New Ice Age Scare? Yes, it DID happen.

First off, I’ve added an extension to Firefox that claims to download YouTube videos as MPEG4 files and downloaded a copy.

(Now I need to learn how to play it locally and then how to upload it …)

I did this “just in case” the video mysteriously “goes away” once this is posted… as so many things seem to do.

So back in the ’70s there was the “Ice Age Is Coming” scare being pushed by “Climate Scientists”. Now you will hear folks doing the old “Gufaw” and “No it never was” bit. Well, if someone tries that on you, tell them Spock said so!

In this case, Leonard Nemoy on the History Channel (back when it actually DID some history, not just the Space Aliens channel…)

Has a nice bit of history, some real science, and a selection of Doom And Destruction In Our Time stories told by Real Scientists to make it even better.

So welcome to a retro-ride back to the ’70s when The Big Scare was a new Little (or not so little) Ice Age!!!!

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
This entry was posted in AGW Climate Perspective, AGW Science and Background, History and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

41 Responses to New Ice Age Scare? Yes, it DID happen.

  1. Eric Fithian says:

    I have been using
    to convert audio “videos” to .flac files for download.
    They wil also do video to mp4/avi/wmv/3gp….
    They will hold the converted file for 4 hours on their server, so the user has time enough to get it if some sort of interruption occurs.
    I went to convert2mp3 after getting static about some of my choices from the converter I first found….

  2. andysaurus says:

    Hi E.M. VLC Media player works for me.

  3. philjourdan says:

    I will have to check that out (the add in). I am rather pissed off at firefox right now however. It decided to “upgrade” my browser last night and crapped it out. Lost all my cookies and history and everything. I am not a happy camper.

    I am going to Brave sooner than I thought.

  4. Larry Ledwick says:

    Brave seems to work fine for me, only down side right now is it does not highlight visited links with a different color here on word press pages. I submitted a request for them to look at that and they said they had put in a request but have not seen it change yet. At the time I thought it was that the color difference was so subtle that I could not see it with my red green colorblindness but a friend with normal color vision told me she could see no difference in the link colors. The odd thing is on a search results page it does change the colors of visited links.

  5. Pingback: New Ice Age Scare? Yes, it DID happen. – Climate Collections

  6. Power Grab says:

    I hadn’t seen that show before. I didn’t remember the Northeast being immobilized by excessive amounts of snow, but I do remember having to put chains on the tires of my car when I prepared to go babysit for a family who had plans to go out for New Year’s Eve in 1976.

    My folks used to put chains on our tires in the late 1960s. I remember they had to do that after Thanksgiving 1972, so they could drive me back to school across the state. That was extraordinary.

    I noticed that the “authorities” in the video did couch their comments in language that left some room for doubt. They didn’t act like it was a done deal and “WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!”…so you have to surrender massive amounts of tax…even though it won’t stop the inevitable. I mean, they certainly raised that specter, but they did admit, in so many words, that we don’t know, etc.

    The one guy did talk about being worried about how people were stuck in their individual countries, and if their climate got catastrophically cold, they might take actions that threaten other countries’ citizens.

    I wonder if that is what set off Maurice Strong, or some of these other people who have more money than wisdom, and more power than sense.

  7. R. de Haan says:

  8. R. de Haan says:

  9. R. de Haan says:

  10. R. de Haan says:

  11. p.g.sharrow says: Haan; Atlantis Revived
    Nice picture of the PreDeluge Earth. The Great Flood that drove humanity from the Paradise that they had enjoyed for tens of thousands of years. The seas rose up from their depths and flooded the rich continental shelves, driving humanity up into the barren mountains.
    Now that was REAL CLIMATE CHANGE. A great human caused disaster,Their wicked ways angered the gods that brought about the end of humanities early development.
    Of course it took 4,000 years instead of 40 days and 40 nights but why quibble over a couple of decimal points. It really did happen, to all the peoples of the Earth. And all religions attest to it and the fact that it was Human caused. Now that is consensus! Human caused Global Climate Disaster…pg

  12. E.M.Smith says:

    @R. de Haan:

    What happened is rain. Ice formation is a long duration slow mass transport problem. Only so much snow when at -10 C… but when rain is at +10 C the snow melts fast.

