Bad News On Delta – Faster, Worse, Treatments Failing

This video goes into some depth on the vaccine escape variant “Delta”. It is more contagious, makes folks sicker, infects more young folks, and by the time folks hit the hospital, the treatment protocols are having a harder time fixing things and are starting to fail.

More folks hitting the hospital and that’s causing its own problems.

The “worst scenario” of vaccine escape, as in Marek’s Disease is now happening. Enhancement of the virus for greater damage.

The only good news is that with this thing spreading with such a high R0 and with the vaccinated being easy, nearly symptom free sometimes, spreaders, it will tear through the entire population quickly. Hopely fast enough to get the survivors naturally immune before a new worse variant can pop up. Get us back on a natural path of natural immunity and viral mutation to less lethality.

Peak Prosperity

The Delta variant is pushing some hospitals to their capacities. Front line doctors are reporting that some patients are crashing in the ICU and are unresponsive to the same treatments that were working a few weeks ago. These doctors are pleading for people and doctors to take this variant seriously and to start early treatment upon first symptom onset.

The Delta variant is responsible. Further, we postulate that the mind-blowing “chickenpox like” R-naught of the Delta thought to be between R5 and R9 will make it a rather short-lived phenomenon. It will sweep through the immune-naïve populations it can find and then we’ll get to herd immunity.

Lastly, the UK and Iceland have finally admitted that these vaccine cannot get us to herd immunity.

Follow us to an uncensored Part 2 here:

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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103 Responses to Bad News On Delta – Faster, Worse, Treatments Failing

  1. philjourdan says:

    Supposedly it already has in some countries. The UK and Brazil supposedly went almost straight up, and then straight down. But the tyrants will milk it to keep freedom from being restored.

  2. jim2 says:

    Singapore has a high vaccination rate and they have a good, detailed report of their COVID status.

    3. 580 cases are currently warded in hospital. There are currently 20 cases of serious illness requiring oxygen supplementation, and 5 in critical condition in the ICU. Of those who have fallen very ill, 19 are seniors above 60 years, of whom 11 are completely unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.

    4. There is continuing evidence that almost all fully-vaccinated individuals do not suffer serious disease when infected, unless if they had underlying medical conditions that made them more susceptible. Over the last 28 days, the percentage of unvaccinated who became severely ill or died is 7.3%, while that for the fully vaccinated is 1.1%.

  3. David A says:

    Jim, Singapore was late to the vaccinated scene.
    “ Between January and May Singapore jabbed just 20% of its people. By June, when Singapore suffered its own outbreak of Delta at a fish port and several karaoke bars, the figure was only 40%. ”
    So now with 40 percent vaccinated in the last two months, and most all their population well within the 6 month window, they are fine for now. Yet the early vaccinated will be beginning to fail now. And they will be putting mutation pressure on the virus. Without the use of antivirals the story so far is failure to control.

    Just think, if they had tested for Covid exposure, and not vaccinated those, they would have herd immunity.

  4. David A says:

    In short, all those vaccinated are losing 40 percent of their antibodies each month, and without natural immunity, vulnerable to Delta or the next strain.

  5. jim2 says:

    David A. As long as most people get Delta, whether they know it or not, they will have been inoculated with the Delta variant. If that person is also vaccinated, they will have some immunity against the Alpha one (and maybe some others.) So, it will be more difficult for the Alpha/Delta immune to get a further mutation. If they do, it will be milder disease. The fast-spreading Delta is beneficial, IMO. The spike will be limited in mutations because it must function to get the viral payload into the cell. Like one article said, eventually almost the entire population will be mostly immune. Covid-19 will become a low-level, seasonal disease. For that to happen, a lot of people have to either be vaccinated, get the virus, or both.

  6. jim2 says:

    Protugal 75% fully vaccinated 85% partially or fully vaccinated. They are doing really well it appears.

  7. Steve C says:

    FWIW, the area around where I live in Nottingham is, according to the local paper, both a “Delta hotspot”, with many immigrants including Indians, and with a high percentage of us un”vaccinated”. So far, by doing no more than I have been doing all through Operation Covid (daily vitamin pill with extra vits C & D, plus zinc supplement and quinine a.k.a. tonic water) the latest iteration of the Virus of Doom has had no more effect on me than its elder brother. I check my temperature daily, always 37 +/- 0.2 Celsius (morning reading). The occasional sneeze, and no more than my usual robust 50-year-smoker’s cough – which, in conjunction with the nicotiney smoke, probably does a fair job of blasting any invaders out anyhow. (Remember, smokers were “under-represented in hospital admissions” at the start of all this). I regularly take 8 – 10 mile walks with no particular fatigue, despite my 70 years.

    Despite a history of oversensitivity to respiratory ailments, I continue to look around me in puzzlement as many of those around me lose their heads – soon, no doubt, to blame it all on me for not being “vaccinated” (despite letters from the NHS “offering” it). Long may the status quo continue – apart from the politics, of course, but I can’t do much about that.

  8. AC Osborn says:

    jim2 says: 3 September 2021 at 9:05 pm
    Do you know when they started using it?

  9. David A says:

    Jim, I thought the person infected becomes the mutation source ? In which case the vaccines are the perfect set up, as they do not prevent infection, mutation and further spread. There are a couple of pathologies where the vaccinated then infected do not developed normal immunity. We will see, yet we should already know by now as we have tens of thousands that have had both, and can be tracked.

  10. pauligon59 says:

    how do they know you have the delta variant versus some other variant? I didn’t think the standard tests, which haven’t been changed as far as I know, could differentiate between the two? I’m pretty sure they have to do a special test or culture to know what you have.

  11. Paul, Somerset says:

    Hope this is the right place. A week or two ago I was discussing the one occasion in the last couple of years when I’d felt that sensation in the throat which you know presages a cold, and how I’d dissolved some Cornish sea salt in lukewarm tap water, then gargled and snorted some up my nose. Went to bed and the symptoms had disappeared in the morning.

    Well, I’ve come across this, from Jan. 2019:

    “The Edinburgh and Lothians Viral Intervention Study (ELVIS) for short, has discovered that nose drops and gargling with salt water can shorten the average length of a cold virus by almost two days.

    The research project run by the University of Edinburgh initially showed last September that NaCL (sodium chloride) inhibited all types of viruses. The prevention of viruses is caused by the chloride component of salt, not the sodium.

    The participants in the study displayed a reduction in the overall length of the illness of 1.9 days, as well as a 36 per cent drop in over-the-counter medicine use and a 35 per cent reduction in infection of others in the household.

    Dr Sandeep Ramalingam, consult­ant virologist at the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, who led the study, said cells use chloride ions to produce hypochlorous acid (HOCI) which is the active ingredient that is found in bleach.

    In effect, cells use the chloride ion to produce bleach to get rid of viral infections – since bleach kills all viruses Dr Ramalingam believes that this will work across the board…”

    Bleach, eh?! Remember how the Donald got mocked for that a year later?

    You can read the full report here (coincidentally they also used Cornish sea salt – Cornwall is geologically distinct from the rest of the UK, so its sea salt has a wider range of minerals, though I have no idea whether that might be relevant):

  12. jim2 says:

    ACO – TrialSite was able to touch base again with research Ondrej Halgas with the University of Toronto. Back in late January of this year, we reported that Slovakia was the first EU-based nation to formally authorize the use of ivermectin for both prophylaxis and treatment for COVID-19 patients.

  13. E.M.Smith says:


    I believe it is a statistical % thing. That in a given area, some small sample of the sample swabs will be sequenced, then they figure out the relative percentages of each in the current community batch.

    So if 1000 swabs come in, perhaps 20 get sequenced. Then if it is 18 Delta and 2 Alpha, they say “90% Delta in the community, 10% Alpha as it fades…”

    But I could be wrong ;-) It is just a guess based on how I’d do it.

  14. E.M.Smith says:

    @Paul, Somerset:

    Interesting. My Mum would make a slightly salty (a bit over hypotensive) warm salt solution and have use gargle / snort up the nose, when we were sick. It always felt better and seemed to help. I believe it was a “family remedy” from generations past in England. We had 3 generations of Sailors in HM Merchant Marine that we know of for certain; so it might have been that the only thing Sailors had at sea was salt water…

  15. AC Osborn says:

    jim2 says: 4 September 2021 at 1:04 am

    Thanks for that.

