I’ve prepared, well in advance. I’m not worried about me.
I’ve waited for the CDC and the W.H.O. to “catch up”. They still haven’t.
I’ve waited for the deaths to hit the 5 figure mark to have folks “catch clue”, they haven’t.
I’ve waited for our political “leaders” to stop reactively following and proactively lead. They have not.
It is time to stop waiting.
Asymptomatic Spread
This is an absolutely critical and primary point that drives all other necessary behaviour.
We know this virus spread asymptomatically. About 30% of cases tested in South Korea were asymptomatic. The video below cites a study that found 86% of cases were spread asymptomatically. Let that sink in a moment. Most of the new cases are coming from that smaller portion of folks who have no symptoms. Checking temperatures and asking folks how they feel will NOT stop this. It is ESSENTIAL to stop asymptomatic spreading. The W.H.O. and CDC advice to not test folks with minor symptoms is not only wrong, it completely ignores the asymptomatic transmission path that is THE largest part of the problem. The W.H.O. and CDC advice to NOT have people wear masks ignores THE MAJOR PATH OF INFECTION, the asymptomatic spreader.
As long as asymptomatic spreading is not address, the exponential growth WILL continue and all other attempts at mitigation and preparation will be swamped by the exponential growth. We’ve seen that in Italy and New York and Spain already.
Today in Los Angeles, 4 grocery store workers tested positive for Covid-19. That means they DO have symptoms or they would not have been tested. Now, not only were they infective for several days before they got tested, but their number implies at least one more fully asymptomatic person (and possibly 2) are still in the store and “sharing”. How many hundred people a day are in spitting distance of the register clerk? How about their food? In that context, any spreader will act as a superspreader. With a mask on them, they would be spreading far far less. Mask and gloves and glasses even better. Put the same gear on the customer and the clerk is spared, so then does not turn into a superspreader in the first place.
Which costs more, 4 masks, or 100 people infected, 20 in the hospital, 5 in the ICU and one dead?
Grocery store clerks do not need N95 masks, a simple cloth mask and gardening gloves are enough to slow spreading dramatically.
Masks are not to stop YOU from getting the disease (though they do help a lot even if you are unfamiliar with how to use them); they are to STOP THE SPREADING by folks with the disease. Not just their spit “droplets” in your face, but all the places they fall and form fomites (spots of infection) on things like keypads and counters. (And cans of beans…)
The W.H.O. and CDC are lying to you. They are saying “These are not the masks you are looking for” because they want to reserve them for medical staff. That is both stupid and short sighted. One medical staff will need to use dozens of masks to treat one patient. Standard protocol is to change every time you move to a new patient, and again when you return. A single mask on an infected checkout clerk can prevent 100 patients. PREVENTION is more important that trying to catch up with exponential growth of cases later. You WILL lose the exponential race and you WILL have no PPE left for the medical staff in short order if you play that game long enough.
“Social Distancing” is a very poor replacement for a mask. We know that the virus can travel as far as 4.5 meters, or about 15 feet, as an aerosol and infect another passenger as that was demonstrated in a bus in China (complete video record from the police state). Better than “Social distancing” would be a face mask, even a simple surgical mask or even a bandanna over the face, and “social distancing”.
DIY Masks
Masks Work. EVERY country that has beaten back the virus has had a policy of “everyone wears a mask”. Often just a simple surgical mask. Sometimes KN95 masks (near as I can tell, no valve). Rarely N95 quality. This says even minor mask quality can be highly valuable in “flattening the curve”.
Home sewn masks can be up to N85 using a section of vacuum cleaner bag as an insert, just a little less than N95 and much better than surgical masks. These are not hard to make and can be washed and reused, or heat kill the virus particles with a 30 minute soak in an over 170 F degree oven (i.e. just over warm).
There are many examples and directions on the internet. Even just a folded bandanna, like in the old Western Movies, helps. The CDC has a DIY design, but it is primitive and ugly in comparison to those designed by We The People (and don’t work as well either…)
Examples:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MHyA5JAUCmUqvm1r_zEc6K3PwvI2tbqw/view
This one complains about ad blockers, but is IMHO better, and includes the pattern:
https://hellosewing.com/face-mask-sewing-pattern/
Do they work?
Abstract
This study examined homemade masks as an alternative to commercial face masks. Several household materials were evaluated for the capacity to block bacterial and viral aerosols. Twenty-one healthy volunteers made their own face masks from cotton t-shirts; the masks were then tested for fit. The number of microorganisms isolated from coughs of healthy volunteers wearing their homemade mask, a surgical mask, or no mask was compared using several air-sampling techniques. The median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask. Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection. (Disaster Med Public Health Preparedness. 2013;0:1-6).
That’s about the most trivial mask you can make, just cotton T-shirts. No vacuum cleaner bag insert. No waterproof facing material. (One lady wanted a water proof outer layer so used an old umbrella for the cloth for the outer layer). In other tests, the better fitting patterns (such as linked above) with nose wire and filter insert, scored N85.
So no excuse. Buy, beg, borrow or make a mask. Get some “shop glasses” and some gloves (garden rubber gloves work well as do dish gloves, but I’ve got a box of regular latex gloves from the auto parts store). Glove up, glasses on, and mask makes you ready to face the world. Don’t leave home without them. And do learn how to fit the mask (bend wire to nose shape), and remove your gear without spreading anything from the outer surface to your skin or face. It isn’t hard, but does take some care:
Cleaning a DIY mask can be as simple as washing in hot water and soap, but for quicker re-use, you can put it in a paper bag in an oven heated to over 170 F for 1/2 hour.
