for a real good posting ;-) It’s just much easier to be reactive and “engage” when I’m feeling lazy and un-motivated. Usually, though, it gets me motivated enough to go do more and dig into something. This time not so much. Maybe I need a new Troll for that… (Like that song about needing a new drug… maybe I need a new and more interesting irritant… but not today… today I think I’ll take the dogs for a walk ;-)

    In the Buddhist view of the world, everything has its right place. Even the burr under your saddle…

  54. E.M.Smith says:


    Never forget the Shiia / Sunni divide in the M.E. The Shiia are the ones wanting to bring in the final days fall and destruction of the world that brings the 12th Imam and nirvana. The Sunni are more interested in a good time and wealth… and killing off Shiia.

    So right now Russia is aligned with the Shiia (Iran, Alawite Syria) and the British have traditionally been aligned with the Sunni side (see Dianna and the Prince…)

    This is The Great Game continued.

    So Trump has given Saudi the “go ahead” to clean up some things that bother them, like the Shiia in Yemen and has said we will sell them lots of expensive weapons to do it with. In exchange, the new Saudi Prince cum leader has said he’ll move his society to a more western accepting posture.

    That, IMHO, is the big thing that happened in the M.E.

    Trump has entered The Great Game. Given the House of Saud a “go ahead” and arms supply. Asked for western accommodation (and purchases) in return. Handing off the local heavy lifting to the House of Saud and is looking to have a lot less of our troops in the line of fire.

    Essentially, with the Shiia identified as the major trouble makers and the ones causing most of the terrorism and attacks on Israel; Trump and the EU are siding with Saud and letting them run (where prior we asked them to stay out and we did the shooting).

    Also never forget that it was Britain that put the House of Saud in control in the first place… that whole Lawrence Of Arabia thing… “They’ve met”…

  55. Jon K says:

    Great read and very informative Beth. Reading your section on Corrupting Electoral and Judicial Process got me thinking about another article I read where Soros is funding DA races to get his people in those spots. I can’t help but wonder what his ultimate goals are for throwing so heavily into races that seem to be relatively unimportant on a national, much less a global scale. Could it be cover (ie assurances against aggressive prosecution) for some of his thug activists like antifa to sow discord and drive media narrative?

  56. H.R. says:

    @E.M. : I did forget the Sunni/Shia divide. Thanks for the reminder.

  57. E.M.Smith says:

    @Jon K:

    DAs are the local farm team from which you harvest your future round of major league players. By packing it with ‘his folks’ he gets a much stronger farm team AND blocks the opposition from having a crop to pick from.

    Like domination of the educational system. It’s a first line low level blocking of the opposing views. Big harvests come a generation later.

  58. beththeserfb says:

    jon k, re Soros funding, in justice department, as in education, prepare for
    the future.

    Alliance for Justice, one of Soros’ Open Society Foundation top 50
    funded orgs. Alliance for Justice, known for its activism re appointment
    of federal judges – consistently depicts Republican judicial nominees as

  59. p.g.sharrow says:

    Few people seem to remember. During the collapse of the Soviet Union, G.H.W.Bush spirited Gorbachev and the Communist Party organization out of Russia to prevent a blood bath revolution.
    They set up in San Francisco, California where they operate up to today mainly funding and working with “Conservation Groups” A large network of NGOs and fellow travelers. Funded by Soros organizations. “Eastern European” money managed by George Soros!
    A part of the Lenin rules for communist take over is to seize control of the security agencies and use them to eliminate all opposition. Sound familiar ? The U.S. has always been their prime target. The Obamanation & the Clintons were to be their Victory to win Rule over the Americans. Rule America, rule the World. Exactly the same objective of the Muslim Brotherhood. Obama & Clintons would give control of American Power to them for their Muslim conquest of the world. The Oligarchs also believed they could buy their way into control over the World’s Economy by “Pay For Play” through the Clinton Machine & the Obamanation . A perfect storm, They all believed they could not lose, it was a sure thing. 8 years of Obama followed by 8 of Clinton,. The deck was stacked, The race fixed, It would be Hillary by a mile…………………………..what happened?

