Why I like listening to Fringe Voices… Sometimes they point you at things you would otherwise not see.
Yes, driving across the country in the dead of night I like to listen to Coast To Coast AM on the radio. They have all sorts of kooks and nuts and other interesting folks on talking Crazy Talk that will literally “keep you awake at night”. That is, after all, the whole point when driving through the Arizona Desert at 3 AM …
Does that mean I believe that Space Aliens abducted someone’s poodle or that drinking coffee both causes and cures cancer? Nope, not at all. I DO believe it is entertaining, and that’s the whole point.
But from time to time a topic will be raised that causes a certain curiosity. Is there, in fact, some amount of truth to the “Story”? Occasionally there is. Those moments are their own special kind of experience. Discovering that something your bias originally wanted to toss in the BS Bucket is, in fact, grounded in reality. I’ve had many over the decades of driving coast to coast with Coast To Coast AM. (I liked it a lot when Art Bell was The Guy. George Noori is OK but not quite the same.)
So why bring this up?
I was following a chain of links that started with the Whatfinger site:
Which lead to the Lindell free speech site:
And under their TV tab a newsy show with an energetic talking head, Stew Peters:
He wanders around over a whole lot of turf in an hour and 11 minutes, while talking very fast and being a bit more excitable than my usual choices. But it was entertaining so I listened.
In there somewhere there’s a claim that airline pilots are dropping from side effects of the Covid shot interacting with blood clots and the stresses of flying an airplane.
Remember that Airline Pilots are given VERY frequent physical exams and must be in top physical condition to continue to fly. So claiming BOAC had 4 of them croak at about the same time would be a Big Deal if it were true. These are folks where “dropping dead on the job” can result in hundreds dead, so a great deal of effort goes into assuring that is an extremely rare event verging on non-existent.
Which got me wondering:
“IF that were true, seems like it would be known.”
So I went looking. Oddly, found confirmation at a site claiming to debunk the claim…
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-aviation-idUSL2N2NZ1ZO
Basically says ~”Yes, it happened. 4 dropped dead almost at one time after the jab. But not to worry, it isn’t proven to be from the experimental shot. These things happen…”
Shared in the form of a voice recording on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, an unidentified male says he has spoken to a “friend who’s a BA pilot” and explains “things are getting crazy” after three fellow pilots passed away (here , here and here).
“They’ve had the third BA pilot die in the last seven days, yeah? Third pilot dead in the last week,” says the man heard in the recording. “The first two guys were in their forties and fifties; this guy, mid-thirties, perfectly fit, no underlying conditions. He gets his second jab and he’s dead within days, exactly the same with the first two.
“Because of this, BA are now in crisis talks with the government about whether to allow vaccinated pilots to fly. The issue with that of course is that about 80%, according to my friend in BA, 80-85% have been injected.”
[…]
Reuters presented the claims to British Airways, which said they were unfounded and that no such talks were underway with the government. The spokesperson, however, confirmed the authenticity of the four condolence books, as four company pilots had recently passed away. “Our thoughts are with their family and friends,” they said, adding that none of the deaths was linked to vaccines.In a statement to Reuters, the UK’s Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) also denied any such crisis talks with Britain’s flagship air carrier.
“We have not been made aware of deaths of BA pilots after receiving the Covid-19 vaccine and have not had discussions with BA or other airlines, about preventing pilots from flying after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine,” said Dr. Sarah Branch, the director of vigilance and risk management of medicines for the MHRA. “There are currently no restrictions on aviation or other industries and activities post vaccination.
So, OK… This “denial / confirmation” confirms the basic facts of the vaccinations and the deaths. But just denies that they are having panic talks about it. So if you just sweep stuff under the rug and ignore it that makes it false? OK…
You just gotta luv the way they dance around the reality of Dead Pilots to “debunk” the “claim” that the company is in “panic talks” about the Dead Pilots. Why panic? Why talk about it? We’re happy to just ignore it… /snark;
Four is such a small number. Think of the majority who didn’t die…(yet?)…
Besides, anyone who died from the jab can fill out a Yellow Card… /sarc;
“Our advice remains that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks in the majority of people. It is still vitally important that people come forward for their vaccination and for their second dose when invited to do so.
“We ask anyone who suspects they have experienced a side effect linked with their COVID-19 vaccine to report it to the Coronavirus Yellow Card website.”
