“Spanish” Flu, Antigenic Sin, Origins, And Now?

This video surprised me, in several ways.

First, I was looking for some distraction from current events, and I got a reminder of them (along with some usable clue – A leaky vaccine is likely to leave the “jabbed” with Original Antigenic Sin to later variants).

Second, I was not expecting At All the actual origin of the “Spanish Flu” that was found. It came from horses in North America.

Third, I expected a dry technical lecture, I got a fascinating story or two about humanity. Plus a chuckle about German Cowboys invading Canada…

Forth, I thought I knew why 20-30 year old folks died the most. Cytokine Storm from a young and well working immune system. That’s wrong. It was a case of Original Antigenic Sin.

Fifth, I had no idea that the round of H1N1 flu from a few years back was a Lab Leak, most likely from China or Russia, yet its genetic clock was stopped at 1950…

Sixth, What beats mutating viruses with low efficacy vaccines is therapeutics.

Plus a few more…

Well worth the watching of it. Given the nature of Original Antigenic Sin, I suspect that for Chinese Wuhan Covid it will be the case that the first antibodies you make are the ones you will most likely have for life. Once the virus changes enough, they will do little, and then you have a Very Bad Case. It is possible that Covid is unlike Flu in that we make antibodies to the H and N projections of flu, and the body of Covid plus the spike; so there is still a small chance of what I’d call “antibody stacking” with adding more over time. But the example of Original Antigenic Sin in the flu leans the other way.

The other conclusion is that, yes, a leaky vaccine selects for variants that escape the vaccine (and the vaccine antibodies) but IF Original Antigenic Sin is happening with Chinese Wuhan Covid, we would likely still get there anyway. Just a lot slower. It will all come down to how effectively folks make antibodies to the N capsule parts of the virus, IMHO.

I’m also looking at the Flu Vaccine as being not very useful to me. I likely have been exposed to the two major variations already. This video is from 2014, or 7 years ago, which puts me in a cohort who was originally exposed to the 1957 strain, but also has been exposed to H1N1 (and likely a couple of others). My immune system has already made its choices and a jab is unlikely to change them. That may be why I’ve not had the flu in about 30 years and had zero reaction to the one flu shot I got about 5 years ago. I’m just “so over it” ;-)

The number killed each year by flu also shouts “What the he.. happened to the Flu last year?”…

One hour and 8 minutes:

The University of Arizona
41.1K subscribers
Michael Worobey, Professor, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, The University of Arizona

The Spanish influenza pandemic of 1918 was the most intense outbreak of disease in human history. It killed upwards of 50 million people (most in a six-week period) casting a long shadow of fear and mystery: nearly a century later, scientists have been unable to explain why, unlike all other influenza outbreaks, it killed young adults in huge numbers. I will describe how analyses of large numbers of influenza virus genomes are revealing the pathway traveled by the genes of this virus before it exploded in 1918. What emerges is a surprising tale with many players and plot lines, in which echoes of prior pandemics, imprinted in the immune responses of those alive in 1918, set the stage for the catastrophe. I will also discuss how resolving the mysteries of 1918 could help to prevent future pandemics and to control seasonal influenza, which quietly kills millions more every decade.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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45 Responses to “Spanish” Flu, Antigenic Sin, Origins, And Now?

  1. pouncer says:

    There was a conjecture floating around a few months back that the Spanish Flu happened to coincide with the expiration dates of Bayer’s patent on the (then expensive) drug, Aspirin. When aspirin suddenly became cheap, and numbers of feverish patients presented, overdoses became very common.

    Conjecture, I say. And lately I haven’t backtracked to verify details. But it seemed plausible enough at the time I first heard it.

  2. AC Osborn says:

    EM, remember the recent Young paper on contaminated COVID vaccines, it is not new news..
    I was looking at the data on the stainless steel in the Moderna vax in Japan and came across this 2017 paper on contamination in 44 vaccines.


    They found all sorts of nano particles in all of the vaccines.

  3. H.R. says:

    @AC Osborn – It never occurred to me before, but I would not be a bit surprised if nanoparticles of stainless steel were found in every can of soup or canned veggies or bottle of Coca-Cola.

    Machines wear. From time to time, I’ll read about a food recall because a component of the processing machinery failed catastrophically and bits and pieces got into whatever foodstuff they were processing. But every metal-to-metal moving part in a machine is wearing down and shedding particles of the metal that it’s made from.