  16. Steve C says:

    @Paul, Somerset & E.M. – Distinctly interesting. A friend who shares a house with a number of (mainly) Indians mentioned recently that nostril irrigation + gargle with salt water is a traditional Indian way of keeping the “passages” clear. I shall try it out. The theory that the cells use the chloride to make ‘bleach’ to hammer the opposition is very plausible too. But then, like all animals, we evolved from the sea, so …

    I’m just back from walking another 10 mile round trip, out to the postal delivery office to collect my beautiful Bulova Accutron on its return from its latest £250+ repair – now again singing its one-note samba on my wrist where it belongs. Should have been delivered yesterday, but their man couldn’t make it through a gate (with a note on the outside saying “the gate is uncatched”), but instead left a “you were out” card in the mailbox to which the note was stuck. Now a few more miles down to the shop & back. Ah, the joys of the modern world!

  17. AC Osborn says:

    Yes EM, definitely an “English” thing as that is what we did as kids 60 years ago.
    Also breathed in steam from a bowl of hot water with your head under a towel.
    Plus rubbed “Vick” on your chest. and under your nose.
    That is also the age of Kaolin Poultices for boils and abscesses, ouch.

  18. Paul, Somerset says:

    It’s worth noting that in the trial the salt water treatment deliberately only commenced when definite symptoms were present. So it’s likely, in my view, that it would be even more effective if used just at that point when you first feel a catch in your throat. Also that results in previous trials using just nasal sprays had been disappointing – the authors suspect that full irrigation of the nose/throat passage is needed. And that coronaviruses featured among those which were successfully treated.

    I suspect there’s little point trying to publicize this more widely. There’d just be a trial only on hospitalized patients, when the treatment was too late. Then there’d be a story about someone made ill by drinking salt water, and before you know it the sale of salt would be banned!

  19. jim2 says:

    Well, that wasn’t just an English/maritime thing back in my youth. My Southern mamma gargled salt water and had us to it for sore throats, etc. Loved Vicks Vaporub and did the hot water in a bowl with a towel over your head thing.

  20. jim2 says:

    Here’s a confused and confusing article about Delta sub-variants.

    Is there any difference between AY.12 and the other strains?

    According to INSACOG, it is not known yet whether AY.12 is clinically different from Delta or B.1.617.2.

    However, AY.12 has lost some of the mutations seen in the Delta lineage, such as G142D in spike protein. No new mutations of concern are noted in the spike protein of this variant.

    AY.12 is, at present, the most dominant strain in Israel — 51 per cent of samples studied have shown the prevalence of this variant. Based on the number of sequences that have so far been uploaded on the GISAID by Indian research groups, the prevalence of this variant over the last week has increased to over 20 per cent.

    While asking states to maintain caution and look out for this variant, INSACOG said: “AY.12, a reassigned sub-lineage of Delta is being seen in many states, but the numbers need closer examination. The functional impact of the changes between Delta and AY.12 is not known but the two appear to be very similar at a molecular level.”

  21. jim2 says:

    “We are hearing from many of our citizens that larger hospital chains and some pharmacies are refusing to prescribe safe and effective therapeutics like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin,” commissioner Neil Combee wrote, according to Florida news station WFLA.

    “When a citizen is facing a potentially life-threatening case of COVID-19, he or she should receive the ‘right to try’ potentially life-saving therapeutics,” he added.

    Polk County commissioners are expected to vote on whether to send the letter to the governor on Tuesday.

    Ivermectin, an anti-parasitic drug often used on horses and livestock, is not approved to to treat COVID-19.

  22. E.M.Smith says:


    Dr. Zelenko was prescribing HydroxyChloroQuine and curing folks (in NYC) so the government forbid it. He then did some digging and now has a protocol using OTC Quercetin 1 gm / day divided into 2 x 1/2 gram doses.

    Attempting to BAN Biology or Biochemistry is a fools errand. Unfortunately we are well supplied of fools in government and industry…

    Just to see about availability, I went to Sprouts (a local Whole Foods wanna-be grocery store) and found a bottle of Quercetin 500 mg WITH Vit-D3 already included. Just add zinc and go… It was $16 for a few hundred capsules.

    So in addition to the Ivermectin, I’ve got the Quercetin backup “Plan B” (and the identified Moxidectin as a potential “Plan C” if it comes to that…)

    “I self identify as authorized to control and use and treat my own body and mind”…

  23. E.M.Smith says:

    @AC Osborn:

    I remember the Vick’s on the chest and the towel over hot water too…


    A lot of Appalachia and The South was populated by Celts from Ireland / Scotland and folks from elsewhere in Britain. I’d expect it arrived that way.

    Then again, with the evidence that it is also part of Indian culture, who knows how long it has been around…(Wonder if it is in the Vedas?)

    Odd Sidebar:

    Whenever I visit the ocean, I like to dip a finger in it and taste the salt water… (Hey, I’ve SCUBA dived in it… and yes, I know fish poop in it…) I typically only go to less busy beaches away from cities, so with minimal “outfall” risks. (I’d not do this in any bay hear a major urban area… only rural coastal areas… which matches my general behaviour of not going to major urban areas if I can find any excuse not to go.)

    Kind of a ritual returning to the primal ocean thing…

  24. pyromancer76 says:

    Dear E.M. and other commenters, I believe that all the good numbers from HCQ and Quercetin is when (always) accompanied by zinc. The former are the ionophores that let zinc into the cells; zinc is helpless without the chemical change. It is the zinc that is the virus killer. Also, to be effective it must be used immediately at the first signs of the illness. Otherwise the virus grown exponentially during the first 7 days, supposedly even more virulently with delta or gama mutations. Of couse, ivermectin so far is the premier killer.

    One question I have, are these really mutations (of course, mutations are expected) or more virulent on the vaccinated, so called a mutation.

    E.M, thanks for your continued attention to the important issues, and thanks to your intelligent commenters for additional information. I am very grateful.

  25. cdquarles says:

    The saline solution nasal spray is available in the US (at least here) as NaSal. If you have sinusitis of any cause, this is often recommended. And yes, in the Heart of Dixie, Vicks Vapo-Rub is, or was, used often.

  26. Steve C says:

    We have Vicks Vapo-Rub in the UK, and very good too. When I was young, we usually used Mentholatum, almost identical, but (like so many) that badge seems to have been sold on so many times they only make heat rub, freezer spray and so on now. And yes, this oldie has used the old ‘towel over the head’ method in the last few years, still works A1!

    Another excellent aromatic head clearer – made in the UK, I’m not sure whether the US has it – is Olbas Oil. Active ingredients: cajuput oil, clove oil, eucalyptus oil, juniper berry oil, levomenthol, methyl salicylate and mint oil (partly dementholised). Quite addictive, and about as good at ‘decongesting’ as Vicks, available in either oil (great for the towel / bowl of hot water treatment, or on a hankie or tissue) or inhaler form. Wouldn’t be without it.

  27. E.M.Smith says:

    @Steve C:

    Oh Gawd, I’ve not thought of Mentholatum rub in 1/2 a century… only seen vix in several decades.

    Never heard of Olbas Oil… but the ingredients I’ve seen in various things in various combinations.


    Yes, the zinc ionophores (Quercetin, HCQ) only work with adequate zinc levels. And as they prevent virus replication then they are useless late in the disease AFTER virus replication had happened.

    Per Delta: It has a much heavier shedding profile (especially from vaccinated folks who don’t always have symptoms) so you get a much larger innoculum. Then it is more efficient at entering cells so you get a larger initial infection 2 ways (more sucked in that more effectively infects cells), the upshot being that instead of 5 or 6 days post infection having symptoms, it is more like 3 or 4 days and your immune system is running 2 whole days later in the process, so the exponential has 2 extra days of doubling times… All of which means you need to be doing prophylaxis before exposure or “jump on it” 2 days sooner…

  28. Ossqss says:

    I have an Orange bottle version of this and burned like hell, but kicked things out of me in 2 days not long ago. 3 day limit on usage as it is addictive.

  29. AC Osborn says:

    One of the MSM lies about Ivermectin shown for what it is.

    It is statement by the actual health authority.

  30. Terry Jackson says:

    That’s a lot of winter clothes and leafless trees for Oklahoma in September.

  31. another ian says:

    “Pfizer Releases Brand New, Never-Before-Seen Drug ‘Pfivermectin’”


    “Lies, Damn Lies and Horseshit News”

  32. another ian says:

    And an obvious question – did that doctor

    “get his picture on the cover of the Rolling Stone”?

  33. YMMV says:

    “One of the MSM lies about Ivermectin shown for what it is.”

    More on that:

    I think it is a case of “we have to take down Joe Rogan” by the Main Shill Media.