As soon as I’ve left the store and I’m back at the car, I remove my gear and wash with rubbing alcohol. I keep a pint jar in my ‘car bag”. So PPE off (and into it’s bag) and then immediately pour a bit of alcohol into the cupped hand and rub them together. Then wait for it to evaporate. I do this over a paper towel to catch the dribbles, and then use it to wipe down my shop glasses. When I get home, shoes stay on the porch and shirt / pants into the washer. Hands again washed with hot water and soap before new outer layer goes on…
Proactive not Reactive
Interviews with Governors of States today had them all fretting over getting thousands of ventilators. Why not avoid the need for the ventilators in the first place? Have anyone in a service position wear a mask. Have the customers wear a mask. IF, despite that, some of them get sick, treat them early and aggressively with hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin that has been shown in about 500 patients to result in zero intubations.
Preamble ends and content begins at about 1:40 in:
There is nothing so useless to an upper executive sort as a report that says “I need this much $$$ to prevent a problem nobody sees”. Almost as useless is one that says “I did these things, that stopped this particular attack, that nobody saw”. Upper Management LOVES the catastrophe where they can grandstand, blame it on someone else, and can be shown “leading the charge” in reacting to it.
Watching various Governors press conferences today, that was what they all did. Not One said anything at all about prevention other than a request for better “social distancing”. Nothing on decontaminating surfaces. Nothing on stopping flights or hard quarantine of hard hit areas. In fact. Cuomo of New York threatened to sue Rhode Island for doing the right thing and finding and informing New York Refugees that they need to self isolate and quarantine for 14 days.
So, necessary conclusion: Many, if not all, Governors of States will be REACTIVE not PROACTIVE and will be most focused on how to “never let a crisis go to waste” as opposed to “crisis kept away”. It will be up to the individual Counties, Cities, and individuals to keep the crisis from their door.
It is essential to be PROACTIVE, not just reactive. This is an exponential curve, driven by unseen asymptomatic spreading, and it has a 2 to 3 week lag time from the damage starting to your being aware of that damage. By Definition, you will always be 1/2 to a full month behind in your reactions. That is lethal. Literally.
Instead, asses the opponent. Figure out what they were doing 3 weeks ago, and react to that, even while right now you act to prevent it doing anything more.
How?
Individual Actions
While the whole hand sterilizer and hand washing thing is nice and all, the best thing you can do is to avoid the need. Do not go out and contact any person or surface if you can avoid it. Couch Potato is King! This is your moment. Pop a can and sit on the sofa and binge watch 8 seasons of your favourite show. Then do it again.
It isn’t “hoarding”, it is “reducing my exposures”. IF you have not already laid in a month or two of supplies, next time you go shopping, try to get as close to one month worth as you can. Buying one a month instead of one a week cuts to 1/4 your exposures to potentially superspreader clerks and other customers. Shop at the lowest occupancy hours.
IF you must go out: Wear a mask, glasses or goggles, gloves, and something you can immediately wash when you get home. When you get home, take the kit off (and put it somewhere you can decontaminate), and go take a hot soapy shower. Wash your clothes, spray sanitizer of some sort on your shoes, and either dispose / replace your mask and gloves or sanitize them. (Those that are heat proof can be put in a paper bad in the oven on the lowest setting under 200 F for an hour, or if water proof washed with alcohol).
The first time you are the only person covered in kit it is a bit uncomfortable as people look at you oddly. By the end of that outing you realize it is because they are worried and you are not, then you become comfortable.
I take 2000 IU of Vitamin D, 2000 mg of Vit C, some Vit E, and a zinc tablet. Why? They all increase immune function and it’s decent odds they will reduce the severity of any disease if all else fails.
States & Counties & Cities (oh my!)
THE first step is “reduce inbound cases”. While a hard border with the National Guard would be best, anything you can do along that line is a help. What attractions do you have? Shut them down. Beaches, theatres, gambling, conventions, sporting events, coin collector meetings, whatever. While this is mostly in place already, keep it in mind when things “come off”.
Model good behaviour. Here we have all these press meetings and not a single mask in sight. Barely “social distancing” on the dais from the assemble staff. We were treated to the spectacle of Boris Johnson having the group greet right up until almost the end and now he is in isolation with Covid-19 infection and his staff is having Pressers with a video monitory press core and the podiums all 2 meters apart. Late AND sorry? Yet still no masks…
So hold your pressers with mask on, gloves on, and someone on film clearly decontaminating podium and microphone.
STOP BEING JUST REACTIVE.
Look at what WILL BE in 3 weeks, then figure out how to stop that. Tell the folks to do that thing, not just “wash up and fart at your neighbour”.
Spend at least as much time asking “How can we avoid needing ventilators?” as asking “How do I get exponentially more?”
Ask “What antiviral drugs have been tested and which of them stop folks from needing ventilators?”.
Ask “how much would requiring some kind of mask in public reduce infection rates?”. And if the answer is “We don’t know”, then you know where your blind spot is, now don’t you?
Run PSAs on how to make n85 masks from drapes, T-shirts, pillow cases, old umbrellas, and vacuum cleaner bags (all have in fact been used to good effect).
Test Test TEST! Not just folks with symptoms. Their family, and friends, co-workers, customers. A mile circle around where they live and work. FIND those asymptomatic spreaders and get them out of the pool. Each one of them is worth about 100 hospital beds, 20 ICU beds and their ventilators, and one funeral.
Look at the places that have been successful. Model on them. What do they all have in common? MASKS. Widespread testing. Contact tracing. Hard quarantines.
Then, remember that it is important to “know your enemy”. This Dr. knows it well and is willing to tell you about it:
.
And for God’s Sake find a way to put masks on all the checkout clerks at any stores you leave open and on all the folks preparing and delivering food and other packages to homes.
For Everyone: Do not trust China
They lied from the start. Told us (and the W.H.O.) it was not human to human transmissible while ordering their client company / agents to hoover up all medical supplies they could world wide; and now they are shipping defective PPE Personal Protective Equipment to us. They are NOT your friends. They are actively acting like an enemy in a socio-economic war.