    TRUMP! wins? OMG our wonderful New World will be ruined by that Guy. He is not one of our club. He is one of …………………………….. THEM!

    Trump is the Beast that will smash up their carefully ordered china closet. The philosophy of More is done, as was prophesied by Nostradamus 500 years ago…pg

  60. gallopingcamel says:

    “Trump is the Beast that will smash up their carefully ordered china closet.”

    I never believed that Trump could “Drain the Swamp”. How could one man beat back an oligarchy that includes bureaucrats, banks, big business, academia and the “Media”?

    Eighteen months into the Trump presidency it is happening. It is like Napoleon taking control after the horrors of the French revolution and “Making France Great Again”. Hopefully Trump will be an economic conqueror rather than a military one.

    Trump = The Economic Napoleon

  61. beththeserfb says:

    How could one man beat an oligarchy? The open society hangs by a thread…

  62. p.g.sharrow says:

    @Beth you are wrong. We are many and getting stronger. They are few and losing their grip on controlling the flow of information. Their control over the discussion wains, they are losing the argument. You are one of our great warriors. The World Wide Web is your Bow with Arrows that you fling across the world at the speed of light! Because of the modern computer and Internet, anyone across the planet can speak to others, in their own language, in their own country.
    Prophecy says that, “the New age will Dawn with a Net that Covers the World”
    String your bow and loose your arrows, good hunting…pg

  63. p.g.sharrow says:

    @gallopingcamel; The great work of Donald Trump is to break the back of the Dark State and return us to true Constitutional limited government. The written terms of that CONTRACT must be obeyed.They are THE #1 LAW of the LAND that supersedes all other laws that might be created by the political class. I doubt that Trump has any other agenda. The concepts that lead to the adoption of our Constitution are the thing that created the miracle of America from a crappy 13 colonies, wilderness of the 1700s into the most powerful nation on the planet by the end of the 1900s.
    Trump is a man of contracts, first and foremost, the terms of the contract must be followed. If you don’t like the terms, renegotiate until everyone agrees to the new terms. You don’t allow lawyers for the Controlled agency to re define the meaning of the terms that are supposed to control them and their activities, The Constitution is not a malleable instrument that can be molded to fit the needs of some Judge that wants to “write Law from his Bench”…pg

  64. E.M.Smith says:


    One of the folks in the Manhattan Project said he had found a loophole in the constitution that would allow the destruction of America. (Forget exactly who. Szilard? )

    I’d looked into it and decided it was the line that said “this constitution and treaties” are the supreme law of the land. But said nothing for decades.

    Now, it’s clear from things like the non-Treaty Paris Agreement and “trade treaties” that include terms like “and all environmental agreements we someday dream up”; it is clear to me that others have figured out this ‘loophole’.

    We need a clear finding by the Supreme Court, or an amendment, that says “All treaties are subservient to this constitution” or “no treaty can override any term of this Constitution”.

    Otherwise we’ll be treatied to death.

  65. beththeserfb says:

    P.G, my comment was too compressed, meant to suggest how close we
    came via the Clintons et Al to tyranny, and they don’t let up. Freedom is
    always under siege. If Trump hadn’t been elected…

    Here in Oz, our main political parties are both big guvuhmint. Our Liberal*
    Party, once classical Liberal,* has become nanny state Liberal.

  66. Power Grab says:

    Re: “Just like Serioso seems to be assigned to find out who I am and do a psych profile on me”

    I was about to suggest that!

    I suspect the only thing they would like better is to record your voice and/or moving image. Then they could synthesize a sound file that makes it sound like you said things you never said. I think that being an opinion leader puts a bull’s eye on a person these days.

    There is software in the wild to create both audio and video “fake records”. I’m sure you already knew that ;-)

    Oh, and they might also like to grab your DNA.

