W.O.O.D. – 6 July 2020


This is another of the W.O.O.D. series of semi-regular
Weekly Occasional Open Discussions.
(i.e. if I forget and skip one, no big)

Immediate prior one here:

and remains open for threads running there (at least until the ‘several month’ auto-close of comments on stale threads).

Canonical list of old ones here:

For just general FYI notices, use to “tips” pages. All the old ones remain for historical reference:
Tips Pages

What’s Going On?

First up, a small apology. I’ve been slow about doing these posts, and worse on the “tips” pages. The whole political climate and Chinese Wuhan Covid thing has been somewhat depressing and motivation killing. I’d really rather be doing “tech stuff” or camping or doing R&D on how the climate works. But no. The Dimocrats have decided we must ALL be fixated on those two topics. Amazing what a few hundred $Million of Soros Bribe Money can buy, isn’t it? (Just my opinion…)

Chinese Wuhan Covid

This has been beat to death in a bunch of postings. Only thing to add is that there’s a new “study” that finds HCQ is very effective IF GIVEN EARLY (i.e. not in stupid last ditch before dying once the damage is done “make Giliad happy” quasi-studies…) I’d like to /sarc; tag that, but I don’t see how that would be honest…

It has its own set of threads to follow in its own category: Covid-19.

The Dimocrats have now seized on this as a cudgel to beat Trump with to try to stop his rallies and campaigning. It won’t work. It just makes them look like scared little children (when they are not looking like lying hypocrites as they say riots, oh, pardon, “Protests” with fire bombs, looting, and shooting; they supposedly do NOT increase the risk of the Chinese Virus. Supposedly as it is able to distinguish Communist and Socialist rioters from Conservative voters…)


China has really put their foot in it with Hong Kong & India. They have now caused The United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, India, the USA and likely a few others to to decide China is not their friend and they need to band together to fix things. Russia is to be in the same pot soon too, as Xi has made “me want it back” noises about wanting Vladivostok.


“On Chinese maps from the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368), Vladivostok is called Yongmingcheng (永明城 [Yǒngmíngchéng], “city of eternal light”)”

So, you know, it’s “only” been 600 years ago, so of course it must be just fine for China to take it… Putin is not amused.

So is there anyone China has NOT pissed off?

At least Australia, UK, Taiwan, and the USA have passed ore are passing laws to let the Hong Kongers emigrate with ease. Taking their skill and markets with them. The UK is letting the 6 million (out of 7.5 million) who have the special BNO British National Overseas Passport (and their families) move in. Everyone else is trying to figure out how to get a piece of the action too.

In the mean time, the USA has moved to remove the special access to tech, goods, and money that Hong Kong enjoyed. Any business with a brain will be looking to get the hell out while they can.

BTW, the new Hong Kong Security Law claims GLOBAL reach and ANYONE who criticizes the Chinese Communist Party or their actions or suggests Taiwan ought to be free (or that the UN Ruling that Taibet was an illegal occupation is valid, and China needs to get out) and anything else that causes Xi or his minions upset can be hauled off to China and tossed in a dungeon (or just organ harvested on arrival). There’s some 59? nations with extradition treaties with China, including Russia and Venezuela, so be careful where you go on a visit. I see France, Italy, Mexico, Peru, Brazil, Philippines, Turkey and South Korea on that list too. Australia, Canada and a few others have already revoked their extradition agreements.

Oh, and the penalty for violating the “don’t suggest China is being bad” law is death. Just sayin’… Until France, Italy, Brazil, etc. cancel those extradition treaties with China, you might not want to visit them if you have EVER said anything bad about China. (Did I mention is is RETROACTIVE to all prior time too?)

While I don’t expect anyone would be looking to bag me on the streets of Paris, it is entirely “legal” for China to do that now, per their laws and treaties.


Coming along nicely. Last date to extend is past, so it is December this year no way out of it. Biggest risk is someone signs stupid stuff with the EU (who continue to demand UK Brexit In Name Only with ongoing £Billions to be paid to the EU, the UK Military to be under EU rule, and UK adopt all EU laws and regulations (and, BTW, not have their own waters to fish as the French will be hoovering them empty). The current government seems to be holding to the nice line that no agrement is just dandy and is NOT willing to sign crap deals, so there’s hope. But 5 more months of bickering and backbiting to go until the UK is fully free.

Other Stuff

Turkey and Egypt are making nasty noises at each other over Libya. Almost absent from US News. This has the potential to become a hot war. As a NATO member, Turkey theoretically can pull the EU and USA into it too. Turkey is also making claims on Greek waters in the Mediterranean sea. This has the potential to become a regional war with Turkey in the thick of it.

The USA and Philippines are doing the Make Nice again. The USA is getting a nice airport to work from and port rights. We’ve also got 3 aircraft carrier groups around China. Possibly a move to kick them out of the South China Sea soon? China sunk some Philippines boats and has intimidated may others in the area. They are also doing regular jet fighter flights into Taiwan air space. It looks to me like China is trying to get a war started so that they can mask their looming food crisis.

China has a new H1N1 swine flu (coming soon to a country near you) along with massive flooding in the central farming areas and frost damage in the north. They have shut off buying food from several external sources (likely to conserve cash as they have a 3 month hole in export earnings and what with fake gold bars in the $Billions found in the collateral of Kingold (a major Chinese company) their credit is likely not so good lately either.

Watch that space for future stresses on China. There’s some talk of China breaking up into the 9 major provinces as independent parts. No idea of that’s “silly talk” or a real possible. But a hungry army is no friend of Xi’s.

BTW, If you have not seen Trump’s speech at Mt. Rushmore, ti’s a gem. He “gets it” about Antifa, BLM Marxists, The Culture War, the whole deal. I’d been worried his lack of action was from ignorance. Now I know it is strategic staying out of the Color Revolution trap. The Marxist Media is of course calling it “divisive” and “dark” and other evil things. It isn’t. It is uplifting and comforting to know he’s clued in to the game.

Then, it’s clear that the American Spirit of Rebellion is still alive and well. It is a $50,000 fine to fire off fireworks in Los Angeles and our near-Marxist Fascist leaning Democrat Governor and Mayors all said The 4th Of July is CANCELLED and everyone needs to hide in their houses and DO NOTHING. Well, no.

See this video (skip to the middle for the full effect if impatient). This is the sky over Los Angeles. Thousands, perhaps millions, of individuals giving a big middle finger to Government Overreach and lighting up the sky like it’s the 4th of July… ’cause it is! Makes a fella proud to be a deplorable who tells the “powers that be” to go stuff it.

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About E.M.Smith

A technical managerial sort interested in things from Stonehenge to computer science. My present "hot buttons' are the mythology of Climate Change and ancient metrology; but things change...
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276 Responses to W.O.O.D. – 6 July 2020

  1. jim2 says:

    This is more related to “getting it” about the left than covid. One nice side-effect of covid is that kids have had to do school from home. As a result, parents have seen the Marxist propaganda promulgated in the schools. Apparently it has been an eye-opening experience. There was a parent of Fox news this morning. She said even baby books now feature Marxist concepts. She said she was thrilled to hear Trump take a stand against it. Also, she said it is important for parents to not only talk to their children about the American Dream, but to show patriotism as an example to the kids.

    Personally, I think it was better for the kids when women stayed home to raise them. Mom can better keep an eye on what’s being fed the kids if she’s home and engaged in child-rearing. I think that is the most important job in the land. We see what happens when we hand over that job to the nanny state.

  2. Bloke in Japan says:

    I’m largely supportive of Trump, but his assertion that the “Plucky Americans” defeated “The most powerful nation on Earth” is total bollocks. In 1812, that was France, whose empire controlled the whole of western and central Europe. Britain was totally focussed on the existential threat of French invasion.

    Nelson was able to defeat the French and Dutch navies at Trafalgar and remove that threat, It took Wellesley (the Duke of Wellington to you) another 3 years to expel the French from Spain and defeat Napoleon (with the essential help of our Hessian and Prussian cousins) at Waterloo in 1815. The loss minor colonies in America was a diversion and a small price to pay.

  3. p.g.sharrow says:

    If you are bored try watching this Utube about active sculptures. Kind of cool wooden clock work machines.

  4. Nancy & John Hultquist says:

    I was thinking of the “buy-not-China” idea this week because I needed to do minor patches on 2 pairs of boots. These were bought at Big-5 store in Yakima. Name is “Magnum” – made in China. There is a seam that tears on the outside wide spot. Another pair is sold as “Itasca” – associated with the lake of Mississippi fame. Also made in China, but does not have a seam at that point.
    All could be made in the same factory for all I know.
    My most expensive boot, Timberland is also made in China.
    Sorel boots started in Kitchener, Ont., but the brand is now by Columbia Sportswear out of Portland OR. I’ll guess all their modern stuff is China sourced.

    White’s Boots are still made in Spokane and have an unbeatable reputation, and a price to match. ~$350 and up. Serious outdoors types buy them.

    For the duration, I will fix and repair the boots I have.
    I have been doing trail work for years and consider boots one of the tools – scrapers, kicking rocks and stumps, wading in wet and muck, and so on. Very hard on boots. Less of that now, so may get by without a new pair for years.

  5. philjourdan says:

    When the whole WuFlu story started, I predicted that China’s duplicity was going to work against it in the long term. Short term, they gained from the closing of all Western Economies. But the lessons learned would be not to trust them any longer. As more countries declare independence from China, China is going to learn why countries are honest with one another. China can make all the stuff they want. But if no one is going to buy it, they are going to have a lot of stuff in land fills.

  6. Serioso says:

    I take it that the multiple lies Trump professed in his Mt. Rushmore speech about Covid-19 do not trouble you at all.It is apparent that you only hear what you want to hear. Shameful!

  7. E.M.Smith says:

    I see Serioso is back on the insult kick.

    Trump is a showman and salesman. Calling that “lies” is, itself, a lie. Yes, to say we defeated the British Empire is sellers puff (and prefectly normal). Yet we DID defeat them in North America (while they were up to their axels in a fight with bigger adversaries. )

    As for other “lies”, I didn’t detect any beyond the usual kind of Ra Ra Go {name of country} all national leaders do on their birthdays. Oh, and telling the Truth that is counter to the Narrative and lies of {NYT, CNN, MSNBC, etc.} is not a lie; though frequent readers of those kinds of sources claim it is.

  8. cdquarles says:

    For you, Serioso: https://uncoverdc.com/2020/07/06/primer-on-the-democrat-party-and-the-media/.

    I can back this up with my own research, which I started in the early 70s. It would not surprise me that those old papers and records can’t be found, and I wish I could be sarcastic about that.

  9. Another Ian says:

    Jo Nova this morning

    “Stop making sense. Forget science and become emotional”


  10. H.R. says:

    If you don’t read the New York Times, you are uninformed. If you do read the New York Times, you are misinformed.

    I’m not picking on the New York Times. I’m having trouble thinking of any other newspaper where that generalized observation by Samuel Clemens of all newspapers doesn’t hold true. At the moment, I got nuttin’.

    Newspapers now see their job as shaping public opinion rather than reporting on events and letting readers form their own opinions. Who, what, when, where, and how many; where did those fundamentals go?

    I’m thinking the last unbiased report was the Lascaux cave paintings, and even then I suspect a few of those were exaggerations. It’s been all down hill since then.

    I’d sooner trust a fisherman’s report of his last outing over most newspaper reports. Operation Mockingbird, anyone?

  11. Another Ian says:

    Re H.R. says:
    6 July 2020 at 9:42 pm

    “Chris Berg: Multi-sided market collapse in the newspaper industry”


  12. E.M.Smith says:


    That’s quite an interesting history. I now know why I expected news in the first place. Formative years pre 1960 ish during the brief time they had news…

  13. jim2 says:

    I think the BLM people should collect reparations from the African tribes that sold them into slavery. Just sayin’.

  14. philjourdan says:

    @CD – very informative! I knew the general history of the creation of the slave party, but that provided more depth.

    And now the slave party is celebrating the death of an 8 year old black girl, because her mother dared to disobey an unlawful detainment order (read – slavery order).

    Yep, the party of Sorioso is still the party of racism, bigotry and slavery. To this very day.

  15. beththeserf says:

    Thx CD – the article sets out the history so well. Will spread it around. Context’s the thing!

  16. E.M.Smith says:

    The article linked by Another Ian is also very good, from a more first person emotional attitude POV.

  17. ossqss says:

    Watching the below. Quite interesting. Ya gotta have Netflix.


  18. cdquarles says:

    Blush. Thanks.
    I’ve said this before. What started me on this journey was listening to my grandparents talk and observing how they lived. It raised a question about Democrats in my mind, so I started researching it. (I still have my first library card from 1973.) Later, when my uncle received his honorary Doctorate (Divinity and he graduated first from Vanderbilt U. Yeah, the school that a certain TN pol didn’t.) at Emory and Henry near Bristol TN/VA, I was there. The old buildings/museums fascinated me. Later, I got to visit Roanoke and visit the Breckenridge museum there. The rest, as they say, is history. So I will not vote for a Democrat unless I know them well, and even then, not for a national office if I can help it. The Party of Slavery and Death, founded in the Counter-revolution of the 1820s. Oh, I don’t forget the Great Betrayer, either; though I will give him some benefit of the doubt and put more blame on John C. “Natural Slave-holding and Land-owning Aristocracy” Calhoun.

  19. agimarc says:

    Another Ian says……

    “Stop making sense. Forget science and become emotional”

    In a way, she is echoing Scott Adams, who views the world thru a persuasion lens. In this world, facts are meaningless and persuasion is everything. This is a skill stack that everyone on Our Side needs to be conversant in and able to use.

