California Going (to?) Pot

Well, in just a few days California joins the ranks of the Recreational Pot Friendly States.

It isn’t like it has been particularly harsh on Pot Users anyway. “Medical” Marijuana was widely available for such ailments as poor appetite and melancholy (or stress or PTSD or whatever was bothering you). But now one need not even seek out a medical use card.

We are getting nags on the TV about smoking MJ in your car being flat out illegal (even for the passenger) and that driving buzzed on MJ is good for a DUI bust. Also that restaurants, bars, and anywhere else where smoking tobacco is prohibited is also prohibited. Oh, and outdoors “public spaces” too – whatever all that encompasses.

So it’s legal, you just can’t do it anywhere but your own home and there only so long as The Feds don’t bust you under federal law. I guess that’s “progress”…

Some links:

http://www.canorml.org/california_cannabis_laws

Adult use of cannabis is legal in California under Prop. 64, the Adult Use of Marijuana Act (AUMA), approved by the voters on Nov 8, 2016. In general, AUMA allows adults 21 and over to possess, privately use, and give away up to one ounce of cannabis, and to cultivate no more than six plants for personal use at their residence. It also legalizes the commercial sale, distribution and production of cannabis for adult use at state-licensed facilities beginning Jan 1, 2018, under terms spelled out in the Medical and Adult Use of Cannabis Regulation and Safety Act (MAUCRSA) approved by the legislature in 2017. Local city and county governments can restrict or ban cannabis businesses in their jurisdiction.

Cannabis remains legal for medical use by patients of all ages who have a physician’s recommendation under California’s 1996 medical marijuana law, Prop. 215. Prop 215 affords somewhat broader rights to possess and cultivate for personal use than AUMA. Prior to AUMA, the sale, production and distribution of medical cannabis by so-called patients’ collectives was authorized in loose terms under a law known as SB 420 (2004). However, SB 420 collectives will be phased out and subsumed in the state regulation and licensing system beginning in 2018.

The Bureau of Cannabis Control in the Dept. of Consumer Affairs is in charge of licensing and regulating retail sales, distribution, and testing; the Dept. of Food and Agriculture is in charge of cultivation; and the Dept. of Public Health is in charge of manufacturing. Prior approval by local city or county governments is required for all state-licensed facilities. Further info on state regulations may be found at the California Cannabis Portal.

Greater detail at:

http://www.canorml.org/california_cannabis_laws#List

Where I found the specific definition of Cannabis interesting:

Code Text
Health and Safety Code – HSC
DIVISION 10. UNIFORM CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT [11000 – 11651] ( Division 10 repealed and added by Stats. 1972, Ch. 1407. )

CHAPTER 1. General Provisions and Definitions [11000 – 11033] ( Chapter 1 added by Stats. 1972, Ch. 1407. )

11018.

“Cannabis” means all parts of the plant Cannabis sativa L., whether growing or not; the seeds thereof; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of the plant, its seeds or resin. It does not include either of the following:

(a) Industrial hemp, as defined in Section 11018.5.

(b) The weight of any other ingredient combined with cannabis to prepare topical or oral administrations, food, drink, or other product.
(Amended by Stats. 2017, Ch. 27, Sec. 115. (SB 94) Effective June 27, 2017. Note: This section was amended on Nov. 8, 2016, by initiative Prop. 64.)

So omits Indica (which was one of the early dodges on Sativa restrictions, if not commonly known) and since it includes things like resin, that’s one ounce of OMG hash…

The “cultivate 6 plants at home” is interesting. Once, about 40+ years ago, I set up a minor “grow” in my living room (when a college student). I had a single 4 foot fluorescent fixture over a row of pots of pot. When starting seeds, I might get a dozen pop up – which would now likely be an illegal act, so start one seed at a time. I’d also have about 1/2 dozen junior plants (like under 6 inches tall) and then a row of 3 or so bigger ones that were about 3 feet tall. I did NOT let these things go to full size…

Well, those 3 at half-pint size were way more than I could use. Partly since I was never much of a “user” anyway. More like once on a weekend every 2nd or 3rd weekend; not ever day… and partly because I figured out it impaired my memory enough to make passing finals a challenge… I eventually invented the Acetone Extraction method to reduce bulk. Where you just pack a jar with leaves and stuff, then pour acetone over it. Let soak a while – 20 minutes was overkill. Then decant to a shallow dish outdoors to evaporate. The stuff is very flammable, like alcohol or lighter fluid, so no ignition sources… The green oil left behind is a nice hash oil.

