Interesting Demographic Map USA

Started on the Mexican Border, wondering where the 1.7 Million Mexican illegals arrested in one year on the border might have been headed, ended up wondering if just saying “Ya’ll Come” would really do much to the American Demographics, that had me looking square at this map:

2000 Census Demographic Map

2000 Census Demographic Map

Original Larger Image

In some ways this is deceptive as it is showing the dominate ethnic group in a region, not the ‘mix’. In other ways, it will show what determines some aspects of shared culture more. It also reflects some aspects of history (so, for example, the Italian dominance around New York / New Jersey that reflects the 1800s influx of Italians, and the French Quarter in Louisiana).

So some interesting bits:

The Hispanic America is largely slammed up against the Mexican border. Not all that surprising. This is one of those places where the map is misleading, as there have been large surges in Mexican population in other parts of the country, but they are still a small enough minority so as not to color the map. Still, you can easily see why “Tex-Mex” cooking is as it is, and why the Central Valley of California is well populated with Mexican restaurants and easy access to drugs. (Hey, not an insult, ok? Just a reality. I grew up there and you could score a baggy of M.J. in about 10 minutes if you were slow. Usually took longer to figure out what kind and how much to pay for it… Mexican Gold vs Maui Waui vs Humbolt vs…) So we can easily see that the Mexican America is largely 4 States, and those are the border States.

For Texas, the State divides East vs West. Notice that blob of blue German in the middle? Hill Country. Large German influx there long ago. The East is very mixed, and in fact we see a lot of “America” ethnic choice. Those are typically folks “mixed enough” to be unwilling or unable to keep the bookkeeping going. So Hispanic-Anglos, Black-White mixed, Indian-whatever, etc. That is also the more urban area and has had more influx from nearby.

California has a German north & mountains, but a Mexican center and south. Plus smatterings of other bits. Why does California keep electing ultra-liberal hand-out-the-goodies politicians? Look at any Banana Republic. That’s what we are. Those mountain counties have very little population. They just don’t matter.

Arizona and New Mexico both have very large American Indian concentrations. (Yes, a lot of white retirees have run off their to grow old and soak in the sun, but the core of the States are Hispanic / Indian). Again there is a smattering of German areas.

Now just look north of those areas. Wow. What a huge area of largely German derived counties. An interesting little island of Irish in Oregon. Some odd islands of Hispanic too. A scattering of American Indian counties. Then that chunk of Utah / South Idaho and nearby mountains as “English”. But the general area coverage is German. I note in passing that the Norwegians and Finnish have claimed the Frozen North border areas ;-)

Then there is New England. English, Irish, French mix. Italians down toward the warmer more urban areas south of New York.

A bit of a surprise to me is the South. Didn’t realize so many counties were African ancestry. Add in the “American” around it that will likely include a fair number of ‘mixed’ and it’s an interesting counterpoint to the stereotype of The South as being a bunch of White Red Necks. (Yes, they exist. I’ve met them. Just a bit of a surprise that they are not the major group).

Then there is Florida. Quite a mix. That wedge of Puerto Rican near Orlando is why I had some great Puerto Rican meals there ;-) I presume the ‘other’ for Miami is Cuban… that’s what the caption says.

There is a hard to read legend on the right that lists some major exceptions. Like the large Japanese population in Hawaii, the Chinese in San Francisco, even some Polish and Portuguese counties. Oh, and it lists Miami as Cuban.

All in all it makes an interesting view of America. The details (including bits too small to make the map) are here:

Despite the idea that we are “English derived” as a nation, the Germans at 15.2% swamp the English at 8.7%. Even Irish at 10.8% are ahead. Then there are Blacks at 8.8%. So we are more African than English. Barely. Everything else is smaller. Mexican is at 6.5% (up from 4.7% in 1990). But as those are 2000 numbers, the trends have likely continued on from there.

What Started This?