    It’s just getting too easy these days to create fake “evidence” or a fake “performance” on someone they want to either take down or turn to their own devices.

  67. Power Grab says:

    P.S. On a page I have read before, when I return to it, I start reading at the bottom.

    Just sayin’!

  68. Simon Derricutt says:

    It’s possible that Serioso just doesn’t understand this site, since it’s non-standard. No single subject, but a wide range of interesting stuff, and a collection of viewpoints from people who have gone into things deeper than most, and know more of the real history (rather than what we’re told) and can thus predict better what the results of actions and decisions will be.

    Why does socialism fail? I see that as simply that people don’t put effort in without a prospect of some reward, and if they can get the same rewards for less work then that’s what they’ll do in general. A few people will count their rewards in kudos rather than money, but it’s physical rewards that motivate most – nice house, nice car, ability to go places and do things without counting out limited resources. Socialism will work inside a family or similar close group, but fails once it’s extended to people not closely connected. If someone gets stuff from the communal pot whether or not they put something back, then they have no good reason to put something back in the pot.

    At base, if you don’t work, you don’t eat. If there are too many people not working, then no-one eats. Free stuff has to be paid for by someone.

    Communities survive better than individuals. Chances of life mean that individuals can get ill, have accidents, have crop failures etc., and so the more people in the community the more they have mutual insurance when bad things happen. A bit of socialism is thus useful – someone who has had a misfortune will hopefully become productive if helped to overcome that. Too much support however makes it easier to not contribute than to contribute, so the community fails from too few contributors.

    The politics is thus finding the right balance between dog-eat-dog extreme capitalism, where one failure can result in extreme poverty or death, and nanny-state socialism where productivity is low. Either way, there will be the Evil Bastards who grab too much power one way or another. We obviously need to have a number of rich and extremely rich people, since they are the ones who will invest in the future. People who have bright ideas then have someone to ask for the funds to realise that idea, rather than having to ask a government functionary whose objective is to have an easy life with no surprises. We may not agree with people like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos, but space exploration wouldn’t be progressing so fast without that drive.

    Maybe the big thing about political systems is that one size doesn’t fit all. AFAIK the Inuit used to have a very socialist system, since the severe climate means that people there are far more reliant on having a large community with a lot of mutual support needed.

    Beth’s article on Soros pulls a lot of information into one essay. GC’s very long comment on US politics at by Hanson also pulls a large amount of information together. They help us see the machinations more clearly. There are always useful idiots who will ignore the historical evidence and push for socialism or communism, because the ideals sound great (and would work if everyone was noble enough to work hard with little reward). However, the percentage of people that noble is never sufficient to support the less-noble people who want free stuff.

    Teaching our kids that competition isn’t necessary, and everyone is a winner, doesn’t look to be optimum. There is always competition, with some winners and more losers. Natural variation means that some will be better at running, others at science, others in art, etc.. Though we should aim for equality of opportunity for all, we shouldn’t legislate equality of outcomes – people are different from each other, and some races may be better at a certain task for genetic reasons as well as having a culture conducive to that task.

    We’re heading for a situation where automation will take over the semi-skilled jobs, which means that the system has to head towards something that appears to be socialist with people eating whether they work or not. If it goes totally socialist, and doesn’t allow competition with winners and losers, we’ll all lose. It’s the winners, and the people who are exceptional in some way, that raise the rest of the population and delivers advances, and stopping them doing that would lead to a cessation of the advances that got us this far.

    Here in France, in order to start a business you first need to decide which of the available pigeonholes it fits into, and then you’re stuck with doing just that or going through the hoops if you change to another pigeonhole. It gets complex complying with the regulations. I don’t know what things we’ll be finding out and then developing, but it won’t fit into any of those pigeonholes. It seems there are more French entrepreneurs in California than in France itself. That’s the other big problem with centralised decision-making – it can’t allow for the unexpected.