    Another observation is that we’ve labored mightily to build a world where decisions are arrived at via reasoned, rational analysis of data. The system is broken because the data is crap. And if the data we are basing our conclusions on is garbage, the system to get from input to output becomes at best irrelevant, at worst horribly counterproductive. Cheers –

  20. philjourdan says:

    Holy SHIT! You cannot make this stuff up! NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE THIS FICTION

    Except it is fact. The left is really out to kill the first amendment. Every part of it. We lost the 2nd, we lost the other 9 as well.

  21. Another Ian says:

    I guess this is what you get when you proclaim that “the budget will balance itself”

    “We decided to take on that debt to prevent Canadians from having to do it”


  22. Another Ian says:

    “British court rules against Christopher Steele, orders damages paid to businessmen named in dossier.”


  23. ossqss says:

    Oldie, but goodie >

  24. ossqss says:

    Just remember who’s administration crushed the ” TEA” party movement with the IRS not approving non-profit status. Yep, a community organizer.

  25. ossqss says:

    One for the ditch :-)

  26. jim2 says:

    Trump has hoodwinked the liberal press again. They are blaring headlines far and wide that Trump wants schools opened this fall and will withhold funding if they don’t open. The defunding will never happen, but when a bunch of disgruntled parents get mad because the school isn’t opened, they won’t be blaming Trump!

  27. E.M.Smith says:

    Why haven’t the folks fired for Wrong Think sued for wrongful termination? Especially when it was a spouse or child that said the forbidden thought?

  28. Another Ian says:

    That via an SDA comment

  29. H.R. says:

    @jim2 re schools:

    President Trump has said, and his Press Secretary repeated it several times, that he will increase – not decrease, but increase – school funding.

    He’ll withhold federal funding from closed schools. Why give money to a school that is closed? They don’t need it.

    President Trump plans to give or tie the regular and increased funds to the kids, not the schools. This is an end run around public schools, which are spending more time on paperwork and indoctrination than education.

    With the money tied to the kids, the kids [their parents, really] can vote with their feet and the money will follow the kid to the school they think is best.

    And that’s how you get school choice.

    Meanwhile, Orange Man Bad and Abuses His Power to Punish Schools he doesn’t like and force them to do what he wants. Fake Noose, of course.

  30. H.R. says:

    Oh, parents are going to be asking themselves the same thing. Why are we paying all this money for closed schools?

    I don’t think any emergency school levies to make up federal funding shortfalls at closed schools are going to go over very well right about now. You’d be hard put to get a “Yes” vote on any school levy at this point.

    “You’re asking me to pay more and I’m getting nothing for what I’m already paying for? I don’t think so.”

  31. jim2 says:

    I haven’t seen anything in the news about the SCOTUS ruling for the Oklahoma case. It seems this would be bigger news than the Trump-related rulings.

    The real pisser about the ruling RE Trump is that the case was initiated on questionable grounds: the Stormy Daniels “hush money” payment. If it was done, it wasn’t with campaign money. So, what was the basis for the case?

    A prosecutor should not use other improper considerations, such as partisan or political or personal considerations, in exercising prosecutorial discretion.




  32. E.M.Smith says:

    I’m surprised nobody commented on Oklahoma.

    As of now, about 1700 State inmates are going to use the ruling to be released from prison, tribes across the nation are looking at their treaties for ways to use this precident, Tulsa among other cities and towns are now under tribsl rule (laws, taxes, etc.) And title to land sold under color of Stste authority is clouded at best. Everything from car registration (tribes do their own plates that are different) to water rights to traffic tickets (and retroactively… ) is up in the air.

    Want to sell your house? Good luck with that. Call the police? Why when they have no jurisdiction. All the State works and workers (and tax base) in 1/2 the State are now ended. Plus who knows what I’ve not thought of. Sales taxes are voided (retro recovery?) All prior State crimes in the area were fraudulently prosecuted under color of authority so will want reparations and an expunged record. Millions of legal processes might be started. Was a mortgage issued under State law valid? Was the title valid? Is your City Charter now void so your city no longer is a legal entity?

    Much of this will depend on the actions of the tribal ruling bodies. They might choose to allow cities to continue under their authority. Or not. Then how does that rule get embodied in tribal law to reconstitute the city legally? Does that erase prior city actions (like traffic fines under color of authority that is now invalid)…

    Just headed for a big mess.

  33. p.g.sharrow says:

    This Oklahoma thing is the camel nose into the tent! Once again the Roberts Court has turned things upside down with no Idea on the eventual ramifications of their decisions. Right now the Tribe is making “nice” sounds while they digest the possibilities. The Lawyers for all tribes are are digging into their tribal histories of dealing with the federal government.

  34. jim2 says:

    I wonder how many blue states have unresolved issues with Indian lands.
    This could be interesting for the Dimowiits!

  35. E.M.Smith says:

    I once read that California was one of very few States with clear land titles. Why? Spanish land grants. Spain simply conquered the Indians and the King derived his authority from the devine right of kings. So Title goes from God, to King to land grant documents to sales of portions. There was at least one case decided with reference to original source being God, settling title.

    Any Indian claims were expunged by Spain, so take it up with them.

    In other places, the process of land title change had many more variations and clouds.

    California also uses Title Insurance, so if the title is invalid, it is the Title Company who pays…

  36. E.M.Smith says:

    Texas looks clear. Spanish land grants, Mexican recognition of them, Republic of Texas recognition, etc. So one would need to overturn 3 nations rulings and the Spanish invasion / conquering rights, devine right of kings.

  37. rhoda klapp says:

    I’m slightly familiar with that part of OK, having had a customer in Tulsa and driving up from Dallas through all the tribal areas and even on the Indian tollway. I can’t help feeling there are a lot of Oklahomans who have property there and I wouldn’t care to be the guy who knocks on the door with a piece of paper saying it’s not theirs, if that’s the upshot of this weird ruling. (I didn’t know the Supreme court was allowed to give away parts of the USA..)

  38. jim2 says:

    It seems that there is oversight and balances between Leg and Admin, but nothing balances the courts. They just run amok.

  39. E.M.Smith says:

    Near as I can tell, it looks like a re-interpretation of the Dawes Act. That let the President hand over fixed acerage to individual indians and then sell off the “surplus” land on the reservations. BUT it did not specifically call out the ending of the reservation.

    So, my GUESS is that the sale of land will be upheld along with some kind of title, but that tribal law will now extend to all former bounds of original reservations pre-Dawes. As will any taxing authority. Alternatively, congress could pass a new law “clarifying” the original intent to terminate the reservations and nullify the ruling.


    Note the phrasing of “end tribal control of reservations”, but not “end reservations”.

    In a well-meaning but ultimately flawed attempt to assimilate Native Americans, President Grover Cleveland signs an act to end tribal control of reservations and divide their land into individual holdings.

    Named for its chief author, Senator Henry Laurens Dawes from Massachusetts, the Dawes Severalty Act reversed the long-standing American policy of allowing Indian tribes to maintain their traditional practice of communal use and control of their lands. Instead, the Dawes Act gave the president the power to divide Indian reservations into individual, privately owned plots. The act dictated that men with families would receive 160 acres, single adult men were given 80 acres, and boys received 40 acres. Women received no land.

    The most important motivation for the Dawes Act was Anglo-American hunger for Indian lands. The act provided that after the government had doled out land allotments to the Indians, the sizeable remainder of the reservation properties would be opened for sale to whites. Consequently, Indians eventually lost 86 million acres of land, or 62 percent of their total pre-1887 holdings

    More digging required, but that’s what I’ve got so far.

    134,375 square miles, or a block 366.6 miles on a side. The whole USA is 3,746,792 square miles, so about 3.6 % of the USA about to be added to lands under Indian rule.

  40. cdquarles says:

    Treaties are binding under the US Constitution, but cannot override it. Thus the confusion/wailing/gnashing of teeth.

  41. cdquarles says:

    In another note, a mask paper: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342. Downside? Very small numbers. Upside? They seem to have measured actual viral loads, within limits. Not determined if the log is base 2 or 10, but I will presume base 10 since the usual usage for base e is ln, in the USA unless the log is specified like log10 or log2 or natural log (log base e).

  42. Power Grab says:

    I didn’t say anything about the Oklahoma decision here, but I said something to relatives. They were unaware that it had happened.

    One of my siblings used to tell people our family lived in the “Tulsa viewing area”. That changed when I left for college, though.

    I don’t own any property. None of my immediate relatives own property in the eastern part of the state (not now, anyway). One immediate relative and one retired in-law live in the “Tulsa viewing area” now but are not land owners.

    Most of my deceased relatives were cremated, and then buried not many years ago in the western part of the state.

    This event seems to me to be part of a concerted (though secretive) effort to expunge the memory of the accomplishments and presence of melanin-challenged people from this land.

    I can’t prove my Native American ancestry because one crucial ancestor chose not to be added to the Dawes Rolls. I understand that that ancestor’s sibling(s) were added to the Dawes Rolls, and I should be able to trace it that way. But there have been moves recently on the part of some tribes to reject people who applied to be recognized as descendants of those tribes. I’m thinking it has to do with their thinking they don’t want to share tribal income with a bunch more people.

  43. cdquarles says:

    Update on that mask paper I linked above. It was withdrawn.

  44. philjourdan says:

    @p.g. – Roberts was in the minority on the Oklahoma ruling. I happen to agree with it. The court gave an easy out – Congress needs to vote to rescind the treaty. It is the fault of congress for not addressing the issue before.

  45. philjourdan says:

    Sen Warner is as dirty as pig pen!


    TIme to clean house (senate) and get rid of this clueless idiot (not smart enough to cover his tracks).

  46. philjourdan says:

    @ANother Ian – sorry, just read your post. Did not mean to duplicate yours

  47. Another Ian says:


    We’ll call it emphasis

  48. Another Ian says:

    Re Power Grab says:
    10 July 2020 at 6:22 pm

    Not Oklahoma but in case you haven’t seen this

    “Will Whoever Stole The Black Hills Please Return Them?”


  49. ossqss says:

    To purge the whatever. I am in…..

  50. billinoz says:

    I see that the USA also has legal wise wizards !

    Good luck dealing with the can of worms they have opened.

    Under the USA constitution are the states sovereign or are they just subsidiary parts of the USA which is the sovereign nation ?

  51. rhoda klapp says:

    “Under the USA constitution are the states sovereign or are they just subsidiary parts of the USA which is the sovereign nation ?”

    ell, Bill, they fought a civil war over that and didn’t really reach a definitive conclusion but it looks like the USA is the sovereign nation de facto.

  52. A C Osborn says:

    cdquarles says: 10 July 2020 at 6:15 pm
    Face Masks study.

    Did you read the comments?

  53. billinoz says:

    @Rhoda, But as far as legal wise wizzards are concerned, the civil war never happened.

  54. E.M.Smith says:

    The individual States are sovereign except where powers are deligated to the Federal government by the Constitution, the Feds bribe them into submission, the Feds blackmail them into submission by withholding traditional bribe money, or the Constitution is simply ignored….

  55. billinoz says:

    So has the state of Oklahoma delegated the power to issue ‘land titles’ to USA the Federal government ?

  56. H.R. says:

    I bought some face masks yesterday..

    I nipped into a Michael’s [hobby & craft chain of stores] looking for some brass rod; no luck.

    But I did find some Lone Ranger masks. I bought a pack of 3 for $1.99. The mayor of the Big City to the south of our semi-rural area just made face masks mandatory.

    So I’m ready if I have to go into town for some reason, eh?

    Later today, I’ll read the order and see what the specs are for face masks, if there are any at all. If not, I’m good to go with my Lone Ranger mask.
    I’ve been observing mask wearers and no-one is doing it right, including me. I’m just slapping something on my face for show when it’s required.

    15-20% wear them under their nose so they can breathe (count me in that bunch).

    About 30% wear the throwaway paper surgical/exam masks, they have gaps all over the place, and I think most people are reusing them.

    5% or so are wearing bandannas or the thin stretchy pullup/pull down face protectors that hunters and fishermen wear (very breathable!). Totally ineffective but handy and comfortable.

    The rest are wear wearing homemade or store-bought cloth masks of insufficient weave and layers to stop viruses. I’d wager that 0% of those masks are changed out and washed once or twice per day, so they are just wearing virus traps on their face. Most of the cloth masks appear to have never been washed at all!

    And… I doubt that anyone is following proper procedure when putting on or removing face masks. I’m not seeing any gloves, which I think are more important than the masks.

    All in all, the masks people are wearing and the way they are wearing them add up to a bunch of sneeze guards. We’d have the same effectiveness if people would just start carrying handkerchiefs and have them ready for when a sneeze or cough is coming on. And if they are sick, stay home. That’s highly effective in stopping the spread of viruses.

    My Lone Ranger mask and a handkerchief is just as good as anything I’m seeing when I’m out and about.
    Has anyone else been observing mask wearers? Are you seeing much the same as what I’m seeing?

  57. E.M.Smith says:

    Land title in the USA is a complicated mess. Some reach back through a few countries and centuries of history. Others start with a current claim.

    For example, you can file a mineral claim on Federal Land and eventually gain title to it as long as you work the claim. In other cases the claim is based on the first conquering European nation. Spain for California, Texas, Florida, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah (and maybe more). Alaska bought from Russia. Louisiana Purchase from France (midwest from Iowa to Oklahoma and Louisiana to Montana.

    In the case of the Spanish land grants, some of these passed through Mexico after their revolution (and occupation by France too). Then California had Sir Francus Drake claim it for England, northern California was Russian for a while, Argentina briefly claimed it, and a few more minor flag changes.

    So, to determine title often involves a long dig through old records in 3 or 4 languages going back hundreds of years (a “title search”).

    This, then, gets filtered through various layers of laws and treaties that might have colored the title. In Oklahoma, this was a treaty between the USA and the Muskogee Creek Nation granting them a “permanent reservation” that the Dawes Act failed to explicitly end.

    Normally title is recorded with the County (tax assessor office) under State authority. Except when it is Federal Land or an Indian Reservation (that is legally its own sovereign, nominally. A polite fiction retained so that the “treaties” with them have legal force.)