  34. gallopingcamel says:

    Jim2 has it right,
    Countries that put their faith in vaccines while banning HCQ & Ivermectin have a terrible record. They let bureaucrats over ride the judgement of front line doctors with disastrous results. Thus the USA, Brazil and most of Europe have death rates of more than 1,000 per million of population in stark contrast to India or Japan:

    Uttar Pradesh is the largest Indian state with about 240 million people compared to the USA’s 340 million. Uttar Pradesh suffered a wave Delta variant infections that progressed as follows:

    March 18, 250 cases per day……….start of the wave
    April 23, 7,000 cases per day……..peak of the wave
    June 16, 250 cases per day…………end of the wave

    Thus the wave lasted roughly 13 weeks during which time there were a TOTAL of 1,097,292 infections and 13,163 deaths.

    Here in the USA the Delta variant has taken a much greater toll:

    June 25, 12,600 cases per day…………start of the wave
    August 27, 162,000 cases per day…..peak of the wave
    September 3, June 154,000 cases per day…………no end in sight

    Thus the wave has lasted 10 weeks so far during which time there were a total of 6,127,212 infections and 44,561 deaths. By the time the wave dies out ten to twelve weeks from now you can double both of those numbers.

    The CDC and the FDA are run by people who can’t admit their errors. They don’t care how much suffering they cause.

    Meanwhile in Uttar Pradesh there were 159 new cases this week compared to our 1,077,271.

  35. gallopingcamel says:

    While I agree with you about the efficacy of Ivermectin the statistics for the Czech republic are awful:

    Czechia, 30,406 deaths, 10.732 million population = 2,833 deaths per million population
    Brazil, 583,628 deaths, 214.3 million population = 2,723 deaths per million population
    USA, 666,219 deaths, 333.3 million population = 1,999 deaths per million population
    India, 440,785 deaths, 1,396.0 million population = 316 deaths per million population
    Japan, 16,369 deaths, 126.0 million population = 130 deaths per million population
    South Korea, 2,327 deaths, 51.3 million population = 45 deaths per million population
    Taiwan (ROC), 837 deaths, 23.1 million population = 36 deaths per million population
    China (PRC), 4,848 deaths, 1,445.9 million population = 3 deaths per million population

    If the CDC/FDA mandarins are so smart why does the USA lead the world in COVID deaths? India has a six times lower death rate than the USA while the death rate in Japan is 15 times lower.

    If our death rate was comparable with Japan’s only 43,000 people would have died instead of 666,000. Over 600,000 avoidable deaths yet nobody has gone to jail or been fired!

    We are a nation of sheep led by unaccountable nurse Rachetts.

  36. David A says:

    Uttar Pradesh went strong into Ivermectin.

    We will see what happens as we move into the fall. My working hypothesis is the vaccine pattern of inoculation will determine the next wave as vaccine efficacy fails. It fails when antibody numbers fall below a critical threshold. And it fails hard, as 40 percent are lost each month. Thus UCSD with their 18,000 employees had a five month run of plus 90 percent vaccine efficacy, followed by a July plunge of 40 percent, with August numbers expected to be worse.

  37. cdquarles says:

    As long as Hope-Simpson seasonality holds, the true prevalence will fall as local autumn progresses, in the tropical and subtropical areas. It will then rise in the Southern Hemisphere tropical and subtropical areas as their local summer progresses. People need to get out of the mid-latitude mentality for this virus family, versus some others, when talking about the tropics and subtropics. (Hmm, time for the rhinoviruses to pick up, and some others, too; as autumn approaches in the Northern Hemisphere.)

  38. AC Osborn says:

    cdquarles says: 6 September 2021 at 2:37 pm

    Sorry, I don’t think seasonality nesessarily applies to this virus, I think Variants also apply.
    It started in Europe in March 2020, there was a second wave peaking in January for many and then another wave in July.
    Where does the July wave fit in to seasonality?
    In fact quite a few european countries had an almost pre winter wave and then an intermediate wave in March/April 2021 as well.

  39. Ossqss says:

    Picked up a tidbit from a conversation with someone in the pharmaceutical business. It was said that the CDC would not issue an EUA for an unproven vaccine if there were therapeutics that worked on a pathogen. Could this be why there is so much downplay on the therapeutics that seem to actually be working?

  40. AC Osborn says:

    gallopingcamel says: 6 September 2021 at 4:02 am
    While I agree with you about the efficacy of Ivermectin the statistics for the Czech republic are awful:

    Czechia is a very special case, they started early with home made masks and had one of the best controlled first wave in Europe.
    However because it was so good they relaxed everything in the summer.
    The next wave around October was big, they had switched from HCQ to Remdesivir, which as we now know can lead to bad outcomes on it’s own due to organ failure.
    They also then started a vaccination progamme, which like many seemed to create a storm of cases.
    For a classic example look at Vietnam.

  41. E.M.Smith says:

    Remember to look at sun exposure when addressing seasonality. Places with seasonal low Vit-D will have seasonal illness too. But places with lots of folks in the sun, not so much (India… vs N. Europe).

  42. YMMV says:

    “Uttar Pradesh went strong into Ivermectin.”

    I heard (trialsitenews I think) that the WHO claimed a big victory there but failed to mention that IVM was involved.

    BTW, I have not heard of any follow ups to IVM successes. What I want to know is whether in places where Covid was rampant and then went back to lower levels, for the people who did not become a Covid case, did they get exposed and get immunity? In particular, did the people using IVM, did they get Covid antibodies and immunity?

  43. cdquarles says:

    For corona viruses, the epidemic season for the mid-latitudes (Europe) would be the local winter and spring. For the tropics and subtropics, the local summer (either wet or dry season, depending on other local factors). Variant strains should still follow the family seasonality, though seeding will alter that, somewhat. This is one reason why I am skeptical of the local reporting from late 2020. Last summer and this summer’s reporting fit the known seasonality pattern.

  44. The True Nolan says:

    Australian lady with Nurse mom working at assisted care home “speaks” out.

    It is a common belief that “anecdote” does not equal “data”. That is only as true as the honesty, interpretive ability, and reliability of the observer. In theory, scientist are specially trained to be good observers, hence the usual distinction between anecdote and data. In the real world? Let’s just say that there are exceptions…

  45. AC Osborn says:

    Ossqss says: 6 September 2021 at 3:12 pm
    Yes, but it is not a case of “would not” it is a case of “can’t legally”, but I think it is the FDA that does the issueing.

  46. E.M.Smith says:


    IMO: “Anecdote” is just the singular of “data” and “data” are just plural anecdotes. The question of quality of observer applies in all cases…

  47. another ian says:


    “A grim explanation for the official campaign against HCQ and Ivermectin”

  48. The True Nolan says:

    @another ian: “A grim explanation for the official campaign against HCQ and Ivermectin”

    Grim, yes… Sadly, not unexpected. $$$$$$$

    If we have some sort of Nuremburg trials there will b a LOT of people in the dock, and most of them will be Doctors. Oh, well… they were “only following orders.”

    I am currently reading a book on the trial of Nazi official Adolf Eichmann. His defense? “I didn’t really want the Jews dead. All I did was arrange transportation to the units that killed them. Why? Because I was ordered to.”

  49. another ian says:

    Big Pharma no idea

    “Vaccine Failure and the Way Out

    As with the vaccine roll-out, the stage was set for everybody to say that they had defeated Corona, fold up shop and go home. This is, you will note, exactly what China did. They tightened official testing criteria, declared the pandemic over with and never looked back. Western countries, though, kept the ball in the air all summer long, just as they are keeping the ball in the air now.

    Until now, Corona policy in every western country has unfolded more or less according to the same script, devised by the World Health Organization at the end of February 2020. The final act was supposed to be the wide-scale eradication of Corona after mass vaccination. It is now clear that this will never happen. For the first time since March 2020, there is no obvious international consensus on the way forward.

    Good read.”

    Links to

    Looks like more reading there too

  50. The True Nolan says:

    @another ian: “The final act was supposed to be the wide-scale eradication of Corona after mass vaccination. It is now clear that this will never happen.”

    The final act of the invasion of Afghanistan was supposed to be the wide-scale eradication of terrorists after mass military attack. It is now clear that this will never happen.

    Why fix a wonderfully profitable problem, one that gives you more and more money and power the longer you keep it going?

  51. jim2 says:

    Military-Industrial Complex. Government-Big Pharma Complex.

  52. another ian says:

    Now this on “vaccines” – not good for the “needley confidant”

    “From JAMA: Proof They’re AT BEST Worthless”

    And re the one above and China as mentioned there – just heard about the shipping delay problems currently being caused in China

  53. The True Nolan says:

    Nothing technical, just a bit of simple commentary on the jab vs un-jab decision, sent to me by an acquaintance:

    (I do my best to stay away from all things Facebook. Gotta go wash my hands now…)

  54. E.M.Smith says:


    Attempts to open the link to inspect it gave me a “must log in” message. It DOES display in the page (above). On the off chance it, too, will evaporate, I’m doing a copy / paste of the text here (for posterity…)

    Off the Wall

    Mike – I read several months ago that you got the vaccine. I’m glad. But I’m also curious. You have a lot of people on this page who respect your opinion – many of whom I’d wager are unvaccinated. Have you encouraged them to follow your example? If not, what are you waiting for? As you surely know, Delta is raging. The sooner we’re all vaccinated, the sooner we can get back to normal!