    Look at every spring melt in California. A winter of accumulated snow gone in a week of rain sometimes…

    As for just when the next glacial comes,there’s good reason to worry, but not enough precise data to know… Part of the problem being the onset can be very slow outside the ice line. It could well be that we already entered the process with the Little Ice Age, and then the 1500 to 1800 year cycle pulled us up to warmer for a while… So do you count the start as the LIA, or 1500 years later in about 2500 when it returns, but much worse? It may depend on which side of the ice you live…

    IMHO, though, the L.I.A. was a half Bond Event cycle, which would mean we get the full wallop about 536+1500= 2036 AD to 536+1800= 2336 AD depending on the actual length of the Bond Event cycle and what drives it (solar 1500 or lunar tidal 1800 or???)

    Like I said, not enough data….

  13. E.M.Smith says:

    Per the long worry over the energy to melt the ice:

    The basic error is that they assume the ice sat in place. A 2 mile high ice edge will calve chunks into the rivers, out to sea, and melting in the tropics…

    I do believe a meteor hit the ice in the Younger Dryias, and that accellerated some of it, but basic physics of water and ice need tending too…

  14. Sera says:

    @ Power Grab:

    In Search Of… was a show produced by Rod Serling (of Twilight Zone fame) from 1977-1982. The History Channel started up in 1995. The video posted above has Stephen Schnieder in it.

    It’s academics all the way down.

  15. Aron says:

    And even less climate data today than yesterday…

    “A precious cache of ice cores bearing 80,000 years’ worth of climate history from the High Arctic has been significantly damaged by a freezer failure, officials at the University of Alberta have revealed. The university confirmed on Thursday that 12.8 per cent of the collection was damaged in the incident.”

  16. R. de Haan says:

    That`s not melting incident, it is called sanatizing of core data/evidence or…the dog ate my home work.

  17. R. de Haan says:

    Fortunately the Russians have their core’s still intact and real scientists at the job.

  18. p.g.sharrow says:

    Ice on the Earth or Ocean freezes from the top down. Melts from the bottom up. To transition from solid to liquid, it must absorb 180 BTUs of energy per pound. BUT! a large mass might absorb nearly all that energy and remain solid! Snow is quite insulative, while densified glacial ice very conductive to heat energy flow. So our vast Ice Mountains could liquefy very quickly once the energy within the ice passes the needed threshold…pg

  19. R. de Haan says:

    The evidence for a meteor impact is there
    Still searching for the impact location though however it could have exploded in the air.

    But that impact according to some wasn’t the only event.
    There is geological evidence that the ice cap was melted in different high melting events that caused giant flash floods.
    This pulse like melting events would have required much more energy input than could be delivered by our sun as we know it. There are several like theories that are in need of further research like.
    1. Our sun went balistic producing massive solar flares that hit the earth injecting large amounts of plasma into our magnetosphere (Carrington Events on Steroids in magnitude and frequency:
    2. Our solar system was hit by intergalactic shock waves caused by colliding stars in the center of of the milky way pushing plasma, gas clouds and debree into our solar system.
    3. Periodic intrusion of plasma from relative nearby systems including the Oort Cloud.
    Anyhow, they all point to events where our solar system could have been infuenced by intergalactic effects/ forces.

    There is still a lot to be discovered and a lot to learn.
    We can’t afford dealing with a comprimized science base that is no longer trustworthy.
    People start speculating on a massive scale dumping tons of sometimes medieval nonsense on the web.

  20. R. de Haan says:

  21. R. de Haan says:

  22. R. de Haan says:

    About the past floods and the geological evidence:

  23. R. de Haan says:

    More on the Mega Floods:

  24. R. de Haan says:

    About the ice melt;

  25. pouncer says:

    I about half-convince myself that the reason the ice-age scare didn’t materialize is that we didn’t DO anything to prevent it.

    After WWII the problem of refugees and displaced persons was so looming and awful the world entrusted the UN with a “High Commission on Refugees” to solve the problem. It’s a problem that has only gotten worse.

    Similarly the world formed bodies to deal with contagious infection diseases like malaria, cholera, and thyphoid. The UN’s “peacekeepers” actually infected, for the first time ever Haiti with cholera — by accident probably. But malaria is still around nearly on purpose…

    The World Bank was supposed to use modern scientific economic theory to smooth out the business cycle of boom and bust, avoid currencies going into runaway inflation, etc etc. Last I checked, (yesterday, Venezuela) modern banking is still busting.