    So normally title is a State via County affair. But Federal and Indian lands are outside that system. There are legal disputes over title from various purchases not including Indian agreement (so Russia sold us Alaska, but did they really conquer it from the natives?) And from Treaties being ignored as reservation lands were just taken without the nicety of a new treaty (Oklahoma for example). As these nominally fall under international processes, they are disputed at the Federal level.

    Basically, had there been no treaty establishing the “permanent reservation” then the purchase from France would clarify title as US nation, Oklahoma State, county recorded titles. BUT, given a Federal Treaty declared it a “permanent reservation” it is legally not part of the USA but is the land of the Creek Nation. (Since we bought it from France and traded it to the indians for their ancestral lands back east -Georgia, Carolinas, etc. and that trade treaty clarifies title in those States. Supposedly.)

    That the “trade” was done at the point of a gun then the Trail Of Tears forced march killed many walking a thousand miles ill prepared is also a point of some contention. Then the idea that a Nation must go to the USA courts for adjudication gives a bit of the lie to the treaty being with a sovereign nation. Ditto the powers of the Bureau Of Indian Affairs.

    Now stir all that together, season heavily with hoards of lawyers, language drift over centuries, sprinkle on the lack of lawyers skilled in 1700’s Spanish Law (and units of measure…), and light a PC Virtue Signal Fire under it all.

    I suggest just opening a cool beverage and watching the fireworks…. trying to understand it can just lead to frustration.

  58. E.M.Smith says:


    California is better, but still variable. I use N95 masks properly applied and with gloves, OR use the (supposedly) N90 sewn by the spouse that uses a HEPA Filter insert made from a vacuum cleaner bag section.

    Others use everthing from bandannas and surgical masks, usually worn right but often enough under the nose, to N95 used right. I’d guess about 85% do it right with good gear.

    Per washing: since heat deactivates the virus in a few hours, I leave the mask in the car and it gets solar cooked between uses. (This was covered in a prior posting. IIRC, 175 F for 30 minutes or longer for lower does it) The spousal sewn masks can be washed and insert changed. Oh, and alcohol bottle in the car or hot soapy water at home, for a tidy up after gear off.

    The major purpose of the mask is to catch droplets from sneezing, coughing, talking, singing, etc. This cuts transmission a lot. Not perfectly, but enough to get R0 below 1 if done well. More important perhaps is that it reduces virus load on exposure. Low innoculum gives milder disease as it gives more time for immunity to build. If initial infection is nasal and low, you are less likely to be hospitalized. If a big dose is inhaled deep in the lungs first, you are much more likely to have severe lung and blood involvement develop.

    So even poor mask use can have some benefits. Proper mask use even more.

    Those doing it poorly will also eventually “contribute” to herd immunity ;’)

  59. cdquarles says:

    I did, later. When reading a paper I want to form my own impression/opinion first.

  60. cdquarles says:

    @H. R.,
    I have. I am in one of the lesser affected counties. Mask use is, at best, 50% by the public. Some wear them outdoors for ease. It is high summer here, so outdoors use is silly. Indoor use does make some sense; but still, it is more of a palliative pending reasonable knowledge of minimum infective dose. Given that I am one of those who take immune suppressant medications and do catch anything circulating, I don’t wear one unless I’m going to a medical facility. Otherwise, I avoid the public. I do go outdoors and catch some sunshine.

  61. jim2 says:

    CIO said: trying to understand it can just lead to frustration.

    That is so true for so many things going on today!

  62. H.R. says:

    @cd (& E.M.) – We had a thorough conversation about masks back in March and into April.

    I have little concern for readers here because anyone who was paying half-attention knows what masks to wear and how and when to wear them. I know you know what’s best for your situation. I certainly wear one when the occasion calls for it.

    I’m just seeing a lot of people with no clue whatsoever about masks wandering around with a mask and getting next to nothing for their efforts. Some people I’ve observed, IMO are actually wearing virus collectors and rebreathing anything and everything that that’s been floating around when the mask isn’t hanging around their neck.
    Update on my county (pop. 204,000): We’ve had 15 deaths since they started keeping records on March 18. I don’t know how many of those were from the virus or died with the virus.

    The last death was on June 13.

  63. YMMV says:

    E.M.Smith: “I suggest just opening a cool beverage and watching the fireworks…. trying to understand it can just lead to frustration.”

    Frustrating … or worse … just look at the history of Europe or the Middle East. Tracing land ownership back through history may be fun for historians, but it is not a good basis for solving any current problem. At some point the powers that be just have to say, as of this date, this is the way it is, and your historical claim has expired. You can’t make everybody happy. “What’s fair got to do with it?” (~Tina Turner)

  64. YMMV says:

    Masks — interesting article about WHO’s reluctance to believe in airborne germs:

    Jimenez and other experts in aerosol transmission have said the WHO is holding too dearly to the notion that germs are spread primarily though contact with a contaminated person or object. That idea was a foundation of modern medicine, and explicitly rejected the obsolete miasma theory that originated in the Middle Ages postulating that poisonous, foul-smelling vapors made up of decaying matter caused diseases such as cholera and the Black Death.

    The idea of germs was one of medicine’s major breakthroughs. Surgeons (et al) used to work without washing their hands (or so I am told. I guess they probably did afterwards, but not before).

  65. Another Ian says:

    “For 80 years cholesterol experts said ‘eat less fat’. Too bad they never had any evidence”


  66. billinoz says:

    EM I have the feeling that many of our Australian Aboriginal activist groups have been following the land title ‘ sovereignity’ claims process in the USA. And trying it on here in Oz. They want a treaty between them & Aborigines. Thank god our constitution should prevent that happening as the Commonwealth has no power to legislate on Crown land. That power is vested in the states.

    In principle it’s a lot simpler here. Australia was claimed by British explorers for the British crown – such as Cook in the 1770’s. And the Crown allocated titles for much of the country to individuals and corporations with no regard for whatever tribal groups were around. After ~ 1850’s when the colonies became self governing, land titles were all registered by colony based Titles Offices. And each state & territory has a land ‘Titles Office’ and issues titles of ownership.

    In the 1990’s some aboriginal groups made claims that they still owned land inherited from their ancestors and which they still lived and used. After a claim went to our High Court and was upheld, the Federal & state parliaments passed legislation establishing a legal process for establishing such claims. Lots of claims were lodged. And many are still being worked through that legal process. However no title issued to a person or company has ever been cancelled. The legal principle being that if the Crown issues a title to anyone, then all previous claims ( by Aboriginal Tribes ) are cancelled.
    And there is the curly situation of Crown Land leased to individuals and companies. In principle such land is still ‘owned’ by the Crown and leased for a specific purpose. Some aboriginal groups have claimed that they still have residual rights to hunt or fish or carry out traditional practices on these Crown lands. That has created uncertainty among some lease holders – especially among family cattle businesses in the drier parts of Australia.

  67. philjourdan says:

    @EM and BillinOz – I was going to jump in, but EM covered it very well.

    It was in the Mini-Series Centennial – that the narrator said “Only in America”. Only in America did we treat the natives as both a sovereign nation and a bunch of savages. Oz and NZ merely treated them as savages (until the great awakening), but never signed treaties with the Natives. The US did, and then broke every one of them. That is our true national shame. The fact that “speak with forked tongue” is synonymous with lying and came from our duplicitous dealings with the native Americans.

    One of the “Heroes” of the old West, was George Armstrong Custer. He did well in the Civil War, but after that, he shamed us again. Attacking Indian (the term at the time) villages of women and children. Indeed, his massacre was when he thought he could take out another village that had virtually no men in it (he thought), which was the trap the Sioux set for him. And he walked right into it.

    Slavery was a common institution the 18th and even the 19th centuries. That does not make it right, but it is not uniquely American (far from it). What is uniquely American is our treatment of the Indians. And thus our true national shame.

  68. Power Grab says:

    @ HR re: “Has anyone else been observing mask wearers? Are you seeing much the same as what I’m seeing?”

    Just this week I received a pack of those blue rectangular masks with the ear loops, plus one branded mask. I get the idea that folks who use that kind of mask make little, if any, effort to clean them before wearings.

    In fact, I’ve seen two short videos of the masks being made in Asia. In one video, the dude making them placed every one on the floor and stomped on it. In the other video, as they sewed them in one long stream, they made no effort to prevent them from dragging across the dirt floor. And we probably think they’re sterile, don’t we?

    When I used to drive tractor for my ex, we always wore dust masks and ear plugs. We would throw the masks into the washer, but not between every wearing.

    After that experience, I really don’t like breathing through a mask that isn’t new or freshly laundered. I’m sure once they were washed, they lost some of their filtering ability. They got kind of fuzzy as the bonded(?) material they were made from deteriorated. But we were too cheap to keep lots of new dust masks around.

    That’s the reason I use a fresh bandanna every day I have to wear one. When the weather was cold, I just folded them in a triangle and tied them around my face/neck. When I didn’t need them on my face, I just pulled them to my neck, like a fashion accessory, don’cha know?

    But now that high temperatures are hovering around 100, so I give them a sort of origami fold (learned from a video done by an Asian young woman) and use 2 stretchy hair loops as ear loops. They’re quick to put on when needed and don’t make my neck hot. The folded method gives 4 layers; the triangle method gives 2 layers.

    Frankly, I consider it all just “medical theater” (to coin a phrase). Even though it is an infringement of my constitutional rights, I do have some experience with the performing arts, so it just feels like I’m playing a bit part in a medical drama. I don’t let it make me angry. I try to avoid letting the impulse to get angry or fearful take root, even though I may see it in others. I don’t go out of my way to make others afraid or angry. Neither of those emotions will solve any problems. On the contrary, whenever I am wearing a mask, I always try to emit positive emotions. I always speak strongly and with a hidden smile, to try to fend off the bad mood that others may be feeling oppressed by.

    I do keep up on my vitamin D and probiotics, etc., and try to resist the impulse to be afraid all the time (the media seem to be making it their purpose in life to scare everyone all the time “ALL FEAR ALL THE TIME!!”), and I do what I can to avoid letting fear take root. I do keep beneficial music going whenever I can, and doing what I can to help others exercise their musical abilities.

    I’m aware that many of this group do take the current situation much more seriously, and I sound like a heretic. Sorry for that.

    Changing the subject–

    All our talk about HCQ and zinc and such led me to lay in a small supply of tonic water and foods that contain zinc, and one zinc-copper supplement. Two times I have used the tonic water and sources of zinc to fend off a slight ill feeling. I think I already reported the first time, but there was a different time.

    One day this week, my long work hours (usually 12-16 hours a day) and lack of sleep led to my feeling rather like a piece of “road kill”, and when that happens, sometimes I develop a migraine aura. I never get migraine headaches, but when I’m burning the candle at both ends, I might develop a migraine aura and have to lay down for 20-30 minutes until the visual disturbance gets large enough to reach the edge of my field of vision, and then I can work again.

    Well, this time after I noticed the beginning of the migraine aura, and was considering getting a pillow and lying down across some chairs, it occurred to me that the tonic water and smoked oysters might help. I just feel like there’s an electrical component to things like migraines, and I think there’s something in the remedy that sets the imbalance right. If I had more time, I’d read more about these things, but I don’t have time, so there it is.

    So I drank my little can of tonic water and ate a can of smoked oysters (I didn’t have the zinc-copper supplement in my office). Within about 10-15 minutes, the “road kill” feeling went away and the migraine aura went away before it could get big enough to require me to lie down. What a pleasant surprise!

    Then I did a brief search for reports that quinine was helpful for migraines. I found a nice article about that and added it to my log of articles to keep.

    Then a couple of days later, I found another article about the benefits of quinine and passed it on to a friend who has some issues that were mentioned in the article. It was well received. I know this is just anecdotal information, but it’s easy for the casual searcher to understand.

    So, thank you everyone who contributed to the discussion of HCQ and its predecessors!

  69. philjourdan says:

    @power Grab – my daughter made me one. It is Army themed (I have gotten a lot of compliments on it).

    I keep it in my backpocket. I do not wash it. It is merely to comply with the gestapo’s orders.

    There is only one way out of this. Herd immunity, The rest is just PC and show. And a means to the totalitarian end.

  70. E.M.Smith says:

    FWIW, I like wearing of masks just because it screws with the facial recognition folks ;-)

    I intend to keep doing it even after this is done with. If asked to remove it, I’ll cough deeply twice, then in gravely voice say “Oh Good! I hated when the Dr. said I ought to wear it.” Then pause…

    I’ll not mention the Dr. In question was Fauchi…

  71. E.M.Smith says:

    @Power Grab:

    About a week ago I had that hot / electric feeling, slightly “sparkle” feeling from a virus onset. Nose getting warm and drippy. Throat starting to tingle. Did a rub on of about 5 ml Ivermectin drench. I started feeling better in hours. Next day mostly gone. Did a 2nd dose and everything was gone end of day.

    No idea what it was, but felt viral. So figured mighf as wel, test the insurance drug.

    Nice to know about quinie and migraine. 2 in the family occasionally have them.

  72. billinoz says:

    @Phil, Check out this Spanish study published in the Lancet. The feasibility of ‘Herd immunity’ is doubtful.


  73. Power Grab says:

    @ philjourdan: Good for you! I’m glad to see people hauling out their sewing machines and getting creative with the masks. With my bandannas, I don’t usually wear them much, only long enough to walk through the office suite if others are present. If it gets moist at all, when I return to my office and take it off, I leave the wet side up so it will dry quickly. I really don’t like using one that smells used.

    @ EM: Heh-heh… I keep wondering if the medicos, and some other control freaks, are noticing all the unexpected consequences. Hospitals in most places are underutilized because they either cancelled their elective procedures or have so successfully frightened people that they don’t dare leave their homes…and the control freaks who wanted to use facial recognition have had to shelve their plans because of all the masks that are in use. Your plan sounds amusing! I wish I could see that.