But it looks like the present law forbids doing solvent extractions at home (only “licensed” people can handle fire and flammable things… besides, Acetone would be a CO2 making pollutant VOC Volatile Organic Hydrocarbon so clearly evil, even if you only use 1 cup per month… and more is used removing fingernail polish.) I think I’ll need to ponder non-Acetone DIY organic oil extraction. Saw one film of a “bud press” where the extract was squished out onto parchment paper. So hydraulic jack and steel plate sales may show a sudden rise ;-) Just folded the bud inside the parchment, squash, dry bud surrounded by oily residue of hash oil resin on the paper, scrape and save… I’m sure folks will find ways.

So on the one hand, I look at 6 fully grown adult plants and think OMG! That would supply my whole block! OTOH, I look at starting 6 seeds with one mature plant as being illegal and wonder about changes in processing strategy. (i.e. you can’t start 40 and toss 39 keeping only the best…) I guess more selectivity up front on seed stock, and a tendency to grow just one or two plants to full-on maturity under ideal conditions with floor to ceiling growth or in a 20 foot tall greenhouse…

Frankly, I’m tempted to “grow one” just for the novelty of it… then again, I’d rather NOT be at risk of a Federal Bust for my one legal (and only ornamental) plant… when targeted for my anti-AGW visibility… so I’ll likely just find a friend or neighbor who’s growing and “visit” ;-)

Since it DOES have a lot of medicinal uses, I’d be tempted to find and preserve a small seed stock in my seed freezer now… but I likely need to do a bit more R&D on the legality of that, specifically.

Expect some teething pains in the whole “roll out” ;-) after Jan 1, 2018…

Though there’s lots of other complications too. Like local ordinances…

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=HSC&sectionNum=11362.2.

Health and Safety Code – HSC
DIVISION 10. UNIFORM CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT [11000 – 11651] ( Division 10 repealed and added by Stats. 1972, Ch. 1407. )
CHAPTER 6. Offenses and Penalties [11350 – 11392] ( Chapter 6 added by Stats. 1972, Ch. 1407. )
ARTICLE 2. Cannabis [11357 – 11362.9] ( Heading of Article 2 amended by Stats. 2017, Ch. 27, Sec. 121. )
11362.2.

(a) Personal cultivation of cannabis under paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 11362.1 is subject to the following restrictions:

(1) A person shall plant, cultivate, harvest, dry, or process plants in accordance with local ordinances,
if any, adopted in accordance with subdivision (b).

(2) The living plants and any cannabis produced by the plants in excess of 28.5 grams are kept within the person’s private residence, or upon the grounds of that private residence (e.g., in an outdoor garden area), are in a locked space, and are not visible by normal unaided vision from a public place.

(3) Not more than six living plants may be planted, cultivated, harvested, dried, or processed within a single private residence, or upon the grounds of that private residence, at one time.

(b) (1) A city, county, or city and county may enact and enforce reasonable regulations to regulate the actions and conduct in paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 11362.1.

(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), a city, county, or city and county shall not completely prohibit persons engaging in the actions and conduct under paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 11362.1 inside a private residence, or inside an accessory structure to a private residence located upon the grounds of a private residence that is fully enclosed and secure.

(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 11362.1, a city, county, or city and county may completely prohibit persons from engaging in actions and conduct under paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 11362.1 outdoors upon the grounds of a private residence.

(4) Paragraph (3) shall become inoperative upon a determination by the California Attorney General that adult use of cannabis is lawful in the State of California under federal law, and an act taken by a city, county, or city and county under paragraph (3) is unenforceable upon the date of that determination by the Attorney General.

(5) For purposes of this section, “private residence” means a house, an apartment unit, a mobile home, or other similar dwelling.

So in general it looks like if outdoors, you need it invisible and inside a locked cage “that is fully enclosed and secure”… and the general push is to have it indoors in sealed grow rooms “may completely prohibit […] outdoors upon the grounds of a private residence.” OK… so this accomplishes what, exactly? Don’t show don’t tell? Out of sight out of mind? “Don’t raid my plants, man!…”

Ok, so no big one in the front yard as “decoration”. No unlocked gate if growing in your back yard. (Though why folks ought to be allowed to trespass into my yard is left unclear…)

It looks like the optimal strategy is to have 6 plants at equal age spacing with harvest at maximal growth / unit time grown with ideal conditions (hot, humid, lots of grow lamps, lots of fertilizer) and have one ready to harvest when you start soaking / germinating the next seed. Optimal harvest day likely about day 4 of soak / sprout process so it is completely harvested and processed before the new sprout pops the surface and becomes a ‘plant’. I’d guess optimal harvest at about one plant / month, but I suspect ‘rapid maturity’ varieties will suddenly become of interest.