    On the other hand, a billion people were expected to starve, mostly in India, because of — well, not sure exactly but “over-population” was mentioned. But no international body of baby-killers was chartered to invade and sterilize crowded nations. And yet, despite the inaction and lack of organized response — India survives and other places are muddling along as well.

    Other examples near the top of my head would simply waste space. But it seems to me that the problems the world actually mobilized to “fix” got worse while the ones we threw up our hands and wrote off as hopeless have healed up on their own.

    Maybe we’re lucky we didn’t attempt to deal with the “coming ice age”

  26. Larry Ledwick says:

    The ice age scare was actively supported by the media until about the time they came out with the nuclear winter scare trying to shut down the arms race in 1983 and the TTAPS report.
    The coming ice age scare and the message of the Nuclear Winter scare were mutually supportive so they were pushed in tandem for a while – over time the Ice age scare was de-emphasized and the nuclear winter scare was emphasized and set the stage for man caused influence on the climate.

    The weather did not cooperate and as the very severe winters of the late 1970’s and early 1980’s ameliorated, they pulled a rabbit out of their hat. By using the cold winters of that period as a back drop and base line as if they were the norm, they then turned the nuclear winter research inside out and pointed to the sudden warming in the late 1980’s and 1990’s as evidence of global warming and completely re-wrote the script.

    I have several books written during that Ice age scare period, some of them by scientists (term used with gritted teeth) like Dr. Stephen Schneider who would be one of the early proponents of global warming a few years later. I actually went up to NOAA in Boulder and talked to him one time and he set off all my BS alarms as he would not give me straight answers to my questions, and did not see to really be an advocate of what he wrote about in his book. A real scientist meeting someone interested in his theory would have been pulling out charts and graphs and encouraging me to follow his clues. He did nothing that made me think he actually believed his theory.

    His book the Genesis Strategy did a very good job of selling the theory that historically the world had generally been a lot colder than it was during the mid 20th century and was most likely to get colder again as this interglacial ebbed.

    The Genesis Strategy – Climate and Global Survival (The Science and Social Consequences of Climate Change) Paperback – 1977
    by Stephen H Schneider (Author)

    He helped create the ground work for climate change, but when they flipped the script to man caused global warming, he tried to go with the global warming meme but his book carried too much baggage and he got pushed aside by others.

    Interestingly enough the mathematical models used in the TTAPS study had the same flaws as our global warming models and back then that helped kill the message of nuclear winter because the flaws were obvious (simplified earth, no ocean heat sink, debate about whether smoke and soot would warm or heat the surface etc.). That is one of the things that primed me to look for similar errors in the global warming message.
    Back then good science still was functional and as those limitations of the TTAPS study were pointed out (and the timely collapse of the Soviet Union pulled the rug out from under the Nuclear fear mongering ) they had to change tacks.

    It is interesting to note that the book Limits to Growth (1972) also used simplified models to sell its end of resources message but what I find most interesting is one of the consequences it stressed of the coming collapse due to resource shortages were massive immigration pressures and destabilization of countries by huge influxes of immigration. The same thing was included in the Ice age scare they were stressing the destabilizations that would result as Canadians moved into the US, and the US pushed south into Mexico as the climate cooled. Same for Europe as Russia and northern European populations were pushed south into Greece, Italy and Southern France and Spain and eventually into northern Africa as the ice advanced.

    Coincidence, or was that out come always in the mix?
    Was this when the globalists realized the massive immigration flows could be used to take down countries?
    Was that their intention all along but they were just looking for the circumstances to create the refugee influx?

  27. Paul Hanlon says:

    The “scientist” at the end is none other than Steven Schneider, one of the primary drivers of the global warming scam. He was the one who gave the green light to “offer up scary scenarios”, because the end justified the means.

  28. DonM says:

    Back in 7th grade I had a brand new out college Science teacher. He pushed around the global cooling meme a bit. (This guy also went around the room asking how many cars each kids’ family had … he acted incredulous when I said five and tried to embarrass me in front of the class.)