    Solutions with non-neutral pH are eroding the piping, albeit very slowly.

    Every piece of machinery I’ve ever worked with, the moving parts wear. Lubrication slows down wear, but moving parts wear.

    So I’m not surprised that someone looking for nanoparticles would find nanoparticles in machine processed, mass produced solutions.

    In a lab, you don’t get that. There is the glassware or stainless steel containers (mostly glassware) and solutions are poured or drawn from container to container; no moving parts to speak of. I would be surprised if nanoparticles were found in lab-sized batches, even if someone was looking for nanoparticles.

    Having read the study you linked to, AC O, the thing that I noticed is that they did not analyze the saline solution (and another solution I can’t recall the name of) as the null. Those solutions were no doubt machine processed. Maybe they did check their carrier solutions and I missed it. But I saw some Fe-something in almost every vaccine tested.

    They were testing samples of mass produced vaccines. They weren’t looking at lab samples. At the elemental level they were screening at, I’d expect them to find something shed during processing, and I’m seeing bits and pieces of the things processing machinery is made of.

    I’m not commenting on whether or not the contaminants they found caused the health problems and negative reactions that led to this investigation. I’m just saying that at the scale they were looking at, it’s no surprise to me that they found those contaminants, and some could have come from the carrier solutions.

  4. AC Osborn says:

    Some of them are known to cause problems when inside the human body.
    But without knowing levels it is hard to know whether they are dangerous.

  5. E.M.Smith says:

    @AC O:

    I’m with HR on this one. Pumps, pipes, valves, stirring impellers all wear and will shed nano sized particles.

    Spouse has an allergy to medical stainless steel (had an implanted bit once, now can’t wear stainless steel jewelry made with medical stainless steel) so IMHO is “at risk” of a bad reaction to The Jab just from that. But for most people probably not a problem.

    They used SEM to find them. Depending on how close you look, a scanning electron microscope can let you inspect down to about 10 nm. I’d expect things to shed a lot at that size.


    May not need overdoses. Fever is how your body fights bacteria and viruses. Suppressing a fever may feel better but unless you are up at about 105 F+ is a bad idea. Pushing fever down with Aspirin will prolong the disease and have worse outcomes. So if suddenly off patent and then widely used, would have made it a little worse than otherwise.

    But that doesn’t explain the large number of deaths, it isn’t that strong an effect.

  6. Laurie Arnold says:

    Yes,I’ve followed Worobey’s research & that video is excellent. There is evidence that H1N1 (yes, the Taubenberger “flavor” may have accidentally leaked from Australia in Fall 2019. The AU/US/UK military games had an unusual number of influenza cases.Then the Wuhan games seems to have nicely spread the novel SARS-CoV2. Such a coincidence. Watch: https://rumble.com/vlb1jw-could-you-hide-one-pandemic-behind-another-pandemic.html If it sparks your interest to possibly discuss further, you can reach out to John. iamjohncullen@protonmail.com He is simply tracking the CDC & NCHS data and it’s quite interesting.

  7. cdquarles says:

    Hmm, I do have a vague memory of aspirin overdoses being an issue, back then. While aspirin does have a wide therapeutic window, it does poison mitochondria at a high enough dose (via disrupting oxidative phosphorylation). I am not sure if the patent business made a difference.

    An issue with biologicals is that their potency varies widely. Then there is biological mimicry; so you cannot be certain that you always pick the correct plant.

    Also, coal and oil saved the forests and the whales ;). I can imagine the pressure on medicinal plants that we couldn’t easily grow on large plots, over time.

  8. cdquarles says:

    That all said, for influenza, it isn’t that dangerous directly. A major part of the associated morbidity and mortality is the secondary bacterial pneumonias. Back then, there were no specific antibiotics available. It was a few years afterwards, I think and if I am remembering correctly, that penicillin was discovered.

  9. gareth says:

    Hi EM,

    Interesting viewing, two points:

    At ~6:42 (after a scary reportage sequence) he shows a slide of deaths per year, all causes & infectious diseases. OK, you can clearly see a peak in 1918 BUT – halt it and look – it’s not that much higher than at the beginning of the timeline (1900), maybe +25% for infectious and ~+10% all causes. That indicates that, yes 1918 was bad, but not terrible; just a bit worse. Not the four horsemen, just some bloke with an extra donkey…

    At 20:00 he says (re 1918 flu) “the worst epidemic of disease that humanity has ever faced”. This is clearly untrue when you compare 1918 with prior plagues.So, interesting though it was, his presentation suffered from just the same doom bias as most of what we see in the msm about The Covid.