I was wondering: What if we just form the United States of Mexico and America? Well, Mexico has about 115 Million population. The USA has 315 Million. (Of which 18 Million are Mexican extraction). So combined? 133 / 430 Hispanic. 31%

Even if you assume the present Hispanic Americans are more American than Mexican, you get 115 / 430 or 27%

The 27% is marginally tolerable. The 31% would only work if most Mexicans stayed in Mexico. Still, not too bad. It would swamp all other ethnicities, but still not be a majority.

Canada has 33 Million mostly non-Hispanic. Maybe tossing them into the mix would help? 115 / 463 or 25%… not much…

But, given that a lot of folks would mostly just stay where they are, would it really change things all that much? I’m seeing ever less reason to think it will. The German / English conservative percentage is shrinking. It is only a (short) matter of time until the country is just a Banana Republic anyway. Besides, the Mexican Peso and Canadian Dollar are both doing better than our currency as we proceed to financial oblivion. Maybe we need to get the Mexicans contributing taxes to our Social Security system before they figure out the Dream Of The North is on the road to Nightmare…

In Conclusion

What that map doesn’t show is just that The USA is an incredibly “mixed” place. Nobody more than 15% (and a fair number of them will be ‘mixed’ – like me. I’m “German”. And English. And Irish. And… Oh heck, just tick ‘American’…)

So we’re a strange mixed up mush of people. Some neighborhoods put you instantly in a foreign land (like Solvang in California that is a Danish town and until lately mostly spoke Danish; or Chinatown where Chinese still dominates) while other places have an echo of ancestry (the Italian food in Chicago or New York is hard to beat… just don’t ask who makes the best Pizza ;-) while being mostly Standard American culture. Then there are places like Los Angeles. Lord knows what it might be …

So it is an interesting map, and says some interesting things, but misses the point that nobody really dominates outside local areas.


About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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40 Responses to Interesting Demographic Map USA

  1. sandy mcclintock says:

    … and if you are interested what is happening at the genetic level you can contact

  2. M Simon says:

    Best pizza? Caniglias in Omaha. Sadly no longer in business. They burned the pizza. Blackened the cheese. Well maybe it was an acquired taste.

  3. Don Matias says:

    The map shows, inter alia, the group “African American” – a term frequently to be found in many publications. Following the established philosophical distinction between ‘substance’ and ‘accident’* (philosophical meaning, not “mishap”) an individual’s nationality/citizenship is an ‘accident’ whereas his/her ethnic extraction is a ‘substance’: ‘Accidental’ nationality can be changed; ‘substantial’ ethnic extraction can not be changed.

    As ‘American’ (“melting pot”) is clearly not an ethnicity but a nationality there can be Congolese Africans, Malian Africans, Nigerian Africans, Sambian Africans &c. and, of course, American Africans. But there can not be “African Americans”.

    In South America there are Bolivian Quechuas and Peruvian Quechuas and there are Bolivian Aymaras and Peruvian Aymaras. There aren’t any “Aymarian Peruvians”.

    (There are yellow automobiles but there aren’t any “automobilistic yellowites”.)

    Whilst President Obama’s African ethnicity, i. e. ‘substance’, was never questioned his ‘accidental’ quality as a citizen of the U.S.A. was doubted by several people. As the President’s nationality has been established beyond reasonable doubt he is an American citizen, and he is irrefutably African.

    Therfore the President of the United States of America and all U.S. citizens who belong to his ethnic group are American Africans. They are not “African Americans” – an egregious misnomer.


  4. Sera says:

    @ Don Matias:

    If you are born in the USA, you are an American (nationality). You can only be an African American (nationality) if you were born in Africa and have dual citizenship with the USA. If you were born in the USA, and then received African citizenship, keeping both (duel), then you are an American African. I do completely agree with you that most people confuse nationality and ethnicity, while most do not even realize that their race is ‘human’. I just love it when the charlatans talk about ‘race relations’ or ‘racial divisiveness’- what other race are they talking about?

  5. DirkH says:

    “Now just look north of those areas. Wow. What a huge area of largely German derived counties.”