    What set off my BS meter with him was his adamant stance that “we can’t solve the problem with engineering solutions, we can’t and shouldn’t try to modify the climate to meet our needs. We need to make lifestyle changes … industrial changes and economic changes. We need to fix ourselves.”

    It would be kinda fun to find this dbag (in his late 60’s now) and see if he is on the same bandwagon, but for different reason. I might try to look him up… where do old enrivo-hippies go to die?

  29. Power Grab says:

    @ Sera says:
    7 April 2017 at 4:59 am:


    I didn’t have a TV from 1976 until 1986. So I missed out on that series during its first run.

  30. R. de Haan says:

    Scares should alarm the public making them more subseptible for the looting elites.
    After the publication of the report “Limits to Growth” sponsored by the Club of Rome in 1974 the US Government decided that they had control the population Growth in the 3rd World, if necessary through means of war and genocide, see NSSM 200.
    The Ping Pong politics of Nixon with China resulted in the one child policy of the Chinese Government.
    The introduction of contraceptives in the sixties and the nuclear scare reduced population growth in the West and in Africa, India, Latin America massive population control programs were rolled out. In the 80’s we had the AIDS epademic that now is more or less under control in the West but still rages in many of the Third World countries and Emerging Markets.
    In the Ninetess we engaged in Iraq and after 9/11 the USA is involved in a more or less perpetual war with a whole list of countries, a process that as it looks now won’t stop under Trump.
    In the mean time the bio fuel mandate in the USA and Europe is killing approx. a 100 million people a year that die of famine and it triggered the Arab Spring Revolution that started as a food protest in Tunesia and Egypt.
    From the 80’s on all scientific efforts have been concentrated on the human effect on the environment allocating massive research budgets all focused on the creation and promotion of the AGW doctrine.
    This abuse of science and media has created a resonating effect through all disciplines of science .
    This includes the research for the causes of ice ages and the extinction event that ended the mega fauna that roamed the planet for 5 million years approx. 5000 years ago.

    I find many reports that blam the emergence of the pre ice age civilization for their extinction but if you dig deeper into this subject it becomes clear that not only the Mega Fauna disappeared but also the most of the pre ice age civilizations.

    The Vostoc and Greenland Ice Cores have presented us with a graph that clearly shows a number of highly important conclusions.

    1. Ice Ages that take approx. 100.000 years from start to finish come and go like clock work.
    2. The temperature differences in the ice core show extremely rapid changes of an incredible magnitude. So jumped the temperature by 20 degrees F, in the Younger Dryas over a period of three years and – 20 degrees in a similar short period of time while we entered an Ice Age.
    During these periods sea level fluctuated by 400 feet and during the melting events entire continents were ravaged.
    4. When in 1908 Siberia was hot by a meteorite that exploded five miles high in the sky an area of 800 square miles was devastated representing about 3 times the power of the biggest hydogen bomb ever made. Now we know that over the past 10.000 years more than 500 impacts have been taking place.
    5. From the ice records we kan tell that our climate has been extremely stable over the past 8000 years and that enabled our civilization to reach it’s current level of development.
    6. According to the ice cores, the earth has entered a cooling cycle for 3000 years now and the interglacial is at it’s final stage.

    Sane people should expect that based on all these findings our priorities should be directed at figuring out what forces drive those big changes and extinction events, especially as a new ice age is knocking at our doors.

    Unfortunately humanty has its priorities entirely wrong and focuses all its resources on a 0.8 increase of temperature rise over a period of 150 years while destroying its power infra structure and industry..

    If we are destined to be the stewards of the earth and protect human life, flora and fauna, which I think we are, we should focus all our attention to the universe and figure out how to protect our planet against meteorites and comets that threaten the very existance of all life on the planet.

    Instead we are dealing with environmental hacks that believe Gaia is better off without our civilization and a political establishment that believes that 500 million inhabitants is a sustainable number of people to roam the earth so Genocide is part of their Agenda and UN sustainable Agenda 21.

    It can’t get any crazier.


  31. cdquarles says:

    Re: The dog ate my homework, well, that *did* happen to me. I’d done my homework outdoors (we had a wooden table where we ate the BBQ we cooked). I left it and the dog tore it up. My fault! I took my lumps, since there wasn’t enough time left for me to re-do it. Still, it is easy to scoff at such a thing, until it really does happen to you.