    We need to remember that we are mortal and will all die of something – and more likely something that’s not flu and not The Covid. And, as any good priest will tell you: If you want eternal life turn to Christ :-)

    (and even then, it’s a hope, not a guarantee)


    (still reading and enjoying yer blog after all these years)

  10. Paul, Somerset says:

    I posted the following on another blog a couple of months ago, to see whether anyone could point out any flaws in my reasoning. No one did. It’s the reason I’ve never submitted to a flu or Covid vaccination.

    “We know that repeated flu shots against the same strain can leave people unable to deal with sufficiently mutated influenza viruses, as the immune system becomes trained to create antibodies specific to that one original strain. If it encounters a virus that’s drifted too far from the one against which you’ve been repeatedly vaccinated, the immune response is inadequate, but the body refuses to generate the correct antibodies (the Hoskins effect – “Recent observations have provided convincing evidence that reduced vaccine effectiveness after sequential influenza vaccination is a real phenomenon.”)


    And we know that repeated flu shots also leave you unable to deal with some coronaviruses (“a randomized placebo-controlled trial in children showed that flu shots increased fivefold the risk of acute respiratory infections caused by a group of noninfluenza viruses, including coronaviruses.”)


    Why might this happen? Well, we have discovered that the relationship between influenza and corona viruses is close enough for healthy unvaccinated people to be protected from the SARS-CoV-2 virus by means of previous influenza infection (“our findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 reactive T-cells are likely to be present in many individuals because of prior exposure to flu and CMV viruses.”)


    In other words, a natural flu infection in the past offers protection against the current SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus in people whose immune systems are in working order. BUT, I’m hypothesizing that repeated flu vaccinations result in the patient’s immune system treating this coronavirus as a severely mutated flu virus, and being unable to mount an adequate, coronavirus-specific defence against it. The Hoskins effect again.

    I wonder whether it works the other way round too – repeated coronavirus vaccinations leaving you unable to tackle a flu infection. Let’s hope not. It would be an epic disaster this winter if that were so.”

  11. Paul, Somerset says:

    If you do a search for “Flu Vaccine—Too Much of a Good Thing?”, you’ll find the PDF of an excellent three-page article from the Journal of Infectious Diseases detailing the same concerns as our host. (The hyperlink is very long.)

    It points out that “the greatest negative effect of prior vaccination occurred in the 2014-15 season, when the prior and current vaccines were the same, and the circulating virus was a poor antigenic match.”

  12. E.M.Smith says:

    @Paul, Somerset:

    I see nothing wrong in your reasoning or understanding.

    FWIW, I had the Flu Shot in 2015 as it was being pushed by Disney for employees and contractors. Nothing at all happened. It is the ONLY flu shot I’ve ever had. All the others I took as they came, from the 1957 OMG! 106 F fever on… I’ve come to the conclusion that Flu Shots are a bit of a racket. At least as far as I’m concerned.

    That is part of why I’m not doing the Covid vexxine. I’m likely already immune and do NOT need to be confusing my rather well working immune system with a partial spike bit-o-crap.


    I’m generally more interested in certified strength and tested efficacy pharmaceuticals than I am in “herbals”. My major interest is in an EOTWAWKI scenario where you are FORCED to depend on yourself and there is no drug industry.

    That said, the drug industry has, lately, shown itself to be horribly immoral and evil. So my interests are starting to broaden into “and if they are lying what do you do?” territory…


    Exactly! Part of my willingness to be in “The Vaccine Control Group” (AKA Ivermectin R Us) is just that, substantially, “I’ve lived my life”. I’m just a year or two from 70. Getting to over 80 would be nice, but not expected nor guaranteed. Who is better suited to test the efficacy of therapeutics for my grandchildren than me? Eh? If it works on me, they have a Slam Dunk. (Kids somewhere in the middle).

    I’m going to die of something, and highly likely in the next decade, or remotely, 2 decades. Not going to worry about if it is 8 years, 18 years, or 8 months. Just going to enjoy the ride while it lasts and hope I can leave behind something useful.