I bought 3 N95 masks about a month ago at the local Home Depot. I was told that I was lucky to get them (shelf almost empty) as a Chinese guy had come in and bought all they had. This is a global action on their part to remove protective equipment from us and send it to China. Now, their “help” is defective. Think about it.
If you are a person using a Chinese respirator, validate that the valve works, please. Verify your gear.
Includes interesting video from India along with coverage of nations who have received and returned defective PPE product and testing kits from China:
.
In Conclusion
Until you have PSA Public Service Announcements telling you to wear a mask, and the grocery clerk is wearing mask (and hopefully glasses) AND the regular press reports for the President and Governors are modeling “social distancing”, shared surface decontamination, and masks: You are NOT being protected by Government above you, and it is up to you to protect yourself.
Musings from the Chiefio 
Brilliant roundup, thanks EM.
A question for all, does anyone know if Microwaves kill Viruses?
Thanks EM !
I think you covered it all.
But there are lots of stupid people out there who will ignore you just like they do JoNova !
According to Lubos Motl Slovakia and Bosnia-Herzegovina have followed the Czech mandatory masks for a week or so.
Both have low serious and death rates.
But Slovakia didn’t have their first registered case until 6th of March and Bosnia-Herzegovina on the 5th of March.
So they are only low down on the curve, but it will be interesting to see if their cases explode like the other European countries.
meanwhile in Germany, not one mask in sight.
I’m using the disposable gloves. I have about 300 pairs, which should be enough to see me through.
I put on fresh gloves while in the car, run my errand and then, when I get back to the car, I remove my mask, then my gloves (pulled inside out, of course) before getting out my keys or opening the car door. Otherwise, I’d possibly be contaminating my keys and car door handle.
When I went to see my Doc last week, she discussed viral load as an important factor. The information she is going on is that a low dose of the bug is a big factor in keeping infections at the ‘annoying’ level instead of going to critical level. We had been discussing it here, but I wasn’t seeing it discussed much elsewhere. I was surprised because she brought up viral load.
So her opinion/advice is much as E.M. presents here. She doesn’t think masks will necessarily prevent exposure – maybe yes, maybe no – but they will certainly reduce viral load if exposed.
.
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Oh, a P.S. – Per our discussion on the regular virus thread, my Doc thinks the malaria drug based treatments are the right way to go. I asked her about my tonic water intake as a preventative. She thought the dose was maybe enough (~200 mg/day) but couldn’t say for sure; no data at hand on that.
She also looked for interactions with all the meds I’m taking and gave me a green light. She didn’t recommend I continue long term, i.e. a year or so, and suggested a break after a few months. Didn’t mention zinc, either. She was supportive of the vitamin D & C intake that was on my list of everything I take, particularly the vitamin D.
I like this Doc. She doesn’t seem to mind looking outside the box if she doesn’t see any obvious harm and there is, if not proof, at least a potential upside.
I think I’d rather develop immunity incrementally via repeated exposure to light viral loads.
Simple social distancing could do that by reducing the load transmitted during any given interaction.
I wonder whether that is what is already going on in the background all around the world.
The numbers asymptomatic and/or with mild symptoms seem to be way ahead of those requiring medical assistance.
Looks like the UK cabinet will soon be the only immune leadership group on the planet.
E M
Here is something new to throw into the discussion : https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-31/qantas-baggage-handlers-test-positive-to-coronavirus-in-sa/12107258
Today we found out that 6 baggage handlers at Adelaide airport have tested positive. There are not many flights per day now – 90% reduction in fact ! But we have had Australians flying home on special flights from Italy, France, the UK, the uSA and South America.
And baggage handlers handled their suitcases etc when it was unloaded and sent to the airport carousels for passengers to collect.
So it seems that this virus can survive on such materials through the long flights back from overseas.
In the USA most airlines are still flying so I wonder how much the virus is being spread vai this route of transmission ?
Bill, the same happened at Heathrow aiport about a month ago.
To answer my oen question, it appears that microwaves may well kill COVID19, especially on food as it gets hot.
But it mat actually kill them directly by heating them up, 2 – 5 minutes at 800Watts.
Maybe a way decontaminate masks and gloves very quickly?
Thern again, maybe not.
https://cleaning.lovetoknow.com/how-kill-household-germs/do-microwaves-kill-germs-like-viruses-bacteria
To all of the above we can add:
Don’t do stupid things.
Stay away from stupid people
https://news.yahoo.com/choir-decided-ahead-rehearsal-now-023414705.html
Stephen Wilde: “I think I’d rather develop immunity incrementally via repeated exposure to light viral loads.
Simple social distancing could do that by reducing the load transmitted during any given interaction.
I wonder whether that is what is already going on in the background all around the world.”
Interesting question, Stephen.
I’m certain way more people have been exposed to the Wuhan Flu than are represented in any available accountings. My follow on question is, given we’re not testing unless someone is really sick (or rich or a ‘Somebody’), how do we know how many have had the reportedly extremely mild case and are not counted anywhere? How is the herd progressing?
Strain info that got under my radar a few days ago.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/27/scientists-track-coronavirus-strains-mutation/5080571002/
https://nextstrain.org/ncov
To add to the confusion. Doh!
https://www.foxnews.com/media/surgeon-general-explains-masks-public-coronavirus
Yet again worldometer data does not match their own charts and other sources.
Spain actual 832 new deaths, Chart shows 913, but their value on the front page shows 553.
Soemone is not updating the site correctly, perhaps they will put it right later.
ossqss says: 31 March 2020 at 3:23 pm
They really don’t want the public wearing them, what the hell is going on.
