Chop, Twist & 4 Wall – per RT and NBC

I “sample broadly” when it comes to news. I find the “compare and contrast” highly informative. For this reason, I sometimes subject myself to MSNBC CNBC CNN et. al. along with Fox, Fox Business, Bloomberg, BBC, DW and RT (German and Russian news in America). Frankly, just about any news on the satellite, I’m gonna watch it sometime. Then very sporadically the local news [as it is largely just the Police Blotter “bleeds it leads” and local Political Promotion (Mayor leading parade -news?…) and such].

FWIW, I miss Al Jazeera, as they had great video out of the Middle East. Even if the commentary was often clearly biased, it was easy to catch and filter the bias and the camera gave very good insight into the ‘facts on the ground’. Oh Well.

Oh, and it looks like RT has a youtube channel, for folks not getting the satellite feed:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday

Now, the current hot button among the Talking Heads Of The Left is that, Oh Horrors!!!, Donald Trump was interviewed by Larry King!!!! Oh, sorry, interviewed on “Russia Today Sponsored by RUSSIA!!! and Puppet of Putin and Horrible People!!!!” (as a paraphrase…)

So what does that make me? Stooge of pMSNBC? Dupe of CNBC? Controlled by evil GE Driven Corporate News on NBC local? Perhaps a Neo Nazi in the making since I watch GERMAN news? (Or would that be a Good Globalist Citizen as I watch modern German News?) Or perhaps it makes me Enemy Of The State for watching Communist Russian News on RT? Oh, wait, they aren’t communists anymore… but Nationalists… so that must make me a Russian Stooge? Perhaps watching Bloomberg means I’m a Closet Limousine Liberal (in which case, please send a limo by about 3 PM and have the bar well stocked…) Or maybe that I watch Fox means I’m a rabid frothing Right Wing Nut? (Then again, Fox Business would mean I’m a Rabid Frothing Right Wing Billionaire Wannabe. In which case, stock the Limo with a few hundred $Thousands… German Bearer Bonds preferred, if any are still in circulation…) /sarc;

It’s just so blatant and so galling.

No, I watch them all so I can catch the bias and lies they all have and tell. Not only does each “call out” the other with “gotcha” blurbs from time to time, but simply having the same straight story on each of them marks it “probably true” and when they are cutting-for-effect the other often has the whole statement and the lie is obvious.

Chopping & Twisting Lately

What has gotten crazy obvious lately is that the more “Progressive” the network, they more they are acting as a clear Propaganda Ministry. There are several techniques used, but I’m only going to describe one here (lest things get so long I never finish the article ;-) That technique may have some proper name that I don’t now (not being formally schooled in Propaganda), but I’ve taken to calling it “Chop and Twist, then 4 Wall”. It’s easy to spot.

So first off, you watch what Trump says. He will say something that is a bit vague, but only with some effort could be turned to The Dark Side. Now the Propaganda Ministry “chops out a juicy bit”, then they “twist it”, then it is projected everywhere at the same time (called “4 walling” pointing a projector at all 4 walls so you must see it somewhere).

It is easily spotted by simply watching somewhere that is NOT chopping, so you get the whole statement, then see if it means something else to you. (You must do this with an open mind, not after already buying in to the chopped and twisted version…)

So Trump says something like, in response to a question about Putin being an able leader, “Yes, I think Putin has been able to manage his complex country and lead it for the Russian nation. He’s a tough guy, but you have to respect him”. That is a pretty simple statement of the facts about Russia and Putin.

It’s a big, complicated place with sometimes lethal political rules of engagement. It takes a tough guy to survive in it, and Putin has. He has also acted to keep Russia working for Russians and NOT under the thumb of the west or the globalists. Managing a place the size and diversity of Russia his damned hard, and he’s done it. It is also important to respect your potential adversaries and it is a Very Bad Idea to pick a fight with other world leaders with whom you may need to work. Note that NONE of this says Putin is a good guy. If you asked me if Al Capone was an effective manager, I’d have to say yes, because he ran a difficult and complex operation and did it effectively. That doesn’t mean I like gangsters or think he was a good guy. Those are different questions.

Now, the Chop. The answer gets reported as “Trump praises Putin, calls him ‘able’ and says he ‘respects him'”. (Usually the chop isn’t that extreme, but you get the point. Single words, or small phrases. Occasionally a whole sentence out of context. That, then gets spun up into things like Trump is a Russian Puppet or Trump Loves Dictators or a dozen other sets of spin.

Finally, the same story shows on ALL of the major “Progressive” outlets at the same time (the 4 Wall). MSNBC / CNBC / CNN especially seem to run in close contact. Then there are all the “progressive” blogs and news papers that run with it too (starting with the New York Times as “ministry leader” in the print world.

Then you turn on Fox and hear the whole thing, question and answer, and see that Trump is just choosing to answer the question accurately. Putin IS an effective leader for his country and IS managing it effectively. He is also a Nationalist who thinks his country ought to act in the interest of Russian People (which offends the Globalists to no end). He is also calling B.S. on human induced Global Warming (so not buying in to their other Propaganda Power Play) and has the audacity to think that as leader of one of THE largest nations and powers on Earth, maybe he ought to get a bit of respect. He is also well skilled at Real Politik and Power Politics, so knows how to use an Army, and do Deception almost as well as the British…

Oh, and he undid the (likely illegal) gift of Khrushchev who split off a chunk of Russia and gave it to Ukraine when he, a Ukrainian, was running the USSR. Putin just took back what had been Russia for a few hundred years and was full of ethnic Russians who were being forced to become Ukrainians. Now I may think his methods a bit despicable, but if you ask me “Is Putin an effective leader for Russia?” and “Can Putin manage an army well?”, I’d be forced to say yes. Oh, and if asked “Can Putin lie like a rug, use deception to gain whatever he wants, makes Machiavelli look naive and has likely got a list of State Murders longer than this article?”, I’d also have to say “Yes, I can agree to that, too.”

Recognizing a Reality is NOT endorsement of it, nor the actors who implemented it.

Watch carefully for that one, it is used nearly daily. Questions of the form “What do you think caused…” or “Do you think (bad person) was effective in…” get twisted to “You ENDORSED what was done”, when no such endorsement was made. It’s one of the better Propaganda Flags out there, and it’s easy to spot. Watch MSNBC, then Fox, compare and contrast the same leading story and look at who has the long quote, and who uses a Chopped Soundbite with Spin. This is an “Endorsement Bait And Switch” IMHO.

Larry King

I don’t know how or why Larry King got a gig on RT. But he’s still the same old Larry King. He does decent interviews, but I rarely watch his show. Just don’t like looking at him and the gravely voice, frankly. Yet he draws an audience and gets Name guests. I’m going to make an exception for the Trump Interview if I can find it. (The Satellite feed has the wrong tittles and times compared to what’s showing for RT. Been months now. You would think someone would have noticed and fixed it… but RT News comes on when it ought to be some other show, and then under the RT News heading it’s often some cultural dance / opera stuff… Oh Well.)

Now just how in hell the Loony Side Of Left thinks they can spin Larry King into a Russian Stooge story for Trump is a bit beyond me. Ether CNN or MSNBC had some (supposedly) Republican guy on saying the only way out of this for Trump (note the implication he is ‘in’ something… “Assumption of Guilt By Statement w/o Facts”) is for Trump to, every time he mentions Putin, start the statement with ~”Putin is a very bad person and does bad things” or something like that. FWIW, I call that strategy the Knight Fork. If Trump DOESN’T Do That, he will be accused of being a Russian Stooge, or worse, and not patriotic. If he DOES do that, at best he is picking a fight with a very effective street fighter with nukes and a lethal set of assassins. Someone with whom he might need to make deals. So far, Trump has been bright enough to not take that kind of bait, and call out the Stupid Slander instead of taking the Real Damage To Relationships.

All this because Trump is being interviewed by Larry King on a program for American audiences on a channel owned by Russia.

Somehow I thought the end of the Cold War, the end of the USSR, the sending of huge delegations to Russia to teach them Capitalism, and a generation of peace between us was supposed to make it OK to do business with Russian companies… Didn’t Bill Clinton work with the Russians? Hmmm? Didn’t Madam Hillary approve sale of 20% of US Uranium to a Russian Company? Hmmmm? So what is it, are Russians GOOD or BAD? (yes, a Knight Fork of my own ;-)

Why I often choose to answer such questions with “Mu! The Question Is Ill Formed!” (Something Mr. Trump might find useful…)

One simply answers “Some Russians are good, some bad, like everybody”.

Now in my well founded opinion, having watched thousands of hours of all sorts of news programs, RT is a very credible news outlet for just about anything not directly of importance to the Kremlin. They are especially good at turning up American Folly and shining light on Euro-Globalist machinations. For that, I cherish them. On other things, like, oh, their coverage of the Ukraine, you have to sort out the Official Spin. The good thing is that isn’t all that hard to do and like Al Jazeera, you get great video from places you would otherwise never see. Even on Ukraine, you get a different POV on things that can often be useful; just that you need to double check the fact checking.

So does that put me in the “I Love Putin” camp? Or the “Mole For Russia” camp? Nope. No more than saying that DW gives a great view of the Official German Globalist POV makes me a Globalist. No more than watching Fox Business makes me Pro Open Borders Cheap Labor. It only means I am comfortable using “compare and contrast” to filter out the Propaganda Pieces and appreciate the real news and alternative POV around it. Besides, knowing what Putin is hot about and what they are willing to risk reputation to push is itself enlightening…

Sidebar on Me And Russia:

I had one Russian Language class. I did horribly in it (that alphabet was a challenge and about 1/2 the class, IMHO, spoke Russian at home and were looking for an easy A as exchange students…). I can puzzle out a few words still, and “someday” would like to get good at the language, but it is highly unlikely to happen unless I live to 200… I have no “issues” with Russia or Russians. They are basically culturally “European” people, living in a hard place. They have been traumatized by a thousand years of horrible governments and invaders, so I can appreciate some of their tolerance for a Strong Man who is mostly keeping the worst of it away. Accepting “I hate it but it is good enough”. (Hmmm… rather like I feel about Obama…) I’ve never been there, but would love to go. IMHO, they are more like the sailors in “The Russians Are Coming!” than they are typically presented. Do remember we were allies in W.W.II and they got the worst end of it. That’s my bias.