An open issue would be that “possessed”. Can a jar of mixed leaves become illegal if you are un-careful about reaching zero of any one plant before adding the next so end up with scraps of a dozen leaves from different plants in the jar? Will genetic testing of samples become common? Will folks start growing from genetic clones to avoid this? (I know the commercial folks already do that). Oh, and I presume Giant Clones will also get more emphasis. (“Hey, man, can I get one that grows 100 feet tall? Six of those would be really rad…”)

There will also likely be “issues” around the hash oil jar. How do you know how many individual plants are “possessed” in that jar?

Ah, well. Not all that important to me. As noted above, even when I did try it, I was a piker. A single 3 foot plant not even grown to maturity (i.e. no “bud” just leaves) and dried in the “5 minute miracle cure” in the oven (scatter on cookie tray, 5 min in the oven on about 250 F) made a jar of leaf crumble that was more than I could use even 1/2 of before the next plant was ready… (I harvested when they reached the light bar that was on top of the “cinderblock bookcase” that held the sprout pots – or about 3 feet high). So I shudder to think how long it would take me to use up an 8 foot full bud modern clone at maturity… Likely my remaining lifespan…

In Conclusion

So what’s a curious fellow to do. Nothing? That’s no fun. Smoke up commercial stuff? I’d be useless. Mostly it just puts me to sleep and causes me to forget things, so kind of pointless. Grow some outdoors for the experience? Too much trouble finding out the nested series of laws (Feds, State, County, City, whatever…) and figuring out what ‘secure’ means and what “out of sight” means… (Hey, we saw it from the police helicopter so it was visible to the public…)

That just leaves “grow one little guy” in the office just as a spit in the eye of stupid laws, or find a neighbor / friend / whatever and “help” them – as a kind of tepid cowardly way to support the idea of freedom.

Most likely I’ll just avoid the whole thing since, after the Tallbloke Raid, it’s pretty clear bloggers who are anti-AGW-paranoia are targeted and their is no reason to make that target larger or easier.

Well, I still have a few days to decide. Join the party, vs tepid symbolism plant, vs cowardly cheerleader, vs Do Nothing, vs some other bright idea.

But it just feels like a big party is about to break out and I’m going to be sitting at home watching Perry Mason reruns… from fear of The State (or really The Feds)… and I really don’t like doing things from fear. It tends to rile the Celt in me and gets me all “in your grill” grumpy… Wonder if there’s an herbal cure for that? ;-)

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
This entry was posted in Emergency Preparation and Risks, News Related, Plants - Seeds - Gardening and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

34 Responses to California Going (to?) Pot

  1. philjourdan says:

    The problem they are still dealing with in Washington and Colorado is – what constitutes “impaired” with MJ? And it is not like you can test the level with a puff on a tube. I guess they will be figuring that out eventually.

    But as for how it has been in California, I know! I had to sleep in a room full of medical MJ plants at one point (my wife’s nephew had a license to grow them). It was not hard to get the license, and how were they going to tell if a plant was missing a few buds?

    Then there are the health issues that have been coming out of late. Some are hysteria I am sure. But then the health issues of tobacco were not known 400 years ago. They will come out over time.

    Best to let the kids have their fun and just stay off the road when they are driving high (how do you tell – empirically – at the time of a stop?).

  2. Larry Ledwick says:

    This is obviously still an area where case law is developing. DUI while high is a concern in Colorado. Partly because the novelty has worn off, and also a public info campaign explaining that driving stoned is a DUI arrests are down but authorities are not sure if the incidence of driving while high is actually stable or going down.

    https://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/17/marijuana-duis-drop/

    The good news for Colorado is that now there is another big magnet state to draw all the street stoners who come here just for the MJ availability so hopefully our street scene will taper off on all the folks who just came here for the drug availability.