    I did see some comments on Twitter about how FEMA was busing homeless people into Austin (and Houston?) and such from out of state, just to fill up the hospitals so they could gin up some more fear. I think they’re taking them to Florida, too.

    I hope the idea of using quinine for migraines is helpful. If anyone is helped by its use for that purpose, I’d like to hear about it.

  74. cdquarles says:

    Migraines are, indeed, part electrical. At the membrane, there is a seizure-like effect; which is why seizure meds help some, as well as various ionophores and transport inhibitors. The headache comes from vascular regulation, which is partly hormonally chemical signaling and partly electrical. Specific ion gradients are involved. Sodium out, potassium in. Calcium out, magnesium in. I’ve been taking verapamil, a calcium channel blocker, for them for almost 40 years. I’ve been on valproic acid, in addition, for nearly two years. I mostly get the aura. Only once have I had the headaches be disabling. I went to the hospital because that episode was the worst I’ve ever had and I thought stroke first (bleeding). No stroke and no tumor, thankfully; just a cluster-migraine. So far, the meds are working.

  75. E.M.Smith says:

    Looks like Miniopolis asked Trump for a bucket of $ Millions to repair the riot damage they let happen, and Trump said “no”. Cuomo in NYC also now complaining that Trump isn’t bailing out his mistakes either.

    I’m good with that. Not seeing why Texas and Florida ought to bail out Dimocrat Stupidity Riots…

  76. Another Ian says:


    “No second-wave of coronavirus in Russia, head of Genomic Engineering Lab in Moscow explains why”


  77. Another Ian says:

    “Only herd sanity can inoculate us against this madness”


  78. Another Ian says:

    “Redskins change name to ‘Lizard People’ to better represent population of Washington, DC”


    More at that site

  79. billinoz says:


    Here is Oz, I’m tired to not being able to tango & I’m missing my tango friends. So I’ve been constantly looking at the research on Corona 19 virus and Covid 19. And new scientific research just published suggests a way :
    Use Mouthwash.
    When people first get infected, the Corona 19 virus incubates in the throat & nasal passages.
    If people properly gargle with it to clean the back of the mouth and nasal passages the mouthwash will kill the virus there. And prevent it being spread.

    Here is the research paper :

    ( And of course hand sanitisers and washing hands are still important )

  80. philjourdan says:

    @BillinOz – already seen that one. I do not get my news from fake news.

    And the study is so many what ifs that it defies a real study, It is just more fake news from the fake news.

  81. billinoz says:

    @Phil : And your evidence is ?

  82. billinoz says:

    More evidence, this time from the UK that herd immunity does not exist : https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.09.20148429v1

    PS Phil, Which research are you saying is fake news ? The ones above about herd immunity, or the one which suggests using mouthwash to kill the virus ? Your reply was so vague that you I do not know.

  83. Another Ian says:

    “NY Times Fakes a Climate Change Debate”


    Read the thread and comments and then you get to

    ” Hari Seldon
    July 12, 2020 at 8:32 pm

    Dear Mr. Tesdorf,

    I was born and lived in the former East-Bloc in Europe, so I have practical historical experiences with Pravda/Izvestia (in the school we had to read and discuss articles from Pravda/Isvestia). On the basis of these practical experiences I can state that a comparison of Pravda/Izvestia with NT and other mainstream fake news media outlets (WP, FT, Guardian, CNN, and so on) is very clearly extrem unfair: Pravda/Izvestia were very high profile quality and objective media compared to NY and to other fake news mainstream media outlets. These media could be eventually compared to the “Völkischer Beobachter” (the main media outlet of the Nazis (Goebbels)). In the former East-Bloc it was also part of the communist education against Nazism to read and analyse selected articles from “Völkischer Beobachter”. It is very sad and frustrating to see that such traditional media like NT, WP, FT, Guardian are today not more than political PR fake news media outlets specialised for paid lies.”

    So, in that reading, have we gone from “amazement” to “more amazement” and approaching “super amazement”?

  84. jim2 says:

    RE herd immunity. Italy and NY got an early surge of cases due to lax intervention. Now Italy and NY have a low case count. To me, that is anecdotal proof that herd immunity exists. If the virus mutates slowly over time, then herd immunity may fade. It’s not a simple issue.

  85. jim2 says:

    RE Minneapolis Federal bailout. I would be very happy if the Fed gave no money directly to the States and cities. If a state wants to build a fast train or a city an underground subway, let them figure out how to finance it! They will get the benefit, they should bear the cost.

  86. tom0mason says:

    billinoz ,
    Amongst the best pharmaceutical grade whiskey is Kingsbarns Spirit Drink
    Scotch Malt Spirit Drink
    Distillery Bottling 63.5% alcohol.

    Probably the world’s finest mouthwash.

  87. H.R. says:

    And another comment from the peanut gallery about herd immunity…

    I’ve not worried one way or the other about herd immunity from the Kung Flu. If it happens, it happens. When or even if; who knows?

    I’m at ease with the virus going around because there are preventatives and a variety of effective treatments. All but the most seriously health compromised people should pull through a case of the Wuhan Flu with anywhere from mild to very nasty cases, but most will pull through… so long as the politicians quit screwing with the doctors’ options for political reasons.

    The politician Powers That Be are responsible for killing a lot of people just to ‘Get Trump.’
    When the Chinese virus first busted loose, doctors were treating it based on other viruses and outcomes were not good, terrible in fact. Then they caught on that it wasn’t the same old thing and started finding different treatments that worked. Good job by the medicos.

    What amazes me is how many different effective treatments there are. There are a half-dozen or more treatments that are quite effective, so if one of them is unsuitable due to an existing condition, there’s another one that is probably compatible with someone’s ailments or meds.

  88. cdquarles says:

    Sorry, Bill, herd immunity *is* a thing. Biologically, it *must* be so; otherwise, organisms could not be fruitful and multiply in the presence of others that alter their local environment to enhance their own success. A Nature article: https://media.nature.com/original/magazine-assets/d41586-020-01916-2/d41586-020-01916-2.pdf. I am not surprised. Multicellular organisms grow, develop and maintain themselves via both local chemical signals and systemic ones. (Think cyclic AMP/GMP and many more.)

  89. E.M.Smith says:

    The “no herd immunity” claim is flawed dud to being an antibidy test that ignores memory T cells. IgA and IgM fade over time. After 2 months both are mostly gone. But memory T cells remember and when the virys returns, stimulates new Ig creation.

    Furthermore, young folks kill off the virus with innate immunity mechanisms so don’t get a big Ig production, yet are still immune.

    The few folks who “get it twice” are not representativevofvthe herd and mechanism is not know. Was it false positive tests the first time? A false negative saying they were recovered when still sick? A false positive on the second test when it was some other illness? That perdon having immunuty issues?

    One case I know of was self diagnosed the first time and never tested then. So was it really covid? Was the “recovery” complete, or only partial?

    Now I have great concern that ADE Antibody Dependant Enhancement might exist with this virus, as it did with Sars-Covid-1 in vaccine testing. That is why I’m avoiding getting it and will not take a vaccine for at least a year of widespread trials. So it isn’t like I believe you can’t get it twice no matter what. I’m just seeing untidy thinking on all sides.

  90. Another Ian says:

    Russian University Successfully Completes First COVID-19 Vaccine Trials”


  91. billinoz says:

    I posted 3 links to scientific research. I was hoping that folks here would reply referring to other science which contradicted Or supported what I said about herd immunity, or using mouth wash. Nothing like that presented here yet.

  92. philjourdan says:

    @billinoz – both. The study on herd immunity is bunk. That is because herd immunity has not been achieved. so that study is purely theoretical without any basis in fact.

    And mouthwash may help, but is hardly a be all end all. Mouthwash is merely alcohol and germ (i.e. bacteria) killer. Covid is a VIRUS! AB does not work on VIRUSES.

    Get a grip.

  93. philjourdan says:

    @Billinoz – what science? The science of fake news? Seriously, I can post a link to a study that showed HCQ was bad for in the fight. Oh wait, no I cant since it has been retracted. INdia and other nations are reporting remarkable results with HCQ. But not mainstream science. Why?

    The same reason you cannot find any studies about the bunk of AGW in Mainstream science! The same reason you cannot find any truth in Mainstream News! It destroys the narrative they are pusing – one world governance.

    Step out of “mainstream” and step into knowledge.

    I know your next response is going to be “conspiracy theory!”. Except we have mountains of evidence for these conspiracies. Which is evidence that the theories are correct.

    You have been lied to so much, why do you still believe a word they say? Because they say so. Which is the stupidest reason of all.

  94. philjourdan says:

    tom0mason says:
    13 July 2020 at 1:14 pm

    I prefer 160 proof moonshine. :-)

  95. E.M.Smith says:

    The virus coat dissolves in alcohol and gets denatured so cannot infect.

    The link to mouthwash gave me a failed link message. The big issue I see is that by the time you get home to gargle, the virus already infected your cells.

    I DID comment on herd immunity. It MIGHT happen, and best indication is most folks develop immunity. BUT, after many months, your antibody level drops low. At that level, SARS-Covid Type One had ADE problems, repeat infections more lethal than the first exposure, and vaccinated mice died. Does SARS-Covid Type Two (Chinese Wuhan virus) do the same? We don’t know, but there are a few anecdotal cases of repeat infection. But poorly attested. It will take months to know as we wait for antibody levels to age out.

    No, I didn’t spend hours finding the references, but they were posted in the past.

    Short form is we don’t know and can’t know yet.

  96. billinoz says:

    @Phil, Just how much of that 160 proof moonshine have you been drinking ? A tad toooo much ?

  97. Simon Derricutt says:

    Trouble with using alcohol to remove the lipid coating of the virus and thus deactivate it is that you need at least 60% alcohol to do that (120 proof US spirit). Used to be that I could buy Stroh Rum at 60% alcohol in Germany, but the maximum in France seems to be 55% alcohol. With the rum, a very small glass was about the limit I could take – more inhaled than sipped. You couldn’t gargle with it anyway. As such, I’d suspect that the idea of removing inhaled virus before you get infected isn’t going to work well, since you’d really need to get it up into the sinuses and that would sting pretty badly. If you did it too often, you’d probably also damage the mucous membranes since the skin of them is pretty fragile.

    Since the immune system has several methods of clearing out invading viruses and bacteria, and one of them is in the mucus itself, it seems you’d be better off boosting vitamin D and Zinc (+ Copper and Selenium) so that it will deal with the inevitable encounters with the virus. If you get a dose of virus that’s too large for the immune system to immediately deal with, you might start to get some symptoms, and then is the time to immediately hit it with HCQ or Ivermectin (and Zinc) to stop the replication or severely slow it down, and thus give your body time to develop the right T-cells to remove the virus. Again, it’s the immune system that actually does the job, and we’re just trying to make sure it’s not overwhelmed. If it is nevertheless overwhelmed, then it seems likely you’ll get really ill, there’ll be a cytokine storm, and that will attack blood, kidneys, brain, heart, etc. and unless you get fast treatment at that point (Dexamethasone?) the risk of death or severe damage gets pretty high. At that point, extra Oxygen will likely help, too, as well as something to thin the blood.

    For herd immunity, I think things get a bit more complex. There will be a group where their immune systems just destroy the virus without either getting symptoms or developing antibodies. There will be people who get some symptoms and produce antibodies. There will be people who get ill enough to need hospital, and they will likely have some antibodies after a couple of weeks. Seems you can improve your chances of being in the first group by getting adequate vitamin D and minerals, but there may be some genetic factors involved too. Blood type O is an advantage, blood type A a disadvantage. In France, fewer smokers were among those hospitalised, whereas they expected them to be over-represented. It seems logical that those in the first group aren’t going to pass on any infection (their immune system deals with the virus effectively, so they don’t multiply). For the second group, they will be infectious for a day or two before they show symptoms, but treatment with HCQ or Ivermectin seems to result in them not being infectious within 5 days (no virus found in their throats). For the third group, either they didn’t treat early enough (or not at all) and their immune systems didn’t work well-enough, or they had some immune system problem even with the extra help.

    ossqss above pointed to the Indian experiment using HCQ as prophylactic for those in contact with (tested) infected people, which implies that the success-rate there is very good. Not many got ill, even fewer needed hospitalisation, very few deaths. With 100,000 or more people involved here, I’d say that was a big-enough study. No vitamin D or Zinc added here, either.

    So maybe there’s a reasonable way to instantly produce herd immunity, by giving enough people prophylactic doses (choice of HCQ or Ivermectin). This obviously works for more than 80% of people in India, and those people would not become infectious even when exposed to the virus. Maybe even better if we added Zinc and vitamin D to the pills to take. As far as I can see, the risk of getting ill from the supplements and HCQ/Ivermectin is almost-zero (and those known to be at risk from them would be known beforehand and already be taking quite a few pills each day, and could be shielded instead).

    EM mentioned ADE again as a possible problem with a COVID-19 vaccine, because that problem was encountered with the SARS-COV-1 vaccines. It might have already have been a problem with the people in old-folks’ homes, who are probably given a ‘flu vaccine each year that would have some coronavirus content within it.

    Worth reading Dr Malcolm Kendrick on this subject. Try https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/06/02/how-does-covid-kill-people/ for a representative post. He’s seen his patients just fade and die without obvious symptoms or distress. Given the damage this disease can cause, even those who don’t die can have severe problems for a long time after. Seems far better to avoid getting ill with it in the first place….

  98. Simon Derricutt says:

    And another thing…. I think it was Another Ian who first pointed me to Bayou Renaissance Man. Another one who considers himself centre of the bird, enjoys his guns, and mixes in some humour among the serious stuff. https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2020/07/dont-be-tempted-to-roll-over-and-play.html is about possible coming problems in the USA, and ways of dealing with them. Since he’s an ex-pastor (do you ever become an ex-pastor or ex-engineer?) this might be unexpected, but I agree it’s a better outcome if the attacker dies instead of me or mine.