  32. R. de Haan says:

    Pyramids found in the Azores:

    Digging back in time comes with many surprises.
    In school I learned the civilization that build pyramids in Egypt go back approx. 3000 years B.C.
    In the mean studies have been published that indicate that a.o. the Spinx and the civilization that build it is much older.
    Now they have found undersee pyramids off the coast of Cuba and….the Azores off the coast of Portugal.
    The position and depth of these structures suggests they been build when sea level was at its lowest level 13.500 years ago when the big melt of the Ice Age started, maybe even older,
    20.000 years old, as is claimed in the linked article. Not supprising this found is directly linked with Plato’s stories of Atlantis that disappeared 9000 years ago. Who knows…

    A very interesting subject especially if the time line of these findings would appear to be correct In this case the presence of these pyramids suggests there were advanced civilizations that florished during the Ice Age at the same time when Clovis people were still throwing spears and the Cave Dwellers of Lascaux were painting their Mega Fauna drawings 17.000 B.C that beat any impressionist artist of our time including Picasso: Likely? I don’t think so but keep an open mind.
    It could very well be that the pyramids were build more recently and got submerged by a sinking of the landmass they were build on in combination the rise of the oceans that came to a slow down approx 9.000 B.C..

    This by the way would fit Plato’s vanished Atlantis time line like a glove.
    Especially since Plato never mentioned the Mega Fauna anywhere.
    Lot’s of grounds for speculation still and a lot of scientific digging ahead of us.

  33. R. de Haan says:

    E.M.Smith says:
    7 April 2017 at 2:30 am

    Thanks for your respons.
    As for the ice melt, there can’t be any comparence with our annual winter ice melt simply because of the scale and dimensions of the Ice. There was no steady melting process with a constant flow of melt water. The melt event of the ice cap was an extremely massive and violent process that dramaticly changed the US landscape as mega floods of unimaginable dimensions sought their way to the oceans.

    As for the solar cycles, I did not pay any attention to them since we still don’t know what events or mechanisms trigger an ice age and we still don’t know what events or mechanisms end them. All I focussed on was the ice core graph. It shows 4 ice ages that all take approx.100.000 years from start to finish and they all show a very short interglacial with extremely fast temerature drops over a very short time when the glaciation begins and a very steep temperature rise over a very short time when they end. It looks like the flick of a switch, similar to the switch from cool to warm and warm to cool oceanic oscilation.
    It took only 3 years to raise the temperatures by 20 degrees F when the YD started.

    This is climate change on a massive scale if you compare this with all the fuzz that is made by the warmists today over a 0.8 degree F rise in temperature since 1850, a 167 year period.
    I don’t want to think in any alarmist terms but if you look at the Vostok Ice core graph nothing compares to what we see today.

    According to this graph we are on a slow cooling spree over 3.000 years now during which time with some exceptions we had an extremely stable and pleasant climate with no major catastropic events.

    However, if the switch into the next Ice Age cycle starts like the past cycle ended, we could be in for some great surprises.

    Just think about it. What could trigger the switch….

    I really want to know.

  34. p.g.sharrow says: Haan; keep in mind that those temperature records are site specific. The world wide temperature average change might not have been so drastic. Those site temperature point in time of the changes is also a guesstimate that could be off by as much as a century or more. Even in this century we have seen temperatures rise and plunge locally while the yearly average changes little over the planet. The only thing we know for sure is that continental ice cover does happen and is a fairly stable condition best explained by orbital mechanics. We also know that we are slipping into the next “Ice Age” of expanding snow fields. Warm Oceans and a cooling sun means heavier, later, winter snows. Changes in local climates, Humans will adapt as they have done for millennia…pg

  35. E.M.Smith says:

    @R. de Haan:

    Yes, their CAN be a comparison. It is similar in 2 ways.

    1) The basic physics of ice and water.
    2) The melt is far faster than the formation.

    BTW, I am NOT saying there was no impact. In fact, I fully embrace that there was (and have done postings on it.). Most likely impact site in Canada where a very large platinum group metals mine now exists…

    But if you look at the record, we were in a typical triangular rise / melt over thousands of years process then “BAM!” it gets cold again. The impact caused a return to cold… though with a big chunk of ice blasted out of Canada and with a “slush” wall over the top into Siberia that caught a bunch of Mammoths mid-chew and froze them.