    I know a lot of normal people who use it regularly and mostly responsibly, but there is a sub culture of street folks that are attracted by the legal recreational MJ and down town Denver is starting to have problems with lots of those folks hanging out on the 16th street mall, (and Boulders Pearl Street Mall). There were also some problems with drug related home invasion crimes which spiked right after MJ became legal but it is not clear if that has dropped out of the news due to selective reporting or the incidence of such events is actually going down, as growers and sellers get smarter about good security practices.

    http://kdvr.com/2016/12/16/marijuana-store-sued-after-home-invasion-style-attack/

    http://www.9news.com/news/crime/2-dead-after-home-invasion-gunfight-at-illegal-pot-grow/490871234

    http://denver.cbslocal.com/2017/07/07/arizon-colorado-home-invasion-robbery/

    http://www.krdo.com/news/crime/three-suspects-at-large-considered-armed-and-dangerous/667059760

    https://www.rt.com/usa/357977-home-invasion-shooting-pot-grower/

    http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_29097757/suspects-reported-armed-robbery-high-speed-chase-boulder

    http://gazette.com/police-masked-men-made-off-with-marijuana-after-caon-city-home-invasion/article/1565888

  3. p.g.sharrow says:

    good seed is easy to obtain, by the each or by the hand full. straight bred or feminine.
    I think clones are a better way to go if you want uniformity…pg

  4. cdquarles says:

    They do a field sobriety test, which is a simplified mental status test plus ‘blow into the breathalyser’. What they’re looking for is sufficient mental incapacity, regardless of source. IOW, being too sleepy counts as close enough for a stop. If the breathalyser comes up zero, they can make you go to the hospital for a toxicology screen, if your apparent mental incapacity is high enough and lasts long enough.

    Key point is intoxication, which will still have false negatives and positives on screening tests as well as the confirmatory ones, in addition to the occasional felony mishandling and/or data fabrication.

    I can tell you straight up that intoxication signs and symptoms overlap with non-drug related medical conditions, such as delirium and/or dementia. Consider what someone with diabetes in a state of diabetic ketoacidosis will look and smell like.

  5. p.g.sharrow says:

    Easiest way to get rid of cannabis crime is to make it totally legal. It is so easy to grow that anyone that can grow a tomato can grow more buds then they and their friends can use.
    The resultant over supply would make it nearly worthless. My guess less than $500 per pound of good buds, In California the farm price is now less than $800 per pound for manicured buds due to production exceeding demand. Not worth growing….pg

  6. E.M.Smith says:

    @CDQuarles:

    Quite true. Heck, I’m a worse driver at 7 AM with a hangover than I am at 11 PM well past the DUI threshold. Why? My body temp cycles further than most at at 97.4 F plus dehydrated plus short slept plus… well, let’s just say I’m not all there… but put me at my peak ( 99.7 F) in the late afternoon, well rested, with a bottle of Chablis in me, and I’m not likely to notice nor is anyone else. It mostly just knocks me back to more “normal” on things like speed of thinking and performance.

    Oddly, drinking between waking up and noon is a real no-no for me. A couple of employers had “events” then (one was a beach day-off reward with drinks on the bus in transit starting at 8 AM, another was a sales BBQ event starting at 9 am). I don’t like the taste, don’t like the feeling, and just get low energy right quick; then proceed directly to “hangover” feelings without ever feeling “drunk” even on just about 3 big beers or 1/2 bottle of wine. I attribute that to my abominable low body temperature then and that my peak temp comes after 4 pm… (NASA study I was in with 24 x 7 temperature readings… they once woke me up about 6 AM to ask if my temperature probe had fallen out and would I put it back in… I reported “Nope, it’s stuck up my *ss where it’s supposed to be, can I go back to sleep now?” Apparently my temperature range caused some of the MDs to natter and dream of papers they could write…)

    Then there was the time I “had issues” after too few beers… and discovered the “May cause drowsiness – alcohol may intensify this effect” for benadryl also proceeded the other way… and intensified my response to the beer. I ended up unable to see straight way too soon…

    One wonders just how many folks have the Tiger Woods experience with mixing various drugs (prescription or OTC) with various conditions with alcohol and seasoned with sleep deprivation, herbals, body temperature swings. Then layer on diabetic effects, hypoglycemia (that can look like drunk stupid), anaphylaxis of various degrees, low blood pressure effects, etc.

    Oh Well. Not my problem. Some long time ago I decided it was just not interesting at the bar scene (just too damn loud to talk for one thing…) and prefer a nice bottle of single malt at home with the telly or monitor… Guess I really am a Geek ;-)

  7. E.M.Smith says:

    @P.G.:

    My living room toy grow, as noted, made far more than I could consume. I mostly did it just to see what could be done. I did NOTHING to optimize conditions. 4 foot twin tube T-8 regular cool white shop light was total light (other than leakage from the overhead 100 W incandescent when I was in the room). Used plain cheap potting soil in small (gallon or 2 gallon max) sized pots. Regular room temp and ambient humidity which in the Central Valley is typically not much. Harvested when still all leaf and under 3 foot tall when they started to touch the lights.