    The comments there aren’t generally as informative as here, but the articles are good.

  99. cdquarles says:

    Another Covid transmission paper, though this one is a model only paper: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15459624.2020.1784427?needAccess=true.

  100. cdquarles says:

    Another Covid immunity paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0995-0.pdf. Yeah, a Nature one. Looks good to me, though.

  101. A C Osborn says:

    Simon Derricutt says: 14 July 2020 at 10:58 am

    Spot on and it will take someone like the Indians with no “Trump bad” connotations to implement it.

  102. p.g.sharrow says:

    My cousin just went on a rant on FB that I felt was good enough to post at my blog to preserve it fr5om the FB censors;
    She wanted it shared…….so I did.

  103. Another Ian says:

    “Coronavirus forces cells to grow tentacles to help it invade other cells”


  104. Another Ian says:
  105. E.M.Smith says:


    Sudden brain anurism. I always liked Grant Imahara and his infectious smile and good humor.

  106. ossqss says:



    Then there is this from ZH, I know, but it is actually data, and not the first time I have viewed it over several months. I work in the FinTech industry and am seeing it. :-)


  107. David A says:

    AC , says “Spot on and it will take someone like the Indians with no “Trump bad” connotations to implement it.”

    Yep, Prime Minister Modi is very popular and has a great relationship with President Trump. If you missed it look up P. Trump’s visit to India and the many standing Os he received in the stadium filled with about 120k.

    Modi’s praise, very high praise of P Trump, could bring a million vote swing in the US.

  108. p.g.sharrow says:

    ACOsborn; The Bubonic Plague has always been with us in our wild rodent population. If it moves into the human population there must be a change in environmental vector conditions.
    It seems that times of weak Sun give rise to many plagues and disasters.

  109. E.M.Smith says:

    Plague is endemic to the rodents of the USA West. We get a few cases every year. Take your doxycycline or cipro and forget about it. Just don’t go out in spring and hang out around critters (which is what every hunter, fisher, and camper does each year…)


    Where is plague most common in the United States?
    Plague occurs in rural and semi-rural areas of the western United States. Plague is most common in the southwestern states, particularly New Mexico, Arizona, and Colorado.

    Who is at risk for getting plague in the United States?
    Human plague occurs in areas where the bacteria are present in wild rodent populations. The risks are generally highest in rural and semi-rural areas, including homes that provide food and shelter for various ground squirrels, chipmunks and wood rats, or other areas where you may encounter rodents.

    What is plague?
    Plague is an infectious disease that affects rodents, certain other animals, and humans. It is caused by the Yersinia pestis bacteria. These bacteria are found in many areas of the world, including the United States.

    How do people become infected with plague?
    People most commonly acquire plague when they are bitten by a flea that is infected with the plague bacteria. People can also become infected from direct contact with infected tissues or fluids while handling an animal that is sick with or that has died from plague. Finally, people can become infected from inhaling respiratory droplets after close contact with cats and humans with pneumonic plague.

    How many cases of plague occur in the United States? Globally?
    Plague was first introduced into the United States in 1900. Between 1900 and 2012, 1006 confirmed or probable human plague cases occurred in the United States. Over 80% of United States plague cases have been the bubonic form. In recent decades, an average of 7 human plague cases are reported each year (range: 1-17 cases per year). Plague has occurred in people of all ages (infants up to age 96), though 50% of cases occur in people ages 12–45. Worldwide, between 1,000 and 2,000 cases each year are reported to the World Health Organizationexternal icon (WHO), though the true number is likely much higher.

    I grew up in a plague area (malaria too…) in California. It happens.

  110. E.M.Smith says:

    To P.G.s point:

    Low solar activity, more rain, more plant growth, gives more rodent population growth AND the conditions for locusts to have an outbreak as they get over fed. Result? Plague of locusts and disease plague. But we have antibiotics and pesticides now.

  111. E.M.Smith says:

    Oh, and Hanta Virus in the desert southwest has the same pattern. After wet years, plants increase, you get a rodent explosion, then a hanta virus outbreak from rodent droppings.

    I’d expect other diseases in other parts of the world will act the same. It’s all about the water cycle, not CO2, not temperature.

  112. Terry Jackson says:
  113. E.M.Smith says:


    Interesting that it works by causing the cells to burn fat, depriving the virus of necessary materials.

    Has me wondering if the fat burning keto diet has a similar benefit.

  114. Another Ian says:

    Looks like Twitter has been hacked

    “Holy Crap. — It seems like the hackers got access to “Twitter Panel”, which is basically hacking one of the Twitter admins/employees. This gives direct admin access to accounts and allows individuals to chance e-mail & password.”


  115. cdquarles says:

    I joined twitter years ago so my children could reach me if other means were unavailable. I changed my password and phone number.

  116. E.M.Smith says:

    Looks like blue check verified accounts were locked


    Wonder how much information / message history was exfiltrated?

    Why I don’t DO twitter….

  117. Power Grab says:

    One of the comments about that on Twitter was that all the victims had TikTok on their phones.

    I only saw that one time. I don’t know if it’s true or not.

  118. E.M.Smith says:

    The “hack” is claimed to gave taken over a Twitter Admin account. If that is correct, it wasn’t TikToc on user phones. More likely the Admin got phished or bought off.

  119. E.M.Smith says:

    BTW, Ruth B.G. is back in hospital and the left is having a peptic moment.

  120. ossqss says:

    I had to watch this yesterday and it gave me nightmares. I still hear that friggin laugh, but, butt, it is now your turn :-)

  121. ossqss says:

    Ok, on Masks, I just saw this study I read referenced on Fox tonight. Read it.


  122. p.g.sharrow says:

    @ossqss; Yes , very intense ! I came by the transcription yesterday and found that Utube an hour ago. Maybe not for the feint of heart!

  123. Terry Jackson says:

    I suspect any of the high protein/fat diets would be helpful, and any using the Food Pyramid would be somewhere between deleterious and disastrous. I also suspect very high Vit D and C are very good protections. I doubled the D dose to 10,000/ day and added C at 6 grams initially and dropped back to 2 grams, and the dental hygienist who cleaned my teeth in mid June was astounded at how little bleeding her cleaning produced. Looks like lower inflammation, so should be also a good program for the other ills of aging.

  124. tom0mason says:

    I see that WUWT site is effectively being deplatformed — see more at https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/15/wuwt-is-being-deplatformed-service-interuptions-the-next-few-days/
    The site will be moving back to WordPress, service interruptions likely.

  125. llanfar says:

    @ossqss what I got from that Nature study was that wearing a surgical mask would catch droplets from masks, but not catch aerosols. And that rhinovirus, influenza, and seasonal coronavirus were present in both.

    That’s a pretty strong indicator that masks should be limited to the sick…

  126. cdquarles says:

    Limitations of that study are small numbers and uses p-values. Upside, it does give a bit of evidence for use in medical settings for ill people and people who have to work with them for their conditions.

  127. H.R. says:

    I don’t know why I didn’t think of this before.

    I like extra crispy hashbrowns and home fries, either the rounds/half-rounds or 1/4″ cubed ones.

    The Mrs. took her mom out to lunch yesterday. M-I-L hardly eats, so the leftover fish and chips came home to us. Leftover, reheated fries suck and usually we don’t bring them home or they wind up getting pitched if they do make it home.

    This morning, I decided that the leftover fries would make dandy, extra crispy cubed home fries. I lined up the fries and went down the length of them with a knife, In about a minute I had a nice pile of potato cubes.

    I heated up some bacon grease and tossed in the cubes. They got very crispy very fast since they are already cooked. Yum! I fried a couple of eggs in the remaining bacon grease after fishing out the potatoes.

    Soooo… now I know what to do with doggie bag fries. I can’t believe I didn’t think of this sooner.

  128. Power Grab says:

    @ HR

    What a great idea! I almost never finish all the fries I get with fast food meals. I just have been throwing them out because as leftovers, they’re not very enticing.

    I will have to try your leftover soon. I have some bacon grease ready to use.

  129. p.g.sharrow says:

    AH-H-H potatoes ! my favorite fruit ….er… vegetable…….. er whatever! fried boiled or baked, hot or cold with condiments or naked. ;-)
    Too bad they are toxic. :-( eat them anyway. Small diced potatoes fried with bacon, eggs and cheese. 8-) heaven for this hog!

  130. p.g.sharrow says:

    Back in the good old days when we rendered animal fats for storage, we would press off the hot grease from the cracklins and then clearify it by frying potatoes in it. Any time there was deep fat frying of anything you finished up with fried potatoes to clean the grease for it’s next use. ;-)

    Couple of months ago I needed to render off a batch of beef fat trimmings I had saved up for tallow. As beef fat cook’s down it gives off a foul odor, yuck! but once rendered off that is gone. Then I pressed it off into tallow grease and Dog Treats, I thin sliced up a pound of potatoes to clean it up before jarring it up for storage. Potato chips ;-) pg treats 8-)

  131. llanfar says:


    They autopsied dead coronavirus victims against WHO guidelines…

  132. Power Grab says:

    @ llanfar:

    That’s a fascinating article! It’s from late May, though…and we’re just now hearing about it…

  133. E.M.Smith says:

    I suspect that “Italy autopsy” article is either click bait or a fraud (or perhaps just a very bad translation). First off, lots of folks have done autopsies.


    Here’s s German one:


    One did find food particles, and bacteria on them, in the lungs, but that was in addition to the virus. The notion this disease is a bacteria is, um, “far fetched”.

    Yes, anticoagulants are important, but not going to release 14k folks in a day. We’ve known about anticoagulants for a while now.

  134. philjourdan says:

    @Ossqss – Yea, that bugs me (besides, I collect coins – both for the value (I still find wheat pennies and on a rare occasion, a mercury dime). SO I want to know what caused a coin shortage? I had not thought of it being a control mechanism. But now I will. I know my governor is a little hitler. He has proven that. SO I do not put it past him.

  135. philjourdan says:

    @HR – the only way to reheat fries! I hate microwaved fries, but refried fries are good!!!

  136. E.M.Smith says:

    To properly make fries in the first place, you are supposed to cook them about 3/4 done, then let them rest for several minutes, then drop them back in the oil to finish and make a proper crispy fry. Many fast food places do not do that…

    So re-fry full in the knowledge that you are fixing their error ;-)

  137. H.R. says:

    Anybody ever run across feral hamsters?

    Keep this in mind, I’m in the 4-season Eastern Midwest. It gets downright cold here in Winter.

    I’ve put out some traps for field mice and chipmunks. They are tearing up around the house.

    I checked my traps two days ago and I got a mouse, but it was the strangest colored mouse I’d ever seen; white belly, brown saddle back, black spots in the brown. Hmmm… that’s odd?

    Into a baggie and into the bin to await a ride to his final resting place on trash day, which was today.

    Yesterday, it hit me that the ‘mouse’ had only a stumpy tail and chubby cheeks. Not mouse-like at all. Then it hit me that this was either an escaped pet or a descendent of an escaped. pet. The only hamsters around these parts are in pet stores or kids’ bedrooms.

    I’m pretty sure it was a hamster because of the stumpy tail. But I think it survived through the Winter and might be a couple of generations away from the original escapee.

    I did a search on feral gerbils, and there are some in the U.S., but a search on feral hamsters only turned up one story by someone in Texas, but the link was bad.

    So, is anyone aware of escaped hamsters that have gone feral?

  138. YMMV says:

    MedCram Update #96 discusses an autopsy paper. https://youtu.be/kk7KNBak-i0
    His theory is that covid is a blood clotting disease, but with different symptoms depending on where the blood clots are. And that the blood clots form very early in the disease, maybe even before the patient gets to the hospital, and that they keep forming even when given full strength anti-coagulants.

  139. ossqss says:

    Oh my, we may have have a Hamster invasion in OH. Good news is they don’t do what Moles or Chipmunks do. Easy fix if needed. :-)

    I have one laid to rest at the bottom of a tree in the back yard from the kids days. RIP Hammy>

  140. Another Ian says:


    I forwarded you an interesting email re China. Explanation there-in

  141. E.M.Smith says:

    @ Ossqss:

    I fished out the graph:

  142. ossqss says:

    Ok, some techno prepper babble for consumption.

    Neighbor was moving and had a 5 house phone cordless system, ATT I think, and wanted to know if I wanted it. It was new and they didn’t want it. They even had 2 battery replacements they bought expecting to have replacements on hand. Well, I did not want the phones, but did want the batteries, which were paired up as packs of 2 AAA with cords. Sooo, I deconstructed the batteries, tossed the phones, and was down to the NiMh battery levels independently and pulled off the welded tabs and I then had 14 rechargeable batteries which work quite well in those devices that can use them like my WtdPro flashlights that use 3 in adapter cases (I use the 18650 rechargeable batteries as normal in them) .

    That said, another neighbor gave me a bunch of Vaping pen batteries, soo I deconstructed them and charged them to voltage with my Super Brain charger (yes that is what it is called) and they came to full charge. However these batteries had tabs also, but were sealed in an a adhesive metallic tape if you will. Lithium ion I am pretty sure, no designation on them at all. I pulled the housing tape off to see, same vapor sealing tape you see on cell phone batteries, if they too would have normal battery tabs on them and they didn’t. What they did have was a very sweet smelling caustic kinda thing going on, so they were abandoned and resealed in plastic to stop the really strange smell before final disposal. They were probably Chinese and who knows what the heck that strong weird smell was. I think they were emitting gas, just like my contained garage door opener in the ziplock that keeps turning into a balloon :-)

    So, there ya have it, 14 good AAA rechargeable batteries from someone’s garbage an some stinky ones to avoid…….