VERDICT
False. British Airways is not in “crisis talks” with the British government about vaccinated pilots. Four pilots have recently died – and British Airways says none of these is linked to vaccines.This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our work to fact-check social media posts here .
Thanks, Reuters, for confirming the basic truth of the dead pilots and all that; while turning yourself inside out to “debunk” that anyone at the Airline is in “crisis talks” about it as they are busy sweeping it under the rug.
And that’s why I listen to Fringe Voices. Sometimes they point at interesting things once you “Dig Here!” a little.
Memorial Display To 4 Dead Pilots
“Nothing to see here folks… move along, move along…”
Musings from the Chiefio 
Was it AstraZeneca? That one always was dodgy.
In my area of South West England there are some 140000 people, a good proportion are retired. The vaccination rate is about 90%.
We have numerous coffee shops, meeting places, Lively social media, two lively local newspapers, parks with many benches, a large hospital.
If anything unusual had been going on regarding many deaths after vaccination, it is impossible to believe it would have escaped the notice of those gossiping in the coffee shops, at work, in the social media or meeting for a chat on the benches. The hospital is quiet and asking people whose treatment may have been postponed to come forward. There is no inordinate number of funerals.
Currently ‘excess’ deaths’ for April and May are at their lowest ever level.
I have been very sceptical about the way that covid has been exaggerated or made worse by govt action but similarly this constant fuss about vaccinations causing as many deaths as covid did at its peak has no basis in facts.
BA says 4 pilots did die, but not from the vaccine. I’ll stay tuned to the same bat-channel, same bat-time.
climatereason says: 22 June 2021 at 4:39 pm
“this constant fuss about vaccinations causing as many deaths as covid did at its peak has no basis in facts”
That is NOT what it is about.
Historically even 200 deaths associated with an Immunisation programme would be enough to get it shut down.
Currently in the US it is approaching 6000 and in the EU the last figure I remember was around 12000.
In the UK the numbers are in the tens, so how are we getting away with so few Adverse affect deaths compared to the US and the EU?
The US 6,000 number is from the VAERS database which has no controls over what is entered. The data isn’t verified. Any adverse effects or deaths are not verified in the database itself to be due to COVID vaccinations.
VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences to CDC and FDA. VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem, but is especially useful for detecting unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse event reporting that might indicate a possible safety problem with a vaccine.
https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html
A C Osborn
Have you got a reputable source for those figures i.e not derived from twitter or the wilder reaches of the internet?
Having said that hundreds of millions of jabs have now been made in the EU and statistically deaths are likely via a variety of natural causes as well as anything defintely caused by the vaccine.
And why is no-one giving us official figures for vaccine events? You’d think a set of vaccines under emergency protocols would have, AS PART OF THAT PROTOCOL, proper event recording and investigation. Not voluntary. Rigorous.
RK – I certainly would like to have some solid numbers on vaccine events. I’ll have to go fish on that one at some point.
For public awareness and in the interest of transparency, CDC is providing timely updates on the following serious adverse events of interest:
Anaphylaxis after COVID-19 vaccination is rare and has occurred in approximately 2 to 5 people per million vaccinated in the United States. Severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, can occur after any vaccination. If this occurs, vaccination providers can effectively and immediately treat the reaction. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis.
Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) after Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen (J&J/Janssen) COVID-19 vaccination is rare. As of June 14, 2021, more than 11.7 million doses of the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine have been given in the United States. CDC and FDA identified 36 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and later developed TTS. Women younger than 50 years old especially should be aware of the rare but increased risk of this adverse event. There are other COVID-19 vaccine options available for which this risk has not been seen. Learn more about J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS.
To date, one confirmed case of TTS following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Moderna) has been reported to VAERS after more than 310 million doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines administered in the United States. Based on available data, there is not an increased risk for TTS after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.
Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. As of June 14, 2021, VAERS has received 511 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 and younger who received COVID-19 vaccine. Most cases have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), particularly in male adolescents and young adults. Through follow-up, including medical record reviews, CDC and FDA have confirmed 323 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis. CDC and its partners are investigating these reports to assess whether there is a relationship to COVID-19 vaccination. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and myocarditis.