    Steve Manchin

    Hi Steve

    The short answer is no – I have not publicly encouraged anyone to get vaccinated. In fact, I have recently declined to participate in several PSA’s designed to persuade people to get the jab. That’s not because I’m opposed to vaccines, obviously. Vaccines have saved more lives than any other advancement in the long history of medicine, and to your point, I got the shots the minute I was eligible. But I’m not a doctor, Steve, and even though I occasionally play one on TV, I’m not inclined to dispense medical advice to the people on this page.

    True, I did appear in a few PSA’s early on, back when they assured us that locking down was essential to keeping our hospitals from being overrun. “Two weeks to flatten the curve!” Remember that one? That of course, turned out to be untrue, and I regret my role in helping perpetuate that particular falsehood. I also regret what I said during the first Zoom show to air in primetime. It was an episode of After the Catch, where I discussed the lockdowns with a few crab-boat captains. At one point, I looked into the camera lens on my computer and said, with uncharacteristic earnestness, “For the first time in a long time, it appears we’re all in the same boat.”

    Well, I was wrong about that, too. We were not in the same boat, not then or now. We were in the same storm, but our boats were very different. Some prospered during the lockdowns and rode out the gale in yachts and pleasure crafts. Others floundered and weathered the storm in rowboats and dinghies. Some had no boat at all and hung on for dear life to whatever flotsam and jetsam they could find. Point is, I said some things I regret back then, and spoke too broadly to too many. Thus, the only thing I’ll say now regarding the vaccine, is that there is risk in everything we do, and there is risk in everything we don’t do. Thus, there is risk in getting vaccinated, and there is risk in not getting vaccinated. Obviously, I made my decision, but again, I’m not a doctor. Thus, I am not equipped to answer questions like, “But Mike, if the vaccine is so safe, why hasn’t the FDA approved it? Or, “But Mike, if the vaccine is so effective, why is the government now treating us all as if we’re unvaccinated?”

    These are fair and reasonable questions, and I have no logical reply. Here in California if you’re inside, you must now wear a mask, vaccinated or not. What kind of message does that send?Yes, we have a new variant, and from what I’ve read, it’s highly contagious, but far less virulent – especially if you’re vaccinated. According to the CDC, just one 1 in 27,000 vaccinated people have contracted it. That means if you’re vaccinated, you’re more likely to get struck by lightning than contract COVID. And yet, people are once again calling for more lockdowns, more restrictions, and more compliance from those who already got their shots.

    The fact is, millions of reasonable Americans have every right to feel confused and skeptical. Those people you refer to, Steve – the ones now telling us that we can “get back to normal just as soon as everyone is vaccinated” – those are the same people who said, “two weeks to flatten the curve!” Those are the same people who told us that masks were “useless” before they told us they were “critical.” Those are the same people who told us that a return to normalcy would occur just as soon as “the most vulnerable” among us were vaccinated. Then, just as soon as “half the population” was vaccinated. Then, just as soon as we achieved “herd immunity.” Those are the same people who told us they wouldn’t trust ANY vaccine developed under the last administration. Now, those very same people are belittling the skeptics!

    If this were a Peanuts cartoon, those people would be Lucy, pulling away the football at the last moment while a nation full of Charlie Browns land flat on their collective back, over and over and over again. Those people you refer to – elected officials, journalists, and most disturbingly, more than a few medical experts – have moved the goalposts time and time again, while ignoring the same rules and restrictions they demand we all live by. They’re always certain, usually wrong, incapable of shame, and utterly void of humility. Is it any wonder millions find them unpersuasive?

    I’m sorry, Steve, but even if I were an actual doctor, I wouldn’t know what to say to the skeptics on this page. But as a fake one, I’ll say this. Every single American who wants the vaccine has had the opportunity to get it – for free. Those who have declined will not be persuaded by the likes of me. At this point, I’m afraid the the government has but one course of sensible action – get the FDA on board, stat, and then, provide an honest, daily breakdown of just how quickly the virus is spreading among the unvaccinated, versus the vaccinated. No more threats, no more judgments, no more politics, no more celebrity-driven PSA’s, no more ham-fisted attempts at public shaming. Just a steady flow of verifiable data that definitively proves that the vast, undeniable, overwhelming majority of people who get this disease are unvaccinated.

    In other words, give us the facts, admit your mistakes, try on a bit of humility, and stop treating the unvaccinated like the enemy.


    PS Dirty Jobs, as the attached photo should prove, is coming back. New episodes probably start in October. The doctor will see you then…

    Photo of guy in scrubs covered in blood spatter omitted…

  55. Ossqss says:

    @EM, I just clicked on the “see more” and it all appeared below the image.

  56. E.M.Smith says:


    Yes, that’s how I got a copy. I typically “click the link” in the comments management page or “copy paste” a link that doesn’t open via a click; that fails. Any attempt to directly access it via the link, gave me a “please log in” message.

    So it only works via the posting.

    Since I don’t know why that is or what is causing it, or if that will fail due to some minor change at WordPress or Facebook at some future time, I clicked the “see more” and did a copy / paste as insurance.

  57. The True Nolan says:

    @EM: Thanks, EM! You are excellent at unscrewing the inscrutable. I found it refreshing to read a rational essay by a non-medical, non-political, non-scientist. :)

    For anyone interested, here is a newer interview with Dr. Robert Malone. He speaks against the imposition of universal vaccination. I think the last 20 minutes are the most interesting. He speaks about the possibilities of ADE, the quality of data, and on possible motivations for the complete and continuing lack of prudent or even logical decisions (what he calls “a profound paradox”) on how to react to COVID. (Hint… $$$)

  58. another ian says:

    And another Fauci connection

    “It appears, does it not, that Fauci lied. Both he and his wife, Christine Grady, who chairs bioethics at the NIH and who “conveniently” has been ignored by the media and everyone else, and who, it must be presumed, any grant proposals would have to go through and be approved by, ought to be in irons right now.”

  59. E.M.Smith says:

    One heck of a good rant (via the SDA link from Another Ian above):

  60. E.M.Smith says:

    Aaaand a link from that link… Ethics Professor loses her job over practicing the Ethics she teaches…

    FWIW, I’m likely to lose my present job over the same thing. I’ve not yet inspected the paper, but I’ve been given a form to fill out about vaccine mandates to work in a medical facility…

    For me, it’s not a big deal. I’m mostly doing this to “Help out a friend” when his I.T. guy retired. It is part time, and I don’t need the job. Yet I’m looking right at the mandate.

    No, I won’t go down the path of irreversible immune system training to a partial spike protein with a vaccine that is already (now) shown to NOT prevent infection and NOT prevent transmission and IS shown to select for more aggressive “variants”. Maybe it reduces disease severity when a vaccinated person becomes infected, or maybe we just need another month and another 40% drop in neutralizing antibodies so that the non-neutralizing antibodies can effect Antibody Dependent Enhancement ADE and start killing people… And only time can tell. I have self-selected into the “Control Group” and unlike Pfizer, I won’t throw away the control group in this experiment.

    You either have courage or you don’t. You either follow your convictions or you don’t. I’ve dealt with a lot of Aggressive Bullies in my life, and the folks pushing this vexxine set off all my warning bells about Aggressive Bullies. They impress me as Sociopathic Manipulators lacking scruples. So in answer to her question of “Who?”, I answer that I’d certainly not trust them.

    I’d rather be alive, happy, healthy, and true to my beliefs, than not. I will not surrender myself to the dictates of inferior human beings.

  61. H.R. says:

    @E.M. – Ditto!

    I am open to a vaccine of some sort, but it will have to be a d@mn far, far sight better than the current offerings.

    Despite all of the attempts at suppression, I’m satisfied that Ivermectin is a very good preventative, and if I get too big of a snootful of the Omega variant ;), I can up the dose and just have a survivable case of the flu. We shall see.

  62. E.M.Smith says:

    Paranoid Step Too Far, or Prescient Prognostication? Would take a lot more time to Dig Here! through all his pointers to vet them all. OTOH, what I do already know of the background does fit his statements. Some bits, though, are a bit OTT stretched. Like calling it a “Simulation”. Yes, computer simulations are done to get molecular fit data ( I don’t know of any other way to get it really as we can’t handle single molecules and hand fit them…). Insisting on calling it “not a vaccine” when really it is just playing with definitions that The Left does all the time. (I’m not condoning it as I hate playing definition games… but calling out one doesn’t make it a giant crime against humanity…)

    I do think there’s plenty of room in The Facts for various mixtures and ranges of Nobel Cause Corruption, Fraud, Greed, Normal Business Practices and more. Sorting it A LOT needs doing.