  69. philjourdan says:

    @Jon K – To add to EM’s comment, local DAs are also the ones that act as gadflys that try to take down politicians. See Rosemary Lehmberg and also Tom Delay. Those are the termites that bring down the opposition.

  70. E.M.Smith says:


    From the very first overly-interested-in-me comment, I had my suspicions about Serioso and his potential “mission”. Part of why I’ve played out the hand. Every act of information gathering leaves information behind. I was curious about where it would lead.

    I also have the advantage that “folks like me” are extremely rare. So can’t be easily pigeonholed.

    Want all the dirt on me? Well, there isn’t any. I’ve pretty much already posted all my adventures. No payoffs. No graft. No corruption. No political connections. No mistresses nor affairs. (I’m not sure I’d know how to even start one. Last time I dated was 30+ years ago with the Mrs…) Only one lifelong spouse. No questionable “deals”. (No deals at all really, other than work contracts). No personal debt (other than a mortgage with 4 years left, so near nothing left). Just no leverage to grab for corrupting either. Don’t do drugs. I do like attractive women, but stop at the looking and talking stage as I made a marriage vow. I keep my word. I like money but feel compelled to earn it instead of grafting it. Basically, I’m an old Eagle Scout. Dudley Do-Right maybe ;-) Too dumb to take the money and bank it.

    I know I’m at the far end of the bell curve on IQ. But I also know that is meaningless in terms of what kind of person you are, how much you will accomplish, your degree of correctness, or your worth. It only indicates how well you can do certain word and symbol tricks. So attempts at flattery or ego inflation break their teeth on a Buddhist sense of the relative worth of the flower and the empty vessel. We all “just are”, and all of us are equally experiencing life.

    I suspect that is why Serioso is so constantly perplexed about me. I’m not normal, nor even close to it, and s/he is constantly trying to find the normal failures and corruption in me. Looking for my “angle” on things, when I have no angle. Just the muse of the day. Often a very deep detailed look into the muse… but tomorrow it might be of no further interest to me. Like PL/1. A programming language I once learned. Now zero interest. Months of effort, tossed to the curb. (An interesting too fat language, The joke at the time was that you could write FORTRAN, Pascal, or COBOL… all in PL/1.) It is extremely hard to find what is a persons’ “obsession” when it comes new each turn of the season. It is extremely hard to find what a person wants when they want nothing (well, except perhaps to be a bit better at being the empty vessel… but can one want to be want free? Or is that a Mu! question? – whack with the stick! OW!)

    At least, that’s my muse per Serioso. Could be a genuinely lost soul who’s high point of their day is puzzling over me. (God I hope not!). Could be a Far Left Wingnut who can’t cope with folks having non-left ideas and is trying desperately to understand how I (and we) could be so crazy. Trapped by his own ideology into a logic box. Unable to see that others might be right, and at least self consistent with a change of a few premises. Could be an assigned Troll who’s job is to disrupt, and keeps running in to my refusal to allow direct insults and such. Could be a higher order operative “keeping tabs” and contributing to nefarious plotting (far less likely).

    But it isn’t possible to know which without a lot more data; and I’ve not cared enough to dig it up. Heck, I’ve not even done a dive into the IP address history. (I could easily collect all IPs used and make a map of posting locations – then from that extrapolate demographic and geopolitical clues). Why bother? It just isn’t important to me.

    So I let him “play the game” and then use it for my own purposes. Let other folks see “behind the curtain” on how a blog operator must think and how to react to Trollish behavior (even if coming from a non-Troll – often you can’t tell if they are really “into it” as a Troll or just picked up some of the style as they are nasty folks). Practice some of what he calls “jousting”. Make an example for other potential Trollish folks to see what they face. Basically, spend a bit of time looking at the thistle flower in the garden… Even the thistle “just is”…

  71. cdquarles says:

    About the Buddhist way, there is a similar concept in Christianity, in my mind. “Be not of the world”, though you live in it, for a time.