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 310 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through June 14, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 5,343 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
… and nobody got autism from the Covid vaccines /sarc
The normal EULA has rigorous reporting requirements. One of the indica of WT? is that for these “vaccines”, that was waved (or ignored).
Part of the problem is that there are a LOT of “side effects” as you get various immunological and blood events spread around the body, variable by case, and often with a time delay as the immune system takes time to activate.
Things like just now we’re finding out there’s 240 teen males with heart inflammation hospitalized. A disease that essentially no teens ever get. Not yet reaching public consciousness as we are only now recognizing it exists.
@Climatereason:
I’ve not heard anyone say that the jabs were causing as many deaths as “covid at its peak”. I have heard folks say “may cause more in kids than the disease causes” which is more plausible as kids are about 99.997% survive the disease.
(I’m not saying you did not hear that somewhere from someone, but it’s not been in what I’ve seen and I’ve read fairly broadly).
@Jim2:
How can they know that it was not as a consequence of the vaccination when we know that there’s a lot of mis-diagnosis?
They can’t. Not unless a very detailed investigation were done on a large cohort of vaccinated people. That is, until they do the kinds of studies that would normally be done to prove a drug safe and effective. Work that has not been done.
Note that I’m not saying we know it IS a problem either. I’m saying it isn’t possible to know. But there are a lot of “strange reports” that seem out of kilter with what we’ve heard after other approved drugs were rolled out. (Like flu vaccine et. al.)
If I recall correctly, a typical development period for a vaccine is what, 5-10 years?To my understanding, the long development period is not likely to be an issue of acute toxicity. It would be long term effects. (In this case, the issue of fertility is certainly an unanswered question.)
Reuters Fact Check(tm): There are no long term side effects.
EMS – I do believe “they” are saying only that the data in VAERS is unverified. Presumably, they would begin to investigate the alleged vaccine effect n VAERS.
Apparently, participants in the original clinical trials will be monitored for 2 years.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccine-monitoring-idUSKBN2AC2G3
For the record, I think your approach, given all we know and IANAI (immunologist), of using IVM as a weekly prophylactic is probably the safest safeguard against COVID.
How can you prove that anything is safe? Limiting this to drugs, what drug has zero side effects? Even water is dangerous if too much or too little is taken. And the medical track record is not good. It is said that half of the scientific medical papers published are wrong. Poor use of statistics results in the wrong conclusions, not to mention poor study design. For most drugs, many have taken them before you need them, providing some comfort that the effects are known. For this drug, you are the guinea pig.
Flying and Covid vaccines? We know flying increases clotting risk. We know Covid and some vaccines increase clotting risk. Put the two together? Your guess is as good as mine.
https://www.healthline.com/health/blood-clots-and-flying
The knee-jerk reaction is always to deny, and perhaps that is usually right in the end, but it is wrong to not look into suspect cases thoroughly, just in case.
Um, myocarditis and pericarditis in teen males is most definitely known, yet rare. Some drop dead from it. Many, but not all, of these cases are from natural infections (such as via gingivitis!). Wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocarditis, be aware of its limits. Hmm, there is that Coxsackie B virus again. Given the rarity and that the immune system is involved, seeing this as an adverse incident after *any* vaccine is possible; and for some, the covid jab will be the cause if a large enough number get the injection.
The way to read the Reuters article is hat they basically affirmed the original article. Unlike real journalism (hard to find), they take a couple of facts and then lie about them.
You will be right more often than not by going against their “conclusions”.
Somewhat O/ this thread
“Google funds virus research too, and with the same man who channeled money to Wuhan”
https://joannenova.com.au/2021/06/google-funds-virus-research-too-and-with-the-same-man-who-channeled-money-to-wuhan/
And
“From The Spectator
Covid’s warped vaccines
Highly credentialled whiste-blowers sound a warning”
https://joannenova.com.au/2021/06/tuesday-open-thread-61/#comment-2436582
Well that didn’t take long. They edited their page quite quickly.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/world-health-organization-says-do-not-give-children-experimental-coronavirus-vaccine-shots
FWIW but not sounding good either
” “This therapy … is reasonably suspected of having killed thousands of people and created serious injury in tens of thousands” ”
https://catallaxyfiles.com/2021/06/22/this-therapy-is-reasonably-suspected-of-having-killed-thousands-of-people-and-created-serious-injury-in-tens-of-thousands/
@CDQuarles:
“almost unknown” and “certainly known, but rare” differ only in which side of data point you are looking from.