    But if even 1/2 of his assertions are proved up, it’s damning. Basically saying the whole pandemic is a Plandemic for weaponized viruses and weaponized vaccines for the purposes of greed and power. I generally don’t lean that way. However… I don’t see any proof to the contrary either.
    1 hour:

  63. another ian says:

    Seems like IVM for internal use in animals has disappeared from the market in Oz this week.

  64. another ian says:

    “The Ronacoaster, Once You Get in the Vaccine Car You Ain’t Getting Off Until The Ride’s Over
    September 8, 2021 | Sundance | 117 Comments”

  65. The True Nolan says:

    16 minute video of a doctor examining consequences of Remdesivir usage in treating COVID patients. Well worth watching, but bottom line: many deaths (30%? 40?%?) of COVID patients were the predictable result of using Remdesivir, not from the virus.

  66. H.R. says:

    @TTN – And just who has a stake in Remdesivir? Hmmmmm……???

    I don’t want to get you, E.M., or this blog in trouble, but let’s just say my moment of sorrow would be very, very brief if FauXi were to trip on his own shoelaces while visiting that mile high overlook of the Grand Canyon.


  67. The True Nolan says:

    @EM: ” Basically saying the whole pandemic is a Plandemic for weaponized viruses and weaponized vaccines for the purposes of greed and power. ”

    I think he is right. This has been in the works for years. Think back… How long have we been seeing “anti-vaxxers” demonized without any substantive discussion of the facts? How long have we seen odd clusterings of virologists, epidemiologists, and biochemists dying in peculiar circumstances? It looks like to me like setting up a situation where people are more likely to accept an experimental shot.

  68. The True Nolan says:

    One more quick comment. Everyone knows “supply and demand”. Supply goes up cost goes down. Supply goes down, cost goes up. But that is only half of the relationship. Demand goes up, cost goes up. Demand goes down, cost goes down. If I were a psychopath who wanted cost to go down so I could buy up almost ANYTHING I WANTED, one very productive method would to be to reduce demand. The easiest way to reduce demand? Well… dead people don’t demand much.

    Anyone think that a bunch of psychopaths would NEVER commit mass murder? Really? How’s that prohibition of Ivermectin coming along? How many people are dead because of that? Is there a fundamental difference between the man who would murder 100,000 compared to the man who would murder 1,000,000?

  69. E.M.Smith says:

    Well, in the mode of increasing paranoia and escalating panic… How about asking Michael Yeadon to tell us what he really thinks?

    If it were anyone less qualified than him, I’ll call it a bit too far into paranoia land… OTOH, he knows this stuff better than I ever will (and I’m not too shabby at it…)

    April 26, 2021 – Interview with Michael Yeadon, former Vice President and Chief Science Officer of Pfizer, where he worked for 16 years.

    He outlines his position on the pandemic, the vaccine, the issue of variants, boosters and the loss of our civil liberties. It is truly an appeal to the world.

    Among other things that raised an eyebrow is his assertion that the “Variants” are NOT escaping immunity, that’s just a scare tactic. His evidence is interesting. Seems they are a fractional percent different… OK… and there was a test done on those who had the original Sars-1 infection. Not only did they have lifelong immunity, they also had an immune response to SARS-2 that is 20% different… So (at least for natural immunity) variants are not very important.

    He also asserts that a “top up” or “booster” shot makes no sense and the only thing he can see that does make sense is as a depopulation ploy. I’d dispute that a little in that we now know neutralizing antibodies decay at 40% / month and a booster gets them back up to effective levels for a few more months. (Of course, that could just be a delay of onset of ADE until more jabs are done so then the plug can be pulled… so it could be “both”…)

    Still, for someone of his caliber to be thinking, basically, ~’WT? this is nuts…’ makes me feel a little less nuts ;-)

    58 Minutes

  70. E.M.Smith says:

    “Is there a fundamental difference between the man who would murder 100,000 compared to the man who would murder 1,000,000?”

    Yes, their rank… 100,000 is a General. 1M to 30 M is Dear Leader…

  71. The True Nolan says:

    @EM: “Yes, their rank… 100,000 is a General. 1M to 30 M is Dear Leader…”

    I see you have been ratcheting up your cynicism! (I’m not saying you are wrong to do so, either!) There does seem to be a connection to Big Leaders and Big Death Count. I never could understand why in school all the “greatest Presidents” were the ones who failed to keep us out of wars. I always liked Grover Cleveland… Not too much destruction on his shift.

    I am reminded of this cartoon I saw:

  72. cdquarles says:

    On the other hand, try as you might to stay out of wars; they still can be brought to you. That is one reason why “Peace through Strength” works, but you have to show willingness to use that strength. Ours is a fallen world. Human nature is prone to evil. Power lust (which gets you money) is but one form of the evil.

  73. H.R. says:

    @TTN re Grover Cleveland – Wasn’t he the President who installed the first bathtub in the Whitehouse?

    If that’s all he did, well then good on Ol’ Grover. That means there were four years of “UNinteresting Times.”

  74. E.M.Smith says:

    Talk about your “clean politician” ;-)

  75. The True Nolan says:

    @HR “Wasn’t he the President who installed the first bathtub in the Whitehouse?”

    I don’t think that was him. Cleveland served two non-consecutive terms in the last part of the 19th century. He was defeated after his first term but then reelected 4 years later. One reason why I like Cleveland is that he vetoed more bills than any other President for the very peculiar reason that the US Constitution did not authorize expenditures of that nature.

    Wiki says:
    In 1887, Cleveland issued his most well-known veto, that of the Texas Seed Bill.[115] After a drought had ruined crops in several Texas counties, Congress appropriated $100,000 (equivalent to $2,880,370 in 2020) to purchase seed grain for farmers there.[115] Cleveland vetoed the expenditure. In his veto message, he espoused a theory of limited government:

    “I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people. The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.[116]”

    I am reminded of the Davy Crockett story, “Not Yours To Give”.

  76. E.M.Smith says:


    They make rules, we evade them… Hey, it can make for a fun game. After all, where’s the challenge of “beer on the beach” ;-) Having a resistance game is good for my Passive Aggressive nature ;-)

    If “the rules” become too draconian and / or impossible to evade, then will be time for Diplomacy (i.e. elections and voting) or if the Elections continue to be “Fraud Faux Election Theatre”, then I suppose it will become “Diplomacy by other means” for some…

    FWIW, we are already doing “Contingency Planning” for getting to Florida. Basic plan has things like “Spouse flies in after home sells” and I drive out with dogs. Contingencies?

    IFF Flight Ban for unvexxed happens, but starts a month from now, Spouse flies out on first flight we can book (car already in Florida for her, pre-positioned many weeks ago). I hire movers to move everything into storage and load up car with dogs and hit the road. Hand keys to house to Realtor and say “Fix and sell, send money”.

    IFF Flight Ban hits by surprise: We buy an RV, stuff goes via movers to storage, keys to realtor, we hit the road, with the dogs, towing car.

    IFF some idiot thinks they can do “Border Checks” between States and we’ve not bugged out before they get it rolling (unlikely, but who knows…) then I’ve already studied my map books and have several “alternative” State Line crossing for each state. Some down to dirt roads… so would change the type of RV…

    Frankly, I think I’d really like to have a big jeep or even a Humvee with a rugged tow behind tent trailer. Spouse doesn’t want one (Class A girl…) but IF I’m given an excuse ;-)

    Then, the “Ultimate Fallback”:

    Spouse is in Florida, house to realtor, cars being shipped via a car hauler, I can’t fly and I can’t cross State Lines due to, say, National Guard on every goat trail? No Problem. I buy a nice 40 foot or so Single Hander rigged boat, and sail to Florida. Me, to port authority: “Yup, just going out for a bit of a sail”…. then just point it toward Mexico… At Florida “Yup, I’ve been sailing for months. Restrictions you say? Well, not heard of those, but I’m a Florida resident. Spouse is at this address, our home, and here’s my Florida ID…” But I’m pretty sure the Free State Of Florida would not be an issue… FWIW, my “Captain” with needed training and papers is already prepped… so I likely would not need to single hand it, but makes it easier when one person is asleep. He’s vaccinated so could do any “going ashore” stuff needed.