    OTOH, I’m not about to trust my longevity (or lack thereof) to the lying cheating money grubbing bastards that are in control of D.C., California, or the Drug Companies. I know they want me dead and my assets extracted in the process. They have said so (sometimes in words, often in actions). So I’ll take door #2, thank you very much, and ride it out on a wagon built of Self Reliance. “I have a brain and I know how to use it. Suck wind.” to them. IF I die from a decision, well then, I’ve provided valuable information to the kids and grand kids. Better than dying sucking on a Government teat. (Bravery gets easier as you get older and crankier ;-)

  13. jim2 says:

    In what (approximate) year did this happen?

    The combination of rigid control and disregard for truth had dangerous consequences. Focusing on the shortest term, local officials almost universally told half-truths or outright lies … They were assisted—not challenged—by the press, which although not censored in a technical sense cooperated fully with the government’s propaganda machine.


  14. jim2 says:

    I’ve been wondering something about the H3N8 flu that made 28 year olds susceptible to to the Spanish Flu (H1N1).

    So the 28 year old cohort was primed to respond quickly to H3N8.

    Did that fact mean the H1N1 strain was a serotype? Or did the immune system recognize it as generalized flu and just crank out H3N8 antibodies? It could be they died so fast because their immune system couldn’t respond fast enough with H1N1 antibodies, no?

    I haven’t seen any papers that determined if 28 year olds who survived Spanish flu went on to develop long term immunity to H1N1.

    This is a curiosity question. I just haven’t found definitive proof that the reaction of 28 year olds was due to the Hoskins effect. The Devil is always in the details.

  15. YMMV says:

    @jim2, good article.
    “Truth and falsehood are arbitrary terms…. There is nothing in experience to tell us that one is always preferable to the other…. The force of an idea lies in its inspirational value. It matters very little if it is true or false” ~1917

    I was curious if the composition or dosage of Aspirin had changed since 1917. But given the condition of the flu patients then, it wouldn’t have made much difference. But along the way I picked up a few things.
    “In 1915 aspirin became available to the public without a prescription, making it arguably the first modern, synthetic, over-the-counter, mass-market medicine and a household name around the world.”
    “it has been shown to be useful in the treatment of a variety of conditions beyond fever and pain, including prevention of coronary artery disease, heart attack, and stroke. Recent studies suggest that aspirin may also limit the rate of growth and the occurrence of certain types of cancer, including prostate, colon, pancreatic, and lung cancer.”
    Oh oh, too cheap, it’s a wonder it has not been banned yet.
    source: https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/aspirin-turn-of-the-century-miracle-drug

    “While most medications come in dosages of round numbers or common decimals, low-dose aspirin has a standard dose of 81 mg.”
    This fascinating article goes into the strange history of the apothecary system of weights and measures:

  16. David A says:

    Interesting study here on the Covid vaccines.

    Click to access us-covid19-vaccines-proven-to-cause-more-harm-than-good-based-on-pivotal-clinical-trial-data-analyzed-using-the-proper-scientific-1811.pdf

    It takes a position of examination of all cause mortality and all serious adverse health events. This is justified and apparently is standard protocol in, for instance, cancer therapies, where many adverse events cause serious other problems, and life expectancy is actually increased little, and pain often increased a lot.
    There finding, after only 56 days and I think, 26 days, was the vaccines are a NET NEGATIVE. ( note – the study was NOT incorporating the post six months vaccinated failures or the potential OAS and ADE vaccine failures)

    The numbers look solid, yet a quick read through did NOT note how they compared base health of the control vs vaccinated groups. All the same it is completely legitimate to consider all the negatives that do occur, especially with the varied negative adverse events, and this study does take those into account.

  17. jim2 says:

    David A. One red flag about this is that the journal is a “pay to play” one. You can publish anything you want for the fee. Not saying this make the article wrong and not saying peer reviewed journals are bullet-proof either.

    A widely-reposted 2021 Facebook post claiming that the mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 could cause prion diseases was based on a paper by Classen. The paper “COVID-19 RNA based vaccines and the risk of prion disease” was published in Microbiology and Infectious Diseases, whose publisher, Scivision Publishers, is included in Beall’s list of publishers of predatory journals. Vincent Racaniello, professor of microbiology and immunology at Columbia University, described the claim as “completely wrong”.[1][6][7] Tulane University virologist Robert Garry stated that Classen has offered no evidence for the three pillars of his argument: that the sequence overlaps between the Pfizer vaccine are greater than occur with any randomly-selected stretch of RNA, or that the vaccine could cause zinc to be released and that doing so would affect its purported targets as he proposes.[8]


  18. jim2 says:

    David A – in the case of this specific article, there is a glaring flaw. He used data from the VAERS database.