  143. Another Ian says:

    “Websites Crash Worldwide as Cloudflare Suffers Outage”


    Looks like might be wider

  144. Another Ian says:

    Worth a thought IMO

    I have a Interesting thought on the whole vaccine thing. Im not a ant vaxer by the way, just feel proper precautions and testing should be adhered to like anything else.

    A lot of these people who are going to trip on themselves trying to be the first to get that vaccine are the same people who tell us farmers that biotech seeds and some of the herbicides and insecticides are unsafe even though they went through multiple years of testing and trials before they released it for sale. More years of trials then what im guaranteeing any vaccine will be. But yet we’re wrong on how we’re using science after long trials, while its ok to ramrod a vaccine through in a short period of time not knowing the long term effects. Makes me shake my head sometimes. At least with what we do if it proves harmful they pull the license and we can no longer use it. Once the injection takes place, you’re stuck with it. Side effects or not. No getting rid of it if found with adverse side effects.”


  145. rhoda klapp says:

    There’s a difference between being an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist and being suspicious of being first to use some vaccine that has been incompletely tested and rushed into use in a race between every dodgy biotech outfit in the world. I won’t be getting it.

  146. Another Ian says:

    In line with Chiefio lectures on replacement of expensive items (maybe)

    “Here’s the latest one: a new sodium-graphite sandwich, apparently. Promises to be as good as lithium batteries but without the lithium. Catch this sighting before it too disappears:


    From https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/17/open-thread-weekend-23/#comment-3036969

    WUWT moving shop and the warnings that this thread may not

  147. ossqss says:

    An interesting perspective.

    View at Medium.com

  148. Another Ian says:

    A song for our time

    Chuck Mead “I ain’t been nowhere”

  149. Another Ian says:

    Peer reviewed top science – “Nature” none-the-less


    I wonder what sort of a dent your Dust Bowl made in CO2 levels?

  150. ossqss says:

    Ian, that is an Ianstant (spelling is right) classic. I have played it 5 times to get the lyrics down, and they will be used somewhere :-)

  151. Power Grab says:

    @ HR:

    Well, I cut up and refried the french fries in bacon grease. They received the 2 thumbs-up sign!

  152. Another Ian says:

    “Two-Thirds of COVID-19 Deaths in US Occurred in 10 States”


    “It’s a relatively bland collation of numbers, but just one line stood out for me, the following.

    Of those 30 counties, 24 are in the Northeast corridor between Philadelphia and Boston, the passageway served by a commuter railway system that runs through Manhattan.

    Perhaps New York itself is the super spreader.”

  153. Another Ian says:

    Re ossqss says:
    19 July 2020 at 4:55 am

    All I did was forwarded it. The version I got emailed has the words printed as it is sung but didn’t come with links so I had to find one that did.

    Illustrates a thing that amazes me – a friend in US sent it , I get it this local morning and then rebroadcast back to you folk. Sure beats airmail.

  154. tom0mason says:

    Meanwhile charging a EV doesn’t go quite to plan …

    Insurance company will have fun with this.

  155. tom0mason says:

    And the list grows …
    At Retraction Watch the list of papers linked to COVID-19 grows, with 25 Retracted papers, 3 ‘Temporarily retracted’ papers, and a paper listed as ‘Expressions of concern’.

    See it all at https://retractionwatch.com/retracted-coronavirus-covid-19-papers/

  156. jim2 says:

    The Daily Signal link is dead. Some parts of the site work, some don’t.

  157. ossqss says:

    @EM, did anything change on your site settings recently? I loaded a Cisco VPN update on my work laptop today and wordpress is not allowing me to connect anylonger, even outside of the VPN connection. It works on all other devices, but the upgraded one.

  158. ossqss says:

    As the caption states ;-)

  159. ossqss says:

    Well, the caption didn’t make it, but said “I don’t know what this is, but I want one” !

  160. cdquarles says:

    This is interesting, and disgusting: https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/07/connecticut-pathologists-study-shows-cdc-coronavirus-test-kits-generate-30-false-positive-results/. Basically this means little to none of the reports can be taken, at face value, as true. It’ll take a lot more information to sort this fustercluck out.

  161. philjourdan says:

    @CD – clear your cache. That fixes issues like the WordPress one 9 out of 10 times.

  162. Another Ian says:

    “Feehery: It’s about the Trump voter

    “So they keep their mouths shut. But they are going to vote this fall. They can’t wait to vote this fall.”


    Via “Tip of the Spear”

  163. Another Ian says:

    One way of looking at it

  164. Another Ian says:

    “Targeted Attempted Assassination – Family of Federal Judge Gunned Down in Their NJ Home – Massive Manhunt Underway…Targeted Attempted Assassination – Family of Federal Judge Gunned Down in Their NJ Home – Massive Manhunt Underway…”


  165. Another Ian says:

    “Why the Polls Predict Trump Will Win ”


  166. ossqss says:

    @EM, nevermind about the site settings. The new Cisco VPN pushed browser extentions that are blocking twitter and all wordpress sites etc..

  167. H.R. says:

    I stopped by Tractor Supply today and picked up some Ivermectin. I thought it wouldn’t hurt to have some on hand.

    $3.99 plus tax for enough to treat a 1250-pound horse.

  168. philjourdan says:

    @ANother Ian – Re: Targeted assassination – Sadly, it was just another wacko lawyer who lost before her court. Just add him to the Avenati list.

  169. ossqss says:

    Ok, I am officially putting out an APB for the MIA Chiefio.

  170. E.M.Smith says:


    I SAW HIM! I SAW HIM! Walking around Pinnacles National Park and camp grounds!

  171. ossqss says:

    LOL, here ya go.

    This was fascinating (hopefully accurate), and related to some degree :-)

  172. Another Ian says:

    Well I have survived.

    Borders opened here, tourists on pent-up move. Should be corona free but so should Victoria. I went in to our usual major centre last week for supplies (including the water pipe material I’ve been waiting for). Within a couple of days, showed symptoms that, any other year, would have been another bloody cold/flu chewing on me. But this year? A couple of phone medical consultations and I decided there were too many things swinging to not know – didn’t want to be the bloke who lit up the village for one thing. Drove in, got swabbed, confined to barracks and the all clear today. No details on what test is being used.

    Guess I’ve made some numerocrat happy too.

  173. billinoz says:

    I am not sure if this is for edification or for amusement. However the 5 million inhabitants of the city of Melbourne in Australia, are definitely NOT amused.

    Here are the details of how totally stuff up the 14 day quarantine used to prevent incoming infected arrivals spreading Covid 19 disease.
    It’s a revealing read.
    Mind you this is from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation which is always really keen to protect any Labor Party government here in Oz . If they are willing to publish the actual truth must be a complete horror story.

  174. billinoz says:

    The report was based on a ABC TV program the 7.30 Report. Much more in the video :

  175. Pingback: Pinnacles, The Glory Road | Musings from the Chiefio

  176. YMMV says:

    Wow! This is BIG! We’ve talked about false positives. It turns out that some positives are true but irrelevant. A fast cheap test is better than the FDA gold standard test, in practice, for controlling the virus spread.

  177. E.M.Smith says:

    @Another Ian:

    Trump is no nut job. He IS an Alpha Male and crafty about it. He is sensitive to criticism, but getting over that due to daily massive inoculation. His “problem” is that he has normal empathy and is surrounded by Government And NGO Sociopaths. The daily grind of that wears on him. He uses the rallies to remember normal people.

    It is incredibly wearing to be an exceptional person from a middle class origin embedded in the Strange Land of the elites. I’ve visited it from time to time and find it a corrupt place. I think Trump had the same experience, but now he is so rich as to be isolated from his roots in construction crews. So alien and isolated in both cultures.

    I wish I could be his friend, just to let him know Real Folks still exist and appreciate him. Someone he could cuss at knowing I’d cuss back at him if he deserved it, but tell any reporters it was none of their f-ing business what me and my freinds said. Not from money or influence, but just because it’s none of their damn business. Real trust between friends. It’s a thing.

  178. Another Ian says:

    E.M. Re Trump

    After posting I thought I should have added a “No Bloody Way” – which does come out of the link long handledly.

    And got sidetracked

  179. Another Ian says:

    “Three Gorges Dam deformed but safe, say operators…”


  180. H.R. says:

    @Another Ian and E.M. – Well, President Trump is crazy… like a fox :o)

    Think for a minute of everything the Dems, Uniparty, and GEBs have thrown at President Trump to get rid of him starting even before the election; pussygate, Rusia! Russia! Russia!, Stormy Daniels, obstruction, to name but a few. Nothing has worked.

    He’s only one man but he has the D.C. Swamp surrounded.

    Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he has been studying and preparing for the Presidency for 30 or more years. There was a 3-year witch hunt against him using the resources of the Federal government, an army of lawyers, and their minions, and they found nothing, zero, nada, zip. They couldn’t find so much as a parking ticket. He was prepared for the scrutiny.

    President Trump set out to Make America Great Again. That’s it. That’s his agenda. It has cost him a good bit of his personal fortune to do it, too.

    Meanwhile, all but a handful of people in D.C. are beavering away at “Make My Cayman Islands Bank Account Greater And Greater Again And Again” through graft and corruption. That’s why they are there in D.C. That’s where the money is. And to them, anybody who is in D.C. who is not there to amass wealth and power for themselves must be crazy!.

    I believe the Greedy Evil Bastards and commies (aka Senators and Members of Congress) actually think he is crazy. They think, “Who in their right mind comes to D.C. to work for the American people? You’re screwing up our racket, Trump. We must stop you by any means necessary.”

  181. p.g.sharrow says:

    @H.R., boy you got all of that right!
    And our President is a Hoover Vacuuming up information day and night. Those that work with him are in awe of his ability to process information. I would say, that if you have something to contribute, send it. There is a small army of people that screen these things and pass on any that have value. I suspect this blog is monitored as well,

  182. Compu Gator says:

    E.M.: Is Ϝɑlυη Ҁοиȝ [×] too risky a topic herein, according to your sense of keeping a low-enough profile in your Chiefioblog to avoid, um, external entanglements?  I’d wanted to mention and comment on an ABC (Oz) feature article, and thought I ought to ask in advance. It’s not that Down-Under network’s 1st look at the organization, but the 1st I’d seen.

    Note ×: Read letters as they would be interpreted in ignorance of nonLatin scripts, not as what they really represent. Lawdy!  I sho’ do love that Unicode. I hope you have all the fonts necessary for displaying those letters. Beware that I’d expect not to disguise any words, but to use plain Latin letters in any comments I wrote herein.

  183. cdquarles says:

    Hmm, is that what happened?

  184. cdquarles says:

    Well, since that comment went through … Another antibody paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.14.20151126v1.full.pdf, and a twitter thread discussing it: https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1285618977654407169.

    This is one of the better papers I’ve seen. It includes the sensitivity and specificity of their test. They did a small longitudinal arm, too. That one is plagued by the small numbers and it uses p-values.

  185. E.M.Smith says:


    Not sure what you were trying to encode. Kalvin Cohn? He Who Shall Not Be Named? Eric Caramello? FWIW: I think it’s now too late to keep a low profile. Go for it. My only rules are don’t advocate for illegal violence (so pro MJ is fine, firebombing courthouses not so much) and be polite about things ( especially no “insults to the person” of others here – but calling politicians scum bucket grafters is fine :-) they may not be people anyway ;-)

    Oh, and try for PG14 rated but the occasional R rated is OK. X and porn not allowed.


    A couple of name news outlets signed up as followers some years back. Don’t know if they are still here. I suspect a staffer from a campaign might be one too. Many lurkers in 3 digits at one time.

  186. cdquarles says:

    I’d say that our gator is referencing the folk behind/publish The Epoch Times. This group, among others, have been persecuted in China.

  187. jim2 says:

    I think CG was going for Falun Gong.

  188. E.M.Smith says:

    As I regularly post China news produced by Falun Gong members, I’m fine with them.

    They have some of the best, most honest, news on China, IMHO.

    Truth is one of the pillars of their beliefs.

  189. p.g.sharrow says:

    @EMSmith; I see subjects and word phrases used here show up in “talking heads” and reporters articles some days later than their use here. Maybe just “like minds” with like thoughts based on happening events. You do seem to have an interesting group of wise follower/contributors here. As to lurkers here, I guessed at more then a few, but your spam bucket must be the size of a Big Dumptruck! Sifting that thing for worthy morsels must be a major chore. Commentors on my little blog are very few, even so the spammers hit daily generally while not even looking at posts they comment on or even not being listed as visiters

  190. cdquarles says:

    Here is a paper that discusses influenza epidemic modelling: https://www.nap.edu/download/11800. It is free, though you need an email address. Give it a throwaway one.

  191. E.M.Smith says:

    That’s why I set a “few months” time out on comment ability on an article.
    Most SPAM is auto generated by bots. These crawl the web, but that takes months to repeat. This blocks most of them on most older articles.

    So usually it’s just a half dozen or so per day. Sometimes it jumps up closer to 50.

    Then, using white list approval (I approve new comments once, then the same name / IP# combo gets auto approved in future) means almost no valid posts end up in SPAM or moderation. Quick scan of SPAM and click Empty SPAM is about it. So, say 50 SPAM show up and 45 of them are from foo@HairstylesToday, I can scan for that right quick.

  192. Another Ian says:

    “Ridd appeal: JCU spent a fortune to win the case and trash its own reputation”


  193. H.R. says:

    @E.M. and all – Over the years, I’ve only had one or two posts hit the spam bucket for unknown reasons. E.M. found them and put them in the comments.

    I had a problem within the past year where I was getting thrown into moderation. E.M. spotted the problem. I had cleared my cache and I made a typo in my email address when I reentered my info into the form autocomplete feature. Fixed what E.M. found and no problems since.

    BUT!! Over the years, I have had maybe a bit under a dozen comments just disappear into cyberspace; POOF! I have no clue what happened with those comments. They are probably being read by alien life forms two or three galaxies over.