  72. cdquarles says:


    Socialism doesn’t work in families, either. If I were king for a day, I’d banish the Marxist term, capitalism. The proper term is free markets. There is no such thing in real life, among free and equal citizens under the law, of ‘dog eat dog capitalism’. Push too hard, you get a push back. Mistreat someone, you’ll lose their business and when your business, corporate or not, fails, you fail. Free markets can and do work, despite flawed humans, precisely because both sides of the transaction meet their own needs by meeting the needs of others, without force (and make no mistake, government is force) or fraud. Markets work by “trust, with verification” and “I can always find another way to meet my needs”. Free markets are inherently ordered and the self-regulation happens in real time; by people able to discern value and eschew ‘by any means necessary’.

  73. E.M.Smith says:


    BTW, your name ended with a b “serfb” above. Two IDs or just a typo?

    I’m unsure where the corruption would have lead. Empires grow until they collapse. Would the Clinton’s graft have lead to tyranny or to revolt? Hard to say. I’d argue for revolt. Heck, IMHO you can see Trump as the revolt. We who voted him in would not have gone away with a Hillary win. Just gotten more “recruits” and the eventual “reactionary” actions stronger.

    America will be the hardest nut to crack for the Global 3rd Way Socialists. Too many of us descended from folks who fled them, and their Aristocratic forebearers, to escape them. Too many folks like me saying “I retreat no further. The battle starts here.” (Wherever here is for each of us)

    I do puzzle over how Australia could be so easily lead into the ruin. Thought you folks were sterner stuff than that. Now disarmed and dependent, being lead to the Socialist Pen.


    Good point. This just started as a place for me to put my “notebook” on the Global Warming technical “Dig Here!”. So I could put links on WUWT instead of typing the same 2 pages for the same questions. I’ve told that to Serioso, but it is not believed that I have no big motive. No “obsession”. That I’m not in it for money nor clicks nor admiration nor fame. Just a place to put notes and help folks see the patterns. It can be a great puzzlement to find out “really, WHY?” when you have already rejected the real reason why…

    Only turned to the political angle when the Dig showed the technical side was a sideshow to occupy minds while the political Big Game was the real driver. I really have zero innate interest in politics, but solving a problem, you go where the answer is to be found; not where you like.

    Per Socialism:

    I’ve pondered an article laying out my view on how and why it fails; and why folks keep embracing it. It’s long and complex so I’ve not done it. But maybe soon… (What is needed is a counter “manifesto” proclaiming the other direction to go….)

    But that folks chase after it is clear. Despite all history of collapses.

  74. E.M.Smith says:


    Per Socialism in Families:

    Folks often use that as an example, yet historically the family was more a model Monarchy. King and Queen of the house with vassal children.

    Where I think it does have some currency is that the children get “free stuff” for sucking up t the parents and following orders. Rather like in the common Aristocratic Socialism (see Venezuela and Nicaragua today). This works in a family as the “leadership” makes the money and hands it out. If fails in the nation state as the people make the money and the leadership takes it to give a little back. Eventually that fails as folks stop working and just take more “free stuff”. Thus Venezuela. As the free stuff ends, the folks get grumpy.

    In some ways the family is more like a rock band with groupies. The leaders of the band make a load of money and hand some of it out as goodies to the groupies (who make the band happy with lots of admiration and “such”…) Works as long as the band makes money and has fame…

  75. philjourdan says:

    @pg – “We are many and getting stronger. They are few and losing their grip on controlling the flow of information. “

    The ants and the grasshoppers. Once the Ants figure out there are a lot more of them, the grasshoppers lose. That is what the ants need to learn. Once they do, game over.

  76. cdquarles says:

    I agree that some see families as monarchies, well, wasn’t it from big, successful families that monarchs arose? That said, families are corporations. What is a set that has no members? A set known as the empty set. They are not commercial corporations, though.