Somehow I suspect Larry King and Trump have a similar “OK, I guess” attitude toward Russia and the Russian People. Why Hillary and the Loony Side Of Left want to Demonize them and pick a fight with Putin is a good question… I can only figure it is because Putin isn’t on board with the Globalist AGW bundle.

In Conclusion

The thing that galls me most is the way it gets 4 Walled. Just shouting “coordination”.

I like my news sources diverse and independent. When they all pick up the same Leader Board Talking Points with the same Spin and the same chop, well, it just stinks of Ministry Of Propaganda. Then when they all run the same day, or at most one day off, it is confirmation of at least an Echo Chamber, and more likely Dear Leader-ship.

Now I know that in the present age a lot of this comes from rapid communications. Someone at HuffPo or NYT Tweets out a spin chopped into 140 char and all their fellow traveler news creators get a flutter deep in their Progressive Socialist Conscience and decide a Me Too! Piece would be easy to pop on the screen as they Virtue Signal to The Flock what to think. No real Ministry, but still a swarm of followers being lead…

The result, though, isn’t News. It’s still propaganda.

As real news has become ever more absent from The Tube and Print media, I, and it looks like millions of others, have taken up a new habit.

I leave The Tube running in the background while I do other things. WHEN I’ve detected a 4 Wall happening, I’ll channel hop a bit to get a wider view, then go to the internet news sources to get the rest of the story and the real news.

Now this has one good effect, I get a lot better news in depth. It also has the bad effect of encouraging even LESS news on the Tube as I’m not looking to if for news anymore, just the hot topic du jour. We’re in a feedback loop. They turn news into more stories of The Strange And Exciting, and I stop looking to them for news… so they give even less, so I look to them even less, so…

I do long for the days of Walter Cronkite and the old BBC sometimes. I got started in Short Wave Listening with the old BBC. Mum loved to hear it, and they did global straight news back in the day. Somewhere around the time they went from blue to the present hideous sort of orange on their sets, the actual news content was made smaller than the political spin. Now the BBC America news is down to 30 minutes of Puff and Nonsense, and I rarely watch much of it. Even CNN has cleaner news. Sad that. (Though I watch a lot of Star Trek on it ;-) What it has to do with Britain escapes me though …)

I suspect my news habits were set with that old (War Surplus!) shortwave tube radio. I’d listen to Radio Havana and Radio Moscow and just laugh at some of it. Then the BBC for the strait story, and Voice Of America for our propaganda spin. Ah, the good old days. It’s become harder to get good shortwave news lately. The internet has killed a lot of it, and living in an Electronic Smog Jungle squashed the smaller stations for me. I still travel with a SW radio, but the pickings are often slim. Yet listening to all sides sharpened the discriminator (in the radio detector / BS detector sense…)

Hopefully this little missive will help folks to sharpen their own news discriminator and BS detector, and encourage a bit wider sampling of sources. Don’t be afraid, listening to a bit of RT or DW or even Fox won’t corrupt your brain. On the contrary, in conflict their is information. Who is NOT covering a story that’s on another. What is missing from that quote here? Who is spouting opinion and calling it news? Where is emotion being used to wash away facts? It’s a pretty darned good education…

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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80 Responses to Chop, Twist & 4 Wall – per RT and NBC

  1. philjourdan says:

    I actually do not “watch” most news, I read it. And as such, I read what Trump said, and how the “4 walls” tried to spin it. But even the spin is lame. I guess it will work on the gruberites. But anyone else would have to pause and say – maybe he is right (without the context). With the context, it is causing those “4 walls” a lot of black eyes as it turns out most of them have said the same thing, and even Hillary has!

    They are getting desperate. And it works on some – those who WANT to believe it. But the reason for the 4% rating for the MSM is because most know they are doing it, and either ignore it or get the actual facts.

  2. Pouncer says:

    Imagine serving on a jury for a complicated case at which the judge has ordered the court reporter to provide a daily transcript of presentations made by both (all?) sides. Of course the process is adversarial; so any claims made will be addressed by counter-claims; evidence will met with contradictory evidence; testimony with conflicting testimony …

    Now imagine yourself being a juror receiving, not a transcript, but excerpts or abstracts of a day’s proceedings. The paragraphs have “catchy” headers or bulleted labels: “Prosecution’s newest witness regurgitates previously refuted allegations…” or “Defense has great day with attractive, plausible, witness.”

    And as the trial moves along you notice the actual events of the day are recorded less and less and new information is provided, NOT about the actual case but the effect of the recent evidence and testimony on your fellow jurors: “Jury’s Women leaning toward acquittal, insiders report” or “Catholic Male Jurors say faith, not evidence, may determine outcome.”

    Now imagine that DURING TESTIMONY the court reporter intervenes to “correct” or “refute” or “Fact Check” a witness’s remarks.

    How long does this go on before you lose interest in the actual trial and begin plotting the removal of the court reporter?

  3. Gail Combs says:

    Larry already posted this but it also belongs here. Notice the MSM rips Trump a new one over a nothing burger but does not say a word about Hillary baiting Putin.

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/07/the-kremlin-really-believes-that-hillary-clinton-will-start-a-war-with-russia-donald-trump-vladimir-putin/

    If Hillary Clinton is elected president, the world will remember Aug. 25 as the day she began the Second Cold War.

    In a speech last month nominally about Donald Trump, Clinton called Russian President Vladimir Putin the godfather of right-wing, extreme nationalism. To Kremlin-watchers, those were not random epithets. Two years earlier, in the most famous address of his career, Putin accused the West of backing an armed seizure of power in Ukraine by “extremists, nationalists, and right-wingers.” Clinton had not merely insulted Russia’s president: She had done so in his own words.

    Worse, they were words originally directed at neo-Nazis. In Moscow, this was seen as a reprise of Clinton’s comments comparing Putin to Hitler. It injected an element of personal animus into an already strained relationship — but, more importantly, it set up Putin as the representative of an ideology that is fundamentally opposed to the United States.

    Even as relations between Russia and the West have sunk to new lows in the wake of 2014’s revolution in Ukraine, the Kremlin has long contended that a Cold War II is impossible. That’s because, while there may be differences over, say, the fate of Donetsk, there is no longer a fundamental ideological struggle dividing East and West. To Russian ears, Clinton seemed determined in her speech to provide this missing ingredient for bipolar enmity, painting Moscow as the vanguard for racism, intolerance, and misogyny around the globe.

    The nation Clinton described was unrecognizable to its citizens….

    Thank goodness Putin is a very smart leader and has pretty much ignored provocations so far.

    I also think the Democrats are afraid, given their interference in other countries elections, that Russia may protest election fraud in the US election if Hillary wins. Therefore the Democrats are trying to spike Russia’s guns by connecting Putin and Trump before hand so Russia does not look like the impartial observer they actually are.

  4. Gail Combs says:

    I take Paul Craig Roberts with a grain of salt because he really really dislikes the Jewish people. However he has a guest post by Putin.
    Guest Column from Vladimir Putin, President of Russia

    and several more link

    The newest titled Putin Politely Expresses His Amazement At Western Stupidity on 08 September, 2016

    I really prefer to hear the full speech and not just sound bites that get twisted by the MSM.

  5. Gail Combs says:

    Trump rallies link
    Trump policy link

  6. Glenn999 says:

    I always listen to my hourly propaganda update and believe every word…is a lie. I have been set free, but when I talk with some of my friends, I realize how effective those mainstream “news” outlets are. Most of my unenlightened friends will have some comment on some news story that they have been fed and are now regurgitating. It’s sad.
    I tell them to watch for big breaking stories and then compare coverage on various news channels, including conservative talk radio, for different perspectives. I also urge them to visit newsbusters.org so that you can understand liberal bias as it occurs on radio, tv, and in print.

    Let’s hope that the liberal media’s extreme attempts to get Clinton elected will finally reveal their true nature to the general populace, and through that, finally wake up..

  7. Gail Combs says:

    “…How long does this go on before you lose interest in the actual trial and begin plotting the removal of the court reporter?”

    From some of the comments I have seen at the ConsevativeTreeHouse, I think if there is a revolt they are going to go first for the MSM, or at least simultaneously. The feeling of betrayal by the press is a lot greater than with the politicians who you expect to be a bit sleazy.

    The TreeHouse commenters are rather religious and do not swear BTW. It is also a very large group so the deep dislike of the press probably reflects the outlook of many in Flyover Country.

  8. Larry Ledwick says:

    I tend to do the same, have a round table of sources I watch (check on) sometimes going to a particular site precisely because I know they spin a certain way to see what the counter points are to the prevailing drum beat of the lock step media.

    As far as Putin and Russia my feelings are much the same with a small twist. I also see them for what they are another big country with a lot of potential which has been crippled by a couple centuries of unfortunate history. But like us they want to do good for their own people and their own legitimate strategic interests. I don’t begrudge them trying to further their interests any more than I begrudge a hunting dog wanting to chase a rabbit.

    Based on my military experience though I do also respect their capabilities and their history of resorting to force when other means are not quick enough to satisfy their wants. Not evil just a predilection, like our predilection to give opponents 3 times too many chances to conform to our norms rather than accepting their well know historical norms. Both the US and Russia (and China) use force to achieve important self interest goals we just have slightly different styles of using force.

    As noted above it is stupid to go out of your way to publicly insult or humiliate foreign leaders. Like a construction worker’s bumper sticker I saw a few decades ago:

    Be careful who’s toes you step on, they may be connected to the A** you have to kiss tomorrow!

    Obama (and the Democrats) clearly do not understand that, as they have adopted a pervading culture of insult, innuendo, and slander as their style of doing business over the last couple decades.

    It is okay for the intellectual leaders of the left to say the most horrible things about people they disagree with but a major unforgivable crime to speak the truth if it embarrasses one of their fellow travelers.

    I have a great deal of respect for Russians and their areas of specialty in international affairs.
    They do some of the best espionage, disinformation, and manipulation of public media of any country in the world. They have been doing it very successfully for over 100 years. In those areas the US is a neophyte. The older countries like France, and Britain are better at it than we are but not as good (or scornful of limits) as the Russians. If it is important enough the Russians will do what ever it takes to get the job done, unconstrained by “nice guy” rules. Putin like many very powerful crime and national leaders understands that certain actions are mostly counter productive, but that does not stop him from taking those actions if his priority is high enough and he feels they would be effective. They see it all as a continuum of degrees of force and scruples rather than some arbitrary set of “fair rules”.