    I was mostly curious about what could be done, and found out it was “too much too easy” for anything I’d want or need. Ended the experiment when I had a quart jar of leaf crumbles and about 1/2 oz of green hash extract. It was a year or two before that was all gone, and by then I was graduating and not interested anymore at all.

    Just putting a single plant in optimized soil of full depth with real grow lights and proper humidity / heat ought to yield more than even a hard core consumer could want (unless smoking it a dozen times a day…)

    One side note:

    I did discover that each individual plant had very different properties. One had more visual effects (jazzy zig-zag lines around things for example) while another was more “sleepy time” and a third was low on both of those, but gave many more giggles… I wonder some times why so much emphasis is put on total THC and not so much on the nuance of the effects. Perhaps that will change now.

    Another “sport” was a tri-cot. Had three leaves at each stage. So 50% more per unit height and limb length. I thought it might be a big deal, but found the “pot expert” in the botany department (who was very circumspect when first opening his door ;-) and he explained it wasn’t that rare and happens sometimes. Still wish I’d kept it going as a sport, though…

    Frankly, the botany of it was much more interesting to me than the drug itself. That geek thing… I could find happiness as the “Grow Master” on a pot ranch, but I’d need other folks to do the “sensory assessment” as I’m just not up for it. Oh well, the field will be saturated with way too many folks for the next decade. So I guess I’m just stuck with computers. ;-)

  8. H.R. says:

    @E.M.
    LOL! Wonderfully written post!
    You captured the experimentation of youth, the legal aspects over the years, the variety of effects, and the wild wonderful world of cannabis horticulture all in a few paragraphs.
    Nice!

    I was a pot smoker from about age 19 to 22 years. I quit because it made me stupid, and I didn’t like myself as a stupid person. I never ever felt addicted. I just quite smoking pot when I decided I no longer wanted to be stupid.

    I also didn’t like the paranoia, which was really intense when I was stoned. Every station wagon with a roof rack that I saw in the rear view mirror looked like a cop car to me. Interesting: I did note that smoking MJ induced the paranoia, but ingesting MJ did not produce as intense of a feeling of paranoia. Thus, I gravitated to specializing in making MJ brownies courtesy of a box of Betty Crocker brownie mix. Yum!

    Anyhow, I quit using MJ at age 22 or 23 because it was making me stupid and possession of a joint could get you 20 years of nasty time.

    MJ is a buzz. So is Bud Light. I don’t begrudge anybody a buzz when they want to leave behind the cares of the world for a few hours. And now the legal consequences of possessing or growing pot are minimal. But I still remember the extreme paranoia and the diminished cognitive functioning and I would rather knock back a few beers than eat a few MJ-laced brownies from my own lovingly grown pot.

    All that being said, I have been mentally filing away the anecdotal evidence of the medical benefits of MJ that have been publicized over the years and I would not hesitate to throw a few seeds in a pot, grow some nice plants, and bake some medicinal brownies for my personal use, paranoia and stupidity not withstanding.

    I’m not going to smoke or ingest pot until it is a medical option, but I am certainly not against it for others to use even if just for the buzz.

    @Larry
    There IS a problem with people attempting to function while impaired by MJ use. I don’t have any answers, but in the good ol’ days I recognized in myself that I was driving impaired. I was driving anyways. Did I mention that MJ makes me stupid? 😜

  9. kneel says:

    “…but in the good ol’ days I recognized in myself that I was driving impaired.”
    That’s why alcohol is so bad for drivers – it not only changes your physical coordination etc, but it also lowers your risk perception. Whereas the stoners go “Oh, wow, I’m soooo wasted…” and slow down (maybe too much). So, together with the lack of a an objective “impairment” test, this means we really don’t know (unlike alcohol) even if it’s a risk, or rather how much of one…

  10. David A says:

    My freedom loving nature is for legalization. My observations of self and others plus review of journals indicate the harms vastly outweigh the benefits.
    Today’s MJ is very strong, and the list of harms is slowly growing. Some study’s show correlations to disparate psychosis; paranoid, delusions of grandeur, destruction of drive or strong indifference to all. There is likely genetics involved in some of these harms. Also loss of IQ is common.

    Curiously the comments above reflect some of this- the makes me stupid, the paranoia, the lack of volition.