    Do I think anything close to that will happen? Nope, not at all. Am I ready if it does? Oh yeah…

    Viva la resistance! (God it would be fun to play this game out… I find myself hoping my Sunset Years are spent as a Captain of the Resistance, by sea or land… Is there a name for that state where you really really really want the other guy to take a swing at you?…)

  77. The True Nolan says:

    Interesting article regarding danger of substituting codons in the vaccine created spike proteins.
    I have not yet watched the entire video.
    “One key take-home from the Nature Reviews Drug Discovery article5 cited above is that replacing rare codons “must be used judiciously,” as rarer codons can have slower translation rates and a slowed-down rate is actually necessary to prevent protein misfolding.
    The spike protein is the toxic part of the virus responsible for the most unique effects of the virus, such as the blood clotting disorders, neurological problems and heart damage. To expect the COVID shot to not produce these kinds of effects would be rather naïve.
    A (adenine) and U (uracil) in the third position are rare, and the COVID shots replace these A’s and U’s with G’s (guanine) or C’s (cytosine). According to Seneff, this switch results in a 1,000-fold greater amount of spike protein compared to being infected with the actual virus.
    What could go wrong? Well, just about anything. Again, the shot induces spike protein at levels unheard of in nature (even if SARS-CoV-2 is a “souped up” manmade concoction), and the spike protein is the toxic part of the virus responsible for the most unique effects of the virus, such as the blood clotting disorders, neurological problems and heart damage.
    So, to expect the COVID shot to not produce these kinds of effects would be rather naïve. The codon switches might also result in protein misfolding, which is equally bad news. “

  78. Steve C says:

    There’s an interesting article entitled “Resolving “Long-Haul COVID” and Vaccine Toxicity: Neutralizing the Spike Protein” here:
    From June, but he is a doctor. Vit C, IVM, HCQ, quercetin etc all get honorable mention (or: “we’re pretty much on the right path here” ;-)

  79. E.M.Smith says:

    @Steve C:

    From that link, another one that asserts independent replication of spike protein:

    Furthermore, it also appears that these circulating spike proteins can enter cells on their own and replicate themselves without attached virus particles. This not only wreaks havoc inside those cells, it helps to assure the indefinite presence of the spike protein throughout the body.

    It think that bit needs a bit of a Dig Here! to find the original research on that, if any. I don’t know of any separate “replicate protein” mechanism, but there’s a lot still to learn about how cells work. Still, my initial response is “Maybe they missed something about mRNA longevity or some kind of reverse transcriptase making longer lived DNA…”

  80. jim2 says:

    Orthomolecular medicine[1][2] is a form of alternative medicine that aims to maintain human health through nutritional supplementation. The concept builds on the idea of an optimal nutritional environment in the body and suggests that diseases reflect deficiencies in this environment. Treatment for disease, according to this view, involves attempts to correct “imbalances or deficiencies based on individual biochemistry” by use of substances such as vitamins, minerals, amino acids, trace elements and fatty acids.[3][4][5] The notions behind orthomolecular medicine are not supported by sound medical evidence, and the therapy is not effective;[6][7] even the validity of calling the orthomolecular approach a form of medicine has been questioned since the 1970s.[8]

  81. E.M.Smith says:


    Don’t know if your ‘cite’ of Wiki was as “authority” or as “snark” but…

    Note that a LOT of diseases are cured by fixing “imbalances or deficiencies based on individual biochemistry”… so the conclusion that it’s a bit “bunk” is itself bunk.

    A PARTIAL list:

    Scurvy, rickets, beri-beri, spina bifida (prevention via maternal B vitamins), cold sores (personal experience with topical vit-C), likely Heart Disease and plaque (many articles about a year back posted here), Diabetes type 2, hypoglycemia, hypertension, night blindness, anemia, goiter, low appetite, brittle bones, bad teeth & bones, excess bleeding, a variety of skin issues (Vit-A), some conjunctivitis, hypocobaliminemia, pellegra, some parasthesia, photophobia, osteomalacia, various skin rashes and cracking, various anemias and muscle weakness, reduced brain size (iodine deficiency and / or omega-3 deficiency and / or severe iron deficiency), Mg deficiency can cause: nausea, vomiting, hair loss, poor wound healing, weakness, fatigue, abnormal heart rhythm; similarly Zinc but including loss of sense of smell and taste, and a whole lot more.

    And that’s without even getting into the problems caused by too MUCH of various nutrients and individual variations. Like my spouse who gets kidney stones so we must prevent oxalate in her diet and she is NOT to take excess Vit-C. Yes, kidney stones can be a metabolic disease caused by the food you eat.

    So, IMHO, the very FIRST thing an M.D. ought to check is nutritional status (this can be as simple as a quick blood test and / or just asking “What did you have for meals the last 2 days?” as a gross guide. (That is, if the answer is “Toast & Sugar Pops, A jam sandwich and coke, and then we had KFC with biscuits & gravy for dinner” you know you have a problem. Not enough fiber, plant vitamins, minerals like iodine, etc. Similarly if it is “Vegan rice w/vegan oat milk, a vegan cress sandwich, and for dinner, a vegan Tofurkey with cous-cous that’s another whole set of defficiences from Vit-B12 to C to Omega-3 fatty acids and more).

    IF you have not made sure the basic metabolism is provisioned and operating as expected the rest of your “search for the cause” is problematic.

    Do I think it can cure cancer or set a broken leg? Nope (though maybe prevent some of them). But if all you do is look for physical trauma, bacteria & viruses: You will miss a whole lot of what is wrong with a person.

    Oh, and then there’s the whole laundry list of diseases caused by folks having different genetics and / or mutations that are known to be a problem with, or without, certain foods. A couple that are well known are different “adaptations in progress” of humans to malaria. Sickle Cell Anemia and Favism. Some Jews & Middle Eastern folks can’t eat Fava Beans or the have major issues from increased oxidative stress. There’s a lot more.

    Oh, and that also is ignoring the issue of individual immune reactions to specific foods. I get arthritic hands if I eat a lot of “cow stuff” or tomato products. I’m pretty much fine if I don’t (and focus more on fish, Asian cooking in general). My M.D. thought I ought to take aspirin and come back when it got worse…

    At least the Orthomolecular Medicine folks are paying attention to that stuff.

    Personally, I’d consider it a “specialty” inside standard western medicine. Like pediatrics or podiatry. Just these folks look at metabolism and its inputs.

  82. jim2 says:

    EMS – posted for what it’s worth context. Of course there is a place for nutrition in Western medicine – it’s there already.

    I do see claims that OM can cure cancer. This can be a real problem if someone turns to them when it might be curable otherwise.

  83. cdquarles says:

    Given that cancer is a syndrome that has multiple causes and some of the effects are immune system related, saying orthomolecular medicine will cure cancer is a major stretch; though it will help some with specific deficiencies or specific developmental anomalies in their metabolism. Some people have aspects of their metabolism that increase toxicity of chemicals extant in nature (and again, there is no chemical man can make that the rest of nature can’t; and some seem to have magical thinking when it comes to chemicals). That said to bolster jim2’s point.

  84. jim2 says:

    I know a lady who has a major aversion to “chemicals.” As a chemist, I found that pretty amusing. It is accurate to say, just about everything on Earth is a chemical or made of chemicals. Elements are considered by chemists to be chemicals. Molecules are chemicals. Plasmas, dark energy, dark matter (if those exist), and elementary particles excepted.

  85. E.M.Smith says:

    Given that “cancer” is a zoo of different diseases, I’d not be surprised to find that Orthomolecular Medicine could cure one or the other of them as they span such a wide range.

    OTOH, IF I had a melanoma, I’m going to the skin surgeon…

    I’m more convinced that it has a shot at reducing the prevalence or preventing some cancers. I could see, for example, being more virus resistant as reducing the number of virus induced cancers, or in general just having the immune system working well being good at killing off cancers just starting out. (One of the complaints about the vaccine is that it shifts the white blood cell types in a direction prone to reducing innate cancer suppression…)

    I just don’t like dissing someone or some field of study when it does have some good bits in it. Like Chiropractic, vilified for decades by M.D.s. Yes, any claim of “cures cancer” on their part is likely daft. OTOH, when I’ve got a nerve pinched by a joint they can fix it, the M.D. gives me aspirin and sends me home. (Had that with sciatica… now gone ;-)

    Basically, I’m interested in a much more fine grained Dissing ;-) (“A pox on both their houses, but a very finely focused one!” ;-)

  86. jim2 says:

    I wasn’t dissing, just giving context to the article.