    There was quite a bit of population explosion in the 19th and early 20th century in Germany, cities expanded, lots of emigrants, arable land in Germany got scarce, leading to the Lebensraum idea of the Nazis – the idea of colonizing the vast slawic countries (and enslaving them). Hitler had quite the youth bulge to use in the war. accompanied by the youth unemployment youth bulges usually bring with them – like currently in Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc.

    So you got a lot of German immigrants during that time.

    Also, while you might consider your Germans conservative, that has largely to do with the fact that they’re the rural population in your case. Here in Germany urbanites of Germanic ethnicity tend to be what you would call liberal statists and anti-capitalists. Just like your urbanites. (Urbanites are in the majority so helpless that they feel they need every one of their needs taken care of by a total state; and often work for one of the state’s tentacles.)

  6. philjourdan says:

    The map is interesting and nice. But as you indicated, not very reliable in the long run. My ancestry is similar to yours (much more French), but I am married to a 100% Mexican (Second generation as her mother moved from Guadalajara). SO our kids are even more blended with the map – so what color would they be put into?

    As this is a “Census” thing, there is no personal preference that can be read into it. But of those “German/English/Irish/etc.” colors, I wonder what the actual PEOPLE would say they were.

  7. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M. Surprising! Deutschland über alles!

  8. John Robertson says:

    We all bleed red and unless there is political advantage, race is a non issue.
    I’m all for one america, but only if the individual states hold power, a Federal American Empire would be too much. Like the EU.
    We are in or entering peak government, hitting the top of the cycle, if the wheel is round we will have a smooth reduction in idiotic authoritarian interference .
    History indicates a bump is more likely.
    At the skilled trades level, race is much less important than personality and attitude, certainly tribalism is not unique to any race. Looking after your own is a survival trait and hard to rise above.
    Terrible thought, currently we are mostly equal under taxation, unless you are a status indian, based on Team Obama behaviour, tax exemption based on race?
    Or is that the welfare trap?

  9. Hannu says:

    I don’t understand that. Finns leave this frozen wasteland we call Finland, travel 6000 miles and settle in… another frozen wasteland called Michigan. What wrong with Colorado or California? Or Egypt?

  10. Larry Geiger says:

    It’s way to big to manage right now. We certainly don’t need more land area and people. Actually, it appears that what we really need is less and smaller. Break the whole think up into three or four chunks. Just too big to manage. It’s certainly true that the current guy can’t manage it.

  11. John F. Hultquist says:

    Washington State shows with 4 counties in the “Mexican” category and in these same counties there are numbers of non-Mexican folks from other countries south of the US border. These four counties all have agricultural economies of a type being labor intensive. Grown in these areas are tree fruits (apples, cherries, and many others), wine grapes (many hand picked), and many more mechanized crops, especially hay and potatoes. Dairies are found in the SE of Yakima County (largest one shown). Various State and Federal regulations have made hiring seasonal labor difficult and smaller independent growers adapt by changing to mechanized crops. Hay, for instance, is harvested field-to-storage without anyone having to get out of an air-conditioned machine. Corn and potatoes are also handled with machines. Asparagus is next with a 40 year development effort now showing economical results. Historically, high school students would harvest such crops in the mornings but that did not scale up. Then came laborers moving north with the ripening of the various crops. Health and related issues have resulted in more settled workers with houses (rather than shanties and motel rooms), schools, and health clinics. Thus, instead of Yakima County showing as it does, it would show as Native American (The Yakama Res) [spelling difference is correct] and the other three counties would still show as blue. The Colville Tribe would still get to color Ferry County gold.

    Regarding the German emigrants (Dirk’s comment), my mother’s families were in the hills of western Pennsylvania before Hitler’s youth bulge so I suspect there was a previous push-out from there. My family does not know when, or why, or where from the ancestors came. On my father’s side, his mother came from Ireland; his father was born in NY State of immigrant parents from Sweden. Color my little parcel . . . . . . ?