    Anyone can enter an event in the VAERS database. Unless the VAERS data is vetted with additional studies, it’s not very useful. For example, a 50 year old man might die of a heart attack, that he was about to have anyway, two weeks after vaccination, and it could be reported.

    So, IMO, this paper is worthless.

  19. Paul, Somerset says:

    Thanks, David A. That is precisely the sort of study I’ve been looking in vain for. The nearest I’d found hitherto was the Pfizer vaccine data itself, which showed little difference in symptoms between the drug and control groups, just a reduction in the number of positive Covid diagnoses in the drug group.Which is all a bit irrelevant to the patients themselves.

    It reminds me of the controversy over cancer screening, which notoriously shows no reduction in all-cause mortality, despite a reduction in cancer deaths. Over-diagnosis, unnecessary treatment, and in some cases the screening techniques themselves all cause harm. The reason cancer screening continues despite this seems to be the belief that “well, we can’t just do nothing, can we?”

    Click to access 187371

  20. Paul, Somerset says:

    @ jim2 – I thought the paper is using the results from the three manufacturers’ own clinical trials.
    Happy to be proven wrong if you can show me where he was using VAERS data.

  21. jim2 says:

    @Paul, Somerset says: 6 September 2021 at 3:05 pm

    Right. I mis-interpreted that. Criticism withdrawn.

  22. Paul, Somerset says:

    No problem.

  23. jim2 says:

    RE: Trends in Internal Medicine article. Here are the two references for the two mRNA vaccines for “adverse events.” These events don’t appear to be severely adverse. But you can judge for yourself.



  24. jim2 says:

    Since being discovered in Colombia in January, the mu variant of COVID-19 has spread to nearly four dozen countries and has made its presence known in Hawaii and Alaska. It has so far been found in 49 states with Nebraska being the only state to not have a mu variant case detected.

    Health officials believe mu is even more transmissible than the delta variant and has the potential to resist vaccines.

    In the U.S., the mu variant has been detected in 49 states and the District of Columbia, according to Newsweek.

    California has reported the highest number of the latest variant with 384. A total of 167 of those cases were found in Los Angeles County.


  25. H.R. says:

    Excerpt from jim2’s 7 September 2021 at 1:18 am post:

    “Health officials believe mu is even more transmissible than the delta variant and has the potential to resist vaccines.”

    Okey-dokey. Now that mu has come in on the heels of delta, I am getting more and more comfortable with my decision to skip the vaccines and go with preventative measures.

    I’m also beginning to think that the vaccines are doing some good… and a bit of harm (some people’s physiology disagrees with the vaccine to the point of fatality, but that’s rare), but not enough good to justify jabbing every kid and his brother.

    I think we’re going to run out of letters from the Greek alphabet before all is said and done.

  26. Ossqss says:

    Sooo, how do virus interactions become more transmissible? Smaller parts? 300 nm filter for the N95 mask effectiveness. Covid is at what> 50 to 140 last I looked.

    Just sayin, eventually numbers matter,,,,, in a (lockdown) computer love world :-)


  27. David A says:

    Also note that I stated this about the study
    “ There finding, after only 56 days and I think, 26 days, was the vaccines are a NET NEGATIVE. ( note – the study was NOT incorporating the post six months vaccinated failures or the potential OAS and ADE vaccine failures)”

    Paul, it does remind me of why criticism of cancer studies exists. Personally when you add in the mounting vaccine failures, 40 percent monthly to get below a critical threshold, it appears very fair to say there is little or no B-cell recall then the vaccine is a failure as it cannot stimulate durable immunity at all. That is, the vaccines are basically the same (via a different mechanism) to receiving monoclonal antibodies if you get infected; yes, you have an antibody titer but the vaccines fail to train your immune system to recognize the infection in the future. As that titer wanes the protection becomes increasingly worthless and, since we know mutational binding changes are occurring the potential for vaccine-caused harm by potentiating infections remains a distinct possibility as that occurs.

    Think about what the 40 percent decay rate means. It logically means the manufacturers KNEW this would happen. ( That is IMV, criminal.)

    Some may choose to ignore VARES, and ignore that it is likely understated, and ignore threats to fire medical workers if they criticize government vaccine policy, and ignore bitchute videos from many many doctors, and nurses working directly with the elderly, seeing very large numbers of harms, and being told to NOT report them. These people, like Dr Cole, are risking careers, Careers that they invested much time and money to get into. I will not ignore them. VARES is not worthless, government response to it is criminal.