  11. M Simon says:

    David A says:
    29 December 2017 at 6:29 am

    I once worked in a large aerospace company dept. where I estimate about 1/2 the engineers were stoners. If I was you I’d avoid commercial aircraft. Just to be on the safe side.

    None of the “pot lowers IQ” studies have been replicated. Most have been debunked due to confounding factors (like alcohol – whose effect on IQ is well known).

    We know how to solve the alcohol problem. Make it illegal. /sarc

  12. M Simon says:

    David A,

    And further. The correlation of cannabis use with mental problems may indicate self medication vs causation. At this point a lot of “information” depends on what you want to believe.

    Given the rise of cannabis use vs the rise in mental problems – if it is a problem – it is not a big one. Alcohol on the other hand………………

  13. David A says:

    M Simmon, I did not argue against the legalization of MJ.
    Regarding contrary studies, yes there are many on all sides.

    Regarding personal observations

  14. David A says:

    … personal observations, I have seen the negatives play out strongly in family, friends and acquaintances.

    BTW, it will be some time before we know the answers for certain, but my point regarding the strength of today’s MJ is very valid. It is, much more rapidly then alcohol, which us fast in itsel, strongly mood altering and this lasts a long time. IMV this is foolish for anyone to recreationally engage in.

  15. M Simon – David A has a point in that often in these days the pot has been bred to be high in THC and low in cannabinol, so the effects are different. I’ve read studies that show that THC without enough cannabinol can make some people paranoid. May be comparing apples and pears here, and what might be bought on the street may not be what it is advertised as.

    On the other hand, based on my experience in college in the early 70s, a majority of the bankers, lawyers, politicians, and other people who are now of high standing will have smoked pot as a student (and likely some still do). That was of course mostly the natural version, where there are thousands of years of experience that very few people (if any) will have any lasting problems as a result.

    With Canada also going the full-legalisation route, ex-policemen and ex-politicians are becoming suppliers and growers. Amusing…. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42285743 Still, that at least should guarantee that the harmful stuff isn’t sold.

  16. jim2 says:

    I think most “conventional” drugs – pot, cocaine, heroine and other opiates – should be legalized. The only hitch is that I don’t want to pay to take care of addicts. I don’t want to do it now and I doubt legalization would create that many more.

  17. E.M.Smith says:

    @H.R.:

    I had exactly one bout of paranoia. One Friday night in college, a few of us had strong munchies and had gone to Denny’s (as it is always open). My eyes go brilliantly red for just about anything (due to the lingering effects of crap blown into them once) so there is just no way to not look at me and think I’m stoned, even when I’m not, if pollen is strong. On MJ I darn well look like I’m going to bleed out through my eyes…

    So two cops come in and sit down at the counter just across from our booth…

    I managed to “hold it together” and just look at my plate while eating or at the person next to me away from the cops… but it was a very very long “coffee break”…

    Never before, and never after, had any such feelings. My guess is that whatever you are feeling, you get more of it, and my natural state is far removed from worry.

    Pre DUI MJ:

    How can you detect that someone is driving stoned?
    They are the ones doing 25 in a 65 zone…
    I expect that there will be a LOT of very slow traffic come 2018.

    Oddly, I never really felt like driving anywhere on MJ, but did notice that when folks did drive, they were just a lot slower about getting anywhere. “Oh wow, man, that’s such a pretty green light…” (Honk Honk!)

    @David A:

    Yes, the stuff today makes the stuff from the 70s ( “Dime baggy of Mexican”) look like a joke. A few (dozen?) years back a friend wanted to share, so I did. I was between contracts and figured “what the heck, it’s been 40 years”… Due to a tendency to drowsiness on MJ, I was asleep in about 30 minutes… During that 30 minutes, the effect was considerably stronger than I’d had before. Instead of buzzed, it was more “completely loopy”. Haven’t dared touch anything since…

    When I decided it was messing with my memory too much in college and stopped, it was a good 4 to 6 months before memory returned to normal. It rapidly improved, then slowed, and only got back to near full on an asymptote. The pleasant effects, though, were mostly gone the next day and pretty much all gone inside 2 days.