  12. E.M.Smith says:

    @Folks Pondering German Arrival:

    A lot of folks head over here due to the Little Ice Age… Oddly, the same Potato Blight that sent my Irish ancestors this way likely sent some of the Germans, too:

    Before the major waves of German immigration began, already 8.6% of the population was German. Many had immigrated to Pennsylvania seeking religious freedom or had come under the redemptioner system. German peasants would receive free passage to America but would be required to work for a businessman for 4-7 years to repay the cost of the voyage.
    1850’s – Nearly 1 million Germans immigrated to the United States.
    1870’s – 723,000 Germans immigrated to the United States.
    1880’s – 1,445,000 Germans immigrated to the United States.

    My German ancestors were part of the “religious freedom” group. Amish. (Though they wandered through Switzerland on the way from ‘lowland’ to Pennsylvania). So I presume Luther can be given some of the credit. The article goes on to list both ‘push’ and ‘pull’ factors. I’m just going to mush them together here:

    After the Napoleonic Wars ended in 1815 the German economy was suffering. Foreign imports (especially cloth from England) flooded the German markets and German industry could not compete. In addition inheritance tradition of dividing farms among families was making farms so small that they were unsuccessful.
    The population had grown very large and was dependent on the potato to sustain it. In 1840 rural Germany was struck by the potato blight which led to famine.

    German princes sponsored societies (in the 1830’s and 40’s) that provided one way tickets to the poor with the idea that in the long run it was cheaper than long-term subsidies.
    A bestselling book in 1829 about Missouri by Gottfried Duden inspired a tidal wave of emigration.
    Social and economic discrimination in Germany led to the emigration of thousands of German Jews during all the immigration waves and Catholics after the May Laws of the 1870’s.
    During several of the immigration waves, young men emigrated to escape being conscripted in the German (Prussian) military service.

    Aid societies promoted immigration by supporting bettering the conditions of immigrants
    The north-central states (Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michegan) promoted their states for settlement among Germans with funding and support from their state legislatures.
    The transcontinental railroads sent agents to ports of departure and arrival to recruit immigrants to take up their land grants or ship their goods through their freight lines.
    Chain migration occurred during the later phases of German immigration as newcomers joined family and friends who had made the journey before them,

    So looks like all the usual stuff. Trying to get away from oppressive Princes and governments, being forced to do battle for causes you do not support, wanting a chance to just be left alone and run a farm or make goods in peace. To practice what religion you like without bother.

    Kind of amazing, really. In all that time we still have the same Evil Government Bastards busy trying to pot-stir the ordinary person and chain them into some kind of servitude. You would think that by now we would have worked out a way to tell them to “Leave us the hell alone”. But it would seem that is too much to ask.

    Looks like we had such a country for about 100 years. Gone now. Died about 1919 near as I can tell. (Final coffin nail started in 1932 or so…)

    So wonder what it would take to make a new “Leave Us The Hell Alone” country? Since all the land is already claimed, it looks like either finding an existing one that would like the new population (and their goods and skills), or doing a ‘take over’ of one. Maybe some small mostly uninteresting island that could be subject to a ‘do over’ vote with enough new money and people.

    It does look like there is a fundamental strain between the “leave us the hell alone” folks and the “meddling pot stirring jailers”. Somehow we need a method to expel the latter types, since the seem unwilling to let us leave… ( Has burning at the stake gone out of style? ;-) Maybe the French had it right and we need an “Off With Their Heads” party for the “Aristocracy” every so often… Oh Well, don’t think I’m going to solve that question today…

    @Larry Geiger:

    While I’d rather see the place divided up into a batch of independent States, then you just have the same immigration problem, but multiplied by however many States you have in the whole continent.