    The forces that drove the Soviet Socialists Republic to destruction — (trying to reach parity and gain world respect “pecking order status” among nations ) still exist and they will keep pushing for what they see as their proper rank in the hierarchy of nations no matter what it takes. China is entering the same phase seeking their “proper rank” among nations.

    Both of them are opponents to be respected and when appropriate, feared and should be treated with due caution and respect, but not hatred. They are just responding to one of the most basic of all human drives, seeking status and respect among their peers. They can be worked with as mutually respected opponents if you allow them reasonable exercise of their own sovereignty and national interest. Try to limit that too much, and like a dog too often chastised they will bite you.

  9. Gail Combs says:

    Larry, that is pretty much my take also. I saw the Ukraine stuff coming a long time before it happened. Luboš Motl had a pretty interesting take on what was happening too. I am way passed the ‘USA can do no evil’ and Russia is the bad guy crap.

    The EU wanted to grab the Ukraine (the breadbasket of Europe) and the USA was willing to over throw the government and install a puppet so it would happen. This despite treaties that the Ukraine would remain within the Russian sphere as part of their independence.

    As far as I am concerned this is no different than Mexico grabbing California… Which may well happen thanks to the Left kissing La Raza rears.

  10. Larry Ledwick says:

    The EU wanted to grab the Ukraine (the breadbasket of Europe) and the USA was willing to over throw the government and install a puppet so it would happen. This despite treaties that the Ukraine would remain within the Russian sphere as part of their independence.

    I disagree with that, there is a lot of evidence that Soros was very deeply involved in pushing Ukraine into war, I think that situation is a lot more complex that is currently apparent.

    The “CIA did it” was the Russian disinformation campaign to hide their “little green men” covert invasion. Russia has strong strategic and historical reasons for wanting Ukraine to not be NATO, they have little chance of avoiding becoming a speed bump for Russia’s attempt to re-create that border cushion it had in the Soviet Era until or unless Ukraine sorts out it’s own house and creates and effective military that can make Russian aggression in that area too expensive. There is ample reason to believe the Russians triggered the war by stirring up or possibly co-opting the protests. Soros was throwing around a lot of money but no telling who’s side he was really on other than his own.

    Right now Ukraine like Syria is a handy proving ground for Russian troops to get blooded and shake down new equipment and tactics as Putin tries to put their military on a modern footing and make them contemporaries of NATO, China and the US. So as long as either of those conflicts are not too costly they will be of more value to Russia for combat testing and evaluation than they are a down side to internal politics.

    https://20committee.com/2015/01/17/why-ukraine-is-losing/
    https://20committee.com/2015/01/18/ukraine-and-the-lessons-of-georgia/
    https://20committee.com/2015/01/23/the-fate-of-ukraine/
    https://20committee.com/2015/02/04/on-arming-ukraine/
    https://20committee.com/2015/03/08/how-ukraine-can-win/

  11. Oliver K. Manuel says:

    Behind the scenes, I am certain Putin, Obana et al. report to the same arrogant fool.

    What other explanation is there for worldwide, lock-step “97% consensus scientific” support for illogical, irrational and false Standard Models?

  12. Stan says:

    If Trump said he liked puppies the idiots in the MSM would claim he is racist against cats.

  13. Gail Combs says:

    Larry,
    It would seem that Hilllary as Sec of State was taking her marching orders from Soros at least part of the time.

    http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/08/14/wikileaks-e-mails-reveal-clinton-taking-marching-orders-george-soros/

    My impression about the Ukraine was mostly from Luboš Motl, who as a Czech would have been a bit closer to the situation and more concerned since it was in his backyard. I can not say I paid all that much attention to the situation except to think the EU was stupid when they made a grab for the Ukraine and Obama for sticking his nose in.

    Here is an interesting essay:
    Guest blog by Mr Jack Matlock, former U.S. ambassador to Czechoslovakia (1981-83) and USSR (1987-91)

    http://motls.blogspot.com/2014/03/ukraine-price-of-internal-division.html

  14. Ralph B says:

    One reason Russia may be wary of or anti-Clinton goes back to Kosovo. Here is a place the US had no reason to be…yet who did we bomb? The Russian backed Slavs. Not something Russia will forget, and my opinion is they think Bill will be the one calling the shots.

  15. E.M.Smith says:

    @Ralph:

    Oh yeah… I remember that now…

    Also note Soros funds Hillary and she takes his orders, while Russia has issued an arrest warrent for him…

  16. Oliver K. Manuel says:

    Regretfully, I now see the presidential election as part of the charade.

    Humanity lives as slaves inside a technological matrix of deceit, willingly giving away their ability to reason for themselves in order to join the “97% scientific consensus” fabricated and held together with public research funds directed to self-serving “scientists.”

  17. Oliver K. Manuel says:

    Regretfully, I now see the presidential election as part of the charade.

    Humanity lives as slaves inside a technological matrix of deceit, willingly giving away their ability to reason for themselves in order to join the “97% scientific consensus” fabricated and held together with public research funds directed to self-serving “scientists.”

  18. tom0mason says:

    EM and all,

    You may all be interested in Obama’s plan to give away ICAAN to the UN.
    That will enhance freedom of speech? I think not.

    Ted Cruz outlines his objections here
    https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=2782

  19. John F. Hultquist says:

    I commented on No Trick Zone [ 2016/09/09 ] regarding watered-down climate targets. The odd issue was ” … reducing the consumption of meat …
    My contribution was that this (<meat) was going to happen anyway because Germany's population is set to decline.
    I added that this population decline has started in Russia:
    http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/russian-demographics-perfect-storm

    The MSM seem to fixate on miniscule things while ignoring major trends. I don't care that Taylor Swift is not getting married now, or that some pisswilly (dad's term) hasn't a clue about Aleppo (Pinus halepensis !?) or that some rich jock displays his/her disrespect for God, country, or Donald Trump.
    There is a saying: ‘demographics is destiny’
    Found here:
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/3982638-demographics-destiny-big-picture-china

    So Russia and China have demographic issues. Not “blood” so it doesn’t lead. Western elites think voting for the first woman (USA) president is the only thing worth reporting. That and that the current president thinks CO2 is the biggest threat since The Pine Tree Tax.
    Back to my room, now.

  20. Larry Ledwick says:

    Interesting little item here in regard to Russia, Soros and Clinton.

    http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/09/09/fox-news-analyst-and-clinton-operative-douglas-e-schoen-accepted-millions-of-dollars-to-agitate-for-war-with-russia/

    So the bottom line here is how would Clinton or her fellow travelers benefit if they succeeded in agitating Russia and the US into a war??

    Boy the deeper you dig the more irrational this complex gets. A super power war would be a catastrophe for the entire civilized world, unless your goal was to kill off 30% of the worlds population, and destroy the west’s industrial base, leaving China as the remaining super power??

  21. omanuel says:

    After Climategate emails started to awaken me to reality, I realized that George Orwell was right when he concluded in 1946 that a new technological matrix of deceit was arising from the ruins of WWII.

    Although dying from tuberculosis, he moved to the Scottish Isle of Jura to start writing NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR

    Prrscott S. Bush, the father of the elder President George Bush designed the plan after WWII for the National Academy of Sciences to construct and maintain a worldwide web of deceit by limiting public research funds to “scientists” who willingly joined the “97% scientific consensus” for Standard Models of Reality!

    Awakening to reality in 2016 is a major shock to the human psyche.

  22. You wrote:
    “Finally, the same story shows on ALL of the major “Progressive” outlets at the same time (the 4 Wall). MSNBC / CNBC / CNN especially SEEM TO RUN IN CLOSE CONTACT. Then there are all the “progressive” blogs and news papers that run with it too (starting with the New York Times as “ministry leader” in the print world.”

    In fact at one time the contact between people in the news media was so close there was an official, secret listserve for the group. It was known as Journolist. An example of their work being outed is here: http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/20/documents-show-media-plotting-to-kill-stories-about-rev-jeremiah-wright/

    The listserve group supposedly shut down some time ago. But that doesn’t mean that a similar group hasn’t been formed to take its place. Or am I too cynical?

  23. The Journolist membership was posted here: http://thevailspot.blogspot.com/2011/01/journolist-membership.html

    It is populated with print and blog “personalities”. I didn’t see any network news names in my quick glance. The list was published in 2011. I haven’t tried to find out where all these people are now.

  24. Larry Ledwick says:

    We also know that the media had conference call coordination of agenda’s with leaders of the various political power groups. Businesses do it all the time to coordinate public relations pushes, ad campaigns etc. It is only natural that the same methods bleed into the news cycle manipulation domain. Everybody does it so I would be very very surprised if there was not a dark net chat room where only the anointed can discuss and coordinate the next days news items and coverage. It may not be the news anchors themselves but one way or another the powerful will try to steer coverage and commentary in a direction beneficial to their cause. Like fight club they just don’t talk about these little hubs of coordination where ever they might be. Before modern technology a lot of this coordination took place on the golf course with “friends” getting together for a game of golf and quietly talking about issues that concerned them in the low risk environment of a membership only country club and out on the 7th green far from the prying eyes of the media and the general public.
    Teleconferences, dark chat rooms would be the perfectly natural evolutionary step of the golf course get together.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/03/07/insider-reveals-salem-media-was-part-of-the-coordinated-gang-of-eight-manipulation/
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/28/why-did-obamas-campaign-manager-brief-susan-rice-ahead-of-benghazi-tv-show-appearances/
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html
    http://www.artnet.com/magazineus/reviews/davis/questions-for-patrick-courrielche10-10-09.asp

  25. Gail Combs says:

    Larry says “….Boy the deeper you dig the more irrational this complex gets. A super power war would be a catastrophe for the entire civilized world, unless your goal was to kill off 30% of the worlds population, and destroy the west’s industrial base, leaving China as the remaining super power??”

    That is the only thing I can see. Remember that Maurice Strong wanted China to become THE super power.