  87. Graeme No.3 says:

    Yes, as a (former) chemist I too am bemused. I used to point out that their food and body were composed of chemicals. It was never well received, and usually not believed.
    A little anecdote:
    While working in a suger refinery we had a delegation from the new Head Rabbi inspecting the process. As the Production Manager was leading the walk around the site, one of the group, who’d been there before, took him to one side and suggested that when they got to the decolourising process he shouldn’t emphasis that it used bone char (which was the method years ago). He took the hint and at the end of the tour a pallet load of refined sugar received the Official Kosher stamp.

    We started processing with raw sugar, but some people didn’t want that “refined muck”. So every so often I got to drive the front end loader into the piles of raw sugar, and as the surface was almost like concrete, this involved rotating the bucket and charging the pile, like an old fashioned knight going at a dragon. The broken lumps could then be scooped up and dumped on the Shaker conveyor. This had a double screen, the courser top one screened out the really hard lumps of sugar, the dead rats and pigeons. The second screened out the rat and pigeon poo. The free flowing raw sugar was then packed into 20kg. hessian sacks and delivered (on the back of trucks) to Health Stores, where it was repacked into small paper bags and sold at anything from 4 times upwards of the buying cost. There was quite a big market for this “healthy” version, so much so that the suger company installed a plant in one of their sugarmills. Freshly made raw sugar was fed into stainless steel equipment (regularly steam cleaned) and washed with steam, dried and automatically packed into plastic bags. No dead rats, pigeons, detritus from shipping or contact with conveyor belts or concrete floors.
    It wasn’t well received “it lacked the real goodness”! AH! the good old days!

  88. E.M.Smith says:

    My favorite “Chemical” exception is “Organic”… I have to make a mental note every time someone says they only eat “organic” that they are not saying the eat a salt free diet… Salt being the only inorganic food I know of…

    I’ve also, finally, gotten to the point where I internally translate “chemical allergy” to “synthetic dies, fragrances, and maybe pesticide allergy”…

  89. jim2 says:

    As a kid, we visited the Arkansas relatives. Slept in a cockroach infested room. Got up in the morning, helped milk the cow, sieved out the flies with a dish cloth, and had it for breakfast. I lived through it after all, but wouldn’t want to do that on a regular basis.

  90. Simon Derricutt says:

    I just saw Biden tell the USA an outright lie. He said the vaccine is safe and has FDA approval. The variant of the vaccine codenamed “Cominarty” has FDA approval, but that’s not the one being delivered into arms, and has not been mass-produced.

    That sleight of hand again….

  91. H.R. says:

    It always cracks me up to hear someone say we should only be eating organic foods.

    I usually get a bit snarky and say something along the lines of, “I tried that and it didn’t agree with me, so now I only eat inorganic foods.” Theme and variations on that depending on the circumstances.

    What amazes me is that, present company and peers in my age group excepted, anyone under about ummmm… 30 – 35 doesn’t get it.

    I do like the term “processed foods.” That tells me I’m not getting just a can of pork and beans, but that I’ll have 10 minutes of heavy reading ahead of me as I read the list of ingredients on the label, some of which are only found in this galaxy.

  92. Paul, Somerset says:

    A lady I’d known from university days was diagnosed with ovarian cancer three years ago, and received chemotherapy. I went to visit her, and discovered she was vegetarian. My first thought was that chemo often causes anaemia, and her vegetarianism was not going to help with that. But I’m not medically trained, and it was clear from her commitment to vegetarianism that if I’d mentioned my concern, she would not have welcomed it or acted on it. So I said nothing. I didn’t want to cause any bad feeling in the circumstances.

    Last year she died in her sleep of heart failure. Would anaemia, and the lack of oxygen-bearing red blood cells have contributed to that? I can’t say for sure, but perhaps an orthomolecular approach to her illness, alongside the mainstream chemotherapy, would have encouraged her to get some bioavailable iron from meat into her diet, and maybe helped avert her heart failure.

  93. Ossqss says:

    The line has been crossed tonight. OSHA vaxx mandates for small business?

    The SHTF time has arrived folks.

  94. cdquarles says:

    Without knowing more, Mr. Paul, it is hard to say. Could anemia have contributed to heart failure? Certainly. Did it? I cannot tell from the information given, and you might not have been given enough to say more.

  95. E.M.Smith says:


    Are you saying OSHA will give you a fail if your employees (and owner?) are not vexxed enough?

    NYT says it’s a 100 person cut-off:


    As the NYT has a policy of something like “3 a month free then zero” I’m quoting the whole thing here so folks don’t need to “burn one” to read it:

    Biden Asks OSHA to Order Vaccine Mandates at Large Employers

    The agency is expected to issue an emergency temporary standard to carry out the requirement, which will affect more than 80 million workers.

    By Lauren Hirsch
    Sept. 9, 2021
    Updated 7:16 p.m. ET

    New federal safety regulations that call for businesses with more than 100 workers to require vaccinations against the coronavirus will affirm mandates already in place at many companies and give cover to employers that had yet to decide.

    The proposed rules, which President Biden announced on Thursday, will require workers to be inoculated or face weekly testing and will mandate that the businesses offer employees paid time off to get vaccinated. They are the government’s biggest push yet to draw employers into a campaign to vaccinate the country.

    Some 80 million workers will be affected. The requirements will be imposed by the Department of Labor and its Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which is drafting an emergency temporary standard to carry out the mandate, according to the White House.

    “Some of the biggest companies are already requiring this — United Airlines, Disney, Tyson Foods and even Fox News,” Mr. Biden said during a speech Thursday.

    The move, though, is sure to face political pushback and litigation. And it faces considerable challenges, like establishing a way to gather and store the vaccination information, as well as a process for exemptions. The president did not specify penalties for flouting the requirements.

    Lawyers said Thursday that it was not immediately clear whether the rule would apply to all employees or only those who work in company offices or facilities.

    The Biden administration also intends to require vaccination for federal workers and contractors, as well as for 17 million health care workers in hospitals and other institutions that receive Medicare and Medicaid funding.

    Mr. Biden pleaded for more businesses to help the effort to increase vaccinations. “To those of you running large entertainment venues — from sports arenas, to concert venues, to movie theaters — please require folks to get vaccinated or show a negative test as a condition of entry,” he said.

    OSHA oversees workplace safety, which the agency is likely to contend extends to vaccine mandates. The agency has issued other guidelines for pandemic precautions, such as a rule in June requiring health care employers to provide protective equipment, provide adequate ventilation and ensure social distancing, among other measures.

    “I think that the Department of Labor probably is in good stead to be able to justify its mandate for health and safety reasons for the workers,” said Steve Bell, a partner at the law firm Dorsey & Whitney who specializes in labor and employment.

    “They’ve got a broad pretty solid basis for saying: ‘We’re here to protect the workers, and this is part of our purview, and we think that this is something that will protect employees,’” he said.

    OSHA has the authority to quickly issue a rule, known as an emergency temporary standard, if it can show that workers are exposed to a grave danger and that the rule is necessary to address that danger. The rule must also be feasible for employers to enforce.

    Such a standard would pre-empt existing rules by state governments, except in states that have their own OSHA-approved workplace agencies — about half the states in the country. States with their own programs have 30 days to adopt a standard that is at least as effective, and that must cover state and local government employees, such as teachers. Federal OSHA rules do not cover state and local government employees.

    The regulation is expected to be challenged in court by employers and perhaps even some states. But the legal basis for a state challenge is likely to be weakest in states that are directly within OSHA’s jurisdiction. Among them are some of the states that have been hardest hit by Covid-19 recently and where politicians have been resistant to mandates — such as Texas and Florida.

    The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the business lobby, said in a statement that it “will work to ensure that employers have the resources, guidance and flexibility necessary to ensure the safety of their employees and customers and comply with public health requirements.” Another major business advocacy group, the Business Roundtable, said it “welcomes” the Biden administration actions, including the requirement that companies offer paid time off for workers to get vaccinated.

    The Culinary Workers Union, which represents 57,000 workers in Nevada, said “stricter” vaccine mandates were “the only way we see a full recovery possible.”

    But some unions have been wary of mandates, with members worrying about potential health side effects or bristling at the idea of an employer’s interfering in what they regard as a personal health decision.