It goes against everything Asia have learnt from SARS, MERS and COVID19.
ossqss says: 31 March 2020 at 3:23 pm
They really do not want us wearing masks, just what is going on?
They have learnt nothing from the Asians who went through SARS, MERS & COVID19.
Sorry about the duplicate posts, I thought the use of “hell” might have blocked the first one. LOL
Well all mutations can go either way
However if a mutation goes bad the virus dies with the target. Therefore more destructive mutations will die more rapidly than less destructive mutations.
Perhaps die is the wrong word for a non living thing, but in the context of mutating maybe not.
Therefore the virus evolves to the least destructive. We have many many corona viruses almost all of them mild. This will pass.
The more the virus mutates the less virulent it becomes. We have many many carona viruses most of them benign. This too will pass.
A last word. I dont like catching seasonal flu. I dont like catching a cold. None of them are pleasant. I hate getting sick. I havent been viraly sick for twenty years or there abouts because I practice the same precautions as outlined by EM all of the time. We should all learn from this. Dont go to work sick dont spread your crap. Keep Well everyone.
A C Osborn: “A question for all, does anyone know if Microwaves kill Viruses?”
Microwaves work for cooking because the radio frequency used resonates with water molecules, heating them up. So my first cut answer would be no, since the virus itself isn’t water. But…
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven it is not just water it heats, it is “polar molecules”, electric dipoles.
Now I know better. Is the virus polar? My guess is still that microwaves do not kill the viruses directly.
There is a way to use UV-C to disinfect masks. Used with CPAP machines.
https://www.cpap.com/blog/lumin-cpap-mask-cleaner-review/
https://www.yourcpapstore.ca/product/lumin-uvc-sanitizing-system/
As I am one who has chronic auto-immune disease and am on immune system modifiers, I have been practicing minimizing exposure for years, with the exception of masks. I expect this to mostly be over in a couple of weeks. The exponential phase does *not* last forever. We are rapidly depleting the number of folks who are susceptible. The number of severe cases and deaths will follow that with a delay of about 3 weeks; so I expect that to happen toward the end of April or the early part of May. (I note that the county with the largest number of known cases, to date, has had no deaths *from* the disease. Will that hold? I don’t think so.)
With rapid serological tests coming out, we will know much better where we stand.
To the extent microwaves kill viruses, it would be via denaturing the proteins. Proteins have carbonyl groups in them. In addition, there are some with alcohol groups within them (serine proteases, for instance). Viruses in droplets expelled from people are in water. If freshly deposited, there will still be some water, until the droplets dry. On the other hand, like spores, they would be rather resistant and require the proper conditions for microwaves to do it.
Couple thoughts and questions.
Gloves, why can’t you wash your hands with them on then reuse them?
How about sterilizing things the old fashion way with steam from boiling water, or boiling them?
What does detergent do to viruses in a washing machine? It is not just your face mask that can hold viruses.
What does a dryer to to them?
What about my sanitize cycle on my dishwasher?
FWIW, Here is some stuff that popped up on a quick sanitize search.
https://www.insider.com/what-temperature-kills-germs
https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/how-long-does-coronavirus-live-on-clothes
My kitchen gloves get washed as I use them, bleach washing up liquid, fairy where I come from, I wash them as I go
FWIW
“Model Projects When the Coronavirus Will Peak in Each State”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/31/model-projects-when-the-coronavirus-will-peak-in-each-state/
BUT
“Futile Fussings – a history of graphical failure from cattle to #coronavirus”
Em Smith
Are you floating a conspiracy theory here? The Chinese scoured the world to gather together medical items. They sent them back to china. The Chinese then sent defectives ones to other countries needing. them , often back to the countries they had bought them from originally, but they are now defective. All sounds deliberate so are you suggesting this was a manufactured virus and the subsequent actions were designed to ensure the West would not be able to protect itself?
“Monkey With Typewriter Produces Reasonable Alternative To Green New Deal”
https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/127871-new-joke-thread-30/page/64/?tab=comments#comment-1407572
@Tonyb:
I’m not advancing any theory. Just stating the facts. There are many possibilities and many possible motivations. Some just benign greed / self first; then during restart of production with worker shortages, doing a lousy job and skipping Q.A. At the other end, malicious intent start to end. In between, and IMHO most likely, what started as benign “get emergency supplies” has turned into “never let a disaster go to waste”.
@Ossqss:
For my (rubber) garden gloves or kitchen gloves, I’d just wash them. For my latex lab gloves, half the time they tear in the removal… were they stronger (nitrile?) and held together, I’d wash them if low on stock.
But with three boxes (1 latex 2 something else) for 2 people, that’s about 150 gloves each, for what I hope is no more than 4 trips out of the house until this is over. So no reason to go for conservation / reuse yet. Normally I use these when working on greasy cars & equipment, doing paint & yard sprays, and when grooming the dogs / application of flea medicine; so fortunately had them around. Similarly, 20 surgical masks as the dogs make me sneeze when grooming :-)
May I suggest examining ECGC of Green Tea, or Quercetin extract in the context of ionophore activity. These items somewhat mimic quinine family chemical compound’s ability to increase Zinc’s access to cellular functions, so as to inhibit viral RNA replication
Wait, what?
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us70008jr5/executive
E M I see you have an infectious meme carrier trying to propagate it’s dangerous ideas on your blog back on your 6th of February Corona virus post….
Then on the 6th of Feb. there were hardly any infections and no dead in the USA.
Now on the 1/4/20120 ( April Fool’s Day ) there are 3857 dead and 187,9000 infected…
Maybe it is this fool’s idea of an April fool’s day joke !
Dr. VanWingen above says the virus doesn’t survive microwaves well.
I have a cloth mask for yard mowing. I’ve been using it for outings. When I get it home, both sides get sprayed with Lysol, then I wash my hands.