    If you consider it:
    #1. Asians are about 10 IQ points higher

    #2. The Chinese People have been serfs for thousands and thousands of years and their culture does not hold human life sacrosanct. This makes them more useful to the elite than Surly Curmudgeons™

    #3. Asians do not need the high calorie, high protein diet, westerners esp. Americans do.

    #4. N. Korea is close to a viable nuclear bomb and the US Congress has intentionally left the USA vulnerable. Dr Vincent Pry suggests an EMP event will wipe out 90% of Americans.

    His testimony to congress:
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-113hhrg89763/pdf/CHRG-113hhrg89763.pdf

    Natural EMP from a geomagnetic super-storm like the 1859 Carrington Event or the 1921 Railroad Storm, a nuclear EMP attack from terrorists or rogue states as practiced by North Korea during the nuclear crisis of 2013 are both existential threats that could kill 9 of 10 Americans through starvation, disease, and societal collapse.

    A natural EMP catastrophe or nuclear EMP attack could black out the National electric grid for months or years and collapse all the other critical infrastructures, communications, transportation, banking and finance, food and water, necessary to sustain modern society and the lives of 310 million Americans. Passage of the SHIELD Act to protect the National electric grid is urgently necessary. In 2010, after the House unanimously passed the GRID Act, if one Senator had not put a hold on the bill, today in 2014 the Nation would already be protected …..

    The Act got killed in committee.

    I have seen NOTHING that makes me thing the American Ruling Class is anything but very dangerous to the average American.

  26. Larry Ledwick says:

    #4. N. Korea is close to a viable nuclear bomb and the US Congress has intentionally left the USA vulnerable.

    The only item I disagree with is this.
    In my judgement they already have probably several militarily effective devices (assuming this last shot was similar in construction and size to the one Dear Leader was photographed with a while back. Yield was about 70% of the Hiroshima device, the last 3 shots have all been well within the tactical nuclear device power range suitable for use on the Korean peninsula or to attack Japan, Guam or other similar small area targets . In many respects smaller devices are more dangerous than larger devices. They deliver a higher percentage of their weapon energy close to the ground. 3 or 4 small devices set off simultaneously in the same area would be more destructive than the same weapons material used in a single larger device. Over the short distances needed in tactical strikes on the Korean Peninsula guidance accuracy is not terribly important.

    Their thermal pulse is very short duration giving no time for protective actions (ie flash burns like received in Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Larger devices have a flash duration long enough that some effective protective actions are possible.

    Their prompt nuclear radiation pulse effects extend beyond the range of their militarily effective blast effects (the neutron bomb was basically a very small device with low self shielding to maximize the neutron and gamma pulse)

    Effective EMP weapons do not require a large kinetic energy yield, it requires a high gamma ray output pulse. The designs they have been testing, may in fact be so called super EMP designs intentionally designed to have very high gamma energy release at the expense of lower blast effects.

    The current devices, if capable of being placed on their small missiles would also be highly effective as nuclear device truck bombs, or ship/submarine bombs to attack port facilities.

    I shudder to think what would happen if Iran got a few dozen of those devices when the world thought they had no operational nuclear capability.

    There is high likelihood that Iran and Korea are cooperating on design and development. Korea may be sharing all important details of weapon design in exchange for money, oil or low enriched nuclear material or Iran’s help with high efficiency centrifuge design which Iran can continue under the sham nuclear agreement.

    Not to mention having $1.7 B in cash on hand thanks to the hostage ransom payments which is exactly what Korea would need to out flank sanctions.

    I am far more concerned about Korea or Iran doing something stupid with Nuclear weapons than I am with Russia or China. Both countries do not use the same calculus the super powers do regarding use of such a weapon. In the case of Iran, some of their more radical religious leaders would welcome a massive counter strike thinking it is a prerequisite for the return of the Twelfth Imam, the “hidden Imam” Muhammad al-Mahdi who many believe requires massive destruction and chaos to return.

  27. Oliver K. Manuel says:

    The social costs are staggering from a simple error inserted in the basic definition of nuclear binding energy eighty years (1936-2016) ago:

    http://www.journalijar.com/article/11650/neutron-repulsion–social-costs-from-overlooking-this-power/

    That error is the slope in the baseline for calculating nuclear binding energies, shown across the top of Figure 2.

  28. gallopingcamel says:

    Sixty years ago you needed to study Latin or Russian to enter Cambridge university. I chose to study Latin but with hindsight Russian would have been more useful.

    We were much better served by Condoleezza Rice who is fluent in Russian than Susan Rice who is not. I also doubt that Condoleezza would have lied about Benghazi.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rice

  29. John Silver says:

    Please don’t consume “news” in any form.
    You know it is just lying propaganda to condition your little souls.
    So just stop it, will you.

  30. Gail Combs says:

    Larry,

    I figure that China would use Korea or possibly Iran as the sacrificial goat. Proxy wars have been in vogue since WWII.

    Now that the Elite have radically weakened the USA and Europe they are fair game for direct attack by China.

    I am a heck of a lot more worried about China than I am about Russia. At this point keeping Russia as a ‘friend’ makes a heck of a lot more sense. In that regard I think Clinton is Nucking Futs.

    China hates our guts:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/04/china_picks_at_the_scab_to_keep_the_wound_fresh.html

    http://gulfnews.com/culture/books/lessons-of-history-china-s-century-of-humiliation-1.884742

    While Russia (not the USSR) has a long history of friendship with the USA.

    People forget that Trump spent 5 years in a Military junior high and high school. He is not completely without training in military history and tactics.

  31. Gail Combs says:

    Hillary’s ‘Basket of Deplorable’ is turning into a basket of hand gernades with the pins pulled. (She forgot the cardinal rule in politics — NEVER insult the voters!)

    As one commenter put it,
    “Hilary’s Hate America Tour [is] in full swing. Old hate bait is at it again. So boring. Liberal labels are sooo last year.
    …………

    Hillary forgot her mentor’s advice.

    She tried this:

    13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and ‘frozen.’…

    And got this,

    “…any target can always say, ‘Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?’ When your ‘freeze the target,’ you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments…. Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the ‘others’ come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target…’

    Only to discover that it was the entire Trump voter base, over 50 million Americans, who consider themselves the target AND they are Pi$$ as He!! (We were SUPPOSED to recoil in horror from the racist label not laugh at it.)

    She also forgot THIS warning

    7. “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time….”

    After eight years of being beat over the head, the name calling has gotten way too old and is now ignored. (Do you really care if Cop shooters and violent destructive mental infants call you names?)

    However Trump supports have not forgotten this rule.

    5. “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.”

    Maybe Hillary should have taken Saul’s job offer and learned how to be an effective communist organizer. At this point all she has left is her paid trollbots who as expected are ‘reacting to our advantage.’ It is really hard to defend a racist like Hillary with all her documented racist actions and comments.

    The MSM is left with trying to put out the fire. Twitter is desperately switching the hastag ‘Deplorable’ to ‘Adorable’ with baskets of kitties and puppies and the Alternate Media is having a field day with the comment count going through the roof.

    Saul Alinsky – Quotes and Excerptsfrom Free Republic

    Speaking of which do not forget Zombietimes William Ayers’ forgotten communist manifesto: Prairie Fire

  32. H.R. says:

    The first time I heard of Hillary using ‘Deplorable’ I laughed. My first reaction was, “I want the T-shirt!”

    I’d like to get 2-3 T-shirts with ‘Deplorable’ on them so I can wear one every day until the election. That would be better than a Trump yard sign.
    .
    .
    My wife just came in from feeding the critters and I told her I wanted a ‘Deplorable’ T-shirt. She said, “I love it! I love it!” So I’ll be looking for one or else have one made after I catch up with my daily blog checks.

  33. H.R. says:

    Decided to design my own. Surprisingly inexpensive.

    2 T-shirts ordered PLUS one hat. At check-out, they did a bunch of suggestion selling and the hat, with ‘Deplorable’ over a Nike-like swoosh, popped up. Awesome! Had to get it.

    So… 2 shirts and a hat. Delivery in 10 business days. This is better than Christmas Day.

    (Are they here yet? Are they here yet? Are they here yet?

  34. E.M.Smith says:

    @H.R.:

    I know a guy who does custom silkscreen (shirts and such, bumper stickers, etc.) who does overnight express if desired. If anyone wants a contact, I’ll post it. Out of Florida, so international might be harder, slower, more expensive; USA is fast and easy.

    @Gail:

    Yeah, some years back the old racebaiting women hater crap stopped working on me (I’m not sure it ever did, but for a while I cared what someone might think.) Now I just think “Oh, so you hate white men. Got it. Sad, but now I can ignore you.”

    Varney just had a short rant about it, pointing out his family has something like 2 religions, 5 nationalities, and 3? races, just in his family. I think that’s part of the problem for the Master Baiters… the bait isn’t working as we all are like that. My family is, I think, 3 or 4 religions (not real sure exactly), at least 3 races (including Native American and Hispanic mixed with European and maybe seasoned with Carribean mix including a bit of Africa.. oh and some Semitic if you count that as a race instead of a language group.) Trying to count the nationalities is a fools errand as I once calculated about 400 total Aunts, Uncles, cousins and 2nd cousins just to my generation with most of them married to something else…

    We’ve got, at least, going only 2 degrees from me (immediate siblings, their spouses & kids, my aunts and Uncles): English, Irish, French, German, Italian, Hispanic (Spanish and Puerto Rican and likely Mexican flavors), some unknown to me Indian Tribe (the nephew knows what he is but I didn’t catch it), Dutch, Swedish or Norwegian (they might have been one country when they came over), Russian, Jewish (as a nationality), and that leaves about 380 that I don’t know in my cousins and 2nd cousins… but IIRC I’ve seen some photo of a relative I’ve never met with an Asian spouse.

    So I’m supposed to be somehow a hater and xenophobic? Hell, I can’t even tell you what my “other” (sociology sense of outsider group) would be! Statistically, at this point, I’ve got to have at least one of everything in my family at the level of 3rd cousins (that brings in more of the family in Canada, Australia & New Zealand)

    Now we get to start on the Spousal family….

    Yeah, that much of a mix…. ONE of her cousins married a guy in Argentina and then they moved somewhere in Europe (Britain?). So with just one cousin, you get 3 nationalities and a couple of races (oh, and different languages).

    Most of America is now like that.