    Were I “in the market” now, I’d be in the odd situation of asking the seller if they had any cheap weak ineffective stuff ;-)

    @Simon:

    I know of one MBA highly successful who was a regular user and one high scale (UCB Boalt Hall Law School) Lawyer who smoked all through school and law school (and many many other professionals too). It would seem that the degree of memory interaction / impairment is an individual thing. One friend laughed at me for my tendency to just go to sleep; so that, too, seems an individual reaction. Or maybe whatever makes me resistant to alcohol makes me a cheap high on MJ. Whatever. I just don’t see the benefit from paying a lot to go to sleep, so the modern stuff isn’t “my thing” (or I’d need to learn to just take one puff and wait 10 minutes to see if I need another one ;-)

    Over several years in college, minus the one trip to Denny’s where sitting next to cops is kind of a big deal…, there was only one episode of paranoia in a friend that I observed; so it really wasn’t that common. The times I’ve seen folks using “recently” have not shown anyone with paranoia at all. Lots of giggles and munchies though. So any influence from “stronger” has to be measured against “which specific kind of MJ” or “what is your reaction” near as I can tell. Then again, these were folks with the medical MJ free pass so had no legal worries hanging over their heads from getting “caught”. I’d not be at all surprised to see “paranoia” effects plummet under legalization.

  18. p.g.sharrow says:

    I find that the cannabis plant to be a fascinating pharmacopeia source from roots to tips. Every part produces different mixes of active materials. There are a half a dozen cannabinoids and over a dozen terpenes, most beneficial, available. The mix of these in a plant determined genetically with a wide range of possibilities.
    If you handle a plant’s materials and find it cloying, the mix will be beneficial to you. If revolting it will be bad for you.
    Genetics play a strong part in determining the mix of these components so cloning of the selected cultivar that produce the required mix of active ingredients is necessary. Do to the nature of the plant every seedling produces a different mix. Some mixes are detrimental to the plants survival so that is also a consideration in selection.
    The cannabis plant is strongly an annual that is length of light/darkness and age maturity dependent for it’s stage of life chemistry production. Once it starts blooming it is in a panic to make seed and protect that seed from predators, thus the cannabinoid terpene production, Generally clones start at bloom age, while seedlings need several months to mature to the bloom stage. This lends itself to faster turnover, manipulation of growth stage and consistence quality of production.
    Originally the cannabis plant was asexual with separate male and female flower parts but selection has pushed it towards separate dominate female and male plants. the all female plants being preferred as blooming causes the greatest resin production. With successful seed production the plant puts it’s energy into the seed rather then resin defenses so frustrating successful seed production is very important to maximize resin production….pg

  19. cdquarles says:

    Remember, when discussing legalization, that prior the early 20th century, all of this stuff was legal. It should all go back to that plus the awareness of the downsides from intoxication. Target intoxication, not commerce.

  20. H.R. says:

    cdquarles: “Target intoxication, not commerce.”

    I worked in manufacturing and any sort of impairment is a serious safety concern.

    After any accident that required more than first aid, we required the provider to perform drug testing. However, guys would get hurt and hide their injury, obviously because they didn’t want to get caught by the drug test.

    Drugs and alcohol, and their after effects from the night before are a serious concern in manufacturing. People get hurt and I’m sure people have died due to impairment.

    There are a lot of legal issues tied to on-the-job industrial accidents and they are still being sorted through.

  21. David A says:

    Unfortunately with Mary Jane the legalization has created strong lobbying and academic support from the elite. (Not talking about legalization advocacy but advocacy for use because of the harmless wonders of MJ)
    The academics love and heavily promote the stuff.
    My daughter in law ( PHDs Oxford and UCLA) now uses it regularly. She never touched it through high schools. All her academic friends love it. Her husband ( UC Santa Cruz) loves it and got her doing it recreationally and medicinally.
    He is well employed but socially inept, as he has zero interest in anything but video games an evening drink or two and pot. ( good job though- 150 k V.R. software engineer) The disassociation, reportedly extensively in peer review, is very strong in both of them. On a scale of 1 to 10 his interest in their one year old child is a 1, at best. She has reflected this and her disassociation has now equaled his to the point that they are incapable of raising their child. ( we have her most days, 630 am to about 5 pm) The liberal ideology combined with snow flake indoctrination combined with very strong vapor MJ is a horrible combination. In two years of use this once brilliant youth, makes inane statements and irrational decisions. Addiction to MJ is supported in many studies. The psychosis affects appear to have a genetic component as far as who suffers such affects.

    I am quite certain that with the current MJ propaganda, many more will be harmed. I am also certain that the statist youth will want you and I to pay for the fallout.

  22. Larry Ledwick says:

    That is perhaps my biggest issue with MJ – a large fraction of those who advocate for it treat it like it is some “magic potion” or a sacred ring which will cure all ills, and they are cult like in their blind advocacy.