    It may not be a solvable problem…


    My Niece married a Hispanic Guy. I didn’t realize that for the first dozen years I knew him… (We just called him ‘Rico’ and he had a cowboy hat and big truck ;-) Typical farm country kid.) Probably part of why I every so often ponder just doing a ‘Mexico Merge’. I grew up from about 4 years old spending 1/2 my time in a Mexican kid’s home (and he in mine). For one sister, her Grandkids are 1/2 Hispanics. For another, it’s an odd blend with a bit of American Indian and some Hispanic (we think, maybe…) For me, the kids are both interested in folks of ‘mixed’ backgrounds (though nobody has done any settling down yet) and at least one has some African in the mix. (Though she has green eyes… very pretty mix…)

    Basically, having lived in a strongly Hispanic influenced Central Valley California, it’s was rather nice! Food is good. People are good. (Not the gang bangers who break the law and smuggle over the boarder; but the core people of Mexico.) Culture is fun and likes a party. (Good at Rodeo and likes beer too!) What would life be without burritos, margaritas, tostadas and cerveza?

    At the end of the day, the only thing I find annoying is some of the music. (Then again, there’s a lot of ‘white guy’ music I find annoying too ;-)

    Most folks seem to just call themselves American.

    I was raised knowing full well Mum was British. I had a bit of a “Gee, I’m British” fetish at times and spent time learning about British ways. Then I visited the UK and discovered that, no, I was about 1% British as a layer of varnish. The core was just American.

    Turns out my “Mexican Friend” had a similar experience. His family mostly spoke Spanish. Dad was a sort-of illegal (he had come before folks paid much attention to ‘paperwork’, so would just show his RailRoad retirement card and be left alone – but supposedly had just ridden a horse across the border back around 1910… he was about 70? in 1960 or so IIRC but had picked up a very young wife … So the friend visits Mexico and finds out he’s more American than Mexican.

    Chinese girl from my home town discovered something similar on a visit to ChinaTown. Not even actual China. Loved the ‘fitting in’, but realized she was a kid from an American Farm Town, and not quite like them.

    I suspect it is the same for all of us. We have our fantasy of “I am of FOO background”, and one day visit, and find ourselves “Strangers in a strange land”, and recognize our fundamental American nature.

    Same thing for Black Americans. Not a lot of cultural identity with Africa.

    @Sandy Mcclintock:

    I am, so I’ll look at it. Genes drift rather fast, so I’d expect the USA to be rapidly approximating an average in a few generations. The next younger generation from mine is already rapidly blending Hispanic, White, Asian, and Black. Religious divisions largely evaporated in mine.

    @Don Matias:

    I think it is a language structure issue. English puts the ‘modifier’ in front.

    Big car. Red house. Chinese food. Hot tea. African music.

    So an “American” is the basic property. Then a modifier (that can be any modifier. Race, Nationality, size, whatever) is prepended. White American. German American. Jewish American. Big Fat Assed Honky American. Ugly American. Black American. African American. Chinese American. (there are many kinds of Chinese…). New American.

    They all say that the basic object is an American, and it is modified a bit by another attribute.

    For that reason, I am comfortable with using both German American and African American (and Jewish American that could also be either of the former two).

  13. Bill Irvine says:

    So where were the Scots? and Welsh?

  14. George says:

    US is german. Iran is german. German vs. German. Brother vs. Brother. Suicide. Retarded.

  15. DirkH says:

    George says:
    1 February 2013 at 6:18 pm
    “Iran is german.”

    Well, I’m German, and I would beg to differ. Iran is not German. We didn’t even try to conquer it.

  16. George says:

    The name “Iran”, which in Persian means “Land of the Aryans”.

  17. DirkH says:

    George says:
    1 February 2013 at 6:38 pm
    “The name “Iran”, which in Persian means “Land of the Aryans”.”

    You didn’t say “Iran is Indo-European and Germany is Indo-European”. You said Iran is German. Which it is not. Words have meanings. We don’t hang homosexuals, for instance.

  18. George says:

    And if that doesn’t do it for you… we are all African at heart (maybe).

  19. George says:

    Words are defined by other words. What meaning do they have?