    Call me misogynistic and I just look over at my wife of several decades, then at my wonderful redhead daughter, and think “Hillary, whatever crap you are smoking has made you hateful, rude, and out of touch with reality. I can now dismiss you.” People telling lies about me does not get them my vote. Similarly, my spouse is not keen on folks insulting her hubby (who does all the cooking, btw…)

    So yeah, I’m thinking about getting a Deplorable wardrobe…

    “Rabble And Ordinary Deplorable Americans for Trump!” is a bit long for a Tee shirt, but I’ll work on it a bit…

  35. H.R. says:

    E.M. Thanks for offering a T-shirt contact, but I used ‘VistaPrint’. They will do quantities of 1. I’m all paid up on my order.

    http://www.vistaprint.com/studio/review.aspx?uei=200&ag=True&alt_doc_id=QHTC9-04A49-6S1

    I’m hoping the link will go to the swoosh design I picked, I’m pretty sure the text I used is in a temp file so I’m also sure that my text won’t show after I leave. Sooo…

    On my T-shirt, it has the same Nike-like swoosh with text above and below. Here’s my text.

    (In cursive script, about 2″ letters) Deplorable
    ========swoosh thingy====================================
    (Upper/lower case printed 3/4″ high) P.S. What was in that “water” glass?

    And the hat popped up with just “Deplorable” in script above the swoosh. Had to have it!

  36. E.M.Smith says:

    The Florida guy does any quantity, even one. But I’m not pimping for him, just figured I’d find out how impatient you really are :-)

  37. Gail Combs says:

    If you do not mind zipping through 1600 replys, there is some really creative artwork at ConservativeTreeHouse

    I would post a couple but they do not show on my machine in Firefox.

  38. Gail Combs says:

    Judge Jeanine Pirro rips Hillary a new one for calling HER, as a Trump supporter, deplorable. Then she gets into a cat fight with the Hillary’s Apologist who tries to say it was TRUMP that Hillary was calling deplorable and not his supporters… Yeah right, like that spin is going to fly.

    Notice that Clinton put us in two baskets.

    Clinton says “you know, just to be grossly generalist, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables.”

    “Right?” [Elitist crowd laughs] “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it…”

    However people generally miss Hillary’s reference to the other basket. The other basket is just as important, those she describes as feeling left out and ignored by the economy and their government, those she says are to be pitied. You know the ones her husband put out of a job. What she means is people that can’t adapt to ‘post-industrial’ American society, the imbeciles or as his husband called them ‘The Coal People’

    So which basket are you in, “the deplorable” or “the pitiful” basket. Both she is saying has no place in America. The people who DO belong, the people Hillary actually supports, are the illegals, terrorists, druggies, vandals, thieves, cop killers, rapists and other predators, parasites and prey of the Democratic party.

    She just uses the Politically correct term to describe them.
    ………..
    Note that the Judge Trump calls a Mexican was a La Raza supporter, that is he wants the South West given to Mexico and defends illegals in US courts. As an anchor baby born to illegals he IS a Mexican by Mexican law but may not be an American.

    https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2015/08/22/babies-dont-provide-anchors/

    I really wish more people would pay attention.

  39. Gail Combs says:

    ROTFLMAO!

    In the you just can’t be this stupid so it must be contemptuous arrogance instead catagory.

    Brian Fallon, Hillary’s campaign press secretary claimed on CNN
    Mrs. Clinton does not have a contagious pneumonia.  So it was ok to play with her grandchildren and have that photo-op with the little girl.
    Other campaign member have pneumonia, but remember it is NOT contagious
    Mrs. Clinton did not faint.  She is strong, so don’t believe your eyes. Believe only what we tell you to believe. 

    But the statement that really takes the cake is this from the New York Daily News.

    Hillary Clinton’s full-time job right now is rushing from place to place on those tube-shaped petri dishes called airplanes, speaking for hours on end with little sleep, and then diving into crowds of often unwashed deplorables thrusting babies into her face.

    Rushing from place to place???? Aug 20th, 2016 What’s Wrong With Her? Hillary has No Campaign Rallies Scheduled on her Calendar Trump now has more than doubled the number of events that Clinton has held.  Month to date through August 19th Trump has held 24 campaign events to Clinton’s 11.

    unwashed deplorables thrusting babies into her face.

    Those are HILLARY’S VOTERS you are now insulting!

    Not that anyone is bothering to hold many babies up for the witch to kiss.

    Photo From Church M1L1tant Keep Babies Away From Hillary Clinton by Michael Voris, February 24, 2016 I think he has a point.
    (WordUnimpressed censored url)

  40. Gail Combs says:

    The kids at Reddit (mainly under 35 so they are kids to me) are really having fun with the whole episode.

    (wwwDOT)reddit.com/r/politics/comments/52emob/clintons_pneumonia_cover_story_proves_her/

    The thread on the bolt falling out going clank as Hillary collapses is hilarious.

    Speaking of the under 35 crowd. Huffington Post made a big mistake giving David Seaman the boot over his two columns Hillary’s health. Alex Jones offered him a job immediately and it looks like he took it.

    Ex-Huff Post Journo: How The Media Sleeps With Hillary
    Here’s just how close Hillary is to the mainstream media
    David Seaman | Infowars.com – September 2, 2016

    I wonder how many of David’s readers will follow him to infowars. Alex bounces off walls, but some of his other reporters (Paul Joseph Watson are good and he seems to let them have their head. (I am not a follower but check him out occasionally.)

    My Lord I can not stop laughing as the elite continue to insert both feet in their mouths.

  41. E.M.Smith says:

    They are not prepared for a world where nobody trusts the news they buy and more news it recorded on ubiquitous phones than by the reporters they own…

    When they try to shut it down, it will just go encrypted peer to peer (onion routing). The tech is out of the bottle and the folks who make it go are not on their side.

  42. Gail Combs says:

    You got it E.M.

    The problem they have is the under 35 crowd are idealistic and they take it very hard when they find they have been lied to. David Seaman is now really digging into the DNC Wilileaks and the Clinton E-mails. He is doing a series of Tweets (David Seaman aka D.G. Seaman
    has 35.4K twitter followers) linked to videos and now has Alex Jones backing him up with a job.

    That crowd believes they have freedom of speech and having it rubbed into their face that the democrats and MSM will lie and censor and deny them their God given and Constitutionally guarrenteed rights is a real eye opener.

    …The day after a horrific shooting spree by what appears to be a radicalized Muslim man and his partner in San Bernardino, California, Attorney General Loretta Lynch pledged to a Muslim advocacy and lobbying group that she would take aggressive action against anyone who used “anti-Muslim rhetoric” that “edges toward violence.” Speaking to the audience at the Muslim Advocates’ 10th anniversary dinner Thursday, Lynch said her “greatest fear” is the “incredibly disturbing rise of anti-Muslim rhetoric” in America and vowed to prosecute any guilty of what she deemed violence-inspiring speech. “The fear that you have just mentioned is in fact my greatest fear as a prosecutor, as someone who is sworn to the protection of all of the American people, which is that the rhetoric will be accompanied by acts of violence,” she said….

    After touting the numbers of “investigations into acts of anti-Muslim hatred” and “bigoted actions” against Muslims launched by her DOJ, Lynch suggested the Constitution does not protect “actions predicated on violent talk” and pledged to prosecute those responsible….

    Just remember: Once free speech is gone in principle, it’s only a matter of time before it’s gone in practice.

    Don’t say Loretta Lynch didn’t warn you.
    http://capitalismmagazine.com/2015/12/criticizing-islam-and-free-speech/

    More on the restriction on Free speech.

    ….Lynch also remarked how the federal government has “had a thousand investigations into acts of anti-Muslim hatred, including rhetoric and bigoted actions, with over 45 prosecutions,” since the September 11, 2001, terror attacks on American soil…

    She [Pam Geller] wrote: “In an interview … with popular Florida radio host (and woman warrior) Joyce Kaufman, we discussed Attorney General Loretta Lynch’s pledge to Muslim groups that she would prosecute ‘anti-Muslim’ rhetoric. That was the Obama administration’s take away from the San Bernardino jihad slaughter – sharia enforcement. I said to Joyce, if some idiot did something stupid and had Atlas Shrugs in his browser history, then by all accounts, Lynch could arrest me based on this new policy. And I declared, ‘Come and get me, biatch.’”

    She then turned a critical eye directly to the president, and wrote: “If Obama wants to go to war against the American people, I say, bring it on. Jihadists wage jihad in order to impose sharia and they have succeeded.
    http://www.wnd.com/2015/12/pamela-geller-to-obama-bring-it-on/#YHcBVpKKmWqyuYM3.99

    WHAT? Since when has it been against the law to be a jacka$$?

    What this smacks of is inch wise implementation of Sharia Law, I agree with Pam.

  43. Larry Ledwick says:

    They are not prepared for a world where nobody trusts the news they buy and more news it recorded on ubiquitous phones than by the reporters they own…

    Exactly the major media had a sweet deal in the 1960’s-1970’s they had almost 100% market share on the news with their only competition being rags like the National Enquirer.

    Just like Microsoft destroyed their strangle hold on software by becoming oppressive, the major media are systematically killing their own market as people realize they can do their own investigative reporting on the internet.

    (which is why I suspect the real agenda of internet regulation is to control this free range reporting by random users)

    The power of crowd sourcing news is totally over whelming the limited staffs they have even in the big media houses. Some where someone knows someone who saw something — that six connections to Kevin Bacon sort of news gathering can find things that no corporate news organization can compete with unless they also go open source and run 10,000 stringers.

    The news media is changing and they tried to hold onto the old model too long. What is funny is in doing that they keep outing themselves as being news manipulators rather than reporters.

    Journalism hopefully is at the dawn of a new beginning where real journalism returns as advocacy journalism gets strangled in it’s crib by the open source/ crowd source army.

  44. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry:

    To compete with the mob, or to censor it, would take as many actors as are in the mob. There are not that many in the world… That’s the problem they face.

    A few BILLION folks with iPhones and attitude needs a few BILLION folks actively oppressing them to stop it. Folks can effectively “re-tweet” a video from their phone to all their friends, then you just have to wait for 6 more degrees of re-send to cover the world… It’s done before it can be stopped.