    Yes it may have some medicinal uses, yes it was stupid for those who opposed it to treat it like some evil incarnate – but it is not harmless and it does have side effects (like all drugs) and as we see with all strong psychoactive substances, for some people and some situations it will be very destructive.

    More importantly, that cult like adoration of it results in criminal behavior little different from gold fever where some will engage in brutal violent crime to get hold of it or the money it generates (regardless of its legality).

    We as a society have a long road ahead of us with MJ to develop a mature and balanced acceptance of it along with proper recognition of its risks like many people have with social drinking.

    Part and parcel with this is a social culture that not only tolerates but promotes solving problems or escaping with some sort of a magic pill, like ecstasy or bath salts or other designer drugs too many people are too willing to indulge blindly without acknowledging the negatives or dangers associated with uncontrolled self medication. It matters little if it is a relatively benign chemical like caffeine, or a fashionable drug like MJ, or a dead end escape drug like the hard opiates all can be abused and cause medical and social issues if over used or inappropriately used.

  23. David A says:

    Thank you for your comment Larry.

  24. gallopingcamel says:

    I feel such a square given that my instinct is to avoid all drugs including the ones my doctor wants me to take.

    Yet I drink 250 ml of scotch per day which may account for some of my loose cannon blogging and my absurd optimism.

  25. gallopingcamel says:

    IMHO the federal government has no constitutional authority over alcohol or “Recreational Drugs” in spite of the Volstead Act (18th Amendment).

    Under the constitution each state should be able to decide what substances cannot be consumed legally within its jurisdiction.

  26. gallopingcamel says:

    @David A,
    That is a sad story but it gibes with my observations of friends and family who have embraced recreational drugs. My aversion to such drugs (perhaps fear would be a better word) comes from similar situations that have played out around me. Strangely enough I am the only member of my family who comes close to qualifying as an “Alcoholic”.

    I am impressed by the fact that Donald Trump does not drink alcohol and I am even more impressed that his affection for his brother is likely a major factor. This is a president who really cares about people.

  27. M Simon says:

    jim2,

    By keeping things underground you are already paying for addicts.

    A look at addiction might be useful. There is no such thing as addiction.

    People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.

    We call those people who have no conventional source of pain “addicts”. The pain? Mostly PTSD. Which long term (over a year) is caused by genetics. Short term PTSD affects everyone. So our drug war is a war on the genetically different (about 20% of the population – about 1/2 of those get enough trauma to initiate the problem). Ever notice how “addiction” seems to run in families?

    You cannot stop “addiction” by curtailing the flow of drugs. You have to do something about the pain.

    Well the DEA has a nice business model ( for a government job ). Fight a problem that does not exist and leave the real problem untouched.

    BTW the major cause of PTSD in America? Child abuse.

  28. M Simon says:

    So yeah – a war on abused children. Very Christian.

  29. M Simon says:

    Addiction doc says: It’s not the drugs. It’s the ACEs…adverse childhood experiences.

    https://acestoohigh.com/2017/05/02/addiction-doc-says-stop-chasing-the-drug-focus-on-aces-people-can-recover/

  30. M Simon says:

    My first article on the subject was about 12 or 15 years ago. I identified trauma and genetics as the cause of “addiction”. So far the idea has not caught on except in some isolated areas? Why? Too much profit in the “drugs cause addiction” model.

    Who advertises pain treatment a a way to combat “addiction”? I’m still waiting for the TV ads. Why won’t you see such ads? Well, drugs may be indicated. LOL.

    BTW look up the symptoms of PTSD. They look a lot like the symptoms of “addiction”. In fact one of the symptoms of PTSD is “addiction”. LOL.

  31. David A says:

    I stated, ” Unfortunately with Mary Jane the legalization has created strong lobbying and academic support from the elite. (Not talking about legalization advocacy but advocacy for use because of the harmless wonders of MJ)”
    Exhibit A… https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2018/01/01/riding-cannabus-cnn-aids-stoners-gas-mask-bong-rips

  32. philjourdan says:

    @David A – Re: Socially Inept.

    I had to laugh at that. I was at a party way back in the day, and the “husband” of an old friend button holed me because he wanted to know how the real world was. His occupation? college Prof.

    He was very inept in every sense of the word. Nice guy, but he made Sheldon Cooper look like a social butterfly.

  33. David A says:

    Well at least Sheldon is amusing.
    (-;

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