    Once or twice, when it first happened, I asked E.M. to check the bins and he said nothing from me was there. After a while, I just marked it down to the Fickle Finger of Fate and don’t worry about the vanished comments. Anyhow, it’s rare but it happens.

    Given some of my comments, I don’t know if that’s a WordPress feature or a bug ;o)

  194. ossqss says:

    @HR, as policy, I use a word or other word-processing (even notepad) program to configure and copy/paste a post from. If it fails, I just paste it again. Keeps it simple an lessens the frustration of a failed post afterwards. Makes editing easier too :-)

  195. H.R. says:

    @Another Ian – That video of George Floyd is priceless. Had me LMAO!

    Somebody didn’t do a very good job of scrubbing the interwebby-thingy of all things negative about St. George.
    I mentioned your find to Mrs. H.R. She got a chuckle out of it even though she hasn’t seen the video yet.

    She may or may not watch it, A I, but IIRC, E.M. mentioned that Mrs. E.M. is much the same. She doesn’t read E.M.s postings all that much and will read certain comments when pointedly pointed to them by E.M. (Did I get that right, E.M. or does the Mrs. read here more than I thought? Correct me if I picked up the wrong impression over the years.)
    P.S. The Mrs. read a little bit more here when she was a professional IT geek, particularly E.M.’s security related postings. After her stroke and disability retirement, she didn’t take as much interest here.

    She’s happy I’ve found some nice playmates and she has met Ossqss and likes him. No pushback from her when I’m in Florida and have a chance to get with Ossqss. She listens up when Ossqss has some Florida-specific info he feeds me when we are down in Florida. Native drums and all that.

    Sent me off with a smile on her face when I met up with Rhoda, Ossqss, and E.M. in Lakeland back in what… January 2019?… for a Chiefio’s Blog Gala and Dodgy Proceedings.

    Mrs. H.R. is just not a Chiefio Blog denizen by any stretch, but she does half-listen to what’s going on here.

    So long as I’ve breeched the topic, anybody else’s spouses or significant others in about the same boat as Mrs. H.R.?

  196. Another Ian says:

    “Politics Has Hurt Science, COVID-19 May Have Killed It”


  197. H.R. says:

    Well, we’ve been discussing it here for years (early man is w-ay-a-a earlier everywhere than the “orthodoxy” accounts and probably a bit more tech savvy than is given credit for, and that’s years ago here on this blog, as I recall our discussions.

    (Want to be on the leading edge? Read the Chiefio’s blog, si?)

    Here’s a link. Easy ‘No Thanks’ click when you get there and that bypasses to the article.

    @E.M. – A fun thread here – when you get a round tuit – would blog post maybebe “What did we know and when did we know it and who the He!! is digging up my little raised bed garden?” (G-damn chipmunks, that’s who)

    I am convinced at we had some fairly sophisticated Electrical and Mechanical Engineers that were many, many centuries along the road to where technical society is now.

  198. E.M.Smith says:


    You are correct. Unless pointed at something (with supervision….) none of my family members seem to think it worth reading anything I write. Oh Well. Spouse mostly does Disney Stuff. Kids in their own interest puddles.

    FWIW, I think the Vedas are accurate in their descriptions of a prior advanced technical civilization. The sudden rise of sea levels as the Ice Age Glacial ended disrupted it all, but then Comet Enke break up had periodic catastrophic impacts on Earth. The biggest chunk being the Younger Dryas event that caused extinction of Americas megafauna, the Clovis people, and extinguished civilization in most of the world. And sent a wall of slushy ice mud over the grazing mammoths wiping them out too.


    All our history is just recounting the recovery from ruin.

    Egypt did well as it was furthest from the impact effects. They had to abandon what is now the Sahara (so radar shows roads and city ruins under the sand) but was lush in the past, and in their restart, decided to write in all their stones. Older 10 kyr or more stones in Egypt are plain…

    The Indus culture was flooded (ruins look to be a few hundred feet under the ocean…) but the vedas survived. It is possible they had aircraft, atomic bombs, and lasers. The vedas describe them. The tech described can be seen as possible. Either that, or the authors were clairvoyant…

    The existance of nearly identical megalithic stucture globally, all of extreme age, made using geopolymer methods IMHO, also speaks to advanced chemical tech and global communications.

    I think the population was dramatically lower, and advanced tech was in more isolated pockets, so little physical evidence has survived to be found. Unlike us, where we do giant earth moving and mining operations that mark the place a lot. They did more with stones. Then any wood, fabric, and similar goods decay away. Ceramics are just evidence of primative tech and metals got reused.

    Any good evidence is under hundreds of feet of water. What we can find is what got rebuilt 500 feet up the hills in the wilderness during the ocean rise.

  199. Compu Gator says:

    Our leader and various readers of the Chiefio blog might wish to avail themselves of these free proportional fonts, on which I’ve relied since Windows 98 was the dominant PC o.s.:

    • “Unicode Fonts for Ancient Scripts” (UFAS),  by George Douros, a scholar residing in Greece. He’s dramatically expanded his previous development of multiple fonts, now including Open Type features, e.g.: “stylistc alternates“.  As before, he’s releasing the fonts “free ⟨when⟩ strictly for personal, non-commercial use, available under the general UFAS licence”: https://dn-works.com/ufas/ [*].

    Perhaps see Douros’ “samples” first, altho’ his leading with Open Type technical features might put off some readers, because I know jolly well that many of them will only be interested in becoming able to display the characters for the latest pictographs, dingbats, and emoticons (so they’ll want only “Symbola”).

        ◾ samples, version 13.00, March 2020:
        For contents, see https://dn-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/UFAS-Docs/Samples.pdf.

        ◾ Aegean, version 13.00, March 2020:
        For contents, see https://dn-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/UFAS-Docs/Aegean.pdf.
        Download: https://dn-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/UFAS-Fonts/Aegean.zip.

        ◾ Symbola, version 13.00, March 2020.
        For contents, see https://dn-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/UFAS-Docs/Symbola.pdf.
       Download:  https://dn-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/UFAS-Fonts/Symbola.zip.

    In recent years, as Unicode kept rolling along thro’ new versions, specifying more & more new characters, the scarcity or absence of updates to Douros’ fonts caused me to fear that his fonts were headed for abandonware status. I have no inside knowledge, but it’s now clear that his energy had been refreshed. He’s releasing the product of what’s gotta be several years spent heavily dedicated to catching up with Unicode, adding new characters that’ve I’ve been missing.

    His fonts now provide the characters for their intended purposes that correspond to Unicode ver. 13, which is the current one (or nearly so). By “intended purposes”,  I mean the compilation of characters suggested by the name of the font, altho’ there is some overlap, e.g.:
    • Characters for ancient languages, e.g.: ‘Old Italic’ (incl. Etruscan), Carian, and Lydian (but not, e.g.: Cyrillic) will be in “Aegean”.
    • Don’t expect to find, e.g.: ‘Tech. Symbols’ (incl. all APL-language characters), sets of math ‘Operators’ or ‘Symbols’, ‘Alchemical Syms.’, or emoticons in “Aegean”; those will be in “Symbola”.
    • Characters for Cyrillic (e.g., my ‘G’-like capital letter that corresponds to a ‘Q’) are actually in “Symbola” (I did warn that there is overlap).

    Note *: Douros’ main page was http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/ for many years. That connection made, I remain mystified by his top-of-page photo at that URL: How a person so meticulous about ancient languages and epigraphy would display a photo that so obviously blew its horizontal alignment. If there’s supposed to be some artistic merit in doing so, it sure escapes me.

  200. E.M.Smith says:

    Looks to me like they wanted the ocean to be a wedge, and don’t care about the skyline being sloped.

  201. Another Ian says:

    “St. Louis Prosecutor’s Office Busted Altering Evidence; Reassembled Non-Operable McCloskey Pistol To Classify As Lethal”


  202. jim2 says:

    I see the Douros photo as a work of art. Three similarly-sized, natural triangles. Nice color combination at that.

  203. Another Ian says:

    Make your own medieval city


    Looks like it needs some work – like a wall and a trebochet or two

    Via SDA Friday list

  204. Another Ian says:

    “The old refrain”

    “AT&T help”


    And comments

  205. Another Ian says:

    “It Looks Like the Czech Republic Might Get a Second Amendment ”


  206. A C Osborn says:

    COVID-19 second waves.
    It is apparent that many countries are having second waves of new daily infections, what is odd is that they all appear to be starting at the same time around the 22nd of June onwards.
    Was there another source of spreading or is this just the relaxtion of controls?
    Why haven’t all the countries that had it under control also suffered the second wave?

  207. jim2 says:

    I avoid AT&T like the plague – which is what it is.

  208. E.M.Smith says:

    Relaxation of controls, onset of “protest” riots, and arrival of widespread cheap testing finding / identifying low symptom cases. All happened about the same time. All increase case counts.

    Note that deaths are not rising to the same degree. We are finding healthy cases and Improved treatments for really sick cases.

    Then season that with people getting sloppy after months of this crap…. my technique is worse now. Often don’t use gloves. Alcohol wash a sometimes thing. Mask more administrative than applied to perfection. Etc. I’m also going out a lot more as cabin fever starts making the feet itch (and I’m exceptionally able to tolerate living in a box for months per NASA, so others will be much more antsy).

  209. H.R. says:

    Well, I’m getting antsy.

    Iff’n y’all haven’t noticed the void, I haven’t mentioned fishing much in my comments. I haven’t been fishing since the first week in June, and that was just doing some catfishing where I didn’t have to cast much.

    My casting arm and shoulder has been hurting too much. I was even complaining about the pain when visiting with Ossqss this Winter. It was hard for me to cock that high velocity pellet gun I brought down for some backyard shooting with Ossqss, and I mentioned the problem to him. It didn’t stop me from fishing most days while I was in Florida, but it was painful.

    In June, I cut out fishing altogether hoping the arm would heal up. I finally decided it wasn’t healing – getting worse as a matter of fact – and decided to see a specialist.

    Wednesday (7/22), I met with the Doc for his reading of the MRI he ordered. Yup, torn rotator cuff, which I suspected, AND the tendon at the top of the bicep had broken away about 1.5 cm from the attachment point. I wasn’t expecting that. That’s the source of all the shooting pains in the arm.

    He said if I was younger I could just live with the pain and it all might eventually heal up… sorta. But given my age, he said there was no real hope of the partial healing, so he recommended surgery.

    I’ll take that advice. He gave me a choice of two surgeons in the practice who do nothing but shoulders or I could go find someone else if I wanted. I took one of the all-shoulders-all-of-the-time guys. The good news is it is now all arthroscopic and outpatient for that surgery. They won’t be tearing up more than they will fix like they did in the old days.

    I don’t have the surgery scheduled yet, just a pre-op meeting in early August. That’s when the surgery will be scheduled. There’s about a one month recovery time from the surgery, so I should be back in the fishing business in time for the Fall feeding frenzy.

    Sooooo… the regulars here, given my usual frequent babbling about fishing, can pretty well imagine how stir crazy I am.

    I am keeping busy in the basement shop. There are things I can make that don’t tweak my arm in bad ways. I’ve made some rustic, somewhat medieval weapons that are wall hangers; a very cool looking large knife from a saw blade, a war hammer using a railroad spike, a couple of 20″ fishing Billy clubs with lead-weighted ends that are useful for calming down big toothy saltwater fish that are flopping around… and they could be useful in other situations, if you know what I mean ;o) I’ve also restored some tools from the mid-1800s that I had lying about and hung them on the wall.

    Right now, I’m finishing up on a cigar box guitar (CBGs, they are called). I’m fretting it as a dulcimer, though. I might make a cigar box dulcimer down the road after I have finished making all my mistakes on this first CBG.

    Antsy. I’m definitely antsy :o)

  210. cdquarles says:

    God Bless you H. R.

    In other news, here is a paper discussing influenza transmission. It is a bit old and the numbers are small, has some unusual definitions and uses p-values: https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1003194&type=printable.

  211. ossqss says:

    @HR, well that explains the high and right aiming during the range activities. I was attributing it to the numerous curls done at the lodge and range, but now we know. Get well soon HR!

    PS, I still have your steel squirrel, albeit, not is as good of shape as it was :-)

  212. E.M.Smith says:

    Spouse had the rotator cuff thing. Turned out OK but reinjury risk is high.

    Do what the Dr. says, do your physical therapy (gentle stretching & strengthening).

    I suggest learning to cast off hand. It isn’t hard, is useful around bushes on the “wrong” side anyway, and gives a new little challenge to increase interest.

    I also have speculated that growth hormone from using one set of muscles diffuses through the body so helps fix other damage too. Why exercise generally improves health, IMHO. So to generally improve healing and strength, use what works. I.e. just hiking to the lake and back not only improves your legs, but arms too. That’s my theory anyway :-)

    FWIW, I like to just play with hand lines sometimes. Part of that prepper gear thing. It is surprising how well you can do short casts just with wrist motion spinning a circle at your side. Yeah, it is different, but it’s fishing and fun!

    Finally, for damage to cartilage and tendons: pain means don’t do that even if it takes months to heal. Adhesions may need breaking by a therapist, and at some point the P.T. will give the go ahead for uncomfortable exercises, but until then, making it worse by “pushing through it” is not a good idea.

    Then you could always get a Bait Cannon:



    Yes, it’s a real thing, and yes I want one even without any use for it :-) Heck, just saying “I’m loading up my cannon to go fishing” and watching folks heads turn and eyes get large would be worth it!

  213. E.M.Smith says:

    Interesting DIY one, though I’d use an electric pump and split molds..

  214. cdquarles says:

    Rotator cuff tears, ugh. I had my right shoulder do that playing with my kids a long time ago. It crackles at times still, though pain’s rare.

  215. H.R. says:

    @E.M. – The fishing cannon is a good idea. I have a collapsible tripod laying around and various pipes and tubes. Since catfishing is “throw it out and wait” one of those would put me back in business.