    Children are akin, up to a point, capital investments. You put effort in now to get a return later. Even with that, it is only newborns and toddlers that are ‘useless eaters’, in the view of some. No. Children are how we perpetuate ourselves and are a kind of insurance. Children, once past toddling, can be and are productive in their own right. Since they have little experience, they must be shown things they can understand so they learn how things work, and when wrong, what not to do in the future. Unfortunately, far too few these days see children that way. I have gradually come to the conclusion that ‘coddling’ our children has ruined them.

  77. E.M.Smith says:


    I was working from about age 7. Maybe closer to 5 if you include “inside the home”.

    Yes, it violated several child labor laws. Nobody in my farm town cared. I chose to work as I could get money that way and do what I wanted with it. Washed dishes (by hand…) in our family restaurant. Started 2 businesses on my own. (one was making jewelery out of craft parts and selling it.) All as a kid. Set some life long habits.

    Now kids never get to learn those habits. They are entirely dependent (now up to about 26…) on their parents, then are suddenly supposed to be in charge of their destiny? Yeah, right…

  78. cdquarles says:

    Same here. I was put to work in the home, first as soon as I was big enough and that was around 4 or 5, then later as a salesman, supported by my grandparents because I put forth the initiative, to do it. I wasn’t that good of a salesman, but I wasn’t that bad at it, either.

  79. cdquarles says:

    Argh, hit enter too soon. From about 8 or 9, until I went off to college, I sold pecans gathered from the trees each fall and, when the fruit was good, peaches and plums. Also sold blackberries gathered, gasp, ‘in the wild’, unsupervised, when big enough, so around 12. I got a few other jobs, too; but mostly in the summer. Yeah, they started getting antsy about child labor.

  80. philjourdan says:

    “Washed dishes (by hand…) “

    I remember visiting my aunt/godmother, and after dinner, she told one of her sons it was his turn to stack the dishwasher. And he whined about it. I told him he was lucky as we did not have a dish washer! My mother corrected me “We have 4, you and your brother and sisters”. ;-)

  81. E.M.Smith says:


    Yeah, anyone whines at me about washing dishes gets to hear about seating for 60 people and 3 or 4 turns / meal period… Can you say 200 sets of dishes PLUS pots and pans? ALL by hand. Then again a few hours later… Think of it as one person-year of dishes per shift… day after day…

  82. beththeserfb says:

    E.M re yr query, The end ‘b’ is a typo.

    Above comments on child labour, so nice.
    My father used to tell us kids, ‘If you get in for nothing you clap.’ )

  83. gallopingcamel says:

    Here is another long essay that presents a slightly different perspective. It is not just that the fate of the USA hangs by a thread. The PRC (People’s Republic of China) is in deep doo-doo too.

    In both countries the rich are getting richer at the expense of the poor and that is the stuff that revolutions are made of (aka dynasty change in China):

  84. philjourdan says:

    “My father used to tell us kids, ‘If you get in for nothing you clap.’”

    My grandfather used to tell us “Beggars can’t be choosy”. Basically means the same thing.

  85. DonM says:

    phil, every time I hear or see that quip, into my head pops “… and Chiggers can’t be boozers….”

    (well they can … but generally it leads to a bad end.)

  86. gail combs says:

    jim2 says: “If I had to pick a best buddy and my choices were Putin or Soros, I’d just shoot myself.”

    I would most definitely choose Putin…

    Luboš Motl did several articles on the Soro-Ulraine-Putin mess so if anyone wants info checkout back ‘issues’ of h t tps://

  87. E.M.Smith says:

    My impression of Putin is that he is a Very Tough Cookie who survived the USSR, but puts his country, Russia, and it’s people ahead of all else, seeing his duty in that as requiring him to be in charge and use “whatever means available”.

    Compare that to Soros: A slimeball who takes down nations and promotes riot and anarchy for his own gain. Manipulating people and systems for destructive ends. (End the nation state in general and overthrowing “nationalists” he does not like).