  28. jim2 says:

    Much of the commentary focuses on the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine, its becoming uselessly weak after 6 months for everybody, and its failure to do any useful thing for the bulk of the recipients. He recommends people outside the risk groups not to get vaccinated. Attached to the data including the newest data at all times, he concludes that the U.K. and Israeli (and other) data make it very clear that the vaccines don’t help to tame the contagion right now, and they don’t protect a decisive fraction of the vaccine recipients from the hospitals and cemeteries.

    Instead, there seems to be a growing signal indicating that the vaccinated people get a stronger Covid-19, e.g. by the measurements of the viral doses that seems to be much higher in many cases. Some of the data seems to directly prove the ongoing antibody-dependent enhancement: the antibodies in this scenario are actually used to make the disease stronger, they help the virus to get to cells of the vaccinated patient where the virus wouldn’t get without the ADE help.

    Meanwhile, as he also discusses, billions of people are fed with misleading statements and/or outright lies (“the vaccines are completely safe” is probably the most important one from his viewpoint). At some moment, the interviewer describes these lies as “noble lies” but I think it is too flattering a description. Some of the people may really believe these lies and consider them noble but they’re mostly victims (who were trained to feel as important victims, however); the main promoters of these lies have almost certainly and almost completely malicious and egotist motives to do so, including profiteering. At the end, he hypothesizes that the Big Pharma companies have largely bought or co-opted the media plus governments and that is why these counterproductive vaccination policies are promoted in most countries. He describes some of the deep connections between the Big Pharma, Big Media, Big Tech, Big Gates, and Big Government, aside from some other big jerks.


  29. jim2 says:

    109 Czech deaths apparently caused by the Covid vaccination

    That’s about 50,000 vaccine deaths globally. CNN Prima News helpfully listed the most cited side effects

    There may be very serious, long-term effects of the Covid vaccination (which I find unlikely but possible; and the emergence of ADE seems somewhat likely) but there are surely immediate reactions to the vaccine and lots of deaths. The Czech subsidiary of CNN has helpfully listed the vaccine-related complaints and deaths in Czechia, a nation of 10.7 million which has delivered 11.4 million vaccines (5.7 million first jabs; 5.5 million second jabs; 0.2 million one-shot vaccines).

    5.2 billion doses were served globally, that is 460 times 11.4 million doses in Czechia. By proportionality, this would suggest that 460 times 109 equals 50,000 people were killed by Covid vaccines so far globally. Fewer than 4.5 million Covid deaths but…
    — Luboš Motl (@lumidek) August 29, 2021

    My calculated result 50,000 vaccine deaths has been said to be compatible with the Eudra and VAERS data in Europe and America. Note that the vaccine deaths are smaller than the Covid deaths by almost 2 orders of magnitude. But if you restrict both deaths to the young people or even kids, you will see that the vaccination kills more people than Covid. If you restrict the Covid deaths to the epoch when the vaccination was intense, the vaccine deaths “win” even among some older groups.


  30. jim2 says:

    An Ohio judge on Monday ruled a hospital no longer had to give a COVID-19 patient ivermectin, reversing a previous decision from another judge.

    “While this court is sympathetic to the Plaintiff and understands the idea of wanting to do anything to help her loved one, public policy should not and does not support allowing a physician to try ‘any’ type of treatment on human beings,” Common Pleas Judge Michael Oster said in the court order.

    Julie Smith, the wife of COVID-19 patient Jeffery Smith, sued West Chester Hospital after the hospital would not treat her husband with ivermectin that was prescribed to him by a doctor.

    Ralph Lorigo, one of the attorneys representing Julie Smith, said they will not appeal Oster’s decision since Jeffery Smith already received 13 days of doses and the hospital said they are ready to take him off the ventilator soon.

    “Julie has won this case; I don’t care what this judge says,” Lorigo told the outlet. “We are believers he’s going to survive because of ivermectin.”

    Daniel Tanase, Smith’s treating physician, argued in court against the idea that ivermectin has helped his patient and said there isn’t enough evidence to be using ivermectin to fight COVID-19.


  31. jim2 says:

    According to data compiled by the Centers For Disease Control, approximately one in every 5,000 vaccinated Americans has tested positive for the coronavirus. That number is probably much lower in places with significantly fewer cases — like the Northeast, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco areas, where it is probably fewer than one in 10,000.