    Understand Vaccine and Mask Mandates in the U.S.
    Vaccine rules. On Aug. 23, the Food and Drug Administration granted full approval to Pfizer-BioNTech’s coronavirus vaccine for people 16 and up, paving the way for an increase in mandates in both the public and private sectors. Private companies have been increasingly mandating vaccines for employees. Such mandates are legally allowed and have been upheld in court challenges.
    Mask rules. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in July recommended that all Americans, regardless of vaccination status, wear masks in indoor public places within areas experiencing outbreaks, a reversal of the guidance it offered in May. See where the C.D.C. guidance would apply, and where states have instituted their own mask policies. The battle over masks has become contentious in some states, with some local leaders defying state bans.
    College and universities. More than 400 colleges and universities are requiring students to be vaccinated against Covid-19. Almost all are in states that voted for President Biden.
    Schools. Both California and New York City have introduced vaccine mandates for education staff. A survey released in August found that many American parents of school-age children are opposed to mandated vaccines for students, but were more supportive of mask mandates for students, teachers and staff members who do not have their shots.
    Hospitals and medical centers. Many hospitals and major health systems are requiring employees to get a Covid-19 vaccine, citing rising caseloads fueled by the Delta variant and stubbornly low vaccination rates in their communities, even within their work force.
    New York City. Proof of vaccination is required of workers and customers for indoor dining, gyms, performances and other indoor situations, although enforcement does not begin until Sept. 13. Teachers and other education workers in the city’s vast school system will need to have at least one vaccine dose by Sept. 27, without the option of weekly testing. City hospital workers must also get a vaccine or be subjected to weekly testing. Similar rules are in place for New York State employees.
    At the federal level. The Pentagon announced that it would seek to make coronavirus vaccinations mandatory for the country’s 1.3 million active-duty troops “no later” than the middle of September. President Biden announced that all civilian federal employees would have to be vaccinated against the coronavirus or submit to regular testing, social distancing, mask requirements and restrictions on most travel.

    On Aug. 23, the Food and Drug Administration paved the way for broader mandates when it gave full approval to the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

    Employers as various as CVS Health, Goldman Sachs and Chevron have put in place some form of requirement. Companies have been eager to get their workers back into the office and return to a degree of normalcy. And others, like AstraZeneca and JPMorgan Chase, are already requiring vaccination or else weekly testing.

    Still, many mandates are not comprehensive. Companies like Walmart and Citigroup have requirements for their corporate employees but not for frontline workers in stores or at branches. Many companies are dealing with labor shortages and varying levels of vaccine hesitancy among workers.

    “It levels the playing field,” said Ian Schaefer, a partner at the law firm Loeb & Loeb who specializes in labor issues and has been advising companies on their Covid policies. “Particularly in service industries or industries where they may have been represented by minority populations or lower-wage earners who are disproportionately likely not to be vaccinated — those employers were reluctant to push out a vaccine mandate because they thought they’d lose talent.”

    “If they rolled out that mandate and people in their work stream weren’t getting vaccinated and walking across the street elsewhere, they’d be in a bind,” he said.

    Mr. Biden had already raised the pressure on private employers to help with vaccination efforts. In August, the White House met with executives of companies that had mandated vaccination, including Scott Kirby of United Airlines, to discuss how they could encourage fellow business leaders to do the same.

    Joseph Allen, an associate professor at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health who advises companies on Covid strategies, said the wide-ranging rule announced on Thursday was “a clear signal” from the federal government that it stood behind mandates.

    “I suspect the dominoes will keep dropping,” he said. “It’s also necessary and needed. The voluntary approach has hit its limit.”

    Looks like a SHTF moment for a lot of people, to me.

  96. E.M.Smith says:

    Interesting twist here:

    IF Vexxine is mandated by an employer, then any “Adverse Event” becomes a reportable work related injury. This means Worker Comp Claims, increased insurance costs, some companies put out of business (can your small shop stand a $1 to $10 Million wrongful death claim and will the insurance company drop you or raise rates catastrophically?…)

    But at least we might start getting some decent data…

    Also has a “foo free” policy so quoting a lot more than I wanted to:

    COVID-19 and Construction

    OSHA Imposes New Guidance For Employer-Required COVID-19 Vaccines

    Contractors criticize mandate to classify adverse reactions as recordable safety incidents

    May 3, 2021
    Jeff Yoders
    KEYWORDS construction liablity / construction risk / Covid-19 and construction / job site safety / Johnson & Johnson / Moderna / OSHA vaccine rule / Pfizer / vaccine hesitance
    New guidance from the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration is causing contractors to change their COVID-19 vaccine requirements, and many of them criticize the guidance as diametrically opposed to the Biden administration’s stated desire to increase vaccinations.
    On April 20, OSHA released the new guidance in the frequently asked questions section of its website for COVID-19 safety compliance.

    The question asks whether an employer should record adverse reactions to COVID-19 vaccination if the employer requires the vaccine. OSHA states that if a vaccine is required, then any adverse reaction is considered work-related and therefore it must be recorded. Under OSHA rules, most employers with more than 10 employees are required to keep a record of serious work-related injuries and illnesses. Recorded injuries and illnesses become part of a contractors safety record.

    This is the actual text of the new question and answer on the OSHA website:

    “If I require my employees to take the COVID-19 vaccine as a condition of their employment, are adverse reactions to the vaccine recordable?

    “If you require your employees to be vaccinated as a condition of employment (i.e., for work-related reasons), then any adverse reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine is work-related. The adverse reaction is recordable if it is a new case under 29 CFR 1904.6 and meets one or more of the general recording criteria in 29 CFR 1904.7.”

    In response, several large contractors said they have changed or will change their vaccination policy to only recommend—not require—a vaccine.

    “We, sadly, had to back off our (employee vaccination) mandate because OSHA did something I don’t understand at all,” said Bob Clark, founder and executive chairman of Clayco in a recent ENR Critical Path podcast. “I side with OSHA frequently, we’re in its VIP program, but on this they’re just wrong. It’s a terrible decision they’ve made and I think it’ll be overturned.”

    Clark said Clayco, which participated in crafting the initial Centers for Disease Control guidance on construction site safety during the pandemic, would be communicating with OSHA through members of congress to seek changes to the guidance. A spokeswoman for OSHA did not immediately return messages asking for clarification of the new guidance. Construction industry groups universally panned the guidance and said it would hurt their efforts to encourage employees to get vaccinated.

    “What they put forward could potentially discourage employers from supporting their workers getting the vaccine,” said Kevin Cannon, senior director of safety and health services at the Associated General Contractors of America. “AGC is not in support of any mandate, however we participated, April 19th through 23rd, in vaccine awareness week. We had a lot of members who were in chapters that supported the event. We even had some who hosted vaccine clinics on an active job site or in their offices.”

    Cannon said some member contractors may have changed their approach to those events had they known, at the time, they could potentially “be on the hook for recording these potential adverse reactions.”

    AGC is also concerned the rule puts contractors working on projects such as hospital expansions, where vaccination could potentially be an owner condition of being present on the site, in a difficult position.

    Cannon said AGC has reached out to OSHA as part of the Construction Industry Safety Coalition, a group of 30 industry groups from all major types of construction, to give OSHA more context as to the burden the guidance places on contractors. AGC plans to submit a letter to the agency with chapter input to the agency.

    ‘Caused Significant Confusion’
    Donna Reichle, senior director of public affairs at the Associated Builders and Contractors said, “We agree OSHA has caused significant confusion with this guidance. Industry groups will be seeking clarification from the agency.”

    OSHA has been working for weeks on an all-industries COVID-19 emergency safety standard, which is now being reviewed by the Biden administration’s Office of Management and Budget. Release of the final rule is believed to be coming soon. It is possible the new safety standard could preempt or replace the April 20 guidance to employers. It’s unclear, at this point, if separate rules will be made for industries such as construction, where liability and risk are defined differently than in industries where work takes place in a company facility.

    The number of overall COVID-19 hospitalizations and fatalities also greatly affects the recommendations CDC, OSHA and the various states have released. Cannon said the current guidance, if left unchanged, has the potential to undo months of industry work to encourage vaccination of construction workers.

    “It’s almost like they haven’t talked to the rest of the Biden administration about the goal of getting as many people vaccinated as possible,” said Brian Turmail, AGC vice president of public affairs.

    Required covid shot
    Denise KempMay 5, 2021
    This is great, in my opinion. No employer should be able to require any medical procedure in order to keep your job. This shot is an experimental one, doesn’t even meet the requirements to be called a vaccine. It’s for a virus with a 99.76% survival rate – WITHOUT TREATMENT! And there is proven treatment for it! And there have already been a lot of adverse reactions to this shot, so if the employer makes you take it to keep your job, then he is liable for whatever happens! I don’t care if the president wants everyone vaccinated or not. It’s my choice whether or not to put this in my body, not his and certainly not my employer! ——————————————– Editor replies: Thanks for your comment. The survival rate actually varies according to age, gender and existing medical conditions, and as we know it is significantly higher for older men. See this article, “The coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male — new data reveal the risks” from the journal Nature in Aug., 2020.–Richard Korman, deputy editor

    This is the point where we find out if Average Americans will HOLD!

  97. Ossqss says:

    I always thought that song was radically hyped up, but it sure views differently to me now days.

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