    It just recently occurred to me that most of my spinning reels – cast right-handed and reel with left hand – are reversible, I had considered switching the handle and casting left-handed and reeling right-handed. There’s no strain on the tears that way.

    But… I’ll be looking into that fishing cannon, even for use with a good, healed up arm. A cannon would be a great way to get you out past the break when surf fishing.

  216. H.R. says:

    Oh wait! My kid left his paintball stuff in my basement. I’ve got valves and air tanks and trigger mechanisms….

    I better get busy!

  217. E.M.Smith says:


    Now you’ve done it… you got me thinking:

    How big would a bait casting trebuchet be? Hmmm…..

    Golfball about 100 ft and fits in a pickup truck with room for everything else, easily. IMHO, with a bit better lever arm and big water bucket weight, you could get further. Made of aluminum would be lighter.


  218. ossqss says:

    I see a potato gun fishing show in the near future :-)

    To heck with the hand pump. Just sayin>

  219. E.M.Smith says:

    Pretty simple DIY one:


    Theres a bunch of others, from hand held to wheel mounted and more on YouTube.

  220. A C Osborn says:

    H.R. says: 24 July 2020 at 3:51 pm
    ” It was hard for me to cock that high velocity pellet gun I brought down for some backyard shooting with Ossqss”.
    If it hasn’t already got one put a moderator on it, that will give you another few inches of leverage.

  221. Another Ian says:

    “Democrats’ Green New Deal would make US reliance on China much worse”


  222. Another Ian says:

    “Shaping the Evidence to Fit the Narrative”


    And comments, particularly ” Y. Knott July 24, 2020 at 11:37 am “

  223. philjourdan says:

    Sorry to hear about the rotator Cuff HR. Listen to the doctor and you will be casting in style in no time!

  224. Another Ian says:

    More shifting sand

    “Verizon Sheds 81,000 Pay TV Customers as Cord-Cutting Escalates”


  225. E.M.Smith says:

    @Another Ian:

    Per Verizon: they bought Huffington Post just in time for Huff ‘n Puff to hit the ditch. Then blocked a texting program by Trump, with a lame claim of regulatory concerns. In the quote from them they say:
    “We have embraced, engaged in, and responded to important social movements happening throughout the world, and will continue to be at the forefront of initiatives that move the world forward for everyone.”

    I.E. they are busy being woke. So no surprise the going broke part has started to kick in.

    I have a verizon cell phone. It is decent service, but three times now they said 3G was going to be discontinued and buy a new phone. I haven’t, and despite a temporary service degradation during the last claim, it still works…

    Whenever 3G is shut off, or the phone dies, I’m not renewing with them.

    Don’t know who it will be, since AT&T is out (for being worse) and the tier below those 2 keeps having merger committed on the occupants, but likely T-Mobile / Sprint or whatever.

    Oddly, I’ve been rather happy with my burner phone and mystery meat service plan…. buy a card at the drug store from time to time to add minutes…. only have to deal with a web page or send a text via the phone to load the minutes.

  226. Power Grab says:

    I have another report about the tonic water and smoked oysters.

    I generally try to avoid succumbing to fear. It’s one of my top priorities. But a week or two ago, a piece of news got my wheels spinning. “They” might force me to be tested. It’s because of where I live.

    It was bothering me so much that I couldn’t make any progress on my projects at work. Then I decided to try a dose of my tonic water and smoked oysters.

    It really did the trick! It only took about 10 or 15 minutes for relief to come.

    Looking back, I think the zinc helped because, when you’re stressing out, you’re depleting zinc. You’ve heard of “zinc spots” on fingernails resulting from a period of high stress, right? Well, maybe having low zinc makes stress worse? So replenishing zinc helps keep stress at bay?

    It’s something I’m going to try to keep in mind.

    I’m hesitant to use up my supplies on an ongoing basis, but if I feel the need, I think I’ll see how many things it helps. Maybe if I have to get tested, I’ll have enough advance notice to take the tonic water and zinc every day for a few days ahead of time. Maybe it’ll keep me from having detectable exosomes…

    I’m already taking D3 and several types of probiotics every day.

    Let your food be your medicine, and let your medicine be your food.

  227. philjourdan says:

    @Power Grab – you do not eat Smoked Oysters and drink tonic water (with a splash of gin) regularly? Ah you are missing out! :-)

    I’ll drink to that!

  228. H.R. says:

    Is tonic water hard to come by in your neck of the woods, Power Grab? I’m kind of getting that vibe from your post.

    If so, that’s a shame.

    I can get all the 1 liter bottles of diet tonic water I want (or regular, but I have to avoid the sugar). The 1 liter bottles are 69¢ a bottle and the 2 liter bottles are 99¢. That’s the house brand, mind you, but who could tell the difference between brands when it is all so tart?

    I hope I hope tonic water is not too scarce for you. I front-loaded the quinine taking in about 500 +/- mg the first two weeks. Then I’ve settled in to maintenance mode at 200 mg +/- per week, which is a matter of swilling down 3 or 4 of the 1 liter bottles at 83 mg per liter.

  229. cdquarles says:

    Best overall article I’ve seen to date, by any medic: https://www.conservativereview.com/news/covid-19-herd-immunity-without-vaccination-teaching-modern-vaccine-dogma-old-tricks/. It is *way* too late for quarantines, et. al.; beyond protecting the most vulnerable.

  230. H.R. says:

    cdquarles: “It is *way* too late for quarantines, et. al.; beyond protecting the most vulnerable.”

    Preach it, brother!

    Besides, there are too many preventatives and effective treatments, even for the later stages, to worry about the Chinese Virus.

    Y’all hit up your local Tractor Supply for some Ivermectin, drink your tonic and pop some zinc, get your share of vitamin D, wash your hands and don’t touch your face, and you are golden.

    If you are someone who has some serious immune issues or other high risk group, mask up, glove up, and limit your outside excursions.

  231. Power Grab says:

    @ philjourdan: No, I haven’t been taking tonic water and eating smoked oysters at all until this spring/summer. I’m not a drinker for the most part. They told me at one party that they were giving me “sloe gin and Coke”. I’m not sure that’s all that was in the glass. Longish story. Not telling it now. I’ll just say that at that party happened one of the weirdest things I ever experienced. I think I wasn’t supposed to remember it, but I do. Vividly.

    I prefer to save my calories for something like chocolate or cookies or ice cream. But lately the tonic water and oysters come to mind as a “snack” that could hit the spot. I’m not quite craving it like I do cashews, but it’s probably better for me than some typical snacks. When you work 12-16 hours a day, you don’t have a lot of choice about food.

    Once in a blue moon I might get a bottle of locally-produced wine at a craft sale. It takes me a while to drink it. Both my grandfathers were alcoholics, so I haven’t let my offspring see me drink even that rare bottle of wine. Offspring is of legal age now, but early on I let it be known that we don’t have the wherewithal to afford jail and lawyers and such to deal with underage drinking, etc.

    @ HR: No, it’s not hard to come by. I’ve been getting it at the grocery stores. I’m just treating it like medicine. I avoid medicine unless there’s a legitimate need for it. I don’t believe in treating a number. So many of them have troublesome side effects that often require the addition of more medicines. I don’t want to get on that merry-go-round.

    But you’re treating it as a prophylactic? Do you keep an eye out for any symptoms that it might trigger? How long have you been using it that way? I guess I’m tending to be cautious because the HCQ triggered such conflict (even though I’ve read enough now that I think it doesn’t deserve to be restricted or treated like an evil poison). Oh, and you have to go to a doctor to get a prescription…then you have to get the pharmacy to sell it to you…that’s why I chose to use tonic water with its quinine. And oysters.

    I’ve never taken recreational drugs. But I hear those who do tend to build up a tolerance to them and end up having to take more to get the same effect.

    @ Everyone: Is anyone else taking HCQ or quinine or Ivermectin as a prophylactic? With or without zinc? Extra vitamin D? C? If you started doing that this year, has it seemed helpful for any other conditions? I’m kind of surprised at the variety of ailments they use HCQ and its predecessors for.

    I am curious now about whether the quinine/zinc would help me pass a screening test or antibody test. But, truth be told, I’d rather skip all that.

    From what I can tell, the vitamin D and probiotics do help prevent respiratory symptoms, as well as digestive symptoms.

  232. H.R. says:

    @Power Grab – I did consult with my doctor before starting in on the tonic water + zinc, just to make sure it was OK for me based on my medical history and didn’t interact with anything I was taking.

    I told her I was taking them as a preventative for the Kung Flu. At that time, she couldn’t officially endorse taking it, but she definitely gave me a **wink, wink, go for it** stamp of approval.

    As for vitamins D and C, I, and I believe many others here, started adding them in during the Fall of the prior year’s flu season. That would be in 2018 IIRC and maybe earlier as the topic of nutrition and supplements has come up a few times here over the years.

  233. jim2 says:

    The HCQ kerfuffle was all political. You have to get it from a Dr., so what the US President says shouldn’t be a factor in the decision to take it or not. But, no, HCQ was demonized in the states by the media and liberal doctors. Asswipes all as far as I’m concerned.

  234. cdquarles says:

    This is the best cross-reactive immunity paper that I’ve seen so far: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.14.095414v2.full.pdf. It mentions IgA!

    End Lockdowns Now! They’re useless at this point. Stop the Insanity Now!

  235. H.R. says:

    @jim2 – In the Spring you said you bought the cinchona bark for the quinine. How’d that work out?

    Was it hard to figure the dose of quinine you were getting out of it? Did the taste make you scrunch up your face as steam came out of your ears?

    I assume you made a tea out of the bark, but were there other ways to ingest it, like cinchona cookies?

    Howz about a ground report? We know you got it but never heard “the rrrest of the story.”

  236. jim2 says:

    It is in capsules, so I just took those. I took the cinchona bark for about a week just after I got it, but then decided to wait until I got symptoms. That is difficult as I have hey fever and asthma, so I always have something like some of the symptoms. I took it for a few day a few days ago due to more noticeable tightness in my chest, but that passed after a couple of days, so I stopped.

    I also have the apple flavored ivermectin in case things get really bad.

    I do take C, zinc, and D3. So far, so good.

  237. H.R. says:

    Thanks for the ground report, jim2. We’re all caught up with how that went with you now and it appears you are in good shape.

  238. philjourdan says:

    @Power Grab – completely understand about your aversion based upon family history. Some in mine as well.

    But I actually like just tonic water. When I am the designated drive (we go to an event for my wife’s company) that is all I drink. Just tonic water. I am not diabetic, so do the regular. But it is an acquired taste (most can’t stand it- too bitter).

    And if it comes from the sea and has a shell, I will eat it! Abalone is illegal in the US due to its status as endangered, but not in Mexico. I had some when I was down there one year. Eh??? Not worth endangering it any more. It was not bad, just not remarkable.

  239. Another Ian says:

    “Mystery Mislabeled Seed Packets from China Being Received in Utah and Virginia”


  240. E.M.Smith says:


    I like the taste of tonic water w or w/o gin. But w/ gin is better :-) it takes a few liters to get a too high dose (by design…) so drink more than you want, and still be fine.

    Prophylactic is just vit-D, vit-C, zink, and isolation. I have a jug of ivermectin drench (and have used it for other things pre Covid – it is incredibly benign.)

    I love Oyster snd Clam dishes and eat them about once every other week; Covid or not.

    Sloe Gin… I have a story about that…. maybe after another whiskey….

  241. philjourdan says:

    Sloe Gin EM? We are waiting.

    And yes, the curse of the Jews is they are not allowed to partake in pork (bacon) or shell fish! My heart goes out to them. But then when the Rabbi was talking to the priest about the ham sandwich and the priest’s taboo………

  242. Power Grab says:

    @ HR: I like your doctor. ;-) Your conversation with her reminds me my conversation with the anesthesiologist shortly before my surgery. He comes in, rolling his cart-and-laptop, draws up a chair and asks what I’m taking. I handed him my single-spaced, typewritten full page of stuff. He types it in for at least 15 minutes. When he stops, he says he can’t find any research that covers what would happen when they combine what I’m taking with what they plan to use on me. The he says I can just keep taking everything until the day of surgery. He didn’t say so, but I suspected they would going to put me down as an experiment.

    @ PhilJourdan: I got to be the designated driver while on a business trip once. My colleague must have scoped me out as a teetotaler, even though we never talked about drinking. I was just chilling in my room when he called me on the room phone. He said he and some friends wanted to go to a tourist trap in a nearby town, and they wanted me to serve as the designated driver. No problem. The thing liked most about the trip was that the tourist trap was a street in a town that I had read about in a novel not long before. It was deja vu to walk down that little street even though I hadn’t been there or seen it before. But the description from the book matched it quite well!

    @ EM: Sloe gin story? Curious minds want to know….

  243. ossqss says:

    I saw this vid earlier and found it relevant after months of such.

  244. cdquarles says:

    Another good article about covid: https://uncoverdc.com/2020/04/07/was-the-covid-19-test-meant-to-detect-a-virus/. Absolutely correct. The PCR method amplifies segments of nucleic acids. There is no such thing as a specific string, especially when it is short.

    The virology lab I walked past, from time to time, did ultracentrifugation to purify samples. I’ve done this with lipoproteins. I’ve done thin layer chromatography to separate chemicals. So, I do find it shocking if they never did that with HIV samples (this was before PCR, which came about 10 years later). I’ve also done electron microscopy. This was before they did atomic/electron force microscopy. My step daughter did a school science project (went to state!) using PCR and Western Blots. Sloppy technique ruins it.

  245. Pingback: W.O.O.D. – 27 July 2020 | Musings from the Chiefio

  246. philjourdan says:

    @Power Grab – you know the story. Every gin joint in town is playing our song! :-)

    Well your DD is at least interesting, Mine is just love. Glad you got a good drive out of it! Sounds like it was a win-win.

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