    Between those two, I’ll take the Nationalist. His interests may be counter to mine as I am more interested in my country, but we’re both honest about our interests and I can “disagree and respect” at the same time… But I’d not pick a fight with him ;-) Though I do think we could share a beer and exchange POV. I’d ask about the problem of personal morality vs “ends” and be interested in the answer. (Supposedly his mother was active Eastern Orthodox and that’s why he restored the church / removed the communist foot from its throat. That alone has me thinking maybe he isn’t as bad as “Progressives” assert.)

    For Soros, I can’t see any common ground. Don’t see anything to admire in the man, and can’t see anything to talk about with him that would not end in a list of complaints. I’d not want to share a beer with him… it would be awkward

    I can’t see either one as a “buddy”, but I think I could be comfortable talking with Putin and I suspect he could find something interesting from me. (Probably my POV on US Politics).

    For Trump: I doubt he’d want to slow down long enough to talk, and the whole beer thing is right out, so I can’t see much “connection” opportunity. He’s a deal maker and I have nothing to deal… besides, time spent with me would be time not spent draining the swamp, so poor investment.

    Frankly, I can’t think of any leader of a country right now where I’d want them as my “buddy”… Might be interesting to share a glass of wine with Marine LePen… Netanyahu seems like a guy it would be interesting to talk with for a while over a pitcher. After that it’s mostly crickets…

  88. E.M.Smith says:


    Might want to check the “name” line in your cache / when posting. It’s still getting the ‘b’ on the end. (Typo once, then if you just accept the ‘fill in the form’ next time it gets the saved typo).

    I agree with Pointman on that. Trump and Putin are two nationalists who have agreed where they can, but neither one is going to cave to the other. The Nit Harvesters are Globalists who see any strong Nationalist as their foe and are trying to make a “Let’s you and him fight” out of it.

    Frankly, IMHO, the best strategic choice would be for Putin and Trump to form an alliance with the other Nationalists of the world against the Globalists and do a ‘take down’.

    India already tossed Soros as has Russia. Figure on a few more from the “Icky”Stans between them. Toss in a Pakistan and maybe the Philippines and that would probably break China free from the Globalist Money Teat (seeing a bigger prize forming). Pretty soon you have something big going…

    I was, as Pointman was, astounded at the vitriol over two leaders meeting. To me, it shouted volumes that Trump was “over the target”… That’s what pisses them off? OK, do more of that!

  89. p.g.sharrow says:

    It would certainly appear to me that this screaming and yelling is coming from Soros funded Communist shills, Antifa, YSM, Democrat politicians all launch their talking point ti-raids in unison from the same script, targeting the same people. This can only come from a well organized world wide conspiracy to destroy the existing order to pave the way to world wide Communist Peoples Dictatorship. Time to call them by their real name…pg

  90. gail combs says:

    “….For Trump: I doubt he’d want to slow down long enough to talk, and the whole beer thing is right out, so I can’t see much “connection” opportunity…..”

    Actually he does slow down and you probably would find something of interest to talk about.

    This from the campaign as relayed by Chrystalia @ Conservative Tree House in 2016

    My father was brought into NYC when they were hanging the marble in the TT atrium, by a buddy of his. I was only 10, but he brought me along. And I met Trump. A truly amazing person, actually. We have millionaires/Boston Brahmins on one side of the family, I can’t remember ever meeting any other millionaire who would, or COULD, work a “real” job, so to speak. He was a little surprised to see a kid on the job site, but he was one of the very few adults that didn’t speak down to me, or at me.

    I was a gifted kid–and that s*cks, because other kids don’t relate to you at all, and adults don’t know what to make of kids who are as well read and articulate as I was. He treated me like PEOPLE, and I have never forgotten that.

    And it was funny–went to see him in Phx. My other half and I were just about the last out, as I had to find and use a restroom–and there he was, just talking about floor treatments with the janitorial staff LOL. They were in a total jaw drop state, talking to a billionaire, and he was taking notes.

    Anyone who has seen Trump on a job site could tell stories like mine. The “working” Trump and the “campaign” Trump are nearly polar opposites. He’s running a classic Sun Tzu campaign, and I am enjoying every minute of it LOL.