New York alone accounts for close to 1/2 the total of all US deaths. Their mass transit system where a large % of the population is pretty much forced to ride high density subway cars is likely a major reason.
.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/US/
.
Toss out New York as an outlier and the US death total curve flattens out considerably.
.
New York’s issues are not representative of the US as a whole. Basing policy on New York for the entire nation is insane.
@Jim2, just sayin, if the microwave don’t kill it, it could be like landing probes on asteroids and changing a vector, ever so slightly. Oh wait, we did that already ;-)
Generally, via looking at 170k cases 14 days ago, and we may make a million globally tomorrow, I hope we start seeing the surfable wave soon.
Hope for the pills soon. I see 4 or 5 that may show up. JMHO
@ED F, perhaps it shows the efficiency potential, for all the wrong reasons, of that Agenda 21/30 stuff. Stack’em and pack’em living.
I Pass》
Bill in Oz says, 1 April 2020 at 1:08 am:
“E M I see you have an infectious meme carrier […] on your 6th of February Corona virus post….”
I saw that, Bill, and thought, “What the ?!?? Feb 6th? That thread is l-o-n-g dead.” Hard to say why anyone would post on that thread. Wound up there through an old bookmark, maybe?
Yeah, possibly a spam bot. They tend to hit just a bit old posts. I’m waiting to see if it’s got further signsl, or not.
He has a linked site.
Mr Forbes still does not get it does he?
New York is what every major city can become if the virus takes hold, which is why you introduce controls before it does and not after.
If the malaria drug works because it increases cell PH, why wouldn’t other proton pump inhibiter drugs also work. Just guessing.
AND… New York is still only at the beginning. It has not yet exceeded hospital capacity with CFR jumping to about 10%.
As I’ve said before: This is a math test. Those who understand exponentials will get it, and those who don’t will complain (and potentially go out, like to Mardi Gras , Spring Break, work… Get the disease and die or give it to granny and kill people).
I’d now also add that folks who can project a graph on the time axis vs those limited to the present moment can see the assault comming. Those who can’t are in the “What, me worry?” cohort bleating about flu deaths.
As I understand it, chloroquine alkalinizes particular organelles inside the cell, not the whole cell. Not just a proton pump function.
@EM: Looks like the Surgeon General has asked for the CDC to reconsider the use of masks by everyone going out. Perhaps he reads your column :-)
Steven, if that is true it is just after him saying that they are useless as protection.
You couldn’t make it up.
Steven Fraser: “Looks like the Surgeon General has asked for the CDC to reconsider the use of masks by everyone going out.”
Gonna be a lot of homemade masks out there. They aren’t available in stores right now or the foreseeable future.
It could be fun, though. No doubt those of a creative bent will start drawing moustaches, vampire fangs, luscious lips, and who knows what on the front of their masks.
I think I’d draw a simple mouth with a word balloon, “#$@!&! virus!”
@Steven Fraser:
Maybe ;-)
But more likely: what with several countries, including Czech Republic & IIRC Austria, requiring it under penalty, the social pressure may be getting to them. But more likely also, IMHO, is that what with the new mask sterilizer approval and huge increase in production, they think the quantities are large enough now to dribble some out to the public. Especially since we still have (no surprise) exponential growth.
I get zinc in my daily multivitamin, but not enough to make a difference against the Wuhu Flu.
I’ve been drinking the tonic water, but it’s the tonic water allowing the zinc to permeate the cells that makes it all work.
Zinc tablets seem to be sold out everywhere. Word gets around, it seems. People are stuck at home with nothing to do but look into what all the fuss is about. Tonic water availability is spotty, but zinc is gone from the shelves.
I finally found an interesting combo supplement with zinc that’s fits perfectly with what we’ve discussed here regarding vitamins over the past year [H.R. fetches bottle]
D3 15mcg
Calcium 1,000 mg
Magnesium 400 mg
Zinc 25 mg
This is a great addition to my multivitamin because it bumps up the ingredients where the multi is just OK on the amount. I was really pleased to see calcium in there because about the only dairy I get is when I put sour cream on something ;o)
Looks like I’m getting my zinc with a bonus.
And the name of that mix w/ zinc is???
Interesting look at why Czech Rep. has few cases while Spain & Germany are tanking.
Basically the Czech govt didn’t trust communism, having lived under it, and took action early. Spain embraced China. Also notes that China is calling medical supplies sent to Europe “aid” when it is really “sales” and with faulty product at that.
Courtesy of Maue.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3550308
I have not read over here for a while (Putting up fence) but I wanted to toss this info out in case you have not seen it.
Test for ANTIBODIES to determine if you already had the virus and are now immune.
https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/health/coronavirus/antibody-testing-could-offer-communitywide-snapshot-of-virus-exposure/article_7b6d43dd-2ff1-59c7-bb09-1db62125ae13.html
…..
I agree that the advice by the CDC about masks is absolute CRAP. AND there are enough studies out there to prove it. (Makes you wonder WHO they are actually working for…) You can use a cowboy bandanna folded in a triangle and then fold the wide part down again so you have 4 thicknesses. It can then be popped into the washing machine to wash for 14 min. in hot water, soap and Clorox.
I had to go out (Hubby insisted on getting milk) I went just as the store opened. Hubby remains IN THE VEHICLE. I used gloves and bandanna. I had a kit with soapy water that he sprays on my hands out the window after I remove and dispose of gloves. Then he sprays my hands with rinse water. Dry on paper towel, apply hand sanitizer and rub. Only then do I get in the vehicle.
OH, and I had a Zicam under my tongue the whole time. I could taste the darn thing for the rest of the day too.
Shoes go in a clean kitty litter box with water and Clorox solution and stay on the porch in the sun.