    So having youtube is nice, even if they do snip way too much, but if it ever gets to be a problem, it can be bypassed pretty easy. Anyone can set up a video sharing site with a Linux box and an internet connection… Maybe I ought to do a demo set up on a R.Pi…

    “We who are about to go dark, have already built the tools” might well be the motto of the Linux world, when faced with internet censorship… Everything needed already exists and is stored all over the world in ways that can not be revoked. Darknets are already up and running. It took a major task force, working for years, from the FBI to crack Silkroad and they were doing heavy duty drug running (among other things). No way they could track down a million whack-a-mole video providers… then there’s that small problem of Russian Servers. Russia lets them be provided as a kind of service to the hacker community (and gets free copies early, I suspect… as a kind of payment in kind). How does the FBI take down a Russian server provided to a darknet, eh? And no, handing off ICAAN doesn’t enable stopping that, either. Darknets run inside whatever connectivity exists… (even over phone lines using modems if needed, or via wifi mesh nets…)

    Heck, every linux release already ships with all the encryption needed and pretty much all the routing (though Onion is an add on, it’s pretty ubiquitous). I have a few dozen (hundreds?) of old releases stored on various media and I’m not as much of a data packrat as most! Most of them including source code… (Newest ones using GIT I’ve not started cloning yet… one of those ‘someday’ projects…)

    So any attempt to enforce censorship is going to run smack dab into the *Nix culture of open communications and a few million of the Best And Brightest pushing back. Many of them from “inside”. Note that Snowden was an insider…

    BTW, if that sounds like a threat to TPTB Media, yeah, it is.

  45. Gail Combs says:

    The problem the elite have is the one they have ALWAYS had for the last couple centuries. They are not DOERS they are sit on your ass and pull strings-ers. They depend completely on OTHERS and they are not really all that smart. Look at how many of the ‘beautiful people’ are hooked on drugs, alcohol, sex and what not. Even an addiction to power (it is worse than cocaine) can cause you to do idiotic things as your world falls apart.

    The biggest problem is the middle class. We do not think we are inferior. The response to Hillary’s Deplorable Basket putdown shows the type of response they really really were not expecting. (We were supposed to cringe and crawl on our belly and ask forgiveness not start wearing tee-shirts mocking PC..)

    I also think they think they can control the internet, but as hubby said the favorite recreation in China is getting around the internet censorship.

  46. E.M.Smith says:

    Gail:

    The “internet” began as a DARPA project to have a military network that could not be blocked or shut down. They succeeded…

    It consists of a number of routers, all locally controlled. Someone breaks things “upstream”, you can “route around it” (in fact, automatic route around is built in and configurable).

    That’s the hardware layer.

    Originally Apple connected to the “internet” via a leased line to Olivetti, who had a leased line to someone else. We negotiated a deal with them to pay for part of their link if they let us piggy back on it. That same process can be done today if desired. Later the Telcos started selling direct “internet” links via DSL or whatever, but nothing at all prevents you from going back to that “peer to peer” structure anytime you like with anyone you like over any media you like.

    So you can mesh via WIFi, or use modems and regular phones, or virtual network tunnels through the “approved” network (look up ‘stunnel’…) I’ve configured ALL of those at one time or another. I used a VPN tunnel through the internet to connect two companies when the other one bought ours. A secure, private, hidden network running under the skin of the “internet”. It is a common technique.

    That’s the protocol layer

    At that point, you want to reach some kind of service. Usually this starts with an address lookup. You need to find “Bob’s Shoes”… and a DNS lookup tells you they are at 10.23.45.3 … so you can then route to them and connect to them and start that whole HTTP web page thing.

    Normally you use the DNS server of your Telco, but in fact, anyone can set up their own with anything they want in it. Companies most often use their own, so they can load it up with their private internal stuff too (hidden from outside view). I’ve set up many of those, too. They can point at the “root servers” directly so they don’t depend on their Telco. You can too, though it is discouraged if you are just a home gamer. ICAAN says what the major qualifiers are on names, and can hand out big blocks of IPs (last time I looked) but pretty much all blocks have already been handed out to companies and telcos and such, so taking them back would be very very hard. So they determine that, for example, .com and .net exist, but that .mikey does not.

    Now some creative folks realized that they could use their own DNS servers and make their own unapproved names. Thus .onion came into use as a ‘dark net’. It is a ‘dark net’ in that you can’t get to it using a normal DNS root server, but you can if you DIY with the whole DNS and routing thing. Folks who want to join a darknet need to find out what settings to put in their gear, and know that the particular dark net exists, but nothing stops them. One of them even uses very non-standard IP numbers of the form xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa (note the added level…) and then just routes that inside ‘regular’ IP to connect nodes through non-member boxes. For their dark net, you also need to hack your IP stack a little bit.

    So, say some crafty ICAAN UN Nazi-wanna-be says “We Are Shutting Down Breitbart”. First off, they can’t do that without the ‘owner’ of the delegated IP range agreeing. Even if the USA said it, and then put that denial of DNS lookup in THEIR root servers, you could still just put it in yours and route to them anyway. Pretty quickly a hoard of tweets would be sending that IP DNS entry around the world.

    Now say that very crafty Evil Bastard really wanted to lock things down, so they block that IP address in their routers. What’s needed? Breitbart just puts up a link to a friendly site (via modem, WiFi, cable over the rooftop, whatever) and sends a NEW DNS update. If they don’t want to keep this game going through a few down ‘n ups, they could just join one of the existing darknets (that just love this kind of thing) and then advertize that they are now to be found at breitbart.onion (or whatever). Thus growing the size of the dark nets… Since the darknets often tunnel encrypted inside the regular internet, you can’t really stop them unless you block all encrypted traffic… so now you can kiss off all commercial internet traffic. That would last about 20 seconds until the Banks started crying bloody murder… and just about every web site ‘had issues’ as the HTTPS failed everywhere.

    But even then, the darknet can just slide over onto private wires and private WIFi etc. etc. It takes longer but a new network forms around the need…

    One small example. Pirate Box
    https://daviddarts.com/piratebox/

    A small private wifi file server that serves a local pod of folks. It is, essentially, a ‘dark net in a box’ where folks can anonymously exchange files. So “someone” gets a load of juicy music. They go to a local hangout where someone else has a Pirate Box in a backpack “somewhere” and they upload their catch. Now anyone else in that area can download it. Also with privacy.

    It is a tiny “internet in a can” under the sole control of the owner. Anyone can do it.

    So in pretty short order, in the very worst case, you get a million little Pirate Boxes popping up with the latest Breitbart publication on them. Then 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon takes over… Someone from Breitbart ‘does lunch’ with his box in a bag. Others pick up the goods, and do afternoon coffee 50 miles away. One of them catches the commuter flight to one ocean over and has a nice breakfast… Not as fast as direct global internet, but inside a weekend the world can be covered. (Faster if ANYONE ANYWHERE has ANY internet connection and can send an encrypted bag-o-bits to other willing parties… and since there is no way they can ban and block all encryption… as encryption can be made indistinguishable from binary data archives…)

    Hopefully that helps make it clearer why I’m not so worried about anyone being able to censor the internet. Like trying to ban porn, or whiskey, folks will get what they want. It may take a tiny bit longer, and cost a little bit more, but ‘the goods’ will move.

    Heck, very worst case you send SD cards through the mail to a group of folks globally who load it onto their Pirate Boxes… Maybe $50 / day for fairly quick global coverage… via ‘sneaker net’…

  47. E.M.Smith says:

    Hmmm…

    Interesting. I see my above comment, but it isn’t showing in the new comments listing.

    It looks like at this time of night, WordPress “has issues’ with update speed. It looks like they ‘pend’ some stuff and do it when time permits… I had to ‘reload’ this page just to see the comment. My “control panel’ showed it completed, but it wasn’t displaying yet (probably they work off a cache somewhere to reduce resends and it needed a cache update…)

    We’ll see if comment #2 makes the first one show up in the new comments list…

    UPDATE: And it did…

  48. Gail Combs says:

    Thanks for the explanation E.M.

    The folks I am more worried about are the computer challenged like me who don’t know a bit from a byte. Of course we are going the way of the wooly mammoth and most have kids, or friends with kids to do the heavy lifting.
    ………….

    It has been fun this election season to watch Trump act the bull in the Politically Correct China Shop.

    All it took was someone brave enough, crass enough and wealthy enough to toss their idiotic PC crap back at them and refuse to back down. Now the dam has broken and the Elite can not put the PC muzzle back around our mouths… Thank goodness.

  49. Larry Ledwick says:

    Hmmm…

    Interesting. I see my above comment, but it isn’t showing in the new comments listing.

    I have noticed that repeatedly several of my “in the bit bucket” posts were actually there (if I opened a new window) but they did not show in the list of recent comments until a significant time lag later (long enough that I pinged you that they might have been gobbled up by the spam filter).

    When they do show up in the latest comments list, they are often down several posts, apparently they get sorted by the real time that they get submitted, not the time they show up in the listing.

    I have only noticed it in the last month or so. It also happens at other times of the day so it is not limited to just late in the evening.

  50. Larry Ledwick says:

    Gail there will always be backup for those less sophisticated, some 11 year old whiz kid will capture the info, then go out and paste handbills on buildings or stuff them in the wipers of cars. Again the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon wins because in just a few iterations everyone knows someone who has access to the info.

    The first time I ran across the concept of “6 degrees of separation” was in an unusual setting. Playboy magazine in the 1960’s had and interview with a real honest to god mob hit man. The reporter asked the guy how he would know he was for real. The guy said he would send him a message that could only come from him. Turns out the reporter had in idle chat with the guy mentioned he would be flying into Detroit or some other big city in the next couple days.

    When the reporter got off the flight (which he had never told the hit man the flight number or time of his flight) there was a guy standing in baggage claim with a sign that said something like “Franky says hi xxxxx”

    It was later explained to the reporter it was simply a result of geometric progression. Most socially active people know 100+ people by first name, and have a good enough connection with many of them to know wives names kids names where they work etc.

    The hit man had just put out the word in the mob grape vine the few things he knew about this reporter. Somebody, knew somebody, who knew somebody who knew an airline check in clerk etc etc etc.

    That is why those face book “please share” messages very often work spectacularly fast. If the message is compelling enough that a large fraction of facebook users share it, geometric growth ensures that in 5 -10 layers of sharing you reach someone who knows the person you are trying to reach personally.