    But my point is not that the impact didn’t happen, it did. My point is about the asymmetry of snow arrival over time as a slow mass transport problem (lots of lite fluffy bits disbursed in a thin medium) vs ice departure as calving 2 mile high ice wall into a slush river out to sea. Basically: the ice DID NOT MELT IN PLACE in large part. It left as icebergs and melted far far away with much higher heat available to do the melting. Much like ice does today (though a bit more steady state) as State sized chunks break off of Antarctica and building sized chunks float past Iceland into the Atlantic. It is a finesse on a thermo point, not a contention over an impact. Yes, there were megafloods out the southern edge over land but there were also huge water paths out the east and north to east to south. I’d also assert those megafloods were not just water, but more like the breakup flow of Alaskan rivers when summer comes. LOTS of ice chunks scraping along in a bunch of water.

    Also note that THIS interglacial has a ‘dip’ in the temperature rise that seems to ‘clip the top’ off the peak. We’ve had more or less flat temperatures for 10,000 years. Past interglacials have a conical top. Straight rise / Straight fall. IMHO, the impact also caused the ‘peak clipping’ we’ve experienced.

    As to ‘what causes the change’: Ocean current rearrangement is the flip / flop. Greenland and really all that north / european area gets the warm water shut off and freezes over. On the opposite end, the warm water starts flowing and it switches 20 degrees ‘right quick’. At the same time, Florida shows the opposite. During glacials, it gets a more ‘summer like’ pattern even in winter. During interglacials, it is like now. Basically the tropical heat from the Caribbean / Gulf backs up and stays near Florida.

    The paper referenced in this posting covers it:

    Lake sediments and more show this pattern in Florida. Counter cyclical with Greenland.

    The important part of that being the realization that the Tropics don’t change during a glacial.

    Read that twice.

    Brazil is FULL of plant species of millions of years stability that are all frost sensitive. They have NEVER been frosted, or they would not be here now. The Tropics are warm, and stay warm.

    What changes is how much tropical heat gets redistributed to the North Pole / Europe / Canada / Siberia via ocean currents and a melted north polar ice cap. During a glacial, nearly none. During an interglacial, lots.

    As for what causes the ocean currents to switch on and off (or shift their start and end points), that’s more murky…

  36. R. de Haan says:

    Looking for evidence of the meteorite impact site that ended the Mega Fauna and pre ice age civilizations:

  37. philjourdan says:

    Of course it took 4,000 years instead of 40 days and 40 nights but why quibble over a couple of decimal points.

    What is a day to God? :-)

  38. p.g.sharrow says:

    Or to Ecoloon religious cults.
    How can any logical person believe that they can commit a sin against GOD? Mother Earth?
    Sins are committed against others. They are the demons that you will have to deal with in the after.
    Climate always changes, just a natural fact…pg

  39. E.M.Smith says:


    Sins are committed against your own moral value structure…


    A more interesting question than you might think. “Time” moves at different rates at different speeds. IF one calibrates the passage of time to the moment of the Big Bang, then a timeline of events in that “Cosmic Day Clock” actually lines up with Genesis “days”… (There’s a whole book on that topic…) Haan:

    The has a lot of really good stuff on that topic…

  40. R. de Haan says:

    @ E.W. Smith,
    Thanks for the link, I will take a look.
    In the mean time I just dug out a video that really provides a plausible scenario what caused the Mega Fauna extinction and the rapid decent in another cold period. The proof a.o. is in geological formations known as the Carolina Bays. In short, a comet hit the ice cap in the area of what now is known as the great lakes. The impact not only caused an enormous heat and pressure wave but also a huge quake as the impact launched millions of cubic meters of ice into space. The quake wave liquified the area’s where where minutes later the ice balls would strike, The ice infused tons of water vapor outside the atmosphere blocking the sun for a long period of time causing a rebound to ice age conditions. The Mega Fauna was wiped out and the mega floods simply washed away al the geological evidence but the scars and the mega rocks that litter the landscape, except for the water holes at the East coast and the Carolina Bays.
    It’s a tough story to watch but step for step the scenario becomes hands and feet.

  41. R. de Haan says:

    Great lakes Impact and the orientation of the Caralina Bays mapped out:

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