Clothes & bandanna goes in the washing machine that is set-up and waiting. I designed the house so the laundry with a shower is right off the side porch. Boy am I glad I did!
Vehicle gets the windows rolled up and sits for at least a week unused. It is black and heats up very nicely. As in you will burn your hand if you do not wear gloves in the summer.
….
I make homemade lemonade and found Realemon has a handy restrictor in the top of the bottle. It fits soda bottles so I use a small soda bottle for my soapy water and the 48 fluid oz big Realemon bottle for rinse water. I carry this for hand washing just as a matter of course since we are out with our animals all the time with no access to running water.
….
One of the ladies did come down with the Chinese Corona Crud. She had a relapse, has just tested positive and is going on hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. She had a devil of a time getting the prescription filled. She also lost two friends to the crud and thinks she survived due to all the great health information all of us have gathered.
Seems we aren’t the only ones who are not buying the gift wrapped bovine feces they are trying to sell.
https://twitter.com/NoTrueScotist/status/1245281508115374080
I HATE being treated like a two year old!
I just grit and bridle a lot at that “doesn’t work for you but only for me” crap they spew all the time.
Typical Elite double talk, You should not use these things to protect yourself.
We need these things to protect us and they might be in short supply so they must be conserved.
Note on Vitamin Zinc; you might try Health Food stores if your big box store is out…pg
More exploring by Willis
“Do Lockdowns Work??”
Take home message –
“WEAR A MASK”
E.M.: “And the name of that mix w/ zinc is???”
The brand is “Nature’s Bounty”.
The label just says in large print, one item on a line
Calcium
Magnesium
Zinc
and in smaller print underneath “With Vitamin D3”
The company is marketing it as “May Reduce the risk of osteoporosis.” You know how that goes with OTC supplements; no firm claims allowed.
It was $5.99 for 100 coated caplets BUT it was also on a BOGO so I got two bottles for a total of 200.
They recommend 3 pills a day, which I suppose is reasonable for it’s intended use of building up the bones. Since I’m using it primarily for the zinc, I’ll be taking only one or two per day.
I’ll still be keeping my eyes peeled for plain ol’ zinc supplements. I can’t complain about this find, though.
@Another Ian :
1: Willis’ conclusion regarding masks is right ! Unfortunately our Australian government still recommends that we NOT wear them
2 : Willis does not include any data from Australia, New Zealand, China, Taiwan, Singapore and S Korea in his post. Only Japan gets a mention on his charts.
My conclusion is that he has tailored his data to suit his preconceived ideological conclusions ….
NOT very Clever !
Hi, I have been reading here since January thanks to Gail Combs. Thank you for all of the information you and the other commenters have posted. Very helpful. Yes, our family has been wearing masks since the first case was confirmed in our state. I see many not listening to President Trump (had has talked about covering our faces in public multiple times), not following his recommendations and not taking this seriously. Sad. Thank you for all of the info that has helped us be prepared and informed.
Here’s a question for the local brain trust.
My understanding is that I am at high risk of a very bad outcome from this virus because I have Type II diabetes and taking medication for it.
If I understood correctly, I’m at high risk because the meds I take that unlock my cells to receive and use insulin also are unlocking my cells to the virus.
I have also learned that quinine and its more modern and effective derivatives, unlocks cells so they can take in the zinc which effectively kills or stymies the virus.
So my question is, given that I’m taking zinc supplements, do I really need to be drinking the tonic water, too? Perhaps Type II diabetics on meds only need to add a zinc supplement.
@H. R.
There isn’t enough solid data to say either way. I do note that too many of the studies touted report p-values. This is 2020 and not 1920. P-values have issues, partly due to the fallacy of the false dichotomy they are based upon. Still, it doesn’t hurt to do good testing/perform well designed experiments. Just don’t make vast conclusions from half-vast data. Prof. Atwood, ca 1975.
As far as I know, diabetics who travel to malaria endemic areas still take the plaquenil or similar medications as prophylaxis. In your situation, the tonic water may help; as long as the dose isn’t too high. Yeah, I know, easier said than done.
@H.R.:
IMHO, diabetic or not, the best strategy is avoidance coupled with good nutritional status (with emphasis on high vit C & D & E levels + zinc).
IFF possible, I’d try a keto diet for diabetic status improvement (many claims of success), though we’ve dropped the keto as beans & rice store better than chicken…
The tonic water will be some help, but do the hot bath, cold plunge too.
After all that, hang your hope on medical treatments soon…
Thanks, E.M. & cd.
@E.M.- My A1C was up a bit (6.3 from 6.1 in the Fall) from eating out a lot in Florida. My blood glucose readings are headed down now that I am back and cooking again. So diabetes management is going along decently enough. I expect to get A1C below 5 at my next check.
I was just thinking about the biology of how my cells are locking things out and quinine and Metformin unlock cells to let things in. I’m already doing the C, D, E, + zinc.
cd’s response hints that there must be some difference in how Metformin affects cells vs. quinine derivatives.
@cd, who wrote in part:
“As far as I know, diabetics who travel to malaria endemic areas still take the plaquenil or similar medications as prophylaxis. In your situation, the tonic water may help; as long as the dose isn’t too high. Yeah, I know, easier said than done.”
Good point about diabetics still taking a malaria prophylaxis when traveling. I mentioned somewhere earlier that my Doc checked dose and drug interactions for me during my visit and thought I wouldn’t run into any problems, though she too warned me to stop after a few months to protect my vision.
It seems my 2 liters/day of tonic water (83 mg of quinine/liter) adds up to just shy of the dosage for malaria prevention, which is a high dose (double? triple?) once and then a weekly dose of about 1 gram.
I’m just looking to do things that will make a case of Wuhan Flu milder for me than a pretty much guaranteed bad outcome if I did nothing.