  20. George says:

    [SNIP! Reply: Duplicate comment on multiple threads. Looks like a SPAM behaviour. Wondering if this account has been hijacked. -E.M.Smith]

  21. George says:

    Another thing. Why do black Americans call themselves african American? They aren’t from africa. They are just American. Someone should let them know they are being [snip]

    [Reply: For the same reason German Americans are called German Americans. That’s where they came from. I’ve snipped the insult and put you on moderation. -E.M.Smith]

  22. George says:

    [snip]American is more accurate

    [Reply: Insulting individual ethnic groups is not allowed. Don’t know why you ‘went there’, but you are now on moderation. -E.M.Smith ]

  23. philjourdan says:

    We are all African by origin (probably). At least if we are to believe the science of Mitochondrial DNA.

  24. philjourdan says:

    Take a forest. A pine tree grows and shades another pine tree. The second pine tree dies due to lack of sunlight. Is the first pine tree evil?

  25. DirkH says:

    George says:
    1 February 2013 at 6:42 pm
    “Words are defined by other words. What meaning do they have?”

    You are a relativist (and an extreme one at that). I am not. Arguing with you makes no sense. Bye.

  26. Tim Clark says:

    Maybe some small mostly uninteresting island that could be subject to a ‘do over’ vote with enough new money and people.

    Mauritania … could possibly be purchased on the cheap from the Brits.

  27. crosspatch says:

    It is important that “African Americans” have a different name and be segregated into a different subculture for purposes of pandering by politicians. Generally the idea is to attempt to differentiate various groups and make promises to them, generally at everyone else’s expense, in order to collect their votes. It also makes it easier to implement policies that sound like they are designed to help them but in reality keep them segregated economically and educationally. For example: If you notice that people of some ethnic demographic are doing poorly in school, you argue for additional cash to be pumped into the schools in those neighborhoods. That doesn’t actually improve the education, but it does garner votes because it makes it appear like you are “doing something” for them. It also bolsters the votes from the people whose pockets where the money actually lands. That would be the teachers’ unions. 25% of all union members of the US are members of two unions — the National Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers. So this kills two birds with one stone. It shovels tax money to a group who is going to kick back a considerable amount in political donations, will indoctrinate the kids in the advantages of your political party (my children’s teachers did this in the last election. Democrats want to help people, Republicans only want to help the rich. Two of my son’s teachers told him that.) and it actually does nothing to really advance the state of the education of the people involved so they can’t “escape” the cycle of dependence on your political programs.

    The Democrats have a very interesting policy of economic and educational apartheid that they get people to buy into by making them believe it is “helping” them. They get validation of that from the teachers who reinforce that message but it is in their pockets where the money lands. it’s a great racket.

    But what is happening now is that the Democrats are on a long-range program to replace the blacks with hispanics. They are next to be trapped into poor neighborhoods with bad schools in exchange for their votes while the Democrats “help” them to death.

  28. crosspatch says:

    This is why I support bills such as this one introduced in Tennessee. It would force politicians to implement programs that help EVERYONE, not just targeted voter demographics.

  29. George says:

    philjourdan says:
    1 February 2013 at 7:01 pm
    “Take a forest. A pine tree grows and shades another pine tree. The second pine tree dies due to lack of sunlight. Is the first pine tree evil?”

    Good one! I don’t know.

  30. George says:

    DirkH says:
    1 February 2013 at 7:21 pm
    George says:
    1 February 2013 at 6:42 pm
    “Words are defined by other words. What meaning do they have?”

    “You are a relativist (and an extreme one at that). I am not. Arguing with you makes no sense. Bye.”

    I am sorry DirkH. Let’s not argue since we are both German. Peace brother.

  31. E.M.Smith says:

    @Bill Irvine:

    All over. Just none of them are ‘enough’ in any one county to dominate it on the map. See the actual demographics report for details.

    @Dirk H:

    I think “George” is “having issues”. I’ve put them on ‘moderation watch’. Please do not take what looks like Troll Bait.