For a cardiologist, they would see it as something to watch for and known. For my high school PE class, it was entirely unknown. For a typical parent with internet skills, they may have heard of it before in old guys, but likely it is “almost unknown” to them in teens.
Yes, it would be better to have an actual age bounded prevalence. Most folks don’t work that way.
Not so to mine, though; out most gracious host. Even way back then, you had to have a physical and be cleared for PE. That was the way out of those required classes, provided you did have a qualifying medical condition. I am guessing that at some point this happened to a student in real life and the lesson was not only learned, but not forgotten (yet).
For contemplation
“jorgekafkazar
Reply to
Eisenhower
June 22, 2021 5:20 pm
The nickname for the New York Times, “Old Grey Lady” is an anagram of “really dodgy.” Pure coincidence? Or cosmic joke?”
In comments at
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Here’s another Reuter’s article ‘debunking’ the belief that the mRNA shots are cytotoxic.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP
They are referring to a 15 minute video (link in article, but I think it’s been posted here before). They cite a recent article (June 4th) saying “The spike proteins from mRNA vaccines are not known to harm our bodies.” The spike protein is supposed to mimic the spike protein on the virus, and a recent study showed that the spike protein by itself (with no viral load) is enough to be harmful. So why wouldn’t a spike protein made by your body to mimic the actual spike protein at least be somewhat harmful?
They also say it doesn’t leave the injection site, but a Japanese study (The Bio-Distribution Study) found otherwise, and it found high concentrations in ovaries.
Click to access 672212000_30300AMX00231_I100_1.pdf
(most of this is in Japanese, but the chart on concentrations in organs on page 12 is in English). The article also includes an infographic that doesn’t seem very accurate.
After reading the Reuter’s article, I’m less convinced of the safety of the vaccine than I was before reading the article.
“I showed her this link: Fans who had AstraZeneca vaccine won’t be allowed into Bruce Springsteen’s New York concerts
https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/fans-had-astrazeneca-vaccine-won-070131015.html ”
https://catallaxyfiles.com/2021/06/23/a-virus-so-bad-hardly-anyone-knows-they-have-it/#comment-3895905
And
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200422/Lifting-the-lid-on-coronavirus-flatulence.aspx
AI – I did read that the mRNA produced spike is stiff whereas the natural one can change conformation. This change in shape is necessary for the spike to “dock” to the cell. At least, that’s what I read. So, they aren’t identical in form and function to the natural ones.
jim2 says: 22 June 2021 at 6:44 pm
“The US 6,000 number is from the VAERS database which has no controls over what is entered. ”
Yes we know that, but the same conditions applied to all the historical entries for all the other Vaccines, which have miniscule numbers compared to COVID vaccines.
And as they rightly say the Mortality rates are still very very low statistically.
But numbers wise they far exceed anything seen before because the old Vaccination programmes were stopped after 20 or 30 deaths.
It is the change in procedure that is the big question here.
ACO. So the situation is out of 34 million cases of covid there have been 600,000 deaths in the US. A 150 million people have been vaccinated twice, 170 million once, and we MAY or MAY NOT have 6,000 deaths from that. And the death rate is lowest since March of 2020, so there’s also that to think about.
Jin2 quotes… “ FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.”
I do not know how a sentence could be more unclear, except that it is definitely wrong.
Problem number one is the lack of definition of a time frame for after the jab. The next problem is that with near fifty percent of the nation vaccinated, how come only 6000 deaths are recorded. I think about 8000 people die daily in the US. So there are about 4000 vaccinated that die daily, so clearly the vast majority never get reported!
This and a number of other statements make me think the “ official “ explain away stories may be tall tales. Regarding the pilot deaths, it is certainly suspicious that a death event that has never occurred in any airline occurs like this, with the death cause being a commonly reported symptom of adverse reactions. Such blanket dismissal of any relationship to the vaccine is clearly denial.
The fact that the spike protein becomes systemic and, more easily then the wuflu spike protein, penetrates the blood brain barrier, is vey worrisome.
The fact that they stopped testing the vaccinated, after over 10,000 crossover cases, is indicative of biased and political objectives.
The fact that they lowered the test cycles very significantly day one of Biden’s presidency is indicative of political objectives.