P.S. I’m doing mask and gloves when out, except when fishing. Only a rare few others have been out fishing in the cloudy, mid-40s (F) weather we are having, so I am definitely socially isolated yet still out and about.
P.P.S. I’ve been catching fish on the surface with a rubber spider. No one thinks it’s possible, which is why I have the lake mostly to myself :o) The few people I’ve seen that have shown up to throw a line have either used live bait, which the fish find too large to eat at current water temperatures, or they are using lures which are fished too fast for the cold, slow fish.
I’ve only been skunked once since I’ve been home. Best day was 11 fish. Most days, 3-5 fish. Who says ‘lockdown’ can’t be enjoyable?
P.P.P.S. I leave the cell phone at home in case we are being tracked; not sure if they are yet in my locale. As far as Big Brother is concerned, I’m sheltering in place at home ;o)
E.M. I just opened my new bottle of Spring Valley
Vit D3 — 600 IU
Calcium — 1,000 mg
Magmesium — 400 mg
Zinc — 15 mg ☹️
OK, Gail. Here’s a comparison of what the two makers think is the best combo for osteoporosis.
Nature’s Bounty
D3 15mcg
Calcium 1,000 mg
Magnesium 400 mg
Zinc 25 mg
Spring Valley
Vit D3 — 600 IU
Calcium — 1,000 mg
Magmesium — 400 mg
Zinc — 15 mg
No difference in the calcium or magnesium. Slight difference in opinion on the D3 and zinc.
Did you happen to note the recommended dose?
Nature’s Bounty was 3/day. My guess is that since a lot gets flushed out, you keep it in your system by taking one tab morning, noon, and evening.
Was it inexpensive?
Even if I didn’t get the BOGO, and I was taking their recommended dose of 3 tabs/day, that’s still only $5.99 for a month’s supply of 100. That’s about 18¢ per day. Pretty darn cheap.
The Spring Valley is also 3X a day.
I am not sure of the price since I just went to Walmart in Jan/Feb. and grabbed tons of Vit C, multi Vit and other stuff so I had a 4 -6 month supply. I figured with China closing down, all the OTC medical stuff made in China would be scarce for quite a while.
I went scrounging in my rcpt box and found it:
250 tablets Ca, Mg, Zn for $5.94
250 tabs D3 125 mcg (5,000IU) — $11.88
250 tabs vit C 1000 mg — $8.88 I think that was a double pkg
All were Spring Valley
Wow! Great price, Gail. Thanks for having a look.
Oh, and it’s the same 3X per day to keep it in your system for both brands. It’s been discussed here before, but other than vitamin C, I really wasn’t thinking about which supplements flush out quickly vs which stick around.
Seeing those 3X per day now has me looking at taking it at least a morning and evening tab, and maybe I’ll just go ahead with the 3X, since I don’t get much in the way of calcium for my bones.
Thanks again for checking.
H.R., I saw this at the other site and thought of you.
The site owner thinks he got the Chinese Corona Crud via an Iranian connection. He was a smoker and quit. He is also retired. He has been complaining that even after ~ 2 months his lungs are not going back to normal function. He lives at high elevations so it is more noticeable.
He decided to add ZINC AND QUININE to the vitamin C & D3 et al.
He says:
“….In addition to all the things I’ve read and understood, I’ve been trying to understand my own case, and my deterioration of lung function.
I can’t get into a study because my initial infection was in January, and I have no fever, and have not for a long time, so theoretically I’m “cured”, but I’m not. My doctor won’t do anything useful or contrary to insurance company policies, so I’m basically SCREWED.
Operating on the assumption that AIDS-LIKE PERSISTENCE OF THE VIRUS is at the origin of my problem, I decided to SELF-TREAT WITH ZINC AND QUININE.
It’s WORKING. My breathing is back to normal. In just HOURS. Obviously I’m just starting this, and quinine is a shitty old antimalarial, but the relief was almost immediate.
QUININE. FREAKING QUININE. It was the original zinc ionophore antimalarial. And even at piss-poor doses, it WORKS. (No side effects, either, because it’s not freaking fish-tank cleaner!)…”
He had been freaking because after ~two months and no real improvement he figured his lungs were permanently damaged.
Gail – I appreciate that encouraging report on quinine +zinc. That’s encouraging news. I’m guessing the fellow in the story was probably getting his quinine from tonic water too, since he mentioned he wasn’t getting a full dose. Ya gotta drink a lot of tonic water!
I am hoping that they get the antibody test out where it’s widely available. I’d like to know if I’ve been exposed and if my tonic water + zinc worked.
We had as of Tuesday, I think, 20 cases in our county and four deaths. Our county is the burbs to the Major City to the South, so it’s affluent. There were a lot of national and international travelers in our county even into the first week of March.
I find it hard to believe that I won’t get or haven’t already had some exposure to the virus. I have made a few trips to the store for things I had depleted before going to Florida, such as freezer meats. (Who wants a freezer full of stuff to go bad during an electrical outage while away for 3 months?) Oh, and I also had to get my 86 year-old mother-in-law stocked up. She is definitely high risk.
Anyhow, like the guy in the article, I would like to know for sure that quinine + zinc is working against the Wuhan virus. That’s not going to happen until they get the antibody tests pushed out.
I am now the proud owner of two custom fitted home-made sewn cloth masks. They are very comfortable. They increase the relative humidity of the air I breath, which I find very pleasant at this time of year. I could wear them inside the house just for that. And humidity is one of the things suggested to protect from virus infections.
H.R. Yes, I think he used tonic water.
“…Anyway, you heard it here first. Even freaking Zinc and Quinine work.
Bottoms up!”