    It is also the same reason that almost everyone in the US knows personally someone who lost someone in the 9/11 attack just one or two degrees of separation away.

    An internet (black net) underground would spring up quickly, although the government could shut down a lot of it, they could never plug all the leaks. The harder they tried the harder people would push back.

    Google, Facebook and the media are learning that first hand no matter what they silence some one some where grabbed a copy of the original before they took action and like mice in the fall in an old farm house it just keeps coming back.

  51. E.M.Smith says:

    @Larry:

    Thanks for the confirm.

    @Gail:

    No worries. I’ll be posting “how to’s” as I build more of my Pi Kit, and should the need arise, there will be an army of folks building what’s needed for the folks who need it.

    Note that a couple of the cell phone makers have already added built in ‘mesh’ networking and sharing facilities. We had a couple of dictators in places like Egypt where they “shut down the internet” and phone service during protests and viola, a year or so later the ‘fix’ is shipping as a commercial easy to use by anyone solution.

    Mesh nets let a collection of small nodes communicate through each other over the fabric of them all to talk from ‘edge to edge’ even though each phone is only talking to a couple of nearby phones. Really neat tech. So now “shut down the internet” and the mob shifts over to their collective local wifi to share tweets and videos and such… Add one guy somewhere with a pirate box or satellite phone (or TV uplink…) and all the event STILL gets shared with the world as near real time video…

    Any given block put in the ‘non-tech’ users face gets fixed / worked around in about a year. Tech Types toss up a kludge in hours, but for limited ‘in the know’ users. Somewhere in between are “folks like me”, who can put up some decent stuff, but not watching things closely enough to know it’s needed this minute… We fill out the gaps on the weeks to months scale…

    BTW, note that any Linux box can be made into a router, and used to bring up a network. It takes about an hour. Even the R.Pi (with added WiFi dongle) and cell phones (if you have a jail break on them and can load real code… or they have built in ‘tethering’ apps). So just about any old junk computers laying around, and any method they can connect with, makes a new network and a pod of resistance… then you start knitting together the pods… That was the original basic design of the DARPA work. A system that even if fully fragmented by nuclear war, would rapidly reform using whatever gear survived…

    Like when my DSL died and I used a R.Pi to route the house networks via a wireless hotspot to the internet… My “internet went down” and I flowed around the outage in about an hour. A few days later, it came back and I flowed back.

    Oh, another good example: In the early days of DSL, some folks in the hills above Sacramento could not get high speed from their Telco. Wasn’t willing to put in the wire and work. So they banded together and bought one private “leased line” to one home. Then the rest used over the counter WiFi gear to make a neighborhood wireless network, with the outgoing connection routed to that one leased line. Several years later when the Telco offered high speed DSL, the neighborhood told them “never mind, you are too late”… Note that only a couple of the users had real tech chops and built the core, the rest just did a ‘me too’ connect and chipped in cash. So this kind of thing isn’t a hypothetical. It has all been done before, somewhere by someone…

  52. E.M.Smith says:

    Larry:

    We just saw that with the video of Hillary fainting as she was stuffed into a van. It was ‘taken down’ almost as fast as it was posted, but by then, Fox had a copy and was airing it. Now it’s everywhere….

    I have no idea what path it took to where, but I know that the mesh of availables means it can’t be blocked, only slowed, and only by a little…

  53. Larry Ledwick says:

    In recent years it appears lots of organizations like Judical Watch, the major counter media actors, (Rush, Alex Jones etc.) have lined up someone who runs a crawler that scrapes services like twitter and face book almost in real time. There are paid “clipping services” that do it for political types and corporations. It only has to live on the original web provider a couple minutes and someone has a copy filed away in an archive. Then you also have the way-back project which I am sure does the same thing with the major news services.

    If you watch the news, you are constantly seeing Congressman xyz made a stupid tweet but took it down immediately — here is a copy for your reading pleasure.

    Closely targeted crawlers that just instantly archive likely web news sources, (twitter, drudge, facebook, snapchat etc. etc. can work in seconds or milliseconds of up time for a post).

    Plus you have millions of folks like me that follow key users and if we get a heads up, usually have the post on our screen for 10’s of minutes before it gets deleted or edited. I have seen several items show up on my twitter feed and then go unreachable 10 – 20 minutes later. The video of HRC getting pitched into the van was available for about 30-60 minutes before it got pulled by AP. It takes time for attorneys to call all those services and demand they be pulled down, and that is after the internal decision cycle of the campaign has decided to start suppressing them. https://www.reddit.com/ and the other geek communities are watched 24 hours a day by hundreds-thousands of tech savvy users who propagate stuff at an amazing speed and they do crowd source investigations of anything odd before the major news organizations have assigned a reporter to cover the topic. (ie the bolt being dropped from HRC’s pants leg — it was probably something else but that was the original report).
    I don’t watch Reddit but I have several friends who practically live on it. It is sort of a new tech system of checks and balances, you have all the different interest groups represented on those forum, conservative, liberal, marxist, libertarian, Bernie fans, HRC fans, Obama fans, you name it there are people from every possible interest group constantly trolling those forums (using that term in the fishing sense not the modern bad actor on the web sense)

    We see it right here on this blog, we have a dozen or so active participants and astute observers all looking under rocks all the time with complimentary interests. Between us, each digging here and tossing up the finds for group examination, find stuff I would never stumble on in a hundred years of web surfing by myself, but pull all those threads together and you have a powerful self motivated, and directed research service. Each individual in the group following the best leads that come to mind and often converging quickly on the same or supporting evidence or commentary on a topic.

  54. philjourdan says:

    @Gail – I am a bit surprised you did not use this example:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/26/obama-appointee-threatens-americans-free-speech-after-refugee-sex-attack-on-idaho-girl-the-spread-of-false-information-may-violate-federal-law/

    The spread of false information or inflammatory or threatening statements about the perpetrators or the crime itself reduces public safety and may violate federal law.

    Obama (through his surrogate) was threatening the family and others if they talked about the heinous crime.

  55. Gail Combs says:

    E.M.
    Hubby was on the original ARPA net when it was a couple hundred computers. He was at MIT Lincoln Lab working with seismologists as a computer programer. (We both find PhDs a PITA since they think they know stuff they don’t and won’t back down.)

    I have noticed a new tactic. I am now getting the “This Connection is Untrusted” pop-up on several articles including the Trump Child Care Transcript.
    ………….

    Larry,
    I noticed when I looked at reddit about the vid of Hillary collapsing a comment discussion thread about how nice it was without the CTR (Clinton trolls on reddit maybe???)

    Here is the thread . I am posting it since it backs up the DNC link saying they were paying for social media trolls against Bernie and it is obvious they have been redirected and are still active.

    Nice to know the under 35 crowd ‘gets it’ and it is also nice to have evidence of paid troll behavior.

    Without that video r/politics would be swarming right now with idiots claiming that Hillary’s health is perfect and blaming this on the sexist “Fringe”… f…king hilarious (and frankly, pathetic) how predictable they are here.

    You mean the CTR folk. Notice how /r/Politics Is fun to be on today?

    Because they regrouped yesterday to figure out what to say on social media today. It’s so painfully obvious.

    We know this, just let this one day of peace be enjoyed.

    I notice a lot of regular prominent users are suspiciously absent.

    noticed a lot of the old school Berners and Trumpers are back though, which is refreshing.

    Just like the old days, boys and girls :’)

    Yup I’m actually happy that I can actually discuss things without getting yelled at by correct the record.

    They’re here, they just can’t comment on these threads yet. Check any thread that doesn’t have anything to do with Hillary’s health.

    Where did they go? Money for CTR run out?

    Pretty sure they are staying away from the topic. You’ll see them again tomorrow, most likely.

    They probably aren’t paid to improvise and are awaiting the script they need to adhere to

    Yeah, I’ve literally been having nuanced discussions with people of differing political opinions without having ad hominems and “ists” thrown at me. It’s refreshing as f…k.

    Clinton SuperPac Admits to Paying Internet Trolls – Daily Kos (I got the untrusted pop-up here too.)
    From search page:

    …Clinton SuperPac Admits to Paying Internet Trolls … to spending $1 million to hire fake online Hillary supporters to swarm social media sites….

    KOS has another interesting essay. “Deplorable” was no mistake. And it’s working. (Actually several with that phrase.)

    I think these SJW are so insulated and have spent so much time screaming down and bullying anyone they think has strayed from the ‘one true path’ that they have no idea of the amount of ‘Cold Angry’ that has built up in ‘flyover country.’

  56. Gail Combs says:

    philjourdan,

    I was aware of that story months ago from ConservativeTreeHouse and knew it got buried. I was not aware that the family of the little girl got threatened. — DISGUSTING!

    Breitbart was the original site to ban me leading to my IP address ban so I do not give them the traffic I used to.

    June 21, 2016
    Raped By PC – Five-Year-Old Idaho Girl Raped By Three Iraqi and Sudanese Refugees – Politically Correct Local Government Frozen…

    Here is another really weird story about Pretzellian Prog-Logic – Asheville N.C. School Tells 9-year-old His Like Of “My Little Pony” Is Causing His Own Bullying School tells the boy it is his fault and bans his bringing ‘My Little Pony’ stuff to school. Nothing is done to the bullies.

    (Another boy hung himself because of the bullying over his like of My Little Pony.)

    Rule of Law?? WHAT Rule of Law. The law is only used to protect the Politically Correct and punish the ‘Deplorables’

  57. H.R. says:

    @Gail
    “I think these SJW are so insulated and have spent so much time screaming down and bullying anyone they think has strayed from the ‘one true path’ that they have no idea of the amount of ‘Cold Angry’ that has built up in ‘flyover country.’”

    My thought exactly. I believe you are 100% correct about the SJWs.

    So. we’ll see how my “Deplorable” hat and t-shirt go over. I am betting that I get a LOT more yeas than nays here in flyover country.

    Signed,
    Ino C. Nutting ;o)

  58. E.M.Smith says:

    CTR Correct The Record

    @H.R.:

    I’ve put up a posting with a place where you can order custom T shirts and window logos and such… He’s standing ready to make “Deplorables” T’s for anyone who wants one.

    @Gail:

    Yes, “cold angry” is a good term for it.