    Note that “George” has an I.P. owned by Comcast in the Mid-West USA. Not a German source address.


    I think we’re seeing an attempt at a ‘Thread Hijack’ and an attempt at polluting a thread with racial “stuff”, possibly as a reputational attack on the site. ( i.e. act racist, then the counter parties can say “Look, that site is racist!!!!” )

    Please do not feed the Troll Behaviours.

    ALL races are welcome here and I will not tolerate any attack on any race. (Frankly, since most of them are in some way or another part of my extended family or immediate friends, that’s not a hard position to take. A “best buddy” from college is part African American and has the keys to my house, as one example. I’ve got American Indian in my nephew, Hispanic grand-nieces and Jewish cousins. The list goes on. Oddly, a ‘typical American family’ in many ways ;-)

    I could also be wrong. “George” might just have started new meds or be having a bad day. But not going to risk it. He’s violated the ‘be nice’ rule, and is also being way ‘off topic’ and too much ‘pot stirring’; so ‘enforcement behaviours’ implemented.


    No, not evil. Evil requires intent. Trees do not have intent.

  32. George says:

    Good intentions sometimes end badly. I think “I don’t know” is the most appropriate response. What if the tree had some saplings he needed to feed and the only way he could do that is by growing taller and purposefully killing his neighbor tree? The tree may have intent – we cannot say for sure.

    2. Not having bad day, not hijacked, no meds, not too many issues:).. sorry i allowed my true thoughts to come out. i didn’t insult anyone. my intent was to clarify that my point was there is no difference between races so the term african american is the actual divider (not the messenger).

    3. Changing language changes the world.

  33. John Robertson says:

    Well if George is a BOT from Comcast, you must be doing something right in your recent analysis,
    Climate ,constitution, money,demographics and the tragedy of the cities.
    I’m fascinated by the range you cover so quickly, I do not always follow your logic, nor understand the subject, but your search seems to be gathering its threads together to weave,,, what?
    I do delight in your reexamination of the presumed truths, your reply to Mosher (WUWT Feb 1st Annan thread,Radiative physics) was a beauty, I have slowly learned that the common understanding expressed as, “Everybody knows that” often hides mass ignorance.(Wilful ignorance?)
    Of recent years I have been starved of access to quality science and speculation about the same as the magazines I used to buy have declined to absurdities.
    So seeing science move to the web is a little like watching a forest recover after a fire.
    Whats with your donate process? Paypal ended up with a return to sender on my attempt to buy you an eggnog in return for this quality entertainment.

  34. adolfogiurfa says:

    @John Robertson but your search seems to be gathering its threads together to weave,,, what?
    A tapestry:

    My life has been a tapestry of rich and royal hue
    An everlasting vision of the ever changing view
    A wondrous woven magic in bits of blue and gold
    A tapestry to feel and see, impossible to hold

    Once amid the soft silver sadness in the sky
    There came a man of fortune, a drifter passing by
    He wore a torn and tattered cloth around his leather hide
    And a coat of many colors, yellow-green on either side

    He moved with some uncertainty, as if he didn’t know
    Just what he was there for, or where he ought to go
    Once he reached for something golden hanging from a tree
    And his hand came down empty

    Soon within my tapestry along the rutted road
    He sat down on a river rock and turned into a toad
    It seemed that he had fallen into someone’s wicked spell
    And I wept to see him suffer, though I didn’t know him well

    As I watched in sorrow, there suddenly appeared
    A figure gray and ghostly beneath a flowing beard
    In times of deepest darkness, I’ve seen him dressed in black
    Now my tapestry’s unraveling, he’s come to take me back
    He’s come to take me back
    (Carole King)

  35. E.M.Smith says:

    @John Robertson:

    I sent a reply email on that some weeks back. Turns out that PayPal, for some overseas sources, demands that I ‘accept the funds’ inside some time window or it sends them back. I didn’t check that email quick enough to ‘accept them’ in time, so they got returned. For US source funds, it just sticks them in the account. (In the email it sends me it claims this is a setting I have set; but I never did and can’t find how to ‘unset’ it.)