    So I think that you and President Trump would really enjoy a sit down chat over a beer/Diet Coke.

  91. Larry Ledwick says:

    (Supposedly his mother was active Eastern Orthodox and that’s why he restored the church / removed the communist foot from its throat. That alone has me thinking maybe he isn’t as bad as “Progressives” assert.)

    The other is Russia has traditionally been ruled by a group of competing power blocks (their version of “Checks and Balances”)

    Mostly it has been The State, The Army, The Church, with minor contributors from the KGB/GRU/SVD and organized crime (which some would say is synonymous with the intelligence directorates.)

    He was many believe restoring that traditional counter balance to the Military and Intelligence factions, and through its morality teachings a way to encourage a move away from rampant crime and also encourage large families to grow the traditional population base in the country.

    As you say I think I prefer an honest nationalist to a mercenary sociopath like Soros. At least with the Nationalist you can get a handle on what his long term agenda is.

  92. E.M.Smith says:


    Ah, well, there is that…. As I was “Director of I.T. and Facilities” at a small high tech S.Valley firm for a couple of years, and really got “into” lighting; we’d likely end up talking the merits of different lighting systems ;-)

    HID metal lamps are the best for large area lighting, IMHO. Like high pressure sodium and about as efficient, but a purer white light (and not afflicted with the 440 nm blue spike of LEDs that causes insomnia). Inside I like the PL-13 at 2700 K the most, though the larger cousins are better in high light demand areas – especially like the PL-13 in wall sconces and down-lights… Far less garish than the LED bulbs, no insomnia problems, and just about as efficient while being dirt cheap in industrial quantities. The T-8 tubes nice for overall office lighting with an electronic ballast – cheaper than the PL-13 and just as pleasant a light, but less fancy fixture choices.

    FWIW for the T-x tubes the x is in 1/8 of an inch increments. The “fat” office light tubes are T-12 or 1.5 inches while the T-8 is a smaller diameter 1 inch tube. Uses a lot less phosphors so you can use a much better phosphor and get better light quality and lower costs.

    Sometimes I really miss doing the Facilities stuff. So much easier than I.T. and the staff just do what you tell them to do without a lot of “negotiation”, unlike I.T. folks ;-)

    So, OK, given that lighting is a big part of building O&M I could see Trump & me talking it over ;-)


    Hmmm…. Interesting point. I’d not considered that as a part of his motivation. He’s a multi-factor guy so it will be in the mix with all the other factors.

    While I dislike some of his tactics, and his brazen disdain for the “rules” of the West used to upset me some; I’m now coming to see it more as a necessity for Russia to chart their own course and piss on the “rules” from the west (given that the “rules” are being made by Globalists for Globalist E.B.s). Given the problem set he has faced, I don’t see a better way to achieve his goals, and he has bee achieving them… Were I Russian and running the place, I’m not sure I’d do a whole lot differently. It’s a hard and harsh place and “being nice” will just get you dead…

  93. gallopingcamel says:

    Greetings Gail Combs! We have missed you.

  94. David A says:

    Regarding “He’s a deal maker and I have nothing to deal…”

    My my, yet you have the most precious commodities of all; knowledge and practical experience! Areas of help…
    Tech – cyber warfare Russia Russia- voting machines
    Science issues – CAGW …
    Economics – where does it end?
    General bounce it off guy, any subject. You are hard to find. Most all areas intersect or connect somewhere, certainly they all connect to economics.

    A person like you, with authority to get the inside stuff on any issue and relay it in layman terms is, IMV, essential for an overall postion like the POTUS.

    Just sayin.

  95. I hope that all who’ve read this piece will henceforth frequent Beth’s excellent Serf Underground blog, a must-read as far as I’m concerned and deserving of a wide audience. Let the rallying cry for this Australian site be “Serfs’ up!”

  96. philjourdan says:

    Beth’s Australian? Never could tell from her accent. ;-)

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