One state reports 4000 crossover infections, and the emphasize how many millions were vaccinated in that state. Yet they do not indicate how many of those vaccinated were tested. More political objectives?
Indeed, almost nothing the CDC or WHO has done appears to be free of political objectives.
DA – Yes, the VAERS system let’s anyone report just about anything. That way, they don’t miss as many problems, but there is more noise.
Here is the where the follow-up occurs in response to VAERS and other incoming information.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.html
If anyone has time on their hands, a deeper dive can be had there.
@Jim2:
The VAERS system will not record most events. The bulk of folks with modest issues will not report them (and likely doesn’t even know it exists). Those that die are largely being attributed to some other cause than the shot (especially if it happens a week or 3 later).
This is why Emergency Use is supposed to come with complete reporting by the medical practitioners. Covid shots are not having that done (why? would be interesting to know…).
So say someone gets the shot, then 3 weeks later dies from cardiac arrest or stroke. Think that death is going to be reported as a vaccine event? Or more likely to just be reported as a heart attack or stroking out?
The reality is that we have no idea how many people are dying from vaccination consequences. We do know “excess deaths” are about the same. But does that just mean with everyone working from home, not going anywhere, and wearing masks; that the reduction in car accidents and other communicable disease deaths is about the same as the increase from the shots? (In which case, why bother…)
Then there is the entirely unknown risk of ADE “going forward”. Are we creating a class of folks who will be dependent, FOR LIFE, on “booster shots” to keep antibody levels high enough to be “neutralizing” just so they don’t drop to the low level of antibodies where ADE causes them to die? Antibody Dependent Enhancement has been a feature of very other attempt at a corona virus vaccine. Humans seem to have evolved an effective non-antibody “innate immunity” process to deal with corona viruses, and this shot deliberately bypasses it. We will find out if that was a bright idea or a lethal one in about a year…
I hope that the efforts to craft a semi-spike protein were good enough to avoid both the spike protein damage AND the ADE effect. Evidence to date is that in some people the spike protein damage in minimal, and in some others dramatic. If that range carries over into ADE, we will have a wave of deaths (likely to be attributed to a “New Variant” rather than vaccination and ADE…) in the next “wave” of infections.
So is the India Variant (“delta”) really more lethal? Or is it just spreading in places with high vaccination rates? We don’t have the data to know…
@E.M. “The reality is that we have no idea how many people are dying from vaccination consequences. ”
True… and we STILL don’t know how many people actually died from the COVID virus; all we know is that the official figure says 600,000. We also know with metaphysical certainty that number is totally unreliable based on any previous definitions of pandemic deaths.
If it were a case of national security, information is available to The Powers That Be on where any individual citizen travels, to whom he speaks, most of what he eats, where and how much he spends, and what property he possesses. If the data on COVID deaths, cases, and vaccine damage rates is unavailable it is strictly and absolutely because TPTB do not want it available.
We do know states are lifting restrictions. Some have been lifted for months. We should be seeing cases go up, but they aren’t. There’s always the uncertainty about testing protocols. But if you consider all the uncertainties, you can’t say much at all one way or another.
@Jim2:
Back in January some States were wide open, others hard locked down. The only difference I’ve seen over that time period is that the wide open States seem to have done better.
As I’ve said a few times before:
In Arizona I had a sit down dinner in a restaurant with nobody wearing masks.
In Texas to Florida Panhandle, going into Walmart and other grocery stores or gas stations, I saw about a 20% to 50% mask wearing. Clearly a LOT of the population was blowing off the “advice”.
In Orlando, Florida Friend and I had a Looong night at the Beers Of The World (where some of us met before) with none of the customers wearing masks.
In Washington, I was in the middle of 1/4 Million of my Closest Strangers with essentially NO masks being worn and a LOT of shouting and cheering going on.
Despite all that, no “spike in cases” was seen. The big Goose Egg.
I got nothing. People around me got nothing. No “surge” seen.
So given that, I don’t see how “opening up” a State now can possibly have any negative impact. Everybody is likely already exposed.
An investigation into the backgrounds of these pilots:
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/mystery-of-four-ba-pilot-deaths-after-covid-vaccine/
The bottom line: “BA refuse to say whether the pilots had received a Covid-19 vaccine on not.”