    I’m trying to check email more often, so it ought to work OK ‘next time’ ;-)

    Yes, I move fast. As I’ve been (frequently) accused of being too “prolix” and spending far too much time on every detail, I’ve worked hard at editing to ‘much much less’. That may result in topics that have a harder to follow thread (as such was left out). Don’t know how to fix it. (On side beats me up for too much detail, then the other for not enough and the flow being unclear… Oh Well…) If any given ‘leap’ or ‘connection’ isn’t clear, just say “How does FOO lead to BAR?” and I’ll elaborate.

    So per ‘threads’:

    I think of understanding as being like a ‘mushroom table top’. There is a stem that can support from a firm foundation a certain amount of ‘reach’ to each side. Eventually you need to start from a new foundation and get a new top. If these are close enough together, you can support a very large surface from a matrix of such ‘stems’. (as the mushroom caps merge on high)…

    So I’ll take some point, say “demographics” and find it supports the notion that the world is not too full nor that there is any problem at all with 20 Billion population. That, then, acts to support not just an understanding of how demographic trends are heading, but that there are plenty of physical resources too (that ‘next mushroom over’ of resource economics) and that the folks (Club Of Rome) pushing a Malthusian Population Fear must be doing it for political reasons (supporting that “Political mushroom” next over…)

    So by expanding the bases, sometimes dropping down a new aerial root to form a new base for a thin edge, or sometime by starting from a whole new base and growing a new span of understanding, linking this forest of tables; slowly I build up a well supported understanding of things. Very little that is weak of support and not subject to someone ‘selling me a bill of goods’.

    Take AGW: It came along and “didn’t quite fit”, so I went looking at ‘the science’. In some cases had to plant new bases. In others, expand the edge of a known bit. In the end, I found that the “Climate Mushroom Table” that grew fit nicely with all the prior knowings… but that Global Warming was crap science and politically driven ‘for effect’.

    That’s the strength of this system. It can’t be corrupted and can’t be broken. It just gets stronger and covers more over time. The ‘weakness’ is that thin edges of any given knowing tree can be bent or broken off if support is too far removed. Thus the need to put in new bases of support from time to time. So take “sea level rise”: I had to learn some new things about tides and long term cycles to stabilize the understanding of how sea level changes (and that there is no rise). So I learned more on that topic and that puts in a new support base / root.

    Overall, my goal is just to understand, accurately and correctly, as much as I can before I die.

    Glad you liked my reply to Mosher. It pretty much illustrates how I think. Starts about here:

    and continues for a few comments to / fro.


    Nice ;-)

    I tend to think our spirits are all part of one big tapestry and that we break apart to explore particular bits, then reintegrate to savor the learnings… At least, that’s my fantasy…

    So for ‘a while’ I’ll be me, and then someday I’ll be resorbed…. and hopefully have something interesting to bring back to the origin and share…

  36. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: You are improving the design of the cosmological tapestry.

  37. adolfogiurfa says:

    ….not forgetting that some people are engaged, as cancer cells, in destroying its delicate tissue; and, the same as those malign cells, are driven by Tanatos instead of Eros.

  38. philjourdan says:

    George – Auf Deutsch Gay-org. I know, my first name is George as well. But that is better than Spanish – Whore-Hay.

    Any wonder I go by Phil?

  39. philjourdan says:

    @E.M. Re: ” Evil requires intent.”

    That was what I was driving at.

  40. adolfogiurfa says:

    @E.M.: Evil requires intent….or a lot of stupidity: Evil starts at the conviction that cosmic laws can be by passed….such as the “intelligent” evil done by cancer cells: They die, along with the body, when they succeed. Isn´t it cool?
    Watch now bankers committing suicide and dragging along politicians…it´s so touching!
    Buy more popcorn and enjoy it!

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