    Now I am NASA certified sane, and extraordinarily tolerant. They were trying to find a psych screening method for folks to be sent to space to live in a can together for months on end, and they tested that method on me and 8 others. We “lived in a box” for 3.5 months without issues (military had stuck “the right stuff” guys in a box and had fights and ‘get me outta here!’ events).

    So when I am getting P.O.d at the crap, it’s gotten pretty darned bad. Obama has done so much back room lying manipulative crap, I’m having a hard time waiting out the rest of his term. Yeah, that bad. Gritted teeth slow burn angry. I wish him well, but can’t wait to see the backside of him walking away down a golf course in retirement.

    Hillary is worse.

    So the SJW types and the CTR types are just heaping fuel on a smoldering resentment. Trump tapped into that, and now there is an ‘outlet’ for it. “Yes, he offends everything you stand for over on the Far Left. That is why I’m supporting him.” hasn’t quite made it into their tiny little isolated world yet…

  59. cdquarles says:

    Correct the Record? You mean leftists? ROFL. They really do seem to have used both Animal Farm and 1984 as instruction manuals. God Help the USA.

  60. omanuel says:

    Yes, they were blind to an ancient spiritual fact: TRUTH IS VICTORIOUS, NEVER UNTRUTH

  61. E.M.Smith says:

    @CDQuarles:

    Yup. The kind of broken mind it takes to accept that kind of “new speak” just isn’t mine…

    @Gail

    “I have noticed a new tactic. I am now getting the “This Connection is Untrusted” pop-up on several articles including the Trump Child Care Transcript.”

    This can be either of two things. One completely innocent. The other a huge problem. There is also a third case that is a minor annoyance and quite obvious.

    Essentially, that is the generic message for “failed to make a valid encrypted connection as their cert or their encryption handshake or something else failed”.

    Unless you are on a TLA watch list, it is unlikely to be the huge problem one. The Huge Problem one is when an Agency is doing a Man In The Middle attack to capture your traffic and wants you to accept THEIR cert as valid so they do the encryption (and can thus decrypt and examine) before they send it on to the target site. Most Agencies are better than that, so it is highly unlikely you would see this. Some bogus scam sites use this too (so if you open a link to, as a fake example, http://www.wellsfago.com instead of http://www.wellsfargo.com, then someone at the bogus domain could try a MTM attack to capture your passwords for the real site).

    The petty annoyance is when you connect via a public WiFi and they jigger the DNS to send you to their “click to accept” page instead of your requested site. Quite properly your browser complains that the requested site cert (security authentication certificate) doesn’t match the one for the web page being displayed. So you have to click the “ok this time” (or whatever) button to get to the nagging ‘accept terms’ radio button to get to the real internet. It is a kind of poorly done “man in the middle” ‘attack’ for the purpose of getting you to release them from liability. Starbucks does this all the time.

    Almost 100% of the time, it is because there is a disconnect between the security handshake that your browser enforces and the security handshake that the web site enforces. This came up because a security flaw was found in the older encryption methods that allowed a fairly sophisticated attack, but a vulnerability all the same. New protocols were put in place, but many old sites still used old protocols, and many browsers still allowed old protocols (and vulnerability).

    Starting about a year ago the “push” was made to obsolete the weaker protocols. Web sites began to enforce the use of the fixed protocols.
    http://www.scmagazine.com/freak-vulnerability-can-be-exploited-to-cause-weak-encryption/article/401691/
    https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA14-290A

    Now as each web site “makes the cut over”, some percentage of their users who are using older browsers without the newer protocol get that “untrusted site” message. Similarly, if you use a browser that doesn’t support the old protocol and hit a web site that doesn’t support the new yet, you get the same message.

    This “lack of backwards compatibility” message will continue (in diminishing degree) until 100% of all web sites and browsers only use the newer protocol.

    I’ve been involved with “working this issue” for about 3 years now. It is likely to continue for another 3… getting 100% of anybody to do something new and technical is a PITA and slow process… (Folks debated this particular pain for about a year before deciding there was enough critical mass of the newer browsers to start cutting off the old protocols… but try telling, for example, a ticket selling site that they will “only” lose 20% of their customers if they mandate a newer browser and that they will come back in a year or three… so it drags out…)

  62. Larry Ledwick says:

    Gail just out of curiosity could you post a link for a couple of those pages that give you that warning so we could see if it is just your browser that is complaining?

  63. Larry Ledwick says:

    A look at the race in Colorado – note that Gary Johnson might act as a spoiler stealing votes that would normally go to HRC.

    http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/13/donald-trump-momentum-colorado-polls-narrow/

  64. Gail Combs says:

    Larry, EM
    I think it is my browser. A very old version of Firefox. We have not up graded because we are going to replace the computer —- SOOOOoooon — I really hope soon. (The new roof sucked down the excess cash.)

    And we use Ubuntu not Windows.

  65. E.M.Smith says:

    @Gail:

    You can add / update browsers in Ubuntu for free… just sayin’… Try adding, oh, Opera and see what you think of it…

    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OperaBrowser

    That way you don’t have to disturb what already works while you play with something else.

    FWIW, I usually install 3 or 4 browsers. Sometimes one works when the other “has issues” due to poorly programmed web sites or ‘whatever’. Fire Fox ( Sea Monkey, Ice Ape, …), Opera, Chrome / Chromium, and sometimes Midori .

    Yes, that’s in addition to the ones on my disposable image chips and USB drives and SD cards and CD / DVD live systems and… Variety, it’s nice ;-)

    (it also really screws up attempts to track or profile you when you run from 4 browsers x 5 OSs x 10 images x 3 hardware types x …

  66. Gail Combs says:

    E.M. I already have Opera. (Hubby has Chrome) The big problem is this computer is so old it really can not support Opera without crashing every other day. That is why I switched back to Firefox. I actually prefer Opera… except for the crashing.

    Hubby was updating this machine until it started the crashing with increasing freq. so now we are just saving up for a new computer but first the new roof, two very sick horses (both died) new front ends on both trucks…..

  67. E.M.Smith says:

    OK, you have multiple browsers already (even if it crashes ‘eventually’). That means you can hit the same web page with both and see if one has the issue and the other doesn’t. That lets you test the thesis.

    Per the computer: Crashing a lot ought not be a function of age per se. Usually it is a hard disk going bad or sometimes a failed part on the board (fail-ing part…) Often it is just crap accumulated in the software and / or malware… Very occasionally a memory cell on the fritz.

    Try making a Knoppix or similar CD / DVD and doing a live boot from it. If it sits nice and stable for days, your hardware is probably not the problem… Oh, and you get a nice browsing system that evaporates when shutdown so you can do private and secure browsing… Many of these, like SystemRescueCD, have a memory tester on the CD too so you can check the memory and CPU by running it….

    http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/SystemRescueCd_Homepage

    Very highly worth having for system recovery and testing. Much easier to make when the system still runs… Easy to make and use, too.

  68. Gail Combs says:

    E.M.
    Don’t give Hubby ideas! I want a computer with enough muscle to support video. A lot of the problem is the pop-ups and automatic video start.

    Sometimes when I close Firefox there are several pop-ups hidden behind the open window I was completely unaware of. Hubby did do something that seems to have stopped that but he has only killed about 1/2 of the autoplay vids.

    Now a days everyone assumes your computer has plenty of memory for videos and pictures. Mine does not.

  69. Larry Ledwick says:

    A bit of suspect donations by a senior official before getting appointed to be head of an agency.
    http://counterjihad.com/pay-play-dhs-secretary-jeh-johnson-get-five-hundred-grand-donate-dnc

  70. p.g.sharrow says:

    @Gail, As one that plugs up my old computer with comments, links and pictures galore. ;-) you should talk! My old XP Dell would come to a stop at your opinion and information dumps!

    Good thing my son and grandson set me up with this Dell Studio with 2 gigs of memory. 8-) it just zips through blog pages. So bring your stuff on….pg

  71. E.M.Smith says:

    I find this funny!

    Here we have P.G. and Gail going on about how they need high end muscle machines… and I’m running on a $35 Raspberry Pi Model 3 by choice!

    Golly! ;-)

  72. Larry Ledwick says:

    And now we have indications that the Clinton empire is closely associated with money laundering?
    Big political donations would be a good way to rapidly steam clean dirty money.

    http://www.wnd.com/2016/09/hsbc-case-blows-lid-on-clintons-offshore-empire/

  73. p.g.sharrow says:

    @EMSmith; Your “little” Pi-3 beer can computer is the equivelant of my BIG BOX dell and you are running a clean OS rather then this Micro Slop Hog OS in my boxes. ;-(
    At least my computer lab is nearly set up so I can follow with your lead in converting to the new way. Next I need to get a Model-3 and a box of micro SD chips to fit. Our designated computer guy just died so now I will have to assume his job managing the satellite connection, with routers.
    My lady just got the DIRECT account transfered to us today. So one more thing to get up to speed on…pg

  74. Gail Combs says:

    At least pg has some computer chops. {:>D I have never taken a computer course in my life and have learned everything on the fly.

    If Hubby dies, I will have to grovel to the neighbors teenage computer types. BTDT when he had Rocky Mtn Spoted Fever and was out of it for about a year.

  75. Larry Ledwick says:

    Interesting note on the myopic progressive media on Trump
    http://freebeacon.com/politics/big-eddie-turns-on-obama/

  76. Oliver K. Manuel says:

    Comment # 58. Explains why the world hangs in a balance today:
    http://joannenova.com.au/2016/09/malcolm-roberts-a-polished-punchy-senate-speech/

  77. Larry Ledwick says:

    Trump just trolled the media and suckered them into covering military endorsements of him for president. They can see that they are getting played by him but blind to it (or complicit) when they get played by Obama/HRC.

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/16/media-outraged-after-trump-tricks-them-to-cover-endorsements-from-military-heroes/

  78. Larry Ledwick says:

    Meanwhile they are finally noticing that although the DNC and Obama are screaming about Russian interference in our electoral process Obama did exactly the same thing to Israel.

    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/congress-investigating-obama-admin-funded-campaign-unseat-israeli-pm/

  79. Larry Ledwick says:

    How to give two different impressions of the same event with photography.
    Both pictures same event, Trump at Colorado springs tonight.

    Appeared on twitter 18 minutes ago.

    Appeared on twitter 8 minutes ago

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