    This is the first detailed data about so-called “breakthrough” infections — positive tests from people fully vaccinated. The data suggests that politicians and public health officials are wildly overreacting to the delta variant’s effect on the already vaccinated.


  32. jim2 says:

    The AMA has taken the startling and unprecedented position that American physicians should immediately stop prescribing, and pharmacists should stop honoring their prescriptions for ivermectin for COVID-19 patients. The AMA is thus contradicting the professional judgment of a very large number of physicians, who are writing about 88,000 prescriptions per week. It also contradicts the Chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, Haruo Ozaki, who recommended that all doctors in Japan immediately begin using Ivermectin to treat COVID.


  33. Ossqss says:

    Interesting alteration by the CDC recently. Courtesy of JB retweet on Twitter.


  34. H.R. says:

    @Ossqss – The definitions on the left of that graphic you linked to are what I’ve been operating on all this time. That’s why I write ‘vaccine(s)(ination)’ when discussing the current crop of jabs.

    The new CDC definition on the right is what justifies my continued use of ‘vaccine’ when discussing the current jabs.

    Glad to see the @#%$&!-ers at the CDC agree with me.

  35. David A says:

    Massachusetts 7 million people 66.23% fully vaccinated 76% 1 shot 609 people in the hospital. Same vaccination % Half the number of people and almost double the hospitalizations as Ontario.
    As of August 28, 2021 there were 4,483,344 fully vaccinated people and there were 19,443 cases in vaccinated people 651 of those 19,433 cases resulted in hospitalization and 144 cases resulted in death based on information reported to date Now what point were you trying to make?

  36. jim2 says:

    Covid-19 natural immunity compared to vaccine-induced immunity: The definitive summary


  37. E.M.Smith says:

    @David A. & FOLKS in General:

    WHEN (not if, it will be a when…) you copy / paste a link and it ends in “…” it will basically never work. Not unless the site admin has a Very Puckish sense of humor and actually put three … at the end AND you took the time to translate them into Unicode so that WordPress would not steal them as periods ending a sentence.

    Almost always, the site is being “cute” and hiding the REAL URL behind a shortened text version ending in an ellipsis.

    So, painful as it is, you have to open the link, grab the whole thing, and post that. Sometimes this is a copy / past from the address bar of the opened page, sometimes you can get it with “copy link” and a mouse hover.

    What you can’t do, and expect it to work, is “highlight in page text, copy text, paste” as you will be missing the end bits of the URL link.


    @David A.:

    Your “mass.gov” link is 404 page missing…

  38. Ossqss says:

    Typically if you go to a site via another site ( like Zerohedge Etc.), they keep their linkage data in the URL to get paid for such. Typically, if you see a ? in the URL, you can delete all of the stuff beyond it ( and the ?) and remove the artificial linkage. I always try to look at it, and cut, and test it before posting.

  39. David A says:

    Apologies, not just for the bad link, but for the rude ending. It was late and I had several threads opened and was mirroring a rude response on another site where trolls are allowed. So a mistake.

  40. David A says:

    @ Jim, a good read there.
    Often the natural immunity estimates are understated, as they are usually based on PCR tests that were run at up to 40 cycles, so that false positives are mixed in with folk that actually contacted the virus.

  41. E.M.Smith says:

    @David A:

    Don’t see any apology as necessary, nor did I see anything particularly rude (just a little /snark;… and I do that all the time ;-)

    More that we’ve had two broken URLs ending in … inside a week or two; so figured I needed to put up a “Hey, Y’all, that dog don’t hunt!” comment so folks know it doesn’t work. Then a comment to you that your link was broke and maybe you could post the full one…

  42. Terry Jackson says:

    From Real Clear
    A discussion of IVM without the name calling and invective, until you get to the comments. Worth a read to see why some medical types are less than persuaded Of note, a friend who got C-19 was prescribed IVM .by their Dr.

  43. David A says:

    This is an interesting report from

    It seems that most people naturally developed memory antibodies against Covid.
    This may explain the weak findings in the vaccine studies where the difference between the controls and vaccinated was minor. It suggests a form of ADE is responsible for those with negative reactions to the virus.

  44. David A says:

    Interesting group and articles, written so the average person can grasp their message.
    Doctors for Covid Ethics
    We are doctors and scientists from 30 countries, seeking to uphold medical ethics, patient safety and human rights in response to COVID-19.

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