Also this came up later from one of the Ladies:
This is another source for quinine. There are several brands:
https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/hyland's-leg-cramps-caplets/ID=prod6197264-product
It took a couple of weeks to get here, but got my Amazon order of Cinchona bark capsules.
@YMMV – “Who was that masked man?”
“I don’t know, but he left this silver bullet.” ;o)
@Gail – I noticed it’s sold out in that link. It seems people are catching on to quinine.
jim2, below our comments, mentioned it took a couple of weeks to get Chinchona, so that’s probably becoming scarce, too.
@jim2 – Is there any indication how much quinine is in each capsule?
I get 83 mg per liter of tonic water, and near as I can tell, about 200 mg per day is a useful amount. One or two capsules would sure be a heck of a lot better than the 2 or three 1 liter bottles of tonic water I’m drinking per day.
@H.R. that much fluids is great for the system 😜
Just a little addendum, which has a little research behind it. Tea Tree, Eucalyptus and Lemon Balm have been shown effective anti-viral agents. NOT TO BE CONSUMED! I run a tea candle powered aroma therapy diffuser during the day and add some others oils to make the room smell pleasant. I pour a few drops on my home-made mask the few times I go out. They are potent smells. I assume the volatile fractions interfere with the virus’s lipid delivery envelope. Dr. Oz suggests that the majority of receptors for the virus are at the tip of the nose. If a bit of oil on the mask mops up the few stray virus particles, or even if it reduces the viral load, it may be useful.
This is the source of my research : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5206475/
combined with a memory that essential oils were being used in British Hospitals to combat microbial infection.
I would be interested what others had to say.
@HR, you might be over doing the Quinine water. 250mg per day with zinc is to treat the virus infection, 250mg per week is the preventative dose, the military considers the life time safe dose is 400grams, so there must be some accumulative effect…pg
@P.G.: Or they just figured if you were in a tropical post / war that long you needed to be brought home ;-)
250 mg/ week is about a gram / month. 400 months /12 mo/yr is 33, so call it 30 years…ofsetting the two errors.
@Andy Saurus:
Interesting idea.. I think I’ll look into that a bit…
Plants have to fight off viruses too, so have evolved a variety of antifungal compounds. I’d not be surprised to find some plant oils disrupted lipoprotein layers or even interfered with binding sites.
@pg – Thanks. That’s great! 250 mg per week means 3 bottles, or about 1 bottle every other day.
I got my starting dose reference from Chloroquine dose recommendations in the online Rx guide for physicians.
However, I’ll have to get back to having another look online about just plain quinine dosage. By now, there should be enough others slurping down tonic water who have talked with their doctors and may have received some guidance. Should be a few posts online.
My Dr. wasn’t alarmed by the dosage. She was concerned about me taking in quinine long term. It messes up the eyes and mine are already messed up.
Thanks again. I’ll look again with your info as an upper bound.
Hmmm… looks like some of them directly inactivate free virus particles. Eucalyptus incense anyone? Maybe Pinesol was onto something…
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ptr.2955
So on the mask and in the air, good.
Now if they would just make something to hang up… maybe shaped like a plastic green Christmas tree… ;-)
@HR – there is no indication of the quinine content. I’m taking one capsule per day, FWIW. It’s a bit of a shot in the dark, but better than nothing, IMO.
So lemme see here, 8oz tonic water, 1 oz vodka or whatever, 3oz orange or any other juice and we have medicine with a kicker? ; -)
Prescription of at least 2 a day!
@Ossqss:
You Betcha!
@Pinesol:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19692148
Go Pinesol, go…
I think I need to check our stock… wonder if infection rates will be lower in pine tree country…
We were able to get Ivermectin at Tractor Supply.
Note that Tea Tree Oil is toxic to cats. Cat lovers, beware. (Dogs, rejoice…)
https://healthfully.com/366535-tea-tree-oil-for-viral-infections.html
So, looks real. The spouse buys tea tree oil infused soap, so guess I’ve been using it unawares…
@jim2 – Yeah, it’s hard to prove you didn’t get WuFlu because of the quinine and zinc.
There are enough reports out there that strongly, strongly indicate that if administered early on, it’s a cure.
We know it prevents malaria. It’s reasonable to expect it to knock out an early load of the virus. So… you get WuFlu. Your quinine +zinc kicks in and starts knocking it out. Meanwhile, you’re starting to produce antibodies that will help finish the job and provide immunization for the future.
I’d say you’re not wrong to take it and it’s likely w-a-a-y better than nothing.
If we get those antibody tests out to everyone, then people who have been taking quinine +zinc and test positive will know for sure that it worked.
FWIW, I have a stock of 1/2 dozen L bottles of tonic water. I tend to drink one brfore going out, then two upon retutn home. Then none until the next trip out. Whenever my next shopping run happens, I’ll get more (and Pinesol and…)
@Ossqss – When I bought my first batch of tonic water, I had twenty-one bottles at the register. I didn’t want to be running to the store every few days for tonic water, and they might be out.
The checker hollered to someone to see if they were quantity limited. “Nope. Not those.”
So I casually mentioned my next stop would be the liquor store, where I was going to pick up a case of gin.
They could have spotted the lie if they had noticed I didn’t have any limes in the basket ;o)
P.S. The way I use gin is to get the bottle out, pour two shots into a shaker with ice. Pick up the dry vermouth bottle… nah… maybe next time… set it back down and just shake what I already have in the cocktail shaker.
Strain it into a martini glass and plop in one olive. Three olives and I’m burping olives all night. However, in a strange twist of biology, physiology, and chemistry, if I have three olives, one at a time in three martinis, I don’t burp olives all night. It’s a godsend, I tell ya!
The way I use gin is to pour 2 fingers in a 16 oz. glass, drop in 2 ice cubes, fill it with tonic, look at the citus fruit sitting on the counter, say “nah…”, grab the glass and just walk away…